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Tara Ariano

S04.E11: Krieg Nicht Lieb

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It was Dar Adal.

I feel a little cheated by this episode. An hour of Quinn plotting an assassination that he aborts last minute to save Carrie. What was the point story wise?

That's two opportunities to kill Haqquani that the CIA has passed on to save a single one of their own people.

Edited by VioletMarx
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Quinn pissed me off this episode, which is unusual as I love the character and the way Rupert Friend plays him. But, when he was yelling at Carrie that he listened to her about Haqqani and now many of his friends are dead, my thought was, "and who aborted Carrie's order to have the drone shoot Haqqani when they had the chance?" What made it worse was when he used the drone pictures of Haqqani shooting Ayan and gave the woman the video. Did he forget that he was the one who stopped Carrie's order? So, Quinn, if you're going to blame Carrie for the deaths of your comrades, you should first take a look in the mirror. Or else, just put the blame where it belongs - on Haqqani. 

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After finding out where Haqqani was hiding out, instead of that elaborate bomb plan that went nowhere, why couldn't they just drone him? No one left to do that?

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I criticised last week's episode as a collection of random events. This was a more cohesive effort. It helps to make Quinn the centre of the action. But the biggest surprise for me wasn't Dar Adal's presence with Haqqani in the car, it was the fact that Quinn had a far better woman all along. So why the hell are you pining for Carrie, Quinn? That German woman seems to know him very well, trusts him and is all round more suitable for him.

 

But, when he was yelling at Carrie that he listened to her about Haqqani and now many of his friends are dead, my thought was, "and who aborted Carrie's order to have the drone shoot Haqqani when they had the chance?" 

 

But he's consistent, he aborted his mission because of Carrie's presence.

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I'm not yet convinced that Dar Adal has decided to abandon his loyalty to the U.S.

 

I'm guessing he has some sort of explanation for being in Haqqani's entourage. It may not necessarily be a good one...but I'm not ready to assume he entirely supports Haqqani's agenda.

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I'm pretty sure Adal is operating as the best last resort for the US, as he always has.  Through the ISI, he has brokered some agreement with Haqqani. 

 

That may be what Khan was referring to when he told Carrie, "It was a coup...Do you think I want to to take my orders from them any more than you do?"  

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Just when I thought Duck was the biggest dick on the planet... a new contender emerges.  Dar Adal is Homeland's dick of the week. 

I think he is Up To Something, which makes me think his presence in that car is very good news. Sketchy, sordid black ops news, but good news nonetheless.

Ruth- Dar Adal is a top secret Black Ops guy. He is usually reserved to do the very dirty work. He used to be Quinn's boss, before Carrie poached him.

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Obviously, it's Dar Adal's involvement that Lockhart was suspecting, when he asked Carrie if she knew if anything was going on that he should know about, with the Pakistanis. He said, "There have been meetings at the White House, the national security council. Something's up."   

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Just when I thought Duck was the biggest dick on the planet... a new contender emerges.  Dar Adal is Homeland's dick of the week.

I was going to say Carrie. I'm not one of those viewers who hates this or that character--until now.

Please tell me who Dar Adal is?

Saul's old crony from the CIA and previous seasons.

So if Quinn had blown up Haqqani, or if Carrie had shot him, then what? Some other big bad takes over.

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When I started watching this show (in S1), I asked Mr. EB if he was interested in watching. He said no but for some reason, part of the way through this season he started watching with me. He knows nothing about the first three seasons so his response to the very end of this episode was: "What's Salieri doing with Haqqani?"

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Saul's old crony from the CIA and previous seasons.

 

I wouldn't call Saul and Adal cronies: Familiar antagonists with different principles and agendas within the same organization, for the most part. Except when the CIA itself was being presumed under threat in season 3.  I see Adal as Nasneem to Khan's Saul.  

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...I see Adal as Nasneem to Khan's Saul....

Which is even more reason why Quinn should've blown up the car. He could've taken out Adal, Haqqani, and frickin' bad news bear Carrie. </end rant>
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If I were Carrie, the primary concern on my mind would be who to do first:  hot Pakistani Khan or hot CIA Quinn.  Maybe Khan first, as she may not be in Pakistan much longer.  Or maybe Quinn, as he may not be alive much longer.  Oh, the U.S. station is decimated and her dad died and she's rediscovered affection for her baby?  Whatever.  Priorities.

 

This episode did succeed in making me clap my hands to my head and scream WHAT THE F--K!? when Dar Adal was in the car with Terrorist Shithead.  Good job, show.

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Wow at Dal being in the car. Traitor!

I'm really hoping not, cuz if he is he has the shittiest tradecraft of all time.  Appearing in public with the Justin Bieber of Terrorists?  Sure to get seen and photographed?  I'd say 'inconceivable!' but this is the same show that had Carrie drop her 'disguise' in front of a hostile crowd of folks sure to recognize her so what do I know.  

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I'm pretty sure Adal is operating as the best last resort for the US, as he always has.  Through the ISI, he has brokered some agreement with Haqqani. 

 

That may be what Khan was referring to when he told Carrie, "It was a coup...Do you think I want to to take my orders from them any more than you do?"  

 

I'm just not sure I understand what kind of deal could be brokered re: Haqqani - unless it's a matter of the ISI saying something like, "Listen, Americans, we want to maintain relations with you, so we'll let you kill Haqqani."

 

But if that's the case, it just raises even more questions. Is ancient Dar Adal going to be assassinating Haqqani himself? And why would Haqqani be stupid enough to let Dar into his entourage?

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I suspect that the ISI has, for a price, arranged for Haqqani to be turned over to the US, which has agreed to provide him with life-saving medical treatment in exchange for his intelligence.

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When I started watching this show (in S1), I asked Mr. EB if he was interested in watching. He said no but for some reason, part of the way through this season he started watching with me. He knows nothing about the first three seasons so his response to the very end of this episode was: "What's Salieri doing with Haqqani?"

It was on PBS last night!

Sad about Carrie's dad. The actor passed away.

Quinn is cute in his little cap with just the right amount of scruff.

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I don't think Dar Aral is a traitor. I think there are some deep diplomatic/war deals being made. The Taliban terrorist isn't stupid. He has a boatload of very valuable information. He wants resources to prop up his regime. He can't really wage war against the US but he can consolidate his own power locally. The US will pay get that info back. And to find out what the he'll is happening in Pakistan's government.

I did love Quinn's plot however. And his ruthlessness. He would have killed students along with police. Cold.

Carrie's hair actually served a purpose for once!

Also I think Quinn is over Carrie. Maybe last season he had a flicker, but I don't think he has some smoldering thing for her. I get a friendship vibe not sex. And like Max he is frustrated with her .

I can understand that Carrie would want to see her baby after the news of her father. Danes played hearing that news so well. The blackness and delayed reaction. One more loss. Loss after loss. Of course she would want to see her daughter. And her made her fear for Quinn feel more authentic to me. She can't handle one more loss. Brody, Sandy, Fara, the student, her father...too many.

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My innner Lil' Jon came out at the end of this episode. "WHAT?!?!? WHAT?!?!? Hokaaaay!"

 

Big continuity glitch: Carrie takes her leather jacket off in the SUV. She gets out and is still wearing it. A shot later she's not wearing it anymore. I'm assuming she didn't just abandon it in a Pakistani bazaar so someone done screwed up.

 

Quinn's old girlfriend is German? I thought her accent was more UK or Aussie. She gets line of the episode: "Tell him to go fuck himself. He'll know why!"

 

I loved Max giving Carrie the most awkward hug of all time and her just going with it because grief.

 

Why did Quinn need to recruit Kiran? Just so she would upload the video and start some shit? I thought he was going to ask her to deliver the bomb and I thought she was going to get caught along the way.

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Obviously, it's Dar Adal's involvement that Lockhart was suspecting, when he asked Carrie if she knew if anything was going on that he should know about, with the Pakistanis. He said, "There have been meetings at the White House, the national security council. Something's up."

I don't think it's obvious. Carrie made a point of saying that Quinn's German contact works with NATO in some capacity, so when Lockhart said there was buzz about some sort of plot, I think it was about Quinn's bomb plans and not whatever Dar Adal is up to.

I know the CIA has a history of getting into bed with unsavory individuals, but I doubt they would make a deal with Haqqani, a terrorist who had just staged a brutal attack with numerous fatalities on a U.S. embassy. It would be almost like trying to work with Bin Laden. I'd like to think that the U.S. has some standards, but I'll probably regret saying that. I don't have a gut feeling about whether Dar Adal's involvement is traitorous or not. He's always been a sketchy guy, so this story line could go either way.

Carrie was an idiot for thinking a mere two security guys could capture Quinn. He's Peter Fucking Quinn and it will take more than that to bring him in!

I think the Pakistani general's days are numbered, which is unfortunate because he's so damn adorable.

Edited by KittyS
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Also I think Quinn is over Carrie. Maybe last season he had a flicker, but I don't think he has some smoldering thing for her. I get a friendship vibe not sex. And like Max he is frustrated with her .

 

Maybe it's just me, but I had the opposite impression. She begged him to stop more than once because "she couldn't lose him" and he had tears in his eyes afterwards. They both had. It was quite intense, almost a sort of a deja-vu of Carrie and Brody's conversation aka "You will die over there!". If anything, I thought the whole situation cemented that, sooner or later, they will go there with Carrie and Peter.

 

In any case, she was right. He didn't stand a chance to get out of there alive with 300 Pakistani soldiers who were already searching for him. That's why seeing Carrie taking her gun, and suddenly deciding to kill Haqqani by herself, took me completely off-guard. All I could think of was: "ARE YOU SERIOUS? You just convinced Peter to back off!"

 

 

After finding out where Haqqani was hiding out, instead of that elaborate bomb plan that went nowhere, why couldn't they just drone him? No one left to do that?

It is my understanding that the CIA station is being completely dismantled and further operations are not allowed, therefore no support whatsoever for Quinn.

 

I agree that it was a suicide mission. As much as Quinn is cool and one of my favourites and a real badass, even him couldn't survive his attempt to kill Haqqani, with all those Talibans, ISI agents and Pakistani soldiers around.

 

 

Obviously, it's Dar Adal's involvement that Lockhart was suspecting, when he asked Carrie if she knew if anything was going on that he should know about, with the Pakistanis. He said, "There have been meetings at the White House, the national security council. Something's up."

 

Don't know if it's really obvious, but I had the very same thought, otherwise the whole phone call between Carrie and Lockhart doesn't have any sense. I doubt TPTB showed that scene just to let the audience know that they're buddies now and so he called her to give her his condolences.

 

I was really surprised to see Dar-Adal in Haqqani's car (silly me, they even showed him in "Previously on Homeland"), but I'm not ready to think of him as a traitor right away. I feel something's up, too.

Edited by penelope79
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Quinn's old girlfriend is German? I thought her accent was more UK or Aussie. 

The actress is Nina Hoss and she is German and she is wonderful.  Check her out in A Most Wanted Man with Phillip Seymour Hoffman and in Barbara, a German movie.

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After finding out where Haqqani was hiding out, instead of that elaborate bomb plan that went nowhere, why couldn't they just drone him? No one left to do that?

 

 

That was my thought, as well.  It's not like they'd have to worry about the relationship with the government of Pakistan.  Still, running a drone strike in the middle of the capital city might have started a full out war.

 

 

I criticised last week's episode as a collection of random events. This was a more cohesive effort. It helps to make Quinn the centre of the action. But the biggest surprise for me wasn't Dar Adal's presence with Haqqani in the car, it was the fact that Quinn had a far better woman all along. So why the hell are you pining for Carrie, Quinn? That German woman seems to know him very well, trusts him and is all round more suitable for him.

 

The German woman is mentally stable, too.  That should be a big plus.

 

 

I'd say 'inconceivable!' but this is the same show that had Carrie drop her 'disguise' in front of a hostile crowd of folks sure to recognize her so what do I know.

 

It reminded me of the scene in Tehran when Brody was hung.   In neither instance did anyone in the big crowd around her notice a blonde woman above them who is upset.

Edited by terrymct
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I thought it was strange to see F Murray Abraham's name pop up in the opening credits so his appearance should not have surprised me.  I never once belived Dar Adal turned though, but immediately thought Haqqani is selling his own people out for some reason.  It would be terribly depressing for the season to end with the US and Haqqani making a deal after everything he has done.  But I guess that's how politics and diplomacy work.

 

Claire Danes did a great job acting Carrie's grief about her dad's death.  RIP James Rebhorn.

 

I thought this was the season finale and figured it was ending with a shocking reveal until the voice over said next week would be the end.

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I'd say 'inconceivable!' but this is the same show that had Carrie drop her 'disguise' in front of a hostile crowd of folks sure to recognize her so what do I know.

Its much worse. She was in the middle of a bunch of Haqqani supporters - and the Taliban are not exactly known for treating women the same as men. In that, crowd, any woman would have been a target, let alone a woman whose hair color clearly identified her has being a foreigner / infidel.

 

I found it interesting that the show chose to show images of Aayan to trigger Carrie's homicidal rage. Not Fara? Or any of the other 25 people Haqqani killed?

 

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I found it interesting that the show chose to show images of Aayan to trigger Carrie's homicidal rage. Not Fara? Or any of the other 25 people Haqqani killed?

 

She didn't schtupp any of the rest of them, that we know of.

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...Quinn's old girlfriend is German? I thought her accent was more UK or Aussie....

I initially thought British too, but to someone learning English in Europe, it would be Americans who would have an "accent."

...She gets line of the episode: "Tell him to go fuck himself. He'll know why!"...

I loved its double (or triple?) purpose. She got to express her annoyance at him for likely unceremoniously leaving her in the middle of a relationship, while at the same time using the line to half-heartedly attempt to throw off Carrie and also, perhaps, bond with Carrie over Quinn's skittishness as a companion.

...Why did Quinn need to recruit Kiran? Just so she would upload the video and start some shit? I thought he was going to ask her to deliver the bomb and I thought she was going to get caught along the way.

He needed her to start the demonstration that would cover him when he planted the bomb. Since Aayan was her friend/fiancé, other friends would be stirred up on her behalf, and friends of friends, and so on. Also, the demonstration would make it unlikely to investigators that the bomb was planted by an American.

Quinn also warned her when it was time to leave. Ever since he shot a child in a dark house (season 2?) he has been cautious about children and teens becoming collateral damage.

...I found it interesting that the show chose to show images of Aayan to trigger Carrie's homicidal rage. Not Fara? Or any of the other 25 people Haqqani killed?

I didn't see her in a homicidal rage because of the victims so much as her seeing an opportunity to complete the mission. She would have been equally motivated by her promise to Saul that they would "get" Haqqani as she would by the deaths of Haqqani's victims.

About the invisible blonde woman in the middle of Islamic demonstrations: This episode was the first in which I thought the props and costuming folks might have read our comments about how such scenes did more to destroy suspension of disbelief than to make it easier for us to pick out our main characters in the crowd. Quinn actually wore a hat (if not a more traditional turban, more fake facial hair, and some spray-on tan) and Carrie actually made more than one attempt to cover her bond hair completely with the scarf when she got out in the crowd.

I thought she then deliberately removed the head covering so Quinn would see her and not trigger the bomb--which is what happened. He saw her and uttered some expletive while she was calling his phone.

Edited by shapeshifter
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I don't think it's obvious. Carrie made a point of saying that Quinn's German contact works with NATO in some capacity, so when Lockhart said there was buzz about some sort of plot, I think it was about Quinn's bomb plans and not whatever Dar Adal is up to.

I know the CIA has a history of getting into bed with unsavory individuals, but I doubt they would make a deal with Haqqani, a terrorist who had just staged a brutal attack with numerous fatalities on a U.S. embassy. It would be almost like trying to work with Bin Laden. I'd like to think that the U.S. has some standards, but I'll probably regret saying that. I don't have a gut feeling about whether Dar Adal's involvement is traitorous or not. He's always been a sketchy guy, so this story line could go either way.

Carrie was an idiot for thinking a mere two security guys could capture Quinn. He's Peter Fucking Quinn and it will take more than that to bring him in!

I think the Pakistani general's days are numbered, which is unfortunate because he's so damn adorable.

 

I, too, find it pretty much impossible to believe that the U.S. would strike any kind of deal with Haqqani - unless it's a ruse to flush him out and kill him.

 

He just took over an American embassy and slaughtered a bunch of its employees, and bombed a motorcade containing the previous director of the CIA. That makes what happened in the Iran hostage crisis seem minor in comparison. I really hope this show's writers don't ask us to believe that the American government would respond by making a deal with him.

 

I didn't see her in a homicidal rage because of the victims so much as her seeing an opportunity to complete the mission. She would have been equally motivated by her promise to Saul that they would "get" Haqqani as she would by the deaths of Haqqani's victims.

They showed us that Carrie had a flashback to Aayan's death right before she pointed her gun at Haqqani. The implication was that Carrie was in revenge mode, and that his murder of Aayan was the primary reason.

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I found it interesting that the show chose to show images of Aayan to trigger Carrie's homicidal rage. Not Fara? Or any of the other 25 people Haqqani killed?

She didn't schtupp any of the rest of them, that we know of.

 

I think because there was absolutely no reason to kill Aayan at that moment other than to flip Carrie the bird.  He'd done the damage he could do.  He literally was no further threat to Haqqani.  He didn't know anything.  He hadn't chosen to work with the CIA.  It would have been just as easy -- and made a shit-ton more sense because Aayan was his family -- to let Aayan live at that moment.  Even if he just freaking left him there.  

 

So Haqqani killed his own blood relative, specifically to say "Up yours" to the CIA in general and Carrie in particular.  

 

So that's why she was flashing to that.  Aayan was a sacrificial goat who was only in that position because he met Carrie.  It isn't so much that she cared deeply about Aayan or even that she screwed him.  It's that she very much was responsible for his (entirely senseless) death.  

 

I love how everyone in that crowd has such selective blindness though.  There's Carrie, who has just gotten blonder and blonder this season, standing up with her hair-beacon -- and intending it as such -- only to slip back unnoticed and the only other person who picks up on her presence is Kahn.  Interesting.  

 

Now it's actually not a given that Haqqani supporters would just kill a woman in the crowd, there were women among the students with signs too.  But a very clearly Western woman would draw focus.  

Edited by stillshimpy
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I found it interesting that the show chose to show images of Aayan to trigger Carrie's homicidal rage. Not Fara? Or any of the other 25 people Haqqani killed?

 

The point wasn't Aayan, actually. It was just an image in her mind to finally cement her decision to go all in, to sacrifice herself instead of Quinn. She is tired of losing people. She still misses Brody. Fara is dead. Max is hurt and broken and will never forgive her. Saul is gone and also broken. Her father is dead. And Quinn was seconds away from death. She still sympathizes with his motives, after all. She wanted to interrupt him not to save Haqqani, but to save Quinn. She doesn't want to save herself, though.

Probably, on some level, she thought about it already when she asked to see her daughter. But she has only realized the depth of her despair when she saw Haqqani in the flesh.

Edited by FurryFury
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Best scene of the ep: Max doing his socially awkward best to give Carrie a hug after she talked to her sister. Aww, Max is a good egg.

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I just Googled James Rebhorn and discovered that the actor wrote his own obituary last March. It is memorable. Check it out.

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All I can say is Rupert Friend is fantastic.

 

When he was on the phone, the tears in his eyes while she was screaming at him that she couldn't lose him.....I was riveted.  Why doesn't he get nominated for Golden Globes?!?!?

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Another syndication length episode with plenty of time for commercials brought to you by We DGAF About Our Paying Customers.
 

Carrie was an idiot for thinking a mere two security guys could capture Quinn. He's Peter Fucking Quinn and it will take more than that to bring him in!


And Quinn said as much several episodes ago when Quinn objected to picking-up Farad Ghazi. Carrie said they would outnumber Ghazi 4-to-1.  Quinn responded that it wasn't enough and that someone would end up getting injured or killed (the debate was cut short when Fara called and told Carrie that Haqqani was still alive).

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Who is Peter's German Ex Girlfriend From German Embassy in Episode 11..? Name ??? Anyone?

Actress is Nina Hoss.  Character didn't have a name, I don't believe.

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So, is the US government protecting Haqqani? I'm so confused.

 

It was great to see Carrie's face crack when she realized Quinn hasn't been pining her for all this time and he's had a hot ex-girlfriend on the back burner.

 

Does Carrie's baby have Down Syndrome?
 

Carrie made a point of saying that Quinn's German contact works with NATO in some capacity, so when Lockhart said there was buzz about some sort of plot, I think it was about Quinn's bomb plans and not whatever Dar Adal is up to.

 

So would that mean that Quinn's ex ratted him out because otherwise, how would they know?

 

I think the Pakistani general's days are numbered, which is unfortunate because he's so damn adorable.

He is. I hope Carrie gets to hop on that at least once before she leaves. And then I hope either he or Carrie gets to kill Tasneem.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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I found it interesting that the show chose to show images of Aayan to trigger Carrie's homicidal rage. Not Fara? Or any of the other 25 people Haqqani killed?

 

Beautiful post above by stillshimpy on this, about how Haqqani's killing of Aayan was performed for Carrie's benefit, to smite her between the eyes.  I'd only add that Carrie didn't witness any of Haqqani's other killings in real time: she was still trapped in the street when he killed Fara and the other CIA/State department personnel.  

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Just a general question. Why is there the assumption Quinn & Carrie are headed for a relationship? I know Quinn was directly asked during his debriefing which seemed odd to me even then. Last season he chose to wound Carrie rather than kill her. These seem like the actions of a colleague and friend. Can't he value her without sex / romance entering into it? I don't see why the show would or even needs to go there.

Because one of the things I like about Carrie is her unromantic view of sex. I am not sure if we have ever seen her having sex without an agenda on this show. Carrie doesn't do relationships. I am okay with that. If Brody was her one big attempt.to connect on a sincere level I am okay just seeing that one time.

Do we as viewers need romance in a spy show? Of course I like seeing characters fleshed out. Carrie having a sister matters. Fara having a father we saw a few times mattered. Max shattered in the background of scenes is great. That actor has done so much with no screen time.

If Carrie does.find someone I imagine it would.need to be a Zen, mundane man. A caregiver. A military husband.

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Just a general question. Why is there the assumption Quinn & Carrie are headed for a relationship? I know Quinn was directly asked during his debriefing which seemed odd to me even then. Last season he chose to wound Carrie rather than kill her. These seem like the actions of a colleague and friend. Can't he value her without sex / romance entering into it? I don't see why the show would or even needs to go there.

 

 

 

I don't think it NEEDS to go there or know that it will, but I've enjoyed the subtle, shifting, ambiguous Carrie-related tension that emanates from Quinn. It adds a layer to his character and both of their operational decision-making processes, and as long as it doesn't dominate an entire episode or turn into Brody. 2.0, the reBrodying (which I'm fairly confident it won't), I like it. 

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So would that mean that Quinn's ex ratted him out because otherwise, how would they know?

I see it as more of them working together. She gathered the intell on the phones using NATO resources, let Quinn use her car, and possibly provided him with the C-4, perhaps through her NATO contacts who are happy to see someone like Quinn who is willing to sacrifice his own life to take out Haqqani while they get to keep their hands mostly clean. I still contend that this was the secret Lockhart referred to in his conversation with Carrie.

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I, too, find it pretty much impossible to believe that the U.S. would strike any kind of deal with Haqqani - unless it's a ruse to flush him out and kill him.

 

I don't know.  US and NATO combat forces are in action in Afghanistan, territory Haqqani has several times been cited as controlling in part.  He now holds (and surely may have shared with the ISI) information about CIA informants in Pakistan -- in fact, that may be one of Tasneem's motives in allying with him: gaining CIA-held information about Pakistani citizens.  If keeping Haqqani alive can be construed to help Pakistan conduct its internal security and the US/NATO conduct their combat operations, then yes, I think a deal might be struck.  Dar Adal could certainly argue precedent.

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I'm kind of confused with Carrie's conversation with Khan. Maybe I missed something, but how come Carrie is acting like she had just known that the ISI is in bed with Haqqani because of the car and embassy attack? Didn't she already know this when she figured out that the ISI, and by extension Haqqani, already knew where Saul was hiding because of the drones above him? And that's why the were acting so cool while the ambassador was still trying to negotiate with the Pakistan government re: Haqqani's demands.

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