S07.E06: Make-ups and Breakdowns

[CaughtOnTape]

 I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.  She has never condoned what her mother has said, but at the end of the day, Joyce is Kandi's mother and they have love for each other.  Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.  She is not responsible for what Joyce says.  The unique thing about reality tv is that people get to hear what other people really think about them.  If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.  The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.  Family members talk about other people and family members all the time.  Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.  She issue is between Todd, Sharon and Joyce.  Kandi should not be placed in the middle.  She cannot control another grown woman -- especially her mother.

 

People expect her not to condone her mother's behavior.  No one's asking her to admonish her mother like she's 6 years old.  But don't defend her with lame ass excuses either.  While I feel like Sharon was somewhat making Kandi responsible for her behavior....Kandi has no one to blame but herself.  The way she was copping attitude with Sharon was uncool and uncalled for.  Your mother is a bitch, you know it.  Don't defend her.  Just nod and let people know you don't agree with it either.  

 

And I'm sorry but just because Sharon may not have ever heard it does not absolve that rickety old bitch of what she said.  She deserves any vitriol headed her way.  I don't feel sorry for her at all.

 

And it's NOT just Sharon that MJ has said nasty shit about.  She's had something to say about every single person in Kandi's life.  She's abusive, mean, controlling, rude and totally selfish.  So I guess I need to understand why it is Kandi would want someone like that in her life.  Regardless of whether or not the woman is her mother.  Joyce's sacrifices as Kandi grew up do not absolve her of her asshole behavior now.  I may not have children but at least I know that sacrifices go along with the territory....you don't get to treat people however you want to because you feel you're owed that.

Edited December 15, 2014 by CaughtOnTape

[quetzal]

ETA: Reality show cross pollination. That girl, Sandra who was modeling in what's his name's show, was on Naomi Campbell's show, The Face.

 

I thought I saw Lisa Nicole from Married to Medicine at the fashion show, too.

[Talented Tenth]

People expect her not to condone her mother's behavior.  No one's asking her to admonish her mother like she's 6 years old.  But don't defend her with lame ass excuses either.  While I feel like Sharon was somewhat making Kandi responsible for her behavior....Kandi has no one to blame but herself.  The way she was copping attitude with Sharon was uncool and uncalled for.  Your mother is a bitch, you know it.  Don't defend her.  Just nod and let people know you don't agree with it either.  

 

And I'm sorry but just because Sharon may not have ever heard it does not absolve that rickety old bitch of what she said.  She deserves any vitriol headed her way.  I don't feel sorry for her at all.

 

And it's NOT just Sharon that MJ has said nasty shit about.  She's had something to say about every single person in Kandi's life.  She's abusive, mean, controlling, rude and totally selfish.  So I guess I need to understand why it is Kandi would want someone like that in her life.  Regardless of whether or not the woman is her mother.  Joyce's sacrifices as Kandi grew up do not absolve her of her asshole behavior now.  I may not have children but at least I know that sacrifices go along with the territory....you don't get to treat people however you want to because you feel you're owed that.

 

Kandi didn't defend or condone Joyce's words.  She even said that she told Joyce she needed to apologize.  Joyce refused to apologize, so what else do you want Kandi to do?  I just don't see why anyone who is close with their mother is expected to listen with a nod while people call the mother names and make threats. That's extremely unrealistic to me whether the mother is right or wrong.  Just because viewers agree with Sharon doesn't mean Kandi should treat her mother with disrespect and be disloyal to her.  Sharon and Todd's gripe is with Joyce.  Sharon didn't have to deal with Joyce at all and all Todd has to do is avoid Joyce and be polite at the most basic level when there is any interaction.  If he can't deal with it then he can leave Kandi.  Kandi will never be responsible for what Joyce says or does.  

[swankie]

I don't know what their relationship was like, or really why it ended, and maybe they're truly just better off as friends....but part of me wishes she would get back together with Leon. He just seems so much more kind and supportive than Peter.

 

 

Leon once explained his and Cynthia's breakup.  He said that Cynthia worries and frets too much and he's more of a free spirit/take life as it comes person.  Not his exact words, but that was what I got out of what he said.  In other words, they were too opposite.  It's sad too because you can tell he really cares about Cynthia the way he shows up to her events and whatnot which is above and beyond just co-parenting.  I sometimes wonder what goes through his mind when he sees how Peter treats her like crap.

 

The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.

 

 

When Joyce called Sharon a prostitute it was said on camera also.  In fact, she said them at the same time.  The only reason Kandi didn't tell Sharon before the show aired was because she was afraid it would interfere with the wedding. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by swankie

[BitterApple]

Ummmm....not to be super shady....but was Cynthia's final runway dress poorly tailored...or was that back fat?? O_O

I think it was both. Cynthia is by no means fat, she has a beautiful figure, but it does look like she's put on a little bit of weight and couture gowns are designed for girls who are six feet tall and a size two. The tailoring was probably a rush job and done last minute.

 

I did think it was super cool that Leon came out to support.

Edited December 15, 2014 by BitterApple

[CaughtOnTape]

Kandi didn't defend or condone Joyce's words.  She even said that she told Joyce she needed to apologize.  Joyce refused to apologize, so what else do you want Kandi to do?  I just don't see why anyone who is close with their mother is expected to listen with a nod while people call the mother names and make threats. That's extremely unrealistic to me whether the mother is right or wrong.  Just because viewers agree with Sharon doesn't mean Kandi should treat her mother with disrespect and be disloyal to her.  Sharon and Todd's gripe is with Joyce.  Sharon didn't have to deal with Joyce at all and all Todd has to do is avoid Joyce and be polite at the most basic level when there is any interaction.  If he can't deal with it then he can leave Kandi.  Kandi will never be responsible for what Joyce says or does.  

 

Well why would Kandi be loyal to MJ?  MJ's not loyal to her.  I have yet to see a single person (on the show) ask that Kandi disrespect her mother.  From what I see, Todd seems to be more concerned with the fact that MJ seems to cause Kandi extreme distress and discomfort and he doesn't want that for her.  

 

The reason people make Kandi responsible for her mother is she condones it by continuing to pay for everything her mother has.  She waves her hand, blows it off and tells people not to take it seriously.  But then cops an attitude when someone fights back.  Let's not make it seem like MJ is some shrinking violet who has never threatened violence against people.  IIRC, she took her shoe off and tried to beat the hell out of one of Kandi's friends not so long ago.  Threatning is one thing, actually doing is far worse, IMO.

 

Kandi explained in her talking head that she didn't take Sharon seriously, so why cop an attitude about it?  Smile and nod and change the subject.

Edited December 15, 2014 by CaughtOnTape

[qtpye]

I think one of the problems is that Kandi enables her mother with her money.  If Kandi had regular people money and was not a millionaire, people would not put up with her mother's nasty behavior.  Kandi's mother causes problems with her in law and ruins many of Kandi's wedding pictures with her scowling face.  She totally disrespects the home Kandi loved and gave to her by letting her boyfriend rip it apart.  So what is Kandi's reaction to this blatant disrespect...buy her a  huge mansion.

 

In all these scenarios the main person being hurt is Kandi, not Todd or Sharon (rip).

 

Kandi has the right to do whatever she likes with her money and she has created a monster with her mother.  However, we the viewers have the right to be disgusted at Joyce's behavior and Kandi's attitude towards all who dare disrespect her mother.

 

CaughtOnTape, I see you have made many of my points (darn having to work), so I will just leave it at what I said.

 

Edited to add: Don't forget that when she attacked Kandi's friend how she lied and claimed the friend started the altercation.  I guess she forgot about the cameras.

Edited December 15, 2014 by qtpye

[demarti]

 I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.  She has never condoned what her mother has said, but at the end of the day, Joyce is Kandi's mother and they have love for each other.  Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.  She is not responsible for what Joyce says.  The unique thing about reality tv is that people get to hear what other people really think about them.  If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.  The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.  Family members talk about other people and family members all the time.  Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.  She issue is between Todd, Sharon and Joyce.  Kandi should not be placed in the middle.  She cannot control another grown woman -- especially her mother.

For starters, she can tell Joyce that she will not put up with any more negative comments about Todd or his family, and they are to be treated with respect. She doesn't have to be mean about it, just let her mom know she is dead serious.  Just because there is love between Kandi and her mom it doesn't mean Kandi is supposed to turn the other cheek when it comes to Joyce's abuse. And yes, it is abuse when your piece of shit boyfriend destroys your daughters house and you do nothing to stop it because you are too busy moving into the 7 bedroom home your daughter just bought for you!.  When Joyce was telling Kandi that Todds mom was a prostitute and his dad was a pimp, Kandi should have shut her down right then and there. That is what a woman who is about to marry a man she supposedly loves would do. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by demarti

[ZaldamoWilder]

 I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.  She has never condoned what her mother has said, but at the end of the day, Joyce is Kandi's mother and they have love for each other.  Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.  She is not responsible for what Joyce says.  The unique thing about reality tv is that people get to hear what other people really think about them.  If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.  The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.  Family members talk about other people and family members all the time.  Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.  She issue is between Todd, Sharon and Joyce.  Kandi should not be placed in the middle.  She cannot control another grown woman -- especially her mother.

 

People expect Kandi to shut the fuck up.  Not to be rude Talented, I'm not directing this at you but when you defend shittiness, you are shitty.  Either say nothing in which case it can be interpreted as neutrality or diplomatically agree that the person who's out of order, is in fact out of order.  Anything else means you are sticking up for dead wrong.   So people expect a grown woman to stop doing that because it's flat out stupid. 

 

If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.

 

Which I think was Sharon's original point.   Joyce is one of those stank cowardice heffas who are brave in a (bridal salon and red solo cup/family chicken dinner) crowd.  Sharon is from the Boogie Down, which means that one on one? Joyce wouldnt've never even gotten to finish that sentence.   I'm not for old lady gangs (tm Miss Sharon!) damn Imma miss her but, I would've paid my cable bill on time to see that shit.

 

No, Kandi is not responsible for what comes out of Joyce's mouth, but she is responsible for accepting unacceptable behavior.  Lest there be any doubt that she does in fact find it unacceptable, she has admonished her mother in the moment and suggested that she apologize afterwards.  And when you can see that that don't mean shit to a person who's never experienced one rotten result of their behavior, then it's time to give them a rotten result.  And that part there IS Kandi's fault.  She was the breadwinner supporting her mother before she was even an adult.  

 

That's kind of why I got such a kick out of the looks she was shooting Todd when Miss Sharon was going in on her.  No bitch your spouse isn't going to stand up for you while his mom tears you up.  How's it taste?

 

eta:  corrected to Talented Tenth, because you're name is not Teeny lol

Edited December 15, 2014 by ZaldamoWilder

[swankie]

Kandi didn't defend or condone Joyce's words.  She even said that she told Joyce she needed to apologize.  Joyce refused to apologize, so what else do you want Kandi to do?  I just don't see why anyone who is close with their mother is expected to listen with a nod while people call the mother names and make threats. That's extremely unrealistic to me whether the mother is right or wrong.  Just because viewers agree with Sharon doesn't mean Kandi should treat her mother with disrespect and be disloyal to her.  Sharon and Todd's gripe is with Joyce.  Sharon didn't have to deal with Joyce at all and all Todd has to do is avoid Joyce and be polite at the most basic level when there is any interaction.  If he can't deal with it then he can leave Kandi.  Kandi will never be responsible for what Joyce says or does.

 

 

Sharon's reaction was in response to Todd's question of why she won't move to Atlanta.  She said it was mainly because of Joyce and Kandi took issue with it.  That's what led up to Sharon getting really angered when Kandi kept trying to defend and make excuses for what her mother said and did.  Sharon also had an issue with the way Kandi lied about Joyce calling her a prostitute when Todd flat out asked her if Joyce said anything about Sharon.  They even showed the clip of Kandi lying and saying Joyce didn't say anything about Sharon.  They didn't find out the truth until the show aired.  When Kandi told Sharon that Joyce would not be apologizing, Sharon basically said, ok, then if she continues to spread those lies about her she would be dealt with.  That's when Kandi got all bent out of shape, condescending and basically disrespectful to Sharon which only served to make Sharon more angry.  Plus, Sharon was under the influence of a few margaritas at the time.  To me, it is wrong for Kandi to think that her mother doesn't have to be held accountable for her bad behavior but everyone she craps on needs to take it lying down.  She can lose me with that bullshit! 

Edited December 15, 2014 by swankie

[AnnaL]

Kandi will never be responsible for what Joyce says or does.  

 

 

Absolutely, nobody is asking that of Kandi, but then on the other hand she has given her mother a new house. If I was Kandi and MJ said , I am not apologizing , I would have said fine, don't just don't bother to come around my house because Todd is hurt so unless you are wiling to do the grown up thing and apologize we will have to put some distance.

 

By Kandi buying her a new house, she has basically rewarded her bad behavior. If MJ would had to live in her previous house and there was no Kandi money, I bet she would have found some kindness in her heart to apologiz.

 

What kills me is that MJ is a POS, she could have said that to Kandi in confidence, yet she waited until they were filming to put this out there and that is evil. Kandi adores her mother but how can not realize that her mother is a master manipulator who will never be happy and she will always complain as a means to guilt Kandi into giving her more money is beyond me. Kandi suffers from survivors' guilt and she will forever be a hostage of MJ's antics until she has enough and learns to love her from a distance.

 

It would be great if every relationship was perfect and worked, but the reality is that some relationships are toxic and sometimes you just have to let it go, this also includes mother-daughter relationships.

[drivethroo]

 

Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.

 

And neither should Todd.

 

 

 If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.

 

Sharon would've heard it because Kandi would've runtoldat to Todd at some point like she runtoldat to Todd about what Joyce said about his father.  She didn't immediately tell Todd what Joyce said about his mother but she eventually would have with a warning to Todd not to get upset at what her mother said.

 

 

I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.

 

What people expect is for Kandi to respect her husband; she does not.  She can't do anything about Joyce's attitude or mouth but she CAN shut Joyce down when she goes in on Todd, Sharon, Kaela, Carmon etc. by telling her she cannot come up in her house disrespecting Todd and his family and if she can't stop, she can't come over.

 

 

 

Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.

 

Mama Joyce didn't say she didn't like Sharon's wig or Sharon's cooking.  Mama Joyce said she had proof Todd's daddy was a pimp and Todd's mom was a prostitute.  That's not just "something said they don't like," that's a direct insult and fighting words.  And for the aunt who looks like the DinoBaby off of that Dinosaurs show in the 90s claiming that if Sharon's not a hoe she wouldn't be bothered, she needs to sit down too.  If somebody called her a ho, she'd be wanting to throw shoes too.

 

 

Joyce refused to apologize, so what else do you want Kandi to do?

 

For Kandi to also not disrespect Sharon, which she totally was by cussing at her.  If Kandi's excuse for Joyce's mouth is "Well old people say any old thing out of their mouth"  then she should've also applied that to Sharon as well and sat down and not bucked up at her and not cursed at her.

 

 

I just don't see why anyone who is close with their mother is expected to listen with a nod while people call the mother names and make threats.

 

 

Kandi expects Todd to do so; what's the problem?

 

 

Sharon and Todd's gripe is with Joyce.

 

Sharon and Todd's gripe is with Kandi, who not only allows Joyce to disrespect them, but has begun joining Joyce in disrespecting them.

 

 

Sharon didn't have to deal with Joyce at all and all Todd has to do is avoid Joyce and be polite at the most basic level when there is any interaction.

 

And Kandi could've done the same when Sharon started going off but she didn't.  She bucked up her chest and started cussing at the older woman.  She expects Todd to display deference to Joyce but doesn't feel she needs to do the same for Sharon.

 

 

If he can't deal with it then he can leave Kandi.

 

Don't worry, he will leave Kandi, and soon.  And he'll find another wife long before Kandi finds another husband.  We'll see Kandi on Millionaire Matchmaker, going on lame dates, wondering if she'll ever find love again.

[WireWrap]

 I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.  She has never condoned what her mother has said, but at the end of the day, Joyce is Kandi's mother and they have love for each other.  Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.  She is not responsible for what Joyce says.  The unique thing about reality tv is that people get to hear what other people really think about them.  If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.  The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.  Family members talk about other people and family members all the time.  Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.  She issue is between Todd, Sharon and Joyce.  Kandi should not be placed in the middle.  She cannot control another grown woman -- especially her mother.

Yes, Joyce is her mom but she, Joyce, disrespects Kandi at every turn. Kandi would be well within her rights as a grown daughter to distance herself from someone that toxic, mother or not. There is nothing wrong with setting boundaries, especially with someone as toxic as Joyce. Kandi expects Todd to forgive Joyce and move on because "it's my mom and she is what she is" but will not do the same for his mom! Double standard!

 

Sharon had every right to call Kandi out on what Joyce called her late husband and what she called Sharon because Kandi did not tell Todd everything that was said. That was Sharon's point to Kandi, that she was hurt not only by what Joyce said but that Kandi refused to tell Todd and her, they had to hear it on camera.

 

The main person placing Kandi in the middle is Joyce, not Todd, his daughter or Sharon.

[Lakewood27]

Stop putting the rickety old bitch [™ CaughOnTape] on my TV. They keep rewarding this deranged old bat's behaviour by giving her more camera time and a spot at the reunion show. I need to see MJ about as often as I see Ms. Barbara Bailey, which is about once per season. That's it.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Lakewood27

[Neurochick]

 I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.  She has never condoned what her mother has said, but at the end of the day, Joyce is Kandi's mother and they have love for each other.  Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.  She is not responsible for what Joyce says.  The unique thing about reality tv is that people get to hear what other people really think about them.  If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.  The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.  Family members talk about other people and family members all the time.  Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.  She issue is between Todd, Sharon and Joyce.  Kandi should not be placed in the middle.  She cannot control another grown woman -- especially her mother.

 

The problem is that Kandi is co-dependent with her mother.  She doesn't understand that when you're somebody's wife, you can't allow your parents to disrespect your spouse.  Joyce said nasty things about Sharon because she was trying to say why Todd wasn't okay for Kandi to marry.  I love my mother, but I would have told her to zip it, especially since it looks like Kandi is supporting Joyce.

 

To me, Kandi acts like someone who's never been around a healthy relationship.  She wanted to get married because she wanted a husband, but she didn't realize that meant she has to be a wife.  It's like that line, "A man shall leave his mother and a woman leave her home."  Meaning it's time for Kandi and Todd to have a life together and tell the mothers to butt out.  

[swankie]

Leon is so sexy to me. He could literally get it tomorrow if we crossed paths. On an air mattress, in the projects, with an ankle bracelet, and him wearing Derek's pumps.

 

That's fine and all, but I'm picturing him in a pair of Timbs with his pants down around there with that ankle bracelet!!!  Yowsa!!!!!  (Okay, I'm done...anyone have a cigarette?)

 

Meaning it's time for Kandi and Todd to have a life together and tell the mothers to butt out.

 

 

Sadly, Sharon has done just that.  :-(

Edited December 15, 2014 by swankie

[laprin]

I'm starting to think the reason Kandi is okay with the way MJ spews her vitriol is because MJ is Kandi's mouthpiece. She gets to say the stuff Kandi wants to say or agrees with, but she doesn't get her hands dirty. She should have checked MJ from jump street, but instead giggled it off when it was first said. I think Ms. Sharon handled it better than me.  See, I would have gotten mean with it - straight tit for tat.  I would have said, "You heard I was a prostitute, well I heard you're still a hoe and you put a hit out on AJ because you didn't want him next to Kandi's money."  Yeah, I would have gone there and let her see how it feels. I bet Kandi would have been all up in arms if Todd didn't say anything. 

[kassa]

I don't blame Peter at all for wanting distance from Nene.  Too bad we're not being told even a fraction of what went on between the two women.  I would wager that Nene has been repeatedly disrespectful to the not very bright Cynthia over the course of a few years now

 

 

And that’s Peter’s job.

Wow. I don't think I have ever seen Nene cry before.

 

 

Did you?  I didn’t.  I saw her stick a napkin in front of her eyes.  I saw tears on Cynthia’s cheeks, though.

 

To be fair, I don't have high-def.  Maybe it was clear on that.

[ghoulina]

I'm not sure what people expect Kandi to do to Joyce.  She has never condoned what her mother has said, but at the end of the day, Joyce is Kandi's mother and they have love for each other.  Kandi should not have to be subjected to hearing insults and threats against her mother.  She is not responsible for what Joyce says.  The unique thing about reality tv is that people get to hear what other people really think about them.  If not for reality tv, Sharon would probably never have known what Joyce said.  The only reason Kandi told Todd what Joyce said about his father is because it was said on camera.  Family members talk about other people and family members all the time.  Sharon and Todd should have cut Kandi some slack with the understanding that Kandi isn't going to throw a relationship with her mother away because she said something they don't like.  She issue is between Todd, Sharon and Joyce.  Kandi should not be placed in the middle.  She cannot control another grown woman -- especially her mother.

 

No, Kandi clearly cannot control MJ. Nobody could. But she can control herself, and while she does not condone her mother's behavior, she doesn't really condemn it either. Not seriously anyhow. She rolls her eyes and laughs it off - "That's just how my mama rolls". Yes, it's not Kandi's fault that MJ is an insufferable ass, but when she acts like it's NBD that her mother is calling her husband's mother a prostitute, she is furthering the wedge between herself and Todd that MJ is putting there. 

 

Family is great, family is important. I have a lot of respect for people who are all about family. But it's a two way street. When has MJ ever shown that she was all about Kandi? Several times we have seen Kandi clearly upset and MJ just sits there like a rock, sucking on a lemon. Family isn't always everything, and MJ isn't acting like a good mother right now, or a good mother-in-law. She is acting in a way that basically FORCES Kandi to take sides, and that's just not cool. If she doesn't like Todd or Sharon (for God knows WHAT reason???) she should bitch about it privately to her sisters and leave Kandi out of it. 

 

But she doesn't, and Kandi takes it. I get that Kandi loves her mother, but she should not continue tolerating this blatant disrespect of her husband. This is the man she chose to spend her life with! What is she saying to him, by just laughing off this atrocious behavior? If it were me, I would have a long chat with MJ. No, scratch that. Because that woman will just start biting at you and running off on a tangent. So I'd write her a letter and lay it all plainly on the table. I would tell her that her treatment of my husband and in-laws is completely unacceptable and if she doesn't apologize and cease all of her foolishness, then she will be CUT. OFF. Maybe not immediately. I wouldn't put the woman out on the street. But I'd give her some time to find a place and tell her the fancy houses were going up for sale and she could go get a job as a greeter at Wal-mart if she needed to. 

 

That may sound harsh, but if Kandi doesn't set some boundaries now, she is going to wind up with no one but MJ in her life, and what kind of life is that to lead????

[copacabana]

Stop putting the rickety old bitch [™ CaughOnTape] on my TV. They keep rewarding this deranged old bat's behaviour by giving her more camera time and a spot at the reunion show. I need to see MJ about as often as I see Ms. Barbara Bailey, which is about once per season. That's it.

 

This is the crux of the matter for me -- BRAVO needs to stop putting this demented woman on the tube.  Unfortunately for her, Sharon was not sophisticated enough -- and evidently neither is Todd -- to point out the obvious:  That Joyce is not only nasty but nutty as hell and that's always going to a bad combo.  Still, even if they had gone that route -- suggesting to Kandi that Joyce be evaluated and offered treatment of some kind -- I do believe that Kandi would have stuck to her usual NO CAN DO -- That's my moms, I love her, that's just the way she is!  No more talking smack about my Mama.  Just goes to show: growing up with crazy folk will make you crazy too. 

 

But at least had they gone with that argument, Todd and Sharon in particular would've come off looking classier.  It's hard to stay classy when you're that angry and I'd have a time of it controlling my temper too.  That said, threatening to punch someone in the kisser immediately loses your argument for you--as does calling names and shouting.  Unless this is all rehearsed there is simply no way that Todd hasn't asked himself just how detrimental all this was to his mother's already not great health.  That alone is going to put a heavy burden on his new marriage. 

 

In that regard, I give it to Nene.  She knows how to dig the knife in deep and twist with a vengeance.  She's learned from being out in Hollywood how to be as nasty as the rest of them while retaining a condescending veneer of politeness.  Not always, mind you, but a whole lot more often than she used to.  Her comments about Kenya are an example:  "I never called her a whore ... I don't care if she's a whore or not ... " etc.  The suggestion being that she thought just that but was classy enough not to say so and that the whole matter is beneath her.  That's how you do it. 

 

Joyce is utterly toxic, with the ability to spread her poison through the airwaves and the ether.  Bravo has no real shame but man on man. 

 

AgingGoth:  I think your analysis is terrific but I remember all too well Nene lunging for a variety of folks in the most physically intimidating way on more than one occasion both on the show itself and at least one Reunion.  Aside from her tendency to want to dominate with her entire body while hurling insults at the top of her lungs, her brand of so called humour when she is done with whatever old friend she's done with, for the moment, until she decides to make up with them again because it benefits her, is highly abusive -- patronizing, belittling, bitter, and relentlessly mocking.  I'm no Peter super fan, trust me, but I wouldn't want Nene calling my house several times a day, every day, either.  It would be up to my partner to decide whether to continue but you can bet I'd have something to say about it. It would probably be:  Life is easier without her. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by copacabana

[ghoulina]

Did you?  I didn’t.  I saw her stick a napkin in front of her eyes.  I saw tears on Cynthia’s cheeks, though.

 

Before she started dabbing her face with the tissue, I clearly saw tears brimming in her eyes. 

[cooksdelight]

I think Nene was sincerely upset. And I hope that she and Cynthia can be friends again -- off this show. The powers that be will want them to keep ramping up the drama, which can be hurtful to a real-life friendship. It might really be healthy for them both to be in therapy while on this show (Nene even alluded that she would be open to doing that for herself) because the head games that transpire, not to mention having people vilify you online, takes it's toll.

[politichick]

Khandi makes me sick and she is definitely in an abusive relationship with her mother. And, as Todd has pointed out, she rewards the old bat for being a bitch. And I'm sorry, but I remember when she went to visit her old school to give the two students roles in her production, Khandi talked about how that school and the principal or teacher saved her and it was the principal or teacher who took her to all of her auditions. I'm betting that Joyce was a selfish, rotten mother from way back and probably guilted the fuck out of Khandi after her older brother died in that car accident.

There are respectful ways she can shut her mother down and she better figure it out really soon before Todd leaves her ass. Now that his mother, with whom he had a very close but normal relationship is gone, he's going to be way less tolerant of Joyce's bullshit, especially around his child.

Todd may have been a come-up kind of guy back in the day but he has shown he's reasonably good looking and a hard worker and can get another woman easily. He could so be sitting on his ass a lot or being Khandi's employee or become a juvial thief like his boy Apollo, or a serial failed entrepreneur like Peter, but he's chosen to continue to exercise and hone his craft.

 

Trust and believe as the kids say that after a certain period Joyce is going to turn it up again and we'll see what happens next. I loathe that woman and she really makes me wish I could change my first name.

[sasha206]

I cannot stand Kandi's voice and NeNe's phony laugh.  Please get them the hell ooff the screen.

[demarti]

I think Nene was sincerely upset. And I hope that she and Cynthia can be friends again -- off this show. The powers that be will want them to keep ramping up the drama, which can be hurtful to a real-life friendship. It might really be healthy for them both to be in therapy while on this show (Nene even alluded that she would be open to doing that for herself) because the head games that transpire, not to mention having people vilify you online, takes it's toll.

I don't believe Nene was upset. Oh yeah, dabbing her eyes, she even got up and walked out to compose herself and then came back to finish Cynthia off. Very dramatic.  She was doing nothing but honing her acting skills, trying them out on this lame show. Good job, Nene, good job. You have alot of people here actually believing your little act.   

[Queena]

Mh him. I noticed alright. I noticed hard.

I'm just gonna assume there is something fundamentally screwed up about Leon because there is no other explanation for Cynthia not marrying him but choosing to marry Peter. Leon is so sexy to me. He could literally get it tomorrow if we crossed paths. On an air mattress, in the projects, with an ankle bracelet, and him wearing Derek's pumps.

Omg! Lmfao! Lmfao!

Leon is one fine man.

[jumper sage]

When Kandi started laughing at Sharon I was like, "Oh Lord, here we go".  Kandi was harsh.  I don't give them long in the marriage either.

 

Are you all telling me that when I went to switch the laundry I missed Leon?  Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

[heebiejeebie]

Kandi has the power to shut Joyce down.  Buy her all the houses and cars and keep her in men (because that man is a whore through and through to even spend five minutes with that disgusting pile of bile).  But simply cut her out of the show.  it is through Kandi that Joyce makes her heinous hideous self be known.  The show could write a contract with Joyce but Kandi could simply refuse to be on camera with her.  Kandi has a new husband, a daughter who is camera thirsty (there is a disaster waiting to happen) businesses and the ability to pretty much be involved with all the other cast members.  She does not need the bitch with the broom all the way up her ass for story relevance.  But instead she gives Joyce the validation by filming with her.

 

And that is what the fuck Kandi could do if she truly wanted to.  But she won't.  And that speaks volumes.  She is not simply respecting the old bat but she is validating what she admits is bad behavior.  I hope Todd takes Kandi for one dollar more than every last dime Kandi can currently afford to buy Joyce wrinkled scrotums for her to bat around.

Edited December 15, 2014 by heebiejeebie

[panthergirl13]

I don't know any store in NYC that wouldn't kick your pizza-eating ass out the door and tell you to come back in when you're done. Who eats food in a clothing/shoe store??

[SpringTulips]

The sexiness of the timbs can be seen in the first few seconds of this video I clipped.  As a female I used to rock my timbs in the 1990s quite well.  No need for 5 inch heels to be sexy, lol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BONgL61snlM&t=1m14s&end=1m22s

Edited December 15, 2014 by SpringTulips

[Empress1]

she CAN shut Joyce down when she goes in on Todd, Sharon, Kaela, Carmon etc. by telling her she cannot come up in her house disrespecting Todd and his family and if she can't stop, she can't come over

In Todd's house! It's Kandi and Todd's home, and Joyce has disrespected Todd while sitting up in HIS house. Naw, chile, that ain't gon' work. And Kandi sat there and allowed It! I'd have broken things off then, I think.

Todd may not be a millionaire, but he has a great career (I watched every episode of Hollywood Divas, which he executive produced), is nice-looking (though short), and loves his family. If he wants another wife after Kandi, he'll find one. Kandi has a lot of good qualities, but Joyce is pure poison, and no one with options will put up with that. And not just romantically - If I were Carmon, I'd have ended the friendship when Joyce acted the fool in the bridal salon and Kandi didn't check her.

[DrSparkles]

And another example of how stoopid Kandi is, when a brother offer you sex while he's wearing his Tims you do NOT turn that shit down.

Matching (ugly) shoes? Hell nah.

ETA: Nene was right, Peter IS a bitch & he needs to stay out of wimmin bidness!!!!!

Edited December 16, 2014 by DrSparkles

[CatMomma]

In Todd's house! It's Kandi and Todd's home, and Joyce has disrespected Todd while sitting up in HIS house. Naw, chile, that ain't gon' work. And Kandi sat there and allowed It! I'd have broken things off then, I think.

Todd may not be a millionaire, but he has a great career (I watched every episode of Hollywood Divas, which he executive produced), is nice-looking (though short), and loves his family. If he wants another wife after Kandi, he'll find one. Kandi has a lot of good qualities, but Joyce is pure poison, and no one with options will put up with that. And not just romantically - If I were Carmon, I'd have ended the friendship when Joyce acted the fool in the bridal salon and Kandi didn't check her.

 

Not only that, but Todd had to put up with Joyce trashing HIM, to his face, at every opportunity.  Still, he stayed silent out of respect for Kandi.

 

Sharon says some things about Joyce, AFTER Joyce said some awful things about her, Todd's dad, and Todd himself and Kandi suddenly, SUDDENLY finds her damn voice.  

 

I never disliked Kandi. But now, she can fuck off.  I saw a side to her that was really ugly.

[ridethemaverick]

What gets me about Kandi is that she thinks the shit is funny. She laughed as she told Miss Sharon how Joyce wanted to look up her criminal record. Wtf? It's like a joke to her.

Ugh! Can't stand her.

[BitterApple]

Kandi could easily control Joyce's behavior by telling her to get a job, pay her own bills and buy her own damn house. How fast do you think Joyce would fall in line if her checks were getting cut off?

 

Joyce has been meddling and making baseless accusations since Kandi and Todd started dating. She accused him of being a golddigger (with no proof), accused him of having an affair with her friend (with no proof) and publicly announced Todd's parents were a pimp/ho combo (again with no proof). If Kandi doesn't want to stand up to her mother, then that's her right, but she might also find herself friendless and single when the dust settles.

Edited December 16, 2014 by BitterApple

[MichelEliz]

Idk why this episode and Kandi's scenes irked me so badly, I was yelling at my screen again. I usually save that behavior for when Apollo graces the screen, completely oblivious to why his lawyer wife wont stand by his twice felony-convicted, pretty, dumb ass. LOLLLL!!!

 

Probably because wimmen like Kandi irritate the fugg out of me with their self-sabotaging, self-fulfilling prophesy relationship tanking, winding up bitter and alone, when it was all their own doing :-/

[jumper sage]

I forgot to say in my first post - Peter is a bitch.

[announcergirl]

Oh SpringTulips that brought tears to my eyes. I thought it was going to be Mary J's Real Love- the female style, but seeing CL Smooth- oh the memories. To be young again.

Todd is cute to me and has more money than me. Perfect. Kandi betta get some ack right!

Apollo reminds me of my ex-husband.

[quetzal]

I don't see NeNe and Cynthia becoming friends again at this point after NeNe's blog after last week's episode:

 

I'm doing what's best for me and my life, but I do have a word or two of advice for my former friend. This pit bull act you’re putting on is not a good look. I know you’ve got to make yourself feel better about losing me as a friend and selling out, but I have to tell you, it’s so sad to watch and I have been praying for you. If I were you, I would get a real team around me with real advice, because it’s obvious your advice is coming from your wife! Girl bye!

 

It'll be interesting at this point to see them devolve to where they are present-day.

[cooksdelight]

Please post links and info about Joyce in her thread, if they do not pertain to this episode in this thread. Thanks! (I moved them there for you this time)

[Daisy head]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think Cynthia still looks great! When she had her hair back in the headband during her scene at home with Peter, I thought she looked gorgeous. She is, IMO, the most beautiful housewife across all franchises, followed by Kenya ( again- probably in the minority) and Melissa Gorga. Although I guess I should compliment Melissa's plastic surgeon...

I'm not a Phaedra fan, but I felt for her while watching the previews. She looked terrified when Apollo was giving her the bear hug talking about how she's still his wife. That scene made me really uncomfortable.

[copacabana]

Thanks for the Nene blog excerpts.  Yipes!  Why she feels it necessary to use words like "wife" as an insult is something I will never understand. Cheap, easy shots that can backfire real quick.  It wasn't that long ago that Nene was super duper fond of Peter, going on and on about the fine dark chocolate, and flirting up a storm. That was then, this is now, so bye, boy!  Did we ever hear her say during the restaurant sit down anything remotely like, "Cynthia, I understand how you must feel but ... "  Nope. (It also looked like they were being held in the restaurant without any real food perhaps in an attempt to bring on the waterworks more quickly.) Hugging and crying and going on and on about missing each other -- all that's great, I guess, but repairing a damaged friendship would seem to mean altering one's bad behavior for more than a few hours. 

 

I also don't really get women telling each other they are "great friends" to them.  That's up to the other person to determine!  I've certainly never shut down a pal with a complaint by immediately launching into "You know what a great friend I was to you" and trying to ram it down her throat.  Kenya had a good line either in this last chapter or the one before and it was something about how Nene just goes on and on, not allowing Cynthia to speak, and not being able to listen and how THAT is always the problem for her.  Being a true friend requires a kind of humility that Nene mistakes for weakness.  And she can't help herself -- she is always damning her friend with faint praise.

 

Cynthia and Peter are married and what they discuss or don't discuss as husband and wife is absolutely NONE of her business if they choose it not to be.  What I'm getting is that we are about to launch into another dreadful round of Nasty NayNay because 1) her Cinderella gig is coming to close in early January, and 2) the reality that she remarried Greg, who is now resorting to parking lot costumes in an attempt to be cute and make us laugh, and that this is it for her.  She broke it and bought it, twice over.  Is all this trying to feminize Peter a way of compensating for other feelings towards him?

 

She also seems to have forgotten that Greg earned a lot of good will in the very first season by doing quite a lot of interfering into the womin bidness of that period. He was forever trying to mediate among Lisa and Sheree and Kim and DeShawn and his own troublesome wife.  I don't recall Nene telling him to zip it and mind his own nor did I think he needed to either.  

 

Nene could send Kandi and her Mama a huge bouquet of flowers -- They made her look a whole lot better last night than she actually is. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Wow, in about five short minutes Kandi managed to squander any good will she retained.  The verdict among this crowd seems to be 99 percent negative. 

[msblossom]

Kandi should have nipped this in the bud a lonnng time ago. Most people don't change, but MJ didn't have to go shootin' off her big ol' mouth on national television about Todd's parents. Something is seriously wrong with that entitled bitch. I never liked the way she got in between Kandi and her fiancé that was shot to death either. Kandi knows her mother will act like a 2 year old and give her the silent treatment or will whine and kick that Kandi's being unfair blah blah blah if Kandi stands up to her and tells her she has to make things right and apologize to Miss Sharon (may she RIP). I didn't really like Miss Sharon getting all animated and threatening, she had clearly too much to drink, but I can see why she'd be upset with both MJ and Kandi. I would have been straight with Miss Sharon and not attempted to lie and I would have apologized for my mother's behavior and empathized. I really think that Miss Sharon would have appreciated being heard, understood and validated by Kandi had she made the attempt. MJ really has Kandi by the balls, bc she knows Kandi can't deal with her mom's disapproval or coming across like she's disloyal to her mom. Kandi puts MJ before everyone,including herself, with the exception of Riley. WAKE UP, Kandi!!

[Blister]

I don't feel that Kandi is truly loving towards her mother.  Joyce looks an ass on this show and Kandi gets her on the show and in scenes and then discusses sensitive situations with her.  It's not love to insist that someone show all their flaws to millions of people.  Joyce has far too much ego or she'd realize it herself.  I just can't watch people like Kandi and Joyce, who think they know "the truth" and that the rest of people and their opinions are second class.

 

We probably all have someone in our family who embarrasses us, or for whom we feel protective.  We cannot change them, though we might have tried, so we have come to accept the bad with the good.  I'm okay, if that's where Kandi is in her relationship with her mother.  But I'm not okay with Kandi letting Joyce destroy other people on her dime.  Joyce may be a bomb, but Kandi's lighting the fuse.

 

I'm so sick of Nene.  Truly sick of her.  That whole "girl, bye" catchphrase is RUDE.  I reply to her in the same way.  If only she weren't Andy Cohen's favorite, she'd be long gone.  

 

As for Cynthia, I think she is truly beautiful, inside and out.  But her lack of self-esteem is painful to watch.  I actually don't mind her accommodating her husband because I don't think Peter is against Nene simply because of her rudeness at Kenya's charity or later in Mexico. I think he's against her because he saw how Cynthia bloomed without the oppression of Nene on the phone 10x a day.    In this sense, Peter is fighting for the best Cynthia and that's what a wife should get from her hubby.  That it benefits him?  Well, IMO only in the way that a happier Cynthia is more joyful to be around.   Their marriage is more important than her friendship with Nene.

[Talented Tenth]

Well why would Kandi be loyal to MJ?  

 

The reason people make Kandi responsible for her mother is she condones it by continuing to pay for everything her mother has.  

 

Kandi would be loyal to Joyce because she's her mother...  Supporting her mother financially is a separate issue from Joyce making comments about Todd and Sharon.

 

For starters, she can tell Joyce that she will not put up with any more negative comments about Todd or his family, and they are to be treated with respect. 

 

After the "pimp" and "prostitute" comments, I don't recall Joyce saying anything else on camera about them that was different.

 

People expect Kandi to shut the fuck up.  Not to be rude Talented, I'm not directing this at you but when you defend shittiness, you are shitty.  Either say nothing in which case it can be interpreted as neutrality or diplomatically agree that the person who's out of order, is in fact out of order.  Anything else means you are sticking up for dead wrong.   So people expect a grown woman to stop doing that because it's flat out stupid. 

 

Kandi hasn't defended her mother's words and has told her mother she needs to apologize.  Kandi clearly thinks Joyce was wrong, but that still doesn't mean she should listen to people trash her mother.

 

Absolutely, nobody is asking that of Kandi, but then on the other hand she has given her mother a new house. If I was Kandi and MJ said , I am not apologizing , I would have said fine, don't just don't bother to come around my house because Todd is hurt so unless you are wiling to do the grown up thing and apologize we will have to put some distance.

 

By Kandi buying her a new house, she has basically rewarded her bad behavior. If MJ would had to live in her previous house and there was no Kandi money, I bet she would have found some kindness in her heart to apologiz.

 

Joyce commented last season that she was not allowed to come to Kandi's house if she was going to be negative and disrespectful.  People tell stories all of the time about non-rich mother-in-laws who are "monster-in-laws".

 

And neither should Todd.

 

For Kandi to also not disrespect Sharon, which she totally was by cussing at her.  If Kandi's excuse for Joyce's mouth is "Well old people say any old thing out of their mouth"  then she should've also applied that to Sharon as well and sat down and not bucked up at her and not cursed at her.

 

Kandi expects Todd to do so; what's the problem?

 

Sharon and Todd's gripe is with Kandi, who not only allows Joyce to disrespect them, but has begun joining Joyce in disrespecting them.

 

Todd doesn't have to deal with disrespect about his mother, but Kandi isn't the one who made the comments...

 

Kandi was cursing, but so were Sharon and Todd.  Kandi was not cursing Sharon out.

 

Kandi doesn't "allow" Joyce to do anything.  Joyce has free will and said what she said.  Kandi told Joyce to apologize, but if she won't Kandi can't change that.

 

Kandi has the power to shut Joyce down.  Buy her all the houses and cars and keep her in men (because that man is a whore through and through to even spend five minutes with that disgusting pile of bile).  But simply cut her out of the show.  it is through Kandi that Joyce makes her heinous hideous self be known.  The show could write a contract with Joyce but Kandi could simply refuse to be on camera with her. 

 

Kandi can cut Joyce out of the show, but that still won't change what Joyce said and what Todd and Sharon were upset about.

 

Kandi could easily control Joyce's behavior by telling her to get a job, pay her own bills and buy her own damn house. How fast do you think Joyce would fall in line if her checks were getting cut off?

 

Joyce's lifestyle was definitely upgraded by Kandi, but she's not dependent on Kandi's money.  I also don't think family should attempt to control people's behavior by withholding money.  Just because Kandi is rich doesn't make her the mother.  Parents sometimes say or do things we don't like or agree with.  That doesn't mean it's okay to be disrespectful.  

[Midnight Cheese]

Remember a season ago, when Kandi cried to Cynthia about her fears about her wedding?  She said her 'family was not predictable.'   What she meant was that her mother in particular and her aunts were unstable and hadn't had a long or moderately happy (or.  Not and, but or) relationship among them.   There's a reason for that - all of those nasty women are ignorant as all hell.  Joyce in particular, though, is thieving, grifting, mean trash and I'd bet my life she always has been.  I've never heard of a parent surviving their child and then becoming an ogre who makes false accusations about how this dead person was a pimp and that living person was a prostitute, makes clear that one girl is not "a really good girl" the way Joyce did when Kaela was within earshot on the day of her dad's wedding, brings up how she didn't have to strip to Support Her Kids but totally would have if she'd had to, which she didn't, on-camera to embarrass someone for no reason the way she did Nene -- while waving her bingo wings and crooking her Prince Valiant wig. 

 

The 'not predictable' breakdown shows that Kandi has fully understood in her brain and heart and soul exactly what her mother is for years.  She wasn't surprised by Todd/Sharon saying enough is enough, or confused, or 'trapped in the middle' - she was pissed!  She's pissed because she know they are right, because she's said a lot of the same on-air.  No one has ever asked her to tie the crapsack who calls herself "Momma Joyce" to a cement block and drop her into the Atlantic, though they definitely should.  They just don't want Kandi pretending she's invisible and unable to speak or hear when Joyce starts attacking someone.  It's not a lot to ask for.

 

Joyce was probably a rotten human being from birth forward.  I hope someone somewhere has punched her in the face because I won't ever believe she ever treated anyone well.  And she suffered a tragedy, but that doesn't mean she was ever a good mother, or that she's owed the honor of being called "Momma" by everyone younger.

[cooksdelight]

The wrecking of the house shown in this episode, a house Kandi GAVE her mother....was very disrespectful in my opinion. How would anyone feel if they gave their mother a very nice house to live in and the mother turned around and ruined it? Yet Kandi just sort of shrugs.

[pasdetrois]

I still believe Todd married Kandi for a ride on the gravy train, and to be on TV. He knew what he was getting in to with Joyce, so he's not blameless (of course this doesn't excuse Joyce's horrific behavior).

 

The missing wedding ring? Probably to add drama and attract the camera.

[Kellyee]

On the one hand, Peter should be more supportive of Cynthia. And Peter is a douche in general. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Nene is one of those exhausting friends who demands complete loyalty and attention at all times. If Cynthia wants to maintain her friendship with Nene, she needs to be prepared to eject anyone Nene doesn't get along with from her life. And she better remember to kiss Nene's ass, and show up at all Nene's events, and never contradict anything Nene says. I can see where being friends with Nene leaves one with very little time or energy for sex.

 

And Cynthia's runway days are over. She lacked the finesse and energy of the other models. She just looked very flat and lifeless as she was walking.

 

Kandi is an abused daughter, who has been in the abusive relationship for so long that she doesn't even see it anymore. That's why she doesn't see the very big deal of being called a whore on national television. Kandi allows mommy to beat up on her, so she thinks everyone else should just allow it too.

 

None of the marriages on this show have any long term potential.