Gone With the Wind (1939)

[andromeda331]

On 6/25/2019 at 11:46 AM, ruby24 said:

Well, it's true. The book itself (I've read it twice) is deeply, inherently racist. The movie is less plainspoken about that in terms of its white characters but the depictions of the slaves are incredibly racist. And the whole movie is about glorifying the "Old South" and the Confederacy.

I think the thing that saves it (if it does, and there may come a day when this isn't enough anymore) is the inherent selfishness of the characters of Rhett and Scarlett, who end up turning the story into a melodramatic soap opera about themselves and their relationship rather than any sort of wider depiction of southern life and commitment to slavery. Especially in the second half. You can appreciate the incredible acting, production values of Old Hollywood and the entertaining nature of it aside from the abhorrent values of the society it's trying to endorse.

You can't escape that in the book. 

Well said. That's exactly what they movie is about but its easy to be distracted by Rhett and Scarlett given how horrible their characters are and the second half with all that happens and Scarlet ends up going through. It is very well acted, the costumes and everything is very well done. Watching the movie as a kid and preteen that's what I focused on but watching in my late teens and as in adult I noticed the rest of it. It really is an endorsement of the Old South and the Confederacy and that's really hard to watch. 

[Dandesun]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Well said. That's exactly what they movie is about but its easy to be distracted by Rhett and Scarlett given how horrible their characters are and the second half with all that happens and Scarlet ends up going through. It is very well acted, the costumes and everything is very well done. Watching the movie as a kid and preteen that's what I focused on but watching in my late teens and as in adult I noticed the rest of it. It really is an endorsement of the Old South and the Confederacy and that's really hard to watch. 

Even that intro title page where it equates the Old South with fairy tales and romantic chivalry, referencing knights and fair damsels... it's like, sure, you can pretend that the upper class of the Old South was fanciful and romantic with the giant hoop skirts and balls and dancing but all of that was based off of slavery and pretending otherwise does no one any good.

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

Even that intro title page where it equates the Old South with fairy tales and romantic chivalry, referencing knights and fair damsels... it's like, sure, you can pretend that the upper class of the Old South was fanciful and romantic with the giant hoop skirts and balls and dancing but all of that was based off of slavery and pretending otherwise does no one any good.

Even putting aside the horrific reality of slavery, as a white woman, you could not pay me to live in the Old South. No, not in a million years. Corsets, hoop skirts, and a thousand petticoats in the ungodly heat (I live in the South, so I should know), few rights, no real freedom, having snotty, prissy  "Southern Gentlemen" condescend to me, and basically living and being treated like an over-groomed Pomeranian? Screw that noise, I don't get the appeal. 

I used to adore Gone With the Wind (the movie is a marvel in terms of acting and filmmaking), but these days I kind of hold it at arm's length. I now feel rather guilty for ever liking it, TBH, because I feel it set an utterly damaging precedent in terms of how the Civil War is depicted in media and even in history classes. 

[mariah23]

The podcast Unspooled will be discussing Gone with the Wind  on July 11.

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Even putting aside the horrific reality of slavery, as a white woman, you could not pay me to live in the Old South. No, not in a million years. Corsets, hoop skirts, and a thousand petticoats in the ungodly heat (I live in the South, so I should know), few rights, no real freedom, having snotty, prissy  "Southern Gentlemen" condescend to me, and basically living and being treated like an over-groomed Pomeranian? Screw that noise, I don't get the appeal. 

You couldn't pay me either. I like the clothes but the rest of it? No thank you. I don't really get the appeal either.  No freedom, few rights and putting up the Southern Gentlemen crap.

Quote

I used to adore Gone With the Wind (the movie is a marvel in terms of acting and filmmaking), but these days I kind of hold it at arm's length. I now feel rather guilty for ever liking it, TBH, because I feel it set an utterly damaging precedent in terms of how the Civil War is depicted in media and even in history classes. 

I used to love the movie too and feel guilty that I used to like it. It is very well made, excellent costumes, sets and acting. But after realizing it glorified the Old South and Confederacy and that's not suppose to be a bad thing. Why is that a good thing? All the beautiful homes and wealthy bought on the back of slaves? Mammy is an excellent character, but slave who spent her entire life taking care of the rich white family who owned her. War sucks but the men fought to keep slavery. Melanie won't go north because her son might have to go to school with a black boy. Ashley is the 'typical Southern gentleman' but so was Rhett. Its movie but all of those things were real as was the glorifying of the Old South and Confederacy that went on for so long after the Civil War and still continue to this day although there is finally more push back.  

Edited June 28, 2019 by andromeda331

[VCRTracking]

Coincidentally this video essay was uploaded last week:

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Coincidentally this video essay was uploaded last week:

Hehheh, I was just coming to post this.  😄

[LilWharveyGal]

"Twelve Oaks" is for sale.  Shall we all pool our money? 😆

[andromeda331]

On 6/28/2019 at 10:05 AM, VCRTracking said:

Coincidentally this video essay was uploaded last week:

This is part one of two. I really liked what he had to say and can't wait to see part 2.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/27/2019 at 2:30 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Even putting aside the horrific reality of slavery, as a white woman, you could not pay me to live in the Old South. No, not in a million years. Corsets, hoop skirts, and a thousand petticoats in the ungodly heat (I live in the South, so I should know), few rights, no real freedom, having snotty, prissy  "Southern Gentlemen" condescend to me, and basically living and being treated like an over-groomed Pomeranian? Screw that noise, I don't get the appeal. 

I used to adore Gone With the Wind (the movie is a marvel in terms of acting and filmmaking), but these days I kind of hold it at arm's length. I now feel rather guilty for ever liking it, TBH, because I feel it set an utterly damaging precedent in terms of how the Civil War is depicted in media and even in history classes. 

I’m a black woman and I still enjoy the film. It is my favorite film (hence my name). I find it excellent regarding cinematography, directing, set design, costumes and acting. I can love the film as an artistic peace while not finding it ASPIRATIONAL at all. It’s not! It’s told from the point of view of Scarlett (for the most part), and while we can identify with her struggles as her universe of extreme privilege falls a part, we are not expected to ignore her very bias view point and many many character flaws. 

Perhaps it’s easier for me to enjoy it as a black person (I watched this movie with my Great aunt a lot may she RIP) because I never saw myself in Scarlett (although she’s a fascinating character). I never had the “realization” as an adult regarding how racist and sexist it was because it was always presented to me in that way. 

[Miss Dee]

It'd be interesting to see a remake of Gone With the Wind in a "sliding doors" style - half with the "romantic chivalry" overtones from the book and the other half critiquing that for the lie it was.

Or maybe film The Wind Done Gone instead.

[zillabreeze]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

Or maybe film The Wind Done Gone instead

I read that years ago.  It was hysterical!

[Spartan Girl]

It's on TCM right now. The scene with those poor slave kids at Twelve Oaks fanning the girls taking their naps has always pissed me off. Those little kids were practically toddlers, THEY were the ones that needed a goddamn nap.

And that's another example of Southern women being treated ever so infuriatingly delicate. Like seriously, what self-respecting teenager would take a nap. Especially when those bitches barely worked all day, except for going to parties and doing needlework or whatever. Although to be fair I'd be so bored doing those things I'd be in a coma. So yeah, to echo an earlier post I'd rather eat poison than live in that era. "Grand old days" my ass.

[zillabreeze]

29 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

It's on TCM right now.

Yes it is.  I used to keep it on my DVR just for sleeping.  I am a costume 'ho.  I watch Downton Abbey for the costumes, too. That's not England's best time either.  Same shit, different day.

I shit you not.  I was born in Atlanta in 1960, we moved to Texas in 1964.  I did not know until I was about 10  yrs old that the south had lost "the war".  Seriously.  No one told me.

On the other hand, my family were poor Brokeass white sharecroppers.  My grandmothers and mother had  black "nannies".  It was kind of an equal " we all broke" kind of thing.

I don't remember where I heard it (I was about 6), but I said the N word!  My grandmother smacked me the white right off my face! (1966) She said that it was ugly and nasty.  That only "white trash" talked that way.  "They are colored". 

I think it was the best she could do at the time.  She had a black maid that she adored.  She was trying as much as an old Southern woman could.

[Blergh]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It's on TCM right now. The scene with those poor slave kids at Twelve Oaks fanning the girls taking their naps has always pissed me off. Those little kids were practically toddlers, THEY were the ones that needed a goddamn nap.

And that's another example of Southern women being treated ever so infuriatingly delicate. Like seriously, what self-respecting teenager would take a nap. Especially when those bitches barely worked all day, except for going to parties and doing needlework or whatever. Although to be fair I'd be so bored doing those things I'd be in a coma. So yeah, to echo an earlier post I'd rather eat poison than live in that era. "Grand old days" my ass.

Don't disagree that these toddlers were more deserving of naps than the teen daughters of the plantation owners' families.

 However; one must keep in mind that from preteen years onward, non-working class white females in the antebellum South were expected to wear boots, stockings, pantaloon undergarments, umpteen petticoats,corsets  and hoops under very heavy outer dresses(although often with very low necklines) even during the height of summer (and,it must be said during pregnancies) so it was rather common for women of that circle to faint from being overwhelmed by all the accoutrements they had to wear. They even had specially made 'fainting chairs' made for the purpose! Yes, if they had worn practical and lighter clothes it would have spared them and those toddler slave girls from all that but few folks of that era besides Amelia Bloomer considered that option. 

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

Don't disagree that these toddlers were more deserving of naps than the teen daughters of the plantation owners' families.

 However; one must keep in mind that from preteen years onward, non-working class white females in the antebellum South were expected to wear boots, stockings, pantaloon undergarments, umpteen petticoats,corsets  and hoops under very heavy outer dresses(although often with very low necklines) even during the height of summer (and,it must be said during pregnancies) so it was rather common for women of that circle to faint from being overwhelmed by all the accoutrements they had to wear. They even had specially made 'fainting chairs' made for the purpose! Yes, if they had worn practical and lighter clothes it would have spared them and those toddler slave girls from all that but few folks of that era besides Amelia Bloomer considered that option. 

True. And again I say I would rather eat poison than live in that era and have to wear those suffocating dresses in that abominable heat with no air conditioning. Yeah, I'm spoiled, so what?

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

True. And again I say I would rather eat poison than live in that era and have to wear those suffocating dresses in that abominable heat with no air conditioning. Yeah, I'm spoiled, so what?

If you're spoiled, then so am I, Spartan Girl. I said it once, I'll say it again: nothing, but nothing on Earth could compel me to live in the Old South. I love that I can wear a tank and shorts in the summer (again, I live in the South, our summers are no joke), that I have air conditioning, and that I can fucking vote. And "Southern Gentlemen" have never done a thing for me (my dear, darling husband isn't even from the States).

And the little girls fanning the napping Southern belles always pissed me off too, even back when I unabashedly loved GWtW. It's more impossible for me now than ever to not root for the North (however flawed they were). 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Wiendish Fitch

[Wiendish Fitch]

8 hours ago, zillabreeze said:

I shit you not.  I was born in Atlanta in 1960, we moved to Texas in 1964.  I did not know until I was about 10  yrs old that the south had lost "the war".  Seriously.  No one told me.

No one's telling them that today, either. That's why there's such an uproar about keeping statues of a bunch of alleged "heroes" who were little more than traitorous assholes who lost the damned war. That's right, the South has a collective hard-on for a bunch of losers. It boggles the mind. And, no, slaves were not happy being slaves. Even if they appeared happy (which I call bullshit), a prisoner having a good day now and then doesn't erase the fact that they're still in prison.

Back to GWtW, liking the movie does not reflect on anyone as an individual in any way, shape or form (mind you, I used to adore it), it just rubs this particular individual the wrong way. I'm prickly because I was born in New England, but I've lived in the South since the age of 7. Technically I'm a native, but I still feel like a Yankee at heart, and Southern pomposity and the blind spots regarding the Civil War irk me to no end, and I now feel GWtW has contributed negatively in some small way.

Again, the film has a lot going for it, and I will alway get the appeal... but it also has a lot going against it, and, given recent events, it's too hard to ignore the negative aspects.

[zillabreeze]

On 6/30/2019 at 12:02 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I’m a black woman and I still enjoy the film. It is my favorite film (hence my name)

I have had a mess of adopted greyhounds.  My beloved, Scarlett, was named for her tiny waist!

Right now, the smart, bossy and shiny black girl that runs my house is "HattieMac".   The highest of honors, IMHO.

[Spartan Girl]

My mom had it on earlier, and when I informed how racist Mellie was in the book she was shocked. 

Racism aside, I can't help liking Mellie, both in the book or movie. She and Mammy were more awesome than people took them for.

Olivia just turned 103 this month. Still alive and kicking!

[TigerLynx]

Since the story is told from the viewpoints of the whites/previous slave owners, I'm not surprised it depicts the "Old South" as glorious and wonderful, etc.  They would see it that way.  They weren't slaves, and they benefitted from the system.  As for the freed slaves continuing to work for former masters or returning to work for former masters, the freed slaves were not given what they were promised when the war ended, so they didn't have a lot of choices.

[Queena]

On 6/25/2019 at 3:03 PM, VCRTracking said:

I've always been more interested in the making of GWTW and that era of Hollywood history than the actual movie itself. I saw the TV movie "The Scarlett O'Hara War" more than a decade after it first aired in 1980. You can find it on YouTube. It starred Tony Curtis as David O. Selznick as he searches for the right actress to play Scarlett. All the leading ladies of the day Joan Crawford, Carole Lombard, Jean Arthur, Katherine Hepburn, Talullah Bankhead, Miriam Hopkins vie for the coveted role. Selznick goes through many trials and tribulations trying to find the right actress. Finally at the end of the movie just as they begin production by filming the burning of Atlanta first, Selznick's brother introduces him to a young actress from England by saying "Meet Scarlet O'Hara." and it's Vivian Leigh(played by Morgan Brittany) and Selznick smiles.

Leigh was the perfect choice not just because she was so startingly beautiful(especially for the then new technicolor with those green eyes), but also half Irish and grew up in India during the British Raj, so acting like a member of a more privileged class and race wouldn't have been hard.

Tallulah may have been up there in age, but I think that she would have made a ok Scarlett. 

I LOVE Tallulah Bankhead. Her episode of I Love Lucy (or maybe it was another Lucy show) is the best episode. 

[mariah23]

Part 2 of the video essay is up!

Edited July 30, 2019 by mariah23

[Angeltoes]

On 6/27/2019 at 3:38 AM, andromeda331 said:

but watching in my late teens and as in adult I noticed the rest of it.

GWTW was shown at our local movie theater in '76, when I was a junior in high school, for an admission price of $1.  Most of us had never seen it.  What we girls noticed was Clark Gable.  When he was standing at the bottom of the Twelve Oaks staircase looking up at Scarlett (like he knew what she looked like in her shimmy) we all swooned.  Well worth a buck!

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Angeltoes said:

GWTW was shown at our local movie theater in '76, when I was a junior in high school, for an admission price of $1.  Most of us had never seen it.  What we girls noticed was Clark Gable.  When he was standing at the bottom of the Twelve Oaks staircase looking up at Scarlett (like he knew what she looked like in her shimmy) we all swooned.  Well worth a buck!

Clark Gable is still the finest thing about the entire movie 80yrs later. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

GWTW was shown at our local movie theater in '76, when I was a junior in high school, for an admission price of $1.  Most of us had never seen it.  What we girls noticed was Clark Gable.  When he was standing at the bottom of the Twelve Oaks staircase looking up at Scarlett (like he knew what she looked like in her shimmy) we all swooned.  Well worth a buck!

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Clark Gable is still the finest thing about the entire movie 80yrs later. 

Oh, definitely, Clark Gable was hot.

[TigerLynx]

I think something else to remember about the time period is that no one was equal.

Women had no rights.  One of the things that got Scarlett into trouble was she didn't conform to society's rules.  Rhett liked that about her until he realized that his and Scarlett's reputations could ruin Bonnie's chances.  At which point, he became a huge hypocrite like almost everyone else in their group.  Mellie lecturing Rhett about listening to idle gossip was funny.

The USA was committing mass genocide against the Native American Indians.  The ones that managed to survived weren't granted USA citizenship until 1924.

The Italian, Irish, German immigrants were looked down upon.  The Chinese immigrants were exploited.

The North had very defined class structures as well.  Even after slavery was abolished, people were not seen as equals.  One thing about humans is they have managed to discriminate against other people in just about every way they can - gender, race, religion, etc.

If you were Caesar, Rome was a great place to live.  If you were a slave, not so much.

[Scarlett45]

14 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I think something else to remember about the time period is that no one was equal.

Women had no rights.  One of the things that got Scarlett into trouble was she didn't conform to society's rules.  Rhett liked that about her until he realized that his and Scarlett's reputations could ruin Bonnie's chances.  At which point, he became a huge hypocrite like almost everyone else in their group.  Mellie lecturing Rhett about listening to idle gossip was funny.

The USA was committing mass genocide against the Native American Indians.  The ones that managed to survived weren't granted USA citizenship until 1924.

The Italian, Irish, German immigrants were looked down upon.  The Chinese immigrants were exploited.

The North had very defined class structures as well.  Even after slavery was abolished, people were not seen as equals.  One thing about humans is they have managed to discriminate against other people in just about every way they can - gender, race, religion, etc.

If you were Caesar, Rome was a great place to live.  If you were a slave, not so much.

Yeah. I can definitely appreciate Scarlett’s struggles to survive as a woman in this world (even though she was at an extreme advantage being white, from the previous ruling class, highly intelligent and educated). Scarlett made a way to keep body and soul together when her entire world blew up. She kept a roof over everyone’s head because they belonged to her (even if she didn’t like them). These things I 100% relate to and identify with. 

When Ashley laments about how she sold herself in marriage I rolled my eyes- who was gonna pay the taxes?!! Scarlett was willing to do what it took, including being Rhett’s mistress (much lower socially than a wife) and degrading herself socially further to pay the taxes because this was HER family. I watched that and saw someone who understood duty. 

As far as Rhett turning into a hypocrite, yup he did, people often get that way about their children’s futures. I can see him wanting everything for his child that he didn’t have for himself (although he spent time spurning it). That was a huge character flaw of Rhett’s. 

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 10:19 PM, TigerLynx said:

One of the things that got Scarlett into trouble was she didn't conform to society's rules.  Rhett liked that about her until he realized that his and Scarlett's reputations could ruin Bonnie's chances.  At which point, he became a huge hypocrite like almost everyone else in their group. 

As I recall from the book, Rhett's change in attitude was in part a reaction to realizing he would never have Scarlett's love.  As he explains in the final chapter (cut short, as always, for the movie script):
 

Quote

“I knew you didn’t love me when I married you. I knew about Ashley, you see. But, fool that I was, I thought I could make you care. Laugh, if you like, but I wanted to take care of you, to pet you, to give you everything you wanted. I wanted to marry you and protect you and give you a free rein in anything that would make you happy — just as I did Bonnie. You’d had such a struggle, Scarlett. No one knew better than I what you’d gone through and I wanted you to stop fighting and let me fight for you. I wanted you to play, like a child — for you were a child, a brave, frightened, bullheaded child. I think you are still a child. No one but a child could be so headstrong and so insensitive.” ...

“But then, there was Bonnie and I saw that everything wasn’t over, after all. I liked to think that Bonnie was you, a little girl again, before the war and poverty had done things to you. She was so like you, so willful, so brave and gay and full of high spirits, and I could pet her and spoil her — just as I wanted to pet you. But she wasn’t like you — she loved me. It was a blessing that I could take the love you didn’t want and give it to her. . . . When she went, she took everything.”

I think Rhett was always a realist.  When he focused all his attention on Bonnie, he knew that he had to make some accommodations with society in order for her to have options in the future.  I don't think he was being a hypocrite as much as a schemer -- as he always was.

[Scarlett45]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:58 PM, Inquisitionist said:

I think Rhett was always a realist.  When he focused all his attention on Bonnie, he knew that he had to make some accommodations with society in order for her to have options in the future.  I don't think he was being a hypocrite as much as a schemer -- as he always was.

I think it’s possible Rhett was both. He wanted Bonnie to be accepted by southern high society because he thought them to be morally superior, even though he hated being expected to follow the rules himself. I think he was a realist in that he knew Bonnie’s options were more limited as girl/woman, but he didn’t want her to have access to the highest parts of other social circles- I think he wanted the best of both worlds. He wanted to look down on the culture of his origin while allowing his child access to the parts he valued. 

[PaulaO]

I find it interesting that I've seen this movie on the big screen at least a dozen times and wore out 2 copies of the book, yet never saw or felt that this movie/book said "slavery is o.k./ the South should have won the War of Northern Aggression/isn't being a southern belle just dandy.'"  I saw it a story, a piece of fiction.  It's not a documentary.  I love the story, the clothing, the sets.  I start crying when Scarlett declares "As God as my witness, I'll never be hungry again" and don't stop crying til the credits roll.

[zillabreeze]

It was all about Scarlett.  Life sucked. Dealt her some serious shit.  She didn't really understand why.

I love Scarlett for her resilience. She dug in the dirt .  She tried prostitution. She killed a man that was fucking with her home.

Scarlett was a bad ass bitch.  That's why I love her

[TigerLynx]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 1:30 PM, zillabreeze said:

It was all about Scarlett.  Life sucked. Dealt her some serious shit.  She didn't really understand why.

I love Scarlett for her resilience. She dug in the dirt .  She tried prostitution. She killed a man that was fucking with her home.

Scarlett was a bad ass bitch.  That's why I love her

If Scarlett had been the kind of woman she was expected to be in her time (weak, helpless, does what's she's told), neither her nor Melanie would ever have made it out of Atlanta alive.  Scarlett never would have gone to Atlanta in the first place.  The book would have been over by the first chapter.

[jhlipton]

Readers of this forum might be interested in the New York Times "1619 Project" (based on the year that the first slave ship arrived in America), which is a series of articles, poems, videos, etc, about the lasting impact of slavery.  Of course, the Usual Suspects call it a "lie" and "brainwashing".  But they're not racists, no sirree!!!

[SmithW6079]

On 8/7/2019 at 2:03 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I can definitely appreciate Scarlett’s struggles to survive as a woman in this world (even though she was at an extreme advantage being white, from the previous ruling class, highly intelligent and educated

I think Scarlett has an animal intelligence/instinct for survival, but she's not educated. The book makes it clear (more so than the movie) that she had zero interest in learning (which is why she never understands Ashley).

The Tarleton twins are the same way -- animal instinct not education. Heck, Gerald even tells Scarlett she could have "any of the bucks in the county," which reduces the boys to breeding stock.

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I think Scarlett has an animal intelligence/instinct for survival, but she's not educated. The book makes it clear (more so than the movie) that she had zero interest in learning (which is why she never understands Ashley).

The Tarleton twins are the same way -- animal instinct not education. Heck, Gerald even tells Scarlett she could have "any of the bucks in the county," which reduces the boys to breeding stock.

Didn’t Scarlett receive an education at a primary school for girls before her adolescent years? (Before the events of the novel?). She’s very literate, and has advanced math skills (she can do a profit/loss statement, keep all the records for her business herself)- compared to many women in her social circle I would consider her educated, like her mother who managed most of plantation for Mr O’Hara. 

[Sarah 103]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:27 PM, Angeltoes said:

GWTW was shown at our local movie theater in '76, when I was a junior in high school, for an admission price of $1.  Most of us had never seen it.  What we girls noticed was Clark Gable.  When he was standing at the bottom of the Twelve Oaks staircase looking up at Scarlett (like he knew what she looked like in her shimmy) we all swooned.  Well worth a buck!

What I love about the scene is the reason why he's looking at her like that. He's just seen her flirt with every young man there and he's pretty sure he knows exactly what kind of young woman she is. Also, the scene with the two of them arguing in the library is hot, intense, and wonderful. 

On 8/7/2019 at 2:03 PM, Scarlett45 said:

As far as Rhett turning into a hypocrite, yup he did, people often get that way about their children’s futures. 

I love that he goes from "With enough courage, one can do without a reputation" to "my daughter is going to be received in the best homes of the south," and Bonnie is only a week old. Rhett goes from not caring about reputation, status, and position to doing everything he can to secure a place for Bonnie in society. Scarlett starts off caring a great deal about reputation, status, and position to placing more value on money and survival. 

[methodwriter85]

On 7/16/2019 at 6:35 AM, Queena said:

Tallulah may have been up there in age, but I think that she would have made a ok Scarlett. 

I LOVE Tallulah Bankhead. Her episode of I Love Lucy (or maybe it was another Lucy show) is the best episode. 

I don't know, there's a reel of the auditions and Tallulah really didn't seem right for the part.

The closest and the runner-up was Paulette Goddard, who did a wonderful job as "I'll never be hungry again!" Scarlett but I think she failed to get the part because I think she failed to give off the spoiled little girl vibe.

Be Kind Rewind did a video on the casting.

It really is kind of crazy that there were so many things that had to come into place to cast Vivien Leigh. In an alternate world, it probably would have been Paulette Goddard, and it still would have been a great performance, but...

One piece of trivia that I loved is that Vivien did that opening scene as her last. They had to give her a few weeks to rest and get her back to looking like a fresh faced 16-year old girl.

Edited August 24, 2019 by methodwriter85

[BetterButter]

R.I.P. Mickey Kuhn, last surviving Gone With The Wind cast member

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, BetterButter said:

R.I.P. Mickey Kuhn, last surviving Gone With The Wind cast member

So they’re all gone now. But hey, 90 is pretty good.

[methodwriter85]

Apparently the guy who played the baby version of Beau Wilkes is still alive. His name is Patrick Curtis and he's 83 years old. He wouldn't have had any memories of the movie, though.

[Badger]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Apparently the guy who played the baby version of Beau Wilkes is still alive. His name is Patrick Curtis and he's 83 years old. He wouldn't have had any memories of the movie, though.

He was married to Raquel Welch.  I think he was her second husband.

[RealHousewife]

GWTW is one of the few longer movies I will rewatch. I love old movies. I don't love the problematic elements, but I appreciate them for the more elegant writing, the fashion, lack of bathroom humor or vulgarity, etc. I mean, "damn" was shocking during those times. 

I don't know if another actress' beauty has ever taken my breath away quite like Vivien Leigh's during this scene. Those eyes! She was so striking and delicately beautiful. Just something about her. I'm a big fan of Vivien's acting too, and how she worked her eyes. A Streetcar Named Desire is my other fave. 

Clark Gable was handsome, but I am not attracted to men with mustaches for some reason. Maybe I find the look old-fashioned or something. 

[Inquisitionist]

That image really clashes with the book's opening line that "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful..." 

[Dr.OO7]

On 12/2/2022 at 4:38 PM, Inquisitionist said:

That image really clashes with the book's opening line that "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful..." 

But then a few sentences later, it reads "Sitting there, she made a pretty picture. . ." She's frequently described as "pretty " or "handsome " throughout the book, so I always assumed that she was just simply a 7/8 rather than a 10, or not a  conventional beauty rather than outright unattractive, or even that Margaret Mitchell outright forgot her initial description of her.

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

But then a few sentences later, it reads "Sitting there, she made a pretty picture. . ." She's frequently described as "pretty " or "handsome " throughout the book, so I always assumed that she was just simply a 7/8 rather than a 10, or not a  conventional beauty rather than outright unattractive, or even that Margaret Mitchell outright forgot her initial description of her.

I think Joan Crawford was probably who she had in mind. Not a conventional beauty but she could be absolutely stunning and entrancing. 

[Scarlett45]

18 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

But then a few sentences later, it reads "Sitting there, she made a pretty picture. . ." She's frequently described as "pretty " or "handsome " throughout the book, so I always assumed that she was just simply a 7/8 rather than a 10, or not a  conventional beauty rather than outright unattractive, or even that Margaret Mitchell outright forgot her initial description of her.

Yeah, as if being a 7 or an 8 was such a striking difference in life experience for women compared to being a 10. I get that for women of Scarlett's peer group, being attractive was the most important thing (to attract the right type of man), but most women weren't 10s, if you were a 7 or an 8, unless you had a vile personality you probably had plenty of suitors. 

16 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I think Joan Crawford was probably who she had in mind. Not a conventional beauty but she could be absolutely stunning and entrancing. 

Yes, language changes of course, but I find that the description of "beautiful" for women in the 1930s was a very specific idea of femininity. Joan Crawford is an excellent example, she was sexy and attractive, but not what those of the era would describe as "beautiful". Also, there's print media vs visual media, "Hollywood" plain as it were. Olivia de Havilland was gorgeous, yet Melanie was supposed to be plain faced.

[methodwriter85]

Joan Crawford probably would have had a good chance at being cast as Scarlett if the movie had been made about 5-7 years earlier. By the late 30's though her career was in the dumps and she was just a little too old to play Young Scarlett.

[RealHousewife]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:38 PM, Inquisitionist said:

That image really clashes with the book's opening line that "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful..." 

Agree. Vivien was very beautiful period imo, not handsome or everyday pretty.

[shipmate]

This thread has sent me down a rabbit hole listening to a podcast and watching videos about the making and complexity of the movie/story.  Keep it coming - it’s super interesting!