Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[ruby24]

She didn't say they're dragging it out for many seasons to come- she said she didn't know and they're probably going to drag it out for a "couple seasons." That could include this one.

 

My guess has always been (based on the way the usual will they/won't they story pretty much always goes) that they will probably get together in the finale of Season 2. Shows usually drag couples out for two seasons. Longer than that and they're pushing it, imo. Chuck/Blair got together in the S2 finale on Gossip Girl, Oliver and Felicity took two seasons of build up on Arrow (2 and 3, because they didn't start the push for those two until the second season), and Berlanti's own previous show Everwood (which also killed off the "other person" in the first season love triangle) got Amy/Ephram together in the finale of Season 2.

 

If they're planning to put them together, I'm still predicting it will happen at the end of this coming season. And we won't see them as a couple until Season 3. That would be the typical path (and on this show when it comes to the relationship stuff, the most predictable route has prevailed every step of the way so far, so I'm thinking this a fairly safe bet).

Edited June 30, 2015 by ruby24

[driedfruit]

Maybe I caught it wrong, but her talk about the show lasting a long time seemed to imply that they're going to drag this out for much of the series' run.

 

Any dragging is the wrong move for this couple. Their story doesn't have the kind of tension that allows for a compelling and natural slowburn, they know each other too well and are already far too entangled for it to work. The news about a lot of new characters being added in also worries me, since the writers don't know what to do with the characters they have.

[ruby24]

Well, I think her saying the show will run a while was just to try to assure that they don't need to get together right away- but honestly, most shows do will they/won't they for two seasons.

 

If they're still planning to get Barry/Iris together (as I assume they are, if they haven't decided to go a different direction, ala Oliver and Felicity, since there's no Felicity equivalent on the show as of now), I fully expect that it'll happen at the end of next season and Patty will be a stalling romance. I'd be surprised if they went longer than that. Especially given all the examples I cited- network shows tend to go two seasons of teasing and then do the pair up. I think the reason for that is because they know that any longer tries the patience of the audience too much (two seasons of it is long enough).

 

Frankly I disagree with the entire premise that you can't have them be together right away- why not? They've been a solid, committed couple for decades of comics history and I would love to see them portrayed as such- that's how they're supposed to be. The stalling to me is not very entertaining and I would rather see them as a team/partners. But I guess they think all this dragging out is more interesting for some reason. It's really not. Not with these writers anyway, who can't come up with any relationship drama besides love triangles. If they're not good at writing that stuff they should just put the couple together and play to their writing strengths, which is the superhero comic book mythology part (and the loving family aspect I suppose, but that could easily be a part of them as a couple too). Then they wouldn't even have to worry about having phony relationship "drama." It's not necessary for every show, is it? Couldn't they just be a positive, loving couple and still have the show be entertaining?

 

I think it would work fine, especially since this show is so light in tone and they don't want it to have the constant melodramatic, soap opera feel of Arrow. They don't need the romance drama on this one, they really don't.

Edited June 30, 2015 by ruby24

[FurryFury]

They've admitted to wanting to do the will-they-or-won't-they storyline with Laurel and Oliver, but it failed, so they're doing the same with Iris and Barry. No surprises here.

[quarks]

Well, I think her saying the show will run a while was just to try to assure that they don't need to get together right away- but honestly, most shows do will they/won't they for two seasons.

 

 

As I've noted over on the Relationships thread, I'm not sure that's true. Sure, some TV couples have gotten together at the end of the second season and lasted (The Mindy Project as the most recent example.) But the uber will they/won't they, Ross/Rachel, went on for 10 years. That's a terrifying example, but looking at others, and just focusing on dramas/action shows, Castle/Beckett, four seasons; Booth/Bones, six seasons; Josh/Donna, seven seasons; Mulder/Scully, unclear, but probably seven seasons; Riker/Troi, seven seasons plus films; Meredith/Derek, four seasons; Nate/Sophie, three seasons; Parker/Hardison, four seasons; Jack/Allison (Eureka) four seasons; Jo/Zane (also Eureka), four seasons; Juliet/Shawn (Psych), five seasons; Jane/Lisbon (The Mentalist) seven seasons; Olivia/Peter (Fringe), three seasons.

 

I'd also put Oliver/Felicity in this category. The seeds for that were planted in season one - light flirtation in a couple of early episodes, allowing her to find out Oliver's secret before Laurel did, the "very platonic circumstances" comment and so on, with the producers referring to them as a potential couple as far back as season one. That's really a better example of a couple getting together after/during three seasons, not two.

 

There's also a trend of putting a couple together in the second season, and then breaking up the couple in the third season and putting them into either a second round of will/they won't they, or into an on/off relationship until the final episode. This includes your examples of Chuck/Black and Amy/Ephraim above, and now Nick/Jess over on New Girl. In one case - Buffy/Angel - this continued even after both shows ended.

 

The couples that do tend to last without going into an on again/off again relationship?  Couples who get together in the third season or later - even if one of the characters didn't pop into the show until the second season - Hook/Emma over on OUAT, for instance.

 

I do think there's more of a trend towards getting couples together and keeping them together - Falling Skies is a good example of this, as was Nikita.  But I also think that just one season in, it's a bit difficult to predict where Flash will go.  Flash could put Iris and Barry together at the end of the season season and keep them there, or, as Driedfruit and FurryFury are suggesting, Flash could drag it out.  Or possibly not do Iris and Barry at all.  Who knows?

 

since there's no Felicity equivalent on the show as of now

 

 

Oh, Cisco, how quickly you are forgotten.

[FurryFury]

Jane/Lisbon (The Mentalist) seven seasons; Olivia/Peter (Fringe), three seasons.

 

Actually, six for The Mentalist. And you could say two with Fringe in a way, they did kiss/admit their feelings in season 2 finale.

 

I definitely feel like 2 seasons is a somewhat more common occurrence than any other period, but it's hardly a rule, still.

 

In one case - Buffy/Angel - this continued even after both shows ended.

 

Buffy and Angel as shows never really had any protracted will-they-or-won't-they except for Angel and Cordelia in season 3 (which I hate, personally, even if I love the characters). I don't think they should be lumped together with more formulaic shows. As for Buffy and Angel as characters, this is absolutely not the same trope. 

 

The couples that do tend to last without going into an on again/off again relationship?  Couples who get together in the third season or later - even if one of the characters didn't pop into the show until the second season - Hook/Emma over on OUAT, for instance.

 

Not a good example. I've dropped the show because the quality of writing has become unbearable, but it's like 99% clear they won't stay together in s4. Plus, Hook's hardly the lead. Iris technically is the female lead and she is far more prominent on the show.

 

I think there will certainly be a kiss or some grand declaration at the end of season 2 but there's a part of me that suspects that the TPTB *want* a Felicity/Olicity-like rabid (no offense, but it's true) fanbase and Iris or WestAllen don't have one and I'm not sure will. This is why they were teasing Barry with Caitlyn and this is why they are trying to give his new LI Felicity-like qualities. They simply want publicity and diehard fans, and shippers are such fans, unlike the more casual audience which can disappear very fast if the quality drops (and going by Arrow I'm sure it will happen soon).

Edited June 30, 2015 by FurryFury

[driedfruit]

WestAllen do have a big fanbase, they're always all over anything that has to do with Flash on social media. Interviewers often comment to both Grant and Candice about how by far the majority of requests and questions they get is for WestAllen. And from what I've seen Candice probably has as big a fanbase as Grant, which is rather impressive. 

 

Inciting ship wars has never had much to do with any one couple's popularity in any case, as both Delena and Chair were far bigger ships than Olicity and yet their shows pushed rival ships for a long time. I bet Arrow wouldn't have paved such a clean road for Olicity if Laurel/Oliver hadn't failed so spectacularly. On Flash, the teasing of Caitlin/Barry and propping of Caitlin as a backup female lead was something that happened before the show even aired, which makes me think it had more to do with Arrow and their failures than Iris or WestAllen. 

Edited June 30, 2015 by driedfruit

[FurryFury]

WestAllen do have a big fanbase, they're always all over anything that has to do with Flash on social media. Interviewers often comment to both Grant and Candice about how by far the majority of requests and questions they get is for WestAllen. And from what I've seen Candice probably has as big a fanbase as Grant, which is rather impressive.

 

Just not comparable with Olicity or some TVD shippers. I think it's clear by now, just look at all the polls and stuff. Olicity's everywhere (and no, I'm not a shipper, I just say what I see).

 

I don't think WestAllen have been badly received I just don't see them inspiring the same passion and obsessiveness, so far. But everything may change - a lot of popular couples have only gotten popular after 2 or 3 seasons.

Edited June 30, 2015 by FurryFury

[quarks]

I'm not sure that quality has much of anything to do with popularity.  Arrow's third season came in for a lot of criticism (understandably so, in my opinion), but ratings/total viewers were up from the second season, and the third season finale beat the finales for the first two seasons in both ratings/total viewers. Granted, I think that was more thanks to Flash than anything happening on Arrow - the ratings went up after the crossover appearances, and my own guess is that the higher ratings for the finale was at least in part because of Barry's cameo - but still, criticism or no criticism, ratings/total viewers went up.

 

In any case, I think the biggest argument against anything happening with WestAllen next season has nothing to do with perceived popularity or past television history or this upcoming new love interest or even Barry not telling Iris the truth for most of last season, but rather the fact that even after knowing Barry's real feelings, Iris chose Eddie not once, not twice, but four times - even after Eddie dumped her.  She fought to get back together with Eddie, and they did, and Barry acknowledged that Iris had fallen in love with Eddie.

 

This doesn't mean that Barry and Iris won't be getting together eventually. Just possibly not in the second season.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Its too bad that fictional shows about superheroes get weighed down by this tripe.  The quality of everything else non-romance better stay high, or else it will be very tough for me to stick with this show. 

 

CW soap opera-izes everything so drastically that it makes very tough to overlook the horribly over-done portrayals of (P)LI & WT-WT crap.

 

(I'm honestly 'on the fence' as to whether I want to keep watching Arrow [Olicity;  along with wandering and/or bad storylines], when it comes back in October.)

[driedfruit]

I'm not sure that quality has much of anything to do with popularity.  Arrow's third season came in for a lot of criticism (understandably so, in my opinion), but ratings/total viewers were up from the second season, and the third season finale beat the finales for the first two seasons in both ratings/total viewers. Granted, I think that was more thanks to Flash than anything happening on Arrow - the ratings went up after the crossover appearances, and my own guess is that the higher ratings for the finale was at least in part because of Barry's cameo - but still, criticism or no criticism, ratings/total viewers went up.

 

In any case, I think the biggest argument against anything happening with WestAllen next season has nothing to do with perceived popularity or past television history or this upcoming new love interest or even Barry not telling Iris the truth for most of last season, but rather the fact that even after knowing Barry's real feelings, Iris chose Eddie not once, not twice, but four times - even after Eddie dumped her.  She fought to get back together with Eddie, and they did, and Barry acknowledged that Iris had fallen in love with Eddie.

 

This doesn't mean that Barry and Iris won't be getting together eventually. Just possibly not in the second season.

 

I'm not sure this is a compelling conflict to stretch into many seasons. I suppose if they have Barry fall so much in love with the new girl that he's not willing to leave her for Iris, it would even the playing field. But if they write a romance like that for Barry and have it last however many seasons to delay WestAllen, they're setting themselves up for failure.

 

I'm just very confused if this was their plan all along. It's strange that they didn't start Iris and Barry out as strangers or as platonic friends, even antagonists to a small degree, so they would need years to thaw their initial barriers. Smallville's Lois/Clark and Delena both had a lot of built in conflicts, so the long stretch from them meeting to becoming a couple made some sense. Iris/Barry don't have that, and this news of them being delayed for however long only means there's likely no half-decent storyline, just a lot of contrived romantic mishaps and a series of unnecessary (and badly written) triangles. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by driedfruit

[FurryFury]

. It's strange that they didn't start Iris and Barry out as strangers or as platonic friends, even antagonists to a small degree, so they would need years to thaw their initial barriers.

 

Absolutely, this is something that should be required for any long-developing romance. One-season romantic false lead is not enough to prolong the getting together part without it being contrived and annoying. And really, I always prefer a romance that has two characters who don't know each other because it's simply more fun. You get to see different dynamics between them and the writing doesn't need to explain why exactly these characters haven't got together yet if they are supposedly so compatible.

[driedfruit]

Compatibility does become questionable if it's never the right time for a couple.

[SevenStars]

Compatibility does become questionable if it's never the right time for a couple.

I think it only becomes an issue when the writers only want to stall putting the characters together instead of developing their relationship. Most writers don't seems to know how to develop a romantic story for characters who already know each other and love each other. There are so many ways they could have and still can develop the relationship between Iris and Barry. But the writers need to start seeing their relationship as more than just a romantic one or one that needs to be stall until they want them kissing all over each other.

Anyway, I fear for Iris the most out of this whole thing because she is the one most likely to pay the price and has paid the price, if the writers don't move her past being only Barry's LI. If they don't do that it will mean that she will be side-lined while Barry is having his side romantic relationship and only really comes back in the picture when the writers think it is time to put her with Barry. I will hate it and that will most likely cause me to stop watching the show.

[Trini]

Ask Ausiello:

Question: Got any other Flash scoop for next season? —Jeannette

Ausiello: My gut is telling me Joe is going to partake in some nookie-nookie with a woman named Olivia. In potentially related news, producers are looking for an African-American actress in her early-40s to play a troubled old friend of Joe’s. The recurring character’s name is Olivia.

 

Question: I’m a big fan of Iris West on The Flash. Any info on what’s to come for her in Season 2? –Leslie

Ausiello: Hopefully, more of an independent and resourceful Iris, per Candice Patton’s wishes. “She’s found her way into S.T.A.R. Labs and she’s trying to get her career off the ground at Picture News,” her portrayer says. “So I, personally, am really hoping to see Iris have more agency and more abilities to help the team and The Flash and the city that she loves so much. I want to see her stand on her own two feet and really contribute to the group.” BONUS SCOOP: Patton teases that, following the wormhole cliffhanger, the Season 2 premiere will address “where Barry is and what that means for S.T.A.R. Labs and Iris and Joe and Eddie. It’ll pick up right where we left off.”

[Sakura12]

Hopefully they actually listen to Patton and give Iris more agency and more to do. 

[CabotCove]

WestAllen do have a big fanbase, they're always all over anything that has to do with Flash on social media. Interviewers often comment to both Grant and Candice about how by far the majority of requests and questions they get is for WestAllen. And from what I've seen Candice probably has as big a fanbase as Grant, which is rather impressive.

Inciting ship wars has never had much to do with any one couple's popularity in any case, as both Delena and Chair were far bigger ships than Olicity and yet their shows pushed rival ships for a long time. I bet Arrow wouldn't have paved such a clean road for Olicity if Laurel/Oliver hadn't failed so spectacularly. On Flash, the teasing of Caitlin/Barry and propping of Caitlin as a backup female lead was something that happened before the show even aired, which makes me think it had more to do with Arrow and their failures than Iris or WestAllen.

 

 

What is this failure?, how is it measured what is the yardstick?. IMO Laurel/Oliver "failed" because of Flarrow showrunners (AK,GB,..MG) : continous terrible writing, sabotage and well because the fans told them they failed, instead of fixing things, they decided to prove them right and fail  even more. TVd, GG  ..Of course even other CW shows have a little bit of dignity left.  They are using the same shitty formula they used for Oliver/Laurel on Barry/Iris. Flarrow writers like to write terrible backstories and nonsensical obstacles for their romances. When they failed, in Arrow's case they they had no desire to write better but quickly ran to fanservice/pandering: Olicity, . So now its Olicity fanservice + their bad romance story writing. Ow wow thats so much better..With Flash/WestAllen they have nowhere to run to, but I can say they have failed WA a couple of times so far already.

 

 WestAllen is just lucky not to run into an Felicity/Olicity equivalent, otherwise Im sure of it would be deemed a "failure" and sabotaged. But  I think  having DC's Geoff Johns, helps in the show sticking to comic canon and its original vision of the show, so fanservice or rival ships have little chance to begin with, even if they were more popular. Luckily WestAllen is the biggest ship, so no temptation to go in another direction.  I do not think WestAllen fans have to worry about any other ship, and with this new ship coming, the Flarrow's producers romance writing tropes are the ship's worst enemy.JMO.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Conell

[tarotx]

Laurel and Oliver's back story with him cheating with her sister is want Did in that ship. Then the creative team made it worst by bringing in Sara and filling out the story to make Laurel not look "as" pretty. But the real ender is they had current Sara and Oliver a "couple" and no way Laurel looks good forgiving Oliver enough to be his GF.

Luckily they only made West/Allen ick for a bit with them both all Daddying Joe West. Most people are handling that ok. It only stinks when Barry is all 14 around Joe. Making Iris seem the big sister.

[CabotCove]

Laurel and Oliver's back story with him cheating with her sister is want Did in that ship.

 

I dont believe that, this is the CW, their storylines are along these lines if not worse. Romance Rape? Murder?...

 

Anyway I find Barry/Iris back-story  to be  written quite incest-y, its not much better the way I see it.  Yes luckily they got better received, but its like these showrunners just cant stop ruining things,  they love to remind and emphasize on this familial connection too much.

[Sakura12]

I think the issue is these writers seem obsessed with incest-y/family partner sharing. Oliver slept with his dad's former mistress, Oliver switched off sleeping with two sisters. Barry and Iris go around calling the same man, dad, in front of each other and other people. They need to stop calling attention to that. They make think it's funny, but it turns me off wanting them as couple. 

 

I'm someone that doesn't care about comic canon that much. I go by what I see onscreen in front of me. I'm not going to read decades worth of comics about a history that isn't happening on this show. The Barry and Iris in the comics are not the Barry and Iris on this show.  Give me a well written story with well written characters to root for or against. If Iris and Barry are meant to be, show me that.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

Rape troupes are nasty. Why I could never Get into Chuck and why most Vampire fiction annoys the crap out of me. This isn't just CW romance, this is about a women who we are to respect as a badass super women having no respect for herself. It's just Nasty that people think Laurel deserves to be with this man who has shown no respect for her. Because of comics. Oliver treated crazy Isabel better and definitely Sara. And he wasn't actually respectful with either. Considering SA has played that Oliver was already in love with Felicity since 2-6.

And yeah these writers are into incest for some bizarre reason. But I think West-Allen won't truely get together in this time line until Joe is killed Off in a couple seasons. I exact them to play with them via alternative realities for a time.

I dont believe that, this is the CW, their storylines are along these lines if not worse. Romance Rape? Murder?...

Anyway I find Barry/Iris back-story to be written quite incest-y, its not much better the way I see it. Yes luckily they got better received, but its like these showrunners just cant stop ruining things, they love to remind and emphasize on this familial connection too much.

[Iamsweetdee]

Sorry, I don't see any incest vibes at all. I see two folks who are best friends. No different than two kids raised next door to each other, in and out of each others homes, vacations with each other, thinking of the others parents as their second set of parents, etc.  Moreover, THEY don't consider it incest nor do they even think of each other as siblings. Finally, really SOs can't refer to parents as moms and dads? That's messed up. 

[ruby24]

Yeah, I mean there are some married people who call their in-law's "mom" or "dad." Is that incest-y too? I don't think so.

[Trini]

Rape troupes are nasty. Why I could never Get into Chuck and why most Vampire fiction annoys the crap out of me. This isn't just CW romance, this is about a women who we are to respect as a badass super women having no respect for herself.

 

Can you clarify; (Maybe in the Lightning Rods thread?) I don't recall anything like that on Chuck.

[tarotx]

Sorry sometimes my head thinks everybody is inside it. I ment GG's Chuck.

Can you clarify; (Maybe in the Lightning Rods thread?) I don't recall anything like that on Chuck.

[CabotCove]

Sorry, I don't see any incest vibes at all. I see two folks who are best friends. No different than two kids raised next door to each other, in and out of each others homes, vacations with each other, thinking of the others parents as their second set of parents, etc.

 

  Its not actual incest obviously but the way the writers frame the relationship , they weirdly put them in a sibling corner when they could focus on their long term friendship.  They could just downplay their foster siblinghood, out of sight out of mind, but instead the writers over-emphasize . They even go beyond that the way I see it. Why, I really dont get them. Anyway different strokes, to me this quite an obstacle and  a major put off with WestAllen. I still like them but I think the show makes some silly wrong turns with these two, among them Eddie's death as an obstacle... One bad  turn is easy to brush off and forgive, but not when they keep piling up. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by Conell

[SevenStars]

Its not actual incest obviously but the way the writers frame the relationship , they weirdly put them in a sibling corner when they could focus on their long term friendship. They could just downplay their foster siblinghood, out of sight out of mind, but instead the writers over-emphasize . They even go beyond that the way I see it. Why, I really dont get them. Anyway different strokes, to me this quite an obstacle and a major put off with WestAllen. I still like them but I think the show makes some silly wrong turns with these two, among them Eddie's death as an obstacle... One bad turn is easy to brush off and forgive, but not when they keep piling up.

I think the reason it seems like the show go out of their way to emphasize Joe/Barry's relationship is because they have become one of the most important relationship on the show. Because of that, the writers go out of their way to make sure that we know how much Joe loves Barry as a son and how much Barry loves him as a father. Unfortunately, Joe is Iris dad, so despite the fact that the show doesn't seems to really care about that relationship, there are times Iris have to acknowledge Joe as a father and Joe have to acknowledge Iris as a daughter.

So I can understand why that might make some people uncomfortable. It doesn't better me but I understand why it would others.

Honestly, I think the writers would sooner have Iris be reveal as not being Joe's daughter than change Barry and Joe's relationship.

This is also why, while I enjoy Joe and Barry's relationship, I also resent it. I resent it because it seems like the writers don't give a damp about Joe and Iris' relationship. I hate that because I think their dynamic is really interesting.

[Starfish35]

http://tvline.com/2015/07/11/the-flash-season-2-cast-teddy-sears-jay-garrick-shantel-vansanten/

- Teddy Sears cast as Jay Garrick

- Shantel VanSanten cast as Patty Spivot

More spoilers from Comic-Con

http://tvline.com/2015/07/11/the-flash-comic-con-2015-season-2-spoilers/

- Zoom is the season big bad.

- Wormhole is bringing characters from Earth-2

- Both Jay Garrick and Wally West will appear.

- Season 2 kicks off a few months later (I thought we'd seen something that said differently?)

Iris has a “new sense of agency,” said Candice Patton, adding that she’s found herself filming in S.T.A.R. Labs more. “‘Iris part of the Flash team” and provides “the heart and earth” while Cisco and Caitlin are the technology and science.

More at the link.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Starfish35

[Oscirus]

The addition of Patty is going to make things really interesting for people hoping to ship anything other then Westallen. If Patty/Barry have decent chemistry I can see the shipping going hardcore for that one.  That being said I'm over WestAllen and I just want Iris to land on her own two feet independent of that romance and her father's overprotectiveness.

 

I'm starting to think more and more that Wally is who's going to wind up on the spinoff so it'll be interesting to see how they introduce him.

[driedfruit]

With the Iris stuff, I'll believe it when I see it. They talked a big game regarding her journalism arc last season and that turned out poorly, so I'm not getting my hopes up for this one. 

 

The addition of Patty is going to make things really interesting for people hoping to ship anything other then Westallen. If Patty/Barry have decent chemistry I can see the shipping going hardcore for that one.  That being said I'm over WestAllen and I just want Iris to land on her own two feet independent of that romance and her father's overprotectiveness.

 

While there are some who hate Iris and WestAllen enough to ship whatever else comes along, the announcement of Patty was met with so little enthusiasm that it's become a joke in the fandom. She was announced at the Flash panel and lack of excitement for her was egregious, more so when compared to the crowd's excitement for Zoom, Jay, and Wally. 

 

I had a good laugh from the video. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by driedfruit

[Oscirus]

Holy no reaction, batman. If you didn't post that video I would've never believed that a comic con would have such a muted reaction to the introduction of a fairly notable comic book character. I guess for now I'll chalk it up to the audience having no interest in that lover triangle/love interest stuff.

[Trini]

I guess she's not that notable?

[CabotCove]

Jay/Wally are iconic & popular mainstay characters in the Flash mythology not comparable at all to a minor character like Patty Spivot, I can count the number of issues she is in comics. Once upon a time that would have been the reaction for Felicity or Caitlin at Comic Con.  

 

I dont think its any future prediction of how this character will be received in the show. TV can be an amazing platform for such minor characters, it can get them on the map in a few episodes, when it can take years/decades in comics or just not even happen. Who know what will happen with Patty, but it doesnt have to be become a Felicity situation. Caitlin isnt, but is still doing well as a character and for the show.   JMO.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Conell

[driedfruit]

I wouldn't consider Patty as that minor. Prior to New 52 perhaps, but not since. 

 

And I don't think she can be compared to Felicity or Caitlin whose success lay largely in them having roles outside of the cursed love interest. Patty is not only gonna be the clueless girlfriend, but as a recurring character, she'll have even less chance to get a POV and development than Iris or Laurel.

 

There's always a chance the actress could blow us all away and she and Grant could have killer chemistry that makes up for all the faults in the writing, but I'm not counting on it. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by driedfruit

[Velocity23]

The Flash Comic Con Panel - Grant Gustin, Candice Patton, Danielle Panabaker, Carlos Valdes

[CabotCove]

I wouldn't consider Patty as that minor. Prior to New 52 perhaps, but not since.

 

 Patty's appearance history in The Flash comics is spotty and inconsistent at best, and the New 52 is not exactly well liked by fans and media critics. Its a young universe too. When I look at the whole Flash mythology, all 75 years of it,  overall IMO  she is  a minor & newer character. I wouldnt put her in the same bracket as the big boys Jay/Wally even Zoom. She also has got the disadvantage of also not being a speedster. 

 

There's always a chance the actress could blow us all away and she and Grant could have killer chemistry that makes up for all the faults in the writing, but I'm not counting on it.

 

Well Im not counting on it either,i simply don't know what will happen. Like I noted before , Patty can just be a good Patty for the show  without doing  a Felicity.  JMO.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Conell

[driedfruit]

She's being introduced as a love interest, so her success or failure will likely be determined by how well that relationship does. The writers don't bother developing their regular female characters beyond their status as love interests, I highly doubt they'd do it for a recurring. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by driedfruit

[SevenStars]

She's being introduced as a love interest, so her success or failure will likely be determined by how well that relationship does. The writers don't bother developing their regular female characters beyond their status as love interests, I highly doubt they'd do it for a recurring.

If the writers love the actor or character they might surprise us. So it depends on how interesting the writers find the character.

[Lokiberry]

These writers couldn't write a decent romantic story if the fate of western civilization depended on it. Whether Barry/Patty catches on will depend entirely on the chemistry between the two actors; and considering GG's track record with regards to sexual chemistry with his female co-stars, I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Lokiberry

[CabotCove]

She's being introduced as a love interest, so her success or failure will likely be determined by how well that relationship does. The writers don't bother developing their regular female characters beyond their status as love interests, I highly doubt they'd do it for a recurring.

 

Yeah its an unfortunate intro status but hey she might just get lucky and actually fair better than the regular female characters. She is going to be a cop so thats an active role, her connection to Barry will be more than just romantic too, as they will be coworkers.  In any case, I hope all the female characters will get more chances to shine outside the love interests role.

 

 

These writers couldn't write a decent romantic story if the fate of western civilization depended on it. Whether Barry/Patty catches on will depend entirely on the chemistry between the two actors; and considering GG's track record with regards to sexual chemistry with his female co-stars, I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

 

Different strokes as I for one feel  he didn't  suck with any of his female love interests or co stars. I especially like the chemistry he has with Iris & Linda. 

 

 In my speculation, I  think Barry/Patty will likely catch on (to me Grant/Barry is just that likable)  but likely B/P will not be a major threat for WestAllen, I think they will likely be too many ships for any one ship to be a big problem for WestAllen. There is already SnowBarry, some Barry/Felicity shipping, whats next: Barry/Hawkgirl?, Barry/Vixen?. I think that too many ships just really helps WestAllen to remain the preferred direction. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by Conell

[Ruby25]

It is kind of funny that there was zero reaction from comics fans of all people to her character. I don't think she's a notable comics character at all. I'm pretty sure for Flash fans Iris is the one and only.

 

You know, they could have gone for that angle and maybe tried to do a show that has the hero already with a committed partner/gf, instead of the predictable will they/won't they, drag it out as long as possible. Barry/Iris in the comics were always solid, never on/off. The couple already existing doesn't have to mean things are boring (it might even be better, because this love triangle stuff is the most annoying part of the show, especially when the audience knows its main couple is fated anyway).

[wingster55]

I don't predict Patty catching on. It's been a while since I've seen her..but last I saw of the actress...she kinda sucked. 

 

There were a few "whoos" at her announcement. But out of more than 1000 people..bad reaction. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by wingster55

[CabotCove]

I'm pretty sure for Flash fans Iris is the one and only.

 

Well a couple of months ago, one would have thought Candice killed people's puppies or something .  Some Flash fans hated Candice being  Iris before they even gave her a chance. But  the show started & the meltdown cooled down, my point is this pre-reaction doesnt really fully predict the whole story. 

 

Im of the mind of just waiting and see, the future no one really knows. 

[Oscirus]

I get that Patty isn't going to get as big a cheer as the super heroes and supervillains but when a character who should be fairly well known among the comic con audience basically gets dead silence, that's kind of noticeable. Couple that with the fact that once again, the producers are looking for their next felicity and the fact that she's likely going to be the only recurring/main character not in the know about Flash's secret identity and it's not hard to see problems starting to arise.

[Ruby25]

It seems like all characters not in the know are never liked by anyone, so right away I don't think she's going to be a fan favorite. But if she and Barry are indeed going to get together she's probably going to have be let in on it (and sooner than Iris was I bet). I'm predicting she finds out midway through the season or something, so that she and Barry can hook up for real.

[Trini]

Set spoiler pic: https://twitter.com/tbharron/status/620764234364776448

 

 

I get that Patty isn't going to get as big a cheer as the super heroes and supervillains but when a character who should be fairly well known among the comic con audience basically gets dead silence, that's kind of noticeable.

 

I don't think the reaction is that big of a deal. We don't know the makeup of the audience that was there at that particular time. And since SDCC has become more a media event than a comics event, it's possible that most people there were only familiar with the Flash characters from the TV show.

[Ruby25]

I don't know about that. Jay Garrick, Zoom and Wally West haven't been on the show yet. They're all comics characters and got huge applause, I just don't think Patty Spivot is a beloved comics character at all.

[driedfruit]

Well a couple of months ago, one would have thought Candice killed people's puppies or something .  Some Flash fans hated Candice being  Iris before they even gave her a chance. But  the show started & the meltdown cooled down, my point is this pre-reaction doesnt really fully predict the whole story. 

 

Im of the mind of just waiting and see, the future no one really knows. 

 

This is a very odd comparison to make. Yes, certain parts of the fandom had issues with Candice's casting, but there was never a question of whether Iris belonged on the show from the the start. Nor was the issue (or any opinions regarding Iris) ever unanimous within the Flash fandom.

 

The negative reaction to Patty, however, has been near unanimous due to very legitimate reasons. 

Edited July 15, 2015 by driedfruit

[Trini]

Not sure if any of this dialog will make to the finished episodes, but here the transcription of the ComicCon teaser:

 

[voiceovers with clips of a blue streaked speedster]

 

Barry - It just feels like every time I win, I still lose.
Iris - My mother used to say, ‘the universe doesn’t give without taking’.
[Tom C.] - I’m going to give you the thing you want most, Barry. But it won’t matter, because you’ll never truly be happy. Trust me, I know you. And I’m always right. I still win.
Caitlyn - I’m not coming back, Cisco. I can’t.

? - Wha-what’s happening to me?

Barry - I just feel like I made a mistake; I should have saved my mom.
Henry - Right now, Central City doesn’t need you to be Henry Allen’s son, it needs you to be the Flash.
Iris - Central City believes in the Flash, and so do I.
Barry - Who the hell are you?
? - My name is Jay Garrick, your world is in danger.
[Tom C.] - We were never enemies, Barry. I’m not the thing you hate.
Iris - Run Barry, run.

 

‘Zoom is coming’

Edited July 16, 2015 by Trini

[bettername2come]

Not sure if any of this dialog will make to the finished episodes, but here the transcription of the ComicCon teaser:

 

[voiceovers with clips of a blue streaked speedster]

 

Barry - It just feels like every time I win, I still lose.

Iris - My mother used to say, ‘the universe doesn’t give without taking’.

[Tom C.] - I’m going to give you the thing you want most, Barry. But it won’t matter, because you’ll never truly be happy. Trust me, I know you. And I’m always right. I still win.

Caitlyn - I’m not coming back, Cisco. I can’t.

Barry - Wha-what’s happening to me? I just feel like I made a mistake; I should have saved my mom.

Henry - Right now, Central City doesn’t need you to be Henry Allen’s son, it needs you to be the Flash.

Iris - Central City believes in the Flash, and so do I.

Barry - Who the hell are you?

? - My name is Jay Garrick, your world is in danger.

[Tom C.] - We were never enemies, Barry. I’m not the thing you hate.

Iris - Run Barry, run.

 

‘Zoom is coming’

I think the "What's happening to me?" was Cisco, but I'm not positive.