S03.E05: Rip Off

[Athena]

Holmes and Kitty investigate the murder of a postal store owner whose death is connected to the illegal diamond trade. Meanwhile, Gregson's career is placed in jeopardy when he hits a fellow NYPD officer.

[Watcher0363]

Well, if Kitty is not becoming some kind of wonderful. I think she may be wise beyond her years or well trained by someone else.

[AimingforYoko]

You can definitely see what Holmes saw in her. As for her help with Gregson, it was in her wheelhouse. Both Gregson's daughter (did we know she was a cop?) and her hate being perceived as a victim. So she gave him an out.

[alias1]

I want to know what she said to Stotz. 

[shapeshifter]

I kept thinking the perp would be the rabbi brother because Moshe was making money off diamonds obtained by enslaved workers.

[milner]

I guess I just can't handle change because I want Joan back and Kitty gone.  Is Lucy L trying to leave the show??

[Blakeston]

I want to know what she said to Stotz. 

 

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we later find out that she did something horrible (like threatening the lives of his loved ones, or something like that), believing it to be justified, and thus establishing her as a villain.

[Slovenly Muse]

I'm totally on board with Kitty, she's great. But I'm not buying Captain Gregson's storyline. He finds out his daughter's partner (in both senses) was abusing her, and his response was to punch the guy in front of everyone with no explanation and no rationale? That is a reaction that is not going to solve a problem, but rather make it substantially worse for everyone involved, mostly through the rampant speculation it would generate. I mean, he's a captain. This guy's an officer! Surely he has connections, strings he can pull, power and authority he can abuse to have the guy transferred out of his daughter's life, or other previous instances of violence he can unearth to get the guy fired or disciplined... that could have actually been an interesting mini-arc for the captain! Instead, his reaction was so inflammatory that when he talked about the indignity of having to shake the guy's hand, or the pain of his daughter having to see him every single day, all I could think was that it was kind of his fault for blowing up and taking some actual, practical solutions off the table. And I want to think more of the captain than that.

 

Then again, I suppose it was really a move on the writers' part to make Kitty shine as a devious problem-solver, so they threw Gregson under the bus for her. And I want to think more of the writers than that.

 

And I feel like they also wanted to hit the point about his daughter being able to solve her own problems and not wanting/needing anyone else's help, but that didn't happen either because it was just Kitty who solved her problem instead of Gregson. So what was the point of that?

[thuganomics85]

An episode without Joan?  Interesting choice.  Is there a reason for this, or did Lucy Liu just want more time off?

 

Couldn't get into the Gregson stuff, because it really felt out-of-character for him.  I guess they might have been going with the idea that his daughter getting abused just set him off, but I would think he could have taken a better approach to handling the abuser.  As mentioned above, pull some strings and use his power/influence, to get him transferred and/or look into his abusive past.  Or, hell, if he really just wanted to knock the guy around, I would think Gregson would know better then to attack him right in front of everyone.

 

Still, I guess I did like the idea that it focused on the Gregson/Kitty bond, and the idea that they would have a connection, since he knows about her past.  Their stuff was cool, and Kitty helping out seemed in character for her.  I guess we'll never know what she said, but the guy seemed pretty nervous, so it must have been threatening.

 

The case of the week didn't grab me.  The highlight of the episode was the experiments Sherlock was doing with Clyde.  More Clyde, please!

[johntfs]

I'm totally on board with Kitty, she's great. But I'm not buying Captain Gregson's storyline. He finds out his daughter's partner (in both senses) was abusing her, and his response was to punch the guy in front of everyone with no explanation and no rationale? That is a reaction that is not going to solve a problem, but rather make it substantially worse for everyone involved, mostly through the rampant speculation it would generate. I mean, he's a captain. This guy's an officer! Surely he has connections, strings he can pull, power and authority he can abuse to have the guy transferred out of his daughter's life, or other previous instances of violence he can unearth to get the guy fired or disciplined... that could have actually been an interesting mini-arc for the captain! Instead, his reaction was so inflammatory that when he talked about the indignity of having to shake the guy's hand, or the pain of his daughter having to see him every single day, all I could think was that it was kind of his fault for blowing up and taking some actual, practical solutions off the table. And I want to think more of the captain than that.

 

Then again, I suppose it was really a move on the writers' part to make Kitty shine as a devious problem-solver, so they threw Gregson under the bus for her. And I want to think more of the writers than that.

 

And I feel like they also wanted to hit the point about his daughter being able to solve her own problems and not wanting/needing anyone else's help, but that didn't happen either because it was just Kitty who solved her problem instead of Gregson. So what was the point of that?

 

One of the main themes of this show is consequences.  When people fuck up on this show, there are consequences for them.  I have no trouble believing that Thomas Gregson could feel an irresistable urge to punch the man who abused his daughter.  I have no trouble believing that his daughter, a driven rookie cop who wants to follow in her father's path, would prefer to endure working with her abuser than to have the rest of the force consider her to be the captain's little baby girl who needs her daddy to save her.  As for Kitty, she likes Gregson, sympathizes with his daughter and has no pity in her soul for those who would abuse women.  I can easily see her taking any number of steps to terrify the abusive partner into quitting the force and fleeing to Hobokan.

 

And there may well be consequences for that.

Edited November 28, 2014 by johntfs

[roseha]

It was an interesting episode, though I was distracted as soon as I saw the corrupt attorney representing the weight lifter. I'm sure that was Leslie Hendrix, ME Rogers of the Law and Order franchise!  She has an unmistakable voice. 

To be honest I was also distracted by Watson being out of the episode; I thought she'd show up for the end at least.  Sherlock made a big deal to Kitty out of Joan having written about him, then decides to forget it?  There seems to be a lot he's not telling Watson.

I hope this Kitty arc is going somewhere, at this point I don't know what the point is unless to reflect on the Holmes/Watson relationship, or alter it down the road.

Edited November 28, 2014 by roseha

[Slovenly Muse]

Is it wrong of me to wonder if the character of Kitty was brought in because the writers knew they'd need to do at least one episode this season without Watson, and they wanted to line up a plucky stand-in?

 

It's probably wrong of me, isn't it.  It's wrong of me.

 

Actually, I like Kitty, and I can see why she was introduced. What I've always loved about this show is the way Holmes and Watson are good for each other. Working together, Holmes has helped Watson to step outside the cycle of guilt and fear that kept her in a job that didn't fulfil her and into a career she loves passionately. He basically helped her get her life back. And at the same time, she helped him through a dark period of his drug addiction and caused him to form real human connections to people who formed connections to him right back. She basically helped him to be a person. So they've been good for each other, and helped each other to shine. But by the end of the last season, that dynamic was stretched about as much as it could be, and it makes sense to shake things up with Kitty. Sort of. Now, it seems like Watson is helping Holmes to be a compassionate mentor, something that is not going to come naturally to him. And Holmes is helping Kitty to excel in a field she loves and take control of her life by equipping her with the skills she needs to be excellent at whatever she chooses to do with her future. The problem is, it's not really a closed loop, because Watson seems to have it all figured out, and doesn't really need either of them, except for Holmes' expertise and friendship, and that makes her kind of the third wheel. So I am hoping that wherever they are going with Kitty will end up somehow restoring the equilibrium of their previous relationship while at the same time taking it in new directions, because that really is what this show does best.

 

johntfs, I like your thoughts about consequences. I still think Gregson's behaviour was inexcusably out of character, but I see how the themes they set up were played out. Unfortunately, it all hinged on Gregson making an outrageously dumb decision, and I just can't get past it!

[possibilities]

Why does Clyde shock Kitty and ring the bell for Sherlock? I was starting to really like her, but my loyalty to Clyde causes me to wonder.

 

Kitty is much less deferential than Joan and I find it interesting that she stands up to him the way she does, even destroying the laptop, and he seems completely comfortable with it. I think Joan tried to "be the bigger person" and in some ways set an example for him. Kitty just matches his rogue behavior with a rogue attitude herself. It's an interesting contrast. Of course, I doubt Kitty could have helped Sherlock stay sober, so it's not like Joan didn't have a point. But Kitty is an interesting challenge for him, in a way that Joan was more of a support. In a way, I think Kitty does seem like a beloved child for him, where Joan was more of a peer. I don';t imagine Sherlock going into Kitty's bedroom and throwing his choice of clothing onto her bed, expecting her to wake up and dress while he waits. I'm only sorry there's been no sign of Alfredo. And I also wonder what happened to Sherlock's sponsee-- when Holmes ran off to London with little notice, that I'm sure put a damper on the progress of that relationship, but still-- it's a loose end. But my resistance to Kitty has eroded with this episode. I like that she's smart, and funny, and somewhat independent.

[Danielg342]

No Watson? Pretty surprised...thought I'd see her at the end, but no dice. Perhaps that's why the episode brought her up almost every every scene, to make up for her absence. I'm also guessing Sherlock read her book, which is why he was glowing at the end and had a massive change of heart about that non-disclosure agreement.

Thought the case was good. I pegged the store worker as the guy who did it right from the minute I saw him...I'm not sure why (I think because he was a bit too in awe of Josef Shapiro)...but, at this stage, for me it's all about the journey not the destination and while the plot was elaborate it made sense and it was well executed. Especially that last scene with the confession...time's a wastin', PhD student with the Burberry belt.

I was also convinced the woman at the start of the show would turn out to be the victim (thanks Criminal Minds for that), so it was a great misdirect to see her discover the hand.

Pretty good episode too for Marcus Bell and Thomas Gregson...I feel they hardly get any focus anymore so it was great to see them have some great, quality work. I do wish this episode had Bell contributing clues himself and didn't just always go along with what Sherlock said, but I'll take what I can get.

Lastly...the subplot with Gregson's daughter...I like that Kitty took it upon herself to fix the situation but I couldn't help but think the solution was extremely condescending (on the writer's part). Hanna stated, time and again, that she didn't want Gregson's help and that she didn't want to always be a victim and thus be able to face her attacker every day just so he knew he didn't get to her and the show provides a cop out (no pun intended). I get that facing your attacker is often traumatizing and getting past that kind of trauma takes a lot of help, but I think it would have been a far better message to actually see Hanna go face to face with Stotz, look him square in the eye with a look that says "you didn't get me"; complete with Stotz looking downtrodden and remorseful. Without trying to get into a wider discussion about violence against women, far too often I see online people treating victims as if they need to be "coddled" and "protected" all the time, essentially telling them that they're weak and keeping them in a "victim" mindset when I think it's the wrong approach. Those who commit abuse are doing it for the power, and victims continuing to see themselves as a victim means the abuser keeps his power over the victim. This isn't to say that victims and their stories shouldn't be treated with anything less than the utmost dignity, but I think we need to start telling victims to be courageous and do what they need to do to get past their trauma. Hanna going face to face with her accuser would do that...the show getting Kitty to find some way to evict Stotz does the opposite.

(Perhaps one could say that Hanna isn't as strong as she looks, but what does that say about her? That she's not a grown woman and always needs someone to hold her hand? Please...I'd like to think the show would have a better view of women than that)

Overall, pretty good. Not sure if it's at Season 1 levels yet but still good...and one day I'd like to read the Casebook of Sherlock Holmes. :P

[GaT]

An episode without Joan?  Interesting choice.  Is there a reason for this, or did Lucy Liu just want more time off?

 

 

Is it wrong of me to wonder if the character of Kitty was brought in because the writers knew they'd need to do at least one episode this season without Watson, and they wanted to line up a plucky stand-in?

 

 

Is there any information as to why Joan wasn't on this week? I'm really curious, is she going to be missing for more episodes? Having Kitty (who I've warmed up to) on the show would make sense now, though I'm still having trouble understanding her sometimes. 

[KAOS Agent]

The plot with Gregson and his daughter was upsetting in that he ultimately gave in and shook the guy's hand. I understood Hannah's point about dealing with it herself, but the truth was that she wasn't go to deal with her abuser in a way that would keep him from doing it to someone else. She was a victim, but in trying to cover it up and deal with her own issues with the guy, he faced no consequences. How would Hannah feel to get a call about the next woman he abused? It wasn't right. That Kitty came in and got him to leave the force was good, but he's still free to go beat up some other woman.

 

I thought the murder mystery was overly complex and not at all compelling, but I was delighted with the Clyde experiments. I'm glad Sherlock has custody of Clyde while Joan is having her Danish adventure. 

[miles2go]

I'm feeling a little guilty about this, but I didn't miss Watson at all.  Go Kitty!

 

Crime-of-the-week was meh, but I did like the Gregson story line.  I concur with those who think his behavior seems out of character (on the other hand, men can sometimes be very protective of their daughters.)  

 

Daniel, The Casebook of Sherlock Holmes is probably available at your local library. Of course, it's not TV Watson's version, but Conan Doyle's. (And not his best work.)

[roomtorome]

I didn't miss LL's deadly "acting" at all - she bores me to death and her elevation in the early part of this season really put me off and made me even more thankful for the fast forward function on my dvr than ever.  Not a huge fan of the Kitty person but, for me, she's more tolerable than this show's version of Watson.  Can't believe they couldn't find a Watson that had some energy in their acting style - and, I'm still befuddled at JLM's new physicality this season - can't wrap my head around the way he stands - what is going on there?  

 

My gut tells me they wanted/needed to do something to focus on Gregson so they went with this plot - maybe it will reappear (in a bad way) later on - it just seemed very shoehorned in and maybe too to establish even more of a connection with Kitty - don't know, don't care.

 

What a mess.

[Eneya]

I didn't miss LL's deadly "acting" at all - she bores me to death and her elevation in the early part of this season really put me off and made me even more thankful for the fast forward function on my dvr than ever.  Not a huge fan of the Kitty person but, for me, she's more tolerable than this show's version of Watson.  Can't believe they couldn't find a Watson that had some energy in their acting style - and, I'm still befuddled at JLM's new physicality this season - can't wrap my head around the way he stands - what is going on there?  

 

My gut tells me they wanted/needed to do something to focus on Gregson so they went with this plot - maybe it will reappear (in a bad way) later on - it just seemed very shoehorned in and maybe too to establish even more of a connection with Kitty - don't know, don't care.

 

What a mess.

I am a bit surprised... it is completely intentional... they used Watson as a way to stabilize Holmes. His wild, energetic, all-out is balanced by her calm, composed demanour, she is cool but not because she has no passion but because being a surgeon requires someone who controls himself... she goes even further in controling herself and her actions/emotions due to her work with people with addiction... I am surpsised how often women who act more composed and a bit distanced get pegged as boring, icy and so forth but male characters get a lot more positive descriptions and interpretations. I think it is sombined with the idea for the "emotional woman" and "rational/composed man"... it is a bit grating.

[Driad]

 

Can someone please explain what they were doing with Clyde? 

[theatremouse]

I think it was a riff on a common experiment done with mice where there are two, basically, devices they can use to dispense food to themselves. One, I think, usually delivers a (minor) shock but they get the food right away vs something more difficult/complicated but also results in food and does not hurt.

 

It seemed like Sherlock said he was trying to assess empathy in tortoises? So the spin in this one was rather than the shock option shocking the animal in the course, it shocked the human, ie Kitty. So the premise was essentially: with Sherlock (and possibly Watson?) Clyde rang the bell to get food. But he was shocking Kitty. Which sort of jokingly implies he doesn't like her was purposefully hurting her as long as it resulted in him being fed.

 

At least that's what I thought the gist was.

Edited November 28, 2014 by theatremouse

[Trey]

That was what I got from it too, theatremouse.  It's good to have confirmation.

 

I hate to say it, but I didn't really miss Watson either.  I would be very upset if she left the show (I know nothing, I'm just saying) but one episode without her and Kitty pretty much taking her place was fine with me.

[CommanderKira]

Does anybody know the name of the actor who played the South African suspect that didn't do it? Can't find the info on IMDB.

[paigow]

It was an interesting episode, though I was distracted as soon as I saw the corrupt attorney representing the weight lifter. I'm sure that was Leslie Hendrix, ME Rogers of the Law and Order franchise!  She has an unmistakable voice.

Ha! It was the blonde hair and absence of Lennie Briscoe...I thought Erin Strauss had been resurrected.

[DrLar]

Love you Kitty but you know pouring liquid to a laptop won't erase the files? right?

 

I guess she didn't have a sledge hammer handy to destroy the hard drive hehe.

 

Was that Store about Gregson came out of the blue? I didn't even know he had a daughter and that she was a cop in the same precinct!

[Helena Dax]

The plot with Gregson and his daughter was upsetting in that he ultimately gave in and shook the guy's hand. I understood Hannah's point about dealing with it herself, but the truth was that she wasn't go to deal with her abuser in a way that would keep him from doing it to someone else. She was a victim, but in trying to cover it up and deal with her own issues with the guy, he faced no consequences. How would Hannah feel to get a call about the next woman he abused? It wasn't right. That Kitty came in and got him to leave the force was good, but he's still free to go beat up some other woman.

 

 

Yeah, I don't  get it either. It's like we didn't see her thinking about his future victims and since she's a cop,  it seems  that's something she should have kept in mind. Instead, she just talked about her chances of climbing the ladder. 

 

I didn't miss Joan at all. In fact, I think her absence was the reason I enjoyed this episode so much. I find Kitty to be way more interesting and I really like her relationship with Sherlock.

 

I laughed when Sherlock made that guy punch himself.

[roomtorome]

This has zero to do with "Watson" being a woman (my feeling she is dull) - it is a style of acting I find deadly regardless of gender.  There are plenty of male actors I feel similarly about.  No need to make this about something it is not.  I have never, personally, found anything remotely interesting about LL's acting - in anything I've seen her in.  I always drift off as she never captures my attention.  

 

For the record, I don't much care for JLM's performance here either with all the mumbling - I get it is mostly the directors' choices but with JLM at least, I've seen him in a few things to know his performances deviate from each other vs LL's style - my opinion only, of course.

Edited November 28, 2014 by roomtorome

[Slovenly Muse]

 

The plot with Gregson and his daughter was upsetting in that he ultimately gave in and shook the guy's hand. I understood Hannah's point about dealing with it herself, but the truth was that she wasn't go to deal with her abuser in a way that would keep him from doing it to someone else. She was a victim, but in trying to cover it up and deal with her own issues with the guy, he faced no consequences. How would Hannah feel to get a call about the next woman he abused? It wasn't right. That Kitty came in and got him to leave the force was good, but he's still free to go beat up some other woman.

So much this. When she was talking to him about it, and he was criticizing her solution (because his was SO much better) and saying "you know how many of these guys I've put away?" I wanted to shout at the screen, "SO HAS SHE! SHE'S A COP TOO!" It was so patronizing of him to think that she didn't know the situation she was in, or didn't have the experience to figure her own way out of it. And there was no consideration for this guy's future victims. They both completely failed as problem solvers. And whatever Kitty said or did, it probably won't be enough to protect people from him in the future. This whole plot seemed really half thought-out. It was like they wanted to use it because it was relevant to Kitty's experiences and they wanted to give her an important problem she could help with, but then they made too many cuts to logic and characterization to make it work effectively.

 

It's nice to see Clyde back, chewing the scenery as usual!

[shapeshifter]

Can someone please explain what they were doing with Clyde?

I think it was a riff on a common experiment done with mice where there are two, basically, devices they can use to dispense food to themselves. One, I think, usually delivers a (minor) shock but they get the food right away vs something more difficult/complicated but also results in food and does not hurt.

 

It seemed like Sherlock said he was trying to assess empathy in tortoises? So the spin in this one was rather than the shock option shocking the animal in the course, it shocked the human, ie Kitty. So the premise was essentially: with Sherlock (and possibly Watson?) Clyde rang the bell to get food. But he was shocking Kitty. Which sort of jokingly implies he doesn't like her was purposefully hurting her as long as it resulted in him being fed.

 

At least that's what I thought the gist was.

But a turtle couldn't possibly know it was doing something that shocked someone, could it? And shouldn't Kitty know that?

[theatremouse]

But a turtle couldn't possibly know it was doing something that shocked someone, could it?

I don't know. Isn't that the point of doing an experiment? To find out? If tortoises can hear (and I'm fairly certain it's a tortoise not a turtle) then presumably one can understand sounds of pain from other animals? I think that'd sort of be the test.

 

Or one of the writers just thought it'd be funny.

[MaryHedwig]

I want to know what she said to Stotz.

Maybe she threatened to throw acid on his face (referring to Kitty in canon.)

 

But I'm not buying Captain Gregson's storyline. He finds out his daughter's partner (in both senses) was abusing her, and his response was to punch the guy in front of everyone with no explanation and no rationale?

I agree, but then again, I never bought Gregson punching Sherlock in the stomach so maybe there's a part of Gregson I just do not want to accept.

 

 

Then again, I suppose it was really a move on the writers' part to make Kitty shine as a devious problem-solver, so they threw Gregson under the bus for her.

Are we supposed to believe the Sherlock had no idea of any of that: Gregson's action? the perpetrator partner?  Kitty's involvement?  heck, does he even know that Gregson has a daughter on the force?  Was Sherlock knowing (and approving) of Kitty's invention the reason he empowered her by tearing up the contract?  By the way, they played the same tug-at-your-heart kind of music in the scene right before the dialogue started.  And I got my "Sherlock is really a caring human" fix that I mostly got before from final Sherlock/Watson scenes.  It made me wonder if all this time I have been watching this show because of JLM and not JLM/LL.

 

 

Why does Clyde shock Kitty and ring the bell for Sherlock?

Why is Kitty putting herself in a position where she is being abused, by a turtle no less?  Why is Sherlock setting up an experiment where there was the potential for Kitty to get abused?  Kitty has had to tolerate the abuse of enough psychopaths for one lifetime.  Kitty, go ask your support group what they think of you getting paid to be abused for a living.  Don't mention at first that "Clyde" is a turtle, the species variable may initially confused them.

 

I think Kitty does seem like a beloved child for him, where Joan was more of a peer. I don't imagine Sherlock going into Kitty's bedroom and throwing his choice of clothing onto her bed, expecting her to wake up and dress while he waits.

Well he did go in to her room and put a new laptop on her bed so boundary violations continue.  Again, not a good thing for someone recovering from boundary-violation trauma.  Referring to your "beloved" comment, I wondered if Sherlock took on caring for Kitty because his attempts to care for another (alleged) abuse victim, Irene, blew up in his face.  He was primed to care for Irene for life if needed and might not have ever gotten that caring urge out of his system. 

 

Back to a previous episode, I am also disturbed that Sherlock handcuffed Kitty and left her alone in the basement.  I get the training but she doesn't seem ready a situation like that where she is completely without control.

 

Is Sherlock now celibate?  Is that because he knows that Kitty can not handle that kind of sex traffic through the Brownstone right now?

Edited November 29, 2014 by MaryHedwig

[Slovenly Muse]

 

I am also disturbed that Sherlock handcuffed Kitty and left her alone in the basement.  I get the training she doesn't seem ready for situation like that where she is without control.

 

Is Sherlock now celibate?  Is that because he knows that Kitty can not handle that kind of sex traffic right now?

Remember that Kitty left home and changed her name because she was tired of being seen as and treated like a victim. She wants people to treat her like they don't know what she's been through. She has been very vocal (in this episode especially) about not wanting to be perceived as damaged, and not wanting to be at the mercy of what other people assume she's capable of, or ready for, or too traumatized to do. Sherlock is helping her by teaching her the skills she needs to excel in their field. To be truly respectful of her trauma and her boundaries, the absolute best thing he can do is respect her stated wishes, treat her like he would anyone else, and trust her to let him know if they're approaching a line that can't be crossed. Otherwise, she may as well have stayed in London.

 

Hee! Now I'm picture Clyde as a very slow-moving psychopath. "Let me out of this drawer! I'll bite your kneecaps!"

[shapeshifter]

...If tortoises can hear (and I'm fairly certain it's a tortoise not a turtle) then presumably one can understand sounds of pain from other animals? I think that'd sort of be the test....

Good point, and from tortoisegroup.org/faq.php:

Can tortoises hear?

Yes. Very well.

So maybe the purpose of the "experiment" is for Kitty to relearn to express pain? If she was abused not by a stranger, but by someone she lived with, she likely was "trained" to not express feelings that made her abuser feel guilty.

[Texasmom1970]

Loved Clyde, Gregson and Bell. I am the minority here but I am still not feeling the love for Kitty. She is tolerable but I quite like the juxtaposition of Sherlock and Watson's personalities. Maybe Kitty will grow on me as time goes on who knows.

[Jlina]

Thing is, I don't want to watch Kitty be the victimzer of victims nor bullies now, which is what she basically had to be in some manner to get that guy to back off.

 

I was surprised Gregson's daughter came out of nowhere, and think he's way more prone to physical violence than it seems most expect.  Hell, I think Tom Selleck may have even lost it on Blue Bloods with that.

 

BUT....the fact that the daughter REMAINS a victim, with basically someone else doing the work she should have done, stinks.  Joan would have taught her how to deal I think...that's the Joan/Kitty difference. 

 

It would be my preference that the daughter manage to get his ass out of there on her own, or even dealt with him daily - being there to take him down the next time it happened.  (There's always a next time.)

 

JLM's jerkiness of movement and shortness of hair are in very stark contrast to last season's getting off the floor hands free and gracefullness.  I hate it - and can't figure out why they've done it.

 

Where are the bees?  His peace of mind?

Edited November 29, 2014 by Jlina

[jeansheridan]

That was an awkwardly written show. Or badly editted. Aiden Quinn deserves better.

I didn't miss Watson at all. Kitty kind of rocks. And I love spazzy Sherlock.

I wish Hannah had been a better actress too. She reminded me of Dexter' s sister. Deb. Stiff and maybe tomboyish. She bugged.

[MaryHedwig]

I wish Hannah had been a better actress too.

Who is this actress?  Are they going to make daughter Gregson a regular?  It seems that they are obliged to now that we know she is on the force.  If so, we seemed to be "stuck" with this actress for the duration of the show.

 

In my opinion, a much more interesting storyline would have been a reoccurring role for Gregson's ex-wife.  What if she had become a rookie cop to experience first hand why the NYPD destroyed her marriage? Or what if they borrowed from Hill Street Blues and make her a prosecutor, continuing questioning the legality of any case involvement Sherlock and his methods, such as unlawful entry and search without a warrant?  Now that George Clooney is finally married (she was his first wife) and she is no longer on Homeland (she died there in a building that blew up), she should have the time on her hands to show up here once in a while.

Edited November 29, 2014 by MaryHedwig

[thuganomics85]

 

Who is this actress?  Are they going to make daughter Gregson a regular?  It seems that they are obliged to now that we know she is on the force.  If so, we seemed to be "stuck" with this actress for the duration of the show.

According to IMDB, her name is Liza J. Bennett.  From what I can tell, she's mainly done small roles in various things like Person of Interest, The Leftovers, and 12 Years A Slave.  Right now, it says she's only in this episode, but I guess there could be more in the future.  

 

She didn't leave a huge impression (granted, that could have just been because I wasn't all that interested in this story), but I agree with the poster above that she did remind me a bit of Deb/Jennifer Carpenter from Dexter. Without the nonstop profanity, of course.

Edited November 29, 2014 by thuganomics85

[CaptainCranky]

But I'm not buying Captain Gregson's storyline. He finds out his daughter's partner (in both senses) was abusing her, and his response was to punch the guy in front of everyone with no explanation and no rationale? That is a reaction that is not going to solve a problem, but rather make it substantially worse for everyone involved, mostly through the rampant speculation it would generate. I mean, he's a captain. This guy's an officer! Surely he has connections, strings he can pull, power and authority he can abuse to have the guy transferred out of his daughter's life, or other previous instances of violence he can unearth to get the guy fired or disciplined... that could have actually been an interesting mini-arc for the captain! Instead, his reaction was so inflammatory that when he talked about the indignity of having to shake the guy's hand, or the pain of his daughter having to see him every single day, all I could think was that it was kind of his fault for blowing up and taking some actual, practical solutions off the table. And I want to think more of the captain than that.

 

 

Then you don't have a daughter. I consider myself to be a sane male and if someone abused my daughter I'd try to kick his ass.

[shapeshifter]

Then you don't have a daughter. I consider myself to be a sane male and if someone abused my daughter I'd try to kick his ass.

Considering that Gregson carries a gun, his response was relatively restrained.

[MaryHedwig]

Considering that Gregson carries a gun, his response was relatively restrained.

Can't bring up the references now but I am sure that Gregson has admonished others on the force who have taken the law into their own hands.  I half-remember a dialog where he said something like, "I would want to kill the guy too but I stop myself because I carry a badge and I expect my staff to do the same..." 

 

 

I got lost in the back story dialog between Gregson and his daughter.  Was this her partner?  Did they have a romantic relationship that turned violent?  What was the reference to two times about?  Did he rape her or was he physically violent?  How did Tommy find out?

 

Not revealed but where is Momma Gregson in all this?  Isn't there also a son?  Are we recreating Blue Bloods here (with family members on the same force?)  Is Reagan Gregson's boss?  If so, why doesn't Reagan use Sherlock department-wide?  What I would give to see Sherlock at the Reagan Sunday dinner.  (I know this sounds like wild thinking but both shows are on CBS and set in New York.)

Edited December 2, 2014 by MaryHedwig

[theatremouse]

Was this her partner?  Did they have a romantic relationship that turned violent?  What was the reference to two times about?

Yes, yes and he hit her on two occasions was my take on it. I don't think they were intending to imply sexual assault in this scenario.

 

Gregson found out because she told him. She said as much in the episode. But apparently she told him because she "had to tell someone" and expected him to do absolutely nothing, in either his capacity as an officer of the law or his capacity as her father with a violent temper. Or it was that thing where she was brave enough to tell someone and then immediately regretted it and wanted to backtrack, which fits exactly the trope she kept complaining she did not fit.

Edited November 29, 2014 by theatremouse

[Danielg342]

First of all, I think the Hannah Gregson story should have made up an entire episode, or at least a multi-story arc instead of being “neatly” wrapped up at the end. There was a nice story for exploring- just exactly why Hannah wanted to handle things by herself and not have Papa come to her rescue- and the show dropped the ball. Badly. Because what we were left with is a story that says:

-What the victim wants doesn't matter

-The perpetrator basically got to walk free without any real justice for his crime

...and I find both concepts very troubling; this could have all been avoided if the show had bothered to do some exploration instead of just relying on what the Gregsons were telling us.

The central question behind the subplot- as I see it- is just why Hannah wanted to keep things “under wraps” and felt the need to “appear strong” in front of the rest of the force. Perhaps- as is probably likely in real life- there's a culture of “machismo” that dictates that cops settle scores with their fists and would look down on Hannah for not doing the same thing. Maybe then Thomas could have heard what happened to Hannah and asked Sherlock and Kitty to investigate it covertly. Maybe Hannah could have been investigating Stotz herself and Kitty, recognizing what it's like to be an assault victim, offers to help, with Sherlock simply supporting Kitty's investigation. Maybe this ends with the reveal that Stotz has a history of violence on the force and gets arrested for that history, with a PSA by Thomas at the end reminding his troops that “we beat the perps up, not each other.” Or maybe this ends with the reveal that Stotz also beats up his wife or significant other and gets arrested for that.

That's just me spinning my wheels. Point is, I think we were owed a better explained story than what we got.

[Trey]

If you are assaulted and do nothing about it, then you are a victim.  If Hannah had laid charges against Stotz then she would not have been a victim or have been perceived as a victim.  I agree, we were short changed on this story line.

[MaryHedwig]

If you are assaulted and do nothing about it, then you are a victim.  If Hannah had laid charges against Stotz then she would not have been a victim or have been perceived as a victim.  I agree, we were short changed on this story line.

The more I think about this story, the more uneasy I get.  I agree that Hannah is moving down a bad path and, of course so is Stotz.  Maybe I have been giving too much credit to Gregson (for shaking Stotz' hand) and Kitty (for talking to both Gregson and Stotz).  Maybe there were no clear minds or wise choices here at all.  Maybe all of this is going to bode badly for at least three of them (we already know that Kitty is on a shaky path.)

 

Why didn't Sherlock figure out that his help was needed here?  Why didn't Bell step in?  Is this what happens to New York City when Joan leaves the country for a few days?

[DeLurker]

I think Joan tried to "be the bigger person" and in some ways set an example for him. Kitty just matches his rogue behavior with a rogue attitude .<snip>In a way, I think Kitty does seem like a beloved child for him, where Joan was more of a peer.

I never got the impression Joan was trying to set an example for him - I think her coping skills are more mature than his and she wasn't easily baited.

Hannah's abuse story missed so much potential as others have noted, but also DV by cops is a real life problem so it not being addressed by Greggson is a total fail on the writers part. And who knew he had a kid? Or a kid on the force?

[Primetimer]

Al Lowe finally gets a clue about Elementary's newest team member.

Read the story

[kenmay139]

This episode probably has more to do with Lucy Liu than anything else. <br />There are articles on the Internet saying Lucy Liu is dating and practically engaged to an Israeli billionaire. Since she no longer really needs the money, perhaps she decided to go for broke and demanded a huge raise in exchange for continuing in the role of Watson and the producers of Elementary are calling her bluff by bringing in a competing actor and excluding Lucy Liu from an episode. Does anybody remember the Three's Company/Suzanne Somers fiasco?

[basil]

Is Sherlock now celibate?  Is that because he knows that Kitty can not handle that kind of sex traffic through the Brownstone right now?

 

Sherlock's sex life often takes place outside of the brownstone. Given that he views sex as something that has to happen in order for him to function normally, I doubt he's gone celibate. He's just taken it elsewhere.

 

This episode probably has more to do with Lucy Liu than anything else. <br />There are articles on the Internet saying Lucy Liu is dating and practically engaged to an Israeli billionaire. Since she no longer really needs the money, perhaps she decided to go for broke and demanded a huge raise in exchange for continuing in the role of Watson and the producers of Elementary are calling her bluff by bringing in a competing actor and excluding Lucy Liu from an episode.

 

 

I don't follow this. If Lui no longer needs the money, why would she ask for more? If she wants out, she can just break the contract and pay the price. I think it's more likely she either has another project in the works (she's involved in a great many charities and probably has time off written into her contract) or just wanted to work less hours. She seems to enjoy working on the show and is stretching her wings a bit by directing.

 

I love that Kitty resolved the abusive partner problem but left how she did it a mystery. 

 

Does anybody remember the Three's Company/Suzanne Somers fiasco?

 

 

I know there are those who don't think much of Lui as an actress, but even so, Somers and Lui are nowhere near on the same playing field. Somers seriously overestimated her worth, imo. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by basil

[basiltherat]

Pouring pop (soda) on the laptop is SO something that Joan would have done -- calmly and with no fanfare, so Kitty has leaned from Joan.  I viewed that as a shout-out.