Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

[Muffyn]

Wanderwoman, two key points:  1) My family could be an entire season of Maury combined with the worst of the Real Housewives.  2) I am having a lot of construction done on my house.  The tile guy has fallen behind because his son is sick.  The foreman finally told me about it.  I told him I understand.  In fact, I would lose respect for him of he stayed here putting in grout while his son is being taken in for tests (they have to take him to a different city for specialists – shades of Maisie).  Of course he needs to be there.  I then told the team about your husband.  Just now that there is a whole team of (very attractive) construction guys that are ready to kick his ass.  While it has been crazy around here, I have to say how happy I am to be around so many good fathers.  I wish they could sit your husband down and get through to him.

[MarysWetBar]

There's an interesting chapter in the book "Freakanomics" about names (it covers naming trends across all races & socio-economic groups and the impacts they have on the individual). Just adding a link here if you're interested.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2005/04/a_roshanda_by_any_other_name.html

I loved that book!

[Liz Tudor]

I'm thinking this is why so many comedy routines are based on life in the south. We make up our own sitcoms as we go along.

Lewis Grizzard (bless his soul) would be so damn proud!

Edited because I remembered, an hour or so after posting, that I had misspelled his first name, shame on me!

Edited October 13, 2015 by Liz Tudor

[MarysWetBar]

I have been following this thread for a little while and wanted to jump in and share my story and give whatever support I can to wanderwoman. I had a 25 week gestation girl in 2009. She stayed in the Level III NICU for 11 months (she had an APGAR of 0 when she was born) and was ventilated, CPAPed, and came home on oxygen. She finally came home on 9 medications and was very medically fragile. One of them was viagra that relieved her pulmonary hypertension. Getting insurance to approve this drug for an infant girl (which she would have died without) was like tilting at windmills. But we finally had a very persistent pharmacy tech that called on my behalf and finally got the approval for me. It took days and days and days of phone calls. They try to wear you down so you will give up.

She got a cold the first week she was home that put her back on a ventilator and landed her in the hospital for 3 days. That was her last hospital trip. We got a catheter suction machine and I sucked the snot out of her face on a daily basis so she could breath. Fast forward, she is breathing on her own and is a very active but very developmentally disabled and autistic little girl.

She received the monthly Synergis shots during RSV season. It was covered through my husband's insurance at work. Any baby born before 28 weeks and was given oxygen therapy is covered by most major insurance companies. Medicaid also covers it.

I am fortunate to live in Houston which has every specialist under the sun. She was born at a children's hospital and now is being seen by a specialty clinic that has all the -ologists under one roof so that it gives her coordinated care. The left hand knows what the right hand is doing. Most importantly, there is a social worker on staff that is wonderful. Trying to navigate insurance and figure out how to pay for the mounting medical bills and therapies is very difficult to do on your own. I am a researcher and I was finding it difficult to navigate the information. Sometimes the information is buried fifteen layers deep on a non-user friendly government website. A social worker knows about programs and services and you should find one to help you ASAP. Also, you must find a group of plugged in moms. These women will give you information and moral support because they are traveling maybe not the same, but definitely parallel bumpy roads and they have so many answers. Someone knows and you need to tap into that brain trust.

My husband and I are still married and it is very hard. My husband still cries when he thinks about the hospital. Sometimes he has to go into the bathroom stall at work and get himself together. I try not to think about it. My breakdowns have more to do with her future. We are tired all the time. My daughter decided not sleep through the night for about 9 months. I feel like I always have to find the answer to everything, implement everything, problem solve everything. It makes me resentful and unappreciated. But we forge on.

Finding people who will support you with more than "prayers" or liking your Facebook pictures are very hard to find. My in-laws who live in town are useless. My mother who would be very hands on lives 8 hours away. We are finally starting to build a group of supportive friends that will babysit for us and want to get their kids together with my daughter who frankly, does not offer much as far as social interaction. It took us years to get a date night where we could leave our child at home. It is still hard to find babysitters who can handle her, but it is getting better.

Anyway, to conclude this novella, the point is: Get a social worker. Find a support group. Don't be too proud to ask for assistance - public or private. These kids are expensive. You paid into the system and now you need to use some of it. Even if you think that you make too much for Medicaid, there are sliding scale programs and waiver programs in most states that you may be eligible for. You may be "better off" not getting money in your divorce settlement because you will be eligible for more benefits for her.

Please PM me if you have any questions at all. I have a blog that I wrote for the first 3 years that I can share with you if you are interested. It focuses on her medical issues, therapies, developmental milestones and fun times. After that, my daughter's autism behaviors were really starting to present and i was too busy and psychologically broken to continue the blog.

eta: Also, if you do get full custody of your child and you are looking for a fresh start and are willing to move...you should consider moving to a state with generous special needs benefits. They vary greatly from state to state. I think all the time about what I would do if something happened to my husband. I am not from Texas and don't particularly like being here. I would have more family support going back to the state I grew up in, but unfortunately I know it would not be in the best interest of my daughter because the benefits, programs, and opportunities are limited for her there.

One more thing and I'll shut up: once your daughter starts school that will be another whole new system to navigate. One where other people are responsible for your child for large chunks of the day and you lose control. And every single thing you want for your daughter has to be documented or they won't do it. And you have to ask for everything because they won't even tell you what is available to her. And you have to constantly check up on them to make sure they are doing what they say they are going to do. My child is non-verbal so she could never tell me about her day and I had limited time to talk to teachers about how she was doing. My daughter was eligible for a preschool program through the public school system at age 3 that she attended for two years before I got fed up and opted for a private school.

Again, I would recommend at that time to take stock of the school system's support for special needs kids and ask as many questions of other parents as you can. I recently read a story about a Downs Syndrome teenager forced to be bussed to a high school an hour away so he can be segregated with all of their other special needs students on one campus (illegal!) So even though it is 2015 you have to watch out for crap like this. So getting to the point, when she gets to pre-school and school age there will be another time to re-evaluate her needs and if you are able, to move into a school district that is the best fit for her.

Wow! What an amazing post. Thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out. I am sure ww will reference that a few times. Also glad you reached out. Sounds like you could use some virtual support too.

HFC you really make me laugh. .everytime. Fuggar indeed.

Re germs...i have worked in health care for years, most of the units having immunocompromised patients.

I have my first cold in almost ten years and i plan to milk every moment of it like a "man" cold.I haven't really eaten in days so decided delivery of some Wor Won Ton soup was in order. But i warned the delivery lady to use her hand sanitizer right away cus I'm sick. I won't leave the house until I'm no longer contagious.

Edited October 13, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[ChocolateAddict]

Compared to everyone else's medical issues this isn't really a big deal but today I'm celebrating being seizure-free for a year!! I'm really happy and it feels like the side-effects and adjusting of the medication was worth it :) 

[Love2dance]

Compared to everyone else's medical issues this isn't really a big deal but today I'm celebrating being seizure-free for a year!! I'm really happy and it feels like the side-effects and adjusting of the medication was worth it :)

So happy for you, CHOCOLATEADDICT. That IS a big deal, and your good news is welcomed. Congratulations and hugs!

[wanderwoman]

Wanderwoman, two key points: 1) My family could be an entire season of Maury combined with the worst of the Real Housewives. 2) I am having a lot of construction done on my house. The tile guy has fallen behind because his son is sick. The foreman finally told me about it. I told him I understand. In fact, I would lose respect for him of he stayed here putting in grout while his son is being taken in for tests (they have to take him to a different city for specialists – shades of Maisie). Of course he needs to be there. I then told the team about your husband. Just now that there is a whole team of (very attractive) construction guys that are ready to kick his ass. While it has been crazy around here, I have to say how happy I am to be around so many good fathers. I wish they could sit your husband down and get through to him.

Any of them single?

:)

I'm kidding.

Edited October 13, 2015 by wanderwoman

[Tabbygirl521]

I remember there was a lot of ignorance when Amandla Stenberg burst into the showbiz scene, with people going, "LOL her parents are the worst, why couldn't they just name her Amanda like ~normal people?" Turns out that "amandla" is actually a Zulu word meaning "power."

I've most likely lost out on job opportunities thanks to my name, which is distinctly foreign (Asian), looks intimidating to non-Asians, and might peg me as an ESL immigrant. I was actually born and raised in California, but the common thing for second generation Asian-Americans is to have a westernized given name. My family was the only one I knew of where we (the kids) went by our Asian names. I've actually thought about changing the name on my resume to my middle name, which is more western-friendly. I feel resentful about having to pander to ignorant people, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I hope you don't change your name. My mom's family was from Greece. They had their surname watered down and AmericanIzed when they came to the US. There was a fair amount of prejudice against Greek immigrants (1920s and '30s). She was born in the US but her given name was Greek, and unusual. She was dubbed with an "American" name that she never liked and in later years she more or less switched back. I am not sure she ever felt totally "herself" with the altered names. And more, as her kid, I feel like I somehow lost out on certain nuances of my heritage.

So I say, I hope you can ignore the ignorant and carry on. And not that it's your job to fix anyone but with luck, some of the ignorant will learn a thing or two by becoming acquainted with you.

[galax-arena]

I hope you don't change your name. My mom's family was from Greece. They had their surname watered down and AmericanIzed when they came to the US. There was a fair amount of prejudice against Greek immigrants (1920s and '30s). She was born in the US but her given name was Greek, and unusual. She was dubbed with an "American" name that she never liked and in later years she more or less switched back. I am not sure she ever felt totally "herself" with the altered names. And more, as her kid, I feel like I somehow lost out on certain nuances of my heritage.

So I say, I hope you can ignore the ignorant and carry on. And not that it's your job to fix anyone but with luck, some of the ignorant will learn a thing or two by becoming acquainted with you.

I wouldn't permanently/legally change my name. Even though I dislike my name for other reasons, it's still my name. I did try to go by my American middle name for a brief period in junior high and it never felt right. But it's just very discouraging to think that I'm not being given a fair shake because my name isn't whitebread. I'd like to at least put my middle name on my resume to get my foot in the door, so to speak. Maybe after getting hired, I could say, "By the way, I go by [Korean name]. Call me that or perish, sweater monkeys!"

 

(No? That wouldn't work? Back to the drawing board.)

And not that it's your job to fix anyone but with luck, some of the ignorant will learn a thing or two by becoming acquainted with you.

I did have this hopefully educational conversation with my boss a couple of years ago. I was talking about a trip to New Zealand I was planning, and we exchanged the following words:

 

Boss: "So you're going to come back from New Zealand with an accent?"

Me: "Haha, maybe!"

Boss: "Yeah, that'd be really funny, this Oriental girl coming back with a New Zealand accent."

 

I hesitantly pointed out that he should probably not refer to Asian people as Orientals anymore and explained that it'd be similar to calling a black person a Negro nowadays. To his credit, the boss was mortified and apologized profusely. Then we had the following exchange:

 

Boss: "So then what's the proper word?"

Me: "Asian or Korean is fine."

Boss: "But... doesn't that just refer to the place you're from? I mean, you're not FROM Asia or Korea, you're from America! You're American!"

Me: "Well yeah, but Asian and Korean in this context refer to race and ethnicity, not nationality. So I'm Asian, but I'm also American, which is my nationality. Hence Asian-American."

 

I'm not sure if my boss got it. But in a strange way, his comments showed that he at least didn't think of me as a foreigner, which is something. ("You're from America! You're American!") Still not sure why he thought it'd be hilarious to have an Asian girl speak with a New Zealand accent, though! And while I'm glad that my boss seemed to learn something and at least his heart was in the right place, I was astonished that in this day and age there were still people out there who thought like this. 

[Jellybeans]

Any of them single?

:)

I'm kidding.

You are on your way. :-)

[JenCarroll]

***

I did have this hopefully educational conversation with my boss a couple of years ago. I was talking about a trip to New Zealand I was planning, and we exchanged the following words:

 

Boss: "So you're going to come back from New Zealand with an accent?"

Me: "Haha, maybe!"

Boss: "Yeah, that'd be really funny, this Oriental girl coming back with a New Zealand accent."

 

I hesitantly pointed out that he should probably not refer to Asian people as Orientals anymore and explained that it'd be similar to calling a black person a Negro nowadays. To his credit, the boss was mortified and apologized profusely. Then we had the following exchange:

 

Boss: "So then what's the proper word?"

Me: "Asian or Korean is fine."

Boss: "But... doesn't that just refer to the place you're from? I mean, you're not FROM Asia or Korea, you're from America! You're American!"

Me: "Well yeah, but Asian and Korean in this context refer to race and ethnicity, not nationality. So I'm Asian, but I'm also American, which is my nationality. Hence Asian-American."

 

I'm not sure if my boss got it. But in a strange way, his comments showed that he at least didn't think of me as a foreigner, which is something. ("You're from America! You're American!") Still not sure why he thought it'd be hilarious to have an Asian girl speak with a New Zealand accent, though! And while I'm glad that my boss seemed to learn something and at least his heart was in the right place, I was astonished that in this day and age there were still people out there who thought like this.

I have a friend, a black woman from London living in the U.S., who constantly has people exclaiming over her accent. "But you're Black! How could you be from England?" The mind, it boggles.

[Tabbygirl521]

I wouldn't permanently/legally change my name. Even though I dislike my name for other reasons, it's still my name. I did try to go by my American middle name for a brief period in junior high and it never felt right. But it's just very discouraging to think that I'm not being given a fair shake because my name isn't whitebread. I'd like to at least put my middle name on my resume to get my foot in the door, so to speak. Maybe after getting hired, I could say, "By the way, I go by [Korean name]. Call me that or perish, sweater monkeys!"

(No? That wouldn't work? Back to the drawing board.)

I did have this hopefully educational conversation with my boss a couple of years ago. I was talking about a trip to New Zealand I was planning, and we exchanged the following words:

Boss: "So you're going to come back from New Zealand with an accent?"

Me: "Haha, maybe!"

Boss: "Yeah, that'd be really funny, this Oriental girl coming back with a New Zealand accent."

I hesitantly pointed out that he should probably not refer to Asian people as Orientals anymore and explained that it'd be similar to calling a black person a Negro nowadays. To his credit, the boss was mortified and apologized profusely. Then we had the following exchange:

Boss: "So then what's the proper word?"

Me: "Asian or Korean is fine."

Boss: "But... doesn't that just refer to the place you're from? I mean, you're not FROM Asia or Korea, you're from America! You're American!"

Me: "Well yeah, but Asian and Korean in this context refer to race and ethnicity, not nationality. So I'm Asian, but I'm also American, which is my nationality. Hence Asian-American."

I'm not sure if my boss got it. But in a strange way, his comments showed that he at least didn't think of me as a foreigner, which is something. ("You're from America! You're American!") Still not sure why he thought it'd be hilarious to have an Asian girl speak with a New Zealand accent, though! And while I'm glad that my boss seemed to learn something and at least his heart was in the right place, I was astonished that in this day and age there were still people out there who thought like this.

I have similar well-intentioned but not fully aware people right in my own family. I guess we all have to start somewhere, and it's good to hear that at least your boss was open, and seemed to hear you. Baby steps. I also don't get the accent hilarity, though!

I have a friend, a black woman from London living in the U.S., who constantly has people exclaiming over her accent. "But you're Black! How could you be from England?" The mind, it boggles.

I often have to remind myself that ignorance does not NECESSARILY indicate bad intentions...but it is challenging sometimes!

[bigskygirl]

Please send a PM to one of the mods, use the ignore button feature, or send a report to the report center instead of calling out other posters. The mods understand emotions can get the best of us and not everyone will get along, but calling out others can stir the pot and cause more problems. Thank you.

[galax-arena]

I have a friend, a black woman from London living in the U.S., who constantly has people exclaiming over her accent. "But you're Black! How could you be from England?" The mind, it boggles.

I wonder if it's because Americans have coined "African-American" to be synonymous with black. I can't tell you how often I've heard Idris Elba described as African-American. 

[kalamac]

I've always wondered why Americans do that - not just African-American, but you also hear people who have never set foot in Ireland calling themselves Irish-American, or Italian-Americans whose last three family generations were born in America, and only Great-great-grandpa was born in Italy.

You don't tend to see that in other countries. I've never heard anyone be all "yeah, I'm Irish-Canadian", or "I'm Italian-Australian." My mother was born in Germany, but moved to Australia as a baby with her parents, and has always just called herself Australian. It seems odd to me to define yourself by a country you've never lived in, even if it is part of your heritage.

[Jynnan tonnix]

You don't tend to see that in other countries. I've never heard anyone be all "yeah, I'm Irish-Canadian", or "I'm Italian-Australian." My mother was born in Germany, but moved to Australia as a baby with her parents, and has always just called herself Australian. It seems odd to me to define yourself by a country you've never lived in, even if it is part of your heritage.

 

Makes me think of my father, who identifies extremely with his Polish nationality. He and my mother were both born in Poland, but lived in a number of other countries during and after WWII before ending up in England where they met, and where I was born. My father in particular had a very tumultuous youth including deportation to Siberia and a few years in a Polish orphanage in India. He has always been almost rabidly Polish in his outlook. I remember, as a child, being lectured when I dared identify as English. His favorite argument; "if a chicken lays an egg in a pigsty, what will hatch out?"

[CalicoKitty]

Well, my day has not gone exactly as planned.  I was working on altar flowers at church and managed to cut off the pad on my index finger with the pruning shears.  The hand surgeon doesn't think I need a skin graft, and they cauterized it so it finally stopped bleeding. I don't seem to have any tendon damage, either. Then the doctor asked me if I had the missing piece of skin (?)  So now I'll have no fingerprint on my finger.  I'm afraid it will take a while to heal, and it hurts like heck tonight. I'm hoping it will feel better tomorrow.  I really am very lucky; it could have been much, much worse.  This is exactly why I don't do yard work!  Those flowers better look good Sunday.

[Julia]

I've always wondered why Americans do that - not just African-American, but you also hear people who have never set foot in Ireland calling themselves Irish-American, or Italian-Americans whose last three family generations were born in America, and only Great-great-grandpa was born in Italy.

You don't tend to see that in other countries. I've never heard anyone be all "yeah, I'm Irish-Canadian", or "I'm Italian-Australian." My mother was born in Germany, but moved to Australia as a baby with her parents, and has always just called herself Australian. It seems odd to me to define yourself by a country you've never lived in, even if it is part of your heritage.

I don't know how current this is, but there were back in the day very serious stereotypes about italian or irish americans, and owning that springs from the same impulse as any heritage which is treated like a shame.

[Muffyn]

CalicoKitty, May I just say "ooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww!"  That's going to hurt for awhile.  Glad you're okay.

[Love2dance]

Any of them single?

:)

I'm kidding.

WANDERMAN, Yes, I know you are totally kidding, but you never know. After 20 years of marriage and two kids, my always kinda mean husband decided he needed a newer, younger partner. I figured I was done with any romance in my life. Surprise, one year later I met the man who turns out really was my soul mate. So, you just never know.

[lookeyloo]

WANDERMAN, Yes, I know you are totally kidding, but you never know. After 20 years of marriage and two kids, my always kinda mean husband decided he needed a newer, younger partner. I figured I was done with any romance in my life. Surprise, one year later I met the man who turns out really was my soul mate. So, you just never know.

It took me 3 years but same here.

[Love2dance]

Well, my day has not gone exactly as planned.  I was working on altar flowers at church and managed to cut off the pad on my index finger with the pruning.  I'm afraid it will take a while to heal, and it hurts like heck tonight. I'm hoping it will feel better tomorrow.  I really am very lucky; it could have been much, much worse.  This is exactly why I don't do yard work!  Those flowers better look good Sunday.

Oh my, CALICOKITTY, so sorry. That has to hurt so much. Sending you healing wishes and hugs.

[Wellfleet]

The father leaving, denying, disengaging or finding a HW is a theme when there is a disabled child involved; it's pattern that sadly repeats itself far too often in real life, quite an easy topic to make a movie about.

 

Too true. And not for nothing but Good Grief. If Wander's life over the past year had been written as a play or movie script and offered to me as a producer, I'd turn it down flat. No one would believe so much crud - so many 'life stressors' as we called them in grad school - could happen to one person in the space of just one year. And yet, they do - all the time.

[Wellfleet]

As of noon today, our county Animal Control had still not moved toward locating the offending dog. I went to the office (because that's who I am, after all...) and said I wanted to speak to someone with an office and a badge. Preferably a manager. Wasn't leaving until I did. These are days I wish I lived somewhere other than the south. I had to wait a respectable length of time to see Boss Hogg, who didn't seem either moved or even particularly stressed about my son losing a finger. Sat in his chair with his arms BEHIND HIS HEAD!!! Punched a few numbers on the computer, couldn't find any report of the case. None. PD didn't even GO there the day it happened and write it up. Just to see what effect it had, I turned on the recorder in my phone and sat it on the desk. Ever so slightly more animated, he pushed a few buttons and talked to several different people, punched some more keys on the computer... FINALLY located the case, and explained to me what would happen from then on. Had the case worker come to his office. (Because HE WHO SHALL NOT BE MOVED eventually decided I was either staying the night, or seeing some action). GAWD!!!!!

He tells me, tossing his pad aside, "but your son is an adult. We'll have to speak to him before we move forward. Have him call me". Hellllllllll to the no!!! And be put on hold while you finish dipping your twinkies in your coffee??? Is NOBODY concerned about this roaming pit bull with the ability to surgically remove fingers???? So while he was lazily explaining that my son would need to call, I had picked up the phone and dialed his number. "Hey. Vincent needs to talk to you". Handed him the phone. Cross that off the list and move on. Satisfied that somebody was paying attention, I went back to my car. By the time I got home, the case assignee had called and the ball is rolling. Good Lord. Where is Atticus when you really need him???

 

Happy, you - are - an - animal, and I love it! Go get 'em...

[Wellfleet]

There's an interesting chapter in the book "Freakanomics" about names (it covers naming trends across all races & socio-economic groups and the impacts they have on the individual). Just adding a link here if you're interested.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2005/04/a_roshanda_by_any_other_name.html

 

Freakonomics is a great book - highly recommend it. Digging out my copy as soon as I finish here...

[fireice13]

I never really understood the hyphenating with -American afterwards. At what point do you stop? I'm 8 different things and it would be ridiculous to say all of them (English, Norwegian, Irish, German, Scottish, Welsh, French-Canadian, Cherokee). My great-grandparents emigrated from Norway so that's the closest I am generation wise to another country. 

 

I just wonder if maybe things might be better if everyone in the US just referred to themselves as Americans, rather than immediately highlighting a difference? (that's probably naive thinking, but one can hope).

Edited October 14, 2015 by fireice13

[GeeGolly]

I think it is a pride thing. I live in a very Irish Catholic neighborhood (of which I am neither), many of them have great pride in their heritage, and very much so consider themselves, "half Irish". "3/4s", etc. I'm part Cherokee Indian, which I do check off on forms, but when asked about by heritage or nationality, my standard answer is Mutt.

[JenCarroll]

Well, my day has not gone exactly as planned.  I was working on altar flowers at church and managed to cut off the pad on my index finger with the pruning shears.  The hand surgeon doesn't think I need a skin graft, and they cauterized it so it finally stopped bleeding. I don't seem to have any tendon damage, either. Then the doctor asked me if I had the missing piece of skin (?)  So now I'll have no fingerprint on my finger.  I'm afraid it will take a while to heal, and it hurts like heck tonight. I'm hoping it will feel better tomorrow.  I really am very lucky; it could have been much, much worse.  This is exactly why I don't do yard work!  Those flowers better look good Sunday.

OW! So sorry to hear that. Nerves in the fingertips are very sensitive. I hope it gets better soon. Can you use lidocaine?

[Catlyn]

Again, I would recommend at that time to take stock of the school system's support for special needs kids and ask as many questions of other parents as you can. I recently read a story about a Downs Syndrome teenager forced to be bussed to a high school an hour away so he can be segregated with all of their other special needs students on one campus (illegal!) So even though it is 2015 you have to watch out for crap like this. So getting to the point, when she gets to pre-school and school age there will be another time to re-evaluate her needs and if you are able, to move into a school district that is the best fit for her.

How strange times are. When I was growing up in the 60s, my elementary school had an orthopedic wing for children with disabilities (Muscular dystrophy was the most common) that needed physical therapy aand some developmental tutoring, besides regular schooling. They were also brought into our classrooms for certain subjects to "mainstream" them. Looking back, it was great both for them and us. We learned from them and they were learning with us. Later, I had a friend with learning disabilities and she was bused to a different high school than her sister and me. Just from our interactions, I think she would have done better if she were for some classes, mainstreamed.  It used to be the rage in the 60s now they separate students.

[Lemur]

I never really understood the hyphenating with -American afterwards. At what point do you stop? I'm 8 different things and it would be ridiculous to say all of them (English, Norwegian, Irish, German, Scottish, Welsh, French-Canadian, Cherokee). My great-grandparents emigrated from Norway so that's the closest I am generation wise to another country. 

 

I just wonder if maybe things might be better if everyone in the US just referred to themselves as Americans, rather than immediately highlighting a difference? (that's probably naive thinking, but one can hope).

 

 

I think it is a pride thing. I live in a very Irish Catholic neighborhood (of which I am neither), many of them have great pride in their heritage, and very much so consider themselves, "half Irish". "3/4s", etc. I'm part Cherokee Indian, which I do check off on forms, but when asked about by heritage or nationality, my standard answer is Mutt.

 

It also has a lot to do with persecution.  Hear me out.  (And I'm not trying to stir the pot.)  Certain immigrant populations faced a lot of opposition when they first got to the US, the Irish famously when they came across in droves during the Famine, but later the Italian, Eastern European, Jewish, etc. communities.  A lot of it has to do with religion, as the Irish and Italians are traditionally Catholic, and the majority of the US was some denomination of Protestant and they'd all come from Europe that wasn't that far off from the Hundred Years War and other religious conflicts in the long wake of the Reformation.  Eastern European immigrants would see it later, as would Jews.  They're the "great other" to the white Protestant ruling class (not throwing any shade on white Protestants here).  It also has a lot to do with the fact that the immigrant communities had a tendency to move en masse from port city to coal mine or sugar cane field or Midwestern Land Grant farms and essentially keep a good bit of their native culture alive with them.  With the Irish and Italians, it's especially strong because of the close ties between Ireland and Italy and the US, the common cross-travel between them, and the fact that the Irish have gone through about three or four great waves of immigration and still, to this day, it's common to have and know family in Ireland.  

 

My people are largely Irish, English, Scots and Dutch, but I don't bother with hyphenation as we're so far removed from those countries of origin for the most part (except for that one Irish great grandmother) that it's kind of pointless.  Hell, my own Irish-blooded relatives used to complain about the Irish.  They took great joy in reminding everyone they were Lace Curtain Irish, meaning their family had come across in the 1750's before the Famine, and not some johnny-come-lately Famine Irish or worse, Ignorant Bog Trotting Irish that came over in the early 1900's.  My personal policy is that if you didn't know someone personally in your bloodline who emigrated, you don't get to claim a hyphen.   Also, my relatives are nuts. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by Lemur

[galax-arena]

I just wonder if maybe things might be better if everyone in the US just referred to themselves as Americans, rather than immediately highlighting a difference? (that's probably naive thinking, but one can hope).

Honestly, I think that this way of thinking, while well-intentioned, reminds me of when people say that they don't even see color and that they're colorblind. Not literally colorblind, but in the sense that they (claim to) never notice a person's race or skin color. IIRC, it's been shown that this sort of colorblind ideology can actually contribute to racist attitudes and microaggressions. I mean, I'm Asian. There's really no way to work around that, and it's not something that I particularly want to work around. I wouldn't say I'm proud of being Asian - why be proud of something that I didn't even have to work for, a simple accident of birth? - but I'm not ashamed of it either. And being Asian has shaped my sense of identity as an American, because being an Asian in America is not the same as being a white person in America. It feels like an implicit call to ignore these cultural differences when one talks about being colorblind or being against hyphenation. Personally, I love cultural differences as much as I love religious pluralism. :D I've never really liked the metaphor of the US as a melting pot, I prefer the one that describes us as a mixed/tossed salad. 

 

I don't think this is what anyone here means when they say we should just call ourselves American, since it seems like you guys are talking mostly about white Americans, but just saying that this is how I feel when someone tells me that it's wrong to refer to hyphenated Americans. I do think that a lot of Americans can get overly precious about this sort of thing, though, like if they've been in the US for generations. Still, even then, if you're a POC, there are different dynamics at play. 

So now I'll have no fingerprint on my finger. 

Now would be a good time to become a criminal. Make the most of this opportunity. 

[Satchels of gold]

I have some exciting news. I have shared that my daughter is adopted from Central Asia. Her home country has closed adoptions to Americans for reasons that are mostly political. A news team from the motherland is coming to the U.S. with the assistance from the State Department to do a program on positive adoption experiences. The hope is that they will again permit Americans to adopt these poor children who are languishing in orphanages. Anyhoo they are featuring my daughter!

Yay! I spoke with a producer yesterday and they will be here for a few days filming us.....we may end up on the cutting room floor who knows but I'm excited.

Edited October 14, 2015 by nc socialworker

[galax-arena]

Congrats! If the video makes it online, you should post a link. :)

[Satchels of gold]

Damn, can I loose 10 lbs in a week? Lol

[Purpose to defraud]

Damn, can I loose 10 lbs in a week? Lol

That's why spanx exist.  Also try one of those cheek contouring make up kits.  

[JenCarroll]

In our school district the kids start learning to write research papers in fourth grade. The first project is the "country report" where each kid picks a country and writes a paper -- they're pretty much given an outline for, it's the training-wheels paper. Anyhoo -- they encourage the kids to pick something from their heritage, but they also want each one to do a different country. (There's usually some squabbling over India.) So DD1 came home with this project and said, "What country should I pick? What's my heritage?" DH handed her a map of Europe and said, "Pretty much this." She ended up doing Ireland.

The following year DD2 had the same assignment and DH pulled out the map of Europe. DD2 looked at it and said, "But aren't we Asian? I mean, didn't our people come from Israel originally, and that's in Asia." And I just stared at her, because it had never in my life occurred to me to look at it that way. Of course if you go far enough back, we may all come from Africa, so there's that.

Edited because complete sentences. Are important.

Edited October 14, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Liz Tudor]

Of course if you go far enough back, we may all come from Africa, so there's that.

Hush your mouth before I turn you over to the Texas textbook selection committee. MY people appeared, fully formed, right here in the good ol' USA, 6,000 years ago.

[Satchels of gold]

Hush your mouth before I turn you over to the Texas textbook selection committee. MY people appeared, fully formed, right here in the good ol' USA, 6,000 years ago.

Riding dinosaurs like the good Lord intended! PTL

[MarysWetBar]

In our school district the kids start learning to write research papers in fourth grade. The first project is the "country report" where each kid picks a country and writes a paper -- they're pretty much given an outline for, it's the training-wheels paper. Anyhoo -- they encourage the kids to pick something from their heritage, but they also want each one to do a different country. (There's usually some squabbling over India.) So DD1 came home with this project and said, "What country should I pick? What's my heritage?" DH handed her a map of Europe and said, "Pretty much this." She ended up doing Ireland.

The following year DD2 had the same assignment and DH pulled out the map of Europe. DD2 looked at it and said, "But aren't we Asian? I mean, didn't our people come from Israel originally, and that's in Asia." And I just stared at her, because it had never in my life occurred to me to look at it that way. Of course if you go far enough back, we may all come from Africa, so there's that.

Edited because complete sentences. Are important.

We did this in grade four in Canada. I chose Holland cus it was the only book left in our small school library. To this day. .you have a question about Holland and Google is down? Hit me up :)

[galax-arena]

Riding dinosaurs like the good Lord intended! PTL

The Creation Museum in Kentucky wouldn't lie to us!

 

BTW, since we've talked about it here before, I still have not given up my quest to eventually get to the Creation Museum. I visited this place called the Morbid Anatomy Museum here in NYC the other day, and you should have seen my eyes light up when the curator told us that she had visited the Creation Museum and had brought back a few books to display at Morbid Anatomy. I practically started interrogating her on what it was like, heh. A few interesting things she told me: 1) The production values were so slick that she almost felt brainwashed into believing what they were selling. 2) She's non-religious while her boyfriend is Catholic, and between the two, her boyfriend was a lot angrier about everything, especially at the fact that they were lining Ken Ham's pockets. 3) They completely stood out as unbelievers based purely on unofficial dress code.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Just want to say thank you for the well-wishes. My mother's surgery went well. She had to stay overnight because her oxygen levels needed to be monitored, but she is coming home today. I did have a panic attack seeing her hooked up to all the wires and monitors. It was hard seeing her like that. A nurse was very understanding of my anxiety and brought me some iced water and an ice pack to help calm me down.

[Liz Tudor]

They completely stood out as unbelievers based purely on unofficial dress code.

I'm assuming because of their defrauding clothes (like pants and/or shorts, and no maxi denim skirts).

[MargeGunderson]

Now would be a good time to become a criminal. Make the most of this opportunity. 

 

Hee! That was my first thought as well. We clearly have some devious tendencies.

[Lemur]

We did this in grade four in Canada. I chose Holland cus it was the only book left in our small school library. To this day. .you have a question about Holland and Google is down? Hit me up :)

 

What's up with the mandatory swimming tests?

[questionfear]

In our school district the kids start learning to write research papers in fourth grade. The first project is the "country report" where each kid picks a country and writes a paper -- they're pretty much given an outline for, it's the training-wheels paper. Anyhoo -- they encourage the kids to pick something from their heritage, but they also want each one to do a different country. (There's usually some squabbling over India.) So DD1 came home with this project and said, "What country should I pick? What's my heritage?" DH handed her a map of Europe and said, "Pretty much this." She ended up doing Ireland.

The following year DD2 had the same assignment and DH pulled out the map of Europe. DD2 looked at it and said, "But aren't we Asian? I mean, didn't our people come from Israel originally, and that's in Asia." And I just stared at her, because it had never in my life occurred to me to look at it that way. Of course if you go far enough back, we may all come from Africa, so there's that.

Edited because complete sentences. Are important.

Ha! That's pretty funny. I remember debating which continent Israel technically belonged to with my friends in Hebrew School-some people thought Africa because we could see Egypt from some of our hikes in Israel. I believe we had to haul out a map to settle it. 

[MarysWetBar]

What's up with the mandatory swimming tests?

Because the Netherlands is full of canals. .they make them learn to swim in school to prevent accidental drowning. Some lessons even take place while they are fully clothed so they have practice with heavier weight to recover.

[galax-arena]

I would have died in the Netherlands. 

 

/failed the PE swimming unit in high school... I couldn't tread water for fifteen minutes

[Love2dance]

Just want to say thank you for the well-wishes. My mother's surgery went well. She had to stay overnight because her oxygen levels needed to be monitored, but she is coming home today. I did have a panic attack seeing her hooked up to all the wires and monitors. It was hard seeing her like that. A nurse was very understanding of my anxiety and brought me some iced water and an ice pack to help calm me down.

Great news, JOE JITSU, so glad she did well and hope her recovery at home goes smoothly.

[wanderwoman]

Maisie and I are off to her physical therapy. I hope everyone has a good day. I also have my own appointment today so if I don't check, don't be scared.

[JenCarroll]

Ha! That's pretty funny. I remember debating which continent Israel technically belonged to with my friends in Hebrew School-some people thought Africa because we could see Egypt from some of our hikes in Israel. I believe we had to haul out a map to settle it.

I think because we define Europe, Asia, and Africa as three separate continents even though they actually form one contiguous land mass (points to Suez Canal) some people are unclear about the Africa/Asia border. Because yes, Egypt does border Israel and they are on separate continents, geographically.

BTW My dad's answer to DD2's question was, "Well, that's Asia Minor, so we might be minor Asians."