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Small Talk: The Prayer Closet


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19 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

We have a nurse who comes in once a week to check on her, and she is wonderful -she (or, sometimes someone else) is on call to come at any time if Mom has a setback. She was here a number of times last week. Also, aides are available anytime. One came yesterday to help Mom with her shower, as I don't feel comfortable doing it since she has gotten so much weaker.  If and when she gets to the point that her care becomes too difficult for me, they have more or less set up a couple of nursing homes that she will be able to move to but we would like to be able to keep her here as long as possible. Hospice does provide quite a lot of respite care when it becomes necessary 

@Jynnan tonnix, you're doing your best and it is far more than most can do.  Is there any way that your daughter whose toddler you babysit, would be able to come to your house for an hour or two so you can go to an exercise class or out to Starbucks or just stare at your navel for a bit?  I know it is tough because you are the mom and everyone depends on you, but there is nothing wrong with tasking your adult children with preparing a meal for the family once in a while when they're visiting, it shouldn't all be on your shoulders.   If they say they're coming, just tell them you're putting them in charge of dinner for 6 (or 8 or 24) on Tuesday night and they can either order delivery for the whole family or go shopping and make something, their choice.  Same thing with sheets and towels, etc.  Let them know they'll have to make up their own beds and strip them and toss the sheets in the wash when they go.

Sometimes, especially with family who've gotten used to the status quo; you just need to tell them what to do and they'll pitch in.

It is so tough when your parents get to the age where you are parenting them; don't be afraid to spell out what you need to your husband and the rest of the family.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

This woman buys food like it’s going out of style. I know this stems from her Mommy guilt over my sister and “tomato sauce gate 1997”*(story below); but I’m not responsible for her issues. What she does in her kitchen is HER BUSINESS, but my freezer is off limits. I do let her store some ice cream bars and shrimp in there so my sister doesn’t eat them all at once, but if she had her way I’d have no room because it would be filled with all of my sisters favorite things😒.

A few years ago she over bought things at Costco and was legit going to put them in my freezer and I told my friend who was staying with me “do not let those steaks enter my freezer!” My mom STOMPED HER CANE at me (she DID) and said “throw the shit out since you refuse to help me!” And I said “yes ma’am I will throw it out.” I had the meat box IN MY HAND walking to the alley and she yelled at me to come back and she would leave it in her fridge. 
 

This woman and her SHOPPING and clutter drives me bonkers. But yes- we are lucky to have each other. I just have to be FIRM with her about certain things. The older she gets the more she reminds me of my grandfather, I admit she’s way nicer to me than he was to her (he gave her hell- black men do NOT do well when they become disabled, and after he lost his vision he became depressed and agoraphobic), but she’s so much more moody and emotional, also she worries more. We have a wedding Sunday July 2nd and she is concerned about leaving on time “calm down we are just going to Indiana!”

I understand this is just a part of aging and I do try to be patient, but I have my limits.

*Picture it, 1997, I’m 12 my sister is 9, and one random evening my sister wanted spaghetti (as usual it’s her favorite) and there was no tomato sauce. My sister had a major tantrum, destroyed the kitchen looking for tomato sauce and my mom broke down crying “you’ll never have to go through this again! NEVER!” My grandfather (who was blind) asked me what all the noise was about, and I said “P wants tomato sauce, we are out.” While my Mom and sister were having their emotional moment I was standing there annoyed because 1. I knew I was the one who was going to have to clean up this mess, 2. My sister was always allowed to get away with everything. After they were both done with their emotional meltdown, my Mom went to get tomato sauce and I was tasked with the clean up. 

I’m so sorry you were left to clean that up. As a child you shouldn’t have been, imo. 
 

Does your mom have room for a separate freezer that could be locked?

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39 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I’m so sorry you were left to clean that up. As a child you shouldn’t have been, imo. 
 

Does your mom have room for a separate freezer that could be locked?

There’s plenty of space for several freezers in the basement. And she has a seperate freezer in the basement that she doesn’t use! (It’s not even plugged in)

She knows she shouldn’t be buying all this but you can’t tell mommies anything, so I put my foot down😂. Thank goodness for M, (my sister’s weekday caregiver) who knows how to deal with her and backs me up. M is due for a raise in Sept because she has more than earned it!

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If there are any Rock Hudson fans in the thread- you have to check out All that Heaven Allowed, it’s on HBO/Max and the thread is here. That man was so dreamy, all the old footage is great. It was so much harder to take film and video then I really treasure it, the films of he and his friends, how “regular” people lived. 

Edited to add- not that Rock Hudson was “regular”, he was exceptional in every possible way, but many of his friends were, and they were doing “regular things”, he was being Roy (his given name), hooking up, hanging out, having fun etc. 

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18 hours ago, AstridM said:

I’m so sorry you were left to clean that up. As a child you shouldn’t have been, imo. 

I wanted to say that you are very sweet to me- but who else was going to clean up the mess? My grandfather couldn’t, my sister couldn’t, my Mom was at the store getting the tomato sauce and the caregiver was gone for the day. It made no logistical sense to leave the kitchen a wreck- the quicker it was done the quicker we all could just go to bed. 
 

My critique of the situation wasn’t that I had to clean up a mess- that’s life, shit happens, but the response was to indulge my sister’s every whim because of “mommy guilt”, (even if that means making clutter and trying to infringe on my space which I won’t let her do) which was never corrected and NOW my mom wants to whine about her behavior. “You did this to yourself Mommy”(I mean my sister’s lack of discipline and that her behavior is ATROCIOUS when my Mom is present, not her disability).  
 

My mom is 75, I know she will go to her grave with her issues and responses which I can’t fix and don’t want to- but you can’t hoard food in my freezer cause you have issues. You have your OWN freezer- I have boundaries (and there is no reason TWO people- my mom and my sister, can’t use a giant USA sized fridge with French door freezer). The joys of being a sibling and not a parent. 

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1 hour ago, Absolom said:

The bottom line is yes, your mother was unfair to you and actually your sister, too, by indulging her.  She rewarded the bad behavior in the worst way.  That you managed to accept and overcome it all is such a credit to you.  

Again you are so sweet! No one is perfect and I have the best mommy ever. Which is why she gets fun presents like mobility scooters. 
 

I told her she had to PRACTICE and make the commitment because I was not going to just let it sit. It should be good to use it outside until at least mid October. She does try, my grandfather gave her such a hard time with things, she will at least listen to me now. She says she remembers how he was and she doesn’t want to make more work for me. I am thankful for that. 
 

Edited to add- I personally think they are crazy fun, and when I have had to drive it through the hotels/deliver it to her I have thought “If I need one of these in 30yrs I will be READY!” But I can admit I probably think it’s fun because I don’t need it. 

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Anyone have experience with strokes? How long did they stay in rehab? 
 

my aunt had a stroke and now I’m stuck with full time caretaking for her handicapped adult child. I’m very tired after 1 week. I can’t imagine doing this for 2 months.

Her son is telling me nothing outside of she had a stroke and is now in rehab. That’s all I know.

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25 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

Anyone have experience with strokes? How long did they stay in rehab? 
 

my aunt had a stroke and now I’m stuck with full time caretaking for her handicapped adult child. I’m very tired after 1 week. I can’t imagine doing this for 2 months.

Her son is telling me nothing outside of she had a stroke and is now in rehab. That’s all I know.

It appears your cousin might be taking advantage of you.  I suggest discussing it with him, and that he might need to find other options.

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26 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

Anyone have experience with strokes? How long did they stay in rehab? 
 

my aunt had a stroke and now I’m stuck with full time caretaking for her handicapped adult child. I’m very tired after 1 week. I can’t imagine doing this for 2 months.

Her son is telling me nothing outside of she had a stroke and is now in rehab. That’s all I know.

Every person, every stroke and every recovery is unique. There's no rule or timeframe. Your aunt's abilities may or may not improve enough to take back the care of her child.

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2 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Anyone have experience with strokes? How long did they stay in rehab? 
 

my aunt had a stroke and now I’m stuck with full time caretaking for her handicapped adult child. I’m very tired after 1 week. I can’t imagine doing this for 2 months.

Her son is telling me nothing outside of she had a stroke and is now in rehab. That’s all I know.

Oh, @oliviabenson I'm so sorry to hear this. My husband had a stroke 9 years ago - very mild in his case. He did not require rehab. Like others have said, experiences vary. It does sound like you are being asked to do more than you can handle. Please don't wear yourself out!

A woman I used to work with recently had a massive stroke and spent 100 days in rehab. She still has a long way to go to get back to her previous abilities. She requires help to walk and has to re-learn a lot of things. I'm not sure if she'll ever be back to work. But she is lucky. She nearly lost her life. Please keep us posted on how you decide to handle this. I'm sure that this change of circumstances has been difficult for the handicapped adult you are caring for. You are so kind to help out. 

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As said above strokes vary.  They go from barely perceptible to death.  Can you go visit her?  Just from a visit, you can get a general idea of her functioning.  Going to rehab means definitely more than minor, IMO.  You aren't responsible for your cousin.  Hopefully, your aunt made arrangements and those should be implemented.  

Give your cousin a deadline for making other arrangements.  Have some medical appointments coming up that make you unavailable or plan a trip (you have plans they may or not actually happen) or something else is going to happen if you find you can't simply say this is too much for me I only think I can last another two weeks or however long you're willing to do this.  

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3 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Anyone have experience with strokes? How long did they stay in rehab? 
 

my aunt had a stroke and now I’m stuck with full time caretaking for her handicapped adult child. I’m very tired after 1 week. I can’t imagine doing this for 2 months.

Her son is telling me nothing outside of she had a stroke and is now in rehab. That’s all I know.

 You would be a caregiver, not a caretaker.

I’m going to be blunt here. If you feel stuck, you shouldn’t be taking this on. Are you there 24/7? Do you not know where your aunt is? Does your cousin receive services at all? I’d start with finding out your aunt’s situation from medical staff. Then I’d find out your cousin’s options based on that. 

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(edited)
26 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

 You would be a caregiver, not a caretaker.

I’m going to be blunt here. If you feel stuck, you shouldn’t be taking this on. Are you there 24/7? Do you not know where your aunt is? Does your cousin receive services at all? I’d start with finding out your aunt’s situation from medical staff. Then I’d find out your cousin’s options based on that. 

I’m with almost 24/7. gets an aide for 12 hours a week… I know where the aunt is. I am not close to her (she is a very unpleasant woman). I don’t want to visit her. The ex husband helps a few hours in the am. 
 

Aunt is going to be in rehab for a month at least. 
 

Basically physically taking care of my cousin falls on me. And so far all I got $ for is food/household items. 
 

I think I will tell her son I’m going to watch the sibling until Friday. 
 

I am exhausted and this is not for me. 

Edited by oliviabenson
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17 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

I’m with almost 24/7. gets an aide for 12 hours a week… I know where the aunt is. I am not close to her (she is a very unpleasant woman). I don’t want to visit her. The ex husband helps a few hours in the am. 
 

Aunt is going to be in rehab for a month at least. 
 

Basically physically taking care of my cousin falls on me. And so far all I got $ for is food/household items. 
 

I think I will tell her son I’m going to watch the sibling until Friday. 
 

I am exhausted and this is not for me. 

How are you able to do this and also go to work?

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19 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Today someone I know only slightly did something for me (totally unsolicited or expected) that was so incredibly thoughtful and kind that it brought tears to my eyes and, unbeknownst to her, brought me off the brink of doing something incredibly stupid.

So, if you have the opportunity to show/do a kindness this weekend, please don't ignore it.  You may well make someone's day, and as a bonus you'll feel good about yourself!

(Homily over, thanks for indulging me.)

I’m glad you had a nice gesture done to you! I know how good that feels!

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Taking the discussion of funerals from @Iguessnot attire question in the JB & Michelle thread-

funeral attire and customs vary SO MUCH. I’ve observed that in ADOS families, if the person dies young/tragically it’s common to have less North American Christian traditional wear (black suits/dresses) and often the person’s favorite colors/sport teams etc in honor of their “home going ceremony”.  Also, where the service is being held matters, if it’s in a church many of the elders want to make sure you’re covered up (men and women) out of respect. I remember when my great aunt B died (who was our nanny) in 2005, a cousin showed up in a Bulls jersey and basketball shorts- they got a talking to “this is church, you show respect”(for the record this was an adult who should’ve known better). 
 

If I am invited to a funeral and I am not sure of the custom I ASK because 1. I don’t want to draw unnecessary attention to myself when we are there to honor the person, 2. If something special is asked (like to honor a loved color or hobby of the person) I assume that’s bringing comfort to the people left behind and I want to honor that. 

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22 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Anyone have experience with strokes? How long did they stay in rehab? 
 

my aunt had a stroke and now I’m stuck with full time caretaking for her handicapped adult child. I’m very tired after 1 week. I can’t imagine doing this for 2 months.

Her son is telling me nothing outside of she had a stroke and is now in rehab. That’s all I know.

(((Hugs))))

I assume the son speaking to you is the sibling of the person with the disability?

As someone who is a caregiver herself, “full time caregiver” and “disabled adult child” can mean so many different things. Does person with a disability have a guardian? A successor guardian? What’s the plan when the two weeks are up? Are they capable of attending to their daily needs (hygiene, cooking, dressing etc), do they need 24/7 supervision?

 

It is wonderful for you to step in and help for two weeks (you’re a great cousin) but don’t over extend yourself or let people who haven’t gotten THEIR ducks in a row take advantage of you. For the record I am not suggesting leaving your cousin with a disability in an unsafe situation (I don’t know the nature of their disability) but people need to respect your boundaries.

 

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Circling back to the funeral topic… a friend of a friend of mine’s father recently passed away. When he was in the hospital and not expected to live through the night, they called the family in to say their goodbyes. Long story short, the next morning he was up and eating ice cream, which was his favorite food ever. He did eventually pass away, and the family had an ice cream truck at the cemetery. Music playing with his favorite songs. It was a great send off! Very different, but it worked for them.

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@lookeyloo

I’m sorry that I’m only replying to your May 18th post now, but I’ve been busy with moving and asthma and such.

A few years ago, I purchased an RTic cooler (like the Yeti ones, only about half the price) as well as the expensive ($300) back up battery for my CPAP machine.  I wanted to be prepared for the next Long Island hurricane. Food can stay safe for a few days in that kind of cooler.

I live in an apartment complex, so no generator for me.  During superstorm/hurricane Sandy, I was without power for 13 days, 3.5 hours.  There is one building in our complex that backs up to the main road, and they were only without power for 3 days.  It was painful to look at their lighted windows.  My entertainment was limited to an hour of radio per night to conserve battery power. The NYC schools were even closed for a few days.  I went back to school to keep warm and charge my phone and tablet.  The parents of the children in the kindergarten class I taught were very concerned about me, and they rejoiced when I told them I had power again!

 

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On 6/28/2023 at 5:19 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

I'm going to allow myself a bit of a vent here as well, though I recognize that my circumstances are practically blissful in comparison with those of so many other people's.

First or all, my mom has been living here with us under hospice care for the past few months. Every so often, it seems as though we are on the verge of losing her, then she seems to rally for a few days before crashing again. There's not actually a whole lot wrong with her, as far as her blood work/vitals, etc, but she is 89, has a lot of nerve pain, has had a number of mini-stroke which sometimes make communication a bit frustrating for her, as she is an exceptionally intelligent woman. Getting up out of bed has gotten to the point of being a bit too much for her for more than than a few minutes here and there, she barely eats anymore...though she has tried very hard to maintain her mostly happy disposition. I do what I can, but unfortunately I don't have that sort of natural nurturing gene which those who gravitate to a nursing profession seem to have. So it's been a bit difficult.

On top of that, I babysit my 18 month old grandson two days a week, which, though he can be an utter joy, is, In some ways, not that much different than caring for Mom. 

And Mr Jyn just came home from his monthly 6-day long fishing trip with friends in Virginia (we live in CT), and came home early with a fever and feeling horrible, which turned out, after he finally admitted it after a few days, probably had something to do with either a bug bite or a cut/splinter/something high on the back of his thigh which looked very angrily infected, but he absolutely refused to go to urgent care with it until yesterday evening, when he has been dealing with the fever for five days already. He has antibiotics now, so hopefully they work, but since they could not quite tell what the cause of the infection was, he may have to go back for blood work if it doesn't start getting better by tomorrow.

I'm about worn out.

Both my sons have come back to visit, separately, in the past week or so, since it seemed they might have to be saying goodbye to their grandmother, and while it was wonderful to get to see them, that was more juggling of the schedule, fixing requested meals for larger groups (since daughter and her family were also here quite a bit, though they live locally). I have not been able to get to my silver sneakers classes at the gym in a month, since it always seems like just the wrong time to be leaving everyone alone. Just kind of a perfect storm of stuff going on, none of it horrible enough that I really feel justified in complaining, but I'm just so tired right now ...

Being a caregiver is a huge job. Your sentiments are valid. We do it because we care and want to be helpful, but it can be emotionally draining.  It’s good you’re recognizing the impact it’s having.  Just the stress from the situation is draining.  I was responsible for my cousin, who had dementia for 6 years, until her death. (Thanks again to all those on this site who gave me support during that time.) Now, I’m caregiving for my parents and working.  I recall how I read about the physical toll it can take on the caregiver and it’s true.  I suffered a marked decline in health due to what I believe was stress, though it manifested itself in various physical ailments.  Please be aware and take care of yourself.  Caregiver fatigue is very real.  Sometimes, things that seem obvious aren’t recognized by other family members.  So, they must be told specifically what the needs are, what would be helpful, etc. I’m navigating my way right now to a more manageable arrangement.  I hope things improve for you!  Venting is a part of self care, imo.  😉

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20 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

We are getting a good, soaking rain today. We really need it! The air quality index is moderate today, so that's a relief too. 

I know. We desperately need the rain, but Cosmo won’t go out! We are heading to Indiana for a wedding this afternoon, I have no doubt M will look after him (she’s covering today and tonight) but poor baby. It’s two hours past his normal walk time and he will NOT go. 

70999430824__EDBC9C5B-FF29-4D2F-AD60-7543A3EB7E44.jpeg

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I took lots of pictures (of course) during my UK vacation. Editing them is taking awhile, and it's a fun way to revisit and remember the places I visited. Ma Nature smiled on us with good weather on 3 June, and I caught this iconic shot in Westminster Square. (It was just me and what seemed like a million other folks. It was all good.)

20230603-London-RX2R2-66copy.jpg.3cff195839634aa399bc86870969f993.jpg

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13 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Suggestions please. I went to the store this morning and as I was walking back to my car I saw a kitten under the vehicle.  He went up In to the engine and won't come out.  I cannot drive with the csy in the engine and cannot remove the poor thing. Any ideas?

Oh no! Can you go in the store and get a can of wet food to lure the kitten out? Can you open the hood and see if the kitten will hop out that way. 

  • Like 6

The cat finally got out on his own when I sat in my car. A nice man stopped to see if I had car problems and checked the engine to make sure the kitty got out. I felt so bad for the poor little thing. I hope someone finds it and can catch him so he can have a good home. The Idea about getting some wet cat food was a good one but he was small I am not sure if he would recognize it as food.

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2 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Suggestions please. I went to the store this morning and as I was walking back to my car I saw a kitten under the vehicle.  He went up In to the engine and won't come out.  I cannot drive with the csy in the engine and cannot remove the poor thing. Any ideas?

Awww. My first cat ended up losing one of his legs that way 🥲. So glad you noticed it before harm occurred ❤️.

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(edited)
On 7/1/2023 at 12:06 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Taking the discussion of funerals from @Iguessnot attire question in the JB & Michelle thread-

funeral attire and customs vary SO MUCH. I’ve observed that in ADOS families, if the person dies young/tragically it’s common to have less North American Christian traditional wear (black suits/dresses) and often the person’s favorite colors/sport teams etc in honor of their “home going ceremony”.  Also, where the service is being held matters, if it’s in a church many of the elders want to make sure you’re covered up (men and women) out of respect. I remember when my great aunt B died (who was our nanny) in 2005, a cousin showed up in a Bulls jersey and basketball shorts- they got a talking to “this is church, you show respect”(for the record this was an adult who should’ve known better). 
 

If I am invited to a funeral and I am not sure of the custom I ASK because 1. I don’t want to draw unnecessary attention to myself when we are there to honor the person, 2. If something special is asked (like to honor a loved color or hobby of the person) I assume that’s bringing comfort to the people left behind and I want to honor that. 

I got a kick out of one of my elder cousins showing up in her floor length fur for a funeral. I attended a funeral not long ago when everyone was requested to wear yellow. I can understand a theme funeral. But it's a little offputting to see everyone so casually dressed as though they are hitting the rib joint next. 

Edited by Iguessnot
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5 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I took lots of pictures (of course) during my UK vacation. Editing them is taking awhile, and it's a fun way to revisit and remember the places I visited. Ma Nature smiled on us with good weather on 3 June, and I caught this iconic shot in Westminster Square. (It was just me and what seemed like a million other folks. It was all good.)

20230603-London-RX2R2-66copy.jpg.3cff195839634aa399bc86870969f993.jpg

We took that same picture!

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13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

It’s two hours past his normal walk time and he will NOT go. 

Could fireworks outside be bothering him? My house was soundproofed when they expanded O'Hare airport, so we don't hear many outside noises with our windows closed. But the last few days all the fireworks going off in my neighborhood are making my cats very jumpy. (And I live in the suburbs, so it's not as bad as the city.) 

14 hours ago, BetyBee said:

We are getting a good, soaking rain today. We really need it! The air quality index is moderate today, so that's a relief too. 

So weird how we've been in such a drought, and then the only time we get torrential rain is the weekend the Nascar race was set here. I bet the organizers were fuming.

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(edited)
34 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

Could fireworks outside be bothering him? My house was soundproofed when they expanded O'Hare airport, so we don't hear many outside noises with our windows closed. But the last few days all the fireworks going off in my neighborhood are making my cats very jumpy. (And I live in the suburbs, so it's not as bad as the city.) 

So weird how we've been in such a drought, and then the only time we get torrential rain is the weekend the Nascar race was set here. I bet the organizers were fuming.

They got the race in. They had to shorten it due to darkness, but they set a number of laps and got em done before dark.

Edited by Salacious Kitty
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16 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

They got the race in. They had to shorten it due to darkness, but they set a number of laps and got em done before dark.

Oh good! I'm not a Nascar fan...but I thought it was good for Chicago area tourism. :) 

I personally don't the get appeal of cars racing around and around, plus I am always afraid someone will get really hurt in a crash. (I'm a wuss) 😁

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On 7/2/2023 at 10:53 AM, Jeeves said:

I took lots of pictures (of course) during my UK vacation. Editing them is taking awhile, and it's a fun way to revisit and remember the places I visited. Ma Nature smiled on us with good weather on 3 June, and I caught this iconic shot in Westminster Square. (It was just me and what seemed like a million other folks. It was all good.)

20230603-London-RX2R2-66copy.jpg.3cff195839634aa399bc86870969f993.jpg

Nice shot! We were there in the middle on renovations, so our pictures are a mass of scaffolding with a clock face. 🤣

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40 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I was so happy the scaffolding was gone by the time I got there. When I was in London in 2018, the scaffolding was in full bloom. 

The scaffolding seems to be perennial, though with buildings of that sort of vintage and history, it's probably a neverending job keeping everything from starting to crumble. 

I remember, it must have been around 1985-ish, I went to England with a friend, and one of the photos she took was of Big Ben completely surrounded in scaffolding. She captioned it, "Big Ben at the orthodontist" which made me giggle!

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(edited)
9 hours ago, Quof said:

Nerd Alert - Big Ben is the bell. Not the clock. 

Weeeeeeell, if we're going to be nerdy pedants, Big Ben is the nickname of the Great Bell, the biggest of the five of the Great Clock of Westminster, in what was originally the Clock Tower, renamed the Elizabeth Tower in 2012, the year of Elizabeth II's Diamond Jubilee.

So, now you all know, and I give you the permission granted to me automatically as a British citizen to go back to referring to any part of it, bell, clock, or tower as Big Ben, rather than risk blank stares from your friends and family  😁

 

Edited by Leeds
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Message added by Scarlett45

This is a reminder that the Politics Policy is still in effect.

I understand with recent current events there may be a desire to discuss political social media posts of those in the Duggar realm- this is not the place for those discussions. If you believe someone has violated forum rules, report them, do not respond or engage.

Political discussion is not allowed in this forum- this includes Small Talk topics. Please stay in the spirit of the policy- I have noticed a tendency for some to follow the letter but not the spirit.

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While we understand the frustration (change is never easy), please keep in mind that not everyone feels the same way and that for those members who don't, the ongoing conversation about other forums and chat options can equally be a cause of frustration.

Out of respect for your fellow posters, we kindly ask that you continue any discussion about alternatives via PM or the Technically Speaking: Bugs, Questions, & Suggestions area.

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You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

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