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Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

Honeycocoa

By Honeycocoa
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45

This is a reminder that the Politics Policy is still in effect.

I understand with recent current events there may be a desire to discuss political social media posts of those in the Duggar realm- this is not the place for those discussions. If you believe someone has violated forum rules, report them, do not respond or engage.

Political discussion is not allowed in this forum- this includes Small Talk topics. Please stay in the spirit of the policy- I have noticed a tendency for some to follow the letter but not the spirit.

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While we understand the frustration (change is never easy), please keep in mind that not everyone feels the same way and that for those members who don't, the ongoing conversation about other forums and chat options can equally be a cause of frustration.

Out of respect for your fellow posters, we kindly ask that you continue any discussion about alternatives via PM or the Technically Speaking: Bugs, Questions, & Suggestions area.

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

So after 29 years, I finally got to see New Kids on the Block.  It was definitely worth the wait.  They are touring with Debbie Gibson and I got to hear her sing Lost in Your Eyes with Joey McIntyre.  Swoon.  Joey McIntyre can still get it.   My younger sister went with me and I think she has been spoiled for boy bands.  I hope she enjoys Backstreet Boys next month. 

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wilsie

wilsie

49 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Heading off for my surgery in a little bit...wish me luck! I'll check back in when I get a chance.

Good and caring thoughts that everything goes well.  You get wise and compassionate care.  Peace and healing for you and everyone who loves you.  

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Barb23

Barb23

59 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Heading off for my surgery in a little bit...wish me luck! I'll check back in when I get a chance.

Hope everything goes well. Sending good vibes your way.

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Mindthinkr

Mindthinkr

2 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Heading off for my surgery in a little bit...wish me luck! I'll check back in when I get a chance.

We will have a family prayer for you. (Not fundie, but full of caring and concern) Wishing you an easy surgery and speedy recovery. 

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Suzn

Suzn

2 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Heading off for my surgery in a little bit...wish me luck! I'll check back in when I get a chance.

The best of luck to you.  😊

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Love2dance

Love2dance

4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Heading off for my surgery in a little bit...wish me luck! I'll check back in when I get a chance.

Thinking about you today and sending good thoughts for an easy surgery and recovery. Will be looking for your posts as soon as you feel up to it. Many hugs!

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funky-rat

funky-rat

(edited)
On 7/5/2019 at 1:17 PM, Scarlett45 said:

So much this. I’m as far from the Duggars as you can get, but I do think that as far as we have come in our society there is so much shame and secrecy around miscarriage, still births and pregnancy loss that it hurts women emotionally and otherwise. 

Our culture has come a long away in discussing adoption or infertility but not pregnancy loss which intrigues me. 

I'm only bringing this here because the mod on the Austin/Joy topic asked personal stuff to be moved here.

The public only wants to hear about adoption or infertility if it's a feel good story - if there's success.  If there's not, be prepraed for judgement city.  Those who return adopted children due to a myriad of reasons are often shamed in to obilivion.  Yes, adoption is serious and should not be taken lightly, but if you find out you genuinely can't bond with your child, or there are issues (disclosed or undisclosed), etc, then I'd rather see them give the child back than abuse it or give/sell it to someone else who isn't vetted.  Adoption is often put out as this magical thing where everything is happy and easy.  We need to be more real, and there needs to be a lot of support in place for those who adopt.

As for infertility (I live it), if you opt to not do treatments (or treatments fail and you give up), and opt to/are disqualified from adoption (due to archaic regulations which do not disqualify many who should be), then you are cast in to a bizarro world where you're pretty much not allowed to feel anything about anything.  They'll tell you that they pit you because you're not able to "experience true love" or God's blessings (and if you say anything about it, you're bitter and hateful), and that you'll die alone since you have no children to care for you.  Your parents will get pity (especially if you're an only child) because you are missing out on being a Grandparent, which is the best thing ever, apparently.  If you rail slightly at being all 100% happy about others having babies, you're shamed.  You're expected to sit at events like church while mothers are put on a pedestal and asked to stand up and be recognized.  You get judgement if you decide to skip a baby shower - you just need to get over it.

You'll get so much unsolicited advice that your head will spin.  We tried to adopt and were disqualified because we didn't own our own home and didn't have at least $10,000 of disposable income, and we had health problems several generations back in the family.  The only way around it is International adoption, and we can't afford that.  We opted not to do IVF because insurance wouldn't cover the testing or treatments, and we didn't have a ton of disposable income to do it.  To top it off, we were advised we were not good candidates, so why bother?  I don't need that kind of repeated heartache.  When it's explained to people that we'd essentially like to stop talking about it, we get a sneer, and a comment that we must not like kids.  WTF???

I'm NOT saying people can't be happy about their kids and grandkids.  Please, be happy.  I'm only saying that the next time you want to offer unsolicited advice to someone who struggles with fertility (not matter what your cousin's husband's roommate's best friend from elementary school did), or want to send them some pity (see: not knowing love or dying alone above), or want to spout off in church about how motherhood is the ultimate blessing from God and want to marginalize those who suffer even further by having them stay seated, then take two seconds to reconsider.  Ask yourself: What makes the infertile un-worthy of God's blessings/true love/etc.  If you have no answer (and you won't), then re-think your comment.

Not directed at anyone here.  Just venting in general.

Edited by funky-rat
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

@funky-rat I get what you’re saying. I’m childfree and people have so many opinions about that (I cannot wait until menopause). I’m sorry people are ridiculous.

I honestly think our culture talks more about adoption and infertility these days because there is MONEY to be made from it. A LOT of money. Those that profit changed the cultural story. In the 1970s/1980s people thought IVF was something out of a horror movie- within one generation the vast majority of society is fine with it- likely because of the narrative created around those who profited financially from the technology (not a criticism against individual people who used IVF, I’m talking about the cultural story that shamed women for their barrenness- ya know cause it’s always our fault). 

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wilsie

wilsie

@funky-rat I'm so sorry for all that you've gone through.  So many times, people, myself included, just don't think about what they say and it can be so hurtful, especially when you're struggling through very serious life difficulties.   

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Suzn

Suzn

21 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I'm only bringing this here because the mod on the Austin/Joy topic asked personal stuff to be moved here.

The public only wants to hear about adoption or infertility if it's a feel good story - if there's success.  If there's not, be prepraed for judgement city.  Those who return adopted children due to a myriad of reasons are often shamed in to obilivion.  Yes, adoption is serious and should not be taken lightly, but if you find out you genuinely can't bond with your child, or there are issues (disclosed or undisclosed), etc, then I'd rather see them give the child away than abuse it or give/sell it to someone else who isn't vetted.  Adoption is often put out as this magical thing where everything is happy and easy.  We need to be more real, and there needs to be a lot of support in place for those who adopt.

As for infertility (I live it), if you opt to not do treatments (or treatments fail and you give up), and opt to/are disqualified from adoption (due to archaic regulations which do not disqualify many who should be), then you are cast in to a bizarro world where you're pretty much not allowed to feel anything about anything.  They'll tell you that they pit you because you're not able to "experience true love" or God's blessings (and if you say anything about it, you're bitter and hateful), and that you'll die alone since you have no children to care for you.  Your parents will get pity (especially if you're an only child) because you are missing out on being a Grandparent, which is the best thing ever, apparently.  If you rail slightly at being all 100% happy about others having babies, you're shamed.  You're expected to sit at events like church while mothers are put on a pedestal and asked to stand up and be recognized.  You get judgement if you decide to skip a baby shower - you just need to get over it.

You'll get so much unsolicited advice that your head will spin.  We tried to adopt and were disqualified because we didn't own our own home and didn't have at least $10,000 of disposable income, and we had health problems several generations back in the family.  The only way around it is International adoption, and we can't afford that.  We opted not to do IVF because insurance wouldn't cover the testing or treatments, and we didn't have a ton of disposable income to do it.  To top it off, we were advised we were not good candidates, so why bother?  I don't need that kind of repeated heartache.  When it's explained to people that we'd essentially like to stop talking about it, we get a sneer, and a comment that we must not like kids.  WTF???

I'm NOT saying people can't be happy about their kids and grandkids.  Please, be happy.  I'm only saying that the next time you want to offer unsolicited advice to someone who struggles with fertility (not matter what your cousin's husband's roommate's best friend from elementary school did), or want to send them some pity (see: not knowing love or dying alone above), or want to spout off in church about how motherhood is the ultimate blessing from God and want to marginalize those who suffer even further by having them stay seated, then take two seconds to reconsider.  Ask yourself: What makes the infertile un-worthy of God's blessings/true love/etc.  If you have no answer (and you won't), then re-think your comment.

Not directed at anyone here.  Just venting in general.

I'm sorry you've been subjected to so much ridiculous judgement.  Whether someone is childless by choice or chance, it is no one's business.  If it is by choice, it is a reasonable choice that should not need explanation or justification.  If is by chance, it may be a painful situation that doesn't need to have anyone pile on more hurt.  

The worship of motherhood is also ridiculous. Accomplishing the biological function of becoming a mother does not bestow sainthood.  I think a lot of that attitude is overcompensating because not everyone with children is enjoying the experience that much.  It's a hard job and is filled with difficulties and heartache.

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funky-rat

funky-rat

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@funky-rat I get what you’re saying. I’m childfree and people have so many opinions about that (I cannot wait until menopause). I’m sorry people are ridiculous.

I honestly think our culture talks more about adoption and infertility these days because there is MONEY to be made from it. A LOT of money. Those that profit changed the cultural story. In the 1970s/1980s people thought IVF was something out of a horror movie- within one generation the vast majority of society is fine with it- likely because of the narrative created around those who profited financially from the technology (not a criticism against individual people who used IVF, I’m talking about the cultural story that shamed women for their barrenness- ya know cause it’s always our fault). 

Pretty much.  I mentioned in another board once, after someone accusing me of not liking kids, that I like kids, but dislike that they're some sort of commodity in modern society that worth and value are measured against.

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funky-rat

funky-rat

Just now, Suzn said:

I'm sorry you've been subjected to so much ridiculous judgement.  Whether someone is childless by choice or chance, it is no one's business.  If it is by choice, it is a reasonable choice that should not need explanation or justification.  If is by chance, it may be a painful situation that doesn't need to have anyone pile on more hurt.  

The worship of motherhood is also ridiculous. Accomplishing the biological function of becoming a mother does not bestow sainthood.  I think a lot of that attitude is overcompensating because not everyone with children is enjoying the experience that much.  It's a hard job and is filled with difficulties and heartache.

Yes!  You get it.  To insinuate that worshipping motherhood is ludicrous will get you plenty of hate nowadays.  

7 minutes ago, wilsie said:

@funky-rat I'm so sorry for all that you've gone through.  So many times, people, myself included, just don't think about what they say and it can be so hurtful, especially when you're struggling through very serious life difficulties.   

I get that.  I totally do.  But any time I try to do a "Just think for a moment before speaking" post somewhere, I get jumped on badly and called all manner of rude names, so I just gave up.  I used to share memes about things like joke "April Fool" pregnancy posts, and again, was told to suck it up because I can't exprect people to change their happiness for me.  I'm not.  Just think before you speak.  It's actually good practice for all kinds of things.

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Natalie68

Natalie68

On 7/5/2019 at 8:35 PM, Zella said:

Yikes! Hope all of you folk out west are okay. I've never been in an earthquake but was always freaked out by my parents' stories about going through them when they were living in California during the 80s. 

I am a lifelong resident of CA and THIS one freaked me out.  First time I was ready to dive under my dining room table.  Started slow and then just kept getting stronger.  Hope everyone is ok!!

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Suzn

Suzn

1 minute ago, funky-rat said:

Yes!  You get it.  To insinuate that worshipping motherhood is ludicrous will get you plenty of hate nowadays.  

A benefit of getting old is not giving a shit about having an unpopular opinion.  Often it is unpopular because the truth hurts.

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Natalie68

Natalie68

On 7/6/2019 at 2:15 PM, Rescue Mama said:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start "Butt-gate".  It was just something I remembered Joe saying about him. 

Some things just need to be known.  HA!

On 7/6/2019 at 2:49 PM, GeeGolly said:

Yikes tsunami advisory now. I hope all you in CA are safe.

Small head here. Long and narrow.

I didn't hear about that!  But our local news stinks.  During our past fires I had to watch LA news to find out what was happening (I am in Santa Barbara).

5 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Heading off for my surgery in a little bit...wish me luck! I'll check back in when I get a chance.

You are in my thoughts!!!

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jcbrown

jcbrown

3 hours ago, Suzn said:

I'm sorry you've been subjected to so much ridiculous judgement.  Whether someone is childless by choice or chance, it is no one's business.  If it is by choice, it is a reasonable choice that should not need explanation or justification.  If is by chance, it may be a painful situation that doesn't need to have anyone pile on more hurt.  

The worship of motherhood is also ridiculous. Accomplishing the biological function of becoming a mother does not bestow sainthood.  I think a lot of that attitude is overcompensating because not everyone with children is enjoying the experience that much.  It's a hard job and is filled with difficulties and heartache.

Agree on both points. My husband and I decided to remain childfree. I can't tell you how infuriating it was to have people smugly assure me that I would change my mind. Such a condescending and vile thing to say. I don't know why people think it is okay to comment on the reproductive choices of others.

And yes, the fetishizing of motherhood is also very annoying.

Sending you positive vibes, @Jynnan tonnix. I hope things go completely smoothly and you get good news.

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Natalie68

Natalie68

39 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

Agree on both points. My husband and I decided to remain childfree. I can't tell you how infuriating it was to have people smugly assure me that I would change my mind. Such a condescending and vile thing to say. I don't know why people think it is okay to comment on the reproductive choices of others.

And yes, the fetishizing of motherhood is also very annoying.

Sending you positive vibes, @Jynnan tonnix. I hope things go completely smoothly and you get good news.

Same here!

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Mindthinkr

Mindthinkr

27 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

I’m losing my hair! I don’t know why... I’m devastated 

Although I agree with @Sew Sumi about getting your thyroid checked, you may also want to consider your nutritional intake. Hair loss is difficult to bear no matter what the cause. I hope you find out the answer quickly so that you feel better about it. 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
3 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Thyroid issues is for endocrinologist?

FWIW, my primary care doctor ran the bloodwork for me to see if I had a thyroid issue. Checked my TSH, T3, and T4. (I didn't have any issues, come to find out. I apparently just have a weird-looking/feeling thyroid that is functional.)

Edited by Zella
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Zella

Zella

(edited)
3 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

My thyroid isn’t good. I’m going Friday to endo. I’m really sick in general. Will tell him about the hair problem.

Hope you can get some answers and get to feeling better soon!

Edited by Zella
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

5 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

My thyroid isn’t good. I’m going Friday to endo. I’m really sick in general. Will tell him about the hair problem.

Other thyroid tells are sudden weight gain and brittle nails. If you have all three symptoms, it's a good chance that your thyroid is out of whack.

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

17 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Thyroid issues is for endocrinologist?

Not necessarily. If you have a good primary care doctor start there and say you want all the levels tested not just the TSH

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Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45

This is a reminder that the Politics Policy is still in effect.

I understand with recent current events there may be a desire to discuss political social media posts of those in the Duggar realm- this is not the place for those discussions. If you believe someone has violated forum rules, report them, do not respond or engage.

Political discussion is not allowed in this forum- this includes Small Talk topics. Please stay in the spirit of the policy- I have noticed a tendency for some to follow the letter but not the spirit.

Guest

While we understand the frustration (change is never easy), please keep in mind that not everyone feels the same way and that for those members who don't, the ongoing conversation about other forums and chat options can equally be a cause of frustration.

Out of respect for your fellow posters, we kindly ask that you continue any discussion about alternatives via PM or the Technically Speaking: Bugs, Questions, & Suggestions area.

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