Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

Happyfatchick · December 28, 2015

OH! I almost forgot (until I saw it): the hubs and I agreed NOT to get anything for each other this year. We've done that before, but he always "panic buys" something because he believes I'm going to give him "something". I didn't this year. (I made him buckeyes, does that count?). But on one of my break-and-run trips to the house after Christmas, I noticed there was a package under tree for me.

He bought me a BROWN comforter. BROWN. Brown-nuh. Dirt brown.

Seriously, I am not a brown girl. I've never bought a brown item in my life for my own clothing, or for my home. I don't DO brown. I have cottage colors through out my home, sea breeze cool colors with accents of turquoise and dark teals. (And I incorporate some chili pepper red into every room as well. My favorite furniture item is my chili pepper love seat). But: Brown. What the heck, man??? It never ceases to amaze me that 2 people can live together for a decade and a half and have NO CLUE. But, thankfully, I saw some humor there. In fact, I burst out laughing. He invites the big dogs to sleep with him every night. Not only tolerates it, but encourages it - which does, in fact, factor in to why we don't share bed space. I don't love fighting big, sleepy, ornery dogs for space and covers. Plus, they're DOGS. A dirt brown comforter is an EXCELLENT idea for him. So right there on the spot, it was regifted. SCORE!!!

Happyfatchick · December 28, 2015

I have no idea why this posted many, many times. Sorry!!!

Edited December 28, 2015 by Happyfatchick

Skittl1321 · December 28, 2015

So again, I once read that Xmas ends in the US on 26th Dec when people go back to work? Does it? Here, we have Xmas eve, when we have pressies etc and then 2 Bank Holidays. Kids off school til about 6th January usually.

Shops don't really decorate now that I think of it, a bit perhaps, but they do start selling Xmas stuff around Mid September. Are there special sweets or cakes or something in the US that you only get for Christmas? We have plenty so here. And now they'll all be sold off at cut price.

Taking down tree etc before 6th Jan is soooooooooo bad juju ;-)))) I've never done it, ever. It's just tradition. Just as putting your tree up a day or two before Christmas eve would be, although the american influence is here now as well.

We never took down the tree before the Epiphany. Dh's family though took it down the day after Christmas. He and I usually put the tree up the day after Thanksgiving and take it down after the Epiphany. This year we didn't put up a tree or any decorations other than simple lights on the bushes. After losing the baby, we just didn't have it in us.

Not entirely sure when kids go back to school, as I don't have them; probably around January 4th or 6th or so.

Work though I've always had to work either Christmas Eve or the day after Christmas (unless it was a weekend)- usually got one or the other off. Most people take vacation days then though. Today I am the only person in the office because people are either on vacation or took weather days because of the ice storm.

I can't think of any holiday treat that is sold you can't get other times of year. Maybe eggnog, but even that sometimes you can find at Walmart year round. Mostly people just bake cookies and fudge a lot more than normal.

emma675 · December 28, 2015

I have this week off (although I'll be checking my work email on my phone a few times a day) and I've already purged my closet for Salvation Army, thereby opening up space for new clothes to be bought. I'm down about two sizes and need to buy some smaller clothes that actually fit. I didn't realize how tops that don't fit make you look larger than you are until I saw Christmas pics. Yikes.

I'm currently watching "Clue" and plan to binge watch "Jessica Jones" at some point this week. We had 70's on Christmas, tornadoes the day after and now we've got a dusting of snow. I'm really over weather at this point. The dog and I are curled up with the heater going and I only plan on leaving the house once tomorrow for a facial. I've never been a big New Year's Eve person, so it's going to be a nice, quiet week.

Marigold · December 28, 2015

I put up a tree with lights. No decorations on the tree. I like it like that. Simple. A Nativity set. Some lights outside and that's it.

No time, no money and no energy.

Barb23 · December 28, 2015

Barb23 I know you have to rely on others but just an FYI Bath and Body Works will exchange scents for you with no receipt. I love BBW and usually gets gifts through the year but Im not a fan of the scents. In Nov I exchanged about ten items, lotions, shower gels and the fragrance bulbs with no problem. When my MIL was alive I had your same experiences with gifts. My FIL now gives us gift cards, although we get him lots of small useful and fun gifts for him to unwrap. 85% of my extended family are all JW so as far as gifts its our immediate family and a few friends for the most part. It's been about five years since hubby and I were able to give each other nice gifts. I got a new purse, wallet and a pair of earrings. So exciting! And I am a member of another social media group, we did a Secret Santa, just fun little gifts. My three were perfect and made me happy as a kid when I was opening them! Overall we had a fun holiday with our loved ones. the kids said it was the best Christmas ever so that is all that matters.

Thanks for the advice. I'm planning on giving my sister the BBW gift set to return the next time she is at the mall. I may have her exchange it for liquid soaps- I can always use them. Just nooooo lotion. Lol.

Cherrio · December 28, 2015

Ok,

I thought I saw a thread about Mormons here in Duggarland. I opened another to read first, then went back to read the new Mormon thread but its gone now.

Was it here or do I have to call the men in the white jackets to pick me up?

Almost 3000 · December 28, 2015

Ok,

I thought I saw a thread about Mormons here in Duggarland. I opened another to read first, then went back to read the new Mormon thread but its gone now.

Was it here or do I have to call the men in the white jackets to pick me up?

I've noticed a time or two that someone will start a new thread with a question or comment that really should be filed under an existing topic so the mods move it. One just recently, but I've forgotten what it was so maybe that was it.

NikSac · December 28, 2015

I saw the Mormon one. It really had nothing to do with the Duggars, so I assume it was either deleted or moved to the appropriate location. No need for the men in white jackets!

Missy Vixen · December 28, 2015

We had a very quiet Christmas. I haz the RA as well, so decorating/baking/huge amounts of cooking really don't work for me these days. Next year, however, I am going to try something different. I missed having a tree and seeing the lights. Even more, I missed visiting with those we only see a few times a year. I think I'd like to have a small gathering on Christmas Day (or as close as possible) next year. I'm going to Hell for this one, but I don't want to invite our family members. I don't want to deal with the drama. If I can figure out how to get it all done a little at a time, hopefully I can make it work.

I got a text from my husband's aunt on Christmas morning. One of our cousins wrote some things on her Facebook page a few months ago that I wondered about, and we aren't close enough to call and ask. In other words, she and her husband split up. My husband's family wants to tell everyone how "close" they are, but they don't talk to the extended family. So, I called the aunt a couple of months ago to confirm that _____________ and her husband had split up so I wouldn't stick my foot in my mouth the next time I saw her. The aunt told me she was "too busy to talk to me". And i get a text on Christmas morning stating that "since the stroke" (What? We had no idea) it's too tiring for her to talk on the phone. She still wants to go out for pizza with us soon, however.

What?

Speaking of working, I'll be working this week. I hope everyone is having a great and relaxing week after Christmas. ;-)

toodles · December 28, 2015

I'm glad I came to this thread because it gives me the chance to drag out my soapbox. The name on this soapbox is Why Is This My Job? Christmas is a huge job, especially when you have kids. Every year the stakes are raised, so it's not about having a nice Christmas. It's about having a magical Christmas. The magazines and the tv shows start in about October and the message is clear. If you were just a little more organized, if you got up an extra 15 minutes earlier, you could create the perfect Christmas. You could make cookies every day. You could entertain the entire neighborhood with the perfect open house. You could plan a different theme for your Christmas every year. You could hide the damn elf. Your tree could look like it came from Rockefeller Center. If only you were just a little better.

I was on that hamster wheel, but no more. It stressed me out. Christmas is a time for family. My family didn't help with the decorations so I gave up. I do what makes me happy now. I put up a small tree and a few decorations. I remember my husband inviting his family for Christmas dinner and doing the shopping, cooking, wrapping, buying and all the rest and going to work the next day. It's just crazy. I know Christmas is once a year, but it shouldn't be so hard.

I'm going to put my soapbox away now. Whew. I feel ever so much better.

Micks Picks · December 28, 2015

Missy Vixen you get the prize for bizarre. I can't imagine such strange things. WTF pizza? I'd be too tongue tied to even ask a question.

Joe Jitsu913 · December 28, 2015

I've posted in the past about my bf's wacky, cat hoarding grandmother and her Christmas "gifts". One year, it was windshield washer fluid, another year it was little kid's gloves.

Well, this year I got a scarf and a big, glittery nativity set. I'm not religious. On the bottom of the nativity set, she wrote: God Bless America!! I showed it to my Jewish cousin who found it amusing.

My mom suggested I leave it on the table for my cats to knock it over.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Joe Jitsu913

Cherrio · December 28, 2015

I saw the Mormon one. It really had nothing to do with the Duggars, so I assume it was either deleted or moved to the appropriate location. No need for the men in white jackets!

Thank you Almost and Nik. I was a little worried there. Now, please excuse me while I get back to putting tin foil on my doors and windows. :)

Missy Vixen · December 29, 2015

I'm glad I came to this thread because it gives me the chance to drag out my soapbox. The name on this soapbox is Why Is This My Job?

You stand on that soapbox any time you want, because it is the TRUTH. Women are responsible for Christmas because they know how disappointed the kids/their families would be if it doesn't happen. I'm sorry if that's a gross generalization. I realize that there are men who do the whole thing because they are forced into it, but the women I know spend a huge amount of time and effort making sure the holidays are wonderful for their families with NO help or even an acknowledgement.

I really can't drag myself through the mall or even the grocery store like I used to, but I have to deal with dinner/gifts/decorations because my husband is oblivious. Example: I ordered his Christmas gifts in September. I wanted to make sure I had them in plenty of time. I sent him to the store with a list for dinner. If he had no list, God knows what he would come home with. (He decided he wanted a prime rib, for instance. It's two of us. YOU WOULD FAINT if I told you how much he spent on a piece of meat.) Decorations? He complains until I end up doing it myself or just bag it.

My husband had a (short) list of items I'd like to receive for Christmas before Thanksgiving, ALL available at Amazon. Click, click, right? Guess when he ordered them? Late afternoon on December 23rd. He then realized there was nothing for me to open on Christmas, so he went "shopping" at 2:30 PM on Christmas Eve after playing games on his computer for the entire day. I was working.

Seriously, I wonder what would happen to the holiday "industry" if women banded together and refused to participate for one year.

Missy Vixen you get the prize for bizarre. I can't imagine such strange things. WTF pizza? I'd be too tongue tied to even ask a question.

Dumb question: How would she be able to go out for pizza if she is so debilitated she can't manage a five-minute phone call?

And yeah, I'm a bit confused as well. ;-)

XinaMarie · December 29, 2015

I guess I am a martyr because I totally agree with all of the above, but I play the game anyway. Big time. I have done it so many years in a row that I have the timeline on what and when to do it all worked out and it goes smoothly, but it is a lot of hard work. I start preparing a month before everyone gets here with shopping, wrapping and decorating because then I have to go into buying all the food and prepping the menus. And cleaning out the fridge and the pantry to accommodate all the groceries I need for 13 adults and 8 children from 12/22-12/27. For three years in a row my mother has wanted to go caroling --- which is another activity that has to be organized by picking out songs and getting copies of the sheet music together -- and I have blown her off due to the sheer embarrassment of it all. So this year I invited some friends over who are ringers to help sing, so it turned into a party. So a party in the middle of entertaining my family so my mother can get her caroling dream. It was such a success she wants to do it again next year. Sigh.

Everything is very organized until my sister who is closest in age to me leaves. She comes before Christmas and leaves Christmas eve. After that the wheels fall off the bus because her husband is the kitchen cleaner and she is my personal assistant who keeps me on point and organized to tackle the next thing. My other sisters are helpful but it isn't the same. My mother over promises and under delivers. She likes to find thing to do out of the house and stays lost for hours because she cannot take all the screaming and crying of the little ones. She totally checks out at Christmas. She hosts Thanksgiving, but after that she is done. Luckily, she writes me a check to underwrite some of the cost of the food because I am feeding a platoon and even though I shop sales and use coupons (more added stress I put upon myself) it still is very expensive.

That one BIL is the only male that does anything the entire time they are here, my brother, father, husband and two other brothers in law do nothing. I was struggling to get my child in bed and Mr XM told me he would take care of cleaning up the kitchen. At 10:00 PM Christmas eve I come out to a full pan of lasagna, dishes everywhere, cookies out, cups and empty cans all over the family room. He was asleep in a chair. So I cleaned everything and then put out the gifts and went to bed at 1:00 am. I was up at 5:30 when the first kids got up. My mother was in charge of breakfast and made some coffee cake, but took the quiche out of the freezer and put it on top of the counter. I finally had to pop that in the oven as it was apparent she was never going to do it. No way to eat an egg ice cube. I kept complaining about my feet and how tired I was and all I got was mocking from him.

We saw Christmas lights, had a visit with Santa, hosted a Christmas caroling party, had prime rib and smoked turkey with mashed potatoes, green beans and spring mix salad with raspberry vinaigrette and blue cheese crumbles, signature cocktails made for every night, a karaoke night for the kids and adults, and yes the damn holiday scented hand soaps which we plowed through because we have so many hands to wash. I want the magic and I am the only one with enough oomph to make it happen.

I am very tired and would love more than a day and a half to recuperate, but now we have to go out of town to Mr XM's parents' place for New Year's. That is no vacation at all either for various reasons. I am so busy hosting, that I barely get a chance to sit and enjoy the company. Next year Mr XM says he wants to spend it with his family and I was mad at the suggestion. In some sick way, I must enjoy all of this.

Edited December 29, 2015 by XinaMarie

toodles · December 29, 2015

You stand on that soapbox any time you want, because it is the TRUTH. Women are responsible for Christmas because they know how disappointed the kids/their families would be if it doesn't happen. I'm sorry if that's a gross generalization. I realize that there are men who do the whole thing because they are forced into it, but the women I know spend a huge amount of time and effort making sure the holidays are wonderful for their families with NO help or even an acknowledgement.
MY RESPONSE

Thank you for agreeing with me. People seem to think it happens by magic. Men get off so easy because no one expects them to do anything for the holidays. I won't get my soapbox out again, except to say I'm going to spend thanksgiving binge watching Fargo next year. I don't like sports. Someone else can worry about dinner. I've decided it's not my job anymore.

quotes don't always work on my Kindle.

NJRach · December 29, 2015

Women are responsible for Christmas because they know how disappointed the kids/their families would be if it doesn't happen

Amen to that Toodles. You nailed it. I never thought what Christmas would be like if it was left up to the men. It is a truly horrifying thought to ponder (as I sit half-dead on the sofa watching the Gilmore Girls and trying to shake off the stress of entertaining, cooking, cleaning, shopping and pressing family members into service the last ten days).

Edited December 29, 2015 by NJRach

kalamac · December 29, 2015

I had a nice quiet Christmas, and then went to Star Wars again on boxing day. It was lovely.

Readalot · December 29, 2015

Yup. I do it all too. We had an artificial tree, about 15 years old. 9 ft tall. A PAIN to put together and string the lights on. And it itches me like crazy. This year I told hubby I'm not doing it. And since I've been working a lot I was buying a three piece lit tree this year. He said no, we have a perfectly good tree. I said ok YOU put it together, light it and decorate and reverse after the holidays. He hemmed and hawed. I got the new tree. We gave our old tree, along with lights, to a local family who could not afford one this year. - I do it for the kids and they love it all the traditions. Ever year "is the best Christmas!" so I'm doing it right. Plus our dads are almost 80, so I want to make the holidays extra special when we are together.

Micks Picks · December 29, 2015

We have to make sure that our standards are not impossible. If we take over too much, nobody will take initiative for fear of doing it wrong. If something doesn't get done, it just doesn't get done. The heck with it.

GeeGolly · December 29, 2015

I have done less and less as the years have past. By the time my kids were high schoolers we were down to a tree & stockings and a wreath on the door. After the dreaded storm we only hung stockings. This year we didn't even do that, we just used holiday gift bags and called it a day.

And like most of you it has been primarily my job to make Christmas happen. My husband has actually said during more than one holiday season, "I've been so busy and stressed at work and have only had a chance to get you a couple of things." Really?! Because I have all these added hours to my stress free days at Christmas time.

frenchtoast · December 29, 2015

I only got receipts for Christmas this year, but hubby has been exceptionally busy and the kids are still too young to have access to credit cards. BUT, hubby helps cook (actually he looks forward to it!) and he helps decorate. I told him we didn't have to put up some sets of lights outside, but he wanted to because he loves it. The one thing he didn't do this year was set up the train and village around the tree because of the new dogs. But my friends and family make sure to help clean up during the big meal too. My mom has said, "You put all this work into cooking, I will do the dishes." Somehow between offering and me asking it all gets done.

It's still tiring, but I feel pretty lucky even so .

XinaMarie · December 29, 2015

Women really are the social glue that keep families together. They do it through upholding these traditions, keeping in touch, and you know, making an effort. My husband is a horrible communicator with me and with his own family. I never know what is going on with him or them or what they are doing. I guess it is because I always assumed I would get my information from him, I don't feel very close to them at all. There are two girls and one boy. The girl keeps in very good contact with the family and Mr XM's brother lives very close to her so they keep in contact with each other. His mother and father live about 10 miles from us, but we never see them. I think it is weird. Anyway, I suppose I should have become the communicator with them, but I am kind of a phone phobe.

Compare that with my family. There are 5 girls. We communicate and tell each other everything. We have an email group and we talk about our home improvement projects, things the kids do and say, what we bought at the store, vacations we are planning, etc. We offer advise and ask advice. We are each other's cheerleaders. All of this I am sure has to do with my parents' parenting style, but to keep it together as adults, there has to be someone making an effort to keep it all together with opportunities to visit and communicate. I just think women will go to the effort and care more. Or maybe we are conditioned to do this.

I guess I am realizing it now, but I feel like I am the one that puts out the most effort. Maybe that is because I am the oldest. We host a beach get together for a few days every year and Christmas at our house. I used to call a family member every day to chat while I drove in to pick up my daughter from school (half an hour drive) and I realized I was always doing the calling and no one ever picked up the phone to call me to chat. So as an experiment, I stopped calling. And I was right. No one called for two months. It kind of popped my bubble and it made me pretty sad to realize that apparently I need them more than they need me.

Jynnan tonnix · December 29, 2015

You stand on that soapbox any time you want, because it is the TRUTH. Women are responsible for Christmas because they know how disappointed the kids/their families would be if it doesn't happen. I'm sorry if that's a gross generalization. I realize that there are men who do the whole thing because they are forced into it, but the women I know spend a huge amount of time and effort making sure the holidays are wonderful for their families with NO help or even an acknowledgement.
MY RESPONSE

Thank you for agreeing with me. People seem to think it happens by magic. Men get off so easy because no one expects them to do anything for the holidays. I won't get my soapbox out again, except to say I'm going to spend thanksgiving binge watching Fargo next year. I don't like sports. Someone else can worry about dinner. I've decided it's not my job anymore.

quotes don't always work on my Kindle.

All these stories of having to do Christmas unaided make me appreciate that though my husband has many faults, when it comes to prep work for holidays and other entertaining he pitches in and morphs into a perfect host (if only he was as pleasant all the time as he is when we have company, I would not have a complaint in the world). The things left to me are the ones which get left undone half the time. He gets the tree up, and whatever kids we have in the area (as a recently retired military family with a son also in the military, there were stretches where we didn't have all 3 of them in the same place for Christmas for a while) put up the ornaments. He puts up outdoor decorations when we have them, and actually makes wreaths every year. He helps with a lot of last-minute cleaning when I've procrastinated for too long and guests are imminent (though he does complain about that!). I do all the cooking, which is my strong point, and put out interior decorations (this years' never got done - the bins are still in the living room, send out cards on the average of once every three or four years (none this year) and do the bulk of the Christmas shopping (we mostly did just stocking-stuffers this year) - but that said, it's been an extremely non-festive year for a variety of reasons, from the weather just not feeling like Christmas to my father's recent quintuple bypass and having to visit with him both in the hospital and now rehab almost every day, to adjusting to life on a retiree pension (generous, but still quite a bit below what we have been used to) and a very senior cat probably on her last legs...not the sort of horror-story scenarios s many people here have been relating, but still enough to put a damper on things.

Speaking of the cat, she is just a couple of months shy of turning 18, and has been getting very skinny over the past couple of years...She was actually at the vet's back in August or thereabouts, and had a bunch of blood work done which didn't show ay major problems other that a bit of a borderline kidney issue which we got her some prescription food for, plus ongoing arthritis which we also got some supplements for and issues where she stopped wanting to use her litterbox, which have been the most bothersome to deal with. She rallied almost immediately and actually put on a bit of weight - was wanting to eat all the time - and looking very bight-eyed, but toward Thanksgiving started eating a bit less again, though that's been her pattern for the past few years, so we didn't think that much of it. She got outside about 2 weeks ago and was out there for a couple of hours before we noticed/found her, and it was about that time that she really started deteriorating, though we don't know whether the two are related...she did definitely have a couple of very bad days throwing up everything including any water she drank over the weekend, and we were going to take her to the vet's then, but she seemed better by that Monday and interested in eating again, so we held off. But she's definitely lost even more weight since, does not even try to come upstairs (she used to sleep with us all the time), sleeps almost constantly (which, being that she is a cat to start with is not THAT unusual!), only really eats the gravy on her cat food, and her eyes are just dull and crusty. Plus she has almost given up on using her litterbox at all, and tends toward loose stools so it's a constant battle to have my floors clean and house not smelling of cat pee, etc... We have another vet appointment this afternoon, and are not entirely sure that she will be coming back home from it :(

Tabbygirl521 · December 29, 2015

JynnanTonnix, I am so very sorry to hear about your kitty. I just wanted to say I understand, and will be thinking of you.

My own senior cat is heading down the path, too - losing weight despite still eating like a horse, and the vet can't find a reason. He also has renal insufficiency (started giving him subcutaneous fluids at home just yesterday). This doesn't explain why he isn't absorbing nutrients. This is a cat who I believe was sent to me years ago by my departed FIL (long story) and he is my special cat. He is on my lap right now, in fact.

Didn't mean to hijack your story. Just wanted to illustrate that I understand. It is so hard. {{{hugs}}}

Edited December 29, 2015 by Tabbygirl521

lookeyloo · December 29, 2015

Oh my dear cat lover friends. We have had all those situations with the many cats we have adopted over the years. In one house we lived in, we thought we had a hobo signal because all the sick strays found us and we of course adopted them and spent many $$ at the vet. One in particular was a pretty white cat with one blue and one green eye. She "seduced" Mr. lookeyloo and we tried to find her owner with no success. I finally relented and we adopted her, when she promptly hated Mr. lookeyloo and come to find out she had cancer and so we of course nursed her til the end. And Mr. lookeyloo was with her at the end and she seemed okay with that. So yes, we do understand and send ff cyber hugs to JynnanTonnix and Tabbygirl521 and anyone else in similar situation.

Almost 3000 · December 29, 2015

lookyloo ~ Was your white cat with different colored eyes deaf? My friends had a deaf one and their vet said that combination was often deaf. Just wondering because I thought it odd.

I must be a bad pet mommy because 13 seems to be the age my cats and dogs live to. I see here and have many friends with 18YO kitties and it blows my mind.

Jynnan tonnix · December 29, 2015

lookyloo ~ Was your white cat with different colored eyes deaf? My friends had a deaf one and their vet said that combination was often deaf. Just wondering because I thought it odd.

I must be a bad pet mommy because 13 seems to be the age my cats and dogs live to. I see here and have many friends with 18YO kitties and it blows my mind.

I think it's supposed to be the male cats with that combination which are generally deaf, but I could be wrong.

And this is the first pet we have had which lived to this sort of age...the other closest one actually lived with my parents who had taken the two cats we had then for a couple of years while we were stationed in Guam. But since the two of them never particularly got along (the cats, not my parents! lol), we just took one back and they kept the other. The one we kept, which was our first cat when we were married, succumbed to cancer a few years later at the age of 13. The other died of cancer as well, but made it to 16. We also have another cat and a dog at the moment which are 8 and 7 years old respectively.

lookeyloo · December 29, 2015

lookyloo ~ Was your white cat with different colored eyes deaf? My friends had a deaf one and their vet said that combination was often deaf. Just wondering because I thought it odd.

I must be a bad pet mommy because 13 seems to be the age my cats and dogs live to. I see here and have many friends with 18YO kitties and it blows my mind.

Interestingly enough she wasn't deaf. Since we never knew about the cats we acquired, they didn't make it past about 13 or so either. Some much sooner. But, they were street cats looking for suckers and that is what we were. We don't have any furry pets now, just fish. We had a German Shepherd that we kept going until past 13 and Mr. lookeyloo still isn't over that and it was about 6 or so years ago.

Muffyn · December 29, 2015

Actually cats that are all white and have two same colored eyes are more likely to be deaf. There is a exception to this in commonly white breeds obviously. Two different colored eyes in white cats is a genetic trait that seems to make white cats much less likely to be deaf.

When it comes to found or shelter cats, unless a cat is turned in by a person that knows the age (i.e., they got the cat as kitten and have had it five years), the shelters and vets need to estimate the age. Generally they can get a good estimate in cats from birth through 3 years. There are distinct changes that take place in terms of tooth growth, bone growth, alignment of joints and fusing of joints. Between three and ten years it is much harder to estimate. At about ten years again some major changes take place. For those of you with older cats, you often see a change in their gait and a shifting in the hips around this age. It happens gradually so sometimes we don't notice unless you have multiple cats in different age groups. After ten it is again hard to tell. Sometimes the best they can say is "This is a really old cat". For many shelter or found cats the oldest they will list is ten. If the cat was turned in and they have a real age they will use that. When I took home Theo, he was listed as ten years old. In reality he was more likely 15 or 16 at the time; that boy barely had knee caps left. I still had plenty of years with him.

For those of you dealing with older cats losing weight or experiencing digestive issues, if the vet does not find another cause (thyroid, diabetes, etc.) please try switching to a limited ingredient diet. There are brands that offer duck and peas or rabbit and potato. Often older cats will start having reactions to common ingredients in their food. This can help with that. The other issues can be teeth problems, preventing them from eating comfortably. Otherwise the unfortunate thing is cats, like us, age and are subject to illnesses. I always say as long as you gave them a good life (and trust me, you have or you wouldn't be concerned about them) you have done a great thing. Who's a good kitty person? You are!

FYI I volunteered as a trained cat behaviorist and did assessments for a large local shelter for 7 years. The more you know*

Readalot · December 29, 2015

I only got receipts for Christmas this year, but hubby has been exceptionally busy and the kids are still too young to have access to credit cards. BUT, hubby helps cook (actually he looks forward to it!) and he helps decorate. I told him we didn't have to put up some sets of lights outside, but he wanted to because he loves it. The one thing he didn't do this year was set up the train and village around the tree because of the new dogs. But my friends and family make sure to help clean up during the big meal too. My mom has said, "You put all this work into cooking, I will do the dishes." Somehow between offering and me asking it all gets done.

It's still tiring, but I feel pretty lucky even so .

you know what, I guess I don't do it all, but it feels like it. Hubby is in charge of the outdoor decorating (usually a two day project but this year an hour, our rental doesn't have much of a yard). And for dinner he will peel the bag of potatoes and any other help I need with cooking. Last but not least he will help wrap gifts Christmas Eve. But I do everything else, gift shopping, food shopping, interior decorating, the tree and all it entails, Christmas card design and mailing, party planning, well you get the picture!

All these stories of having to do Christmas unaided make me appreciate that though my husband has many faults, when it comes to prep work for holidays and other entertaining he pitches in and morphs into a perfect host (if only he was as pleasant all the time as he is when we have company, I would not have a complaint in the world). The things left to me are the ones which get left undone half the time. He gets the tree up, and whatever kids we have in the area (as a recently retired military family with a son also in the military, there were stretches where we didn't have all 3 of them in the same place for Christmas for a while) put up the ornaments. He puts up outdoor decorations when we have them, and actually makes wreaths every year. He helps with a lot of last-minute cleaning when I've procrastinated for too long and guests are imminent (though he does complain about that!). I do all the cooking, which is my strong point, and put out interior decorations (this years' never got done - the bins are still in the living room, send out cards on the average of once every three or four years (none this year) and do the bulk of the Christmas shopping (we mostly did just stocking-stuffers this year) - but that said, it's been an extremely non-festive year for a variety of reasons, from the weather just not feeling like Christmas to my father's recent quintuple bypass and having to visit with him both in the hospital and now rehab almost every day, to adjusting to life on a retiree pension (generous, but still quite a bit below what we have been used to) and a very senior cat probably on her last legs...not the sort of horror-story scenarios s many people here have been relating, but still enough to put a damper on things.

Speaking of the cat, she is just a couple of months shy of turning 18, and has been getting very skinny over the past couple of years...She was actually at the vet's back in August or thereabouts, and had a bunch of blood work done which didn't show ay major problems other that a bit of a borderline kidney issue which we got her some prescription food for, plus ongoing arthritis which we also got some supplements for and issues where she stopped wanting to use her litterbox, which have been the most bothersome to deal with. She rallied almost immediately and actually put on a bit of weight - was wanting to eat all the time - and looking very bight-eyed, but toward Thanksgiving started eating a bit less again, though that's been her pattern for the past few years, so we didn't think that much of it. She got outside about 2 weeks ago and was out there for a couple of hours before we noticed/found her, and it was about that time that she really started deteriorating, though we don't know whether the two are related...she did definitely have a couple of very bad days throwing up everything including any water she drank over the weekend, and we were going to take her to the vet's then, but she seemed better by that Monday and interested in eating again, so we held off. But she's definitely lost even more weight since, does not even try to come upstairs (she used to sleep with us all the time), sleeps almost constantly (which, being that she is a cat to start with is not THAT unusual!), only really eats the gravy on her cat food, and her eyes are just dull and crusty. Plus she has almost given up on using her litterbox at all, and tends toward loose stools so it's a constant battle to have my floors clean and house not smelling of cat pee, etc... We have another vet appointment this afternoon, and are not entirely sure that she will be coming back home from it :(

I am so so sorry. I hope the vet can make her comfortable. (((Hugs)))

JynnanTonnix, I am so very sorry to hear about your kitty. I just wanted to stay I understand, and will be thinking of you.

My own senior cat is heading down the path, too - losing weight despite still eating like a horse, and the vet can't find a reason. He also has renal insufficiency (started giving him subcutaneous fluids at home just yesterday). This doesn't explain why he isn't absorbing nutrients. This is a cat who I believe was sent to me years ago by my departed FIL (long story) and he is my special cat. He is on my lap right now, in fact.

Didn't mean to hijack your story. Just wanted to illustrate that I understand. It is so hard. {{{hugs}}}

(((hugs))) I wish I had a magic wand that I could wave that would make our pets healthy forever (and one for humans would be great too!)

MarysWetBar · December 29, 2015

All these stories of having to do Christmas unaided make me appreciate that though my husband has many faults, when it comes to prep work for holidays and other entertaining he pitches in and morphs into a perfect host (if only he was as pleasant all the time as he is when we have company, I would not have a complaint in the world). The things left to me are the ones which get left undone half the time. He gets the tree up, and whatever kids we have in the area (as a recently retired military family with a son also in the military, there were stretches where we didn't have all 3 of them in the same place for Christmas for a while) put up the ornaments. He puts up outdoor decorations when we have them, and actually makes wreaths every year. He helps with a lot of last-minute cleaning when I've procrastinated for too long and guests are imminent (though he does complain about that!). I do all the cooking, which is my strong point, and put out interior decorations (this years' never got done - the bins are still in the living room, send out cards on the average of once every three or four years (none this year) and do the bulk of the Christmas shopping (we mostly did just stocking-stuffers this year) - but that said, it's been an extremely non-festive year for a variety of reasons, from the weather just not feeling like Christmas to my father's recent quintuple bypass and having to visit with him both in the hospital and now rehab almost every day, to adjusting to life on a retiree pension (generous, but still quite a bit below what we have been used to) and a very senior cat probably on her last legs...not the sort of horror-story scenarios s many people here have been relating, but still enough to put a damper on things.

Speaking of the cat, she is just a couple of months shy of turning 18, and has been getting very skinny over the past couple of years...She was actually at the vet's back in August or thereabouts, and had a bunch of blood work done which didn't show ay major problems other that a bit of a borderline kidney issue which we got her some prescription food for, plus ongoing arthritis which we also got some supplements for and issues where she stopped wanting to use her litterbox, which have been the most bothersome to deal with. She rallied almost immediately and actually put on a bit of weight - was wanting to eat all the time - and looking very bight-eyed, but toward Thanksgiving started eating a bit less again, though that's been her pattern for the past few years, so we didn't think that much of it. She got outside about 2 weeks ago and was out there for a couple of hours before we noticed/found her, and it was about that time that she really started deteriorating, though we don't know whether the two are related...she did definitely have a couple of very bad days throwing up everything including any water she drank over the weekend, and we were going to take her to the vet's then, but she seemed better by that Monday and interested in eating again, so we held off. But she's definitely lost even more weight since, does not even try to come upstairs (she used to sleep with us all the time), sleeps almost constantly (which, being that she is a cat to start with is not THAT unusual!), only really eats the gravy on her cat food, and her eyes are just dull and crusty. Plus she has almost given up on using her litterbox at all, and tends toward loose stools so it's a constant battle to have my floors clean and house not smelling of cat pee, etc... We have another vet appointment this afternoon, and are not entirely sure that she will be coming back home from it :(

Our Sylvester lived to twenty three years old and at the end he was acting quite a bit like your kitty minus the litterbox accidents.The vet said if he didn't seem to be in pain, to leave him be as we really wanted him at home as long as he wasn't in pain or suffering. He was such a big old tom cat and spent most of his life outdoors taking down rabbits and mice.The day that broke my heart the most was the last time i opened the patio door for him to go out and he looked up at me with his cloudy eyes and just walked back towards to the couch. He knew he could no longer defend himself outside alone so never asked to go out again :(

That poor old guy moved no less than ten times during his life with us and would take exactly ten minutes to adjust himself to his new home. .just a perfect cat in every way.

He was demented at the end and would yowl randomly but not really know what he wanted. .he had cataracts I'm sure. .his hearing was going. .but he kept trucking along. When he quit eating, my oldest moved back in to be with him as he had been the one to bring him home when he was four.

He offered him ice cream right out of his bowl and got him to eat a bit.

To lighten this up a bit...i woke up to the smell of weed on the night he died, and saw sonny boy outside on the glider, with Vesters in his lap, rocking away..likely a scenario they had shared a few times over the years.

God i loved that cat!

My thoughts are with you and hope your kitty can exit as peacefully as my boy did.

Edited December 29, 2015 by MarysWetBar

Micks Picks · December 29, 2015

I am so happy to have found such a wonderful group of people. Those who love their critters and do their best for them when they get old are just the best. My heart and love goes out to all of you and my admiration as well for your efforts to make your cats' lives as good as they can, as long as you can. It's so hard to say goodbye. You all are just superb.

Tabbygirl521 · December 29, 2015

lookyloo ~ Was your white cat with different colored eyes deaf? My friends had a deaf one and their vet said that combination was often deaf. Just wondering because I thought it odd.

I must be a bad pet mommy because 13 seems to be the age my cats and dogs live to. I see here and have many friends with 18YO kitties and it blows my mind.

My vet once told me that, when younger, she had had a cat that she was confident would live to be 20 because after all, she was a vet, right? But when the cat got to be around 12, she started having a lot of the issues that are typical at that age, and failed fairly quickly. Taught the vet that some things are just wired into a creature.

My mom was once adopted by a cat that insisted on remaining an outdoor cat, and would only eat the crappiest cat food. She lived past 20. You just never know.

Muffyn thanks for mentioning limited-ingredient diets. My old guy Nate ate Wellness canned food for ages, then recently our cats took agin it. We found they all love BFF tuna, and tuna/tilapia. I will ask the vet about that. He just had a full exam. His thyroid is fine and his teeth are good, too. He has had IBS and lost weight during a flare up a couple of years ago. But that time he was clearly in pain and lost his appetite, too. This current problem may be related but the treatment would involve steroids, which is contraindicated right now due to a couple other things. Sigh. He is still feeling pretty good so we will keep him happy as long as we can

It is so hard to let them go. I keep reminding myself that it is really a kind of honor to help them pass peacefully, before life is a burden.

Not to equate a cat with my mom, but we saw our mom through her last illness recently. We knew the story could have only one ending but we helped all we could. Her priest said (and she agreed) that we were "walking her to the door." Having loved ones along on that journey is the best any of us can ask for, I believe.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Tabbygirl521

Almost 3000 · December 29, 2015

My vet once told me that, when younger, she had had a cat that she was confident would live to be 20 because after all, she was a vet, right? But when the cat got to be around 12, she started having a lot of the issues that are typical at that age, and failed fairly quickly. Taught her that some things are just wired into a creature.

My mom was once adopted by a cat that insisted on remaining an outdoor cat, and would only eat the crappiest cat food. She lived past 20. You just never know.

Thank you for that. My cats were pure bred and I think came with some thyroid/heart issues but the dogs were pound puppies that at 13 (and just age guesses at that) were at the high end for their breeds so you're right, like with people you just don't know.

Barb23 · December 29, 2015

Sorry guys, I really need to vent & can count on a cyber friend or two here to listen. Usually my sister is the lucky recipient of my outbursts but she is having guests this afternoon & I'll talk to her later when my BP has settled to a normal range.

This involves my MIL but first some background info: Mr Barb works & lives out of state for past year. I know it's a different living situation but works for us. We have a26 yr old son who recently & finally got a full time job in his field. Lives at home & is a great guy. He is my angel since I need help with things due to my crappy health. We (us & most of our immediate families) live in same small town & my sister (my other angel) lives about 20 min away. I know everyone is a phone call away if I need them when Son is at work. I think my MIL has overstepped things however.

This morning I get call from M IL asking how I was doing. I thought she was going to ask about her weekly "meals on wheels" Wednesday meals for us. She cooks us a meal or two almost every week. Once again, I appreciate her doing it for us & in beginning when my health went downwards & I couldn't cook & Mr Barb had to do it, it was helpful. Now, not so much as I do pretty well in kitchen & her cooking is not that great. But don't want to hurt her feelings since she loves doing it. The worse problem was when Son went over to pick food up, she would grill him about his work finding for that week & I mean grill. She would ask who he sent resumes to, had he heard back from anyone, etc. Even when he went on interview for the new job she wanted to know what he wore on the interview, how did he wear his hair, & did he wear dark business socks??!! I'm not kidding about the socks & I think those questions are way out of bounds for anyone to ask esp a grandmother. He has been on many a job interview & knows how to dress. She has two other grandchildren, all around same age, so it's not like Son is the only one for her to worry about. She's not this way with them, he asked them. Mr Barb & I are his parents, not her. I get offended too --does she forget I'm here & he asked my opinion of how he looked before he left for interview? After he got the job, he thought grilling would be over but it hasn't stopped-she wanted to know if he had enough $$ for lunch & gas the first week, until he got paid. He assured he did & he told me later that he felt like adding "my mom would give me money if I needed it." I really took offense at that remark from her. She knows we are far away from being desolate & our finances (incl his) are none of her business. She acts like he has a family of five to support. It's funny, cuz my mom is totally the opposite. She would have handed Son a twenty & told him to treat himself to lunch or buy gas cuz he has a long commute. When I told Mr Barb about all this, he just laughs it off & said that's why he only half listens to her.

Back to this morning's call. Instead of asking if we needed help with anything like the laundry, she tells me to have Son get our dirty laundry together & Son can drop it off at her house for her to do. I was dumbfounded. I told her we are fine with doing our own laundry & felt like adding we have been fine for the past two years. She mentioned something about the Under armour polo type shirt he wore on Xmas eve. She said these type of shirts are easy to take care of. I still don't know what she was getting at except I think she thinks he wears this type of shirt to work cuz other grandson does. Son doesn't. He wears button down shirts with a sport coat. I think she thinks he doesn't have enough clothes to make it thru a week without washing them. He does & once again, his clothes & our laundry are none of her business. I feel laundry is a personal thing & don't want anyone but especially her rooting thru my unmentionables. Lol. Part of the problem is she doesn't ask, she tells. She does this a lot. Instead of asking if I'm busy or if I want company like others do, it's "I'm dropping this off to you in twenty minutes." &then stays for an hour.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a novel but I feel much better. I'm off to wrap MIL gift, her birthday is tomorrow.

Almost 3000 · December 29, 2015

Barb23, I feel your MIL pain. Mine was a Marie Barone clone from Everyone Loves Raymond. That said, try to put your feelings aside and half listen like your husband does or laugh at the silliness with your son because her actions probably aren't as destructive as your reaction to them. I have the blessing of distance because I've been divorced for years but she made me furious for years and in hindsight all those madding personality traits really didn't matter but the way I dealt with them did.

eta: Wrap that gift with humor and attempt to have a bit of fun watching her open it. My exMIL always gave a sniff and a back handed compliment. I always knew the sniff was coming and used to tense up but now I just remember it as hysterical because it was soooo Marie! Find the Humor.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Almost 3000

Jynnan tonnix · December 29, 2015

JynnanTonnix, I am so very sorry to hear about your kitty. I just wanted to say I understand, and will be thinking of you.

My own senior cat is heading down the path, too - losing weight despite still eating like a horse, and the vet can't find a reason. He also has renal insufficiency (started giving him subcutaneous fluids at home just yesterday). This doesn't explain why he isn't absorbing nutrients. This is a cat who I believe was sent to me years ago by my departed FIL (long story) and he is my special cat. He is on my lap right now, in fact.

Didn't mean to hijack your story. Just wanted to illustrate that I understand. It is so hard. {{{hugs}}}

Thanks to you and to all the other people who offered their sympathies and stories. Kitty is home from the vet's...we are treating symptoms at the moment to see whether we can get her feeling better. Getting at the root causes may be a bit more costly/complicated until we get an idea of how much life might still be in her.

I'm responding to this post in particular as you mentioned the subcutaneous fluids which she also got today and which seemed to offer her some relief almost immediately...She used her litterbox as soon as we got home and licked her way through a good portion of gravy-heavy cat food. She must have been working on that for over 20 minutes. He also prescribed some antibiotics just in case there might be some bacterial thing going on. She's sleeping pretty comfortable at the moment, so will see whether the next few days bring any improvement.

Thanks again for all the thoughts!

Micks Picks · December 29, 2015

Cats often get better with sub cue fluids. I used to go over to my neighbors and give her cat fluids before, after work and before bed. She could do it, but if it is your own cat, you get freaked out. Her vet didn't want to let us give them. I had to take her to the vet or somebody else did since she had no car and finally told him, look it's not illegal for us to do this, it's common. Give us the stuff, and we'll return the needles or whatever floats your boat, but it's too expensive and a terrible inconvenience to so many people to have to make daily trips. A lot of cats, and dogs, have lived years after a treatment of daily sub cue for a couple of weeks. I'm so glad one treatment made such a difference.

Barb, right, just plain tell her you don't care to have anyone do your laundry. I wouldn't have housecleaners do laundry, nor the people who helped care for my husband in his illness. I also wouldn't let rehab centers do it while he was there. It was a pain in the ass, but I lugged it back and forth anyway. There is just something about it. I don't like it mixed. Laugh at or with MIL, but don't let her get your goat. Don't let your life be troubled. Smile.

Tabbygirl521 · December 30, 2015

JynnanTonnix, I am so glad your kitty came home, and got a boost from treatment today!

It is freaky to give your own cat fluids. I have done it for two other cats but not for years. I won't lie; I took an Ativan before I stuck poor Nate yesterday. But he did great so I feel more confident about continuing. He just climbed up into my face and over my shoulder as he feels I should jump up and feed him now.

Often a local vet office will have a technician who might be willing to come administer fluids for $15 or $20.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Tabbygirl521

Barb23 · December 30, 2015

Jynnan Tonnix - Glad to hear your kitty is better after getting fluids. I know I feel much better after getting IV fluids after being dehydrated. I guess it's the same for our furry friends.

Thanx all for your words of wisdom regarding MIL. I have to learn to let it go when she is involved. We had a good laugh about it when Son came home from work. After I told him I had talked to her, his first words were "Oh geez & it's not even Wednesday yet." Meaning I usually don't talk to her til Wednesday, our food day, & then I mentally prepare myself for the call. Today she caught me off guard.

BrianJ62 · December 30, 2015

My son had semi-emergency surgery Monday on his knee they had drained, it "exploded" in the shower late Sunday. He's doing okay now.

Jynnan tonnix · December 30, 2015

Gave the cat some more food...pureed with a bit of extra both since she doesn't much seem to eat anything that's ot vitrually liquid. She was very interested upon smelling it, but didn't eat much. Also gave her some of the antibiotic drops, though, so maybe that put her off it...will see what she eats overnight and try to adjust the schedule accordingly. She's curled up under the piano now rather than on the bed, so some part of the whole process must have made her feel a little less comfortable.

Sorry for the whole blow-by-blow, but it's just nice to have a forum to let it all off in. Hugs to everyone.

Micks Picks · December 30, 2015

Hugs to you Jinnin.

Brian, glad your son is doing better. You've been through the ringer lately.

Love2dance · December 30, 2015

Brian....good news about your son. Hope he continues to do well.

I'm a doggy girl, but sending hugs to all of you dealing with aging kitties. Our pets are family.

Tabbygirl521 · December 30, 2015

Gave the cat some more food...pureed with a bit of extra both since she doesn't much seem to eat anything that's ot vitrually liquid. She was very interested upon smelling it, but didn't eat much. Also gave her some of the antibiotic drops, though, so maybe that put her off it...will see what she eats overnight and try to adjust the schedule accordingly. She's curled up under the piano now rather than on the bed, so some part of the whole process must have made her feel a little less comfortable.

Sorry for the whole blow-by-blow, but it's just nice to have a forum to let it all off in. Hugs to everyone.

You might see if you can find freeze-dried chicken cat/dog treats, crush them into powder, and sprinkle some into the food. I have tempted some pretty sketchy appetites with that.

CherryMalotte · December 30, 2015

I don't think there's anything wrong with just broth for a couple of days, they will get nutrients. I had to do that a couple of times when we've had kitty kritters under the weather. Heck, when I'm sick I have no appetite, plus taking the meds puts me off the feed, so it's the same for them. Good luck to you and your kitty Jynnan.

I've had dreams of kittens lately. I hope that's not a psychic thing, because we are just happy with the three, four is too much.

XinaMarie · December 30, 2015

I gave my dog pancreatitis or something verging on pancreatitis the other night and I almost killed him. I was cutting off fat scraps from a steak and he is a world class beggar so I gave them to him. I thought when peoplesaid it was "not good for him" I thought it was just bad for his diet and could make him fat. Then he started having trouble breathing and he was shaking uncontrollably for several hours. Luckily my close friend is the vet tech at his veterinarian's office and she ran over with some meds to help me at 11:30PM! What an awesome friend. He rallied and was back to his old self a day and a half later, but I really thought he was going to die and I would have no one to blame, but myself. I used to be an old softie and give him handouts all the time, but I have learned my lesson.Only senior adult dog food for him any more. He is 10 years old and I would never forgive myself.

Micks Picks · December 30, 2015

XM I'm glad it worked out. I'm happy to hand out food, although mine are picky and often don't take food. Almost never, in fact. Except when somebody comes over and wants to give them something, and I always say well you can try but he/she probably won't take it, and so they try and my dog happily gobbles it up. Ah, how often they make me look like a fool. At any rate, never give them anything you know is bad for you, and fat is one of them. You dodged a bullet, so happy for you and your dog.

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