S01.E09: Kill Me, Kill Me, Kill Me

[Phillygurl]

I think, for whatever reason, Bonnie turned down the guy from the bar then went and hooked up with Asher, which is what I don't get. When her and random guy were making out against the wall or whatever, she looked mildly disgusted by hooking up with him so I took that as she left. But then she calls Asher for a hookup? How is that different? Because she's known Asher a bit longer? Weird.

 

 

So from my standpoint, it looked like bonnie actually had sex with that stranger. Her look of disgust was because she was probably disgusted by herself for allowing him to screw her. Secondly, why did she so that? Are we supposed to believe both Nasty Random and Asher were because her self-esteem was so low after Anni fired her? Aka she was all hurt and feeling low about being on her knees, and then cast to the side that she wanted to feel wanted so she hooked up with Nasty Random. But then felt disgusted about hooking up with Nasty Random because he was both nasty and random. So she called Asher becuase he is a cutiepie and not random and would place her on a pedastal as a way to kind of erase the disgust she felt after Nasty Random? I am utterly fascinated by Bonnie.

 

As for the murder, what about the carpet? I'm less concerned about the pieces in the trash than I am about how Anni is going to explain not being concerned about it's absence. Surely, Frank, Bonnie or Asher will notice it's missing. I don't know many ppl who would take a carpet with them when fleeing criminal persecution. That plus the missing ring, the lack of incineration of the remains, the cop, the significant others and the scales, there is absolutely no way they're getting away with this. The show should be called: How to Get Caught like an Idiot after Committing Murder

 

Also, did anyone else think it was super ironic how the Scoobies were fighting about having murdered Sam, then it turns out he is alive and then they go and finish the job? I mean if i were in the room I would have been super excited to see Sam alive even if he were strangling Rebecca. I mean honestly there had to be another way to stop him from killing her.

 

As for Wes' obsession with Rebecca, I think I sort of get it. I think he feels like an "other" and Rebecca is clearly an "other" as well. Wes had a mom who committed suicide, grew up as the only black kid in his neighborhood, then gets into law school off the waitlist at the very last moment and everybody knows about it. He doesn't quite fit in, as evidenced by Connor continuing to call him "waitlist". But for him, he fits in with Rebecca. That plus the fact that his mother was likely pretty damaged to have killed herself and enter Rebecca "murder suspect, drug dealer" = the definition of damaged. He wants to save her because he couldn't save his mom.

 

I kind of like the idea of Wes being related to the Keetings but I don't eant him to be Anni's son because I kind of want them to smash... not because it would be hot but because it would be so twisted and weird to watch.

 

That stuff Sam said about Anni being a piece of ass was low but I dont think he meant any of it. I think he was just trying to hurt her after she told him about her affair. I wonder how their marriage really was pre-Lila and Nate. Must not have been that great if a wife is ok seeing her husband's lifeless body in a pool of blood. Just saying.

 

Asher is the bomb.com and I hope he doesn't end up heartbroken when he finds out Bonnie really prefers to Annalise to him.

 

Also I wish Conner could be straight for a day so we could see him hook up with Michaela. That would be hot.

[morgankobi]

My theory is that Annalise called Bonnie sometime during her make out with the hotel bar guy and told her she needed to secure Asher, the wild card of the evening who could possibly disrupt the Wes/Annalise conspiracy. Like Frank, Bonnie is more aware of what was going on that evening than has yet been shown.

This is a pretty awesome theory, I just think we would of had flashback to at least part of the call, like we did with Annalise at the desk, if it were true. It would also create another witness to at least half of the "distressed" call Annalise made to add to the alibi.

[Queena]

While Bonnie was making out with the guy in the hotel, she was asking him questions about fingernail imprints in the skin. My guess is that he was some sort of crime technician.

I think Sam could be Wes' father. I think Annalise knows, but Sam nor Wes know.

[Eolivet]

Well, that was a twist!

 

It occurs to me, as others have said, how Annalise may have directed Wes in the exact method to dispose of the body, but she went completely overboard to throw suspicion off herself as a suspect -- the night with Nate, the voicemail, the call to Bonnie about something terrible happening. I'd be extremely nervous if I were those students -- any time she decides she doesn't need them, she can dump them, and it's her word against Wes'  that she knew anything about the murder at all.

 

She owns those students now, even more than she did before. They'd better stay on her good side.

[ShadowSixx]

I thought Bonnie got away from him because he was panting like a dog while kissing on her. That's enough to drive me away.

[helenamonster]

As for the murder, what about the carpet? I'm less concerned about the pieces in the trash than I am about how Anni is going to explain not being concerned about it's absence. Surely, Frank, Bonnie or Asher will notice it's missing. I don't know many ppl who would take a carpet with them when fleeing criminal persecution. That plus the missing ring, the lack of incineration of the remains, the cop, the significant others and the scales, there is absolutely no way they're getting away with this. The show should be called: How to Get Caught like an Idiot after Committing Murder

 

Michaela told the cop/campus security guy that they were taking the carpet to the bonfire on Annalise's orders. Wes can pass this tidbit on to Annalise and she can corroborate the story.

 

Well, that was a twist!

 

It occurs to me, as others have said, how Annalise may have directed Wes in the exact method to dispose of the body, but she went completely overboard to throw suspicion off herself as a suspect -- the night with Nate, the voicemail, the call to Bonnie about something terrible happening. I'd be extremely nervous if I were those students -- any time she decides she doesn't need them, she can dump them, and it's her word against Wes'  that she knew anything about the murder at all.

 

She owns those students now, even more than she did before. They'd better stay on her good side.

 

But the thing is, only Wes knows that she was the true mastermind behind the coverup. I wouldn't be surprised for one of the other three to build up some sort of resentment towards Annalise for one reason or another (my money's on Michaela) and for that to lead to Annalise finding a way to out that person without outing herself. Although I'm sure they're all gonna be extra nice to her because of what they did. Only Wes truly knows what a crock of shit that marriage had turned into; the other three will see a worried, grieving widow that they helped create. They'll probably just tiptoe around her out of guilt, not necessarily self-preservation.

[ShadowSixx]

In the end it might not end well for all of them, they might have to kiss their legal career goodbye if anything is ever found out. Instead of calling the police after Wes hit him, they opted to dump the body and hack him up and destroy the evidence.

 

They all could have came up with a good story cause Sam is dead and can't dispute what they were saying. If I was Michaela I would have thrown Rebecca right under the bus and wouldn't give a damn if Wes threw a hissy fit. She could have called the police and said she went there to talk to Anni, but she wasn't there, Sam invited her in while waiting for Anni to return home, Rebecca trespassed and ran upstairs to steal, Sam went after her to get her out of the house and she called Wes and then the rest of the gang came over where Sam fell over the balcony and onto the floor and he got up and started choking Rebecca and Wes knocked him off of her with the trophy killing him. She got roped in by what Wes and Laurel were telling her plus Connor all in her ear, she was straight up dragged into it.

 

For potential law students, they weren't thinking like lawyers, they were thinking like criminals. If they all sat and took the time to think and all came up with a good solid story, they wouldn't be in this mess, but of course there would be no show lol.

 

Michaela, Connor, and Laurel could have escaped with minimal charges against them if at all if they actually took the time to think. I guess easier said and done, I've been in situations (legal situations lol) where the first thing to do is panic, but that's not me, I like to think things out and come up with options. That's me I like to think and process even if it's something that needs to be done last minute. Wes & Rebecca would be the ones in the most trouble.

[Neurochick]

As for Wes' obsession with Rebecca, I think I sort of get it. I think he feels like an "other" and Rebecca is clearly an "other" as well. Wes had a mom who committed suicide, grew up as the only black kid in his neighborhood, then gets into law school off the waitlist at the very last moment and everybody knows about it. He doesn't quite fit in, as evidenced by Connor continuing to call him "waitlist". But for him, he fits in with Rebecca. That plus the fact that his mother was likely pretty damaged to have killed herself and enter Rebecca "murder suspect, drug dealer" = the definition of damaged. He wants to save her because he couldn't save his mom.

 

 

I think that's a good point.  Wes being drawn to Rebecca because they're both others.

 

As for them not calling the police.  I really do get it.  Lawyers are human beings and don't always do what they're "supposed to do."  I think Sam's violence and their reaction to it, scared the shit out of them.  I don't think either of them had the chance to sit calmly and decide what to do.  

 

What I want to know is, how long had Annalise been sitting there?  Did she see the entire thing?  Did Wes tell her what happened?  

[theatremouse]

Michaela told the cop/campus security guy that they were taking the carpet to the bonfire on Annalise's orders. Wes can pass this tidbit on to Annalise and she can corroborate the story.

Which only helps if everyone remains on the "Sam fled" train. If any indication of him being murdered in the house comes up, their being in agreement about the rug makes them all look guilty together.

[Babalu]

While Bonnie was making out with the guy in the hotel, she was asking him questions about fingernail imprints in the skin. My guess is that he was some sort of crime technician.

I think Sam could be Wes' father. I think Annalise knows, but Sam nor Wes know.

I was hoping that the shocking ending would be hearing Wes saying, "I'm so sorry . . . . DAD." Except I agree that, if Wes is Sam's son (and I think he is), only Annelise knows it.

The actual shocking ending didn't have much impact on me because I was almost certain Annelise knew about the murder and was establishing her innocence throughout the night - her phone call to Bonnie, the visit to - and abrupt departure from - Nate's apartment, and the message to what she knew would be Sam's voicemail. It was all too calculating.

Can't figure out why the show had Annelise firing Bonnie, but I think it was done in an emotional moment or was a red herring because I think Bonnie's always been working for Annelise, except maybe for a hot second. I love the theory of Annelise using Bonnie to secure Asher. And I didn't catch Bonnie questioning the bar guy about fingernail impressions, but I bet the meet-up and questioning were also done at Annelise's instigation to see if she or Wes (my #1 and #2 suspects) could be identified as Lila's murderer.

[mikem]

I went back and watched the murder again and when Wes drops the trophy, the scales do not drop with it. So the were missing before the head whack. Who knows where they are.

[Haleth]

The reveal that Annalise knows darn well what happened yet had the wherewithal to set up her alibi was a shocking and delicious twist. If it turns out that she also pulled the long con and is responsible for Lila's death my mind will be blown.

[JenE4]

I was not surprised that Annaliese saw Wes and knew about the murder because (as I stated in last week's episode thread) I assumed she was pulling the strings as How to Get Away with Murder. However, I was surprised that Wes knows that Anneliese knows. I figured that she would be the Svengali manipulating the entire situation from the outside. But in retrospect, it does make sense that Wes is the only person who knows that Annaliese knows, and she does need someone "on the inside" of the murder who has to do what she says in order to Get Away with Murder. These two have always had their secrets just between the two of them that the rest of them don't know about.

[wanderingstar]

Things I noticed on re-watch:

 

• Michaela lets herself into the Keating house to return the trophy.
• When they were discussing what to do after Sam was thrown down the stairs, Wes advocated just leaving; Connor was the main one arguing against this.
• During the struggle with Sam, Connor tries to grab the flash drive and Sam (without looking) punches him in the face – which cracked me the hell up.
• It may be the way the scenes were edited together, but I’m going to go ahead and believe that Annalise went to Nate’s after she saw Wes at the house.
• I love that “little help here?” look Connor, Wes and Laurel give to Michaela when they start rolling Sam’s body up in the rug.

 

These two have always had their secrets just between the two of them that the rest of them don't know about.

 

 

Yeah – that’s part of what fascinates me about their dynamic. Now that they’re covering up a murder together, I’m guessing their relationship will become even more twisted.

[helenamonster]

They all could have came up with a good story cause Sam is dead and can't dispute what they were saying. If I was Michaela I would have thrown Rebecca right under the bus and wouldn't give a damn if Wes threw a hissy fit. She could have called the police and said she went there to talk to Anni, but she wasn't there, Sam invited her in while waiting for Anni to return home, Rebecca trespassed and ran upstairs to steal, Sam went after her to get her out of the house and she called Wes and then the rest of the gang came over where Sam fell over the balcony and onto the floor and he got up and started choking Rebecca and Wes knocked him off of her with the trophy killing him. She got roped in by what Wes and Laurel were telling her plus Connor all in her ear, she was straight up dragged into it.

 

She may have been dragged into it, but she's also a free-thinking adult. They did not threaten, blackmail, or otherwise coerce her into helping out. She is not a child, and she does not have a mental disability. She chose to go along with the coverup and that part, at least, is as much on her as it is on the other three.

 

What I want to know is, how long had Annalise been sitting there?  Did she see the entire thing?  Did Wes tell her what happened?  

 

I think Annalise left after her fight with Sam and drove to the police station, considering telling them about her suspicions regarding Lila's murder. Then she came back, saw the body, and probably sat down to contemplate what the hell she was going to do. Then Wes comes in, picks up the trophy, and apologizes to Sam's body (all of which basically confirmed his guilt) and she saw him. After giving him the instructions on covering it up, she left for Nate's to establish her alibi.

 

Which only helps if everyone remains on the "Sam fled" train. If any indication of him being murdered in the house comes up, their being in agreement about the rug makes them all look guilty together.

 

True, but as of now there's no reason to get off that train. Sam's remains will probably be found, because this is a TV show and they're not gonna make it that easy for the Scoobies, but the odds in the real world are probably very slim. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that could implicate them, but only if the police are actively looking for it. Right now, the story of Sam running because he was afraid of being arrested for Lila's murder holds up pretty well. Obviously murder is going to eventually be suspected, but without a body, weapon, or crime scene, there's nothing to go to trial with. Also, I think they realize that at this point, one of them rolling over on the others would implicate that person as well. It's to their own benefit not to rat anybody out.

 

The actual shocking ending didn't have much impact on me because I was almost certain Annelise knew about the murder and was establishing her innocence throughout the night - her phone call to Bonnie, the visit to - and abrupt departure from - Nate's apartment, and the message to what she knew would be Sam's voicemail. It was all too calculating.

 

Before the reveal, I was thinking that Annalise was going to be arrested because her actions after leaving the house looked too much like she was trying to establish an alibi.

 

I went back and watched the murder again and when Wes drops the trophy, the scales do not drop with it. So the were missing before the head whack. Who knows where they are.

 

When I went back and watched, the scales were still on the trophy when it was sitting on the table next to Michaela after Sam fell over the banister. Then, yes, they were gone when Wes hit him. They must have fallen off on the floor when Wes grabbed the trophy and maybe got kicked under a chair. Maybe Asher will find them there and remember that Frank told him that he'd found the trophy on the porch (implying it had never been in the house).

 

I also noticed that Sam hit his head on the railing before landing on the first floor. So three whacks to the head is what killed him, I think.

[ToukieSmith]

 

I also noticed that Sam hit his head on the railing before landing on the first floor. So three whacks to the head is what killed him, I think.

 

Annalise could have killed Sam when she returned to the house.  The Scoobies never checked whether Sam was dead when he fell from the bannister and they did not check after Wes clocked him.

[Happytobehere]

After all of that, I hope it turns out that actually Rebecca did kill Lila.

I always thought Rebecca actually did kill Lila. It might not have been intentional but she did it and threw her in the water tank (there was a reason they showed us that scene with the two of them sitting on the roof of the sorority house). Besides, I can't stand her and the thought of her rotting in jail makes me happy.

Or better yet, that WES actually killed Lila, also at Annalise's behest, and he's been a plant and her stooge from day one. It would explain his last minute acceptance into her class, his moving next door to Rebecca and him being so damn forceful, obsessive and creepy.

I hope this is the case because there is no other acceptable excuse for his weird ass behavior. Something's not right with that boy.

This was my second thought. Wes and Annalise orchestrated this whole thing together. Everything about Wes seems off, from his last minute entry into both the school and the course to all of his actions that conveniently place him at the center of everything going on. Just like there is a reason behind those creepy scenes we kept getting between him and Annalise (to establish the link when the reveal comes), there is a reason why Wes so randomly told Rebecca about his mother killing herself. Will it turn out that Wes is Sam's son and his mother killed herself as a result of his treatment of her. We already know he was cheating on wife number one (what if his mother was wife #1 and she had Wes after being dumped?). Wes could be planning to double-cross Annalise as part of his revenge plot. Or perhaps as others initially speculated, Wes is Annalise's son (with Sam?) and she gave him to her sister without Sam's knowing. Maybe like Lila, before they ultimately wound up together, Annalise got pregnant and dumped, she comes back after having Wes. This has Annalise playing the longest con in the world, or something triggered her to hate, cheat on and plot against Sam, maybe his other affair, Regardless, something is wrong when it comes to Wes and I hope we get a great reveal.

As for Annalise and Nate, I can't co-sign on the support this pairing is getting. Annalise has a pathology, married men, and Nate's no better than Sam. His wife is dying from cancer and he is screwing some woman in his wife's house. Yeah, he's super-fantastic, a real great guy to root for. Annalise clearly learned nothing from her mess of a relationship with Sam, like the saying goes, "How you get them is how you kept them or lose them." Add to that, not only is Nate screwing another woman in the house he shares with his wife who is gravely ill, the woman whose manipulations triggered the end of his career is the woman he is screwing.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Happytobehere

[jhlipton]

• I love that “little help here?” look Connor, Wes and Laurel give to Michaela when they start rolling Sam’s body up in the rug.

 

And I loved her reply: A sigh and "Fine..."

[Armchair Critic]

Sam's argument that Annalise was an easy piece of ass made no sense, they why would he have married her? What I thought was that Annalise came home and found Sam dead, that's why she was sitting there when Wes came back. I didn't figure she had planned for Wes to kill him, but after she found out he was dead she made sure she had an alibi.

[GaiusB]

I think if Sam is not the killer, than it have to be Griffin and Rebecca together. Rebecca alone could not drag Lila body into that watertank. And if i remember first episode, they both returned together into the flat, both visibly shaken. It does not look like they were just witnesses, since at this point they would mentioned it during their trial. So i find it very likely they could be in it together. Their motivation could be very easy to establish. It could be Lila caught them having a sex and threatened them with police for their drugs offenses.

 

It would be good storyline, if Annalise and K4  discover she was the killer, but they will have to defend her, because she know about their part in Sam demise. It would be pretty ruthless, since they were saving her life, but i can totally see Rebecca would extort them with her knowledge without flinching. Anyway i will like Rebecca whatever  is she an innocent emo girl or a sociopathic manipulative murderer. I doubt i would be still watching the show without her. Hatred against her from female veiwers is amazing. As are the suggestions Wes should rather sleep with Annalise (eww) or Michaela (a textbook example of woman guys should avoid at any cost).

 

Regarding Nate, he have good potential to be really trouble for Annalise. I had feeling he had sex with her only to stall her so Rebecca have free hand for the mission he gave her. He might still want a revenge on Annalise for ruining his career. He know Rebecca was there, he might suspect a foul play very soon, and once he do, he will realize he was played by Annalise AGAIN.

Edited November 23, 2014 by GaiusB

[shapeshifter]

I always thought Rebecca actually did kill Lila. It might not have been intentional but she did it and threw her in the water tank (there was a reason they showed us that scene with the two of them sitting on the roof of the sorority house)...

But wasn't cause of death choking? Or was she choked but CoD was something else? I don't recall. If CoD was choking, it was likely Sam who did it, since we see him choke both Annalise and Rebecca in this episode. It's possible Rebecca could have helped with dumping Lila's body, if she was there and Sam threatened that if they found her DNA on the body and crime scene, she'd be an accessory--which would be similar to the events of Sam's demise, but not surprisingly similar, since Sam is a choker, so folks who hung out with Sam would likely see some choking, and Sam probably learned some tips on how to get away with murder from Annalise's discussion of her cases.

Hmmm, maybe Sam was a serial killer and the real reason he married Annalise was so he could get ideas for killing and have a lawyer if he needed one.

Edited November 23, 2014 by shapeshifter

[dr pepper]

Scoobies? No way, this is detective work by the Archies-- minus Dilton.

Come to think of it, the only way they're going to get away with anything is if the Riverdale police do the investigation.

[JenE4]

Well, if they're the Scoobies, then I assume the following match-ups:

Wes = Scooby (Seriously, when has he NOT has a "Ruh-roh" look on his face?)

Asher = Shaggy (the goofy one)

Laurel = Velma (the nerdier girl as compared to...)

Michaela = Daphne (the princess)

Conner = Fred (the good-looking one who uses his looks)

Seems about right to me!

Edited November 23, 2014 by JenE4

[Eolivet]

I feel like Sam not being Lila's killer might be one twist too many. It also sort of takes away the "We killed a violent criminal" aspect to it (yes, he punched all of them and tried to choke Rebecca, but if he actually never took a life, and they took his, that does tip the scales -- no pun intended).

 

Plus, how do they prove it, with Sam dead? He had no real alibi for the night of the murder -- quite the opposite. The victim was pregnant with his child. Lila was strangled -- not shot or stabbed -- so there'd likely be no blood on the killer's clothing. I don't see how Sam didn't kill Lila at this point, unless there was a witness who comes forward, some kind of months-old DNA suddenly shows up or the killer just outright confesses.

 

But "trying to defend an innocent person from a murder charge, while trying to cover up the murder that's yet to be discovered" is an interesting story. Make Lila's killer someone else, it feels too much like a "Gotcha!" and then it's just...how many bodies can we cover up? How many crimes can we bury? This cast goes from looking like victims of circumstance to a bunch of sociopaths. I don't think that's how they want to be perceived, but I could be wrong.

[Haleth]

I'm still thinking it was Bonnie who killed Lila, whether from jealosy because she was also having an affair with Sam or out of loyalty to Annalise when she (Bonnie) learned Lila was pregnant.  (And I realize these motives are mutually exclusive.)  One thing for sure AFAIC is that Sam didn't do it.

 

Despite all the over the top absurd things that go on on this show if we find out that Wes has any connection to either Anna or Sam I will be done.  Long lost son of either of them?  Naw, not buying it.

 

I think the craziest thing in this episode was that Sam, after falling over the railing and knocking himself out cold, was alert enough to jump Rebecca and get his hands around her neck.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Haleth

[shapeshifter]

...I think the craziest thing in this episode was that Sam, after falling over the railing and knocking himself out cold, was alert enough to jump Rebecca and get his hands around her neck.

Seriously. Not just alert enough, but strong enough. Of course she didn't seem to fight him at all. A clip that runs just from the time he falls until he starts choking would be pretty unintentionally hilarious. If they hadn't burned and dismembered his body, he could've popped up again.

[truthaboutluv]

I feel like Sam not being Lila's killer might be one twist too many.

 

 

Not really for a show that seems built around the "shocking" reveals. If anything Sam being the "big, evil murderer" is what is weak because it was just too easy and obvious for most of the season. And really, Sam's not being Lila's killer would be no more ridiculous than the theories that Wes may be Sam's kid and he and Sam didn't know but Annalise does and that's why she's been plotting and manipulating him for so long.

 

It also sort of takes away the "We killed a violent criminal" aspect to it (yes, he punched all of them and tried to choke Rebecca, but if he actually never took a life, and they took his, that does tip the scales -- no pun intended).

 

 

YMMV but for me that's exactly what would add another layer of awesome to the story. Because that's just it - none of these kids ever had any tangible proof Sam murdered Lila. All they had was Wes telling them Sam likely did because he'd been having an affair with Lila and she was pregnant with his child and Rebecca was trying to find proof. That was it and then they went to the house and the man ended up dead.

 

So for me that would add another level of complexity that they inadvertently caused the death of someone who was innocent after all, albeit an asshole. And I don't think that would make them seem like sociopaths to the viewers because again, Michaela, Connor and Laurel were all victims of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and believing what Wes said. 

 

Plus, how do they prove it, with Sam dead? He had no real alibi for the night of the murder -- quite the opposite. The victim was pregnant with his child. Lila was strangled -- not shot or stabbed -- so there'd likely be no blood on the killer's clothing.

 

 

The show, so far anyway, isn't really about people getting caught for these crimes but the viewers being shown what happened. So it's not about proving who killed her but the writers simply showing the viewers who did. In other words, a simple flashback by Rebecca showing what happened would do the job because note, for as much air time as she sucks up with her soul sucking personality, she hasn't had any POV like the Keating 5 and of course Annalise.

 

The flashbacks of her and Lila's friendship I saw as we were being shown what Lila saw/went through, etc. In other words, they were her memories. Which is another reason I wasn't convinced by this supposedly close friendship these clips tried to portray because in my opinion, that's probably how Lila saw Rebecca and her relationship with her but it may not have been how Rebecca truly saw and felt about Lila at all. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Mabinogia]

Question, because my memory is crap and this show isn't good enough for me to go back and rewatch, so if anyone has a better memory, I appreciate the answer. Do we know what happened to the kid Wes replaced? The one who didn't make it to class so that Waitlist got in? Because I have a totally cracked out theory that Annaliese got rid of that kid to get Wes in the class. Why? I'm still working on it. This is a Shonda Show which basically makes it a nighttime soap, so I'm not dismissing the long lost kid theory. But I have another theory that something in Wes' past makes him more susceptible to being her little puppy, and she needed that in her long con plan to get away with murdering her husband. I know it's insane, but the only good thing about this show (other than Asher, who really grew on me) is coming up with cracked out theories about what is going on. It's just way too convenient that the waitlisted kid is the one who is suddenly Annie's closest confidant.

 

My other theory is that Wes "removed" the other kid to specifically get into Annie's class. The why on that so far is that he's her or Sam's kid because I don't know why else he would be that desperate to get into her class. I know the show has said it's some big deal but I just don't see it.

[theatremouse]

Do we know what happened to the kid Wes replaced? The one who didn't make it to class so that Waitlist got in? Because I have a totally cracked out theory that Annaliese got rid of that kid to get Wes in the class.

I don't think there even is a "kid Wes replaced". I don't think he was on the waitlist for her class. I thought he was on the waitlist for the school. I'm also not certain but I don't think waitlists work in such a way where it's literally a 1-to1 kind of thing where you could know you're "next" and get rid of someone to specifically get yourself in. I thought the point of the waitlist is they accept more people than they will actually attend, under the assumption people applied to multiple schools, so they can't go everywhere they get in. So they'd just need to have wait until they received enough "I'm not coming" responses from accepted applicants. You don't need to bump off one specific person. I might be wrong though. Maybe it was just the class? But then I wouldn't expect anyone to ridicule him for that. If he were waitlisted for just that class it doesn't reflect his academic abilities in any way; it just implies he registered late and the class were full.

 

I think the waitlist thing may or may not be fake and just an excuse for his showing up last minute, depending on what we find out his real deal is and how far back the conspiracy goes. Since I do think there's more to him, and it may even involve Annalise "getting him in" but I don't think it'd require getting rid of a random innocent. I think the waitlist statement may just be a cover story for his not knowing things a law student should've by then.

Edited November 23, 2014 by theatremouse

[Mabinogia]

Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure. It just felt like an odd thing for the show to mention unless it is going to be important. I suppose it could have just been a way to give him a nickname, but I still feel like it was intentional for whatever reason. Especially since he is now being shown to be rather calculating and a bit ruthless. I feel like there is a reason the show made him a wait lister rather than, say, just late to class which would have also put in on the radar or a scholarship kid if they wanted to point out that he wasn't as privileged as the others.

[Eolivet]

Not really for a show that seems built around the "shocking" reveals. If anything Sam being the "big, evil murderer" is what is weak because it was just too easy and obvious for most of the season.

 

Respectfully disagree, as this show seems to be much more about the fallout than the crime. The fallout of Sam being a murderer and Annalise (et al) covering it up, setting in motion a series of circumstances that led to his death. Sam wouldn't have been killed if Nate and Rebecca hadn't been hellbent on trying to prove his guilt.

 

I also don't think the reveal that was the most shocking was Sam's killer (obvious when you thought about it), but the fallout/cover up -- and who was involved. All season long, we've been seeing the fallout of Lila's murder intercut with the fallout of Sam's murder. The two are seemingly intertwined. To say "Psych! Sam didn't kill anyone!" turns him into more of a victim than the personification of the Cellblock Tango from "Chicago" ("He had it coming").

 

none of these kids ever had any tangible proof Sam murdered Lila. All they had was Wes telling them Sam likely did because he'd been having an affair with Lila and she was pregnant with his child and Rebecca was trying to find proof. That was it and then they went to the house and the man ended up dead.

 

That's awfully bleak for me. I know this isn't a true Shonda Rhimes show, but a tenet of her dramas has always seemed to be "whatever it takes for the greater good." People do terrible, horrible, despicable, awful things, but it's always in service of a larger purpose (in their minds). Murders are routinely swept under the rug and justified, but only in service of the greater good. Sam being innocent makes the murder senseless, and worse, pointless.

 

And I don't think that would make them seem like sociopaths to the viewers because again, Michaela, Connor and Laurel were all victims of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and believing what Wes said.

 

Whoever killed Lila then becomes a sociopath, because he/she has sat back and watched innocent people twist themselves into knots to prove Sam was the killer -- to the point where they've murdered an innocent man. That's absolutely something David E. Kelley would do in his heyday on "The Practice," but I just can't see someone who learned at Shonda's feet writing something that nihilistic.

 

The show, so far anyway, isn't really about people getting caught for these crimes but the viewers being shown what happened. So it's not about proving who killed her but the writers simply showing the viewers who did.

 

Again, respectfully disagree -- I think the show has been about how to cover up a crime: first Lila's murder, and now Sam's. It's absolutely been about evidence -- finding it, destroying it, faking it, making it say things it shouldn't. Annalise's lessons of the week are all about the mind of the accused and how a defense attorney works within (or slightly outside) the confines of the law to tilt the evidence in their favor. Only this week did we see the crime -- the vast majority of the show has been about dealing with the proof: a body being rolled into a rug, doused with gasoline, chopped into pieces, evidence being taken and or cleaned away and alibis being established. Every major twist and turn was about what the evidence said (the wallpaper, the phone picture, the missing time at Yale, the pregnancy reveal), not about what actually happened.

 

And again, if Sam isn't the killer, what was the point of the new wallpaper, the phone pictures, the missing time at Yale, the pregnancy reveal, other than to waste time? I suppose I have faith that the coverup of Sam's murder is interesting enough, and the writers can do enough with the last six episodes that they don't need to throw in twist after twist after twist. Michaela's missing ring, where the scales on the trophy went, that Frank found the statue outside the house, that Rebecca called 911 and hung up, that Asher is in the dark about the whole thing and that Rebecca's trial for Lila's murder starts today seems like more than enough storylines for the remainder of the season.

 

I'm not saying it won't happen, but if it turns out Sam was innocent, then this story was even more poorly planned than I thought. They had 15 episodes, not 22. You can do ongoing red herrings when you have to kill time -- when you have to make every moment of an episode count, ongoing red herrings just seem like filler.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Eolivet

[jhlipton]

We don't know for sure that Sam is the the knock-up daddy.  It still could be Frank or Wes or dun dun DUNNN... Rebecca!

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think it's important to keep in mind that we don't yet know for 100 percent sure that Sam was the father of Lila's baby.

 

We know that Sam and Lila were sleeping together, that Lila apparently told Sam she was pregnant. We suspect because of the flashbacks that Lila was only sleeping with Sam and in love with him.

 

However, no DNA testing has been done. For all we know, the baby was Griffin's or yet another person Lila was sleeping with.

[Awesomesauce]

To address the Bonnie hookup question, the showrunner specifically says in this interview that she did not have sex with that rando:

http://m.eonline.com/news/600300/how-to-get-away-with-murder-boss-spills-scoop-who-killed-lila-where-does-wes-go-from-here-what-s-bonnie-up-to-find-out

Sadly, it also says that they did not have a plan for who murdered Sam when the season began, they've just been making things up as they go along. I was pretty surprised to read that, and I'm worried I'm getting pulled into another Lost situation where things are going to make even less sense going forward because there is no plan. And if it turns out that some of the twists being speculated here come true, it could be because the writers got the ideas from us. Is this what it's like in Shondaland?

[Joimiaroxeu]

We don't know for sure that Sam is the the knock-up daddy.  It still could be Frank or Wes or dun dun DUNNN... Rebecca!

I've got Nate on the list too. He got a funny look when Annalise mentioned that she recommended that DNA be collected from men known to be associated with Lila. We don't know (yet) that Nate would be one of them but I think he seems as likely as anyone else if it's not Sam.

[Neurochick]

Anyway i will like Rebecca whatever  is she an innocent emo girl or a sociopathic manipulative murderer. I doubt i would be still watching the show without her. Hatred against her from female veiwers is amazing. As are the suggestions Wes should rather sleep with Annalise (eww) or Michaela (a textbook example of woman guys should avoid at any cost).

 

 

I don't mind Rebecca that much.  I almost thought that she and Annalise were in on things together for some strange reason.

 

I don't think Wes and Annalise should hook up, not because of age, but because she's his teacher. 

 

I don't get why guys should avoid someone like Michaela, she's just a bit high strung.  

Edited November 23, 2014 by Neurochick

[wanderingstar]

I don't want Wes & Annalise to hook up, but I wouldn't mind seeing her become his Svengali. When he was blackmailing her in that one episode, she seemed almost proud of him.

[Mabinogia]

I am oddly okay with the idea that they didn't know who killed Sam because it means, the show isn't about who killed Sam but about how this group of people deal with having been involved in covering up a death, which is far more interesting to me than who killed Sam. Hell, I don't really care who killed Lila. The name of the show implies it doesn't matter, whoever it is isn't going to pay for it so who cares. It's about characters and their reactions.

 

I am greatly relieved to hear we are done with the flash forward story devise. I don't mind flash forward/backs, loved Lost despite it's flaws, but the repetition was getting on my last nerve and I was hoping we wouldn't have to constantly replay some other future event now that the bonfire is over. Though I fear we will now get endless flashbacks to the very same night. Oh, that would suck!

[helenamonster]

To address the Bonnie hookup question, the showrunner specifically says in this interview that she did not have sex with that rando:

http://m.eonline.com/news/600300/how-to-get-away-with-murder-boss-spills-scoop-who-killed-lila-where-does-wes-go-from-here-what-s-bonnie-up-to-find-out

Sadly, it also says that they did not have a plan for who murdered Sam when the season began, they've just been making things up as they go along. I was pretty surprised to read that, and I'm worried I'm getting pulled into another Lost situation where things are going to make even less sense going forward because there is no plan. And if it turns out that some of the twists being speculated here come true, it could be because the writers got the ideas from us. Is this what it's like in Shondaland?

 

Bah, this bothers me. I always assumed the bonfire night scenes were the first ones they filmed and then worked their way backwards to reach that conclusion. I mean, I guess this way of writing hasn't been a total disaster, as there haven't been any particularly glaring continuity issues just yet, but I like it better when shows actually have a plan for what they're going to do. Does this mean they don't know yet who killed Lila either?

[LaJefaza]

I don't get why guys should avoid someone like Michaela, she's just a bit high strung.

 

 

I don't get it either. Michaela's judgmental and snobby, yes, and she doesn't seem like she'd be much fun to hang out with, but I'm not sure why guys would do well to avoid her as opposed to Rebecca, a drug dealer with a very nasty attitude, especially to people who stupidly try to help her. She was an asshole to Wes until doing so no longer amused her, and is still obnoxious to everyone else in general. I still can't get over her willingness to let Asher, who was completely innocent, walk through Sam's blood so that he could incriminate himself. She seems like the one everybody should avoid, male or female.

 

I don't know that female viewers hate her more than male viewers, but I can speak only for myself in saying that I won't give her behavior a pass or celebrate her simply because we're of the same gender. She's not even a layered, root-for-her antihero. There's no depth to her nor has anything even remotely likable or non self-serving been presented. She's just a black hole. If a character sucks, she sucks. YMMV.

 

I do agree that Wes and Annalise would be FOUL.

Edited November 23, 2014 by LaJefaza

[Mabinogia]

I tend to look at Rebecca as more of a plot device than a character for the reasons LaJefaza touched on, she isn't layered, there is really nothing for us viewers to grab onto that makes her rootable. I can't even really latch onto "well, she was wrongly convicted of killing her friend" because I'm still not 100% convinced she didn't. The show has done nothing to make me think she's innocent or guilty because she's not really a character, she's a plot device. She's the client of the week only her week is endless.

 

I don't hate her. I can't. She's really a non-entitiy to me. I just don't think she's a priority to the writers and that's fine. She's just the client of the week and this show is more about the lawyers than the clients.

[mikem]

I'm also pretty surprised that the show didn't know who Sam's killer was when they started the season.  That's basic, key information for the overall arc of the season.  Don't most shows figure out the overall story for the season before the season starts?  If they're making it up as they go along, there's a good chance the pieces aren't all going to fit together completely, and it's not going to make complete sense.  And it's not like the viewer can take clues from episodes, because there are no clues since the solution hasn't been determined yet.  I'm really disappointed.

 

It reminds me of Fox's show, "Reunion," which also hinged around a murder and the writers hadn't figured out who the murderer was at the time the show was canceled (at episode 9).  I thought that was ridiculous at the time, but it's the same thing again here.

[theatremouse]

I can't even really latch onto "well, she was wrongly convicted of killing her friend" because I'm still not 100% convinced she didn't.

Well, plus she's not even been convicted yet. She just keeps stating she will be, despite who her lawyer is. I think the evidence against her vs Griifin are kind of equally circumstantial at this point? Although I do think it'll be more interesting if the two of them killed her together.

[PrincessTT]

Will Rebecca still be going on trial for Lila's murder? Or will the case against her be dropped because of the pregnancy / DNA test? 

 

If she does have a trial still I wonder if it will be covered in 1 episode like the previous COTWs were, or if the pace will slow down and the trial will cover a few episodes. 

 

The dynamics of them helping defend her given that she has knowledge that could destroy them all would be interesting. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by PrincessTT

[kikaha]

I don't want Wes & Annalise to hook up, but I wouldn't mind seeing her become his Svengali. When he was blackmailing her in that one episode, she seemed almost proud of him.

If Sam is Wes' father... and Wes and Annalise hook up... it's a slightly modified, modern version of the Oedipus story. 

[Neurochick]

For me, I don't need anybody to root for while watching a TV show.  If the plot and writing interests me, then I'm there.

 

I just wish Rebecca were more interesting.  

 

If Sam is Wes' father... and Wes and Annalise hook up... it's a slightly modified, modern version of the Oedipus story.

 

Yes, but then Annalise would have to be Wes' mother.  Someone in the show alluded to that and then Michaela told that person something like, "yeah, because all black people know each other."  Wouldn't it be funny if Wes really was Annalise's son...yikes.  

[kikaha]

Neurochick: Annalise as Wes' mother would make HTGAWM line up real well with Oedipus.  But even without that, we would have several key elements:  the young son sent away as a child, not knowing his real father... later killing his father... bedding his father's wife.

 

I think that last part won't happen, but if it does, the stories will share some of the most important common elements.

[GaiusB]

LaJefaza, on 23 Nov 2014 - 7:20 PM, said:

I don't get it either. Michaela's judgmental and snobby, yes, and she doesn't seem like she'd be much fun to hang out with, but I'm not sure why guys would do well to avoid her as opposed to Rebecca, a drug dealer with a very nasty attitude, especially to people who stupidly try to help her. She was an asshole to Wes until doing so no longer amused her, and is still obnoxious to everyone else in general. I still can't get over her willingness to let Asher, who was completely innocent, walk through Sam's blood so that he could incriminate himself. She seems like the one everybody should avoid, male or female.

 

 

Michaela being jugmental and snobby is not main issue. but it suck a natural sex-appeal out of her. Main problem with her is her narcissism, it is rather obvious she just want her boyfriend to be piece of puzzle of her perfect life. And there is good possibility her future mother-in-law was right about her being a gold digger.

 

Compared to her Rebecca is a joy even with her nasty attidute, which is still much better then Michaela´s. Also it is well known goth girls are really only tough on outside and inside they are often just sensitive and insecure. I would always prefer my hot neighbour coming to my flat to eat some pizza and get naked in my shower then to suffer Michaela being obnoxious 24/7. Being drug dealer is no moral problem for me since i believe a real crime is the prohibition. Obviously i would still want her to stop doing it for practical reason of her not being caught. And she was not alone, who wanted to implicate Asher, it was Laurel´s idea and Connor agreed too.

 

Rebecca generally is type of girl most guys want to bang as teenagers and in early twenties, before they move for some more mature option for a serious relationship. Michaela is not fun, neither is she good for a serious relationship, so that is why in my opinion guys should avoid this type of girl (atleast until she learn she is not the center of the universe and stop treat her boyfreind as merely piece of her life).

[KaveDweller]

they've just been making things up as they go along. I was pretty surprised to read that

 

I'm kind of impressed that they admitted that.  But surprised that they did all those flash forwards not knowing how it was going to come about, it seems more challenging that way.

[blackwing]

I also noticed that Sam hit his head on the railing before landing on the first floor. So three whacks to the head is what killed him, I think.

Annalise could have killed Sam when she returned to the house.  The Scoobies never checked whether Sam was dead when he fell from the bannister and they did not check after Wes clocked him.

He clearly wasn't dead when he fell from the bannister, as he was very much alive and choking Rebecca minutes later.  It's possible that Annalise could have dealt the fatal blow, but the way it played out, it seems evident he was killed by Wes.  I thought after the blow, we saw his eyes were open and giving the dead eye stare.  I suppose it is possible he could have been pretending to be dead, but why?  Why would he pretend?  So he could get away from some kids in their 20s?  They were horrified at the thought they killed him, he could have gotten up and left, they wouldn't have attacked him.

 

I don't get why they didn't check him after he fell over the bannister.  Yes, he hit his head and it was a hard fall, but why not check to see if he's OK?  Why stick around in the house discussing things?  So we could have Sam dramatically rising from the dead and choking Rebecca?  I don't get that at all.  Why try to choke her to death?  Revenge?  What good would killing her have done?  There were four other people in the room who know his secret.  They know something is on the computer, they could just subpoena his computer.  Nothing is ever truly deleted from a computer, I thought.

 

The more I think about this show the more it annoys me.  I really watch only for Viola Davis.  Part of me loves this show, but a good part of me hates it and everyone involved except for Viola Davis.  It's weird, I kind of hope it gets cancelled so she can go back to making movies and get away from this dreck, but then I also hope it continues because I'm addicted.  Help me Obi Wan Kenobi.