S05.E06: Consumed

[Mindymoo]

I would fear STDs after the fall of civilization. Think about it. The pharmacies have been raided. Going about getting tested for STDs would be pretty damn hard, and treated for them next to impossible. So things like syphilis would become rampant and untreated, with people ending up with saddle noses after a few years and succumbing to syphilitic insanity. Gonorrhea, chlamydia, pubic lice, all of that would be on the rise if people were fucking like crazy. Not to mention how hard pregnancy and childbirth would be. Placenta previa patient? You'd be dead, no doubt. Need a c-section? Probably dead. Someone with horrible health issues like me that make pregnancy incompatible with life? You see where I'm going. Then there's the smell and filth factor. Even though I'm a lesbian and less likely to contract STDs than heterosexuals and gay men, I still would abstain, just because of how filthy everyone is.

[ghoulina]

Agree. STDs would scare me more than pregnancy. 

 

Honestly, maybe people are hooking up - they're just not showing it. I really don't NEED to see another scene like the one with Robraham. I'm not Eugene. I don't delight in watching other people go at it. I figure some people are probably abstaining, and others might get their needs met if they feel the need to - even if a serious relationship isn't part of the equation. Unless the sex is an important part of the plot, we don't really need to see it, right? I felt like showing Robraham knocking boots was more about Eugene than them. 

[nachomama]

It wouldn't be just birthday sex, it would be onlyifwefindanicestreamandcanwashthefilthaway sex. 

 

All these buildings made me think cities might be safer, if you can get higher ground. Barricade lower floors, walkers would be less likely to find their way up. Maybe not with foraging having been cleaned out around them. ROOFTOP GARDEN! 

 

Hanging plastic bags out the window was to collect water?? 

[Misty79]

I would fear STDs after the fall of civilization. Think about it. The pharmacies have been raided. Going about getting tested for STDs would be pretty damn hard, and treated for them next to impossible. So things like syphilis would become rampant and untreated, with people ending up with saddle noses after a few years and succumbing to syphilitic insanity. Gonorrhea, chlamydia, pubic lice, all of that would be on the rise if people were fucking like crazy. Not to mention how hard pregnancy and childbirth would be. Placenta previa patient? You'd be dead, no doubt. Need a c-section? Probably dead. Someone with horrible health issues like me that make pregnancy incompatible with life? You see where I'm going. Then there's the smell and filth factor. Even though I'm a lesbian and less likely to contract STDs than heterosexuals and gay men, I still would abstain, just because of how filthy everyone is.

 

Going by that logic nobody would have had sex before 1920 or so, given the lack of contraception and basic health care/checks.

 

I'm surprised by the lack of sex in the TWD universe too. Condoms would be acceptable for most people I would think, so I don't buy pregnancy and STDs as a reason for abstinence. It seems to be a constant in these sort of shows (particularly the ones coming out of the States) that horrific violence is fine to depict on screen but sexual relations usually occur off of it. That old double standard. I don't want to see it every episode but it's a core part of our base existence that seems odd to ignore. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by Misty79

[Nashville]

I don't know why that ambulance didn't completely flip over and land on its roof.

Oh, it would have in reality - landed either nose-first or maybe on the roof, unless those wacky bridge walkers put some hellacious flip english on the rear bumper when they tipped it over.  The heaviest part of an unloaded van is the nose, where the engine is.  I expect they didn't have to go through more than a couple of vans for the stunt, though; one for the exterior over-the-side-of-the-bridge shot (and the cool loop-de-loop view through the windshield), and one to get dropped from a crane or magnet so as to land axles-down.  :)

 

I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose was  of going into the van. Were they expecting the bad guys to have written down their evil plan in detail, complete with their location, the number of people they had, blueprints of their layout etc.? I mean, just because they use a stretcher from Hospital X doesn't mean they're hiding out there...

 

No, but they may have found a title or registration slip with an address.  Think about it; when that van originally cracked up, you had a driver in a van hanging half-off a bridge, and probably walkers all around.  Under those circumstances, are you really going to be all that worried about hanging on to paperwork?  :)

 

And one more thing (that at least one other person pointed out):  Ain't no way the cops didn't know (or wouldn't have known is a better way of saying it) they were being trailed by another car.  C'mon, you're already on guard, it's night, walkers are everywhere, it's deathly quiet, and a large dark car is following behind you in your exact same path.  C'mon.

 

Now, what would have been cool, is if they had acknowledged that.  Then we could have had a Rockford Files car chase, knocking over walkers, and tearing down streets.  That would have been COOL.  (But not exactly in keeping with the show. Alas.)

 

I'm sure they were alert - for walkers and potential pedestrian pickups.  For a dark car running with no lights and (at least initially) hanging back out of earshot, though?  Maybe not so much.

 

I do agree, though - when the Crossmobile initially stopped, Daryl had pulled up WAY too close for comfort.

 

Apparently the tents are made of stronger stuff than Dale.  We saw a walker basically disembowel him with its bare hands way back in season 2 but they can't tear through a nylon tent.  Or maybe like a lot of us they get so befuddled trying to manage the zipper that it never occurs to them to just rip through it.

 

That's why they call it RIPSTOP nylon, donchaknow.  :D

 

I do think the cops saw them.

The guy turned and stood for several seconds as if he was staring right at them, and they cut back and forth between them a time or two.

 

My impression was, the cop was hearing the snarls from the walker at Carol's window - which, even if he couldn't see the car in the dark, the walker sound alone should have been a great big freakin' flyin' red flag there was live meat wandering around out there somewhere.  But these guys are lazy.  I guess all that raping really takes it out of a guy.

 

I don't know if they meant it to be funny but I laughed SO hard when the walkers started hitting the roof of the van after it hit the ground.

Two words kept repeating themselves in my head:

"Purple rain... purple rain...."

 

:D

[JBody]

Nice callback to the S1 episode Guts, Darryl and Noah escaping in a similar truck.

Plus they also left someone behind.

 

Yes, lots of S1 call backs lately (and in Beth's Slaptown ep too, her waking in a hospital bed a la Rick in the premiere), due to the Atlanta setting, and have two S1 characters traipsing through it.  I noticed the cut in half zombie as they walked away from the improbable van crash was a sort of nod to the half bicycle girl zombie in the premiere.

 

So, Daryl and Carol.  One has to wonder, how would this ep be perceived by someone just joining us now, someone completely untainted by the shipper wars (I have no horse in the race that is to see how fast Daryl can be hooked up --it's an interminably slow process, so I suppose race is the wrong word).  Here we have two obviously damaged people just barely holding on.  They appear to have veritable oceans of emotions between them left unspoken.  It was starting to get on my nerves, their being all "tongue-tied and twisted."  Many currents running between them under the surface, which --NR and MMB being the consummate actors they are-- they were able to convey without words.  But geeze louise, if Daryl had any game at all, even the tiniest shred of it, he would've made a move when they both flopped down on the bottom bunk.  Conveniently, zombies intervened.  

 

The horror element was back in full force, which I loved.  There is something about the abandoned city scape in the post-apocalyptic genre that never gets old in inspiring terror.  Did I like the flashbacks?  Sort of.  I liked Carol's breaking down in the car after being so stone cold with Rick, and I liked her matter-of-factly setting up shop in the lawyer's office.  Was it worth waiting a year for?  No.  

 

I am not a fan of this sprawling, sideways, split-time, back and forth, "bottle eppy" mode of storytelling.  A bit of some of that is good, I'm not asking for an uber linear narrative all the damned time.  But this convoluted, Byzantine, make-us-wait-a-year shit is just testing my patience.  I've been pretty vocal about my disdain for the frequency of the bottle eps used in the back half of S4, and now the front half of S5.  Please please please don't let this be the way of TWD from here to eternity.  I.  Just. Can't. Take. Much. More.

[Yolapukka]

 

I am fairly certain Daryl's least concern was possible injury to the person who had stolen their own means of defense - especially considering Noah had just slung a walker onto an injured Carol.  I fully supported Daryl's blitz attack

 

 

Nashville I agree with your point, I actually do think body slamming Noah was an excellent call on Daryl's part, my problem is more about the stakes for physical injury being amped up to a ridiculous extent such that the relatively minor results for the characters made it seem like the action was from a roadrunner cartoon and in the case of the van crash, required bad judgement from characters. My complaint is not about Daryl but lies with the production and script decision to have the bookcase subsequently topple over onto Noah.  I was completely taken out of it by the way a crushing injury like that could play out in real life. It's Walkng Dead, so I don't mind violence and mayhem, obviously, but the scene didn't work for me. Noah's introduction  to Carol and Daryl could have had high stakes but didn't need to have the kind of drama where I dislike the actions of two of the three characters involved and think that they are covering old ground with the third. I felt they were trying too hard to make it a Big Moment, in terms of both the drama of the episode and Carol as a character. It led to what I found was a really hollow contrived scene.  

 

Daryl may very well have been willing to leave Noah there in the moment when he turned his back, but if he'd held onto it I think he would have not been in a position to react so quickly to Carol speaking up, it was like he was waiting for her to give the word and fully expected her to do so. If he had been fully prepared to leave Noah to die, I think it would have been a better script choice to have Carol stop the walker and then plead for his assistance.

[Mindymoo]

Going by that logic nobody would have had sex before 1920 or so, given the lack of contraception and basic health care/checks.

 

I'm surprised by the lack of sex in the TWD universe too. Condoms would be acceptable for most people I would think, so I don't buy pregnancy and STDs as a reason for abstinence. It seems to be a constant in these sort of shows (particularly the ones coming out of the States) that horrific violence is fine to depict on screen but sexual relations usually occur off of it. That old double standard. I don't want to see it every episode but it's a core part of our base existence that seems odd to ignore. 

I'm not saying they didn't. But now that we've had treatments for these things and would be going back to having basically nothing, I wouldn't want to risk it. Look up pictures of saddle nose, or the findings of the awful Tuskegee experiments on syphilis. That's definitely not something I would want to risk. I would want to be in the best physical condition possible when there are man-eating zombies running around. The zombie apocalypse is no place for syphilitic insanity.

[JackONeill]

It wouldn't be just birthday sex, it would be onlyifwefindanicestreamandcanwashthefilthaway sex. 

 

All these buildings made me think cities might be safer, if you can get higher ground. Barricade lower floors, walkers would be less likely to find their way up. Maybe not with foraging having been cleaned out around them. ROOFTOP GARDEN! 

 

Hanging plastic bags out the window was to collect water?? 

 

Totally agreed.  Plus, you're in THE CITY.  You can take in the show, stop in at your favorite restaurant and NOT have to wait.  Think of the benefits.

[40Love]

Anyway, I don't care. I just want the writers stop devoting all this time to Carol when we already know who she is as well as Abraham, etc. and move the main plot along.

 

What is the main plot to you? That's a sincere question, not a sarcastic one. To me the main plot of TWD is a core group of characters who have done, witnessed, advocated, experienced some seriously messed up shit and watching how they process and cope with their new reality. To me, this episode did that perfectly.

 

While I miss Rick and Michonne and whole group together... I really liked this episode. It dove a little deeper into their psyches and I do think we learned something new about them. For instance... as nonchalant as Carol originally seemed at Rick exiling her, she was actually pretty broken up about it. She's still hurting over a lot of stuff and trying to find her way back. That's great to me.

 

It was also nice to be out of the woods... and in the clean, bright (by comparison) city scenes. IMHO, for the story to be compelling the group (separated or together) needs antagonists (besides the Zombies), sometimes that antagonist is their their own inner demons.

 

If Beth and Darryl hadn't been on their own..there would be no hospital villains to take down...So I'm good with it.

 

This episode should have been called:"Everyone Hates Noah".  I know I do.  I get it that in the ZA you really can't trust anyone, so stealing some of Carol's and Daryl's weapons made sense.  But there was no reason to set tent walkers loose on them.   Noah should have been able to block the door in some other way.

 

I don't think there was any other way for Noah. He hobbled to that door at the speed of my 90 year old grandfather. Hell even the two tent Zombies didn't really slow down Carol and Daryl. Carol had plenty of time to aim the gun at his ..umm leg. Without the zombie release they would have been on top of his slow ass before he even reached the end of the hallway. :-)

[SoSueMe]

I don't need every walker kill to be Rick standing over them reading the contents of their wallet to give them meaning like he did way back in Guts, and I do get that by now the novelty has long since worn off for our gang and that they're mostly just an annoyance to be dealt with.  But I really like the little moments when someone takes at least a beat or two among all the cool zombie kills to remember that these monsters used to be someone who had a life too.  That's about the only redeeming thing I've found so far in the entire saga of Father Pee Pants.  He had known the walker at the food pantry and remembered her.

GMTA, sorry I posted before reading your post. You said it better :)

[BrokenRemote]

I don't live for the constant action and violence, so I liked this episode. The flashbacks weren't there to tell us something we didn't already know had happened to Carol, they were to emphasize a point, quietly, subtly. Every single one of those flashbacks was a turning point in Carol's life, a point where she was again tried by fire (and with each shot carrying an image of fire to drive the point home). And if you didn't get that, then they had the conversation about their old selves burning away. And the episode title. And all the fires Daryl was lighting throughout the episode. To me the flashbacks were the fires that forged a new Carol, and the new fires (funeral pyre, legal pad, dumpster) were proof that it is other people that will be the final refining fires for people like Carol and Daryl who are trying to be better people.

Not every moment in every episode has to be giving me some new piece of information or moving the plot. I think we've gotten into an 'action flick' mentality, because that's what Hollywood churns out so much of these days, and if we aren't on the edges of our seats every second it seems boring. It goes hand in hand with the need for instant gratification that seems to shape our society so much of late.

I think this was the most cohesive, well-told story we've seen in a long time.

[JBody]

It's not a competition.  It's not who suffered more. It's: why go on? Carol was a failure in life  (in her eyes) before the apocalypse, then lost her husband, then her daughter, then her community of Rick etc., then her next community of Tyreese & the girls.  Now she's on a mission to save Beth even though we have no reason to think cares about Beth, and on top of htat "we don't get to rescue people anymore". Mostly because Darryl's force of will is pulling her along.    What's the point?  Perhaps you're suggesting she should work towards helping her friends. But she basically has written everyone  off.  She fled the church because she expected all those people to die, like everyone else, and she couldn't bear to watch it.  From a character viewpoint, it wouldn't make any sense for her to get more emotionally enmeshed in her friend's struggles.  It's pretty much one foot in front of the other survival mode.

 

You know what, that's almost exactly what Morgan says to Rick during S3's Clear, when Rick asked him to come back to the prison with him.  Morgan refused, because Rick, Carl and Michonne, all the people they loved, all the people at the prison, were going to die.  Hmmm....  wheels turning....  perhaps the good ship Carol and Morgan will be setting sail at some point in the near future (by TWD standards that means 5 years from now, 1 month show time).

[meep.meep]

It wouldn't be just birthday sex, it would be onlyifwefindanicestreamandcanwashthefilthaway sex. 

 

All these buildings made me think cities might be safer, if you can get higher ground. Barricade lower floors, walkers would be less likely to find their way up. Maybe not with foraging having been cleaned out around them. ROOFTOP GARDEN! 

 

Hanging plastic bags out the window was to collect water?? 

 

It was the plastic bottles that she hung out the window, I assume to collect water.

 

I think the setup at the hospital is pretty good for survival.  Several secure floors, the roof top garden for growing food and space to put out big water collectors, enough personnel to go on foraging runs for other stuff, even eating the guinea pigs for meat.

 

I got a real Heavens Gate vibe from the "camping" walkers - like they all committed suicide not realizing that they would come back even if they weren't bit.

[NoWillToResist]

 

I'm surprised by the lack of sex in the TWD universe too. Condoms would be acceptable for most people I would think, so I don't buy pregnancy and STDs as a reason for abstinence.

 

But Sasha and Bob had a good point: no privacy. Not everyone is okay with being watched. ;)

 

 

No, but they may have found a title or registration slip with an address.  Think about it; when that van originally cracked up, you had a driver in a van hanging half-off a bridge, and probably walkers all around.  Under those circumstances, are you really going to be all that worried about hanging on to paperwork?  :)

 

But people grab whatever vehicles they can. I mean, Daryl and Noah stole some box truck. If people were after them, what use would the pink slips be? If they hot-wired a Coca Cola delivery van, would people assume they were hiding out in the nearest Coca Cola factory?

 

 

I liked her matter-of-factly setting up shop in the lawyer's office.

 

I liked that she rattled something near the door so that (A) she could see any potential walkers coming and (B) could get out if there were too many. I’ve never understood why these people insist on walking right into the depths of a building and getting surprised by a walker; they know they’re attracted to noise, so make ‘em come to you!

 

 

It was the plastic bottles that she hung out the window, I assume to collect water.

 

I'm 90% sure that she had attached ziploc bags to a coat hanger to hang out the window (presumably to collect water for her empty bottles).

Edited November 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Ottis]

I felt we did learn some new things.

 

We learned what Noah has been up to since leaving, that's he's been hanging around fairly close, probably with the intention of going back to help Beth. And we learned who was in the bushes with Daryl that night and just HOW Carol ended up in the hospital - all of which was just spec before.

 

 

None of it adds any meaningful info to what we knew. It's like that episode of Lost when the doc gets a tattoo and we learn how we got it. So? he has a tattoo. What's next?

 

We learned where Carol went after being banished, and that she didn't hesitate for a minute to come back when she realized they were in trouble. We learned that she once took Sophia to a shelter to get away from Ed, but left the next day - something which she apparently still hates herself for. I think a lot of Carol's angst isn't just about the things that have happened since the turn (Karvid, the Grove), but her life prior. I think the Carol that she is now HATES the Carol that she was then, and she's having a very hard time forgiving herself what she put Sophia through.

 

 

Details that explained events in the past that didn't need more explanation. Carol's issues have always clearly included those from her pre-ZA life. And she is still alive, so she had to have hidden somewhere.

 

We also learned that Daryl seems to finally be getting to a place where he's ready to work through HIS issues, given that he took that book from the shelter.

 

 

The show has shown this multiple times before, as Daryl has become less wild redneck and more  "civilized." This was just the latest baby step.

 

My earlier comment wasn't meant to mean we literally didn't learn anything new. Every show shows *something* new. The meaning was more that none of what we learned changed anything about what we already knew. People who are into relationships or certain characters might have dug this episode. People into the overall story were marking time. This season has been a slow decent from a great start. Maybe it will have a great ending?

[RustbeltWriter]

What is the main plot to you? That's a sincere question, not a sarcastic one. To me the main plot of TWD is a core group of characters who have done, witnessed, advocated, experienced some seriously messed up shit and watching how they process and cope with their new reality. To me, this episode did that perfectly.

 

 

Now that is an excellent question. For me, the show falls down whenever constant danger is used to propel the characters. If they aren't fighting the dead, they're fighting the iving. Forever and ever and ever. The show really needs some direction, some sort of long term goal. If we're just watching every week to see which member of the band is whacked or what horrible punishment the writers can put them through, then we're a bunch of sadists. I need a bit more. Maybe finding a group like Grady Memorial will give Rick's group a chance to do more than kill someone.

Edited November 17, 2014 by RustbeltWriter

[NoWillToResist]

Now that is an excellent question. For me, the show falls down whenever constant danger is used to propel the characters. If they aren't fighting the dead, they're fighting the iving. Forever and ever and ever. The show really needs some direction, some sort of long term goal.

 

I think that's why I was so bored with the farm story...they were basically squatting. Whereas at the prison, they were building a new home/community. As far as I can tell, they would have lived there forever if they could have. I'd like to see some of that again. Constantly on the move is tiring, and again, where are you going? One should have a destination...aimless wandering will get boring.

 

Maybe they can either merge or overtake the hospital's set up. There are clearly plenty of resources in Atlanta. Everyone got the hell outta there..there must be TONS of buildings which haven't been picked clean. Our group is very efficient at killing walkers, so I think they could set up a very nice existence in the city.

[Constantinople]

Going by that logic nobody would have had sex before 1920 or so, given the lack of contraception and basic health care/checks.

 

I'm surprised by the lack of sex in the TWD universe too. Condoms would be acceptable for most people I would think, so I don't buy pregnancy and STDs as a reason for abstinence.

Given how much time has passed and their exposure to the elements, if only extremes of hot and cold due to a lack of heating and air conditioning, I'd think any condoms would be much less reliable than pre-ZA.

It seems to be a constant in these sort of shows (particularly the ones coming out of the States) that horrific violence is fine to depict on screen but sexual relations usually occur off of it. That old double standard. I don't want to see it every episode but it's a core part of our base existence that seems odd to ignore.

Pay cable needs a good zombie show!

[Timetoread]

They also filmed it from a viewers’ point of view rather than the character’s which is a device I don’t like. i.e. We are supposed to think the decision not to shoot Noah was right because, as viewers, we already know Noah is a good guy. However, Carol and Daryl do not have this information.  If, like them, we had never seen Noah before, we’d absolutely think he should have been shot in the leg. Some hostile dude, unprovoked, had stolen their weapons and unleashed walkers at them. This is up and up murder in mind whatever the words coming out of his mouth. Losing all their weapons is likely to kill them, kill their mission, and as a result kill Beth too, not taking Noah out is actually a very stupid move with no meta information on hand.

 

Actually, I think Noah did show himself to be worth saving.  He took their weapons, but he was apologizing the whole time.  He didn't try to rape the female.  He didn't pistol whip the male.  He didn't kill them or even really threaten to kill them.  He told them point blank that what he needed was weapons and he took their main weapons but not their back ups.  He was alone but he left them to each other.  AND he was a scared and limping kid.  After retrieving my weapons from him, I would DEFINITELY have spared him long enough to see what his story was and determine whether he should be killed, left for dead, or brought along as a new member of CDB.

 

I don't thing crossbow or katana can ever truly be away from their master and mistress. They always find a way back.

 

Hee!  This is making me think of the Lord of the Rings:  "It hears it's master's call."  "It WANTS to be found."

 

One other thought.  I wonder what dynamics will fall in place when Rick meets the hospital cops.  Rick was the sheriff in his town and I wonder if the others will subconsciously respond to his alphaness.  Rick has never had ANY patience for rape and plunder bullying and I don't think it will take him long at all to weed out the cops that need to be put off the force.  Dawn, I'm looking at you.

[Turtle]

Pregnancy and STDs would definitely be a concern with sex in the ZA, but so is everything else.  These people take a lot of bigger risks than herpes every single day, and, to me, intimate physical contact is as important to survival long-term as are food and water.  Or at least, to any type of mentally healthy survival.  Plus, at this point, if someone has raging gonorrhea or something, they'd either be insane or dead, or it would be pretty noticeable because of the lack of treatment and proper hygiene.  Finally, I would imagine a lot of hooking up would be fueled by emotion and adrenaline, and possibly not involving a lot of rational risk assessment.  But I agree with the larger point, that it's something the show probably doesn't need to show too often, even though it's likely happening, if it isn't relevant to the story at hand.  We don't see them pooping or dealing with periods, either, but that's got to be happening at least occasionally!  

 

The idea of living in a taller city building is interesting.  To me, the biggest two issues would be finding food and water, and disposing of waste.  I suppose both could be managed with occasional foraging trips, though.  I wonder - do we know if the bombing of Atlanta (which I had forgotten about) killed a lot of people who may have still been in town and had supplies, thus leaving supplies behind?  There might be more local scavenging possibilities than it would seem at first sight.  And of course the rooftop garden suggested above!  

Edited November 17, 2014 by Turtle

[JackONeill]

Maybe I'm not supposed to bring this up, but remember the movie 28 Days Later (or After)(or Down the Road)(or whatever the hell name it was).  They showed a father and daughter living in a high rise in London. They explained a lot about how they'd managed to love.  But, in the end, they moved on.  (Was it because of lack of water???)

 

But I saw that nice building that Daryl and Carol were in (with the painting) and I said, "Home Sweet Home!"

[Diane M]

Daryl, honey, I love you. But somewhere in that zombie apocalypse there has to be a bar of soap and shampoo.

And a pair of scissors for much needed haircuts.

Daryl brings Noah back to the church and he's going to mount an army to get Beth back.

And Carol with her head bandaged.  I don't want a scene of Carol dying in Daryl's arms.  To me, she's too important a character in Rick's family to bite the dust.

[BluenoserGal]

Ok, speaking of the general filth and hygiene of the ZA -- Daryl, take that damn arrow out of your mouth!!!  Seriously dude, do you KNOW where that's been?    I can't imagine he's doing any more than wiping it on his arm.

 

Of all things, that really grossed me out.

[SoSueMe]

I am toying with the idea that Daryl's "that was stupid" remark following the van fiasco was actually the show's creators acknowledging that goof up. Maybe the scene was already in the can or whatever and they felt they had to use it but realized it really was stupid. 

 

Re: sex after the ZA. I remember a long time ago being told by an adult that even during famines it was inbred in humans to subconsciously feel the need to procreate. Perpetuation of the species, doncha know .

[Ohwell]

It was the plastic bottles that she hung out the window, I assume to collect water.

Did she split she bottles in half, because otherwise they looked like plastic bags to me, too.

[Lyndy]

Damn, I liked this episode. I don't have a well considered reason other than I could watch these two actors hang together all season. And I kind of like the new kid even if he did steal Daryl's crossbow.

I appreciated that they kept the flashbacks to a minimum. I'm feeling some flashback fatigue regarding TV in general. I thought it was used well here -- just enough to give is a touch of insight into Carol, not so much that I'm yelling "alright, already! Get back to the point!" at my TV.

[CletusMusashi]

This. Was. Boring. I got home late, so I could only watch it one time. Usually I give it another chance or five, but I just can't get motivated to sit through it again.

 

Carol single-handedly carried the premier episode, but that's because things actually happened in it. What did we learn this week? Carol has feelings? Daryl was abused? Noah meets up with someone from the main cast? Main characters can always get out of smashed cars and walk away? Shelves become dangerous when there are newly-introduced black guys in the room? Daryl is a tough guy with a crossbow who still has the exact same undamaged arrows after using each one of them 10,000 times? Zombies are a weak, ineffectual nuisance except when the plot demands them to be scary? Carol ends up in the hospital? The lollicops are really, really stupid?

 

Some scenes were done well enough for what they were, and others were just silly. But there was nothing important in it. You could easily skip this entire hour and rejoin whatever passes for a story next week without missing a beat. This season sucks, and my hopes of it getting better are rapidly plummeting.

 

Count me among those who think they're going to kill Carol off soon. If that happens, I think I'm done with the show. Glenn and Maggie never do anything. Tyreese has been flanderized into a useless wuss, and is now being sidelined in favor of an even more uselelss wuss in the form of Father Pee Pants. Sasha and Michonne are invisible. Rick is an idiot. Carl's character doesn't bug me as much as it used to, but his growth rate confuses the shit out of their timeline, and I will never like that stupid hat. Beth is going to start singing as soon as she escapes, and then she'll get drunk and burn down whatever shelter they're staying in. And then Maggie will give a huge crying speech about how much she's missed her the entire time! And I never gave a fuck about the Washington Redscalp team. Carol and maybe Tara are like the only things about this show that haven't gotten steadily worse over time. I'm starting to wish the Governor had moved in with them. At least then we'd get some zany Odd Couple hijinks.

Edited November 18, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[NoWillToResist]

move on, people. Nothing to see here but an internet fart....  :)

Edited November 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[JBody]

Did she split she bottles in half, because otherwise they looked like plastic bags to me, too.

 

TPTB should've split the bottles in half, too.  They were plastic sandwich ziploc baggies, by the way.

[ghoulina]

None of it adds any meaningful info to what we knew. It's like that episode of Lost when the doc gets a tattoo and we learn how we got it. So? he has a tattoo. What's next?

 

I've never seen Lost, but I think that getting a tattoo is somewhat different than entering a hospital. I DO think the how of it is important. If Carol had faked an injury to get inside, that would give me more hope. But we learned that she is really hurt - on top of ALREADY being really hurt (by the ambulance fall). And we know that the staff at the hospital doesn't like "wasting resources" on helpless cases....so the clock is ticking for Carol. I think all of that is very meaningful, but of course people may have a different opinion. 

 

 

 

The show has shown this multiple times before, as Daryl has become less wild redneck and more  "civilized." This was just the latest baby step.

 

I actually don't see that as a baby step at all. For someone like Daryl, I imagine picking up a self help book, with the intent to really figure himself out, is HUGE. It's one thing to let down his guard and form friendships with others, but it seems like he is really ready to dig deep, something *I* don't think he's ever truly done before.

 

 

 

The idea of living in a taller city building is interesting.  To me, the biggest two issues would be finding food and water, and disposing of waste.  I suppose both could be managed with occasional foraging trips, though.  I wonder - do we know if the bombing of Atlanta (which I had forgotten about) killed a lot of people who may have still been in town and had supplies, thus leaving supplies behind?  There might be more local scavenging possibilities than it would seem at first sight.  And of course the rooftop garden suggested above!

 

See, for me, scavenging would be a lot more risky in a big city like ATL, because of the sheer number of walkers. I'd take a town like the one Sasha wanted to set up shop in - decent sized buildings, but not a lot of undead population to deal with. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by ghoulina

[Mindymoo]

Re: sex after the ZA. I remember a long time ago being told by an adult that even during famines it was inbred in humans to subconsciously feel the need to procreate. Perpetuation of the species, doncha know .

Or perhaps they had advanced copies of "A Modest Proposal" by Jonathon Swift.

[paigow]

And a pair of scissors for much needed haircuts.

 

Now that he has a machete, someone can style him at the church before going back for Beth. 

[Ohwell]

They were plastic sandwich ziploc baggies, by the way

Thanks, that's what they looked like. 

 

I think the thing that annoys me about Carol the way the writers have written her to be so smart  now, when there was never any indication in past seasons that she was anything more than a brooding, abused wife and, later on, a brooding, grieving mother.  The whole thing with saving the people at Terminus and blowing shit up?  Yeah, only Carol could have been smart enough to think up that scenario.  I mean, would anyone else have thought to use ziploc bags on a hanger to catch water?  Plastic bottles, yes.  Trash cans, yes.  But ziploc bags?

[JBody]

CletusMusashi, I was waiting for that.  Didn't you think it was... interesting... how Daryl and Carol sat there on a stake out, presumably concealed by the lack of running lights, meanwhile looking like the biggest heat score in the post-ZA world with a pack of zombies slavering all over their car?  How about Carol walking off some broken bones from the improbable van fall and then being hit broad side by a stationwagon -- any bets after 5 minutes of bed rest she's up and putting a few rounds through the hospital door which just misses Dawn's sock bun and/or Dr. Death's stethoscope?  But the truly gripping question is, how does Father Pee Pants and Sgt. Moobs factor into this?  Not to mention Derle, Bethie, Bethie's new bestie Noah the hospital noob, Maglennta, hoop earings, mullet, Tyreese the cowardly lion, Sasha, Rick, Michonne, Carl, Judith...  anyone else?  I feel like I'm missing someone.  Oh hell no.  Morgan!  I really do want to know about Morgan though...

[JackONeill]

Now that he has a machete, someone can style him at the church before going back for Beth. 

 

Nothing to do with your machete comment, but you hit on something that's become a pet peeve of mine: All this back and forth, walking in circles, these episode thirty minutes before that episode . . . it's like so much dithering and I hate dithering.  We don't seem to be moving ahead.  As much as I'm not crazy about Abraham, I do like his "We're not going back.  We're going ahead."  (Or whatever his exact words were.)

 

I mean, it's been a YEAR AND A HALF and we're still in the same spot.  In fact, I think we're a little south of it, so, if anything, we've gone backwards!!!

[Pestilentia]

 

Re: sex after the ZA. I remember a long time ago being told by an adult that even during famines it was inbred in humans to subconsciously feel the need to procreate. Perpetuation of the species, doncha know .

It's the #1 Prime Directive.

People are not going to stop having sex no matter what the risks.

[Nashville]

But people grab whatever vehicles they can. I mean, Daryl and Noah stole some box truck. If people were after them, what use would the pink slips be? If they hot-wired a Coca Cola delivery van, would people assume they were hiding out in the nearest Coca Cola factory?

 

  

It's better than their other clues - but oh yeah, they didn't have any. :)

Like I believe Daryl said (with a shrug): "It's a lead."

The idea of living in a taller city building is interesting.  To me, the biggest two issues would be finding food and water, and disposing of waste.  I suppose both could be managed with occasional foraging trips, though.  I wonder - do we know if the bombing of Atlanta (which I had forgotten about) killed a lot of people who may have still been in town and had supplies, thus leaving supplies behind?  There might be more local scavenging possibilities than it would seem at first sight.  And of course the rooftop garden suggested above!

If you don't mind living in a 30th floor walk-up, then I say hey, go for it. :)

[JackONeill]

It's the #1 Prime Directive.

People are not going to stop having sex no matter what the risks.

That was Captain Kirk's Prime Directive!

[ghoulina]

Dawn's sock bun

 

I'm dying. 

[Nashville]

It's the #1 Prime Directive.

People are not going to stop having sex no matter what the risks.

 

 

That was Captain Kirk's Prime Directive!

So a revision is in order:

People are not going to stop having sex no matter what the risks or shade of green.

Actually that kinda works in ZombieLand, if you're bent enough to try....

[Soobs]

Nothing to do with your machete comment, but you hit on something that's become a pet peeve of mine: All this back and forth, walking in circles, these episode thirty minutes before that episode . . . it's like so much dithering and I hate dithering.  We don't seem to be moving ahead.  As much as I'm not crazy about Abraham, I do like his "We're not going back.  We're going ahead."  (Or whatever his exact words were.)

 

I mean, it's been a YEAR AND A HALF and we're still in the same spot.  In fact, I think we're a little south of it, so, if anything, we've gone backwards!!!

 

It was interesting to me that Daryl found a pack of Morleys (which was The Smoking Man's brand on the X-files) in this episode. Like the X-files, The Walking Dead doesn't seem to have a destination or a goal in mind. Of course, WD has the comics as a map, but the comics sort of just go on and on too.

 

As a sidenote, I liked the scene were Carol and Daryl looked at the painting. I worry about culture after the apocalypse especially seeing them burn books from the last episode. How fast all the books would go when people got cold! It was nice to see them save a couple of books as well.

 

[MrWhyt]

 

I've been pretty vocal about my disdain for the frequency of the bottle eps used in the back half of S4, and now the front half of S5.

Just to nit-pick. These aren't bottle episodes. A bottle episode is shot entirely on existing sets, using few if any guest cast and as little effects as possible. This keeps the costs down. See Community's season 2 episode Cooperative Calligraphy for example.

[RedheadZombie]

Carol showing compassion later on in the episode in the effort to save Noah seemed out of place, since she was about to shoot him not that long ago.  I was a bit surprised that Daryl finally backed down and was willing to pull Noah out from under that bookcase.   

 

I think it's one thing to shoot at someone stealing your weapons, and another to watch a helpless kid who's begging for your help and yelling he's sorry.  And he said it exactly like a little kid who's getting beaten - "I'm sorry, help me, I'm sorry", because little kids think saying it makes everything better.

 

I get excited every time someone explores a beautiful, unspoiled building. I keep imagining how great it would feel to find safe water and food and self-help books.

 

Me too.  They're always so untouched and immaculate.  I guess the folks mowing the lawn and staking tomato plants, also do all the dusting.

 

Great episode. Melissa McBride and Norman Reedus are both incredibly strong actors and among the few remaining originals from Season 1.  I was interested in seeing how Daryl and Carol would interact given that they had been separated most of last season. I also thought the flashbacks of Carol here were effective for a change since I was annoyed last season that the show spent 2 whole episodes on the Governor, while not spending any time telling us what happened to Carol after Rick sent her away.

 

And what a difference between the opening of this episode and the first governor-centric episode!  His came of as a SNL skit as he roams with an obviously fake beard, running into walkers - miraculously undetected, as old western music plays (at least it was in my head).  It was pure (unintentional) satire.  But this - I loved seeing how Carol acted after she drove off that day.  And all the other flash backs that are being complained about - they weren't much more than a minute each.

 

MMB has the ability to emote and when she tears up, she makes me tear up.  From the breakdown in the car, watching Daryl burn the bodies so she wouldn't have to, reaching out for Daryl's hand right before the van flipped - they were the highlight of the entire season, if not all seasons, for me.

 

I can never remember if previews are spoilers, so I'm going to spoiler tag this -

Seeing Beth reach out and take Carol's hand was so poignant. I had no doubt Carol would try to save Beth - she probably sees her as a grown Sophia. But it looks like Beth will be doing a little saving of Carol, too (fingers crossed). These two women have no idea that they're supposed to be bitter enemies, cat-fighting for Daryl's love.

[JBody]

Just to nit-pick. These aren't bottle episodes. A bottle episode is shot entirely on existing sets, using few if any guest cast and as little effects as possible. This keeps the costs down. See Community's season 2 episode Cooperative Calligraphy for example.

 

Yeah.  I sort of flip flop on what to call them.  Bottle-ep-esque?  I grow tired of the solos.  Wanna see the band back together.

[NoWillToResist]

 

If Carol had faked an injury to get inside, that would give me more hope. But we learned that she is really hurt - on top of ALREADY being really hurt (by the ambulance fall). And we know that the staff at the hospital doesn't like "wasting resources" on helpless cases....so the clock is ticking for Carol

 

Well, don't forget, she's a woman, so the cops will have at least ONE use for her! And if she's too injured to put up a fight, that's just a bonus!! I think I just grossed myself out.

 

 

I think the thing that annoys me about Carol the way the writers have written her to be so smart  now, when there was never any indication in past seasons that she was anything more than a brooding, abused wife and, later on, a brooding, grieving mother.  The whole thing with saving the people at Terminus and blowing shit up?  Yeah, only Carol could have been smart enough to think up that scenario.  I mean, would anyone else have thought to use ziploc bags on a hanger to catch water?  Plastic bottles, yes.  Trash cans, yes.  But ziploc bags?

 

People can't learn? That was one of the things that made me LIKE Carol; that she got off her mopey ass and started learning useful ZA shit. Carol was involved with the water collection back at the prison, so I'm sure she picked up some tips. I don't assume that she just HAS all this knowledge. She's lived in the ZA for a long time and has interacted with lots of people; I'm sure she's picked up many tricks.

 

 

If you don't mind living in a 30th floor walk-up, then I say hey, go for it.

 

Cardio is very important in a zombie apocalypse...gotta keep fit!

 

 

I grow tired of the solos.  Wanna see the band back together.

 

Much as I like Daryl and Carol bonding time, I have to agree. I was so happy that the premiere brought an end to the split groups. And then they promptly split the group up. *sigh*

Edited November 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[The Mighty Peanut]

I believe Daryl is not a virgin but as you said has never been in a serious romantic relationship.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some level of abuse and humiliation in much of his sexual experience, with Meryl or their father pushing him into situations he wasn't ready for or interested in.  

 

And/or Daryl choosing not to pursue a serious romantic relationship because he could see Meryl or their father demanding he share the wealth or abusing him further for putting some piece of ass above his family. I don't think he's a virgin, though. A hot young guy with a functioning penis and very few comforts in a world with no rules or role models? He got some. :) 

Edited November 17, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[mandolin]

Remember Carol keeping the grenade? Maybe she wasn't always shown to be smart… but maybe forward thinking at least.

[ghoulina]

People can't learn? Carol was in charge of water collection back at the prison, so I'm sure she picked up some tips. I don't assume that she just HAS all this knowledge. She's lived in the ZA for a long time and has interacted with lots of people; I'm sure she's picked up many tricks.

 

True. And I don't think there was ever any indication that Carol was an idiot. But it's typical of women who are so beat down by their husbands to be afraid to ever even try anything, to believe in themselves, to assert themselves. Carol has gained a lot of confidence over the course of this show, she's not afraid to try new things. Some work, some don't. I certainly don't see her as a genius, but I do admire that she does seem to try and think things through. 

[Pete Martell]

I love the way the writers find new ways to present zombies. The invisible, fumbling zombie-trapped-in-a-tent was hilarious. Anybody who has ever tried to quickly get out of a tent in the middle of the night will appreciate it.

 

I thought this scene was very creative, but I also kept having my mind wander to when Daryl went inside the tent to try to find Sophia. I couldn't help wondering if that was intentional.

I think the bottle episodes are not to delve deep, they are to wrap up. The show is not giving us new chapters on characters, they are closing a book to start a very different new one, and that's why Michonne has no lines. That's why Carl is background. That's why Rick and Sasha and Tyreese are MIA. Because we'll be seeing plenty of them soon.They'll have lots of lines soon. Because they will appear in the new TWD 2.0.

Some other people won't.

 

Do other people really think those characters are being marginalized? IMO, hardly. We're at a retirement dinner with speeches and mementos. It's the viewers version of a death dinner. The entire sickness arc was a swan song for some people, especially Herschel/Scott Wilson.

Personally I have no worries about "Michonne and Maggie" being sacrificed for other characters. No more than Carl or Rick is being written out.

 

I agree that most of the bottle episodes have been to wrap up stories (the "cure" story in particular), but I'm not sure that means anything about the characters involved. I felt like, if anything, this episode was a way to write Carol out of a death-is-the-only-option path and start her on something fresh.