S05.E05: Self Help

[BrokenRemote]

I pretty much feel (hope?) that nobody would have much sensitivity to smell left.

Rewatching closely and it's still not clear what happened to Abe's family. They're all neat and clean, not a hair out of place, no tear-stained faces or ripped clothes. They're just huddling by a counter. That doesn't tell us much.

ETA Would it be safe to light a fire indoors like they did? Not only are they in a dry room full of flammable books, but isn't there a carbon monoxide risk (and a room full of sooty, smoky air)?

Edited November 10, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[Nashville]

I pretty much feel (hope?) that nobody would have much sensitivity to smell left.

Rewatching closely and it's still not clear what happened to Abe's family. They're all neat and clean, not a hair out of place, no tear-stained faces or ripped clothes. They're just huddling by a counter. That doesn't tell us much.

 

Watch a little further into the episode.  Once they left the store, Moobraham's family didn't make it much more than 50 yards before they became Zombie Chow.

[Guest]

I don't remember that many having this much detail left offscreen. I can't help wondering if AMC said they didn't want the rape of his wife and daughter mentioned on the episode.

 

Or they want Abraham to confess it to someone to form a bond and want that to be the first time its revealed.  Although probably not if TD is talking about it.  Not watching that this week.  I'd say it was in protest of having to watch the after show to understand what is going on but I just couldn't bring myself to watch a dissection of why this one bored me.

 

So next week is going to be week #4 that ends at the same point in time, I guess, and that with 3 episodes left.  At least I'm more interested in the characters involved next week; although this storytelling style didn't work for me last season and isn't working for me now.  Honestly Lost created a visceral hate for this approach to episodes..

[Madding crowd]

I couldn't see what they were looking at in the distance either, even on my HD TV. The episode is better than I thought it would be, but with only 3 episodes remaining, I want to see Rick and his crew. Abraham seems like a smart guy, why hasn't he figured out that Eugene is constantly sabotaging them? I also think Eugene acts so strange, I could never imagine him working in a lab, writing scientific papers, etc. 

 

I also had to watch TTD to find out Abraham's deal and once again I don't like the explanation: because this is what happened in the comic book. Everything on the TV show needs to stand on its own at this point. Many of us have not read and will never read the comic books. I didn't understand why he was beating the man to death, nor why his wife and kids would run out the door when I'm sure they knew there were walkers.

[bagatelle]

Is it just me or my television set? The scenes at night are SO hard to see. Even with all the lights off in the room. I wish there was a little back lighting going on, like moonlight.

 

It's not just you. I couldn't see a thing, either.  It was pitch black and that's very unusual with my TV.

 

I wasn't that impressed with hosing down the walkers.  I thought it was expected, although a terrible waste of water, considering they intended to use the truck for their journey. They've gotten out of worse hoards in the past, all on their own.

[nodorothyparker]

My first thought was "stockyard" - but almost as soon as I articulated the thought, it was immediately chased by the notion "Wait a minute - we're more than a year into the ZA.  How would they still be smelling...?"

 

I first thought maybe they were looking at a cattle lot too.  I really couldn't tell.

 

I'm in the I can't believe they can still smell anything awful at this point camp too.

[LilySilver]

As the walkers were pouring out of that building next to the firetruck, politely single file, was I the only one shouting at my TV, "SHUT THE FUCKING DOOR!!"?

 

Morons.

[Texasmom1970]

After five seasons of all the violence and brutal killings the scariest thing ever on this show was having to be subjected to a sex scene between Rosita and Abraham!

[TexasChic]

 

 

BROKENREMOTE, ON 09 NOV 2014 - 10:20 PM, SAID:

I pretty much feel (hope?) that nobody would have much sensitivity to smell left.

Rewatching closely and it's still not clear what happened to Abe's family. They're all neat and clean, not a hair out of place, no tear-stained faces or ripped clothes. They're just huddling by a counter. That doesn't tell us much.

Watch a little further into the episode.  Once they left the store, Moobraham's family didn't make it much more than 50 yards before they became Zombie Chow.

I think BROKENREMOTE was referring to how they didn't appear to have just been raped. There was no explanation for why he killed a bunch of people with his bare hands, which in turn scared them so bad that they left while he was sleeping.

 

ETA: sorry, not with his bare hands, with canned food.

Edited November 10, 2014 by TexasChic

[ajsnaves]

What did Eugene "running" away from the walkers remind me of? The Kids in the Hall, that's what.

 

Pretty lack luster episode until the end.  I ha d to laugh at Eugene watching from the self help section though.  This episode shows why I was not happy about about them splitting up again.  I don't want to have to keep repeating the same day over and over again, just with a different group.  I want to watch them all together.

[Milaxx]

I also had to watch TTD to find out Abraham's deal and once again I don't like the explanation: because this is what happened in the comic book. Everything on the TV show needs to stand on its own at this point. Many of us have not read and will never read the comic books. I didn't understand why he was beating the man to death, nor why his wife and kids would run out the door when I'm sure they knew there were walkers.

 

You may be in for a bit of disappointment then. At the beginning of the second half of this season Gimple said that they would be sticking pretty close to the comics for these back 8 episodes. I really wish they would let the show stand on it's own since I have no interest in reading the graphic novels, but TPTB seem to continually borrow from them.

 

I just noticed that Rosita looks a little like Abraham's dead wife. I wonder if that is intentional and if it will ever come up.

[TexasChic]

Okay, how about Eugene mumbling, "The preacher, he didn't see another way out" after the bus wreck? Add that to my list of 'what was that about?' along with suddenly smelling a horde when they never have before and Maggie never asking about Beth.

[BrokenRemote]

Yes, that's what I meant. Just now in the rewatch got to where the family sees him with blood on his hands and his wife looks the tiniest bit grimy. Her shirt could be ripped or just cut low--was too quick to be sure even on a rewind. She has dark circles under her eyes. Still don't see anything that would have told us what happened.

Also Maggie's talking about how the town would make a good base and it strikes me that her southern accent, done by a British actress, is way better than Beth's. Last week I noted that a lot of the time Beth has no trace of a southern accent and just drops the g's at the ends of words. You'd think as sisters they'd have similar accents.

Edited November 10, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[TexasChic]

I just noticed that Rosita looks a little like Abraham's dead wife. I wonder if that is intentional and if it will ever come up.

I thought that too. Funny, I forget these things until someone else mentions them.

Edited November 10, 2014 by TexasChic

[Watcher0363]

Agreed. That was the hand he held the can in when he was beating those guys. The fact that is doesn't heal is a reminder of the thing he's trying so desperately to forget.

Who is he suppose to be, Lancelot from Excalibur. "Rosita! It is the old wound, it does not heal!"

[Pete Martell]

Or they want Abraham to confess it to someone to form a bond and want that to be the first time its revealed.  Although probably not if TD is talking about it.  Not watching that this week.  I'd say it was in protest of having to watch the after show to understand what is going on but I just couldn't bring myself to watch a dissection of why this one bored me.

 

So next week is going to be week #4 that ends at the same point in time, I guess, and that with 3 episodes left.  At least I'm more interested in the characters involved next week; although this storytelling style didn't work for me last season and isn't working for me now.  Honestly Lost created a visceral hate for this approach to episodes..

 

The Talking Dead episode is probably one of the better ones I've seen. It's mostly entertaining and light, with some character details too.

 

I have mixed feelings about the episodes being so devoted to one story. I prefer this to split stories (I don't think they work as well), but I'm annoyed at how little we're seeing of Michonne. 

 

I just noticed that Rosita looks a little like Abraham's dead wife. I wonder if that is intentional and if it will ever come up.

 

I thought she looked like Tara, which made me do a double take.

[Madding crowd]

I don't care if they stick with the comics or not; I care that the story makes sense within the TV show, and that we are shown things during the episodes instead of having to get explanations from the Talking Dead or from people who have read the comics. The problem with doing things exactly like the comics, is that doesn't always translate well to TV. We should be able to figure things out without additional material.

[Nashville]

I think BROKENREMOTE was referring to how they didn't appear to have just been raped. There was no explanation for why he killed a bunch of people with his bare hands, which in turn scared them so bad that they left while he was sleeping.

 

ETA: sorry, not with his bare hands, with canned food.

 

With canned food in his bare hands - I think that covers all bases.

[SimoneS]

I have mixed feelings about the episodes being so devoted to one story. I prefer this to split stories (I don't think they work as well), but I'm annoyed at how little we're seeing of Michonne. 

 

I don't like the lack of Michonne so far either. We should also get more of Maggie. She lost her father and sister. She should be far more traumatized. 

 

I still don't get why they cannot have stories about all the three groups in each episode. Why do they have to devote the episode to one full group? Having Maggie wonder about Beth, while Daryl and Carol go after her would be far more powerful storytelling.

[English Teacher]

I stil think that Eugene is the love child of a bloated Elvis and Johnny Cash...but now I also think he is the dumber, more manipulative twin brother of John Nash from a beautiful mind.

Edited November 10, 2014 by English Teacher

[Pete Martell]

I don't like the lack of Michonne so far either. We should also get more of Maggie. She lost her father and sister. She should be far more traumatized. 

 

I still don't get why they cannot have stories about all the three groups in each episode. Why do they have to devote the episode to one full group? Having Maggie wonder about Beth, while Daryl and Carol go after her would be far more powerful storytelling.

 

I think with a full episode focus, you can build up to certain moments more - it's not impossible to have both (I think they did a good job of it last season with episodes like "Indifference" contrasting the desperate search for an antidote with Rick banishing Carol), but then I think of episodes last season like "Us" where I kept wanting more of Glenn and Maggie being reunited instead of having to cut away to Daryl and the Claimers. 

 

For now I don't mind the one-story format, but I really hope they'll make up for it later this season, and at the very least give characters like Michonne the same spotlight. Her solo episode material last season was one of its highlights. 

[Lyndy]

Funny. I appreciated the details about Abraham's family we got from TTD, but I didn't really need them. I just registered that, in an effort to protect his family, Abraham scared the shit out of them. And then they got eaten. He lost his will to live until Eugene gave him a mission. I don't feel like I need TTD to explain the show for me.

Abraham is uncorked though. He's a war vet, right? So I'm thinking there's a chance he had PTSD before the apocalypse. The whole family massacre probably didn't help his state of mind. My theory is that he's always been a walking powder keg.

[Nashville]

I was thinking that Eugene may be autistic or has asperger's. His speech pattern and the bluntness, it just seemed like he was super high functioning, but still possibly autistic. Or, the actor made weird choices. Not sure.

 

I liked this option - until Eugene came clean about his deception.  That was pure self-preservation and manipulation, not Asperger's.

 

After five seasons of all the violence and brutal killings the scariest thing ever on this show was having to be subjected to a sex scene between Rosita and Abraham!

 

Have to disagree.  Under the circumstances, I'd nail Rosita in a heartbeat as well.

[Turtle]

I liked this episode a lot more than I thought I was going to.  Even though I don't care about any of the people featured in this episode (not even Glenn and Maggie - don't hate me!), it kept my attention.  I had no idea what exactly had happened to Abraham's family, but I definitely got the sense that they had been or were scared of being terrorized by the other men, and then were scared further when Abraham brutally killed those men, and that is what made them run away.  At this point in the ZA / show, when I see a terrified woman and children with strangers nearby, I assume things weren't going well for woman & kids, and so it seemed clear to me that Abraham killed those guys because they were somehow a threat to his family.  Having the additional information and details is good, but I didn't need it for the story arc to make sense.  

 

When Abraham found his family and walked toward them and then looked down at his bloody hands, the look on his face said so much.  It was like he knew he had just horrified them, but he was also confused and scared .. I don't know how to explain it, but I thought the actor conveyed a lot with just that look.  

 

Oh, Eugene.  You're just as full of shit as we all suspected you were.  

[Texasmom1970]

Nashville don't get me wrong I think Rosita is pretty even covered in dirt and zombie goo. My issues was mostly with Abraham, eww, and Eugene watching, double eww.

[mightysparrow]

The thing that struck me the most about this episode is how little I cared. I didn't care about Abraham's family. Beating a man to death with your bare hands is very brutal, but I'd like to think that if my children and I were being brutalized, my partner would step in and handle things if I couldn't.  And I sure as hell wouldn't sail out into the middle of the ZA with my children and no means to protect us.  If she was trying to kill herself she should have considered that death by walker wouldn't be the best death form her children.  So I'm sorry she's dead but Abraham's wife seemed to damn stupid to live. And that hair!

 

I don't care about Eugene. I find it impossible to believe that NONE of the people he encountered saw through his complete bull. Judith was rolling her eyes at Eugene.  And if Abraham believed in him all this time then he was as stupid as his stupid dead wife.

 

I'm beginning to think that Maggie has got a stash of something tucked away. Because she's walking around with this moony grin on her face and it's not making any sense. I love Glenn so much and I was proud of how he conducted himself. But I didn't really care.

 

I'm worried because I watched the promo for next week's show and I didn't get that excited about it either. Part of that is I am waaaaay over my Carol quota for this decade. But I think TWD is curing me of my addiction to the show. Oh well.

[melanie]

I found it interesting that Tara actually encouraged Eugene to keep his destruction of the bus a secret.  After she was so proactive in being open and honest about her affiliation with the governor.  

[CletusMusashi]

I think if the walkers are now so flimsy that their skulls can be crushed by a fire hose, they'd be getting a lot slower and flimsier overall. We should be seeing things like their leg falling off when they try to walk. Or their jaw falling off when they try to bite through multiple layers of clothing.

Speaking of weapons, why is there so little use of anything between "gun" and "knife or fist?" YSB's hand would probably heal up just fine if he would carry a machete or something, instead of getting so close all the time and PUNCHING!

I give Rick a lot of crap for his dumb speeches and random decision processes, but apparently the writers are going to do that no matter what. That "We go forward, no matter what!" speech was the same exact nonsense.

"Hey, we need Abraham to make a Rick speech here." "So what's the problem? Just grab one out of the Rick jar."

Best part of the episode was by far the previews for next week. Daryl and Carol, kicking ass and taking lollipops.

Edited November 10, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Nashville]

I am left wondering a few things, one of which, what is the significance of Abraham's cut that keeps bleeding?

 

Pure metaphor.  Moobraham has wounds he has not let allowed to heal.

[CletusMusashi]

Yeah, I took it as a MacBeth schtick. Which would be fine. I like metaphors if they're well done, but if it's just a ploddingly bad scene and then suddenly "Hey, look, isn't this a literate reference?" No, not really. It's about on the same level as Fauxther Gabriel just randomly spending five minutes in a crucifix pose during a moronic synchronized swimming scene.

Hey, did anyone else wonder if the reason YSB was so excited about the fire truck was because it matched his hair?

[kia112]

I think if the walkers are now so flimsy that their skulls can be crushed by a fire hose, they'd be getting a lot slower and flimsier overall. We should be seeing things like their leg falling off when they try to walk. Or their jaw falling off when they try to bite through multiple layers of clothing.

 

Well, it's not like was a garden hose.  Firehoses were effective enough to knock out non-zombiefied black teenagers during the civl rights movement.  Not saying that these zombies should be getting slower and flimsier, but firehoses are pretty powerful.

[GaT]

Eugene isn't a scientist???????? Said no one ever. Unless you're on The Walking Dead.

[CletusMusashi]

Now that the "cure" gibberish is over, all we're left with of Eugene's plan is that he seriously thought Washington DC, of all places, would be the safest. WTF?

[bunnyblue]

 Once they left the store, Moobraham's family didn't make it much more than 50 yards before they became Zombie Chow.

 

Abraham's wife was a total idiot for taking her kids out of their shelter and away from their protector just because he went a little crazy on some rapists. Like you said, it didn't appear that she and the kids got very far from the store before they got eaten by walkers. How freakin' useless was she that they got overtaken shortly after leaving Abe? Good riddance, lady. Her mothering skills appeared to rival Lori's.

[morgankobi]

I also was getting a "damaged" vibe from Eugene. Perhaps Abraham's pummeling of his head will be like the old tv/movie amnesia cliché and the blows to his head will actual make him normal.

[thuganomics85]

Well, I did prefer this over last week's, but not by much.  I'm just not that invested in Abraham or Eugene, so I wasn't exactly chopping at the bits to get more of them.  I guess I did kind of like that they first met after Abraham just found his dead family, so it explained why Abraham was so desperate to believe Eugene, and why he was hurt when the truth came out.  But, I really wish we got a better sense with what happened with those guys he killed.  If it was just a regular disagreement and he snapped, it makes sense.  But, if those were some robbers or rapists, and he fought them off, then what his wife did was just dumb.  She would have rather taken her kids and gone out alone, without any protection?  Or was it just a suicide?  Either way, I felt bad for the kids, but no sympathy for the wife.

 

Color be surprised, but count me in the group that thought the highlights of this episode where Rostia and Tara.  They brought much needed humor at times (the cracks at Eugene's hair), became much more interesting.  Rostia, in particular, seemed to get more development here, then in her entire run so far.  I actually wouldn't mind seeing a back-story to how she got involved in the group.  Not how she got involved with Abraham though, because that's not necessary: when the only other option is Eugene, Abraham will usually win out, I suspect.

 

I always end up being proven wrong, but any time I see a bunch of Glenn/Maggie stuff, I keep thinking it's a set-up for one of those two to get taken out in the future.  Granted, I've been feeling that way since season three, so clearly my judgement shouldn't be trusted, but I still think it will happen some day.

 

Can't wait for next week though!  "The Daryl & Carol Show", hopefully featuring a lot of walker killing, sneaking around, awkward comments and jokes, and overall ass-kicking!

[Watcher0363]

Eugene isn't a scientist???????? Said no one ever. Unless you're on The Walking Dead.

No better example of the lack of STEM education in the US. Than believing Eugene's BS

[Emily Thrace]

I was surprised by how much I liked this. There were times I felt like the writers had been reading the forums and made sure to address everything: the mullet, why Abraham was so single minded about the 'mission', Abraham thanking Glen for coming, and when Glen said he made a deal, Abraham said, "You could have gone back on that, what was I going to do?" I liked the funny moments a lot too; Glen's quip about Abraham's TMI, Tara peeking at naked Rosita. I am left wondering a few things, one of which, what is the significance of Abraham's cut that keeps bleeding?

Yeah that's what makes me nervous about next week. Carol's attack on Terminus already felt like fanservice I'm worried about next week. Although if Daryl spend most of the episode talking about Beth or rejects Carol again I would laugh so hard. In the end though there's no way TPTB are going to going to hook up Carol and Daryl next week so it won't be too bad. As long as Carol doesn't moan or cry too much.

 

I liked Rosita in this episode that all I really got. I think Abraham could be an interesting character but that's more based on the actor than anything else.Like I said in the Carol thread Backstory doesn't make an interesting character but the outline of Abraham is interesting. He could be a Chief O'brien everyman good soldier type if they let him calm down a bit.

 

I'm going with Eugene being dead at this point so I'll just say he was semi-funny plot point.

 

I can't believe they made Maggie even blander than she already was last season. Its like the show has a women with agency quota they same way they do with black men,.

[Lakebum]

Address everything but Maggie's lack of concern for her sister's status.

Do we really know that Maggie's ot concerned, just because we've never seen her ask anyone if they know what happened? After all, we've never seen any of them go to the bathroom either, but I don't hear anyone talking about how unrealistic THAT is.

 

We see a fraction of the lives of these characters, spread out in 45-minute (or so) chunks 16 times per year, so I'm OK with knowing that we're not seeing everything they do, or hearing every conversation they have. Especially when the answer to this particular question is always going to be "I have no idea what did or did not happen to Beth." The only person who could possibly have a different answer is Darryl; maybe he and Maggie had the conversation off-camera, or maybe Darryl avoided the subject because he figured Maggie had been through enough already. The day she last saw Beth is also the day she saw her Dad get beheaded, probably not a day she likes re-living.

[bobbyjoe]

This episode felt very Season 2 Walking Dead to me: talky, talky, blah,blah,blah (Abraham's nighttime speech in the bookstore felt like vintage Season 2 Herschel-- "now, Rick, i'mma just gonna make a five minute speech saying really obvious things like I think I'm saying something folksy and profound"-- back before Herschel became a kickass character); backstory about a character (Abraham) that, sorry, I don't really care about and don't really need that backstory to understand;"surprise" revelations that have been telegraphed by the show for what feels like years. All of those things scream season 2, and I almost dropped the show in season 2.  Thank god it got much, much better.

 

I thought the gist of this current season was to get the band back together, but, instead, we're back to "now here's an episode about this bunch of people; now here's an episode about another bunch of people;now here's an episode about a single character; etc;etc;etc." 

 

Things were going so well there for awhile.  As someone says so well, above: c'mon show.

Edited November 10, 2014 by bobbyjoe

[natyxg]

I thought the gist of this current season was to get the band back together, but, instead, we're back to "now here's an episode about this bunch of people; now here's an episode about another bunch of people;now here's an episode about a single character; etc;etc;etc."

 

I think they have so many characters now that they can handle them better in smaller groups and that gives them the chance to explore different people. the problem with that, of course, is that if the episode is carried by characters you don't like a lot, well, it's gonna be a dud.

[Milaxx]

Do we really know that Maggie's ot concerned, just because we've never seen her ask anyone if they know what happened? After all, we've never seen any of them go to the bathroom either, but I don't hear anyone talking about how unrealistic THAT is.

 

That would be fine if we didn't have the first half of this season with Maggie being all, "I gotta find Glenn! It makes her not saying anything about Beth stand out all the more in contrast. Add to that her leaving with Abe without at least asking Rick & co to keep looking for Beth, again, it's odd. 

[niklj]

Is it just me or my television set? The scenes at night are SO hard to see. Even with all the lights off in the room. I wish there was a little back lighting going on, like moonlight.

What I noticed is that the same scenes when replayed on TTD are a LOT more visible, so I don't know what happens, if they add an extra layer of dark to the scene before broadcasting or what but it's getting really annoying.

[GreyBunny]

What distracted me was Glenn standing there with his mouth hanging open when Eugene made his confession.  Glenn was at the CDC, he met Jenner, he knew what went down.  His CDC amnesia is annoying.  

[LexiconDevilOne]

Almost forgot--I liked that Tara brought up finding bikes. It seems like they'd be better than walking if you're following a road. Even if you have a vehicle you could strap your bikes to it in case you break down. They'd be a ride to the next working vehicle. Besides which, those are going to be fewer and further between as time goes on. Bikes will still be around.

Thank you...It's pretty funny, since I wrote a post about this subject last week...

edited to write thoughts about this episode.

Seriously, Abraham's wife/kids...were raped by his group, one that he trusted, but they had no gun, or way to protect themselves during a zombie apocalypse...that is the very definition of red shirt. She took herself and her kids away from the one person who fought tooth and nail to protect them, only to get herself/kids slaughtered, makes no sense to me at all.

I'm so glad you all wrote about the episode being so damn dark, couldn't make out the zombie herd (I thought it was dead cattle myself, looked like farms), and had way too many commercials, and no Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Carol or anyone else I really care about...two weeks is far too long.

Well, it was better spending another week on a Beth centric episode...

[cheatincheetos]

I think there must have been a collective "duh" heard round the world. Apparently everyone but the people living in this 'verse figured out that Eugene was full of BS.

 

Yep. He always sounded like a cross between a teenager in trouble trying to keep a story straight and an unqualified politician trying to cover up his ignorance with a bunch of buzzwords.

 

My only complaint - can they please stop dying Abraham's hair??? It's so obvious and distracting.

I think they're using Koolaid after AMC warned them to stay under budget.

[GaT]

Seriously, Abraham's wife/kids...were raped by his group, one that he trusted, but they had no gun, or way to protect themselves during a zombie apocalypse...that is the very definition of red shirt. She took herself and her kids away from the one person who fought tooth and nail to protect them, only to get herself/kids slaughtered, makes no sense to me at all.

 

I thought they got eaten by walkers, wasn't that their bodies they showed right before he was going to kill himself?

[cheatincheetos]

I think it was the worst it's ever been tonight. I've never complained about it before, but tonight I kept telling my husband - "I can't see. What's going on?"

On the other hand, it was mercifully dim during the sex scene. Eugene was watching? With what, night vision goggles?

[CletusMusashi]

I think they're using Koolaid after AMC warned them to stay under budget.

That's also why they fired half of their lighting staff. it's getting so the show is like twenty minutes of television mixed with twenty minutes of radio play.

Maybe if they hadn't used every single candle they had during the Gareth arc...

[LexiconDevilOne]

I thought they got eaten by walkers, wasn't that their bodies they showed right before he was going to kill himself?

Yes... as in the 'slaughtered' part of my post, was it confusing? Sorry about that, if it was. I was making two different points.

My first was she was not armed (or had any way to protect herself and her family during a zombie apocalypse), and her family was attacked (raped, as per Talking Dead) by 'friends,' which is why Abraham killed them.

My second point was, then she ran off, afraid of Abraham (why? I have no idea. Being raped (which I've never been, so I don't have a real frame of reference)by friends would be more terrifying than my husband killing them from pure rage) would , and was slaughtered by walkers.

None of it made any sense to me.

Edited November 10, 2014 by LexiconDevilOne