Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[norcalgal]

17 hours ago, tribeca said:

Lumi little family ❤️
Allie is strange with her mom.  Know Sami can be a PIA but even when she just tried to be loving Allie moved away.  Kind of like a little kid who does not want a hug from her parents.  

Yes, I too had heart flutterings with the whole Lumi family in Allie's hospital room - Will, Ally, and Lumi...

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Lawrence Alamain?  Brandon Walker?  Sami's ex. Nicole's brother.  I'm liking it.  Phillip Kiriakis?  Just because.

Phillip is Allie's uncle.

[Katy M]

53 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Phillip is Allie's uncle.

I can not possibly be expected to remember all of Lucas' siblings:)  Or, maybe I was just trying to go really dark.

[Jewlmc]

I can't believe Ciara said "With friends like you who needs Homicidal maniacs??"

 

ROTFLMAO! !!! HAHAHAHA! 

 

Oh, Ciara. I guess you do.

[wurdalak]

5 hours ago, lb60 said:

Stefano could use another kid, huh?

Perhaps EJ gave Allie a birthday gift of a self-impregnation play set, a staple in any DiMera household obviously and indeed with most of Salem's tribes, and some of Stefano's... "essence" was still in it.

[Katy M]

33 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

Perhaps EJ gave Allie a birthday gift of a self-impregnation play set, a staple in any DiMera household obviously and indeed with most of Salem's tribes, and some of Stefano's... "essence" was still in it.

NOOOOO!!!!!!

[lb60]

1 hour ago, wurdalak said:

Perhaps EJ gave Allie a birthday gift of a self-impregnation play set, a staple in any DiMera household obviously and indeed with most of Salem's tribes, and some of Stefano's... "essence" was still in it.

And, I just lost my dinner. lol

[TenaciousWarrior]

18 hours ago, boes said:

I don't know if VK has any talent or not.  That may be because of the crap storyline she's been stuck in ever since Show decided to sacrifice this character on the altar of mind-numbing mediocrity called Ben Weston, or she just may be a rotten actor.

In any case, she sure stunk today, hulking around in that wedding dress like she was going to suddenly turn green, bulk up and go on Salem rampage like the Hulk.  If she's not screeching "Ben" at the top of her lungs, sneering at people who don't light candles to his image, she's smugging her way through another scene with whoever is on the receiving end of her contempt that day.   

Of course Claire didn't build any bomb, but that sort of coherency is apparently beyond the granddaughter Victor thinks so highly of that he's put in a position of authority at Titan.  After her unhinged, ugly rant, I'm hoping Claire takes a bomb making class ASAP and plans something really special for Ciara's next event.  

 

And who wants to bet that Claire doesn’t get an apology from either Ben or Ciara for acting like heinous, smug assholes.

[tribeca]

Poor Shaun.   When his wife and daughter found out he was in building that blew up neither asked if he was ok , 

[Rafael]

So Rafe gave Ciara away to the man who killed his half sister ? 

 

11 hours ago, Jewlmc said:

I can't believe Ciara said "With friends like you who needs Homicidal maniacs??"

 

ROTFLMAO! !!! HAHAHAHA! 

 

Oh, Ciara. I guess you do.

Epic fail on Ciara's part. 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Rafael

[Rafael]

14 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Yes, I too had heart flutterings with the whole Lumi family in Allie's hospital room - Will, Ally, and Lumi...

Reunite them right now and confirm that zombie EJ is a fraud and that Rolf was playing vicious mind games.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Rafael

[Pearson80]

On 7/25/2020 at 2:17 AM, Rafael said:

Ron is creative ? I dont think so . I Highly doubt the unaltered stories he wrote were groundbreaking .

Perhaps the suits can recognise what a whack writer he is and are trying to neutralise  his whack  ideas . Only G0d knows what they were.  

His vision? The guy has no shame plagiarising himself . And he plagiarises JER as well .  He aint got no vision . 

And he makes rubbish decisions like killing Bill Horton instead of finally letting Tommy Horton jr RIP ,A character who hasnt appeared since the early 1980s. The actor who played tommy died during the 1990s and the character is still inexplicably alive . You think the TIIC wrote this ? I doubt it . 

Lets not talk about the Diane Collville debacle and faux Rex Brady debacle and the groundbreaking story of Stefano now having 6 long lost kids .  Carlivati did all this . TIIC are at fault to a certain extent but its plainly obvious that the bulk of whack characterisations and storylines came straight outta his brain. 

I

 

I agree with you about Ron. I was not saying that Ron was creative or good but past writers have complained about too many cooks being in the kitchen regarding the writing of the show. Sherry Anderson, Hogan Sheffer, JER have all had conflicts with the suits at NBC regarding their stories for the show.  There are times that the suits need to be step in when there are issues but they are overbearing at Days and that stifles creativity.  Hogan Sheffer hated EJ and never intended Ejami to be the golden couple, it was always going to be Lumi, Johnny was supposed to be Lucas son, Nick was never meant to go crazy over Melanie, Abby was supposed to fall for Max Brady, Hogan never wanted him to date Stefanie and Chelsea, his nieces. Max/Abigail and Nick/Chelsea were supposed to be a foursome continuing the long tradition of Bradys dating Hortons and they had an interesting dynamic as a quartet. Abigail was so awesome at that time, she looked like her mom but was more like Jack..Sherry never wanted the possession storyline for Marlena, it caused her to leave the show and she never wanted to make John not be Roman. Ron is a hack but there are times that he does have good ideas but he needs a co-headwriter who is more grounded in character driven stories to temper his worst instincts.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Pearson80

[chediavolo]

My husband walked through the room as I was watching on Friday and said "look at the "boobs" on that girl! They are really out there. I have to agree, I don't know if they are fake or not or just young and firm enough to be pushed up so that they look like cantaloupes. I have to say I was never one for looking sexy, alluring, whatever in a wedding dress. At least not at the church. Respect in a place of worship, well that's what I was taught. I'm not young but I'm not old, I've been to weddings where the bride wore a little coverlet at the church and then took it off after the church. It just seems wrong to me to have your breasts out on display in a Catholic church. I sound like a frigid old fart. I assure you I am not in the least!

[Sandman]

On 7/25/2020 at 1:34 AM, boes said:

I don't know if VK has any talent or not.  That may be because of the crap storyline she's been stuck in ever since Show decided to sacrifice this character on the altar of mind-numbing mediocrity called Ben Weston, or she just may be a rotten actor.

I think there are some things Konefal handles well. In particular, I found the exchange with Hope about "if it were Daddy, you'd never give up" to be surprisingly moving and effectively played by both actresses (though I admit I'm sentimental when it comes to Bo and Hope). 

By contrast, I don't find Keegan all that interesting -- I don't think she's any better served by the writing, but if Claire's mental health is meant to seem ambiguous, she's not putting it over very well. ORK just indicates "bug-eyed crazypants" all. The. Time. (Also, Claire whines.) Sorry, but I don't understand all the praise heaped on her, nor the absolute vilification of Konefal.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sandman

[peachmangosteen]

For me, ORK can display some warmth and vulnerability while also being able to do OTT crazy, which I enjoy. VK laces every single thing she says and does in smugness and she is practically incapable of showing warmth imo and I just don't find her fun or interesting to watch. She used to be at times, but the Ben story line really just killed anything she had going for me. Now she just has that smugness in every scene.

[boes]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

I think there are some things Konefal handles well. In particular, I found the exchange with Hope about "if it were Daddy, you'd never give up" to be surprisingly moving and effectively played by both actresses (though I admit I'm sentimental when it comes to Bo and Hope). 

By contrast, I don't find Keegan all that interesting -- I don't think she's any better served by the writing, but if Claire's mental health is meant to seem ambiguous, she's not putting it over very well. ORK just indicates "bug-eyed crazypants" all. The. Time. (Also, Claire whines.) Sorry, but I don't understand all the praise heaped on her, nor the absolute vilification of Konefal.

I thought I made it clear.  Hmmmm..... That's an easy one for me.  As I said.  nothing VK has done has made me think she's any good but I'm not sure if it's the storylines she's been stuck with or her lack of ability.  In any case, I think she's intolerable to watch.  If people enjoy her, that's great.

I can't connect her to Bo, not even when the scenes and dialogue are extra sentimental.  This Ciara just seems like someone Bo would roll his eyes at and mutter "Oh Brother" under his breath while walking away.  And her serial killer taste in men.......no way Bo would ever have put up with that, IMO.   Caroline would never have put up with her crap.

Claire doesn't bother me and sometimes she charms me.

Edited July 26, 2020 by boes

[Retired at last]

I think VK does OK with the stories she has and I haven't been distracted by her smugness, because it can't compare to the smugness that CB (Gabi) exudes.

[TenaciousWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

I think VK does OK with the stories she has and I haven't been distracted by her smugness, because it can't compare to the smugness that CB (Gabi) exudes.

I agree that CB is the smuggest of them all. She makes Gabi so unlikeable.

[wurdalak]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:33 PM, DisneyBoy said:

To respond in reverse order (...)

Snipped to keep this to an overall reasonable length; refer to the original post for the points addressed below.

Notes on a selected few points:

- We all know that in a soap (or any show) with such a large cast, there is inevitable inequality amongst the characters; some are leads and get most of the extended storylines, others are supporting and will rarely get those longer plots and perhaps not even shorter ones.

- There is a rotation amongst characters and after an extensive story, they often get back-burnered for a while until their turn comes back around. The fact that one character is at one specific point in time not featured prominently is not necessarily significant.

- An "extensive" storyline is not synonymous with "compelling » or "substantial", both in conception or execution.

- Characters of every age, gender and ethnicity get their turn: Lani and Eli have been rather front and center for a while, Theo once was with his dyslexia and computer skills, Maggie had her moment to shine recently, Paul was omnipresent at one point, etc. Others are relegated to being mainly catalysts or background  for other people's story, like Abe, Victor or Ivan. It’s just the mechanics of a soap at work, so the alleged white privilege trend does not seem verified by the facts, to my eyes.

- Will is a not a well-chosen example and actually works against your thesis. He has had numerous storylines, from his coming out, to getting married and the ensuing infidelity, to being killed an then resurrected, to going to prison, etc.

- He and his husband are well integrated into Salem society and in their families, despite the occasional glitches.

- He and Sonny are presently engaged in an adoption storyline, presented approvingly, which would have been unthinkable on TV just a few years ago for a same-sex male couple.

- He is thus a substantial example of LGBT diversity through representation; so no straight privilege at work.

- Not only is the notion of "straight white privilege" much overused and abused in the public discourse these days, I am also loath to apply it to fictional characters, who have no agency in their actions and how their lives unfold. It might be more useful to replace it with the idea of blind spots on the part of the writers, which all authors display whatever their age, gender, demographics, ethnicity or sexuality. However, for reasons mentioned above, I would not find it verified on DOOL as systematically as you propose it is.

- One does not need to be a lawyer to understand the basics of the "innocent for reason of mental incompetence" legal concept as applied in most Western democracies and how those covered by it do not end up in prison. As for Ben, I did not follow his strangling spree with a strict attention to details so I can’t match your recollection, but assuming he showed cunning, determination and lack of remorse, that would fit with the psychology of many serial killers according to what I have read on the subject of such murderers, who are not as common as the serial-killer-of-the-week TV shows would have it. So it’s not really a stretch for the show to say he already was mentally ill, a condition he now manages with meds and therapy (how long will that last though?).

- In short, he could both have been mentally ill and display the behavior you describe.

- I remain impervious to Davidson’s skills at passion, lust and sundry emotions. I fully admit that other viewers find enjoyment in it.

- Most characters on DOOL do not have much character development or depth.

- A good deal of negativity or positivity against the various characters seems very personal, as if these people were real. It’s an approach I am ill-suited to address since I see all of them as purely fictional and no more than fodder for intellectual diversion as our exchanges on these boards.

- As for the "black gay serial killer" statement, it is such an out-of-left-field and arbitrary straw man’s argument that I can readily and whole-heartedly find it "fathomable" for me not to share in its conclusions. 

[DisneyBoy]

I appreciate your points, wurdalak, and the clarity with which you articulate them. I'm perhaps not presenting a well-structured thesis, as much as taking stock of what I see as inequalities in the way various characters are presented in the show.

6 hours ago, wurdalak said:

As for the "black gay serial killer" statement, it is such an out-of-left-field and arbitrary straw man’s argument that I can readily and whole-heartedly find it "fathomable" for me not to share in its conclusions. 

Let me put it this way - I don't think the producers know what to do with gay characters or black characters. They're there, some of the time, but they never really ring true.

No. Scratch that. They know what to do, and just choose not to do it.

When Will was first coming out, they actually permitted him to have other gay friends and have conversations about what being gay actually meant. For the last few years, if you didn't know Will was gay no one could blame you. He doesn't have any other gay friends or even talk about it much. So is there gay representation? Yes, but there's nothing especially authentic about it.

The same can be said for Eli and Lani. He was able to point out to Julie that sometimes she's racially insensitive, that one time, and other than that I have no idea what their lives are like as black people. They have no unique point of view by design. Ron seemed to briefly want to acknowledge that, by having JJ shoot Theo, touching on the real life events motivating the Black Lives Matter movement, but then the show pulled back and refused to allow the question of racism to even enter into the discussion (not that I'm suggesting JJ was racist, merely that the attempt to touch on BLM was a non-starter because of his involvement). As for Theo's autism being a storyline, it was only mentioned on maybe two or three occasions (he panicked at the DiMera mansion, and that was its one big moment of relevance). His computer skills were invented late in his character arc as a plot convenience. I agree that those two elements could have made him a very interesting character, but the show didn't develop them at all. Again, he's the token special needs character, but they won't do anything with that.

Both Eli and Abe married black women. That shouldn't be enough to indicate a pattern, but they're really the only two black male characters on the show to get married in the last couple of years, or at least since I've been watching. So it gives me pause. Interracial couples can't marry on Days?

Watching Ben, who can pretty much only be defined by the fact that he is a white straight murderer with a crazy family, be positioned as the show's lead...in spite of the fact that he has no charisma or compelling traits that could balance out what the writing has lacked, well that just rubs me the wrong way completely.

There's been a lot of talk about how producers behind the scenes are reluctant to put certain things at the forefront and it really shows. Consider: Ben killed Will, who was The poster child for the gay contingent in Salem. And now he's the lead. Think about that. Sure, Sonny and Paul remained after Will was offed, but it seemed like they were only there as a shield against accusations that homophobia motivated the decision to kill off Will. And that decision was supposed to be permanent. At the time Will was killed off, the producers said the character had run out of steam and served his purpose and that no other characters would come back from the dead including him. Sonny and Paul stood around occasionally smiling at one another and that was the extent of it afterwards. Some representation.

On a soap, where love scenes are expected and a part of the drama that's unfolding, this was very noticeable. "Look! We have a gay couple!" (But careful now, don't show them actually doing anything...yikes.) This is something I've seen repeated in a lot of people's coming out narratives. That families and communities can be accepting so long as their gay loved ones don't actually engage in any quote-unquote gay behaviours. There was actually an episode of Golden Girls about this when Blanche's gay brother brings home a fiance and Blanche, who had thought she'd accepted him, was confronted by the fact that she can only accept him if he acted in ways that kept his orientation and identity under wraps. Will and Sonny may "be gay" but if they weren't sitting on the opposite ends of the same sofa during most of their scenes, you could hardly tell they were a couple. They've been social distancing for years! Their lack of intimacy, and any specificity regarding their lives as gay people, puts the idea out there that the producers are very reluctant to develop that facet of who they are, aside from just sort of name dropping it. I recently read that Leo, a character I don't care for but a singular individual as the show's only gay male villain ever, was supposed to have a much longer arc except it was ultimately cut short by producers who found him "too gay".

You are quite right that the writing often isn't very deep and Ben is no exception. He is basically only defined purely by being a straight, white male and a formerly crazed murderer with a crazy family. But he's been promoted to the lead of the show somehow. He was brought back, seemingly guaranteed a full-time job in spite of the fact that he had already been written into the ground and had zero charisma, and given a big, expensive, pre-Olympics cliffhanger wedding, while other characters who are more likeable and had longer histories on the show were giving much smaller ceremonies. You can't really convince me that that isn't due to white straight privilege. This show features a largely white straight cast because that's all the producers seem to have confidence in that the audience will accept, or that's all they're interested in promoting. There are minority characters here and there, but I can't imagine any of them doing stuff as heinous as Ben did and then getting this kind of high-profile position within the show immediately after.

Somehow, in spite of murdering women and the show's token gay character, Ben is still viewed as marketable and beautiful and likeable. To what do we attribute that? That he's in shape, white and straight. There's pretty much nothing else to go on!

...and what's worse, it actually seems to be working. There are fans of the character who think he's a great find and someone whose adventures they're interested in following. I am not. I'm grateful that this is an ensemble show so I don't have to completely turn it off entirely, but the producers are happy to turn this into the Ben and Ciara show, just as they had previously turned it into the Abigail show. It would be very refreshing to me if it suddenly turned into the Eli show, and we got the chance to get sick of him and his perspective, or the Will show, giving us a chance to get tired of his perspective too. Instead it's always the same perspective: pretty rich white kids with problems, to quote Mad TV. It's sad to think that all these years later, after so much progress has been made even on this show, at the end of the day it always defaults the status quo. It doesn't matter who the best actors are, or which characters could be the most refreshing for the audience to spend time with, or who might have the most unique life experiences. Any white straight person can take the spotlight, even one who murdered people.

Anyway, I think I've more than voiced my opinion on this so I'll leave things there.

Edited July 27, 2020 by DisneyBoy

[MsTree]

6 hours ago, wurdalak said:

A good deal of negativity or positivity against the various characters seems very personal, as if these people were real. It’s an approach I am ill-suited to address since I see all of them as purely fictional and no more than fodder for intellectual diversion as our exchanges on these boards.

Thank you! I couldn't agree more with all that you've articulated. It's really a shame when some folks decide to "hate" a fictional character so much...that they wish the actor ill harm or worse.

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I think VK does OK with the stories she has and I haven't been distracted by her smugness, because it can't compare to the smugness that CB (Gabi) exudes.

But Gabi is the show's "bad girl" of her generation.  Smug isn't necessarily out of place in her portrayal.  She can be punchable and the writing often does just that-both figuratively and literally.

CIara is supposed to be this show's good girl heroine.  She should not be as punchable as often as she is and have it basically go unchecked. 

13 hours ago, Sandman said:

 I don't think she's any better served by the writing, but if Claire's mental health is meant to seem ambiguous, she's not putting it over very well. ORK just indicates "bug-eyed crazypants" all. The. Time.

I think the question isn't whether or not she's still fragile.  She clearly is.  And I think she is trying to force things back to normal faster than probably should happen.  But she got out of Bayview not because she was 100% healthy but rather because her doctors felt she wasn't a threat to herself or others. 

9 hours ago, wurdalak said:

One does not need to be a lawyer to understand the basics of the "innocent for reason of mental incompetence" legal concept as applied in most Western democracies and how those covered by it do not end up in prison.

I think people get it.  They just think it's unrealistic and hard to swallow. In theory, every serial killer is off his or her rocker.  And being insane isn't the get out of jail card it's sometimes portrayed as.  Ben covering his tracts indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and illegal.  So he can be a sociopath, psycho, have bipolar disorder---whatever but in spite of whatever mental illness he was suffering from, he still understood the concept of right and wrong. 

3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

The same can be said for Eli and Lani. He was able to point out to Julie that sometimes she's racially insensitive, that one time, and other than that I have no idea what their lives are like as black people.

Your whole post was terrific. I do think there's work to do on DOOL that they were the first African American couple to get an on screen wedding in 54 years on DOOL. Unless there's an interracial wedding that I'm not remembering, does that mean it's the first time an African-American character had an on screen wedding in the 54 years of DOOL period?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Rafael]

39 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

But Gabi is the show's "bad girl" of her generation.  Smug isn't necessarily out of place in her portrayal.  She can be punchable and the writing often does just that-both figuratively and literally.

CIara is supposed to be this show's good girl heroine.  She should not be as punchable as often as she is and have it basically go unchecked. 

I think the question isn't whether or not she's still fragile.  She clearly is.  And I think she is trying to force things back to normal faster than probably should happen.  But she got out of Bayview not because she was 100% healthy but rather because her doctors felt she wasn't a threat to herself or others. 

I think people get it.  They just think it's unrealistic and hard to swallow. In theory, every serial killer is off his or her rocker.  And being insane isn't the get out of jail card it's sometimes portrayed as.  Ben covering his tracts indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and illegal.  So he can be a sociopath, psycho, have bipolar disorder---whatever but in spite of whatever mental illness he was suffering from, he was still understood the concept of right and wrong. Or did he argue a temporary insanity that lasted for months from his first kill to getting caught?

Your whole post was terrific. I do think there's work to do on DOOL that they were the first African American couple to get an on screen wedding in 54 years on DOOL. Unless there's an interracial wedding that I'm not remembering, does that mean it's the first time an African-American character had an on screen wedding in the 54 years of DOOL period?

I recall Nick Fallon ,while he was in a delirious state , marrying a black woman named Cassandra Arvin in a quick Las Vegas wedding . This was during the "Touch the sky " arline storyline which involved Max,Jeremy Horton ,Jett Carver ,Chelsea and Stephanie  .

  IIRC , Casandra supposedly had 2 sons named Artemis and Demarquette and after she got arrested for supposedly soliciting ,she left the boys in Nick's custody and it turned out they werent her boys and that she was protecting them from their bio parents enemies . The parentswere rich businessmen in  some country in the carribean and  the kids were her sister's or something like that . The sister was married to this super rich businessman .and the parents ,while seeking assylum in the US arranged for Casandra to take them in illegally orfcourse  in order to keep them safe from their enemies while they sort out their assylum problems.

Anyway ,the enemies tracked down the kids and sent a goons to get the boys at Nick's place and Jeremy Horton rescued Nick  and the kids and the kids were eventually reunited with their bio parents.  

Pity , wonder why Nick didnt ask for their help in order to get back on his feet after being released from jail .

Anyway,That was the only time iv seen an interracial marriege on the show . 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Rafael

[Door County Cherry]

Everyone knows they're watching a fictional show and actors aren't their characters. And fans who like a character aren't misguided if they see more in a character than others do.

It's perfectly valid to watch the show with or without an eye on greater social implications, for pure fun or even just to memorize the actors to see who returns to set having lost weight during the break and who has gained it.  (That has been the most interesting thing with B&B coming back, for reelz.) Or for even all of the above. 

Snark about characters,  actors or stories but let's move on from the snark aimed towards fanbases or how other people watch the show.  

[Sandman]

Maybe smugness is like chemistry, and it's perceptible subjectively? I'm not as sensitive to it from Konefal, I guess.

19 hours ago, boes said:

And her serial killer taste in men.......no way Bo would ever have put up with that, IMO.   Caroline would never have put up with her crap.

No argument on any of the above from me! The show's way of "dealing" with Ben is ruinous on several levels, IMO.

[DisneyBoy]

Not a bad episode today. It was very nice to have a breather from Ciara and Ben and still move the story forward. I definitely agree that Olivia has been overplaying the crazy card considering Claire is innocent. It makes me wonder if she even knew from one script to the next how things were going to work out. I guess we'll have to wait for an explanation on the wedding dress and engagement ring. It was nice to see her with Sami, Belle and Shawn all in one room together. I don't think we've ever seen that. More family scenes please!

I'd like to be happy for Will and Sonny, but we all know they're just babysitting this kid until the show decides Allie wants him/her back. I thought if they were going to move ahead with a storyline about a gay couple adopting a child, it would be a real adoption. This doesn't feel like one, to me anyway.

I think Alison Sweeney is doing a good job in her scenes trying not to apply pressure to her daughter and masking her discomfort. You can feel Sami cringing and then pulling back and trying to relax and trying to control the expression on her face and speak in a reassuring voice. Good acting. I'm in complete agreement with her that this baby could easily be raised within the family without being adopted by anyone, but then there would be no story. I'm getting the impression that we're supposed to be uncomfortable with her being manipulative, but her daughter is being so stupid I honestly don't have any issues with her begging Rafe to back off. It's like Sami also realizes Allie is going to eventually want the kid back one day, so it will be less traumatic for the child to be transferred within the family than to have to take it away from Rafe someday. She's not wrong.

I didn't mind the scenes between Justin, Steve and Kayla, but it really bothered me the way they had Kayla and Steve describing their trip for the benefit of the audience at the start of the episode. There's absolutely no thrill to be had on our part as viewers hearing how beautiful Lake Louise looked. If you can't afford them to film there, why are you telling us about it? It just makes us sad.

Bonnie should be fun, but nothing about her return so far has made any sense. She should absolutely be in trouble with the law, or at least charged with rape considering she's a confessed to it and written a book about it. Where is Lucas even living right now? I know we've seen that headboard a hundred times, but I was super confused about where he was supposedly staying and how she got in. It's nice to see Judi again of course, but this doesn't feel like it's going anywhere.

I just stumbled upon this hilarious picture online from back when Stefan and Gabi got married. It made me smile so I'll share it here with you guys in case you haven't seen it... I think it captures the couple and their storylines perfectly LOL

Edited July 27, 2020 by DisneyBoy

[boes]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

Maybe smugness is like chemistry, and it's perceptible subjectively? I'm not as sensitive to it from Konefal, I guess.

No argument on any of the above from me! The show's way of "dealing" with Ben is ruinous on several levels, IMO.

I think you're right.  VK doesn't work for me, but, for example,  while I understand how people can dislike Gabi so much, I don't feel the same way about her.

Maybe I got bit by a smug bug when I was little and I'm extra-sensitive?  I'm going to blame it all on allergies.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

Maybe smugness is like chemistry, and it's perceptible subjectively? I'm not as sensitive to it from Konefal, I guess.

Very possible but I also think the writing doesn't serve her well either in that it puts her in the Ben cheerleader position which often means she's arguing against people who have good reasons not to like or trust him and acting like he's the only one who could possibly be redeemed.   There are things she could do if she were a more nuanced actress but I'd say it's 50/50 right now between acting choices and writing.

DOOL got preempted here so I'll have to check out the show On Demand later.

[RunningMarket]

So now Rafe cares about bias in the Salem PD? That was the best laugh I've had all day. Glad they cleared Claire quickly. I was anticipating that dragging on for much, much longer.

[Silver Raven]

Belle should stick around.  Salem needs a decent lawyer (looking at you, Justin)

Ew, Bonnie, you're gross.

Roman always takes the day off, that's nothing new.

 

[wurdalak]

5 hours ago, Sandman said:

Maybe smugness is like chemistry, and it's perceptible subjectively? I'm not as sensitive to it from Konefal, I guess.

In the case of Ben and Ciara, I think the perception of "smugness" comes from the fact that they are written and performed as expressing their opinion that Claire was responsible for the little acts of sabotage extremely firmly. As I have said before, if I were faced with a similar set of circumstancial evidence in real life, I probably would come to the same conclusion (not including the bomb however, which is way above Claire's level of knowledge and skills), but I might not be as forceful and aggressive in expressing it. Add to that the fact that as you point out in an earlier post, she comes across as "bug-eyed crazypants", with no ambiguity at all.

So Belle wanted to flee the country with her daughter before learning that Claire had been cleared. To a country which has an extradition agreement with the US (at least until recent current events which are outside the reality of DOOL). Quite the legal eagle! And all that for fear of some press attention and on the advice of Supreme Court material Sami. Careful Justin, your status as Salem's least successful lawyer may be in jeopardy.

On 7/25/2020 at 8:31 PM, TenaciousWarrior said:

And who wants to bet that Claire doesn’t get an apology from either Ben or Ciara for acting like heinous, smug assholes.

Although I do not agree with your description of them, I think that an apology from Ben and Ciara would be in order if they do appear in a scene with Claire after this whole mess is cleared up, because that is what people do when they misjudge a friend. No need for them to grovel because the facts were pointing to Claire. But there is not guarantee that such a scene will be written, or that it will survive the script editing phase and then find its way into the final cut.

The way Bonnie is being used is confusing to me. Is she supposed to come across as fun and attractive enough to entice Lucas, or perhaps eventually Justin? Her actions are very stalkerish instead and include breaking and entering Lucas' bedroom while he is sleeping; he obviously is stayng somewhere – the Salem Inn? – anyone can enter at will, much like the Kiriakis and DiMera mansions, or Marlena's and John's building.

Edited July 27, 2020 by wurdalak

[peachmangosteen]

11 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

In the case of Ben and Ciara, I think the perception of "smugness" comes from the fact that they are written and performed as expressing their opinion that Claire was responsible for the little acts of sabotage extremely firmly.

Nah, they were smug way before that!

Quote

The way Bonnie is being used is confusing to me. Is she supposed to come across as fun and attrative enough to entice Lucas, or perhaps eventually Justin? Her actions are very stalkerish instead and include breaking and entering Lucas' bedroom while he is sleeping;

Ben, a serial killer, is the show's hero, so obviously they don't really care about stuff like this.

Today was preempted for me. We'll see tomorrow morning whether or not they air it over night and also whether or not I care to watch it if they do lol.

[CanaryFan98]

Yep this show would rather want us to root for the likes of Ben, Bonnie etc who are pretty awful(although I feel like Ben has more self awareness here) and don't have many redeemable qualities yet you have normal characters in Shawn Douglas, Lucas etc that aren't considered interesting enough to write for and not rootable in comparison go figure.

Soaps like Days wonder why people tune out....

[wurdalak]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Nah, they were smug way before that!

I did not see it even back then, and not even in retrospect. But I will keep trying.  😉

Edited July 27, 2020 by wurdalak

[hypnotoad]

Quote

On a soap, where love scenes are expected and a part of the drama that's unfolding, this was very noticeable. "Look! We have a gay couple!" (But careful now, don't show them actually doing anything...yikes.) This is something I've seen repeated in a lot of people's coming out narratives. That families and communities can be accepting so long as their gay loved ones don't actually engage in any quote-unquote gay behaviours.

This. I remember on Guiding Light when Olivia fell in love with Natalia - they weren't even allowed to kiss! P&G, CBS and GL were all a ok with a scene implying Olivia was engaging in a threesome with 2 dudes before her heart surgery. But later a kiss with the woman she loves? Not a chance. It was infuriating. And I agree if someone tuned into this show knowing nothing about it, they'd be more likely to think Will and Sonny are friends rather than married to each other.

Quote

because it can't compare to the smugness that CB (Gabi) exudes.

But isn't Gabi allegedly the 'bad girl' in Salem? I think smug is kind of a requirement isn't it? Ciara is supposed to be the good girl and ummm ... no.

Quote

So now Rafe cares about bias in the Salem PD? That was the best laugh I've had all day. Glad they cleared Claire quickly. I was anticipating that dragging on for much, much longer.

I thought the entire basis of the Salem PD was bias! That made me laugh too. I was also pleased Claire was cleared so quickly. I guess I can hold my breath on her getting an apology from Ciara or the serial killer once he's saved.

[kitmerlot1213]

While I liked seeing Belle in lawyer mode protecting her daughter, I really appreciated that Sami showed up to offer her support and she didn't once doubt Claire's innocence.  I also liked that Shawn was so adamant that Claire wasn't guilty--the Brady family rallied around one of their own--fabulous 🙂

 

[wurdalak]

32 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

if someone tuned into this show knowing nothing about it, they'd be more likely to think Will and Sonny are friends rather than married to each other.

l hope that hypothetical viewer did not turn in today because he would think these are two male "friends" who kiss on the mouth. Not a frequent practice in the US.

This adoption plot is rich in potential drama for the writers: Allie finding out Sami pressured Rafe, then learning that she had told Will about it and he said nothing (or was interrupted as he was about to), and then in the longer therm (if they last that long) Sami's meddling because that child will be more precious to her than Ari since her own daughter will have carried it in her body instead of producing it through a drunken one-night stand as Will did. And of course the moment Auntie Allie starts getting confused as to her role with the child, her biological but not legal offspring.

How high are the probabilities they would make a mess of every one of these?

Edited July 28, 2020 by wurdalak

[TenaciousWarrior]

Really enjoyed the Sami/Belle scenes today. Also loved the family rallying around Claire. Very heartwarming show!

[Frozendiva]

A dull ep today. Again, Mondays suck because of three hours of 90 Day Fiance.

Of course Claire was innocent. Unless she has a certificate in bomb making and explosions, she isn't capable of doing so. At least there was some CCTV of the Salem Park. Absconding to Hong Kong would make her look guilty. Would be interesting to see what Clyde's wedding present actually is.

Hope Patch and Kayla enjoyed a nice trip to Canada. Too bad they didn't have a photo of Lake Louise on their phones or anything. Felt bad that Justin moved out.

Will, don't get too excited about Allie's baby just yet. There is still a lot to be done in terms of adoption in that the father would have to sign his legal rights away. Chances are he will show up at some point. And no, your mom working to get Rafe to drop the idea of adopting is wrong. Yeah, Rafe wouldn't be the best parent and neither are you and Sonny, Will. A stranger would be better.

Bonnie showing up in Lucas' room was gross.

[Pearson80]

1 hour ago, TenaciousWarrior said:

Really enjoyed the Sami/Belle scenes today. Also loved the family rallying around Claire. Very heartwarming show!

They were my favorite scenes of the day... I have always enjoyed the Sami/Belle bond and the Eric/Brady bond when the Brady twins just adored their baby siblings before they were sorased despite their respective beefs with Jarlena..

50 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

Bonnie showing up in Lucas' room was gross.

She is just disgusting and it is a shame that Adrienne who still had stories left to tell via her sons was sacrifice for her. Ron is just a hack..

52 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

Will, don't get too excited about Allie's baby just yet. There is still a lot to be done in terms of adoption in that the father would have to sign his legal rights away. Chances are he will show up at some point. And no, your mom working to get Rafe to drop the idea of adopting is wrong. Yeah, Rafe wouldn't be the best parent and neither are you and Sonny, Will. A stranger would be better.

 

The show treats Allie's baby like it is an item at an auction with everybody putting up their bid, the baby is a human being.. I have no problems with Sami fighting to not have her grandchild not be put up for adoption.. Are her methods unorthodox? of course this is Sami, Allie seems to be doing this to spite Sami. I suspect if Sami wanted her to put the baby up for adoption she would have wanted to keep the baby. I just cannot stand Allie, Ron just fucks everything up..

6 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Yep this show would rather want us to root for the likes of Ben, Bonnie etc who are pretty awful(although I feel like Ben has more self awareness here) and don't have many redeemable qualities yet you have normal characters in Shawn Douglas, Lucas etc that aren't considered interesting enough to write for and not rootable in comparison go figure.

Soaps like Days wonder why people tune out....

I love your post because it is so true and that trend started years ago and I believe this is what has caused the genre to collapse.. 

[CanaryFan98]

Yep when you take away the moral compass of a soap the dramatic impact of the soap goes with it.  What's the point in a character being good when a bad character is rewarded for doing the complete opposite?

Yes this soap had Jack but the show never forgot what he did to Kayla, their relationship will never be "great" and while it was a different era nobody was considered terrible for hating Jack back then.

FF to today where you have Ciara blindly defend Ben all the time despite killing 3 women and her cousin Will not to mention almost killing her other cousin Abby.

I could've accepted Ben/Ciara if they were written to be the dark angsty couple they were supposed to be with her family being horrified in the process. Not this hearts and flowers crap they want to sell us acting like him being an SK is just something fans need to get over. 

They take it too far with these characters treating rape and murder like its no big deal and only act like its a big deal when its a character the show doesn't want us to like.

[Rafael]

Hold up . Didnt Bonnie rape Lucas before ?

I mean Lucas was completely drunk and didn't know it wasn't Adrienne. And yet Ron is equating the rape of a male character to "passionate sex " . What the hell? 

[Sandman]

It's too bad Rafe doesn't get more time with the Salem brain. He can be a compassionate and big-hearted person (though the comment upthread about how he's only now noticing that conflict of interest is a thing is very apt).

I don't understand SamI's motives at all: why does she want Will to raise Allie's baby so badly, but for reasons she can't possibly discuss rationally with her daughter? Why did she encourage her sister to flee the country? Is it just that Sami has to have a scheme or an angle, because otherwise she has no character at all, and the writers don't know what to do with her?

And is it just me, or have most of Sonny's lines felt like filler for a while? Since Will got out of prison, anyway, he hasn't really had much story. He's either running exposition, or  feeding Will lines for his response in discussing whatever story of the day they're marginally involved in. Even Sonny's declarations about his occasional emotional responses seem more like a summary than actual experience. I mean, Sonny doesn't have a job or friends (even though he's related to half the town) or any interests beyond the gates of the Kiriakis pile, so I can't be too surprised, but would it kill these writers to give him a point of view? Being grateful to Allie was as much life as he'd had in months.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Sandman

[SueB]

Go Claire!  I'm glad she set the record straight -- she LEFT the condo and went to the park.  But on what basis was she 'exonerated'?  I feel like we skipped a step.  Like finding out someone saw her in the park and so she has an alibi.  Maybe we'll get more data today.

And Sami's advice to skip town was not good.  That's NOT what normal people do Sami.  You stand and face the charges.  I like that Claire objected to being turned into a fugitive.

Allie -- the baby is not a 'prize'.  I'm not comfortable with your decision making skills.  Talk to Uncle Eric first. He's good on this stuff.

Shawn is still the MVP.  I wish he was around more.

 

[wurdalak]

10 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Yep when you take away the moral compass of a soap the dramatic impact of the soap goes with it.

Wasn't that started a long time ago by GH with the rape of Laura by Luke turning into the most romantic and grandiose love story ever?

11 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Of course Claire was innocent. Unless she has a certificate in bomb making and explosions, she isn't capable of doing so. At least there was some CCTV of the Salem Park. Absconding to Hong Kong would make her look guilty.

 

30 minutes ago, SueB said:

And Sami's advice to skip town was not good.  That's NOT what normal people do Sami.  You stand and face the charges.  I like that Claire objected to being turned into a fugitive.

Belle's legal brains went on a quick holiday when she agreed to that scheme. Perhaps she should stick around in Salem and join Justin to found a new firm  with the slogan "We provide the worst legal advice possible so you can be guaranteed to lose your case".

As for the adoption plotline, I could have included two more twists to my list of ideas that writers could pursue: first, and most obviously, the father will resurface and assert his legal rights, or some other relative could challenge Allie's decision in court, for example Lucas acting on Bonnie's bad advice.

 

 

[Frozendiva]

Claire should still be a person of interest. Maybe she was at the park. Someone else could have hooked up the bomb.

[Sandman]

14 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

As for the adoption plotline, I could have included two more twists to my list of ideas that writers could pursue: first, and most obviously, the father will resurface and assert his legal rights, or some other relative could challenge Allie's decision in court, for example Lucas acting on Bonnie's bad advice.

I fully expect the father to surface and make a claim on the baby, even if (or maybe especially since) this plot was just executed with Rafe and David. (Crazy idea: what if the father were one of Sonny's brothers? -- but I forget how much older Alex and Joey are than he.)

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I fully expect the father to surface and make a claim on the baby, even if (or maybe especially since) this plot was just executed with Rafe and David. (Crazy idea: what if the father were one of Sonny's brothers? -- but I forget how much older Alex and Joey are than he.)

I think they were still less than a year old when Adrienne was pregnant with Sonny.  But, that doesn't mean anything in soap time.  They could be younger than him by now.

[wurdalak]

1 hour ago, Frozendiva said:

Claire should still be a person of interest. Maybe she was at the park. Someone else could have hooked up the bomb.

That's the Salem PD for you; quick to jump to a conclusion, either of someone's guilt – and then consider them the only possible suspect – or of their innocence as is the case here with Claire. Methodical and exhaustive methods of police investigation be damned!

The fact she was not in a position to plant the bomb herself does not mean she could not have subcontracted the job to someone with the required technical expertise and the opportutnity to covertly enter the church beforehand, to carefully plant the bomb at the best spot and to wire it correctly, so they should still be looking at her.

But as written and performed, I doubt she would have the brains for that so it's probably a good thing that she is excluded from the list of potential suspects so the cops can concentrate on more plausible lines of investigation.

[kitmerlot1213]

I missed the very beginning of the show so I didn't see if Ciara had a reaction to there being proof that Claire didn't set the bomb--I look forward to both her and Ben having to admit they were wrong--I did however get to see the frankly ridiculous scene of Ciara insisting she knows how to interrogate people because both of her parents were cops--WTF?!  And if how she talked to Clyde was any evidence of her "skills" then Mrs. Weston needs to sit her ass down and let the actual professionals do their thing.

And I know I rolled my eyes when Ciara was trying to act tough while wearing an oversized hoodie--shrugging your shoulders so your jacket doesn't fall of while trying to intimidate Clyde is not a good look.  I know we've been talking about whether or not VK exudes smugness but today's episode exemplified everything I dislike about the character--her sense of entitlement, how only she knows everything and can get the answers and nobody understands her suffering--and the actress doesn't help matters by not bringing any sense of warmth to her scenes.  KM's Abby and SS's Lani have that same problem, they are blackholes of charm or likeability where as CB's Gabi, AZ's Nicole and ORK's Claire can play their characters with deviousness but they're also capable of showing kindness and compassion.

Who didn't enjoy seeing Ben tied to a chair and freaking out?  Sucks to be a supposedly reformed serial killer doesn't it? 🙂