S04.E06: Family Business

[Blue Plastic]

Belle's father's hat looked like it was made out of pleather.  That whole flashback thing with Belle, the ogres and Anna was just so ugh.  Did not want.  It was mostly Belle's fault, though.  The way they write her and the way de Ravin portrays her just make her insufferable.  This "Belle" is totally unrecognizable from the Disney movie version.

 

Belle is such an idiot there are just no words.  That mirror was actually telling her the friggin' truth and she just ignores it, even though Rumpel was clearly disobeying her "orders," something he shouldn't be able to do if the dagger were real.  Although I suppose we're gonna get some kind of revelation that Rumpel switched the daggers again and it was the real one and his disobedience didn't count or something.  Whatever!

 

Can someone just punch Robin in the face?  He's such a douche.  Why doesn't Regina take out all her angst on HIM instead of against the Charmings et al?

[Souris]

A resounding Meh.

 

There were some weird technical issues in this ep. WTF was up with the shaky camera? I almost got motion sickness in the DQ/Anna scene in the jail. And there were odd edits and camera angles throughout.

 

So Anna & Belle had to climb a mountain to get to the rock trolls in this ep, but Anna (in a wedding dress & carrying a book!) & Elsa were able to saunter there in the opener? I suppose Elsa could have magicked them there, but I side eye it.

 

Way to waste Frances O'Connor.

 

I liked the trio of Emma, Hook & Elsa figuring things out at the end.

 

Obviously DQ planted the stuff for Emma to find.

 

Shut up, Robin.

 

And that's about all I feel like commenting on. I really do think the last ep broke me.

[stealinghome]

Can someone just punch Robin in the face?  He's such a douche.  Why doesn't Regina take out all her angst on HIM instead of against the Charmings et al?

Because Regina has spent her life blaming all the wrong people for her problems. Why would she stop now?

 

But also, Regina is totally the type of woman who, if her significant other cheated on her, would totally go after the person her partner cheated with and blame him/her for "enchanting" or "stealing" her partner...instead of taking issue with her partner, who would be the person most at fault.

 

So Anna & Belle had to climb a mountain to get to the rock trolls in this ep, but Anna (in a wedding dress & carrying a book!) & Elsa were able to saunter there in the opener? I suppose Elsa could have magicked them there, but I side eye it.

Souris, you're not the only one. I turned to my friend who I watch with and said "Um, I don't remember Elsa and Anna climbing a mountain when they saw the rock trolls earlier" and she was like "yeah, me neither." I side-eye it as well.

[KingOfHearts]

 

But also, Regina is totally the type of woman who, if her significant other cheated on her, would totally go after the person her partner cheated with and blame him/her for "enchanting" or "stealing" her partner...instead of taking issue with her partner, who would be the person most at fault.

 

She did sort of do that in 4x01 when she attempted to kill Marian. She has since realized that Robin nor Marian's demise is required for her "happy ending". Regina's still a raging psycho, no doubt about that, but it's moments like tonight that pleasantly surprise me. I'm still a fan of her at heart, so please bear with my over-optimism. :)

 

 

So Anna & Belle had to climb a mountain to get to the rock trolls in this ep, but Anna (in a wedding dress & carrying a book!) & Elsa were able to saunter there in the opener? I suppose Elsa could have magicked them there, but I side eye it.

That random hazard for the sake of the plot is sure random!

Edited November 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

I think Elsa probably magicked up some sort of ice stairs when they visited the trolls like she did for Kristoff in 4.03, 

[Shanna Marie]

I'm thinking that having the mirror tell the unvarnished truth to Belle was not the way to demonstrate that the Snow Queen had a terrible mirror that could do terrible things.

Yeah, Mirror Belle was a lot smarter than ordinary Belle. Too bad Belle disregarded all of it.

 

What I didn't get was this whole quest traveling across the sea to another land to use magic to get back memories of a trauma. You go through something like that and get injured, and you expect things to be a little blurry. Though I guess her dad wasn't much better, since he withheld the truth for Reasons. Wouldn't it have been more comforting to know that her mother's death wasn't in vain because at least it saved her? She had survivor's guilt going on anyway just for having lived when her mother didn't. Giving her answers might have given her some peace. And then once she got the magical quest object for which she'd traveled all that way, has she heard of purses or pockets or otherwise keeping it secure instead of just carrying it around?

 

Snow and Charming saw the tape of Emma!! Squee!!!

And it was sweet that Snow was so distracted by the fact that she was seeing her daughter at a younger age that she barely noticed or cared about the plot-related stuff.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised at how well Regina is handling Robin. I actually agree with her...

I know, frightening, huh? I said this in the spoiler thread when they gave a script tease of this scene, but this whole thing just makes me burn with rage because I know this guy. I've met this guy -- the jerk who breaks up for honorable-sounding reasons (usually to go back to an ex), but then keeps the woman he broke up with strung along by constantly going back to her to complain about the woman he's now with or talk about how much he really still loves her. You just want to give him a good smack upside the head and tell him he's not doing anyone any favors. I kind of want Regina to have the sudden realization that losing him was her happy ending, and she owes Emma for saving her from that drip. Because seriously, dude, what a jerk.

 

"Magic always comes with a price." Well, sometimes. Not really if you're a villain and/or Creator's Pet.

"Magic always comes with a price" needs to be in this show's drinking game. It's rather laughable when in the same episode where the good guys are warned about this, the bad guys are flinging around magic left and right, with no cost whatsoever.

 

And he almost said something about his childhood.

Was Hook actually saying something about his childhood, or just relating to Emma's? And did I imagine it, or did it sound kind of like he was relating to the foster care thing? She was obviously too distracted by finding a complete file on her in an evil ice cream truck in the woods to think about asking him follow-up questions.

[KAOS Agent]

Regina's thoughts on what she needs for her happy ending are ambiguous at best, but the way they've framed it, it seems like she thinks the writer will change the stories in the book and she'll get Robin that way. So either Marian & Robin never meet (no Roland!) or she dies some other way or they break up.

 

Robin is a jackass. Regina should quit mooning over someone who sucks so much and find someone way better. You know how they say once a cheater, always a cheater? This applies to other things as well. Who's to say Robin won't decide he loves someone more bold and audacious in the future and lament being stuck with Regina?

 

*Has not yet watched the episode* *watching an epic documentary on the honey badger instead*

[Curio]

Can Belle just transform into Mirror Belle?  Evil Belle is way more fun then normal Belle, and better acted.

 

I second this. I'm not a fan of Belle in general, but if I'm forced to watch her on my screen, can she at least have some backbone and be interesting?

 

Was I the only one really confused about the way they edited the first couple of flashback scenes? First, Belle and her mom are being attacked by a troll. Then, Belle randomly wakes up from a nightmare and finds out her mom is dead, but she has no memory of it. Were we supposed to think she forgot about the entire troll incident, or did she remember everything the audience got to see? Because seriously, how freaking dumb do you have to be to go on a world-hopping quest to figure out what happened in that situation? Belle...the last thing you remember was you and your mom being attacked by a troll. Now she's dead. Wow, I wonder what happened!

 

And I agree with whoever said it upthread - there was absolutely no reason Belle's dad needed to keep that "secret." Belle already knew her mom was dead, so you might as well say how she died. It would have been better if they left it ambiguous and made it seem like her mom might have just gone missing instead. That would have made Belle's motivation to get her memories back a lot more believable and her dad's confession at the end more emotional.

 

God, what a complete waste of 40 minutes.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

Were we supposed to think she forgot about the entire troll incident, or did she remember everything the audience got to see? Because seriously, how freaking dumb do you have to be to go on a world-hopping quest to figure out what happened in that situation? Belle...the last thing you remember was you and your mom being attacked by a troll. Now she's dead. Wow, I wonder what happened!

And I agree with whoever said it upthread - there was absolutely no reason Belle's dad needed to keep that "secret." Belle already knew her mom was dead, so you might as well say how she died. It would have been better if they left it ambiguous and made it seem like her mom might have just gone missing instead. That would have made Belle's motivation to get her memories back a lot more believable and her dad's confession t the end more emotional.

 

This is why I believe Belle's nightmare wasn't real or it was hiding something, and that her dad was lying about what really happened. For one, he wouldn't have gone through so much trouble to keep it a secret if it were that simple, and two, there was a reason why we had to believe his story instead of finding out with the trolls' stone. The guy is so freaking suspicious. He didn't even seem that upset about his wife dying.

Edited November 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Leia1979]

Very meh. Admittedly, I can't stand OUAT Belle, and it's made even worse that she's my favorite Disney princess. I really thought she was going to figure out the fake dagger this episode. MirrorBelle was a heck of a lot more interesting. Belle's cold weather outfit with the thigh highs was just ridiculous, as was both Belle and Anna wearing high-heeled boots mountain climbing. 

 

After last week, Regina was surprisingly rational. I still rolled my eyes during her conversation with Robin, but I suppose that was actually more at Robin.

 

Oaken was wonderful. A spot-on performance.

 

I love that Emma continues to use the term "Dairy Queen." Hook really got the line of the night with his "everyone's related" comment. I liked Hook and Emma's little exchange about blondes, too. Jen's expression was priceless in that moment. Fortunately next week looks far more interesting.

[Actionmage]

Was Snow excited to see young Emma?  Was she sad that she was in foster care?  We will never know.

 

Adopted kids rule, foster kids drool? *g* (Adopted as an infant, here. Just tongue-in-cheek.)  Seriously, though, Even though the happy memories were erased, Emma seemed to have had a period of her life that wasn't unrelenting anguish and depression. I, too, hope the pictures were surreptitiously spirited back to the Hovel.

 

At least the Show is being consistent; Truth (from Mirror!Belle) = Evil. Shut up, Show!

 

Mo has been shady from the jump. It shouldn't surprise anyone that Belle loves Rumple when she previously unreservedly loved Maurice. The man was okay with taking all memories from his daughter because he didn't agree with her choice of then-) boyfriend! The man doesn't half-ass his shadiness. 

 

I am hoping that this is Belle's wake-up, wrt her self-respect. Belle has been drifting since That Kiss with Rumple. Kidnapped by Regina, Hook trying to murder her to hurt Rumple, going through The Curse in a mental hospital floor/cell, having her father try to erase her memories, having Regina "gift" her with Lacey, watching Rumple murder/suicide with his father, see/know her love was a pawn in Zelina's plan, and now her marriage and being deemed Keeper of The Dagger. I'm not a big fan of Belle's, but  Belle and Emilie have not been treated well by the writers, at least not since S1, imo.

 

Btw, have Belle and Robin shared any scenes in Storybrooke? Why Robin isn't asking Belle to mediate between he and Gold to cure Marian seems yet another lost opportunity. Yes, Robin may not "love love" Marian, but surely he doesn't want Roland to continue to be kept from his mom? Or at least, you know, cured on general principle. It can't be because he's afraid of Gold due to the torture that we aren't forgetting. It shouldn't be because of Bae; Robin helped Bae. Robin could bring up how it would be a waste of the rare mercy that Rumple showed to let Marian die. Yet, I feel pretty certain we'll end up with butt-head Robin, who can't tell when he needs to give someone room.

 

I liked the flashbacks this episode. I'm willing to see where they take Belle. Hopefully, since Anna's not dead, Belle can do something heroic.

 

This episode needed more sand-digging by Will Scarlet.

[Camera One]

This episode was really something.  All I have in my head right now is that song "Just the Two of Us", except I'm hearing "Just the Three of Us".  

 

I don't know why I've been able to swallow one ridiculous plot after another on this show, but I just couldn't take this one seriously.  It's so convoluted.   The Snow Queen thought that she, Elsa and Anna would be one big happy family, but what's the big deal if Anna was "out"?  Why couldn't she just be happy with Elsa?  Just mind-wipe her and make her forget all about Anna.  Does the Snow Queen have some psychotic need to be in a family of three?  Then, there was that ridiculous Prophesy that the Saviour will be the Snow Queen's sister.  Huh?  Why does it have to be another sister?  Elsa's a niece but that's ok?  When was this prophesy written?  By who?  Isn't Emma just the Saviour of Rumple's Curse?  And why the need for Emma to look exactly like Helga, the middle sister?  Did Emma live back in time and was actually Helga?  It feels too out-there to me.  They haven't provided enough information for me to buy into it.  Plus it gave me bad flashbacks of the "Henry-has-the-heart-of-the-truest-believer" Prophesy, complete with Perfect Sketch.  Which we still know nothing about.

 

It feels to me the last few episodes have been written in a way where the characters talk in circles, and it was the same in this one.  Rumple and the Snow Queen had that ultra cryptic talk, where they both talked around that hat without mentioning it, about who has what leverage, blah blah blah.  It nearly put me to sleep.  And at the end, we see them talking again, except now they can talk about that hat.  Thanks for making us watch the conversation twice.  If the Snow Queen's plan was so ultra secret, why did she expose the mirror to Belle?  Does Rumple not have the ability to steal that mirror?  Why not?  I couldn't buy the power play between Rumple and Snow Queen, because the limits of their powers are so undefined.  What does Rumple want from the Snow Queen anyway?  At this point, it's hard to care any less.  

 

What was with the horrible pacing?  Suddenly, in the last 30 seconds, we got a huge rush of info, that the Snow Queen's Mirror is part of "an awful spell of shattered sight, magic which will make everyone turn on one another."   This reveal felt so unearned.  I'm glad they're doing a homage to the original Snow Queen story, but the flashbacks should have revealed the true purpose the mirror instead of having it just parroted it to us out-of-nowhere.

 

They should have allowed Belle to find out everything in this one.  It was an annoying tease (not to mention a waste of one complete episode) that even though the Mirror told her the truth and Rumple pretty much did the opposite of what she commanded, yet STILL, Belle didn't clue in.  They're married and supposedly in love, but Belle asks Rumple once to go with her to the Snow Queen and then immediately resort to commanding him like a slave with the Dagger?  What the hell?!!!  This isn't a flawed relationship, it's not a relationship.  Are they trying to destroy the coupling intentionally?

 

They did such a good job with Belle's character in "Ariel" and this entire season pretty much destroyed it.  How dense can someone be?  And we have to wait for *another* episode of her figuring it out?   This episode can be perfectly paired with "Breaking Glass" since we got another character (this time Belle) begging for forgiveness when they should be running for the hills.  "I don't believe I deserve to be with you!"  "You forgive me?"  In what universe are these scenes enjoyable to watch?   On a shallow note, Belle's bright red lipstick was so distracting.

 

I really couldn't warm to Anna in this one.  She was great in the season premiere, but I haven't been impressed with her episodes since.  They could have given her something more solid to go by, rather than just have her randomly declaring the Snow Queen is "up to something".  And immediately after finding out some non-information from the Rock Trolls, she declares that she has to "warn" Elsa.  How about finding out the facts first?  Why didn't Anna just send Kristoff to find out if his Rock Troll family knew about the Aunt, other than that we needed to have the contrived situation of Belle being responsible for Anna disappearing?  

 

The only solution the Rock Trolls have to anything, is to just erase everyone's memories?  What the heck?!

 

I can't fully enjoy episodes where people are duped, and in this one, we got Belle duped by Rumple, Elsa duped by Belle, and Emma duped by the Snow Queen, not realizing she is just being fed the files about her past.

 

Which leaves the only good thing about this episode, Snow and Charming being in the same room as the video.  Even though Snow got one line and Charming didn't even get one.  It was fun to ignore the rest of the dialogue at the police station and just watch Ginny in the background staring at the television screen like she was shell-shocked. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Random thoughts:

 

Oh noes! Evil ogres are coming. Let's hide under this totally exposed table in the center of the room. Why not hide in the big trunks or the closet or you know pretty much anywhere besides under a freaking table?!

 

Glad someone finally asked Rumpel how the hell he missed the eight million other ways people have found to get to this world.

 

Belle is just awful isn't she? What have they done to my favorite Disney princess? Mirror!Belle, though, she's awesome. Can we have her instead?

 

I'm not sure why the Snow Queen was feeding Emma her files, but Emma seemed to know that those were definitely her work. I believe that they probably were. I'd also be willing to believe that if the Snow Queen was genuinely nice and cared for Emma, it would be very easy to manipulate her into believing that they could be a family. Crazy as the Snow Queen is, I think she does actually care for Emma and I don't believe any of that stuff in the file was faked or kept for any reason other than that she really loves Emma in her sick way.

 

And finally, Robin. Oh Robin, you have surpassed Cursed!David in your jackassery. I hope your wife takes your beautiful child and leaves you and that Regina discovers pixie dust lies and runs off with some hot guy from somewhere far, far away from the Enchanted Forest. 

[stealinghome]

I don't know why I've been able to swallow one ridiculous plot after another on this show, but I just couldn't take this one seriously.  It's so convoluted.   The Snow Queen thought that she, Elsa and Anna would be one big happy family, but what's the big deal if Anna was "out"?  Why couldn't she just be happy with Elsa?  Just mind-wipe her and make her forget all about Anna.  Does the Snow Queen have some psychotic need to be in a family of three?  Then, there was that ridiculous Prophesy that the Saviour will be the Snow Queen's sister.  Huh?  Why does it have to be another sister?  Elsa's a niece but that's ok?  When was this prophesy written?  By who?  Isn't Emma just the Saviour of Rumple's Curse?  And why the need for Emma to look exactly like Helga, the middle sister?  Did Emma live back in time and was actually Helga?  It feels too out-there to me.  They haven't provided enough information for me to buy into it.

I don't disagree, but I'm willing to wait and see where the show goes with all this. It seems clear to me, for example, that we're going to find out more about what happened to Dairy Queen and Helga, and why Gerda never mentioned Dairy Queen to her kids, etc. And the trolls' mindwipe really perked my interest--that sounds familiar, no?

 

I mean, I don't doubt that we'll never get the answer to a few of these questions, but it seems clear to me that there is still more of the puzzle yet to be revealed. imo it's a little premature to hammer the storyline for not making sense when they're still holding things back.

[MaiLuna]

It wasn't one of the better ones this season but I liked it.

 

I liked Emma, Emma/Hook (though it did bother me that Hook mentioned his childhood and Emma didn't even care, I liked the blondes and everyone's related jokes) and I like that we finally got a bunch of answers.

 

How can Belle not realize she doesn't have the real dagger? Isn't she supposed to be smart? 

 

I enjoyed Anna so much in this episode. She seemed much more real. 

I'm excited to see more of the SQ's plan with Elsa/Emma and the breaking of the mirror. It should be entertaining to see the town go crazy. 

I also liked Regina telling Robin off, he needs to make a decision and not string Regina along telling her he loves her for her to save his frozen wife. That's just messed up.

I liked that Snow got emotional over seeing teenage Emma. It was 10 seconds but it was better than nothing...  

[Camera One]

I don't disagree, but I'm willing to wait and see where the show goes with all this. It seems clear to me, for example, that we're going to find out more about what happened to Dairy Queen and Helga, and why Gerda never mentioned Dairy Queen to her kids, etc. And the trolls' mindwipe really perked my interest--that sounds familiar, no?

I mean, I don't doubt that we'll never get the answer to a few of these questions, but it seems clear to me that there is still more of the puzzle yet to be revealed. imo it's a little premature to hammer the storyline for not making sense when they're still holding things back.

 

I'm definitely waiting to judge until I know the whole story too.  But the way the story is being revealed this season is not working for me.  Puzzle pieces are fine, but they should be laid out in a way where each piece of info adds to the bigger, incomplete picture as we currently know it.  If this episode's flashback had been about the Mirror's properties, or about the Three Sisters, it would have made the story more coherent, and it would have made the Snow Queen's plan more believable for me.  To me, the episode failed because I couldn't believe in what was happening.  Hopefully, the season will be better in marathon mode, but the journey should be just as important as the destination in this type of storytelling.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Camera One

[Minneapple]

Goddamn, that was a lot of nothing with a BIG INFO DUMP at the end. Can't we get at least one conversation with Snow and Emma about her childhood rather than the ENDLESS talking from various other characters? I wish they'd paired Anna up with any one of the Storybrook characters OTHER than Belle.

 

Robin Hood is pretty much the worst. "Let's talk, Regina. I'm in love with you but my wife is still frozen." This is what it takes to make Regina look good, I guess.

 

Belle is dumber than a box of rocks (SORRY, GRAND PABBIE, I DON'T REALLY MEAN IT). And I don't understand how anyone can ship Belle/Rumple as a romantic pairing considering all the lies and the deceit and the stupidity involved. The Belle-mirror scene was the first time I've liked Belle since her first episode (though I've missed a few in between). Kisses to the mirror, telling Belle the truth about how dumb she is. And kudos to Emilie de Ravin for that scene.

 

The DQ is going through a LOT OF WORK just to have Emma and Elsa as her sisters. Everything she's doing just seems so unnecessarily complicated. Mindwiping, creating fake files for Emma and a GIANT ICE CAVE, trapping Anna, showing off tons of cleavage. There must be an easier way to bring about your Evil Plan, Dairy Queen.

[KAOS Agent]

Question: Where was Baby Snowflake during the confab at the sheriff's station? 

[Camera One]

Question: Where was Baby Snowflake during the confab at the sheriff's station? 

 

Charming was asking Belle if she could track, so maybe Granny and Red were babysitting?

[myril]

So, Elsa's mom is Gerda, the name of the protagonist from the original fairy tale. AWESOME.

 

In the movie the names weren't given in the credits, but some deciphered what was written on the memorial stones, the name for the queen as Idun, the king's name as Agdar. But for many people, obviously including the writers of Once, the queen and king of Arendelle had no names so far. That they now named her Gerda made me of course laugh, after all that has been my head canon for a couple of weeks.

 

I'm very close to reaching the point where I enjoy discussing this show more than actually watching the show.

 

I am there. Only still watching the whole episodes to discuss things with all of you here and in another forum.

 

 

There were some weird technical issues in this ep. WTF was up with the shaky camera? I almost got motion sickness in the DQ/Anna scene in the jail. And there were odd edits and camera angles throughout.

 

No idea if the shaking camera was on purpose or just tech issue. But migth take a second a look on the episode just for angles, framing, camera.

 

 

 

So Anna & Belle had to climb a mountain to get to the rock trolls in this ep, but Anna (in a wedding dress & carrying a book!) & Elsa were able to saunter there in the opener? I suppose Elsa could have magicked them there, but I side eye it.

 

A landslide caused by careless Grand Pabbie groupies blocked the Convenient Road, so they had to take the long and difficult Test-A-Hero track.

 

And then once she got the magical quest object for which she'd traveled all that way, has she heard of purses or pockets or otherwise keeping it secure instead of just carrying it around?

 

Just the usual problem with so women and their clothes: no pockets. We just have no pockets to put stuff away or have the right things at hand, so we fail regularly to take care of ourselves and at being heroes.

 

 

The Contrivance Fairy gets hopefully paid overtime. Because she sure has to do a lot this season.

 

They had to shoehorn Belle into the story somehow, did they.  So she develop some hero complex based on guilty feelings for letting Anna down.  And because of her guilty feelings about that Belt felt now desperate to use the dagger to force her oh so lovely Rumple to go with her to somehow force the Snow Queen to tell her where Anna is. Why does a book smart person has to be so dumb about real life things? Tired of that nerd trope, didn't work for guys neither does it work good for women. Whatever.

 

The Swan Queen wants to build her own family, okay, became a foster mom and got her hands on Emma, offering her attention and interest Emma felt she didn't get before. Like mother like son, right? But the Swan Queen is a lunatic sorcerers who likely will get locked up or killed in the end, Emma will not become her loving cheerleader and partner in crime, while Henry will stay blind and an teenage idiot, and dear Regina is so much smarter and adapts and becomes mother, friend and mayor of the year. Whatever.

 

Despite that the story is getting weaker and weaker every week (no surprise there, sadly), Elizabeth Mitchell's Snow Queen is still a joy to watch.

 

 

Question: Where was Baby Snowflake during the confab at the sheriff's station? 

 

Red watched with Mulan over Baby Snowflake and Little Aurora, while  Snow and Charming where trying to pretend to do their jobs, and Aurora and Phillip were out for some adult time alone.

Edited November 3, 2014 by katusch

[Emma]

Yoo-Hoo ... Can we keep Oaken too?

[kitticup]

I know I in the minority but I liked this episode. Maybe my expectations were really low since Belle is my least favorite character.

While I have railed against Rumbelle for being abusive and have compared belle to a gangster moll, I liked their scenes together and what the mirror exposed. I think the mirror gave us a glimpse into truths that belle is trying to hide from herself. She suspects the dagger is fake but can't admit it because it means everything she's built her world around is a lie. His gives me hope for belle because at some level she knows the truth. She even questioned rumple about the dagger but she was so confused and disoriented that rumple was able to manipulate her. She's going to think back and her suspicions will only increase. Rumbelle is not and has never been a healthy relationship. I hope when the truth about the dagger comes out that belle breaks up with rumple. I would like to see belle go dark. I can't stand her when she a sanctimonious hypocrite.

Belle is very immature. She lacks true empathy. She shown it in the past when she blames Rumple's victims and in this episode with the memory stone. She also is easily manipulated because she has ungrounded beliefs around love and heroism.

This episode did explain for me why belle willing went with rumple.

About hook, I think he was relating to Emma both as someone who was also abandoned as a child, but also as someone who initially took in a teen for perhaps questionable motives but came to love that teen (bealfire).

[KAOS Agent]

It did bother me that Hook mentioned his childhood and Emma didn't even care, I liked the blondes and everyone's related jokes

 

Hook commented about childhood wounds tending to linger and Emma asked how he'd know. He did not respond with a specific example, simply said he was a child once too. He was trying to tell Emma he understood to get her to open up and she doesn't want to go there, so she brushed it off with a joke. It wasn't really an appropriate time for them to have a heart to heart about their respective childhoods anyway. 

 

And the comment about how maybe she wasn't just using her, but had actually grown fond of her was definitely a reference to his experience with Baelfire.

Edited November 3, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Trini]

*Theory Time*

 

Assuming the portraits in the history(?) book aren't faked/magicked (which is definitely a possibility), the reason Emma looks like the third sister is because she's a blood relative. So is she related through Snow or Charming?

[Rumsy4]

I think it's quite likely the DQ is related to Emma via Snow.

The Trolls' mass memory-erasures are getting to be quite tiresome. How can you protect yourself from danger, if you don't even know that the danger exists?

I'm still not over how criminally under-used Frances O'Connor was. It was a pointless name-drop, unless they cut out some scenes post-production. I bet most viewers didn't know who the actress even was.

If they were trying to sell OQ through scenes like what we got this episode, they're going about it the wrong way. If they had bothered to develop their romance in 3B, more people may have cared.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

* If all the records of Ingrid and Helga were erased, how did Elsa find one in the library?

 

The same way all of the mysterious books of the Universe just happened to show up in the school library on "Buffy".

 

Could somebody please tone down Belle's lipstick?

 

Seeing Frances O'Connor reminded me of AI: Artificial Intelligence.  And AI always makes me cry.  :'(

Edited November 3, 2014 by Rick Kitchen

[InsertWordHere]

*Theory Time*

Assuming the portraits in the history(?) book aren't faked/magicked (which is definitely a possibility), the reason Emma looks like the third sister is because she's a blood relative. So is she related through Snow or Charming?

I've been trying to figure that out and barring some sort of baby switch/secret adoption of Snow or Charming (which they've already done with James), it just doesn't work IMO. Which is a shame since I've been hoping for a Snow being born during the worst winter ever connection since they revealed they were doing Frozen.

Anna and Elsa are of an age with Snow, or maybe a little younger. Same with Charming. Helga would be slightly older than Elsa's Mom as the middle sister, but unless there's a huge age gap, not old enough to have a child in Eva or Ruth or Charming Daddy. Definitely not Leopold. Unless they reveal one of those to be yet another missing sibling and Emma is related through them. Or Ruth is a secret brunette Helga.

Edited November 3, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[Serena]

I don't know why I've been able to swallow one ridiculous plot after another on this show, but I just couldn't take this one seriously.  It's so convoluted.   The Snow Queen thought that she, Elsa and Anna would be one big happy family, but what's the big deal if Anna was "out"?  Why couldn't she just be happy with Elsa?  Just mind-wipe her and make her forget all about Anna.  Does the Snow Queen have some psychotic need to be in a family of three? 

Well, yes, she does have that need, because she's trying to recreate the relationship she had with her sisters. So she needs two. It's not rational, but it makes kind of psychotic sense.

[stealinghome]

Or Ruth is a secret brunette Helga.

if there's a family connection, I agree this must be it--none of the other options work. And it does strike me that they made a point of bringing Ruth back in 4x02....

[FurryFury]

A better episode than I expected. 

 

Belle got upgraded from a prop to a plot device - yay, I guess. EdR still bugs, though.

 

Arendelle was great, except for Anna, she also still bugs. Elsa and DQ/Ingrid (yay, a name!) were terrific, though. Still not sold on Ingrid's motive, though. Kinda dull. But Mitchell continues to kill, although I expected a tiny bit more from her scene with Rumple, the dialogue felt a bit clunky, with the "leverage" stuff.

 

Belle's talk with the mirror felt surprisingly on the nose. Coupled with Hook's quip about everyone being related, it showed a somewhat stronger awareness of some of the stuff we talk about all the time, which was nice, but ultimately irrelevant - we all know that whatever the things Rumple does, they will end up together anyway.

 

Belle's mother looked eerily like Cora, and also barely older than EdR. 

 

Also, another episode with barely any Regina. Felt like a breath of fresh air after the previous one. At this point I'd take even Belle over Regina, that's how bad it's got.

[NotBothered]

This is why I believe Belle's nightmare wasn't real or it was hiding something, and that her dad was lying about what really happened. For one, he wouldn't have gone through so much trouble to keep it a secret if it were that simple, and two, there was a reason why we had to believe his story instead of finding out with the trolls' stone. The guy is so freaking suspicious. He didn't even seem that upset about his wife dying.

Yeah.  I kept expecting there to be a reveal (at least the audience) that something else happened.  I was hoping that the books weren't valuable just because they were books, but because they had some secret that needed to be kept.  And that Belle's mother was really alive, but helped captive.  I wonder if this will be revisited in the future.

[Mari]

I think I missed something.  Why, exactly, did Anna decide DQ was shady and evil?  From what I understood, it was entirely because DQ hadn't 'fessed up immediately that she and their mother had a third sister?  Was there more to that, and I just didn't catch it?

 

Because there are reasons besides "Evil!!!!" that she might not mention the third sister.  The girls obviously don't know about her, and it's painful to discuss, for example.

[ParadoxLost]

I think I missed something.  Why, exactly, did Anna decide DQ was shady and evil?  From what I understood, it was entirely because DQ hadn't 'fessed up immediately that she and their mother had a third sister?  Was there more to that, and I just didn't catch it?

 

Because there are reasons besides "Evil!!!!" that she might not mention the third sister.  The girls obviously don't know about her, and it's painful to discuss, for example.

 

I think Anna got to Evil because her parents never mentioned an Aunt and not mentioning the other sister in their 30 second meeting was confirmation of what Anna wanted to believe.

 

Anna is just too irritating for me to deal with.  I think its some weird sisterly jealousy or fear of being displaced more than anything.  Really, if her parents were planning to get rid of Elsa's magic, not mentioning a magic wielding sister/Aunt is not that hard to believe.

[YaddaYadda]

Why Robin isn't asking Belle to mediate between he and Gold to cure Marian seems yet another lost opportunity.

 

There's nothing in it for Belle.  I mean for all her talk about good and rotten hearts and looking down on people, she's really a massive asshole who apparently doesn't have much self-awareness.  No wonder she's okay with a lot of things that Rumple does, like crushing his ex-wife's heart.  So thank you mirror for speaking the truth.  I am totally team mirror and cannot wait to see that thing shatter.  And if anything, the mirror showed just how stupid Belle really is.  I mean seriously.

 

And now I know what Hook does during his free time.  He sits there contemplating the Storybrooke family tree.  Regina is Snow's step mother who adopted Snow's grandson who is also Rumple grandson by blood because Baelfire and Emma had him together then that also means...then reaching for his flask of rum while looking at random blondes crossing Main street.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love Mirror Belle! It's about time someone told Belle what's up since she's obviously too dumb to figure it out herself.

 

Belle: That mirror is evil! It told me all these horrible things
Me: Like THE TRUTH.

 

Belle is dumber than a box of rocks (SORRY, GRAND PABBIE, I DON'T REALLY MEAN IT).

Ha, A+ for you!

 

I have had issues with the makeup people from the beginning. I mean, these are professionals yet I can always see the line where JM's and GG's fake eyelashes end. Based on that, the bar is set pretty low for me on this show. But damn, they really sank to a new level in this episode. Belle looked absolutely terrible in that first scene. She looked haggard, like a 40 year old chain smoker who piled on the concealer and powder then stood under a fluorescent light or went to the beach. I had way more issue with that than her screaming red lipstick.

 

Later, Elsa's blush was so bright and not blended well (or at all). Back in the late 80s. there was an article in Sassy magazine about dos and dont's for makeup. One of them was to apply a little powder to your face first before putting on blush. There was an example of what not to do in the form of a picture of Debbie Gibson. To this day, I still remember the exact phrasing said, "It looks like she's whacked this blush on her bare cheeks." That's what I thought of when I saw Elsa tonight. It was BLUSH AHOY!

Edited November 3, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[daxx]

A resounding Meh.

 

There were some weird technical issues in this ep. WTF was up with the shaky camera? I almost got motion sickness in the DQ/Anna scene in the jail. And there were odd edits and camera angles throughout.

 

Someone on Tumblr was speculating that the jail is on a ship, hence the shaky camera work to give the sense of movement..

[Faemonic]

I really miss Red. And Tinkerbell, a little bit.

I agree with whoever said it upthread - there was absolutely no reason Belle's dad needed to keep that "secret."

Unless that was the wrong secret! Moe's tried to take Belle's memories before, and I agree with everybody upthread who's said that Belle's father acted super shady about his wife dying. Like, used-Belle's-Mother-as-human-sacrifice-to-open-portal-and-summon-ogre-eating-eldtrich-abominations-from-other-dimensions-as-Belle-looked-on-in-horror kind of shady.

It wasn't a blatant story of his childhood, but he opened that door only for it to be slammed shut by another joke about his age. Ha Ha..he's old. He is hundreds of years old. I get it. We all get it. So can we get the story now?

That was a weird line to me, too. Emma does her Emma bantering, so I didn't think that was shutting Hook down, but... it was like half a thought? "The past can hurt." "You'd know that being 1000." "Closer to 200..." And it still hurts. Say that. Just... complete the thought, Captain Quipper. Complete the thought and hold hands or something.

I mourn the loss of the between-the-lines vitriolic friendship between Hook and Regina.

Okay, I'm the opposite of a Rumbelle fan. I watched this and thought "Creepy. Gross. Creepy." But now I'm curious--how did this episode come across to people that truly enjoy the pairing?

They've interested me for the first time since Skin Deep. There was a blip with Lacey really being a Belle who appreciates Rumple's dark side, but that went nowhere fast and didn't even get in the crossNealfire.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Faemonic

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I also hated the bit where Anna and Kristoff were talking in the barn and she kept moving her head around Sven's horns. I mean, I get that they wanted the appearance of Sven being there without actually having him there, but I found it really annoying to have those huge horns in the middle of the screen with Anna bouncing around them.

[tv echo]

Present day Belle looked about 10 years older than usual with that pulled up hair and frumpy clothes.  Maybe being married to Gold has aged her.  Unfortunately, she still acted immaturely.  Even though Gold lied about the dagger and pretended to be compelled, it was still an abuse of trust for Belle to use that dagger to 'force' Gold to do something he didn't want to do.  I did like the character consistency of Belle still looking to books for answers.

 

Inconsistency?  Flashback Elsa has white hair while present day Elsa has blonde hair.  The difference was noticeable. 

 

I guess Anna's 'magical power' is the ability to tell if someone is good or evil.  How else to explain her immediate negative suspicion of Aunt Ingrid.

 

Elizabeth Mitchell is much better at portraying a villain than a hero.  Her Snow Queen is perfect... except for her motivation.

 

So the big reveal is that the Snow Queen plans to have the Storybrooke residents wipe each other out, leaving her with Elsa and Emma as her new family?  Well, that's... anti-climactic.   I guess the three of them can then become the new Charmed Ones - oops, wrong show.

[Primetimer]

A very eventful episode of Once Upon A Time gets through a ton of backstory, brings Belle out of the shadows, and gives us some fabulous costumes!

Read the story

[FurryFury]

I guess the three of them can then become the new Charmed Ones - oops, wrong show.

 

At this point, I'd watch it over Once in a heartbeat. 

[HeimrArnadalr]

Decent episode overall. The mirror was the most interesting part; I hope some more characters run into it before Ingrid casts the spell. I wonder what it would say about Robin Hood?

 

Oaken was perfect. Nice casting job there, he really had the accent down. Arendelle Castle still looks nice, and I'm not going to try to figure out where in the castle that room is.

 

My least favorite part was when Grand Pabbie said Anna's mother's name is Gerda. No it's not! It's Iðunn! It says so right on the gravestones! Although the writing there was apparently conveniently changed for this show.

 

Someone on Tumblr was speculating that the jail is on a ship, hence the shaky camera work to give the sense of movement..

The stone brick walls of the prison would seem to preclude such a possibility.

 

Then, there was that ridiculous Prophesy that the Saviour will be the Snow Queen's sister.  Huh?  Why does it have to be another sister?  Elsa's a niece but that's ok?  When was this prophesy written?  By who?  Isn't Emma just the Saviour of Rumple's Curse?  And why the need for Emma to look exactly like Helga, the middle sister?  Did Emma live back in time and was actually Helga?

The entire scroll seems to imply that Ingrid wrote it herself, particularly with the "The savior shall be my sister" part.

 

Thank god they didn't quote Frozen this week. i mean it was nice the first couple of episodes, now it's getting tiresome.

"She sacrificed herself for me." "She loved you..."

[Mari]

I think Anna got to Evil because her parents never mentioned an Aunt and not mentioning the other sister in their 30 second meeting was confirmation of what Anna wanted to believe.

 

Anna is just too irritating for me to deal with.  I think its some weird sisterly jealousy or fear of being displaced more than anything.  Really, if her parents were planning to get rid of Elsa's magic, not mentioning a magic wielding sister/Aunt is not that hard to believe.

Yeah.  I guess I'm fully expecting to find out that her parents weren't trying to de-special (because only magic makes you an individual.  Blech.) Elsa, but in the context of what Anna knows right now, it's entirely plausible that parents trying to get rid of their daughter's magic wouldn't mention the aunt with the exact same magic.

 

And, really, who meets someone and then immediately tells them all their most painful memories?  "Hello, I'm your aunt who was tragically rejected by our family after your other aunt--my sister--had some sort of mysterious mishap.  Let me tell you about it, and how painful it was, right this minute."

[Amerilla]

Okay, I'm the opposite of a Rumbelle fan. I watched this and thought "Creepy. Gross. Creepy." But now I'm curious--how did this episode come across to people that truly enjoy the pairing?

 

There's a general approval this morning in the Rumbelle tumblrs I follow, but I think a lot of that was just happiness that Belle got more twelve seconds of screen time.  Plus, there was a lot of concern within the fandom after the sneak peek about the implications of Belle using the dagger, and that simmered down a bit once it was seen in context.

 

I can only speak for myself, but it's the fact that they are so imperfect, so wrong, so messed up, so totally un-Ken-and-Barbie, that makes me like Rumbelle and enjoy Belle as a character. So from that perspective, the episode came across as enjoyable for the same reasons other episodes make Captain Swan fans happy - because they are there together, because I got to see a bit of a character and an actress I like. Quality almost doesn't matter, since we get so little quantity. The story was, obviously, no more coherent or subtle than usual.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Amerilla

[The Real Chon]

I was confuzzed by this, particularly in the writer's portrayal of Belle. She always was the moral bellwether, at times even haughty in her indignation, for Rumple of the Stiltskin, yet now all of a sudden she has been just ask deceptive and disingenuous, all in an episode. For me, that just clunked up the episode.

Also, was something wrong with the Dairy Queen's voice? She seemed a little hoarse. Or hoar-se (like the frost. Get it? Sorry ...).

This seemed like the writers needed to set off an exposition bomb to set up the next half-season.

[Curio]

A very eventful episode of Once Upon A Time gets through a ton of backstory, brings Belle out of the shadows, and gives us some fabulous costumes!

http://previously.tv/once-upon-a-time/no-denying-shes-a-funny-girl-that-belle/"> Read the story

 

I apologize if we're not allowed to comment about these write-ups in here, but I just had to give my two cents.

 

Am I the only one confused about the recap style? Do they rank characters solely on how cute they looked in an outfit? Or do they rank based on how ridiculously awful their storyline is? Because in what world is Belle considered the best character in this episode or Robin Hood ranked ahead of Hook?

 

(P.S. Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate reading the write-ups! Even if I don't necessarily agree with some of the analysis...)

[Mari]

There's a general approval this morning in the Rumbelle tumblrs I follow, but I think a lot of that was just happiness that Belle got more twelve seconds of screen time.  Plus, there was a lot of concern within the fandom after the sneak peek about the implications of Belle using the dagger, and that simmered down a bit once it was seen in context.

 

I can only speak for myself, but it's the fact that they are so imperfect, so wrong, so messed up, so totally un-Ken-and-Barbie, that makes me like Rumbelle and enjoy Belle as a character.

Thanks, Amerilla.  It's interesting to know that it generally went over well with the Rumbelle

fandom.   Are you expecting major fall-out from the dagger reveal when it happens, or do you think it will be a blink-and-miss it? 

 

Because both Belle using the dagger, and Rumple giving her a fake dagger, seem to be fairly egregious breaches of trust--which the mirror scene did force Belle to at least think about consciously.

 

 

I was confuzzed by this, particularly in the writer's portrayal of Belle. She always was the moral bellwether, at times even haughty in her indignation, for Rumple of the Stiltskin, yet now all of a sudden she has been just ask deceptive and disingenuous, all in an episode. For me, that just clunked up the episode.

 

The thing is, Belle has been moral and indignant when it suited the plot, and suited her.  But she's also a character who's talked about loving Rumple's darkness, and been pretty comfortable letting him do whatever he wants, as long as she doesn't have to pay too much attention to it, and it doesn't interfere with her desired self-image.

 

I can buy that Belle firmly believes that the ends justify the means in this case--that it's okay to lie to Elsa, and force Rumple--because letting Anna stay with the Snow Queen conflicted with Belle's own self-image of being a good person who tries to be a hero.

[ShadowFacts]

Poor Belle, yet another victim of the memory wipe.  I hate those memory losses and restorations as much as the heart-rippings, and almost as much as the Emma character assassination.  And in this episode there were three, right?  Belle's, the entire kingdom of Arendelle regarding the missing sisters, and Emma's of the Dairy Queen months.  Really, really ludicrous.  I like deranged DQ a lot, but have to say the motivation for her whole plan is pretty weak.  What are the three of them going to do when everyone else is gone?  Book club?  Magic competitions?  Boring.  Plus, I am a little distracted by the immobility of Elizabeth Mitchell's upper lip.  Otherwise, perfect ice queen and good villain.

 

ETA:  I'm with others who can't bear to watch whole episodes, only bits and then seeing what's been said here.  What will there be once Frozen is over?  I will not watch Regina and I don't swoon for the Cap.   

Edited November 3, 2014 by ShadowFacts

[alrightythen]

What was with the gagging face that Anna made when she took a sip of that drink (tea?) Kristoff handed her?   I believe she even spit something back into the cup?  Did that have significance?  I kept rewinding it and trying to make sense of it, which set off my own gag reflex. 

 

I really have to watch Frozen.  I feel that so much of this season is going over my head.

 

Also…  Elsa, Emma, Anna… Really show?  This is a cruel thing to do to a sleep-deprived person who has trouble with names anyway.

Edited November 3, 2014 by alrightythen

[angelwoody]

I love Mirror Belle! It's about time someone told Belle what's up since she's obviously too dumb to figure it out herself.

 

Belle: That mirror is evil! It told me all these horrible things

Me: Like THE TRUTH.

 

Ha, A+ for you!

 

I have had issues with the makeup people from the beginning. I mean, these are professionals yet I can always see the line where JM's and GG's fake eyelashes end. Based on that, the bar is set pretty low for me on this show. But damn, they really sank to a new level in this episode. Belle looked absolutely terrible in that first scene. She looked haggard, like a 40 year old chain smoker who piled on the concealer and powder then stood under a fluorescent light or went to the beach. I had way more issue with that than her screaming red lipstick.

 

Later, Elsa's blush was so bright and not blended well (or at all). Back in the late 80s. there was an article in Sassy magazine about dos and dont's for makeup. One of them was to apply a little powder to your face first before putting on blush. There was an example of what not to do in the form of a picture of Debbie Gibson. To this day, I still remember the exact phrasing said, "It looks like she's whacked this blush on her bare cheeks." That's what I thought of when I saw Elsa tonight. It was BLUSH AHOY!

I completely agree with your assessment of Belle's makeup in the first scene.  Her hair and makeup was not aided by the low-cut dress and choker combo, which made think she'd fit in at Al Swearengen's place on Deadwood.  Compare the horror of her appearance with the  tasteful and lovely Frances O'Connor, who actually looked younger than her onscreen daughter.

 

I also just want to say that I love your mention of 80's blush application, Debbie Gibson and especially, Sassy.  I was a subscriber to Sassy in the 80's!  Hadn't thought of it in years.  :-)

I apologize if we're not allowed to comment about these write-ups in here, but I just had to give my two cents.

 

Am I the only one confused about the recap style? Do they rank characters solely on how cute they looked in an outfit? Or do they rank based on how ridiculously awful their storyline is? Because in what world is Belle considered the best character in this episode or Robin Hood ranked ahead of Hook?

 

(P.S. Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate reading the write-ups! Even if I don't necessarily agree with some of the analysis...)

Totally agree.  I don't get it at all.  Plus I don't seem to share a lot of the views of the recapper...  

Poor Belle, yet another victim of the memory wipe.  I hate those memory losses and restorations as much as the heart-rippings, and almost as much as the Emma character assassination.  And in this episode there were three, right?  Belle's, the entire kingdom of Arendelle regarding the missing sisters, and Emma's of the Dairy Queen months.  Really, really ludicrous.  I like deranged DQ a lot, but have to say the motivation for her whole plan is pretty weak.  What are the three of them going to do when everyone else is gone?  Book club?  Magic competitions?  Boring.  Plus, I am a little distracted by the immobility of Elizabeth Mitchell's upper lip.  Otherwise, perfect ice queen and good villain.

So, was Belle's memory actually wiped on purpose?  Is that what you mean?  I assumed it was some kind of PTSD.