S08.E10: In The Forest Of The Night

[Tara Ariano]

Huge forests grow up overnight around the world and begin to overwhelm the Earth.

[AudienceofOne]

It's quite a skill for a writer to come up with something that's nonsensical, ponderous, annoying, self-indulgent and mind-numbingly boring.

 

I think I fell asleep halfway through. If I never have to see another Coal Hill school student it will be too soon.

Edited October 26, 2014 by AudienceofOne

[ottoDbusdriver]

That was stupid -- and boring !!!  I was bored out of my tree.  @AudienceofOne has it right -- enough of the Coal Hill students already.

 

And all the new trees mysteriously and magically disappeared at the end, but existing trees remained the same as if nothing had happened at all -- how convenient.  Did the Nelson statue right itself as well ?  And then the nonsense with Maeve's sister reappearing.  And when did Maeve drop those coloring books in the TARDIS.

 

That was the most useless and needless insertion of wolves into a plot since the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow'.

 

Didn't recognize the guy that wrote this (Frank Cottrell Boyce), but he should go back to writing for Coronation Street because sci-fi is not his forté.

 

ETA: I get why part of the episode title was called "In the Forest", but what did "of the Night" have to do with anything ?

Edited October 26, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[elle]

That was the most useless and needless insertion of wolves into a plot since the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow'.

At least in the movie, they did have an earlier scene explaining from where the wolves were - they had escaped from the zoo. 

 

Oops...see comment below.

Edited October 26, 2014 by elle

[Anisky]

This episode wasn't worth the time it would take to write even just the biggest things wrong with it. SIGH.

[ottoDbusdriver]

At least in the movie, they did have an earlier scene explaining from where the wolves were - they had escaped from the zoo.

 

The doctor casually mentioned the new growth of trees breached the wolf pens at the local zoo (sure it did) -- where's the closest zoo to Trafalgar Square that has wolves and tigers ?

 

All the time spent with Maeve in that scene where the camera pans left and right to the wolf eyes in the underbrush and the fence that had gaps that those wolves could have easily walked stright through was such a complete waste of time.  If the wolves were so scared of the tiger, why did take the time to track Maeve ?  Were they bored from being chased by the tiger ?

Edited October 26, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[truther]

On the bright side, at least the Moon stayed in one piece. 

[Lantern7]

I saw the episode more "wonky" and less "bad." I feel Capaldi has found his groove as the Doctor, even as he's surrounded by kiddies. I didn't think it was that bad.

[miles2go]

I'm generally a sucker for shows with ecological messages, but this was pretty lame.  

If wolves and a tiger escaped from the zoo, then why not deer, elephants, chimpanzees, and assorted other critters?  The whole zoo could have been rampaging through that new forest -- now that might have been fun.

[ketose]

The worst part of the episode is that I knew that trees were going to save the Earth as soon as I saw the coronal mass ejection. It took the Doctor until the end of the episode to do the same. Even if the explanation makes no sense, I want the Doctor to have the semblance of being smarter than I am.

 

Now that the finale begins, we can see that Clara has gone mad and everything that happened before will be retconned into the Missy story line (emphasis on conned). I wish we could have had this stupid finale story first and had a season of the Doctor with a new companion having interesting and fun adventures instead.

[benteen]

I saw the episode more "wonky" and less "bad." I feel Capaldi has found his groove as the Doctor, even as he's surrounded by kiddies. I didn't think it was that bad.

 

I feel the same.  The whole forest invasion was a great idea and Capaldi was very good.  He had some good lines, like the turning trees into furniture one.  But I'll be very happy when the Clara the Part-Time Companion Era is over and she can take Danny the Anti-Companion with her.  I feel like all the time spent on her has prevented us from really getting to know this Doctor.

Edited October 26, 2014 by benteen

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Magic trees.

However I did like how when the Doctor wanted to take them all on the TARDIS they all just wanted to go home

[benteen]

I thought the Doctor's line with Clara summed up things nicely "I just told you a giant solar flare is about to destroy your world and all you're worried about is a row with your boyfriend?"

 

That's great that you want to see things more clearly in front of you, Danny.  Just you and Clara do it on another show, all right?

[elle]

 

That was the most useless and needless insertion of wolves into a plot since the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow'.

At least in the movie, they did have an earlier scene explaining from where the wolves were - they had escaped from the zoo.

Oops.  I wasn't thinking that there was a zoo nearby.

 

I'm generally a sucker for shows with ecological messages, but this was pretty lame.  

If wolves and a tiger escaped from the zoo, then why not deer, elephants, chimpanzees, and assorted other critters?  The whole zoo could have been rampaging through that new forest -- now that might have been fun.

Agreed.  If there had been a zoo nearby, there should have been many more lost animals.

 

 

 

Did the Nelson statue right itself as well ?

And fix the broken arm.

 

 

 

And then the nonsense with Maeve's sister reappearing

That tops the mystery of what was under the pink blanket in "Listen".  Did she bring her back just as Amy brought back the whole universe?

 

Forget all the Doctor/Clara/Danny nonsense, for me, the absolute worst was Danny chasing off the tiger with a flashlight!  I don't usually yell at the tv, but my shout brought my husband into the room to see what I was watching.

 

But what was galling was Clara saying she didn't "want to be the last of her kind".  Red flag meet bull, bull meet red flag!

Edited October 26, 2014 by elle

[GenieinTX]

I was totally bored through the whole thing.  Just like this whole season.  Remember when DW made you feel things?  The only thing I feel is disgust with Clara about how she lies to Danny and treats him like he doesn't matter at all.  She lies to him like it's nothing now.  I know that is a character arch or something, but I never liked her anyway so I just don't care.

 

I miss episodes that made you happy or sad.  Not just a big ole meh.

[futurechemist]

This felt like a rehash of the moon episode to me.  Crisis that threatened to destroy Earth? Check. Humanity acting reasonably and defensively (nuke moon, burn down forests)? Check.  Annoying children companions?  Check.  Turning out that doing nothing will magically fix the problem?  Check.

[Mr. Simpatico]

 But I'll be very happy when the Clara the Part-Time Companion Era is over and she can take Danny the Anti-Companion with her.  

That's a great description. I miss the days of Turlough the conflicted assassin and Tegan, who just wanted to go home (but really didn't - until she did and then she left for good without looking back). The days when the Companions played games with the Doctor whether they were on board or not.

 

So this is the second episode in the last four where Clara and a Coal Hill kid(s) has to make a world wide declaration/request to everyone on Earth not to be selfish and "do the right thing". Don't harm the moon! It's a baby! Don't kill the trees! They are doing this to protect us (just take our word on it!). Yeah. The Doctor, as we have seen during Moffat's reign alone, has a personal line to UNIT (which is supposed to represent the UN) and is regarded as a legend there. That would have been far simpler way of stopping tree killing than tapping everyone's cell phones (and what if they don't have phones or don't have one on them?) and of course letting a child doing the explanation. I don't ask for much reality (I like the last 2 eps fine) but just a bit of common sense.

 

Are all Coal Hill kids troubled and/or obnoxious? And of course we have spent an entire season at Coal Hill and his students with nary a Susan, Ian (who is technically Clara and Danny's boss, no?) or Barbara. And we can't say no the Doctor never looks back when he's at the school where it all started and he name-drops Moffat creation River Song (who never met 12) in the same episode.

 

What was the missing sister plotline all about, anybody? Did she runaway? Was she abducted? Are we still feel good about someone barely mentioned and then we see peeking through vanishing trees in the last few seconds of the show? It seemed liked a plotline that was originally important in the first draft of the script, highly edited to nothing until non-understandable remnants remained throughout Maeve's backstory.

[elle]

 

And we can't say no the Doctor never looks back when he's at the school where it all started and he name-drops Moffat creation River Song (who never met 12) in the same episode.

It feels as if it was done with no sentiment, no feeling or even memory at all on the part of the Doctor. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

This felt like a rehash of the moon episode to me.  Crisis that threatened to destroy Earth? Check. Humanity acting reasonably and defensively (nuke moon, burn down forests)? Check.  Annoying children companions?  Check.  Turning out that doing nothing will magically fix the problem?  Check.

 

I'm still kind of baffled how the oceans and seas were covered in trees.  How exactly ?  Were mile high trees growing from the seabeds ?  Considering that 2/3 of the planet is covered by water -- and what about the polar areas where trees can't grow ?

 

And wasn't the missing sister covered by a hydrangea bush that mysteriously vaporized -- even though it looked like it belonged where it was ?

Edited October 26, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Tickletock]

 

And when did Maeve drop those coloring books in the TARDIS.

 

Maeve didn't. Clara left the books there by accident on a previous excursion with the Doctor. It was explained in the episode as how Danny learned she had been off with the Doctor again without telling him.

 

 

where's the closest zoo to Trafalgar Square that has wolves and tigers ?

 

London Zoo in Regents Park, about two miles away, certainly has tigers. I'm not sure about wolves. I know they have them at Whipsnade, the "country" arm of the zoo. Perhaps they were visiting.

[ketose]

I'm still kind of baffled how the oceans and seas were covered in trees.  How exactly ?  Were mile high trees growing from the seabeds ?  Considering that 2/3 of the planet is covered by water -- and what about the polar areas where trees can't grow ?

 

And wasn't the missing sister covered by a hydrangea bush that mysteriously vaporized -- even though it looked like it belonged where it was ?

Are you dense? They're MAGIC TREES. They can do anything. Obviously, they found the sister who was probably abducted and magically transported her in a bush shuttle. It's all very reasonable if you've had a recent blow to the head.

 

Magic under the earth is beginning to make me think about Season 4 of Torchwood. Anything that makes me think of Season 4 Torchwood is automatically bad.

[tankgirl73]

And when did Maeve drop those coloring books in the TARDIS.

 

Beaten to it -- Clara left her marking there.  But what confuses me is that there was a big deal made about Maeve's picture showing today's date.  But she left the marking there last week.  Which presumably means that Maeve wrote in the date of the event she was drawing, not the date she drew it which is what they presumably were supposed to do.  And convenient that hers was at the top of the pile.  Wouldn't they have wondered what happened to their homework books if they'd been left in the Tardis a week ago?

 

That was the most useless and needless insertion of wolves into a plot since the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow'.

 

I felt it was supposed to be referencing Little Red Riding Hood -- she was wearing a red hooded jacket.  There was a significant mention of how humanity turns its fear of these overnight forests into fairy stories, so that was related to that.  But, yeah, kind of a blunt insertion.

 

ETA: I get why part of the episode title was called "In the Forest", but what did "of the Night" have to do with anything ?

It's a famous poem:

 

Tiger, tiger burning bright

In the forest of the night

What immortal hand or eye

Could forge thy fearful symmetry

 

Blake?  Maybe?  Some romantic poet hopped up on opium, at any rate.

 

Anyway, so the title is referencing a line in the poem "The Tiger", so they inserted a tiger into the middle of the episode for no real reason at all.

 

Annabelle.  WTF.

 

What *were* those little glowy things?  Did they make the trees grow?  How does increasing gravity make them glow and be in pain?  And I couldn't understand half of what they were saying -- usually I can get it all, I know some folks complain about the thickness of Capaldi's accent or the music overpowering the dialogue but I've not had that problem.  But I really couldn't make out most of the glowy things' mumbling.  Something about having always been here, that's it.  

 

Who did put the instruction to Maeve to find the Doctor?  The glowy things said it wasn't them.

 

How did Annabelle disappearing trigger Maeve's reception of the thoughts?  

 

Where was everybody else?  Maeve's mother and the fire team were the only people out and about?  Wouldn't there have been *thousands* of people trying to get to work or to their loved ones or just checking it all out or trying to chop it down?  Where were all the buildings?  I don't know London like the back of my hand, but it seemed that the forests were covering open streets, with an occasional street sign here and there -- but while we did see Maeve's house and the museum building, there were no other building shown in downtown London.  Downtown London (or downtown anywhere) wouldn't look like a huge forest.  It would be a bunch of small copses in between the buildings.

 

I didn't have a problem with trees on the water, in fact I appreciated that they took the trouble to show that there were indeed trees on the oceans because if they were only on land the shield thing wouldn't work.  It looked like it wasn't just trees, but undergrowth vegetation too (otherwise, duh, they'd have been walking on concrete and asphalt and not a dirt forest floor), so a thick tangled mat of floating underbrush could conceivably create a 'floor' for the ocean trees.

 

Which, of course, would choke out sunlight and oxygen from the marine life, but whatever.

 

So the trees were making an oxygen shield high in the atmosphere, pumping out tons of extra oxygen.  Which must be made from photosynthesis, using up carbon dioxide.  Nifty way to fix climate change overnight!

 

So why did the trees have flowers and nuts at the same time?

 

And the trees magically disappearing -- well they seemed to be made of the glowy things?  Maybe?  I dunno.   They're not supposed to glow unless the Doctor is hurting them with gravity or whatever.  Anyway, I hope they also magically repaired all the damage that the roots caused, digging through all that concrete and asphalt like it certainly must have.

 

After Nelson fell (why did he fall anyway?), the kids and Pink came out of the Tardis, coughing, and it looked like there was dust or smoke coming out of the Tardis door.  Why?  Nelson didn't fall in the Tardis.

 

Argh.  I thought Capaldi was great, and I liked the little bit at the beginning where Clara said "he's just pretending not to be interested, he'll be brilliant in a second... and yup, there it is."  Because that's totally true.  And I liked some of the cinematography -- the view of the Doctor from Maeve's perspective, standing tall and freakish over her... the view of his finger pointing at her... a bit surrealist and cool.  But everything else really kind of sucked.  

[benteen]

That's a great description. I miss the days of Turlough the conflicted assassin and Tegan, who just wanted to go home (but really didn't - until she did and then she left for good without looking back). The days when the Companions played games with the Doctor whether they were on board or not.

 

So this is the second episode in the last four where Clara and a Coal Hill kid(s) has to make a world wide declaration/request to everyone on Earth not to be selfish and "do the right thing". Don't harm the moon! It's a baby! Don't kill the trees! They are doing this to protect us (just take our word on it!). Yeah. The Doctor, as we have seen during Moffat's reign alone, has a personal line to UNIT (which is supposed to represent the UN) and is regarded as a legend there. That would have been far simpler way of stopping tree killing than tapping everyone's cell phones (and what if they don't have phones or don't have one on them?) and of course letting a child doing the explanation. I don't ask for much reality (I like the last 2 eps fine) but just a bit of common sense.

 

Are all Coal Hill kids troubled and/or obnoxious? And of course we have spent an entire season at Coal Hill and his students with nary a Susan, Ian (who is technically Clara and Danny's boss, no?) or Barbara. And we can't say no the Doctor never looks back when he's at the school where it all started and he name-drops Moffat creation River Song (who never met 12) in the same episode.

 

What was the missing sister plotline all about, anybody? Did she runaway? Was she abducted? Are we still feel good about someone barely mentioned and then we see peeking through vanishing trees in the last few seconds of the show? It seemed liked a plotline that was originally important in the first draft of the script, highly edited to nothing until non-understandable remnants remained throughout Maeve's backstory.

 

Funny you should mention Turlough and Tegan.  I just watched their respective final episodes this past week and enjoyed both of them.

 

The use of Coal Hill is driving me nuts.  As pointed out, Coal Hill literally represents ground zero for the start of the Doctor's career traveling through space and time with companions.  If you're going to use Coal Hill so prominently, then you have to make some acknowledgement of its important to the Doctor.  Otherwise, it's just any old school.  That's what Coal Hill has been used for...as a generic school with no importance to the Doctor.

[Dust Bunny]

Where were all the people? This episode reminds me what I miss from the RTD days (well, one thing among many). RTD showed a sense of scale and scope. We saw people standing on roofs across the world. We saw people from different locations on Earth reacting to being surrounded by planets. 

 

Even with the moon episode, it all seems so isolated to Clara or her students. This is the episode that finally made me over "The Clara Show", sometimes featuring The Doctor.

 

I'm really missing the team-effort of 10's Children of Time. And even the tag-team of Amy and Rory. 

[ketose]

What *were* those little glowy things?  Did they make the trees grow?  How does increasing gravity make them glow and be in pain?  And I couldn't understand half of what they were saying -- usually I can get it all, I know some folks complain about the thickness of Capaldi's accent or the music overpowering the dialogue but I've not had that problem.  But I really couldn't make out most of the glowy things' mumbling.  Something about having always been here, that's it.  

 

Who did put the instruction to Maeve to find the Doctor?  The glowy things said it wasn't them.

 

How did Annabelle disappearing trigger Maeve's reception of the thoughts?  

 

Where was everybody else?  Maeve's mother and the fire team were the only people out and about?  Wouldn't there have been *thousands* of people trying to get to work or to their loved ones or just checking it all out or trying to chop it down?  Where were all the buildings?  I don't know London like the back of my hand, but it seemed that the forests were covering open streets, with an occasional street sign here and there -- but while we did see Maeve's house and the museum building, there were no other building shown in downtown London.  Downtown London (or downtown anywhere) wouldn't look like a huge forest.  It would be a bunch of small copses in between the buildings.

 

I didn't have a problem with trees on the water, in fact I appreciated that they took the trouble to show that there were indeed trees on the oceans because if they were only on land the shield thing wouldn't work.  It looked like it wasn't just trees, but undergrowth vegetation too (otherwise, duh, they'd have been walking on concrete and asphalt and not a dirt forest floor), so a thick tangled mat of floating underbrush could conceivably create a 'floor' for the ocean trees.

 

Which, of course, would choke out sunlight and oxygen from the marine life, but whatever.

 

So the trees were making an oxygen shield high in the atmosphere, pumping out tons of extra oxygen.  Which must be made from photosynthesis, using up carbon dioxide.  Nifty way to fix climate change overnight!

 

So why did the trees have flowers and nuts at the same time?

 

And the trees magically disappearing -- well they seemed to be made of the glowy things?  Maybe?  I dunno.   They're not supposed to glow unless the Doctor is hurting them with gravity or whatever.  Anyway, I hope they also magically repaired all the damage that the roots caused, digging through all that concrete and asphalt like it certainly must have.

 

After Nelson fell (why did he fall anyway?), the kids and Pink came out of the Tardis, coughing, and it looked like there was dust or smoke coming out of the Tardis door.  Why?  Nelson didn't fall in the Tardis.

 

Argh.  I thought Capaldi was great, and I liked the little bit at the beginning where Clara said "he's just pretending not to be interested, he'll be brilliant in a second... and yup, there it is."  Because that's totally true.  And I liked some of the cinematography -- the view of the Doctor from Maeve's perspective, standing tall and freakish over her... the view of his finger pointing at her... a bit surrealist and cool.  But everything else really kind of sucked.  

I still don't know what the glowy things were, but the Doctor was changing the gravity to keep them from flying away. Of course, a SONIC device couldn't do that and if the gravity were that high, they would have been on the ground.

 

I assume Missy was handing out the Doctor's contact info again.

 

The Doctor said that people who lost someone are more prone to be looking for something, anything.

 

Trees can only sequester carbon dioxide. Once they dissolved (or burned or decayed) the CO2 would be back in the atmosphere. Then again, if the trees made a layer of oxygen to protect the planet, the atmosphere would blow up. Besides the fact that we already have a protective shield of oxygen over the earth generally referred to as the Ozone Layer.

[Maelstrom]

Didn't think this one was so bad. Then again, my sole criteria is Clara not eating the show and the Doctor getting to be the star. On those counts, I thought this episode did respectably enough, at least compared to other episodes this season. YMMV, of course. So I guess what I'm saying is that, at this point in the season, my standards are extremely low.

 

Still waiting for Clara and her annoying life and annoying boyfriend to go away and never come back. Doesn't say much for them that I liked the kids more than those two, since I'm generally not a fan of twee children inserted into tv shows. Though I did think Maeve was somewhat interesting.

 

I bet the set decorators had fun sticking random street signs and city landmarks into whatever forest they shot it.

 

Perhaps most interesting fact of the night came for me during a commercial, when I learned there's a toy company that makes plushie Adipose and Daleks. Plushie Adipose make sense (and look rather cuddly), but plushie Daleks? That's just wrong!

 

ETA - Great points, Dust Bunny - especially about RTD always showing how the latest catastrophe affected everyone on earth, not just the show's Chosen Girl.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Maelstrom

[benteen]

Where were all the people? This episode reminds me what I miss from the RTD days (well, one thing among many). RTD showed a sense of scale and scope. We saw people standing on roofs across the world. We saw people from different locations on Earth reacting to being surrounded by planets. 

 

Even with the moon episode, it all seems so isolated to Clara or her students. This is the episode that finally made me over "The Clara Show", sometimes featuring The Doctor.

 

I'm really missing the team-effort of 10's Children of Time. And even the tag-team of Amy and Rory. 

 

Yeah, those kids did nothing except have no imagination at all.

[AudienceofOne]

I'm still kind of baffled how the oceans and seas were covered in trees

 

 

I know! They just represented the Earth, but green. It made no fucking sense. 70% of the planet is water!

 

How did Annabelle disappearing trigger Maeve's reception of the thoughts?

 

 

Because!

 

So why did the trees have flowers and nuts at the same time?

 

 

Because!

 

After Nelson fell (why did he fall anyway?), the kids and Pink came out of the Tardis, coughing, and it looked like there was dust or smoke coming out of the Tardis door.  Why?  Nelson didn't fall in the Tardis.

 

 

Because!

 

And the trees magically disappearing -- well they seemed to be made of the glowy things?  Maybe?  I dunno

 

 

And the missing sister was in the neighbour's annoying hydrangea bush the entire time. You know. Because!

 

Are you dense? They're MAGIC TREES. They can do anything. Obviously, they found the sister who was probably abducted and magically transported her in a bush shuttle. It's all very reasonable if you've had a recent blow to the head.

 

I WTFd at last week's episode. This was just an exhausted eye roll.

 

I think the thing I found most annoying was that this whole interconnected "trees are sentient creatures" Gaia bullshit is the same kind of hippy crap that says if a traumatised girl starts hearing voices she shouldn't be put on medication because the "universe" is "talking to her". It's the kind of pseudoscientific psychobabble bullshit that does actual environmentalism no favours. Because the trees do keep us alive and we do need then and deforestation is a big part of what's going to kill us. But not because trees are magical and alive and wondrous and filled with weird alien fireflies but because that's how ecosystems evolve and we're a part of it. This is the one situation where Doctor Who needs to be Doctor Who and deliver us all some much-needed science.

 

Funny you should mention Turlough and Tegan.  I just watched their respective final episodes this past week and enjoyed both of them.

 

 

I LOVED Turlough. I always thought I was the only one.

[random chance]

Magic under the earth is beginning to make me think about Season 4 of Torchwood. Anything that makes me think of Season 4 Torchwood is automatically bad.

Dude, I could not agree more.

In previous Moffat seasons things would make sense while I was watching the show, but the logic would evaporate about ten minutes after it was over. Now, it's not even making sense while it's in progress. And for some reason, this season I always feel vaguely patronized. I can't really explain why exactly, but I feel like I'm being talked down to. Things that are probably meant to be uplifting just come off as a lecture. "Fear less, trust more." Weren't we told just a few weeks ago that fear is a good thing?

Anyway this one was another snooze and I am not excited about what's left of this dreary season.

[ganesh]

That's great that you want to see things more clearly in front of you, Danny.  Just you and Clara do it on another show, all right?

 

I have to agree. Danny's all like, "no I don't want to go see a solar flare. Because I was a soldier." WTF? She's not asking him to go back in time and duel Richard III ffs. I can't imagine not taking the opportunity. 

 

It's a famous poem:

 

It's apparently the only poem ever because it's the only one tv ever uses, I swear.

 

I actually thought the Doctor was pretty good interacting with everyone. I did like, "Ooooh, I'm Doctor idiot!" 

 

I have no idea who Missy is and I'm already tired of her. This is the problem with making the show So Big. This is the second time the Earth has been at stake, and this Missy seems to me lurking everywhere. The problem with being Big all the time is that you don't give the show time to breathe. 

[Mr. Simpatico]

This is the one situation where Doctor Who needs to be Doctor Who and deliver us all some much-needed science.

 

I'm reminded that Doctor Who was actually a show that started to introduce REAL history/science to kids. And now we have magic all the time and "just because" or"timey-wimey" explanations for everything.

 

I LOVED Turlough. I always thought I was the only one.

 

Since Moffat seems to have created Twelve and his behavior as a sort of redo/"take that" of the Sixth Doctor, it would be interesting if he could create a Turlough like character  - an alien male companion originally sent to kill the Doctor who becomes his boon companion. It would break the constant stream in NuWho of young-ish (I consider Donna young-ish) English-born female companions.

[Llywela]

Well, most of my points have already been made. As a run-around, this was middling, I suppose, but the cons definitely outweigh the pros.

 

The episode broke my suspension of disbelief early on and never got over that. That was meant to be London in an emergency? And the group with the Doctor plus Maeve's mother were the only people moving around? Over 8million people and they all decided to stay at home instead of going out to see the mysterious magical trees? No one else had family they were worried about and wanted to look for?

 

Magical trees growing overnight to protect earth and disappeared children who magically reappear as if nothing happened...this was pure fairytale, like the Amy Pond era used to be. I prefer it when Doctor Who at least pretends to be science fiction. I also quite like it when the internal logic can be maintained throughout an entire episode, which this didn't.

 

And I haven't even started on the characters yet. Nobody reacted like a real person would. Clara and Danny believed that the world was about to be incinerated but had the opportunity to save the children whose safety they were responsible for...but decided instead that the children would be better off burning to death than surviving in the TARDIS and being sad about everyone else? Seriously? Saving the human race and starting again is too much like hard work, so we'd rather die? What happened to that indomitable spirit of survival that Tom Baker used to wax lyrical about?

 

So Danny scared a tiger away with a handheld torch? After taking a group of schoolchildren to within 10 feet of it? And Clara's reaction was 'what a hero, you saved us' instead of 'what were you thinking, bringing those children into such danger?'

 

All the characterisation here was determined by plot requirement, rather than how anyone, least of all these characters, would actually react.

 

This season has felt like the most enormous waste of time. And the worst thing is that most of the stories would have been okay, on their own, but being bent to fit Clara's seasonal storyline has twisted them out of shape so horribly. Neither the season nor the characters have had room to breathe, which they have desperately needed. The new Doctor has been sidelined in his own show - I think Capaldi is great, he's really started to come into his own at last over the last few episodes, but it's far too late.

 

On the other hand, at least watching this episode made sense of that time I wandered past the museum at lunch and saw a film crew setting up a small jungle of potted plants around the doors...

Edited October 26, 2014 by Llywela

[mac123x]

Eh.  I liked the Doctor.  The rest of the cast can fuck off.  All of them.  Stupid nonsensical plot, magical reset button at the end. 

 

Who did put the instruction to Maeve to find the Doctor?  The glowy things said it wasn't them.

 

Maeve said she thought it was "Miss" and looked at Clara.  I'm pretty sure she's providing this season's version of "The only water in the forest is the river"; it's a cryptic misunderstood statement that everyone in the audience figures out immediately.  "Miss" = "Missy" = the woman who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number = Clara's puppetmaster.

[wayne67]

Well I stopped watching this show about 3 episodes ago and have been reading the forums just to see if I missed anything. So far I'm sticking with the plan to maybe catch up on this season after the new season has started and maybe it might capture some of that old Dr Who magic again. I doubt I'll even  miss much if I start the new season not watching this season as it sounds like it's all pointless filler and for the last 3 seasons the overal plot arc conclusion has had little relevance to anything else.

[MadMouse]

Was this written to be a companion piece to Kill the Moon? Because it failed just like that episode. First an abortion subtext and now one about not taking medication for mental illness. All we need is an anti vaccine one to complete the trifecta of stupidity. Oh another moral dilemma where the response is rational but its treated like a blood thirsty choice. Never mind the fact that Clara took sole responsibility for a group of children and condemned them to death. But that's okay for whatever reason. And come on wolves in the episode and not one little reference to Bad Wolf? 

 

What's so frustrating about this series is it had all the makings of being the best since four but they've wasted it. Two great leads, none of the baggage from previous series and some new writers. Instead its fallen into the same rut as series six and seven. Inconsistent characterization, fairy tale endings, rushed romance and screwing with DW history for no reason. 

[miles2go]

I think the thing I found most annoying was that this whole interconnected "trees are sentient creatures" Gaia bullshit is the same kind of hippy crap that says if a traumatised girl starts hearing voices she shouldn't be put on medication because the "universe" is "talking to her". It's the kind of pseudoscientific psychobabble bullshit that does actual environmentalism no favours. Because the trees do keep us alive and we do need then and deforestation is a big part of what's going to kill us. But not because trees are magical and alive and wondrous and filled with weird alien fireflies but because that's how ecosystems evolve and we're a part of it. This is the one situation where Doctor Who needs to be Doctor Who and deliver us all some much-needed science.

 

 

That's quite a statement, and I can see you feel very strongly about this matter.

 

Now, this really isn't the proper venue for a current affairs or social issues discussion, but I feel a need to respond.  Many of us believe the Gaia concept to be perfectly valid; to my mind, it's a spiritual issue as well as a environmental one and hardly a threat to science.  There's no need to be throwing around words like "bullshit" and "crap".  I don't think I'm a hippie -- at least I haven't worn any love beads in a few decades -- I've never hugged a tree, but I do think they're "alive and wondrous".  It's too bad if you think that's silly.

 

Getting back on topic --

 

 It was a pretty lame episode.  It was attempting to use fairy tale/fantasy imagery to get across it's environmental message, which in itself is perfectly fine.  Unfortunately, they handled it badly, and that bit at the end when the missing sister just pops up was ridiculous.  

 

I was okay with the Clara-Danny romance towards the beginning of the season, but now it's getting tiresome.  Also getting tired of the school and the students.  

 

Guess I'm just getting tired of the whole season, even though I really like Capaldi as the Doctor.

 

 

 

 

[romantic idiot]

Magic trees.

However I did like how when the Doctor wanted to take them all on the TARDIS they all just wanted to go home

i didn't. It's ridiculous. These are children - where's the sense of wonder that children bring with them? Can you imagine your children just giving up and going home and not wanting to go up into space?

 

I thought the Doctor's line with Clara summed up things nicely "I just told you a giant solar flare is about to destroy your world and all you're worried about is a row with your boyfriend?"

 

That's great that you want to see things more clearly in front of you, Danny.  Just you and Clara do it on another show, all right?

This so much. WTF? Danny and Clara make things so mundane. This made me splutter. There's a lot to be said for celebrating, but these are educators for christ's sake. 

 

I have to agree. Danny's all like, "no I don't want to go see a solar flare. Because I was a soldier." WTF? She's not asking him to go back in time and duel Richard III ffs. I can't imagine not taking the opportunity. 

Seriously. He was a soldier so he's doesn't want to go into space and check out a cool solar flare. In a wondrous spaceship? There's no danger involved even. This is doing a disservice to soldiers everywhere - and I guess we now know why DW is suddenly holding soldiers in contempt - because the writers do. 

 

And I haven't even started on the characters yet. Nobody reacted like a real person would. Clara and Danny believed that the world was about to be incinerated but had the opportunity to save the children whose safety they were responsible for...but decided instead that the children would be better off burning to death than surviving in the TARDIS and being sad about everyone else? Seriously? Saving the human race and starting again is too much like hard work, so we'd rather die? What happened to that indomitable spirit of survival that Tom Baker used to wax lyrical about?

 

This is so much. Let's not save the children because they'll always want their mommies and daddies? So children from the Titanic who were saved shouldn't have been, right? Or any big disaster, really. And orphans never lead productive lives? 

 

Of course, maybe she didn't want humanity to be re-seeded (re-founded?) by this particular group children - that I can buy. But seriously let humanity go silently into the night because the children might miss their parents. 

[Writing Wrongs]

They keep pulling me in with possibly interesting episodes that just turn to crap.

 

So everybody just gets to hang out in the Tardis now? Annoying kids.

 

.... "The Clara Show", sometimes featuring The Doctor.

Sad, but true. It makes me miss Amy & Rory. And I got sick of them, too.

[tankgirl73]

Trees can only sequester carbon dioxide. Once they dissolved (or burned or decayed) the CO2 would be back in the atmosphere. Then again, if the trees made a layer of oxygen to protect the planet, the atmosphere would blow up.

 

 

Well, no.  They do more than sequester CO2.  Where does the oxygen they make come from?  Trees respire, they breathe, but the opposite of animals.  We inhale oxygen and convert it into CO2 which we exhale through our mouths and noses.  Trees inhale CO2 which they convert to oxygen which they exhale through their leaves.  The Doctor specifically said that this super-forest was deliberately making a huge amount of extra oxygen, way more that trees normally do.  So even if trees normally do not use up all the CO2 when making oxygen and keep some sequestered, *these* trees weren't doing that -- they were deliberately making as much oxygen as they possibly could, so why would they hold back and reserve any CO2?

 

The solar flare interacting with the oxygen cushion would definitely burn, though not necessarily explode.  The idea was that the extra layer of oxygen would provide the fuel source for the burn, so that by the time the oxygen was used up, the flare would have died off, and thus it wouldn't reach the 'normal' atmosphere.  The normal ozone layer wasn't thick enough to absorb the entire flare.  This particular bit was at least reasonably scientifically logical -- whether or not it would actually work is a valid question, and even the Doctor wasn't sure.  So I'm okay with that part of it.

[wayne67]

The solar flare interacting with the oxygen cushion would definitely burn, though not necessarily explode.  The idea was that the extra layer of oxygen would provide the fuel source for the burn, so that by the time the oxygen was used up, the flare would have died off, and thus it wouldn't reach the 'normal' atmosphere.

 

 

Wouldn't that have burnt up every plane and helicopter and satellite between the sun and the ground ? Typically oxygen provides fuel for fire.. So if they wanted to diminish the effects of the fire wouldn't it have made more sense for the earth to produce massive amounts of CO2 so that the fire would have nothing to burn in the atmosphere. Of course that would have caused a temporary smothering effect too...

 

Not like anything in this show makes sense any more or even tries to . timey wimey nonsense/.

 

Solar flares would pump out massive radiation. space age vault with an actual shield couldn't stop a solar flare so thinking a thicker layer of oxygen would stop it... It's not like they're are trying to keep things consistent within the same season any more.

Edited October 26, 2014 by wayne67

[truther]

It says something about this episode that after all these great comments I can still find something else to bitch about.

 

The cavalier way Clara and Danny kept losing Maeve, almost like it was one of those funny things that happens to people who are dating.  You count the kids!  No, you count the kids!  And then the way Clara kept having to be reminded that she was responsible for these students of hers and couldn't just up and wander off to do something about trees or something.  It means she's a lousy teacher (and, frankly, human being).  Which once again makes no sense. 

 

I also want to second (or third) the comments upthread about the audio.  My eye rolls and sighs might have contributed, but I definitely couldn't follow everything they were saying. 

 

I'm honestly at the point where I don't even care about what comes next.  It'll be something stupid, I know that, and frankly I don't need the hassle.

[Suzysite]

 

Guess I'm just getting tired of the whole season, even though I really like Capaldi as the Doctor.

See, I don't even like Capaldi as the Doctor.  He sucks the fun out of every episode.  I just can't get on board with his custy old man who hates everyone personality. This whole season has been the opposite of enjoyable.  I'm actually hoping Capaldi regenerates into someone likeable.

[benteen]

I have to agree. Danny's all like, "no I don't want to go see a solar flare. Because I was a soldier." WTF? She's not asking him to go back in time and duel Richard III ffs. I can't imagine not taking the opportunity. 

 

It's apparently the only poem ever because it's the only one tv ever uses, I swear.

 

I actually thought the Doctor was pretty good interacting with everyone. I did like, "Ooooh, I'm Doctor idiot!" 

 

I have no idea who Missy is and I'm already tired of her. This is the problem with making the show So Big. This is the second time the Earth has been at stake, and this Missy seems to me lurking everywhere. The problem with being Big all the time is that you don't give the show time to breathe. 

 

This season seems to be making the case for the companions to "grow up" and move on from the Doctor.  Why?  I agree there comes a time when a companion should move on but why is this a theme of the season?  It goes against what traveling with the Doctor actually is.  It doesn't help matters that Clara's life is so BORING on Earth and her boyfriend just confirmed he's an unimaginative bore too. 

[Primetimer]

It's the giant arboreal airbag against the giant egg-moon.

Read the story

[tv echo]

I"m with you guys - this episode was both annoying and boring.

 

What's with all the kids in this season's episodes?  Are they trying to attract/keep young viewers - perhaps to offset the older Doctor?  That red-haired girl (Ruby) was really irritating and the child actress playing her was not very good.  The child actress playing Maeve (little red riding hood) was better but her character made no sense whatsover.  And the missing sister suddenly reappears - WTF?!

I'm so over Clara and Danny, and their couple problems.

 

So the Doctor leaves Earth to its fate, then figures it out... he doesn't have to do anything at all because nothing bad is going to happen due to the magical trees.  Okay.

 

The writer was trying for allegory and some sort of message, but the whole thing just fell flat.

[patchwork]

I like the idea of this one but the execution of was simply dull.

 

The very best I can say for it is that the Doctor's character wasn't sacrificed to prop up Clara's. She showed herself to be a pretty crappy teacher, girlfriend and human being, 'oh no let's not save the human race they'll miss their mummy and daddy too much!' I've never liked Danny and this episode really didn't do him any favours.

[Notwisconsin]

This and the moon thing have been the worst episodes in YEARS. I think that Capaldi is great though.

[Llywela]

This season seems to be making the case for the companions to "grow up" and move on from the Doctor.  Why?  I agree there comes a time when a companion should move on but why is this a theme of the season?  It goes against what traveling with the Doctor actually is.  It doesn't help matters that Clara's life is so BORING on Earth and her boyfriend just confirmed he's an unimaginative bore too. 

Yes. Indeed. Companions have always 'grown up' and moved on from the Doctor - in fact, before the modern series, that was the norm. They'd travel for a time, but then it would be time to move onto the next phase of their lives and they'd go, and it was a bit sad in the way that it's always sad when a friend moves away or you drift apart, but it was just a normal part of life in the way that it is a normal part of life. New Who has always made a big song and dance about companion departures, has always made them terrible and tragic in a way they really don't need to be, and I understand why, but we're at the point now where an entire season can be overshadowed by the build-up to a departure and I find that stifling.

[dmmetler]

What does Year 8 mean in British schools? Based on Harry Potter, it seems like years start numbering when you enter a school, so I wouldn't think there would be a Y8 in any school, and those kids weren't old enough to be 8th graders in US terms. 

 

FWIW, my 9 yr old really enjoyed this episode, and also Kill the Moon, so maybe the goal IS to return Dr. Who to kids...by boring the adults.

[Llywela]

What does Year 8 mean in British schools? Based on Harry Potter, it seems like years start numbering when you enter a school, so I wouldn't think there would be a Y8 in any school, and those kids weren't old enough to be 8th graders in US terms.

Year 8 would be 2nd year in high school, so aged 12-13 - some of these kids looked a little young, but they're at an age where they can look wildly different, some hit puberty early and others late.