S05.E01: No Sanctuary

[NoWillToResist]

 

And this episode makes me wonder how much of Tyrese's supposed acceptance of Carol's actions has to do with his recognition that they all have some pretty awful stuff just below the surface, waiting to be exposed.

 

I think that Tyrese's forgiveness of Carol is less about "well, we are all terrible underneath" and more about the fact that Carol is not a bad person. Back in the prison, he identified that she was a compassionate soul. He spent time with her around the kids and saw that she cared a hell of a lot. Carol is not malicious. While he won't ever be able to forget what she did, I think he can come to a place of understanding, ESPECIALLY after all the Lizzie stuff that happened. Even in this episode, he cringed away from killing walkers and a man who was a threat to them. I think he has a MUCH better understanding now of how one sometimes has to get one's hands dirty to protect themselves and the ones they love. There is evil out there and pacifism will likely get you and your loved ones killed.

 

I'm glad that Carol has shifted from someone who would sit in the back of the room, refuse to participate in the group's discussion of what to do about problem x, and then critizice the decision to someone who is very active in trying to find a solution and then enact it, even if it's difficult or unpalatable.

 

While I also wondered whether Tyreese did kill ballcap guy, considering the beating he was laying down, I think he probably caved the dude's head in with his bare fists. And I suspect he wouldn't want anyone to see that he was capable of that. That probably put the whole Carol thing in an even better perspective for him. He didn't WANT to kill the guy, but he didn't really have much of a choice. It was him or Judith.

 

In light of the kill scene he left outside, I can't help but feel that Tyreese almost gets into a zone or fugue state and becomes a very efficient murderous force. Not surprising that he's been so averse to letting that side out.

 

Hopefully having his sister around and the gang back together will be help him even out again emotionally.

[Caelicola]

 And In watching the reruns this weekend, I noticed that when Carol first reunited with Tyrese and the girls and he asked her something like "where were you?" she did not rat Rick out, she simply said he went back to camp and she stayed to keep looking for things. I loved that. 

In all fairness, Tyreese's natural response to Carol telling him "Rick banished me" would have been "why?", and at that time Carol was nowhere near ready to tell him what she had done. So, yeah, I do believe part of it was not wanting to rat Rick out, but a significant part was also not putting herself in the position of having to choose between outright lying to him or risking confessing, in a very vulnerable situation (on the road, on their own, with three kids to take care of), without any certainty of how he would have reacted.

 

To keep it more current; I think Tyreese has forgiven her, but at the same time has difficulty seeing her as he did before, which is completely understandable in my opinion. Without going into the specifics of whether she was justified or not in doing so, she did kill someone he cared about, and that can't NOT change the way you see someone. He didn't deny being her friend when asked, he just kept quiet, because I think the honest answer would have been a facebook-esque "it's complicated", and why expose sensitive, raw nerves to an enemy (who also happens to be a cannibal) explaining what had happened? I think he cares about her, as you still care about family no matter what, but I also think it's gonna take him a little time to be able to look at her and not see Karen's burnt corpse, let alone completely trust her again -because he did completely trust her, she was the one he asked to look after Sasha while he went on the hammer-smashing run for medicines.

I agree though that he's getting there, or at least getting to the point where he could entertain the thought of getting there. And she just saved his sister, which I think is gonna go a long way.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Caelicola

[RedheadZombie]

I agree. I do wonder if the show will have the guts to show one of the "good" guys, one of the guys we have been with since the beginning, slipping so far down that slope and turning "bad".

 

Response moved to Shane's thread.

Edited October 14, 2014 by RedheadZombie

[SometimesBites]

Good point about the waste of meat. Maybe they learned how to cure the meat - you know, make salami or cured cold cuts out of the excess??

During the business-as-usual banter when our boys were kneeling at the trough, Gareth mentioned "the drying room." So, yeah, this may how they were preserving their long pork.

[RedheadZombie]

 Which reminds me, in watching the reruns during the weekend marathon I couldn't help but notice Daryl's hair in his scene with Rick outside the car the morning after their reunion. It was completely and rather unnaturally-looking black but he had an obvious grey patch in his beard! Cracked me up. And about the length of Daryl's hair and it always in his eyes and probably distracting to his aim so why doesn't he hack it off .... To me it fits his character traits. For someone who is closed-off & guarded and uncomfortable with feelings, hair is a wonderful thing to hide behind, both literally and psychologically. I don't think we'll see a short-haired Daryl until he's undergone total transformation mentally into being more sure of himself & more comfortable showing emotions. 

 

I love your theory and it makes perfect sense, but if you go back and look, Daryl's hair has become progressively longer and darker with each season.  His hair was very short and sandy blond when he was first seen.  I'm not crazy about it and I think it's for the teen fangirls who moon over him.  I think Norman/production think it makes him look younger - it doesn't.  Season two Daryl looks ten years younger than our current one.

 

I thought about this too. We definitely heard female screams last year. But the one box car they happened to open contained this psycho dude, so then they were probably like, "Fuck That". I mean, really, that's a hard call. Run around Terminus, opening up box cars, to free everyone? Or just get our group and GTFO? I hate to say it, but I'd probably choose the latter. It would just be too risky to stick around much longer. 

 

I think this was just sloppy writing.  They wanted last season's finale to be chilling when we hear so many people screaming from the cattle cars.  In the season opener, they wanted to show that our gang is not so hardened as to walk away from others held captive.  The problem is they didn't want to add more characters to the cast.  Solution - they rescued someone, but he was a monster who was immediately eaten.  Result - our gang looks good for attempting to save others, but no added redshirts to have to write for.

[kikismom]

 

 

It amuses me sometimes to imagine that some of these characters, like Carol and Daryl, have been quietly hooking up offscreen for awhile and it's just not something anyone considers worth mentioning since they all have to live on top of each other the way they do.  Or maybe not.  But I've always found it a little odd that with this many healthy adults together that only Glenn and Maggie apparently ever feel any kind of desire or maybe just want to be held.  It's just sometimes fun to think about.

 

 

I KNOW!

During the prison episodes, I kept waiting for one of those pesky kids like Lizzie to go snooping around to see why funny noises were coming out of the back of the library stacks or something:  "Listen! I think there are walkers in the shower room! I hear moaning!"

"Oooops,"

 

 

 If I recall correctly the only other person Rick told was Maggie.

I always think that scene is (unintentionally?) hilarious---because Maggie asks where is Carol and Rick says she killed Karen and David (look of disbelief and shock from Maggie) then he tells how he found her a car and gave her a bottle of water and some food and she's outta here.

Then he goes "Do you think I was right to do it?" (and I'm like oh here we go with a relapse of his dither disease; is he going to do a Randall and bring Carol back, then take her out again, then take her back, and out, etc.?)

Maggie nods kind of stunned-like...and Rick says "Good! There's no room for doubt in this world".

hahahahahaha!

[AngelaHunter]

But I've always found it a little odd that with this many healthy adults together that only Glenn and Maggie apparently ever feel any kind of desire or maybe just want to be held.

 

I know of a blog you may like. Heh...

 

Actually, that's something I've thought about before. I think there would have been quite a bit of after-dark tippy-toeing around the prison. As you say, not just because anyone is filled with lust or madly in love, but for the contact and comfort of having someone's arms around them and feeling a warm, living body next to them - to remind themselves that THEY are still alive. Well, all that adrenaline has to go someplace too!  Gotta be honest and say I know for sure I'd be making some midnight visits.

[Constantinople]

It amuses me sometimes to imagine that some of these characters, like Carol and Daryl, have been quietly hooking up offscreen for awhile and it's just not something anyone considers worth mentioning since they all have to live on top of each other the way they do.  Or maybe not.  But I've always found it a little odd that with this many healthy adults together that only Glenn and Maggie apparently ever feel any kind of desire or maybe just want to be held.

Carol & Daryl's couple name would be Caryl, or Darol, so that could never happen.

But Glen & Maggie are Gaggie, which is perfect.

[Armchair Critic]

Shane could be an ass, but I didn't blame Andrea when she jumped him that time because of the adrenaline from learning to shoot. They have to stink pretty bad, but I would have made a move on Rick by now if I was there...

[nodorothyparker]

My husband, who spent some time traveling with carnivals as a teen and later hitchhiking around the continent, assures me that you do reach a point if you go without showering long enough that the body odor sort of evens out and you don't really notice it anymore.  Especially if everyone around you is at or near the same level of unkemptness.  I'll take his word for it because I rather enjoy bathing regularly, which he tells me is just one of many reasons I'd never survive longterm in the zombie apocalypse.

[mandolin]

Several have mentioned that the Termites were eating infected meat.  When Rick & Co arrived at Terminus, weren't they given plates of food to eat? Did they not eat the infected meat as well?  Or are we to believe that the food they were given was regular non-human meat? (What a weird sentence to type.)  I would assume one would recognize human flesh as a taste that one is not accustomed to.  Or maybe it really does taste like chicken.

It also always stands out to me in that scene, the girl wearing Daryl's poncho looks drugged. Rocking back and forth. I wonder if they drugged the meat, whatever it was.

 

Also, I saw the New York Comic Con panel...Daryl's hair is pitch black. Silly.

[Bruinsfan]

I would assume one would recognize human flesh as a taste that one is not accustomed to.  Or maybe it really does taste like chicken.

Pork, or so I'm told by a friend who had her gums cauterized. I'm not sure if people would be able to readily tell the difference, assuming the cuts of meat served were made in such a way to avoid any distinguishing features.

[Epeolatrix]

According to chefs hired by the show for a promo stunt to design a hamburger that tasted like human flesh, the winning recipe features minced pork, minced veal and bone marrow, along with 'pockets of fatness'."

 

Edited October 15, 2014 by WertherEffekt

[GreyBunny]

For anyone interested, check out this book: Dinner with a Cannibal: The Complete History of Mankind's Oldest Taboo.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dinner-Cannibal-Complete-History-Mankinds/dp/1595800301

 

It's a conversational and witty anthropological history of human cannibalism.  Survival and ritual cannibalism are talked about; pathological cannibalism (such as Jeffrey Dahmer) is not covered. 

 

In the book it's said that human muscle tastes more like beef than pork.  It was described as pork because the tribes that practiced it lived where they had wild boar but no cattle, so pig was the closest approximation they could come up with.

The possible Andrea easter egg upthread?  I'd laugh if it was.  Even with Michonne sitting right there to help her she still couldn't shoot straight. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Wilowy]

I hope it IS an Andrea EE, because how cool. But... her inner shirt is all wrong. The stripe pattern is different. :/

[lulee]

Has anyone ever questioned Eugene's credentials?  What did he do prior to the ZA?  If he really has the cure, more power to him.  But I seriously doubt it at the moment.

It's conveniently impossible for anyone to check Eugene's credentials and CV in the ZA.

[TexasChic]

 

The first was the man whose face is being eaten - he didn't scream/thrash/gurgle, etc.  Second, the woman being eaten alive by three walkers was barely thrashing, and making a scream I would compare to accidentally spilling Kool-Aid on the carpet.

I thought the same thing, especially with the woman, why wasn't she shrieking?

[diebartdie]

I was much more bothered by the dude that ended up having his face eaten, why was he wriggling, on his back away from the flaming zed? Why not just stand up and walk away? THAT was just silly.

[Mu Shu]

Pork, or so I'm told by a friend who had her gums cauterized. I'm not sure if people would be able to readily tell the difference, assuming the cuts of meat served were made in such a way to avoid any distinguishing features.

Why were her gums cauterized?   Did she accidentally eat people meat and want to burn the shame away?   

 

I wonder if there was a factory churning out head cheese and spam.   And the candle room-Surely rendering Eugene down would have kept it lit for a minute.

 

Speaking of Eugene, I thought he was going to go all Mc Guyver with that penny he picked up and muttered something about using it as a battery or somesuch.   The fact that he did jack shit confirms my suspicion that he's just an asocial geek pretending to know things and stuff.    He has no cure, and who maintains his mullet?  Rosita the bad line reader?

 

I was so afraid that damn termite was going to stab Bob through the eye.   I have grown inexplicably attached to Bob and hope he's around for a good long time. 

 

[lulee]

Why were her gums cauterized?   Did she accidentally eat people meat and want to burn the shame away?   

I want to just say how much I love that a poster named "Mu Shu" cracked me up about a person saying people meat tasted like pork.

[Raven1707]

 

When Rick & Co arrived at Terminus, weren't they given plates of food to eat? Did they not eat the infected meat as well?  Or are we to believe that the food they were given was regular non-human meat?

 

Things went south very quickly when Rick recognized the orange backpack, Daryl's poncho, and Hershel's watch -- which was when he grabbed Alex and put a gun to his head -- so no, none of the group had time to eat anything.

 

As for Glenn's group, Abraham mentions in the voice overs at the beginning of the show that "They seemed nice enough, but I was ready to go. I mean, we just got here, but damn, it was time to go. When I told them about D.C., a wink and a nod from the head asshole-in-charge, they pulled their guns and it was right back to our regularly-scheduled shitstorm."

[diebartdie]

I think I remember they gave Carl a plate but at the same time Rick sees all the signs of his other people, freeks out, smacks the plate out of Carls hand and grabs Alex.

[diebartdie]

Eugene claimed he worked with the government on weaponizing infectious diseases. Where did he do that, nobody knows!

[Seawolff]

Eugene claimed he worked with the government on weaponizing infectious diseases. Where did he do that, nobody knows!

SOOOOOOOooo... He's gotta be the guy who invented and/or inadvertently set the virus loose! Abraham and Rosita know this and that's why they don't want people asking too many questions..... If he really does know the answer it should be no problem to articulate it to others. He should try. If they don't understand, well, they will at least be satisfied that they were given an answer rather than be baffled by bullshit.

Edited because I can't leave well enough alone.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Seawolff

[Cheetosandchoc]

I think they will find Gareth with the katana, take it from him by force and kill him with it.

Nope. I think Rick is going to kill him with the red handled machete, exactly like he said he would.

[Madding crowd]

So happy my favorite show is back but I always wish the premieres were 2 hours long. I loved everything except the trough scene since I was counting in my head 3, 2, 1 when it was Glen's turn at the bat (so to speak). I do have to say that since I'm a vegetarian since age 8, all this talk of human meat makes me a bit queasy.

 

Would have preferred if the Termites were just some crazy cult without the back story. People who have been raped and tortured have been known to turn on their attackers, but to murder and eat little kids, no way. I also don't believe they were ever hungry enough to make them lure people to their place. Also don't know why they were keeping the teddy bears; to remind themselves the kids were bad somehow? 

 

Little Judith was adorable and I don't have a problem with a baby in the group. Real groups would include babies, kids, old people etc. Obviously many of the weaker would be eaten early on, but those within a group might survive. I also think there would still be many more good people than bad. Of course the world is chaos and people have lost their loved ones, but they still have many homes and buildings to take shelter in, canned food would still be available as well as animals to hunt, and people will also strive for the normal versus the abnormal when given a chance. 

 

Agree that Carol was awesome and loved her reunion with Daryl. On a funny note, My older sister just moved into a 55 and older building and the residents all call it Terminus!

[lawless]

Wanted to add that the words that come to mind when thinking of Gareth are not merely hipster cannibal cult-leader, he's also an officious little prick.  For all of these reasons, he needs to die, a lot, soon.

 

I too loved the moment when Daryl just leaned his head into Carol, and it's interesting, because there's so much going on there.  Relief that she is alive, relief that she is back with them, relief that she saved them from an incredible horror, and also relief that because she saved them from the incredible horror there probably doesn't need to be any painful discussion about should she be banished or not for the Karen and David thing.  Win on all accounts.  She's one of the few people he probably would even consider seeking comfort from, and given the horror show he, Rick, Bob, and Glen just witnessed, he needs it.  Hearing about it is one thing, being kept in the box car is another, but seeing what those four guys saw and almost experiencing it would give a person PTSD for, like ever.  Fortunately Carol showed up in just the right circumstances that enabled Daryl to lean in for the hug he undoubtedly badly needed for reasons other than just being glad to see her.  I hope Sasha hugs Bob, and I imagine Rick will definitely need hugs from Carl and Judith, and Glen from Maggie.  I need a hug after that, jeebus!

[Armchair Critic]

"They seemed nice enough, but I was ready to go. I mean, we just got here, but damn, it was time to go. When I told them about D.C., a wink and a nod from the head asshole-in-charge, they pulled their guns and it was right back to our regularly-scheduled shitstorm."

 

When Abraham says that who is he talking about? Is he talking about Rick's group or people he ran across before them?

[GreyBunny]

SOOOOOOOooo... He's gotta be the guy who invented and/or inadvertently set the virus loose! Abraham and Rosita know this and that's why they don't want people asking too many questions..... If he really does know the answer it should be no problem to articulate it to others. He should try. If they don't understand, well, they will at least be satisfied that they were given an answer rather than be baffled by bullshit.

Edited because I can't leave well enough alone.

 

If he really did work at a high-security lab it was probably as a janitor or security guard.  One day while sweeping up, he knocked over the wrong beaker and...oops...hello ZA.

[CletusMusashi]

I like the basic idea that he was some kind of lab flunkie. He certainly wasn't a janitor or security guard, though. Those positions require actual skills.

[Too Late Kev]

When Abraham says that who is he talking about? Is he talking about Rick's group or people he ran across before them?

He's talking about the Termites. Remember when Abraham, Rosita, and Mullet-Man, after having found Maggie, Bob, and Sasha, met back up with Tara and Glenn in the tunnel? A, R, and Mullet were supposed to go on to Washington, but Mullet said he wanted to check out Terminus first; maybe they could find people there to join them for the Washington trip. Sasha was interested in continuing on to Washington after Terminus too, I think.

 

So he got to Terminus but pretty much wanted to move on right away. They mentioned moving on to Washington, and boom. Shitstorm.

[MrHufflepuff]

Which would truly be a living hell.

 

I imagine that someone was going around thinking "Well, my family is dead or turned into zombies, I smell like crap, and I've had to go along with these freaking cannibals just to stay alive.  But at least I don't have to spend my Friday nights filling out those goddamn TPS reports anymore."  And then Gareth shows up with his notebook talking about Six Sigma and value propositions and how he wants to focus-group the signs leading up to Terminus and getting on people for not wearing enough flair.  Quit ruining the Zombie Apocalypse, Gareth!

[NurseGiGi]

In regards to Mullet-head.....I refuse to believe that someone that is intelligent enough to be a scientist would walk around with a mullet.

[GaT]

Eugene claimed he worked with the government on weaponizing infectious diseases. Where did he do that, nobody knows!

 

 

SOOOOOOOooo... He's gotta be the guy who invented and/or inadvertently set the virus loose! Abraham and Rosita know this and that's why they don't want people asking too many questions..... If he really does know the answer it should be no problem to articulate it to others. He should try. If they don't understand, well, they will at least be satisfied that they were given an answer rather than be baffled by bullshit.

 

My first thought was that his blood has the antidote in it & that's why they have to get him to DC alive & why telling people what the cure is won't do any good.

[ViewerPDX]

 

I'm sad to admit that I cringe and shake my head a little whenever that little ray of Sunshine, Judith, is onscreen.  I have to imagine that for Rick, seeing her was pure joy for a moment, followed by icy fear in his heart.  To have lost her and had to keep going--excruciating. To think of how they will keep her safe in such a world where walkers are the least of the threat--also excruciating.  How on earth the gang and/or the writers will keep this little cherub alive is beyond me.   This isn't "Everybody Loves Raymond" where the kids can just disappear upstairs and reappear once a season when the storyline demands...

I'm praying that they're not going for the Baby Jeedith angle.

Edited October 15, 2014 by ViewerPDX

[melanie]

This is my first time posting on a Walking Dead forum.  I don't know how much we are supposed to discuss the comics here.  I don't want to spoil them for anyone.  I have seen other mentions made of them -- just wondering if there are any parameters.  

I am curious why Bob, Daryl, Glenn, and Rick were the first ones chosen for butchering.  Any theory I come up with has flaws in it.  I would love to hear some other ideas.  

 

I have a theory about the type of people who inhabited Terminus.  They tried to be good as they claimed -- because they believed it benefited them to be good.  There are many people like that in our society right now who do good things, but not for the right reason. It benefits them in some way.  It may be as simple as getting a pat on the back, people constantly telling you what a kind and caring person you are, holding you up as an example to others.  They aren't really "good" people, they want to be perceived as good.  They believed that they could accomplish this in the ZA and it didn't work out.  That course of action did not elicit the response they wanted, so it went away very quickly.  If they had been doing good for the sake of doing good, they may have become more cautious, but they never would have sunk to the level of luring innocent people into their compound for the purpose of killing and consuming them.  Goodness is not just the things you do -- it is who you are.  We get very confused about that, but there are many evil people who have done good things.  

 

The trauma that they suffered did not change them necessarily, it merely changed their tactics.  

 

On a side note, I am so glad to have found this wonderful forum.  Hope to join in your conversations throughout the season -- many excellent insights!  

Edited October 15, 2014 by melanie

[GreyBunny]

Hee, sorry. Between this show and Hannibal, I've gotten a little morbid when it comes to cannibalism.

Heh.  I'm pretty much completely desensitized to it.  Cannibalism doesn't shock me in the least and hasn't for a while.  When the promos said the first six minutes of this episode were brutal and shocking, I watched and thought, "Nah, I've seen and read much worse."  It was still an excellent opener, though.

Edited October 15, 2014 by GreyBunny

[moi]

Several people questioned why so many were prepped for slaughter (8) and found it unrealistic. I'd like to point out that captives' peak weight is the day they are taken; they will never be fed enough to maintain body mass, and will provide less meat the longer they are kept alive. If the meat can be dried, why not process as fast as you can manage? That would also be a rationale for taking Rick first (apart from plot necessity, obvs), the skinny ones with no fat reserves will begin to metabolize their muscle mass faster than the bulky ones with higher fat content.

[Muffyn]

Eugene claimed he worked with the government on weaponizing infectious diseases. Where did he do that, nobody knows!

Chris Hardwick often goes on about his hatred of LinkedIn.  In the zombie apocalypse, he'll wish he had LinkedIn so he could check out BS stories from wannabe scientists with mullets.  

[RedheadZombie]

This is my first time posting on a Walking Dead forum.  I don't know how much we are supposed to discuss the comics here.  I don't want to spoil them for anyone.  I have seen other mentions made of them -- just wondering if there are any parameters.  

 

 

I believe that most comic info is considered to be spoilers.   I have seen generalized comments made though.  There is a thread on page two that is specific to the comics.

[kikismom]

 I hope Sasha hugs Bob

How much do you hope; enough to

check the official promo for episode 5.2, in which Bob and Sasha have quite the conversation...and she kisses him!

 

 

This is my first time posting on a Walking Dead forum.  I don't know how much we are supposed to discuss the comics here.  I don't want to spoil them for anyone.  I have seen other mentions made of them -- just wondering if there are any parameters.  

I am curious why Bob, Daryl, Glenn, and Rick were the first ones chosen for butchering.  Any theory I come up with has flaws in it.  I would love to hear some other ideas.  

 

 

On a side note, I am so glad to have found this wonderful forum.  Hope to join in your conversations throughout the season -- many excellent insights!  

Welcome! :-D! Glad you've joined this community. Lots of people from now-defunct TWoP, and everywhere else. We have great debates and try to always be free to have opinions but not devolve into flamewars name-calling crap, it's the best forum really. Try to make sure you're on here live when it's Sunday night; it's a good party.

 

Re: why those 4 guys, I also think about it a lot---here's some feedback from my POV only:

1. They were the most aggressive in resisting; need to take out potential troublemakers first?
2.  Obviously males get taken (first at least, instead of women/girls); taking Rick Daryl Glenn Bob leaves only Carl Eugene and Abraham as males in the boxcar. Carl is a kid, and referred to as a kid by Gareth during their capture --Rick also made what may be a boo-boo in saying "my son" during the line-up at the boxcar steps giving Gareth the info he could have used to control Rick), Eugene and Abraham with the mullet and the Clairol Ravishing Redlocks look like they might be attached (not that there's anything wrong with that!)
3. They were simply the ones nearest the door! I heard Gareth say something like : "so what have we got here 4 from A and four from D, good!" which just sounds like the flunkies were ordered to go bring in 8, no more specifics.  And we must keep in mind that they've (the Termites) been doing this for some time now...I'm thinking experience would teach that the men most likely to defend the women and the weaker captives will be the men nearest the door in front of the more vulnerable individuals.

Edited October 15, 2014 by kikismom

[ikmccall]

Nope. I think Rick is going to kill him with the red handled machete, exactly like he said he would.

I stand corrected. I forgot Rick said that.

[Oinky Boinky]

 

 

It has been my opinion that people are merely extreme versions of themselves in this Zombie Apocalypse. I noticed that Gimple said that Rick is not too far from Shane, yet I could never see Rick trying to rape a woman like Shane did.

 

Wait a minute, wait a minute When did Shane try to 'rape' a woman?  He had sex with Lori and Andrea.  Unless it was bicycle girl I missed this. 

 

Sorry to go back so many pages but I was away and catching up.

[kj4ever]

Wait a minute, wait a minute When did Shane try to 'rape' a woman?  He had sex with Lori and Andrea.  Unless it was bicycle girl I missed this. 

 

Sorry to go back so many pages but I was away and catching up.

At the CDC he assaulted  Lori (even shoved his hand between her legs) and she got away by scratching the shit out of him.

[gaPeach]

Ok I am on the train that Carol and well our group have not lost their humanity or are on any slippery slope by 1. killing Termites 2. letting them turn and 3. shooting them in the leg and letting Walkers come in and chow down on them.  Nope not one bite. 

 

When Mary, I think that was head Termite's name, tried to explain to Carol all the bad things that happened to them so they had to become what they have become was total BS!  Do the Termites think THEY are the only ones that suffered through this AZ?  What happened to them was awful but the defeated the bad guys and got their Utopia back.  So what do they do? Keep advertising their "safe haven" to draw people in..........innocent people that did not terrorize them but are only trying to survive just like them to drug, rob and kill them to eat.  And the cold assed way they did it was beyond cruel. 

 

I think Rick, Glenn and Bob seeing it first hand just how cold and indifferent they were to the people they were killing for food in front of them was very telling and there is no redemption for them.  Not with other humans at least.  God will forgive you if you truly mean it but as far as other humans being able to move pass it, I think not.  The Termites had a well oil machine going as far as efficiently killing, draining and processing human meat so they can live.  I still cannot wrap my head around how they went from nice people to victims to cannibals.  If I had been in Terminus when it all went down I would have left or died trying. 

 

So no, I find nothing in common between our group and the termites.  Nothing.

 

And I say let them die, turn, get eaten and killed.....every single one of them.  They knew what they were doing and there is no justification for it what so ever.

 

Carol you totally kick ass girl

 

Oh and I have not seen it mentioned but I found it funny that Rick told Carol when he cut her loose that he did not trust her around his children because of what she did back at the prison.  But she was the one the protected Judith and got her back to him in one piece.  Well along with Tyrese of course.  Just thought it was very poetic.  Full circle kind of stuff.

[diebartdie]

It doesn't really make sense that anyone in the ZA would go cannibal, unless they were completely dissociated and thought themselves a zombie too. There would just be too many other, better options out there! Still stockpiles of canned food, lakes and streams full of fish, deer, squirrels, birds, rabbits, cows that got out of enclosures, horses too, growing your own food, all of that so easy, I just dont see how an entire community could look at the zombies and think, "heck yeah, eating humans is the way to go!"

[JackONeill]

 

I'm still bitter that they withheld the Carol banishment reveal for two episodes so we could sit through the trials and travails of the Gov./Philip/Brian because it robbed it of all its immediacy and potential power.  Then Daryl had all of about two minutes to digest what Rick was telling him before the prison was attacked.  So it's impossible to really know how he might have handled it had there been time for it really sink in and deal with the Tyreese fallout.  Would he have stormed out to go look for her?  I think it's entirely possible.  But we'll never know because of the distraction of a character who should have been killed a half season earlier and his witless followers and their tank.

 

A few of you have pointed this out to me.  I didn't watch the recent set of reruns, so I was relying on a somewhat faulty memory.

 

Yes, Daryl didn't have the time to fully take in what Rick told him about Carol.

 

And yes, I largely blame TPTB because they were so in love with the Governor they had to spoon feed us his story 24-7. Who cared?  But Carol and Daryl -- well, people cared about them.  It was, and still is, a big part of the story.  The Governor was a monumental waste of time.

 

And I now remember Maggie's reaction to Carol's banishment.  It was like, "Yeah, sure, whatever, dude."  It was, if I remember correctly, very noncommittal. 

 

Now, the question is: will it even come up?  I think I saw a lot in the look that Rick and Carol gave one another, and it seemed to say, "Bygones."  I hope so.  Although it was a big event, it should have been dealt with at the time, but we had to spend that time on the Governor.  Now, we need to move ahead.

[PunkyMouse]

Okay so I went back and watched this episode yet again and I must say the zombies just shambling about whilst still a flame really amused me. I'm not sure why, perhaps it's because living human beings would be thrashing about on the ground trying to put themselves out. But here come the zombies, just strolling about with their clothes on fire looking for their next meal.

I think I'm going to have to form a neo-punk band called "The Flaming Zombies". Our first single will be called "Die, Beth, Die!"

[SimoneS]

Wait a minute, wait a minute When did Shane try to 'rape' a woman?  He had sex with Lori and Andrea.  Unless it was bicycle girl I missed this.

 

 

Seriously? Shane attacked and try to rape Lori when they were all at the CDC.

[mightysparrow]

It's taken me a while to post here because I don't know how I feel about this episode.  Reading all the comments saying this is the best episode in the history of television has made it worse because that's not the way I feel about the episode.  I think it was pretty good but I don't think it was great.

 

A lot of it has to do with the fact that I don't care for Carol, never have.  So an episode devoted to the deification of Queen Carol isn't going to be my idea of entertainment.  This episode felt like a huge chunk of fan pandering and made me nervous about the rest of the season.  Is there going to be more of the same?  Obviously this was Carol's 'redemption' episode and tptb were going to stop at nothing to make sure that happened.  But now that Carol is a 'badass', what happens next?  Is she going to hand Michonne the laundry and tell her to get to work?  The prison crew are understandably happy to see her but this Carol isn't the person they knew.  I felt a tiny bit sorry for the shippers (not too sorry because they're killing the show with that stuff) but Daryl looked like he was seeing his mommy after being away at a particularly horrible camp.  No Caryl there.  But when he and Carol sit down and actually talk, Daryl's going to realize that the mother/big sister he knew is gone and the person he embraced is a pretty cold blooded killer.  Daryl might like that and be happy that he won't have to carry her ass any more.  Who knows?

 

I am a bit tired of hearing how Tyreese needs to 'grow a pair'.  While people were running for their lives, he took the time to grab a baby and herd two little girls to safety.  Tyreese doesn't have to prove shit to anyone.  I think Tyreese's reluctance to kill is being blown out of proportion.  He probably should have killed the gum-chewer right away but Tyreese obviously doesn't feel right about killing a helpess person.  That's Carol's job.  And when it came down to it and gum-chewer threatened Judith, Tyreese took care of him with a quickness.  So Tyreese's balls are fine and just where they need to be.

 

Michonne better get her fucking katana back.

 

I didn't miss Beth one tiny bit.

 

I hope that the rest of the season isn't as action oriented.  I'm one of those people who prefers character deveopment and would like to have more of that.

 

 

Carol was supposed to have been killed off during S3.  The creators were going to kill her off on the same episode that Lori dies.  T-Dog ended up dying instead.  Andrew Lincoln (Rick) and Norman (Reedus) argued to spare Carol and so Melissa McBride's job was saved.  Given that Lori died in that episode there was no need to kill either T-Dog or Carol(IMO).

Actually MMB was the one who argued to spare Carol's life not AL or NR.  She's talked them out of killing Carol at least twice now.

Edited October 15, 2014 by mightysparrow