S13.E12: Fashion Week: Who's In & Who's Out

[backgroundnoise]

I didn't think Sean's white thing was streetwear in any way. I thought it was absolute runway, editorial and non-commercial.

 

ITA.  All I kept thinking was how dirty that white was going to get walking around in the dust and soot on the street.

 

Nina said it would be interesting to see what Char could do if she actually had some time to do the work.

 

I saw that as nothing but a fall-back excuse to keep from eliminating her, because her work on the show itself (my opinion) would not qualify her to go forward.  They needed an excuse to keep the Tim Gunn save and Nina provided it.  I could practically see the producers standing behind her making her mouth move. :-).   You'd think fashion professionals would have more pride in their work.  Such lavish praise for Sean's white thing?  Please.  YMMV.

Edited October 10, 2014 by backgroundnoise

[Kromm]

It's kind of hilarious that in a way Korina was totally vindicated by the shit Char produced, while at the same time looking like an even BIGGER idiot for how she's expressed everything. It's like a Win-Win for snarking viewers, and a Lose-Lose for the show.

[meep.meep]

 

Nobody paid a lot of attention to the remake look, but Amanda should be ashamed of her Tarzan and Jane outfit.  That had Halloween costume written all over it.

It was "exposing the family jewels" too short in the back.  When we first see the model in it in the work room, I swear she pushes off like she's wearing ice skates, so I kept imagining it as an ice skating costume.

 

I hated both of Amanda's looks, especially the tent.  But I loved her TH about how to act when you are eliminated, and that Korina wasn't the only one that it ever happened to.

 

Farewell Emily!  At least until you get to show your decoy collection.

[Linderhill]

 

Amanda: I don't care for Amanda's aesthetic, but at least she stays true to it. I wouldn't be caught dead in that street look dress. It looked like something a pregnancy yuppie mom who thinks she's Bohemian would wear. 

I think the judges have been on some serious crack this season.  I haven't understood most of their decisions.   From over praising Sandhya"s gawdawful creations to the inexplicable praising of this horrible "dress/mummu" to Sean's cult/chef attire.  What the ...?  I can't picture anyone in New York wearing either of those outfits.  One is just plain ugly and the other is white.  I'm surprised that no one called Char out on the use of the shiny satin fabric.  Other season's she would have been.  I knew as soon as Emily said she just couldn't spare the thought to do much more with the Sammantha re-do that she'd get dinged.  Bringing back Alexander really didn't do Char much of a favor since neither one of them managed to do away with that unfortunate pouf in the re-make dress.  I love Kini but was worried when he insisted on using denim.  Luckily he was able to overcome that material choice even if he went overboard with his embellishments on the skirt.  

 

I'm still flabbergasted by the over-the-top praise of Amanda and Sean's outfits.  

[sinkwriter]

 

Emily wasted time on the ugly arsed hoodie, ignored the re-make, and that's why she went home.  I like her, but I'm happy with the decision.  She made some poor choices this week and it sunk her.

 

Every time they showed her talking about how she couldn't care less about the re-make and knew she should spend more time on it but couldn't be bothered with it because she was so focused on her streetwear outfit... I kept thinking, yep, that's going to bite you in the ass, Emily.

[sinkwriter]

 

Also, what was very telling to me was the 'golf clap' that Char did when she found out that Korina was to be her assistant.  In no way was that meant to convey gladness or happiness that they were to work together.  It was solely intended to irk Korina even more than she was.

 

I didn't see it that way at all. I saw it more as Char realizing that choosing Korina's outfit had been a bad mistake so her "yay, let's still be friends" clap was her way of trying to keep things light while knowing that the whole situation's a mess. It was the equivalent of gritting your teeth and trying to make the best of it. I saw no intentional irking in Char's clap. She was trying to lighten the mood (and at that point was probably already figuring they'd have to talk it out, like she said in her interview), but Korina didn't budge an inch. There was no talking to Korina. She'd never have listened or conceded anything.

 

 

Korina did not bulk at working with Char until after Char did the sarcastic clapping.

 

Korina was balking the second she walked into the room with all the other ex-designers. Her arms were crossed, her face was angry and resentful and she looked ready to yell at everyone. Char's clapping may not have helped, but Korina was already in full-out "I don't want to be here, fuck you all" mode. It was vibrating off her from the second she walked in the room, before she even knew she'd have to work with Char.

I felt bad for Sean getting stuck with that pink monstrosity. There really wasn't much he could do with it, given how small it was and how ugly that Pepto Bismol Barbie pink was. I think he made the best of it by embracing the insanity of it and going over-the-top with it.

 

That said, I'd be curious to see what Kini would have done with it, had he gotten stuck with it instead. He's pretty clever, what he did with Mitchell's bland red dress was inspired, but would he have been able to find gold in that pink hideousness? I wish we'd gotten to see that.

Edited October 10, 2014 by sinkwriter

[NikSac]

I'm glad the Korinna thing was short.  It was interesting that all the remaining designers seemed to feel so much lighter in spirit with her gone.  Although sometimes I blame editing for how people are portrayed,  this time it seemed the editors didn't have to do much to make her the villian.

 

I agree. It was great seeing them having so much fun, but I kept wondering, was Korina really THAT bad to make them all unhappy? Was that really her, or just a horrible edit?

[Lorimac]

Excuse me, I am still picking my jaw up off the floor. I could understand sending home BOTH Char and Emily, but just Emily?! No...no...no. Well, Sean hit the nail on the head when he said he would to his best in the one hour challenge to help Char defeat Korina because Char was easier to beat in finale.

[NikSac]

I really can't figure out why they keep trying to make Char happen. I like her very much, but her designs range from pedestrian to tacky. On the other hand, I kind of loved Emily's hoodie. I didn't like the outfit underneath as much, but at least it was different. Emily's aufing was apparent from the beginning of the episode, though.

The rest of the designs were meh. I don't have much hope that the fashion week collections will be that great.

I was pleasantly surprised that the Korina drama was kept to a minimum.

 

I was too (re: Korina).  I didn't like her and still don't but I was glad she wasn't on all that much.

 

The hoodie thing bugged me only because the designer talked about wanting to make it from day 1. So make it already! If she couldn't make it 3 weeks ago I don't understand why she can make it now. It's not like it magically fit the challenge.

 

I'm curious to see fashion week but wow, underwhelmed by the contestants at this point.

[RealityGal]

wow, I read the Korina thing completely differently than most people here.

 

Last week the forum was full of complaints dreading the drama of Char and Korina having to work together and how shitty it was for the producers to make that happen. Guess who saved you from that. Korina, and Korina alone.

 

I thought what she did was great. She was 1) Honest about how she felt. Whether it's admirable or not, she was clearly done, completely fried. And she was the only one who wasn't trying to pretend that wasn't the case for the cameras. 2) Understood that her going through the motions was not the best thing for Char. 3) Effectively told the producers to fuck off with their drama creation and refused to be a part of it.

 

Tim lied to her by implying that Char's choice of her look was a compliment in a way that it clearly was not,

 

The redo part of the challenge was mean-spirited. It looked bolted on last minute in the hopes of creating drama. The producers must have been wetting themselves in glee after Char picked Korina's look. After Korina tanked that, none of the designers took the redo seriously, except Kini, who always has extra time and energy and creativity to burn.

 

In my most cynical frame of mind, I don't even think Korina staying would even have been portrayed redemptively I think Char made it to fashion week to give the "redemptive arc" seal of approval on the Tim Gunn save. On the other hand "Korina sabotaged Char and kept her out of fashion week OMG!" would have been so juicy, I can't believe the PR producers wouldn't have gone there.

 

So thanks, Korina, for letting this episode of PR be about the fashion, despite production's best efforts!

 

I think that if Korina stayed, and had behaved positively there would have not been much the producers could have done.  They need to have a narrative for the episode, IMO, they knew they were going to focus on Korina/Char drama, and if Korina wouldn't give them anything to work with (in TH or on the show) then they either need to make the episode about Korina being nice, or even maybe about Char being hurt/mean.

 

In the real world, sometimes you have to work with people you actively dislike.  And you have to put forward your best foot for them, even though you don't like them.  I had to work for a guy when I was in my mid 20's who drove me batty, because he was always loud about his political opinions which I disagreed with (just to give you a flavor, he doesn't think people who don't own property should be allowed to vote), and was always right there on the line of saying something racist.  I mean, right on the line. He never crossed it, but he was right there.  And every conversation we had would be prefaced with his various political commentary, and he would generally talk about it a lot.  But I was working my way through school, and this job was very flexible and paid well so I smiled over my gritted teeth.  People have worked for awful bosses for a period of more than a day and have managed to suck it up.  Sometimes in life, honesty is not the best policy, a la Dave Chapelle's "when keeping it real goes wrong"

 

Her actions on camera mostly made her look bad.  Her ultimate fuck off for the producers would have been to have accepted, kept her head down and did the work.  No negative TH's.  That would have driven the producers nuts....absolutely bonkers.  Because they wanted a "korina is a big bitch" storyline, and they only needed one act from her to achieve that.  With her walking off like that, they were able to use the conversation from the dinner the night before to support that she is a nightmare, they were able to put in other various designer TH after her departure about her being a black hole.  But all of that would have failed if she had simply come to the workroom and behaved even reasonably.  They needed an act from her to center all of that around, and they got her to do it.

 

 

I have a couple of differing opinions regarding this episode.  Regarding Char, I felt that a different side of her was presented in the episode.  First of all, she was so disappointed about the status of her friendship with Korina implies to me that she was just fine with Korina's attitude and views until they were turned on her (Char).  Korina did not just magically turn into a bitter whiner, she was consistent in her personality and views of other (even being mean girl towards Amanda earlier in the season).  From one episode we even saw Char and Korina exchange smirks with each other about Amanda.  So, Char and Korina may have had a common perspective or attitude prior to Korina's comments about Char.  Also, what was very telling to me was the 'golf clap' that Char did when she found out that Korina was to be her assistant.  In no way was that meant to convey gladness or happiness that they were to work together.  It was solely intended to irk Korina even more than she was.  Korina did not bulk at working with Char until after Char did the sarcastic clapping.  

 

I get suspicious of editing when they show designers "exchanging snarky looks" because I think that sort of thing can be edited together.  If there was a single frame of the two of them looking at each other, I think thats real, but one shot of Korina's snarky look, and then a frame of Char's snarky look is too easy to paste together.  And that entire Amanda fight seemed suspicious to me because it wasn't on tape, and it was mostly, as another poster put it "self reported from Amanda" to the cameras, and to Fade, so its hard to know what exactly happened or how bad it was, or who said what, or the tone, or anything.

 

As for the golf clap, I didn't quite see it the same way.  From my perspective the clap looked like she was trying to communicate to Korina that she was still open to working with her without being able to say anything to her.  Both Char and Korina had to know when Tim said that the helper would be paired with the designer that  got their outfit that they were going to be stuck with each other, and Korina's eye rolls and angry looks don't seem much open to interpretation, at least to me.  But I certainly don't think Char was excited to be working with Korina, and I don't think Korina was excited to be working with her.  But I think Korina could have really handed the producers a big bucket of "fuck you" and have helped her own reputation if she had worked with Char.  

 

Knowing that recently eliminated designers often have to help towards the end, Korina should have known that no matter what, there was a good chance she would be helping Char.  I think the producers got lucky that Char chose Korina's outfit, but I think that even if Char hadn't, they would have trotted out the button bag to ensure Korina and Char were together.

 

As far as Korina is concerned, she's just really young, immature and unprofessional. I couldn't really expect her to act any other way given all that, but it's unfortunate that she doesn't have the foresight to see how she's coming across on-camera. I can't imagine anyone wanting to work with her until she grows up a little. That whole thing where she felt too raw to come back so quickly after being aufed wouldn't have happened if she'd been assigned to anyone but Char. Or if she was really feeling that negative about it in general, that conversation should have happened off-camera and they should have pulled her aufed look from the room and put in Anthony's, since he was obviously nearby and able to fill in at the last minute. But oh, that's right, this show is 90% about the drama and 9% about Nina's attitude and 1% about "fashion". I keep forgetting.

 

I don't know, she is almost 30.  I don't know at what age we should expect adult behavior from her?  And the show has no special duty to protect her feelings, if she didn't want to be center to a dramatic situation, she should have stayed home.  But some expectation from her that the show is going to protect her precious feelings seems silly to me.  Her feelings are no more important than any other recently eliminated designer that has to come back and help a contestant.

I thought it looked more like a streetwalker look.

 

 

If anyone wore that walking about New York City, you'd be dragging along every piece of trash on the street with you and soaking up every stinky puddle. Honestly, the only way you could "walk around" with that on is if you don't walk at all and have door to door chauffeur service.

 

See?  Thats the interesting thing about fashion, there is no objective thing that is right.  Its all subjective.  I liked Char's you think it looks like a streetwalker.  I think I've seen streetwalkers, and thats not even in the ballpark.  I can also understand the appeal of Amanda's for someone in New York,  if I saw a young person wearing that I would think "whats going on there?" and not necessarily in a bad way.  I think it could, in the right hands, and with the right person, it could look effortless and interesting. If fashion was only a matter of "how not to get dirty" no one would wear Kini's either, in fact, I think there would be a bigger market for coveralls.  And I don't remember Amanda's hem touching the ground so I think you could navigate a city in it without it getting too dirty, and given the colors I don't see dirt being a huge issue, certainly not any more than any other maxi dress a person would wear.

Edited October 10, 2014 by RealityGal

[Surrealist]

I will never understand why the judges love Amanda so much. I can't think of anyone I know who would ever wear her stuff.

I don't understand it either. People here are talking about producer manipulation with Char and Korina, but Amanda coasts under the radar with her crappy looks.

I, too, don't know anyone who would wear her clothing. If I saw someone wearing her stuff, I'd feel secondhand embarrassment.

She remains true to her aesthetic and that's admirable, but it's unappealing to me.

[NY2TX]

Like others I'm a bit perplexed by the over-the-top praise heaped on Sean's dress.  I liked it, and agree with the more general comments regarding effect, and styling.  But singling it out as among the best ever (or best, or her favorite, I can't recall Nina's exact comment)?  That type of hyperbole rang false.  Perhaps it was a way of elevating Sean as a legitimate contender to Kini, or creating some measure of suspense, since it appears the latter has increasingly distanced himself from the remaining designers.  I also liked Amanda's look, and thought it clearly reflected her aesthetic (something the judges pay particular attention to at this stage of the competition).  Yes, it evoked a familiar silhouette, but dismissing it as a 'Mrs. Roper' re-hash is hardly fair. Whatever you think of the style, it was well done, and moved beautifully on the runway.  I also thought her combination of color was particularly effective.

 

Kini.  Wow.  The fit on that red dress was crazy, but hardly unexpected; IMO he has been the real star this season (umbrella dress bodice, another wow moment).  Not only does his work look effortless, it actually is; his skill is unlike anything we've seen before on this show, and that includes two of my all-time favorites, Christian and Dmitry (and without the requisite drama, or bitchiness).  I should know better than to get too invested in any one contestant, but in this case it's unavoidable.  I would be absolutely stunned if he doesn't come out on top at the finale, all the moreso considering a handful of other recent results.  Comparing one season to another is always a slippery slope, but even thinking about Kini as a potential runner-up, and Anya or Gretchen as winners...I refuse to let myself go there.

[NikSac]

I was hoping Tim would dismiss Korina a bit less politely, given her attitude. It would've cracked me up if he just said "Fine,leave. You're replaceable." But he's too classy for that, and that's why I'm not on TV

 

No, he's not that classy in my opinion... but I am curious as to why he didn't just tell her to bail.

Edited October 10, 2014 by NikSac

[RealityGal]

No, he''s not that classy in my opinion... but I am curious as to why he didn't just tell her to bail.

If anyone is on a redemption arc this season, its Tim Gunn after that UTG debacle.  Him trying to be nice and understanding towards Korina in this episode, IMO was part of his redemption arc.  But he wouldn't have been able to use her for his own gain if she hadn't made it so easy in this episode.

[NikSac]

Really, I wouldn't buy from Korina. I don't know who her customers are, but it's a competition. Show some sportsmanship. You weren't owed anything.

 

Same here!  Not that I'm some rich fashionista or anything but I'd make it a point to NOT buy from her. Every $ adds up.

[Latverian Diplomat]

I think that if Korina stayed, and had behaved positively there would have not been much the producers could have done.  They need to have a narrative for the episode, IMO, they knew they were going to focus on Korina/Char drama, and if Korina wouldn't give them anything to work with (in TH or on the show) then they either need to make the episode about Korina being nice, or even maybe about Char being hurt/mean.

 

Sure, Korina could have frustrated the producers' designs by being a perfect angel, cooperative, enthusiastic, with never the slightest slip, And maybe there would have been no misunderstanding or mis-communication or just honest mistake during the day that production might have been able to spin as something more important andintentional, and not even a microexpression of resentment as Char hacked a design Korina herself liked into the mess that it became.

 

Or Korina could do what she did. 

 

Personally, I like option two for its honesty. I think it also has the advantage of being humanly possible.

 

Again, Korina acted poorly last week, but if you are sick of bullshit drama, the producers who deliberately try to stir this shit up are the real enemy. And Korina totally frustrated them this week, all by herself. I say, brava.

[jette]

I feel for Korina in one aspect only - it had to be tough to hear: Come back to the workroom and help a designer that you don't respect cut up the garment that got you eliminated and redesign it to make it better. None of the other eliminated contestants batted an eye - even Sandhya, which surprised me.

 

Could Char have used any less of that ensemble? You just know Korina has ground her teeth down to nubs because a (tiny) part of her work got Char to Fashion week!

[RealityGal]

Sure, Korina could have frustrated the producers' designs by being a perfect angel, cooperative, enthusiastic, with never the slightest slip, And maybe there would have been no misunderstanding or mis-communication or just honest mistake during the day that production might have been able to spin as something more important andintentional, and not even a microexpression of resentment as Char hacked a design Korina herself liked into the mess that it became.

 

Or Korina could do what she did. 

 

Personally, I like option two for its honesty. I think it also has the advantage of being humanly possible.

 

Again, Korina acted poorly last week, but if you are sick of bullshit drama, the producers who deliberately try to stir this shit up are the real enemy. And Korina totally frustrated them this week, all by herself. I say, brava.

 

But she didn't frustrate them at all, IMO.  They were able to use designer TH, and the conversation at dinner, and her own actions to create the narrative that she is an overall black hole of a personality.  Her own behavior was the center for that.  I think she could have stayed and been reasonable, even if she had shown disappointment.  All she would have had to have done is stay and be cooperative.  I don't think anyone would expect backflips from her, but for her to stay and do her best to be helpful would have been enough.  I don't think the producers could have done much if Korina had said nothing, been helpful, and even had a few awkward looks.  The awkward looks are normally supported by a TH of Korina saying something mean.  If Korina is not giving them a TH, but just random looks, meh.  And everyone's looks were getting hacked to bits, so....suck it up buttercup (to Korina, not to you).  But I also don't think honesty is always the best policy.  I think many times honesty is not the best policy, especially in Korina's position.

Edited October 10, 2014 by RealityGal

[Julia]

I'm not sure I see that the repurposing was such a challenge for any of them. After last year, when Helen pretty much threw out Kate's entire outfit and made a new one with her Mood purchases, it's pretty clear that they don't have to repurpose the garment. Char did roughly the same and didn't get called out on it, so it must be OK. 

[dialyn]

The only way Tim Gunn could redeem himself after the debacle that was "Under the Gunn" is if he admitted he participated in the bad behavior. He wanted Mondo to win (that was very clear) and it was only Heidi's interference that changed the course of his predetermined effort.  In this season of "Project Runway" he has given advice that don't agree with the judges but he has also given advice that would have helped designers had they listened to him. That is the fate of a mentor. He's not really there to help a certain person win (unless that's the role he's chosen to take, which is exactly what happened in "Under the Gunn").  It appears everyone was glad to see Korina leave early (she must have been fun to room with), and everyone seemed genuinely sorry to see Emily go.  As one of the few who actually liked Emily's hoodie (it looked cozy to me), I'm sorry for her exit.  If they kept Char, they certainly could have changed the rules (again) to keep Emily.  I really think a double elimination of Emily and Char would have made sense since they seemed to have the least successful looks overall.  The problem for me is that no one really seems wow worthy.  I like Kini and he produces a product that looks polished, but not really "wow" for the most part (I did like the bottom of the red dress more than most people...it looked like liquid even when it was standing still).  Sean made Heidi's fringe dress that moved so beautifully, but now he just obsesses with fringe and I've had about enough of it (pink fringe on a pink outfit did not make things better this episode, though I agree that given what he had to work with, he made it about as playfully absurd as he could).  I've looked at the photos of the finals runways but I really want to see them in motion before I think too much about them.  Something can look great in a photo, and then look pretty sad when it is in motion.

Edited October 10, 2014 by dialyn

[FormerMod-a1]

But I also don't think honesty is always the best policy.  I think many times honesty is not the best policy, especially in Korina's position.

 

I agree.  And being honest does not mean spewing out every thought and feeling you have at the moment you have them.  I'm not saying that's what she did here, this is just a general observation/opinion.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was surprised that Tim didn't admit to the judges that it was HIS idea that Kini make his outfit more than a simple silhouette underneath the jacket. Kini had a simple outfit ready, and Tim told him to amp it up. After the runway show, the judges were saying that they wished Kini had made the outfit under the jacket more simple.  Oh, Tim.

 

I made this point in another episode!  Tim pisses me off so much!  He tells the judges when a designer ignores his advice and fails!  But he doesn't tell the judges when a designer follows his advice and fails!  Ugh Ugh Ugh Ugh!

 

We don't know that, do we?. We only see the edited clips.  What is said by anyone, including Tim, is only part of what they actually say.

 

I don't believe this excuse for a second.  I've seen way too much evidence to back up my point.  Sorry.  Tim thinks he can do no wrong but his advice is often very contrary to what the judges like.  13 seasons of this.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[dialyn]

 

He tells the judges when a designer ignores his advice and fails!  But he doesn't tell the judges when a designer follows his advice and fails!

We don't know that, do we?. We only see the edited clips.  What is said by anyone, including Tim, is only part of what they actually say.

 

 

I don't believe this excuse for a second.  I've seen way too much evidence to back up my point.  Sorry.  Tim thinks he can do no wrong but his advice is often very contrary to what the judges like.  13 seasons of this.

I didn't say that.  I said we don't see everything, and that includes comments Tim may or may not have said to the judges.  Clearly he has made suggestions to the designers that the judges didn't agree with, but that's to be expected.  He is a mentor, not a mind-reader.

Edited October 10, 2014 by dialyn

[wovenloaf]

Oddly enough I certainly don't blame Korina in a way for not wanting to participate.  She was raw, and probably wouldn't have been much help.  Orange Josh from the All-Stars season 2 had just been eliminated and when he was picked to help for the final three he pleaded his feelings as well.

 

 I don't blame her for not wanting to participate either -- it had only been like a day or two since she got eliminated hadn't it? So, if I were her I wouldn't want to be there as the helper either. I do, however, blame her for how she went about it. The angry pouting and arm-crossing, and then acting like she was just gonna barf if she had to be near Char for another second, seemed so childish. She could have explained her feelings in a far more polite and classy way. Also, I'm not convinced she would have totally walked out if she had gotten paired up with a designer other than Char. I think if she got paired up with Amanda or whoever, she would have just been crabby and stewing, but she would have still done it. 

 

I agree. It was great seeing them having so much fun, but I kept wondering, was Korina really THAT bad to make them all unhappy? Was that really her, or just a horrible edit?

 

I don't know they meant she was necessarily SO terrible in that she was mean to people's faces (except once she was getting eliminated, of course). I took it as more of Korina just had a pretty negative energy about her. It seemed like they felt like she kind of sapped the energy out of a room. I especially got that impression from Kini's comments in his talking head -- he said something about the vibe being so much lighter or something. I've been around people that are just really negative, and it can be super unpleasant to be around, even if they aren't being blatantly rude or mean.

 

 

I didn't really care for Emily's clothes throughout the season, but I do think she was more deserving of the 4th slot than Char was. And Emily seems like she is a genuinely kind person, and she always handles herself in a polite, mature, and classy way, so I like her for that. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

But she didn't frustrate them at all, IMO.  ...  I don't think the producers could have done much if Korina had said nothing, been helpful, and even had a few awkward looks.  

I think you're being a little naive about the power of editing here. The way previews from last week and the nonevent of Korina's walking out milked what little Char/Korina screentime there was demonstrates to me that they would loved to have built the whole episode around that. Instead we got a much better episode that focused much more on the actual designs.

 

In any case, it would have been a miserable experience for both Char and Korina. I don't particularly want to watch someone suffer that way just so the morality play turns out the right way. If you think Korina's a terrible person, fine. Going to fashion week was the only thing that mattered to her, and she didn't get that. Punishment enough. I don't think she should have to prove she's a good person or has learned a lesson by playing along with a script handed to her by people who are hoping she will give in to her worst impulses again with the cameras rolling.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[sinkwriter]

 

I don't think she should have to prove she's a good person or has learned a lesson

 

I don't think she should have to prove she's a good person or has learned a lesson, either. But I do think she could have proven that she was a professional. She didn't do that, and because of it, I'm much less likely to be interested in buying anything she has to offer. 

[terrymct]

I agree.  And being honest does not mean spewing out every thought and feeling you have at the moment you have them.  I'm not saying that's what she did here, this is just a general observation/opinion.

 

To quote a different old saying, discretion is the better part of valor.

 

 I don't blame her for not wanting to participate either -- it had only been like a day or two since she got eliminated hadn't it? So, if I were her I wouldn't want to be there as the helper either. I do, however, blame her for how she went about it. The angry pouting and arm-crossing, and then acting like she was just gonna barf if she had to be near Char for another second, seemed so childish. She could have explained her feelings in a far more polite and classy way. Also, I'm not convinced she would have totally walked out if she had gotten paired up with a designer other than Char. I think if she got paired up with Amanda or whoever, she would have just been crabby and stewing, but she would have still done it. 

 

She could also have said something before the episode was being film, such as when she was first asked.   She was fine enough with participating until she was paired with Char.

[Surrealist]

Kini, or creating some measure of suspense, since it appears the latter has increasingly distanced himself from the remaining designers.

 

I was thinking the same. Kini gets on well with the rest of them, but I feel like he's in his own bubble. I think that's the smartest thing he can do at this point.

[beaker73]

We don't know that, do we?. We only see the edited clips.  What is said by anyone, including Tim, is only part of what they actually say.

 

I didn't say that.  I said we don't see everything, and that includes comments Tim may or may not have said to the judges.  Clearly he has made suggestions to the designers that the judges didn't agree with, but that's to be expected.  He is a mentor, not a mind-reader.

That and no one is forcing these designers to take his advice.  He's offering just that--advice.  Their designs are ultiamtely their responsibility. 

 

ETA:  The way Char came back into the room and broke down crying last week after the runway and Korina's obvious hatred for her last night, I get the feeling that there were lots of ugly things said on the runway last week that we were not privy to. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by beaker73

[Rhondinella]

Ok, so Char has dirty pictures of Tim Gunn with one of the producers, right?  Cause . . . .what?

[Calamity Jane]

Perhaps if Korina had not had to work on the very piece that got her eliminated she could have summoned some strength of character and helped out.  She seemed reluctant from the get-go, but it seemed to me that being asked to dismantle and re-work a design she felt so strongly about was just the last straw.  Yes, designers often are asked back to help, but I don't think it's often been to re-do their own losing design. Usually they are just helping finish someone else's original design. 

 

So, I am the farthest from being an apologist for Korina's heinous behavior last episode, but I can kind of (reluctantly) see why this was a bridge too far for her -- given her it's-never-my-fault nature and how recently the auf had happened, it makes sense that she could not find the inner resources to rise to the occasion.  At this point in her life, she isn't the person who can do it, and that's probably something she needs to ask herself about, and perhaps grow from.  

[panthergirl13]

An all white outfit as street wear? After 10 minutes on the street, it would be un-white.

 

Oh, but see.... that's the THING! It starts out ALL WHITE, but as you walk down the street a taxi drives by and swerves into a mud puddle and splatters you and suddenly you have this BROWN COLOR splayed all over your outfit, and then it's NOT WHITE anymore and...and.... oh wait... :(

[Julia]

Perhaps if Korina had not had to work on the very piece that got her eliminated she could have summoned some strength of character and helped out.  She seemed reluctant from the get-go, but it seemed to me that being asked to dismantle and re-work a design she felt so strongly about was just the last straw.  Yes, designers often are asked back to help, but I don't think it's often been to re-do their own losing design. Usually they are just helping finish someone else's original design.

 

Last season Tim actually teared up when Justin picked the design that got him aufed to redo because it was so damn brave of him. Doing it to five designers this year was cruel.

 

Oh, but see.... that's the THING! It starts out ALL WHITE, but as you walk down the street a taxi drives by and swerves into a mud puddle and splatters you and suddenly you have this BROWN COLOR splayed all over your outfit, and then it's NOT WHITE anymore and...and.... oh wait... :(

I think you've grasped the concept of next year's "Mudway" challenge...

Edited October 10, 2014 by Julia

[backgroundnoise]

I wonder how much the other eliminated designers are sick of hearing about how Korina's elimination was the worst thing that ever happened in the history of the world, according to her.

Edited October 10, 2014 by backgroundnoise

[anonymiss]

I saw that as nothing but a fall-back excuse to keep from eliminating her, because her work on the show itself (my opinion) would not qualify her to go forward.  They needed an excuse to keep the Tim Gunn save and Nina provided it.  I could practically see the producers standing behind her making her mouth move. :-).  

Yes. The Nina Garcia I've watched over the years would have ripped into Char's ridiculous efforts. They were foul in taste and construction while also lacking creativity and design. Nina has unleashed her fury on disasters that were much less offensive than what Char put up as an entry to fashion week. 

 

On the other hand, I easily see what the judges saw in Sean's white ensemble and, to be fair, they don't have much to fawn over this season so it was made more impressive as a result.

Edited October 10, 2014 by anonymiss

[NY2TX]

The few comments about not blaming Korina completely miss the point.  The issue isn't one of blame, or understanding Korina's feelings; participation, in whatever capacity, is a function of her appearance on the show.  Designers aren't sent home subsequent to elimination.  They may no longer be housed with the remaining contestants, but they are still present, and on-call, until filming ends.  Designers are brought back for a myriad of reasons; a Tim Gunn 'save', in the event one or more contestants leave (withdraw or are dismissed) prior to elimination, or to assist the remaining designers during one or more challenges.  Of course her return came closely on the heels of her elimination; episodes are shot back-to-back.   

 

Korina was upset about what transpired.  Clearly she feels she is a better designer than Char, and that her garment/s in this particular episode - whatever their shortcomings - were stronger than what Char sent down the runway.  So what?  There have been more than a few designers eliminated over the years that many feel are stronger, or more skilled than others who remained to sew another day.  Eliminations don't occur in descending order, from worst designer to best until only the cream of the crop remain .  On the other hand, no one believes the designer with the worst garment is necessarily the one always sent packing.  On the whole I think an effort is made to see the strongest designers reach the latter stages of the competition, and finale, but up to that point there are probably a myriad of factors that influence the judges weekly decisions.  Korina's actions give the impression she is a victim of the most egregious injustice in PR history.  Not even close.  Could the decision have gone the other way?  Yes.  Is Korina a vastly superior designer to Char?  Hardly.

 

All designers know exactly what they are signing up for when they agree to appear on the show, including accepting their fate when the judges make the determination their time is up.  Participating in additional episodes, or reunions, when required is also a part of the deal.  And most accept those terms without hesitation.  Each is receiving more exposure than would have ever been possible otherwise, as well as a host of other opportunities.  It is sad that Korina chose to squander all of that by acting like a complete ass.  I feel for her, but don't think immaturity is an excuse for her behavior.  Perhaps she'll be one of those who make a comeback in a future season.  I would be open to seeing a new and improved - and humbler - Korina. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by NY2TX

[carrps]

If Alexander is going to roll his eyes in his talking head that Char of all people was telling him how to sew, he should have damn well made sure he sewed well!  He seemed to have primary responsibility for sewing the black dress and it puckered and poached in the front.  I guess Char should have monitored your sewing quality even more closely!

 

The praise for Sean's look puzzled me exceedingly.  I thought it was ok, but not the second coming of fashion.

 

Nobody paid a lot of attention to the remake look, but Amanda should be ashamed of her Tarzan and Jane outfit.  That had Halloween costume written all over it.

 

I'm glad Char didn't get stuck with sour puss Korina.  Didn't her aufing happen a couple of days before she was brought back to help?  Did she spend every sleepless minute during those few days stewing and steaming over the travesty that had befallen her?  Get over yourself already!

It was more than likely the next day. Could have even been later the same day.

[carrps]

The few comments about not blaming Korina completely miss the point.  The issue isn't one of blame, or understanding Korina's feelings; participation, in whatever capacity, is a function of her appearance on the show.  Designers aren't sent home subsequent to elimination.  They may no longer be housed with the remaining contestants, but they are still present, and on-call, until filming ends.  Designers are brought back for a myriad of reasons; a Tim Gunn 'save', in the event one or more contestants leave (withdraw or are dismissed) prior to elimination, or to assist the remaining designers during one or more challenges.  Of course her return came closely on the heels of her elimination; episodes are shot back-to-back.   

 

Korina was upset about what transpired.  Clearly she feels she is a better designer than Char, and that her garment/s in this particular episode - whatever their shortcomings - were stronger than what Char sent down the runway.  So what?  There have been more than a few designers eliminated over the years that many feel are stronger, or more skilled than others who remained to sew another day.  Eliminations don't occur in descending order, from worst designer to best until only the cream of the crop remain .  On the other hand, no one believes the designer with the worst garment is necessarily the one always sent packing.  On the whole I think an effort is made to see the strongest designers reach the latter stages of the competition, and finale, but up to that point there are probably a myriad of factors that influence the judges weekly decisions.  Korina's actions give the impression she is a victim of the most egregious injustice in PR history.  Not even close.  Could the decision have gone the other way?  Yes.  Is Korina a vastly superior designer to Char?  Hardly.

 

All designers know exactly what they are signing up for when they agree to appear on the show, including accepting their fate when the judges make the determination their time is up.  Participating in additional episodes, or reunions, when required is also a part of the deal.  And most accept those terms without hesitation.  Each is receiving more exposure than would have ever been possible otherwise, as well as a host of other opportunities.  It is sad that Korina chose to squander all of that by acting like a complete ass.  I feel for her, but don't think immaturity is an excuse for her behavior.  Perhaps she'll be one of those who make a comeback in a future season.  I would be open to seeing a new and improved - and humbler - Korina. 

Just saw Tiffani win the Top Chef Duels, and there's someone who has completely redeemed herself. It can be done.

[Calamity Jane]

It was more than likely the next day. Could have even been later the same day.

 

There is some discussion above about the timeline -- at least two nights and a day before.

[MyLisa]

I really, really disliked Sean's street look and just don't understand the praise.  First of all, the top swamped the model and wasn't flattering. at. all.  And 2) didn't Kini do those collar bone slits with his Amercian Girl dress? (Can't find any photos to confirm). I gave up on the judges many seasons ago (after Gretchen's win) and have only watched intermittenly since.  I can't remember what sucked me in this year--it was probably the snarky recaps on the home page!

[sofaslug]

Then later, in judging Char's two looks, Nina said it would be interesting to see what Char could do if she actually had some time to do the work.

Imagine what any of them could do if they actually had time to do the work.

[RealityGal]

I think you're being a little naive about the power of editing here. The way previews from last week and the nonevent of Korina's walking out were milked what little Char/Korina screentime there was demonstrates to me that they would loved to have built the whole episode around that. Instead we got a much better episode that focused much more on the actual designs.

 

In any case, it would have been a miserable experience for both Char and Korina. I don't particularly need to want to watch someone suffer that way just so the morality play turns out the right way. If you think Korina's a terrible person, fine. Going to fashion week was the only thing that mattered to her, and she didn't get that. Punishment enough. I don't think she should have to prove she's a good person or has learned a lesson by playing along with a script handed to her by people who are hoping she will give in to her worst impulses again with the cameras rolling.

 

If getting to fashion week was all that mattered to Korina she is a moron, and I don't think she is a moron.  Most designers look at it as a chance to showcase their work to a national audience, and to gain exposure to a national audience.  In the future she is going to want to be a designer and sell her clothing in some outlet, or work for a fashion house.  If she has a reputation for being a black hole of a personality, without the talent to back it up, she puts herself at a disadvantage.  Even if she did have the talent to back it up.  She herself said on her exit interview that she hoped the world at least got to see who she is.  Well, this is who the world saw.  If what even 80% of people think is that she is awful, then thats not going to help her career.

 

And while editing can be strong, it can't make things up.  As someone quoted before, editing isn't Pixar, it can't make you do things you haven't done.  Production needed an event from her to milk for drama.  There is no way one wayward look was going to support the "Korina is a black hole of a personality" narrative, and I think anyone who feels that way gives editing way too much credit.  They aren't actually magic elves.  A lot of people have called out editing for the Amanda vs. Char/Korina situation as well, and that was actually supported by a TH by Korina.  No matter what editing may have wanted they can't have it unless Korina gives it to them, which she did.  And they were able to support a good portion of the episode to "Korina is a black hole of a personality and no one likes her" based on what she gave them.

 

I think Char would have been fine, I don't think it would have been fun, but I think she would have done what she could to get to fashion week.  Because she is a grown up, and sometimes grown ups have to suck it up for the greater good.  Char would suck it up to get to fashion week, and Korina could have sucked it up to help repair her own reputation.  A wayward look, without a bitchy TH from Korina is nothing to build an episode around, whatever narrative they wanted to build for Korina would require more than an accidental look.  She gave them that.  And while it would have been painful for Korina, it would have been best for her to help bandage and repair her reputation.  Because she had to know that no matter what, they were using her blowup from being eliminated and that was not going to cast her in a positive light, she had a chance to repair that.

 

To me, she gave in to her worst impluses right there on camera and played directly into the producers hands.  And she didn't have to.

Edited October 10, 2014 by RealityGal

[meep.meep]

And since they're going to show at Fashion Week in three weeks, they won't have any real time to work on a real collection.  Season 1 designers had 8 months.

 

 

Oh, but see.... that's the THING! It starts out ALL WHITE, but as you walk down the street a taxi drives by and swerves into a mud puddle and splatters you and suddenly you have this BROWN COLOR splayed all over your outfit, and then it's NOT WHITE anymore and...and.... oh wait... :(

This is funny, but Sean's inspiration was an actual person dressed all in white, pretty flowy white at that.  So, maybe it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

At least they didn't do the time-honored, put the bottom two designers into a walk off just before Fashion Week to determine who is going to actually show.  

[Julia]

This is funny, but Sean's inspiration was an actual person dressed all in white, pretty flowy white at that.  So, maybe it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

Sean's inspiration was an orthodox muslim man in a white salwar kameez. I don't think anything but white survived in Sean's version.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Julia

[NikSac]

I feel for Korina in one aspect only - it had to be tough to hear: Come back to the workroom and help a designer that you don't respect cut up the garment that got you eliminated and redesign it to make it better. None of the other eliminated contestants batted an eye - even Sandhya, which surprised me.

 

Could Char have used any less of that ensemble? You just know Korina has ground her teeth down to nubs because a (tiny) part of her work got Char to Fashion week!

 

Yes, that had to be rough! I didn't like Korina at all, but really, even my favorite designer(s) from years past would have probably had a hard time with that, and I don't blame them. Especially if it was a look they liked or believed in.

[lilabennet]

Wasn't somebody eliminated in a past season for a design very similar to Sean's white dress?  I think it was deemed cheap-looking and basic, but I can't remember any other details or who the designer was.  It may have been an unconventional materials challenge.

[RealityGal]

Wasn't somebody eliminated in a past season for a design very similar to Sean's white dress?  I think it was deemed cheap-looking and basic, but I can't remember any other details or who the designer was.  It may have been an unconventional materials challenge.

I can't get Sean's white dress.  I don't know how there wasn't a vagina joke made about the slit up the front.  Or some joke about making a woman look wider than she actually is from the front.  Fashion is subjective and a lot of the things the judges adore I just don't get....

[Ms Blue Jay]

We don't know that, do we?. We only see the edited clips.  What is said by anyone, including Tim, is only part of what they actually say.

I didn't say that.  I said we don't see everything, and that includes comments Tim may or may not have said to the judges.  Clearly he has made suggestions to the designers that the judges didn't agree with, but that's to be expected.  He is a mentor, not a mind-reader.

 

That and no one is forcing these designers to take his advice.  He's offering just that--advice.  Their designs are ultiamtely their responsibility.

 

You both seem to be responding to me, so I'll respond to you both.  You seem to be missing what I actually care about.

 

I don't care what Tim tells the designers.

I don't care how accurate or not Tim's predictions are.

I don't care what the designers do, whether they follow Tim's advice or not.

 

I care about Tim's integrity, attitude, and honesty.

 

I've been shown instances of Tim throwing designers 'under the bus' by telling judges what they don't need to hear.  If judges don't like a designer's designs, Tim shits on the designer even more by giving judges inside information they don't need.  Like, "Ohhh I told him not to do that, but he wouldn't listen!"

 

On the other hand, if the judges don't like a designer's designs, but Tim's advice steered them in the wrong direction, I don't see him owning up to it.

If the judges DO like a designer's designs, because a designer directly ignored Tim's advice, I rarely see him owning up to it too.

 

I don't believe that there are supposedly millions of examples contradicting this pattern that we're not being shown.  I'll judge Tim by what I see on the show.  It's part of the activity of watching television.

 

I'm not a fan of both Tim and the show blatantly ignoring Tim's strong track record of not knowing what the judges will say that often costs the designer or is a huge detriment to the designer.

 

Heidi instructs these designers, Tim is your Mentor.  I will never blame the designers for listening to Tim, but I will blame Tim for not admitting that he predicted something incredibly wrongly or steered a designer in the opposite direction of what the judges want.  He is often directly influencing the contestants' placement in this contest in a negative way.  And as Heidi says every week, he's a mentor, not a judge, so that shouldn't be the case in my opinion.  In my opinion I'm not a fan of it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[NikSac]

I can't get the quote thing to work... but I was wondering about Char's reaction too. IMO and all it had to be really, really bad. She's always pretty enthusiastic but I don't see her as someone who would completely freak out over nothing. I'm not that into the drama part of the show, but must admit I am curious what upset her so much.

[Empress1]

As far as Korina is concerned, she's just really young

She's not that young. She's what, 28, 29? That's plenty old enough to know not to have a full-on tantrum when things don't go her way. I agree that she's immature and unprofessional, but IMO those aren't excuses - those are flaws, and ones she needs to work on, especially in the workplace. I just came off a project with a colleague I can't stand - condescending, arrogant, and probably openly racist at home (he walked right up to the "I'm reporting you to HR" line and stopped but if he used the n-word at home, I wouldn't be remotely surprised). And I sucked it up because sometimes you have to do that.

Funny about the all-white look: I love wearing white - I CRAVE a white winter coat - but I rarely wear all white because all I think of is how dirty it will get. And I love maxi dresses and have plenty (you stay cool and can stretch out leg shaving by an extra day!) but never wear ones that drag, because city living + dragging hems = nasty.

Kini's for the win, hands-down.