S06.E03: Dear God

[pennben]

 

The case is Bowman v Monsanto and it went all the way to the Supreme Court, who decided for Monsanto

http://en.m.wikipedi..._v._Monsanto_Co.

 

 

It didn't help that in the Biblical context, "seed" usually ain't referring to plants.  I think that if it was something other than Christian mediation, with all the Bible references flying around, I wouldn't have found it quite so funny!

 

Agreed, it was actually a fascinating case in real life.  As Lovecat noted above, I also believe they wanted us to notice the biblical meaning of "spreading one's seed", to play a bit with the story (especially with John Boy spreading his seed far and wide). I'd love to know if they really meant to play it as a double entendre, as I suspect they did.

Edited October 7, 2014 by pennben

[Abstract]

The episode title is what you find yourself muttering as you watch, facepalming, in shock that this utter train wreck of a campaign plot is really happening.

[Dowel Jones]

It would really suck if the prosecution actually had Bishop's lieutenant/CI in protective custody while railroading Cary at the same time.  That's probably highly unethical/illegal, but those standards haven't stopped many people on this show yet.

[Kromm]

It was Linda Lavin. It took me a while too. 

Why?  She still looks just like Linda Lavin!

 

Of course to be fair, the only other role anyone might know her from in recent years is that horrible sitcom with Sean Hayes.  Ya gotta go back a few more years to The OC for another real role (she was Sandy's mother).  Also, for all that Alice, her main claim to fame (on the show called the same thing), was on for 9 years, it was before most of this readers of this forum were born, I bet. It also seems like Alice isn't really rerun either.  So yeah, I can actually see it being hard to peg her, even though she actually DID age looking pretty consistently like herself.

[AudienceofOne]

it was that Castro was such a despicable bastard that he would use Will's name like that

 

 

 

Exactly. I wanted her to say, "Congratulations. I wasn't going to run but your appalling behaviour over the past few weeks has convinced me otherwise. See you on the campaign trail". Obviously that would have been stupid since she hasn't announced her candidacy yet. But it would have been very satisfying.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The two clients decided to go to Christian arbitration because they didn't like that the court trial was turning into being all about the lawyers, so it cracked me up when they realized that the same thing was happening in arbitration. I'm all for the law and everything, but if these two had just tried to talk to each other honestly about this matter in the first place, they could have saved themselves a lot of time and money.

 

I have a feeling they ran pretty long.  There was at least one bizarre cut and I also think they must have intended to have a reveal around the Linda Lavin phone conversations ("he didn't say that, he can't have said that," etc.

The episode ran 43:19 without commercials which is a little long (most hourlong network shows usually run around the 42 minute mark) so they probably did end up cutting some stuff. I kept thinking that her repeated phone conversations were going somewhere and then nothing!

 

I'm distracted by John-Boy worrying that other men "taking [his] seed" without paying would put him out of business, juvenile, sure, but I giggled every time they talked about seed misappropriation.

Ha, I giggled like a 12 year old every time they talked about his seed.

 

I loved when Grace told Alicia she couldn't just pick and choose Bible quotes and Alicia told her that's what lawyers do. Ha!

[NutMeg]

While I'll stay for the ride, I'm starting to have more and more issues with some of the tings that attracted me or kept me watching seemingly disappearing, such as the Alicia/Kalinda friendship (why, oh why did the Kings go and ruin of the most powerful part of the show?). I love, love, love Diane, and would have loved seeing her in the new firm, but why immediately change that by creating troubles with Cary and hinting at Alicia running? I admit "hinting at" is too weak here, I should have said "warning us that whether she/we like us, she is running, damn it". And I don't like it. Once again, in my ideal scenario, I wanted to see Cary and Alicia grow into the next Will and Diane, I wanted to see them draw Kalinda in and Diane too, because she's awesome in court and out, and has the best wardrobe and love life of them all. Seriously, if I ever grow up, I want to be Diane! (and failing that, Kalinda of yore).

 

I fear like Alicia running is going to happen, and I'm not happy with it. As stated above, I'll probably stay for the ride, but more out of a sense of "well, I'm bored today, and not much work to do, is there anything I could watch? Well, the Good Wife at least has Diane, better that than CSI...

 

I mean, this is a show that I used to be addicted to and that I now watch when I have nothing else to do, and might even stop watching if better offerings came along but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe I'll get a life instead.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited October 8, 2014 by NutMeg

[Kel Varnsen]

How exactly does it work with Peter and the endorsement of Castro. Peter was the SA before Castro right, which means that Peter probably hired him. When Peter became governor he probably appointed Castro for his old job. Wouldn't it look really bad if the guy you hired and then appointed to your old job is not good enough for your endorsement? Then again Lamont Bishop's lawyer running for SA seems crazy to me. 

 

Also what was the deal with Cary and Alicia at the end saying they didn't get any money from the case. Sure there was a settlement instead of a big pay out. At the same time I assume the seed guy is a regular client and he has a 400 million dollar plus R&D budget so keeping him happy is probably a good idea. Not to mention they must have put in a fair number of billable hours.

 

I also didn't really get the debate about expanding their office space. First they are talking about how the offices they have aren't upscale enough for their clients. It seems like they are talking about how they should move buildings. But then they start talking about how they should take over the floor above. But wouldn't the offices above generally look the same as the ones they are in? Even if they look significantly better, they are still in the same neighborhood, and you still have to ride the same service elevator to get to them.

[lovinbob]

With all the biblical parsing, I was a little disappointed that they didn't somehow point to the unnaturalness of the genetically modified seeds. (Unless they did and I tuned it out.) I was waiting for someone to say that God has no role in the process because John Boy's seeds weren't expressly created by him.

[Sandman]

Exactly. I wanted her to say, "Congratulations. I wasn't going to run but your appalling behaviour over the past few weeks has convinced me otherwise. See you on the campaign trail". Obviously that would have been stupid since she hasn't announced her candidacy yet. But it would have been very satisfying.

 

I began to wonder if, in Will's memory, Alicia might actually say "See you on the campaign trail, bitch."

[mbutterfly]

So, I'm thinking Alicia will become SA and Cary and Diane will be a powerful defense attorney team appearing in court against her in each COTW. Is that where they are going?

[Kromm]

So, I'm thinking Alicia will become SA and Cary and Diane will be a powerful defense attorney team appearing in court against her in each COTW. Is that where they are going?

How often does the actual State's Attorney make a court appearance?   Have we seen the ones over the years of this show in court more than a few times each?

[Inquisitionist]

Here is the actual org chart for Cook County State's Attorney.  The current SA, Anita Alvarez, has a pretty good reputation.  She has been in office since 2008.  According to Wikipedia:

 

Alvarez has spent her entire legal career in the State’s Attorney’s Office. Alvarez began her career as an Assistant State’s Attorney in 1986. She has argued before the Illinois Appellate Court and tried more than 50 felony jury trials. Prior to entering the race for Cook County State’s Attorney, she served as Chief Deputy State’s Attorney; Chief of Staff to the Cook County State's Attorney; Chief of the Special Prosecutions Bureau; Deputy Chief of the Narcotics Bureau, and Supervisor of the Public Integrity Unit. She also spent 3 1/2 years in the Gang Crimes Unit where she prosecuted gang-related homicides.

[vibeology]

So basically Geneva or Matan would be realistic candidates and Alicia isn't. Its just another reason I don't like this storyline. 

[Kel Varnsen]

So basically Geneva or Matan would be realistic candidates and Alicia isn't. Its just another reason I don't like this storyline. 

I think even Cary would be a more realistic candidate than Alicia. I kind of think that would make a more interesting story too.

[caracas1914]

The crazy thing was that Castro's implied mud slinging campaign to Alicia if she runs should have made her think "Fuck, shit got real that quickly" instead of making her think she has to now.

 

Alicia was having an affair with a lawyer in her firm, she was at some point pretending to living with her husband in a sham of a marriage, her law firm does have a notorious crime lord as one of their top clients (and it can be brought up because her partner was jailed for complicity in one of his dealings), etc, etc, etc.

 

Forget Castro, any opponent would cherry pick off the tree of Alicia's  baggage and history.

Her campaign would be so busy putting out fires it wouldn't even be funny.

[milkyaqua]

I'm surprised that so many people think it was Gloria Steinam that was the push.  I'm sure she helped, but for me the trigger was clearly Will.  I kept wondering what was going to be the trigger that would get her to consider to run because of course it was coming.  And as soon as Castro made that crack about Will I knew that was it.  It was Castro bringing up Will that made her finally consider running for SA, it wasn't Valerie Jarrett or Steinam or anything else, those were all cumulative effects, but it was that Castro was such a despicable bastard that he would use Will's name like that.

 

Doesn't matter if it was Will or not.  It still smacks of "stupid" and "easily manipulated" to me.  Yes, let Alicia run for SA because that won't come back and bite her and Eli in the ass but whatever show.

 

So basically Geneva or Matan would be realistic candidates and Alicia isn't. Its just another reason I don't like this storyline.

 

I think even Cary would be a more realistic candidate than Alicia. I kind of think that would make a more interesting story too.

 

This times 10.

 

I also didn't really get the debate about expanding their office space. First they are talking about how the offices they have aren't upscale enough for their clients. It seems like they are talking about how they should move buildings. But then they start talking about how they should take over the floor above. But wouldn't the offices above generally look the same as the ones they are in? Even if they look significantly better, they are still in the same neighborhood, and you still have to ride the same service elevator to get to them.

 

The main point though is that LG got into trouble by overextending themselves funds-wise.  So what sense does it make for a fledging business to contemplate doing the same regardless of Diane willing to float the money for a year?  That doesn't sound like a great business decision.

 

As for Cary, I'm waiting for him to push back against Alicia and Diane because it's coming.  I don't see him leaving the firm but I see lots of conflict there.

 

Kalinda should probably be looking over her shoulder because I don't see how her not warning Bishop's guy to get out of town not coming back to bite her in the ass big time.  She's scared of the guy on a normal day.  I do wish the Kings wouldn't have ruined her character so.

 

While I'll stay for the ride, I'm starting to have more and more issues with some of the tings that attracted me or kept me watching seemingly disappearing, such as the Alicia/Kalinda friendship (why, oh why did the Kings go and ruin of the most powerful part of the show?).

 

Because JM wanted it that way.

[Inquisitionist]

So basically Geneva or Matan would be realistic candidates and Alicia isn't.

 

The only reason Alicia is a candidate is that her (husband's) name is Florrick.  I don't see RL Gloria Steinem getting behind that.

[Kel Varnsen]

Doesn't matter if it was Will or not.  It still smacks of "stupid" and "easily manipulated" to me.  Yes, let Alicia run for SA because that won't come back and bite her and Eli in the ass but whatever show.

 

What is annoying to me is we have pretty much already seen this storyline multiple times with Peter. Everytime he runs for office, a surprise scandal erupts, Eli either puts out the fire or deflects it by finding something worse about the opponent. I don't really expect it to be any different with Alicia, other than the fact that we already know most of the scandals in advance.

 

As for Cary, I'm waiting for him to push back against Alicia and Diane because it's coming.  I don't see him leaving the firm but I see lots of conflict there.

 

If Alicia does run there probably could be some potential for that. I could see him pushing for her to step down as managing partner what with her doing campaign stuff.

[lunastartron]

Although I heartily dislike the character, I don't find Alicia's perceived viability as a candidate all that unrealistic. Congress is full of men and women who had no previous legislative experience prior to running but capitalized on salient issues of the day to create a compelling narrative (ie medical professionals running for the GOP the past couple of cycles in response to the Affordable Care Act). The ability to raise money consistently and in large sums is one of the single most important factors politicos would consider in their assessment of a potential nominee; it doesn't mean the candidate will win, but funds are essential simply for the campaign to exist and the staff to get paid. Alicia, with her connections from Peter, is definitively preferable in that respect to someone like Geneva or Matan, who would also have zero name ID recognition. Alicia is familiar to voters from her interviews and other public appearances. I don't think she would survive the slut-shaming provided there was concrete proof, but Eli could easily spin those types of accusations into a yarn about how Castro is a misogynist, sexist pig (see: Nikki Haley, Governor of South Carolina).

 

As for her ties to Bishop and other career baggage . . . anyone ever heard of Martha Coakley? A former DA, present Attorney General of Massachusetts, and nominee for Governor (past nominee for Senate), she has a lengthy record of lobbying against the release of demonstrably innocent prisoners, prosecuting defendants who later evidence subsequently vindicated, etc.

 

 

 

How exactly does it work with Peter and the endorsement of Castro. Peter was the SA before Castro right, which means that Peter probably hired him. When Peter became governor he probably appointed Castro for his old job. Wouldn't it look really bad if the guy you hired and then appointed to your old job is not good enough for your endorsement? Then again Lamont Bishop's lawyer running for SA seems crazy to me. 

 

Also what was the deal with Cary and Alicia at the end saying they didn't get any money from the case. Sure there was a settlement instead of a big pay out. At the same time I assume the seed guy is a regular client and he has a 400 million dollar plus R&D budget so keeping him happy is probably a good idea. Not to mention they must have put in a fair number of billable hours.

 

I also didn't really get the debate about expanding their office space. First they are talking about how the offices they have aren't upscale enough for their clients. It seems like they are talking about how they should move buildings. But then they start talking about how they should take over the floor above. But wouldn't the offices above generally look the same as the ones they are in? Even if they look significantly better, they are still in the same neighborhood, and you still have to ride the same service elevator to get to them.

 

Not sure how the appointment process works specifically in Illinois, but the DA, being a local and legal position, would operate under the purview of the mayor or the Attorney General, I imagine. Additionally, most states and other municipalities have statutes prohibiting a person leaving an office for the governorship from then being able to appoint someone else to their old position. One of the most recent states for this to be illegalized was Alaska, where a senator who won election for gov replaced himself in the senate with his daughter.

[Sandman]

Castro makes a great villian.  I have no idea what Finn's purpose is here now though.  I thought it would be promising at first.  Not to set him up with Alicia as a romantic partner but as a possible friend which she apparently doesn't have.

 

I keep thinking the Kings have reversed course on Finn somewhere. What happened to the guy who didn't want to be used by Castro? What happened to the guy who might have actually become a friend to Alicia? I don't see any scruples anymore, let alone any other aspect to his character than ambition. I think Castro has become too over-the-top villainous. He's practically Lex Luthor at this point. 

 

Because JM wanted it that way.

 

Has this ever been anything more than rumour? I doubt it very sincerely. I can't believe I'm the only one who isn't convinced of the truth of this. I don't know -- it just seems like an oversimplification, and plays into the stereotype of "female lead on teevee = monster diva."

[Kromm]

Has this ever been anything more than rumour? I doubt it very sincerely. I can't believe I'm the only one who isn't convinced of the truth of this. I don't know -- it just seems like an oversimplification, and plays into the stereotype of "female lead on teevee = monster diva."

Maybe I don't listen to the right sources, but all I've ever heard about Marguiles is that while she's got some strong opinions, I've never heard anything about her being hard to work with.  So I guess it depends on the definition of "diva" being used.

[maraleia]

I still can't figure out why JM doesn't want Alicia and Kalinda to share scenes with each other. Does anyone know why this is the case?

[charlieboo]

I kept thinking that her repeated phone conversations were going somewhere and then nothing!

 

I took it as a Colombo-like ploy: she makes the interviewee wait and appears to be distracted and unprofessional, all while she is noticing (and noting) every.single.thing.  I'm assuming there was never anyone on the other end of the call.

[izabella]

I still can't figure out why JM doesn't want Alicia and Kalinda to share scenes with each other. Does anyone know why this is the case?

 

What I "heard" (and I have no idea where) is that JM did not believe that Alicia and Kalinda would remain friends after Alicia found out that Kalinda has slept with her husband.  And that extends to not having those drinks at the bar scenes or otherwise friendly activities, like chatting in the office, confiding in each other, or anything unrelated to business at hand. 

 

They haven't worked for the same firm for a while, so not much "business" for them to discuss these days.  What there was, was on the phone.

Edited October 7, 2014 by izabella

[Orwell1984]

 

I still can't figure out why JM doesn't want Alicia and Kalinda to share scenes with each other. Does anyone know why this is the case?

 

I think the "official" reason is that it doesn't make sense based on the characters relationships ie: Kalinda "betraying" Alicia by neglecting to mention her past with Peter etc.  However, in my opinion, there must be something behind the scenes.  The characters according to a buzzfeed article in 2014 hadn't shared a scene in 30 episodes. That's a long time and is starting to get noticeable.  

[CleoCaesar]

I think even Cary would be a more realistic candidate than Alicia. I kind of think that would make a more interesting story too.

 

I shudder to think of the writers making Cary's unhappiness at his new law firm a catalyst for him running (against Alicia?) for SA. I shudder at another election storyline altogether. Peter's campaign was, IMO, a dull, dull story. They made the race for SA seem comparable to a presidential election, same goes for the governorship.

 

However, in my opinion, there must be something behind the scenes.  The characters according to a buzzfeed article in 2014 hadn't shared a scene in 30 episodes.

 

My theory (based on largely nothing but my fevered imagination and observation of Internet fandoms) is that there was starting to be a fair amount of "Kalicia" shipping going on in certain corners of the Internet (*cough*Tumblr*cough*) and JM was uncomfortable with it.

Edited October 7, 2014 by CleoCaesar

[milkyaqua]

Pretty much this.  I found the interview JM did with the Huffington Post.  Here's the quote from JM:

 

Alicia's relationship with Kalinda has been rocky and it's kind of taken a backseat. Do you think in Season 5 we'll see them come together again?

My guess is not. I think that's kind of played out because of circumstance. I doubt she'll be able to trust that friendship fully. I think Kalinda's character seems to have gone in a different direction. What keeps the show interesting and sort of satisfying is to see other people come into the central character's life to open her up. She needs female friendship, but she needs to start from scratch. She can't be pouring her heart out to someone who once slept with her husband. I mean, it's just not going to happen. It doesn't seem realistic. As much as I think the relationship worked in the beginning because Kalinda is such an independent, sort of suffragette woman -- it helped Alicia to see she didn't need to be a wallflower housewife anymore -- but I think there have been too many twists and turns there. To bring it back would be going backwards instead of moving forward. And there are only so many scenes at a bar you can do. [Laughs.] I do think what it did -- which is fantastic -- is it opened up a world to Alicia where she's going to realize she needs female friendship. In a certain way, having Dallas Roberts' character on the show -- her gay brother -- gave us an inkling, sort of a moment into that. Having Stockard Channing come into her life allows us to sort of see what her life was and how she was raised and why she is the way she is.

[Inquisitionist]

Congress is full of men and women who had no previous legislative experience prior to running but capitalized on salient issues of the day to create a compelling narrative

 

I could almost see Alicia being a successful congressional candidate, where her seat would be one of many, but State's Attorney is an executive position, requiring demonstrated leadership skills as well as deep experience in criminal law, neither of which Alicia has.  The show has portrayed her as a bit of a savant in the practice of law, but still, she has something like 6 years experience as a working attorney -- at a firm that was an administrative mess -- and in her first year of building her own practice, her partner is arrested on drug charges.  I don't think she would stand a chance -- and I don't know why she'd want to subject herself to a campaign without a passion for this elected position, which I have not seen in the least.

[Orwell1984]

While the above article is an answer to why Kalinda and Alicia are not BFFs, it doesn't really answer why the don't share scenes anymore.  It was quite strange that everytime Alicia went to LG she never ran into Kalinda and vis versa.  Even during this Cary storyline, you would think they would have a conversation about the matter.  Instead, its Diane and Kalinda, Alicia and Robin, Diane and Alicia, Cary and Kalinda.  From a storytelling point of view it doesn't make sense that the characters don't intereact more. 

[CooperTV]

The characters according to a buzzfeed article in 2014 hadn't shared a scene in 30 episodes. That's a long time and is starting to get noticeable.

 

I'm pretty sure it's only noticeable to people invested in continuation of Alicia/Kalinda friendship. I don't care about Kalinda and actually agree with JM about Alicia and Kalinda friendship falling apart being realistic outcome. I've no issues with the fact they're not sharing scenes or interact more.

[shapeshifter]

Cary (and Alicia and Diane) were all willing to lie to Linda Lavin's character about how well he was doing and nicely he was playing with others at work, but if he had just lied about having a beer, Kalinda's name would have never come up, right? Or if he had lied about who he had the beer with? I know, it could come out in the wash somehow if there was someone catching Kalinda in his apartment. At the window. With the beer. But wouldn't it be even easier to get people to tattle on the arguments at work?

[AudienceofOne]

I'm pretty sure it's only noticeable to people invested in continuation of Alicia/Kalinda friendship. I don't care about Kalinda and actually agree with JM about Alicia and Kalinda friendship falling apart being realistic outcome. I've no issues with the fact they're not sharing scenes or interact more.

 

 

I agree with what JM allegedly said. They would never become friends again. Alicia would be polite but distant. Forever. It's who she is.

[milkyaqua]

Cary (and Alicia and Diane) were all willing to lie to Linda Lavin's character about how well he was doing and nicely he was playing with others at work, but if he had just lied about having a beer, Kalinda's name would have never come up, right? Or if he had lied about who he had the beer with? I know, it could come out in the wash somehow if there was someone catching Kalinda in his apartment. At the window. With the beer. But wouldn't it be even easier to get people to tattle on the arguments at work?

 

Based on the people who were being interviewed, I think they all knew it was in Cary's and their best interest to paint a rosy picture.

 

As for finding out about Kalinda and talking to Bishop's guy, based on how the SA has been bound and determined to keep Cary in jail, that would come out regardless.  Kalinda, however, needs to have eyes in the back of her head because there's no way that Bishop doesn't pay her a visit...

[oceanblue]

Re: Alicia and Kalinda. Once Kalinda slept with Peter, she was in a no-win situation.  If she told Alicia and blew up her relationship with Peter to the point of no return, she would have been wrong too.  It's weird that Alicia held it against Kalinda more than Peter.  She almost took Peter back after she knew about Kalinda.  Which is way worse than sleeping with a prostitute.

[milkyaqua]

But the show did some retconning here.  In the first season Alicia asked Kalinda, jokingly, if she'd slept with Peter and Kalinda said no.

 

I'm okay with Alicia and Kalinda not having a friendship but I do understand why some would find it perhaps odd that they never seem to share even the same airspace on the show.  I think that's what's more puzzling for some than others.

[needschocolate]

Did Kalinda warn the witness that Bishop knew he was the one who wore the wire? 

 

I think that is what we are supposed to believe, but I don't understand why she would need to warn him in the first place. Bishop killed the guy who wasn't the informant, the real CI should have realized that Bishop knows there was a "traitor" in his gang, and, eventually, Bishop would figure out that he killed the wrong guy and come after him.

 

Also, why would the CI run, wouldn't it make more sense for him to go to the police (who he was a CI for) and tell them that his life was in danger - witness protection, anyone?  Actually, once the police found another member of the crew was killed, wouldn't they pull the CI and hide him somewhere?

 

The only reason Alicia is a candidate is that her (husband's) name is Florrick.  I don't see RL Gloria Steinem getting behind that.

 

Just imagine what the conversation with Gloria Steinem, the feminist to lead all feminists, would go like in the real world - 

 

Peter Florrick: Ms. Stienem, I would like you to encourage a woman to the run for State's Attorney of Illinois.

GS: Who is it?

PF: Alicia Florrick

GS: Florrick? Is this your wife?  Are you trying to take care of the "little woman"?

PF: Oh no, it is nothing like that.  She is very independent.  As a matter of fact, she and I are married on paper only.  We are only together to help our careers.

GS: She feels she needs to be married in order to be successful?

PF: Uh ... no... She has a successful law firm. 

GS: Then why is she still married to you? Isn't she strong enough to be on her own?

PF: Oh, she is a very strong woman.  You should have seen how strong she was when the news uncovered that I had multiple affairs with prostitutes.  She was the pillar of strength, standing by my side the whole time.



GS: She stayed married to you after you slept with a bunch of prostitutes?  Has she no self esteem?

PF: She has loads of it - she went out and got herself job to support the family when I was in prison.

GS: She didn't work before then?  After becoming a lawyer, she just stayed home with the kids?  Until you went to prison - I mean.

PF: Yes, but that was, uh, her choice - to stay home with the kids. 

GS: Well, I appreciate that she was able to make a choice on her own, although, frankly, she doesn't seem like one who makes her own choices.  How did she get back into law?

PF: She went to work for the firm run by her college boyfriend.



GS: Relying on a man to take care of her again, huh?

PF: Uh ...um... well....So, can you encourage her to run? She doesn't want to. 

GS: I don't think so, Mr. Florrick.

 

edited to get fix the weird spacing, but the weird spacing isn't there in editing mode

Edited October 9, 2014 by needschocolate

[Kromm]

Just imagine what the conversation with Gloria Steinem, the feminist to lead all feminists, would go like in the real world

Well the problem is that RL Gloria Steinem read the script of what Fake Gloria Steinem had to say, and why, and signed off on playing the fake version of herself willing to say what the fake version said.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Let me get this straight:  Alicia is planning to run for SA and have all of her dirty laundry aired to the public because it wasn't enough for the kids to have to live through that whole episode with their father?  How loving and protective of her.

 

This show is bordering on the ridiculous.  I'm sort of not caring about anyone on the show.  Eli is being written like a caricature of himself, the entire takeover of FA by Diane and the others from LG is implausible, and it is becoming clearer and clearer that Will was the heart of the show.  

 

By the way, I don't think it was mentioned that the detective on the stand played Artie (the restaurant owner) on The Sopranos.  The best part of the show for me is recognizing familiar faces.

[pennben]

I couldn't agree with Kromm more. Also, I'm confident real Gloria Steinem would not base her decision to support a woman for office based solely on her conversation with said woman's husband; I'd guess she'd ask the hard questions to the woman and go from there. I really don't see the above-imagined Steinem conversation coming from fake or real Steinem.

Edited October 9, 2014 by pennben

[NutMeg]

Thank you all who explained the Kalinda/Alicia/JM behind the scene.

 

 While it puts some light on the issue, I still have a problem with this 

 

Re: Alicia and Kalinda. Once Kalinda slept with Peter, she was in a no-win situation.

 

My problem is NOT with the poster but with the writers.

 

Why have Kalinda sleep (or having slept) with Peter at all? At one stage, it looked like it could bring more understanding of the Kalinda character. ("Kalinda is not to blame", etc.). This, we never got. Since then, JM has become more and more random in her actions (no more sounding board/confidante), therefore unlikeable, and we had to bear with Kalinda being paired with a psycho investigator, then a psycho husband, basically a huuuuuge set-back of her character and story lines.

 

So who's the genius who thought of Kalinda/Peter sleeping together and managed in a stroke to destroy the best part of the show with a SL that has been completely forgotten, except by faithful viewers who know what they have lost? (Did the Panjabi maybe get an award before Margulies or some silly behind the scene stuff like that? I don't really keep track, so just genuinely asking)  

 

I wish I could go back in time and change the scenario so that Peter would have slept with Kalinda's husband, that would have raised my enjoyment of the rest of the series :-)  

[izabella]

Why have Kalinda sleep (or having slept) with Peter at all? At one stage, it looked like it could bring more understanding of the Kalinda character. ("Kalinda is not to blame", etc.). This, we never got.

 

That was maddening to me - we never got any sort of explanation, logical or otherwise, about how Peter and Kalinda ended up in bed.  There was no interesting or insightful back story, nothing enlightening about either character.  We got a couple of good episodes with the fallout from Alicia finding out, and then just the end of the Alicia and Kalinda friendship. 

 

I agree with JM that, no, they would not remain friends in real life, so here we are.  And for what?

[oceanblue]

Both Peter and Kalinda have slept with people without a lot of thought or motives shown.  I didn't think it was out of character, but I agree that it was a mistake on the writers' part.  I find it odd that Alicia has no real friends.  She became insta-friends with Maura Tierney in a desperate way.  

[SaabStory]

I get the "they would never be friends in real life"...kinda.

And when Alicia asked, Kalinda flat out lied, so I get the lack of trust.

 

What I do not understand is why the writers had Alicia call Kalinda after Will's death.

It almost seemed to me that they were trying to establish that there is still a friendship.

But then nothing came of it.

 

And why didn't Alicia balk when Diane mentioned she wanted to bring Kalinda with her as the investigator?

If Robyn is your one true confidant, why not make a stand to keep her?

[milkyaqua]

I'm pretty much someone who doesn't look for logic when it comes to tv shows or movies because, really?  So while I blame the Kings for the badly drawn characters on this show and the stupid plot holes, I don't get too worked up over it.

 

I do agree and have said for some time, that Alicia needs a friend.  Kalinda could do with one as well but I don't see that being a priority for TPTB.

 

I don't get why Kalinda warned the CI either except to not have his death on her conscious but common sense would have told both of Bishop's remaining lieutenants to get the heck out of dodge but here again, you're looking for logic in work of fiction and that will burn you almost all of the time.  I am worried for Kalinda though because, Bishop you know?

Edited October 9, 2014 by milkyaqua

[cheyz]

The CI didn't go to the police because he would have had to been kept in a safe house under guard for the entire trial. He would also need enough hard evidence against Bishop for a conviction, which he obviously didn't have or the SA would never have needed to go after Cary to try to get to Bishop. So no guarantee of witness protection, which would be a year or two off in any case.

 

Alicia doesn't have friends, because they have all betrayed her. Her housewife friends disappeared when she needed them, Kalinda slept with Peter, temporary friend was using her. Her family is unreliable, Eli backs Peter first, and she certainly can't trust Peter any more except for this business marriage deal. Cary is really the only one with potential, maybe Diane depending on how the writers go. Both are more peers than they had been before. Robin is an employee and too young. With Will the timing was bad because of the Peter situation, and besides he's dead now.

[webruce]

Gloria Steinem talking to Alicia made her think a lot about running. Then going to Eli and saying," If I ran, what's the plan?" I figured it would get to this point. Eli saying to Alicia,"Not everything is about you," was cute. And it fits with others talk on here about her.

The battle over the seeds growing on one persons property that were from the next one fits a show I saw on small farmers being sued by conglomerate Monsanto. The problem is Monsanto seeds were blowing over onto small farmer land. He could not do anything about it, but they got sued anyway for it growing in his land. So some small farmers are going out of business. This case worked out differently then the one I just talked about. Mr. Wendel Keller(Dr. on CSI:NY) was planting Mr. Ed Pratt's(John Boy from Walton's) seeds, because they grew better. Then they over took his property. That is a different twist. So they talked it out with Cary watching and the rest argued on in the meeting room. It was nice that Grace helped Alicia with the Christian court case.

Joy Grubick(Alice) told Alicia about Castro talking about Cary's case. Then ofcourse James Castro tells Alicia how he will put her partner away. And about her and Will. Kinda makes her want to put him out of office. But Joy saw that Cary was not a risk, and she helped alot.

Also nice that Diane and Dean will pay to rent the next floor for first year.

Cary and Kalinda made up for lost time, lol. It's ok, if it isn't seen almost weekly.

Alicia and Dean talking about God was surprising. But he almost became a Priest.

Not sure why Diane objected to Kalinda talking to Trey Wagner. But Mrs. Stacy Wagner didn't know he was CI? Then she is seen kissing McFarland? Not a good sign!

[Readalot]

I only just now watched the ep. During the day today I was wondering if I actually wanted to keep on watching this show. I was uncomfortable with Cary being jailed but since he was released I figured I would stick around. In watching just now I am leaning more towards dumping it.

It saddens me b/c I really do like Matt C very much. But this show just isn't fun for me anymore. Perhaps fun is a poor choice of words. I am no longer excited by the prospects of watching TGW. Kalinda's no longer intriguing and I hate Alicia running for office.

I may give it one more try next Sunday. We'll see.

Taye Diggs.. I like him. The smile is killer. Not a great actor but he never ruins anything for me, If the Kings wanted to have a POC (person of color) in there they should have kept Michael Boatman. He can most def act and man, I have been a fan since China Beach.

Anyway, I haven't lost hope. I'll be back.

Kings, please bring back Gary Cole!

. Thanks for saving me some keystrokes. I just watched this episode last night and I woke up at 4 am this morning. My thoughts almost mirrored yours! I fell back asleep after an hour or so of debating myself. I think it says something that TGW isn't appointment TV for myself, and hubby for that matter. One more episode we will see. If its a Matt / Alan centric episode I will probably stay with it.

[John Potts]

I spent the entire Christian dispute wondering where I'd seen the principles in the court case until I realised it was Stan's FBI Boss from The Americans v the Medical Examiner from CSI:NY. And while I can swallow the unreality of having Alicia turn up in every conceivable court (military court, Olympic court and now Christian Court) to allow the Kings to tell different stories, could she not go, "I'm unfamiliar with how that court operates, could we have a week's recess for me to familiarise myself with the procedures?" Having her treat it like a regular law court and being surprised when it doesn't operate like one just makes her look like an idiot. You could keep the Grace scenes but use them as Alicia's trial prep. And yes, having Alicia acting as if religion is a completely alien concept to her also strains belief (pardon the pun) - her being an atheist is fine, but she ought to be aware at least in general terms of the Judeo-Christian story rather than saying (essentially) "So who is this God person anyway?"

 

Are we sure the CI hasn't vanished precisely because he's in protective custody? We only see it from the Defence (Bishop and FAA's) side which is exactly the point of witness protection - to stop the defence from intimidating/killing the witness. Sure, the cops would probably prefer to keep him in place to gather more evidence, but surely a somewhat useful witness is better than a dead one.

 

Hanahope Really, Cary is the first business owner ever arrested and out on bond in Illinois/Chicago?

That struck me as unbelievable too, even if she's more used to low level scum. I liked the Parole Officer(?) because she seemed entirely believable as the harassed "I've got 500 cases on my books and I can give you 10 minutes of my attention" public servant. Even better, she was honest in that she wasn't prepared to go along with the Cary stitch up that was clearly wanted by the SA's office.

 

AudienceofOne I agree with what JM allegedly said. They would never become friends again.

That doesn't preclude them from having legal discussions together, even if they're polite but distant.