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S05.E05: King Of Norway

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Van Alden: "I, for one, refuse to live in fear."
Sigrid: "Husband!"

Van Alden: "Coming, dear!"

 

Who the hell was that playing the young Nucky? He had the voice, look and mannerisms down cold.

 

ETA: Looked it up, his name's Marc Pickering.

Edited by AimingforYoko
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Van Alden: "I, for one, refuse to live in fear."

Sigrid: "Husband!"

Van Alden: "Coming, dear!"

 

Who the hell was that playing the young Nucky? He had the voice, look and mannerisms down cold.

 

ETA: Looked it up, his name's Marc Pickering.

The young Nucky was very good! But those teeth (falsies, I assume) had a life of their own. They were distracting.

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Yeah, the fake teeth were unnecessary (apologies to the actor if those are his real teeth, in which case yeesh).

 

I guess they're going to play it like Eli is still wanted for Knox's murder, which saddens me somewhat because it basically confirms that the Narcisse/Hoover from the season 4 finale won't receive any follow-up. For Eli to still be wanted for Knox's murder, they basically have to pretend that scene never happened. I so wanted to see the D.C. character one more time, but it looks like that might not be in the cards.

Edited by alynch

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Ain't no party like a Van Alden dinner party!  Man, was that as crazy as I hoped.  Van Alden and Eli are just the best!  I can believe I've grown to love an unhinged, psychotic, former Prohibition agent, and Nucky's treacherous, drunken, younger brother, but I do.  I want these two crazy bastards to make it!  Too bad it looks like they are being forced to go after Capone for tax evasion.  I worry that those two will be in over their head.  And, Capone is just getting worse and worse, as the days go by.  Yeah, I worry for them. 

 

Those false (?) teeth were a bit much, but man, another great casting for Younger Nucky.  He really did act and look like someone who would grow up to be Nucky/Steve Buscemi.

 

Chalky is back and gunning for Dr. Narcisse!  Go, Chalky!  Even if he has to die, I hope he at least gets his revenge.  I did like that Mickey Doyle covered for him, when that agent showed up.  He may be, well, Mickey Doyle, but he has his moments.

 

Oh, Lucky and Lanksy.  Y'all just can't seem to finish Nucky off, huh?  Nucky really has nine lives or something.

 

Meanwhile, I guess Gillian is realizing that there are some big disadvantages to pretending to be crazy.  I wonder if she's finally bit off more then she can chew, or she''' somehow worm her way out of this scenario.

Edited by thuganomics85
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Eli has done *so* many horrible things but I still felt desperately sorry for him once everything started to hit the fan. He's a character who often seems to find himself in an 'and then it got worse' type of situation. How can he have blacked out every time they had sex? They cut to those "Lost Weekend" type clips of him, what, three or four times apart from this episode? 

 

Poor June. I wish Sigrid hadn't taken it out on her too. I can understand Sigrid's bitterness and unhappiness with her life but what did she really think she was going to get out of Eli? If he was black out drunk every time he went to see her how was that a sign that she was going to get more out of him than a secret affair? 

 

I want these two crazy bastards to make it!

I do too! I didn't think I'd be on board with this, I've been beyond frustrated with both characters in the past but now after everything, the idea of them getting killed by one of Capone's men or being arrested by law enforcement bums me out.

 

Did anyone catch what the men were saying in the flashbacks after Nucky closed the door and was standing outside? 

 

I've enjoyed some of the flashbacks but tonight's weren't my favorite. The scenes with the woman by the beach took too long, I thought and the actor's teeth were distracting. I agree though that the actor playing this Nucky was great and had certain facial expressions down. I only wish they'd given him better teeth.

 

Is that Daughter's daughter with Narcisse? Ugh, I'm depressed if so. 

 

I was nervous that the innocent man Jenkins was going to be shot.

Edited by Avaleigh
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Chalky's daughter I hope?

I really was hoping he show would skip young Nucky getting Gillian but this week clearly set that up. Seriously, show, we know it happened. Whats the point?

Mabel so strong willed doesn't seem like the woman who goes mad later. But maybe that's not uncommon.

So eli had been there before and had zero memory of it? In that even possicle?

Boy Sigrid became nasty.

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It would have to be Chalky's daughter, dramatically. Since his family moved to St Louis, he's not a part of that anymore, and this is a chance for him to have a family and a daughter again.

 

They just need to do an episode at the Mueller's and have Sigrid say 'fuck' all the time. I figured out after the fact that she was dropping hints all over the place at dinner and was getting even more pissed off that Eli wasn't catching on. 

 

I wasn't surprised at the other fed enlisting Van Alden and Eli into taking down Capone because we said as much last week. I can live with it, and I hope they live, since we know Capone does get caught on the tax evasion. 

 

I'm surprised Nucky flat out threatened Luciano. I suppose he was very pissed off. I'm still hoping he doesn't die. Knowing what Luciano is doing, I think either Nucky will realize the the old guys need to go and will work Luciano to finish it off. 

 

I honestly though that SB was playing young Nucky with a lot of "young" makeup for the first scene. 

 

So eli had been there before and had zero memory of it? In that even possicle?

 

It's possible. It's happened. I don't remember not remembering fucking someone though. Numerous times. You have to be way way way out of it to not remember that. But not knowing how you got home or why you have a cut on your arm, or maybe the kitchen is a mess and you don't remember making anything. That's totally possible. Especially if Eli was driving to the same places over and over every day. 

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Dinner at The Muellers, gave me life!

I know right?  Ms. Mueller is such an awful bitch, but I can't help but like her.  She does not give even two fucks, and I'm wondering if she set this whole "dinner" thing up to spring this surprise on "husband."  In front of her daughter.  

 

The young Nucky was very good! But those teeth (falsies, I assume) had a life of their own. They were distracting.

 

Oh thank goodness, I was like "man, that poor kid saddled with those chompers!"  But very good casting, his mannerisms were on point.

Meanwhile, I guess Gillian is realizing that there are some big disadvantages to pretending to be crazy.  I wonder if she's finally bit off more then can chew, or she's somehow worm her way out of this scenario.

 

Maybe she can convince "Doctor Cotton" that her crazy lives in one of her wisdom teeth that has to be removed anyways.  He seems pretty committed to the evil living somewhere in the body and so he has to operate it out.

 

I always wonder if people who worked in those asylums ever felt bad when they figured out that all of these things they did really didn't help the patient?

 

I think that's Chalky's kid with Daughter. Six or seven seems about right.

Yea!!!!  I hope it is, it would give him something to live for

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Well, THAT was quite the episode.  Lots of things jumped forward quickly.

 

Margaret paid off Mrs Rothstein with Nucky's money, as expected but a lot sooner than I expected, and used it as a way to job that board of directors who looked down on him and showed him the door.  Bravo to both Nucky and Margaret on this one.   Will Mrs Rothstein let this be the end of it, or will she come back for more?

 

Chalky is one of my favorite characters because in past seasons he had clear motivations regarding his community and his family.   He's rudderless this season, except for his desire for revenge against Narcisse.  I'm really not happy to see Daughter, although it's pretty obvious that she had to be the route Chalky uses to hurt Narcisse and maybe the person Chalky rescues and ends up with.   To me, though, she's a nothing character, a precious thing for the two men to fight over.  To be interesting, she needs to be more.

 

Gillian, Gillian, Gillian.  I do not care about her or the asylum.  Not at all.  Not interesting.  I know she's still around because young Nucky has to reach his point of no return with young Gillian and the Commodore.  How much would you do for the Commodore, Nucky?  Procure a little girl for him?  Whoops, there goes your soul.  Do we really have to see adult Gillian and the horrors of early 20th century mental health facilities to reach that point, though?

 

Nucky versus the Italians.  You know, the Italian mobsters keep telling him in various ways that he's an outsider and that some of them would like his territory.  I think this week he finally got the message.  Give up the parm for lunch Nucky.  Find yourself a corned beef sandwich at a pub or deli.

 

Mueller family values:   Jeeze louise did that go south quickly.  Last season, Sigrid and George/Nelson seemed like an odd but fairly decent match.  Now, they're like a hateful version of the Addams family.  The daughter is creepy as s$%t, the son sucks at the recorder, everyone seems to glare at each other, and Sigrid likes to make her announcements with flair and maximum drama.  Why on Earth would she schutup a nasty old drunk like Eli?  Has to be strictly to hurt Nelson/George in the most basic and broad impacting way possible.  Screw the butcher and Nelson is mad.  Screw his partner, he's mad and you've messed up his work as well as his home.  Damn, I never thought she'd go that way.  Seems like a big change for her character, who seemed more practical in past seasons.

Edited by terrymct
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I think that child is Chalky's; for some reason I don't think Narcisse ever had sex with Daughter; basically because I can't imagine Narcisse having sex with anybody; I can see him thinking that sex would make him weak or something.

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To me, though, [Daughter's] a nothing character, a precious thing for the two men to fight over.  To be interesting, she needs to be more.

I recently re-watched season 4, and could not agree with you more. She's like the allegorical embodiment of male fantasies (namely, damsel in distress) and does not resemble a real woman at all. Considering how nuanced most of the other female characters are, I found her character to be quite jarring (and boring) by comparison. I mean seriously, did we really need all those scenes of Chalky, misty-eyed and slack-jawed, just watching her sing?

 

That being said, it would be nice for Chalky to have a fresh start (and possibly a new daughter), but I would hate for him to completely lose contact with his family.

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If the bouncer patted Chalky down when he entered the whorehouse, how did he still have a revolver?

IIRC, he had it down the front of his pants, and the bouncer only patted his side and inseam. 

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Margaret paid off Mrs Rothstein with Nucky's money, as expected but a lot sooner than I expected, and used it as a way to job that board of directors who looked down on him and showed him the door. 

 

I liked Margaret's "take the check and stfu." That was the end of that. 

 

Nucky versus the Italians.  You know, the Italian mobsters keep telling him in various ways that he's an outsider and that some of them would like his territory.  I think this week he finally got the message.

 

Nucky isn't an idiot though. He's going to go with the winning side and he's got to realize that Luciano is that. I think loyalty to the old guard was preventing Nucky from thinking longer term, but now that one of them basically tried to kill him, forget it. Luciano isn't stupid either. When repeal happens, Nucky is going to be a big, legal Bacardi distributor. It's smart to want a piece of actual, legal action. 

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I guess I'm not understanding what's up Sigrid's ass. She knew Van Alden was a criminal on the run when she married him, so he's not exactly going to be able to be a working class Joe with a weekly paycheck, if that's what she was expecting. Or is she pissed because he's a criminal who's not making any money? Maybe she wants him to move up higher in the organization? Is she just bored being a wife and mother? I have no idea, which makes it really hard to care that she's schtupping gross drunk Eli. 

Edited by BindsTheTuna
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To me, though, [Daughter's] a nothing character, a precious thing for the two men to fight over.  To be interesting, she needs to be more.

 

 

Though I think this is true, I'm not bothered by it.  It's rare on TV or in movies, to see a black female character who men desire and fight over.  Usually the black, female character is the best friend, the sexless, neck rolling woman who no man wants,or something like that, so for me, I don't mind Daughter one bit.

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 When repeal happens, Nucky is going to be a big, legal Bacardi distributor. It's smart to want a piece of actual, legal action. 

 

I'm not sure about that.  Last week's events, including Sally's murder and the Roni/Barcardi family hauling a#$ might interfere with his plans.  In real life, the Bacardi company and Roni family expanded to both Mexico and Puerto Rico during the 30's (smart move, diversify your locations in the face of insecurity), then left Cuba once the revolution there occurred.   Bacardi used that Puerto Rican base as a way to sell rum in the US tariff free after Prohibition ended.  As smart as that family was in real life, I'd hate to see the B.E. version of them silly enough only to be betting on Nucky.

 

 

I guess I'm not understanding what's up Sigrid's ass. She knew Van Alden was a criminal on the run when she married him, so he's not exactly going to be able to be a working class Joe with a weekly paycheck, if that's what she was expecting. Or is she pissed because he's a criminal who's not making any money? Maybe she wants him to move up higher in the organization? Is she just bored being a wife and mother? I have no idea, which makes it really hard to care that she's schtupping gross drunk Eli.

 

I have a similar problem.  I don't know why she's so sick of Nelson/George that she'd go to these lengths.   She knew who and what he was.

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Do we really have to see adult Gillian and the horrors of early 20th century mental health facilities to reach that point, though?

 

Seriously. I didn't even go into it in my original post in this thread because it really did feel pointless and boring. Is it any shock that places like that would be horrific and that it would be a miracle for anyone to hold on to their sanity after being forced to live there for years? Or if they had to give us a dose of it, how about one episode in she gets the news that she's going to be able to leave soon provided that x, y, and z happens so then it adds a bit of tension to her remaining scenes at the hospital. We can wonder if something will go wrong when she's forced to be around the other patients for some activity or during a session with Dr. Cotton. Or maybe give us a couple of her AC flashbacks rather than scenes at the hospital; like all she's doing is thinking about the past as she counts down the days until she can be free again. It could even have been Gillian telling a doctor or a fellow patient a story the audience hasn't heard in relation to the Commodore or Nucky or even Jimmy. Something like that could have been interesting to see. Instead we're getting a bunch of tedious scenes that aren't giving us any insight into her character and aren't related to the overall plot. I feel like they haven't known what to do with her character since the fourth season.

 

I think that's Chalky's kid with Daughter. Six or seven seems about right.

I think you guys are right. I thought the girl looked younger so that's why I jumped to the conclusion of Narcisse. I wish I'd been more excited to see Daughter and her daughter but it doesn't take away the sting of losing his first family. I bet Chalky's first wife has completely airbrushed him out of their lives and that they never talk about him.

 

I think that child is Chalky's; for some reason I don't think Narcisse ever had sex with Daughter; basically because I can't imagine Narcisse having sex with anybody; I can see him thinking that sex would make him weak or something.

 

 

We know that Narcisse would use prostitutes and that this is how he first came into contact with Daughter because her mother was one. I agree that he's probably weird about sex but to me it's more about him not wanting certain people to think he's "common". His ego is so large that it gives me the impression he thinks he has the qualities of a god or something.

 

But not knowing how you got home or why you have a cut on your arm, or maybe the kitchen is a mess and you don't remember making anything. That's totally possible. Especially if Eli was driving to the same places over and over every day.

The other weird thing apart from the number of times he must have blacked out--do people typically have their black out memories restored? I thought they were called black outs because there is no memory of what happened so how did Eli's memories come back? Or is that something that isn't all that unusual?

Edited by Avaleigh
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Nucky does not have the manpower to kill Torrio.  He needed Chalky & Capone to survive his last war - unlikely they can rescue him again.

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We know that Narcisse would use prostitutes and that this is how he first came into contact with Daughter because her mother was one. I agree that he's probably weird about sex but to me it's more about him not wanting certain people to think he's "common". His ego is so large that it gives me the impression he thinks he has the qualities of a god or something.

 

 

True, but for some reason I never thought that Narcisse had the type of sex that could produce a baby, with those prostitutes.  I could imaging him peeing on them or something, or them performing fellatio on him while he stares at himself in the mirror.

Edited by Neurochick
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or them performing fellatio on him while he stares at himself in the mirror.

 

...while he recites bad poetry he's written.

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The other weird thing apart from the number of times he must have blacked out--do people typically have their black out memories restored?

 

Yes. Weird things can trigger it, like the silly picture in the kitchen. Or someone who was around might be like, "you jumped off the balcony!" And you're like "ooohhh. Yeah."

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The other weird thing apart from the number of times he must have blacked out--do people typically have their black out memories restored? I thought they were called black outs because there is no memory of what happened so how did Eli's memories come back? Or is that something that isn't all that unusual?

Blackouts can be total, partial, or seep back into your mind in little glimpses. For Eli, it was triggered by the face of the man in that photo he saw. I found it believable. I also think when you don't want to remember, the mind is very good at just burying it under other clutter. 

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Didn't we learn that Narcisse did molest Daughter?

 

I have a little trouble believing a blackout so complete you could actually be talking to the person you had sex with in their house and not have the faintest idea.

 

As to why Sigrid is mad-- Van Alden's been making no time for her for years. I guess she's just finally had enough. But boy, was she sour.

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I'm amazed Eli could get it up when he was that drunk.  That guy must constantly walk around with an erection if that level of inebriation cannot put a damper on it.  If your erection lasts for longer than four hours or beyond a point of inebriation that would kill a normal human, please see a doctor.  

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I'm amazed Eli could get it up when he was that drunk.  That guy must constantly walk around with an erection if that level of inebriation cannot put a damper on it.  If your erection lasts for longer than four hours or beyond a point of inebriation that would kill a normal human, please see a doctor.  

No wonder they have so many kids!  :)

 

This ep moved fast for me.  Young Nucky, with the lady under the pier, first with the hog, then with the guy.  In the first moment, I thought it was going to flash to when Richard was found.

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I don't know why she's so sick of Nelson/George

I don't get it either, I could watch an hour of that guy just staring at things.

 

That would sound better from further away.

 

Why must it always be pandemonium.... even at dinner.

 

Michael Shannon owns the world.

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I want a Van Alden-Sigrid-Eli spin-off.

 

 

Leave out Sigrid and pair up Van Alden and Eli in a True Detective-style comedy drama.  Oh, the hijinks these two wackos would make.  Make it so, HBO!

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I'm amazed Eli could get it up when he was that drunk.  That guy must constantly walk around with an erection if that level of inebriation cannot put a damper on it.  If your erection lasts for longer than four hours or beyond a point of inebriation that would kill a normal human, please see a doctor.  

I've seen the doctors of this time period, Eli would be better off going to his mechanic

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I've seen the doctors of this time period, Eli would be better off going to his mechanic

The application of leeches might help. That should reduce the blood flow.  What's that sound I hear?  Is that all of the men clicking away from this forum?  

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The application of leeches might help. That should reduce the blood flow.  What's that sound I hear?  Is that all of the men clicking away from this forum?  

How about cupping??  I think you and I could be doctors during Prohibition ;)  LOL at men furiously clicking away from this forum :)

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Can someone remind me of the episode where Eli and Siegrid got together? Because, honestly, I don't remember. Did this happen offscreen and just implied? I feel like I'm suffering from one of Eli's blackouts.

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Can someone remind me of the episode where Eli and Siegrid got together? Because, honestly, I don't remember. Did this happen offscreen and just implied? I feel like I'm suffering from one of Eli's blackouts.

 

 

IIRC in each episode this season where Eli has been featured they've shown this short montage of him drinking heavily, listening to music, and having sex with some unseen woman. At the time I thought he was just having sex with prostitutes but the reveal in this episode implies that he was with Sigrid all of the times they showed those clips.

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Did anyone else find Young Nucky's Mabel a little insufferable? She seemed defiant to daddy just for the sake of being defiant: I smoked a cigarette anyway. Ugh.

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(Stupid Question) So, did that old lady live under the boardwalk or something? I know that sounds crazy, but it seemed like she was always hanging out under there.

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Did anyone else find Young Nucky's Mabel a little insufferable? She seemed defiant to daddy just for the sake of being defiant: I smoked a cigarette anyway. Ugh.

I'm right there with you.  

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Maybe the opening credits should be modified - animal & human bodies washing ashore instead of bottles. 

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It is a pity that the threw history out the window with this depiction of the Maranzano hit as a Chicago style drive by. Everyone knows that he was shot in his office by Jewish gun men pretending to be IRS agents.

Very disappointing.

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The silly picture in the kitchen was the king of Norway - this week's title.

I think YA Nucky was dubbed by Buscemi - and what an overbite out of nowhere. Youngest Nucky had ok teeth. Distracting.

Edited by Ursula Parrott
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