S29.E02: Method To This Madness

[peachmangosteen]

I am having a very hard time finding someone to really root for. There are many I am actively rooting against however.

Same here. But sometimes it's even more fun to root against people than to have someone to root for.

 

I also really don't like the "duel" format for the reward challenges. It's like they already had the challenges set up for Redemption Island, and when they scrapped RI, they needed to put them to use. REwards should be won and lost by teams, not one person.

That is exactly what happened. Why did they scarp RI? I mean, it sucks, but TPTB always seemed to defend it and, in fact, brought it back yet again, and then seemingly randomly scrapped it. It's weird.

Edited October 2, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[cooksdelight]

See John's thread for some inside info I just shared.

[fishcakes]

Once again, the BvW thing with all newbies does nothing for me. I don't care about relatives squaring off against each other because I don't care about one person more than the other. Missy and Baylor are on the challenge platform looking at each other all teary-eyed for a year but I'm just wanting them to move it along because seriously who cares? It didn't help that Missy was going to pretend Baylor was one of her exes and Baylor was going to pretend Missy was one of Missy's exes. Sounds like a really healthy family environment they had going there. If I wanted to see people who have no control over their personal lives, I'd watch Maury.

 

Jeremy's talking about protecting Val bothered me less this week because his conversation with Rocker made me pretty sure he's talking about protecting her in the game, as opposed to protecting her from snakes and the like. Not that it matters now.

 

So, if Val and Jaclyn both voted for Baylor, what happened to the guys splitting the votes?

 

Just speculating, but I think what happened is that Josh was supposed to be one of the three voting for Baylor, but he figured out Val's strategy and so changed his vote to Val so that it would be a 4-4 tie instead of a 5-3 with Baylor going out. He made some comment about how Val's story about the idols sounded fishy and he seemed to be the only one who wasn't completely buying it, which makes him the one-lobed man in the kingdom of the lobeless.

 

Does John Rocker get some credit for encountering a gay man, an african american man, and a woman and only saying something offensive to one of those groups. 2 out of 3 isn't bad for him!

 

Ha. True, but it's only week two. He'll get around to offending everyone in time. You can do it, Rocker! I believe in you!

Edited October 2, 2014 by fishcakes

[blackwing]

I don't care for the one on one reward challenges either.  It's a team reward, and it puts a lot of pressure on the one person doing it.  I'm wondering if we are going to see any repercussions for the losers.  Also, so far now only Jeremy and John know that you get clues to the immunity idol at Exile.  Would anyone volunteer for the challenge and purposely lose reward so they can get a chance at the clue?  Would be interesting to see if anyone tries this strategy.  Why doesn't the team give people more of a hard time for losing?  John volunteered to do the challenge and lost.  He singlehandedly lost the fishing gear for his team.  Yet no one complained.

[cooksdelight]

Would anyone volunteer for the challenge and purposely lose reward so they can get a chance at the clue?

Yes. John did.

[Alapaki]

One more thing - would Val even had been targeted in she hadn't started the whole two-idol charade? Based on talking heads, I got the feeling she was trying to save Jaclyn, her last ally. But then again why save your only alliance partner if it's a case of her or you? Sure, she didn't see it this way at the time, but then why not build up her challenge potential to steer some guys instead of this 2-idol nonsense and talking smack about Baylor because she voted with the guys!!!?

 

 

Or how about urging them to vote out Oldy McOlderson (whose fire-making prowess was guaranteed to be rendered obsolete by the fact that Probst always gives the losers flint after TCs?)

 

I think maybe Val was a collateral victim of Nadiya's emphasis on a "guys vs. girls" mentality.  Coming back just before TC1, Val would've perceived a men vs. women split, and with Nadiya gender-norming Josh into a "woman", they had the 5-4 advantage.

 

But then Nadiya sticks her foot in her mouth at TC so Josh chooses "bro's over D'oh's!" and Baylor flips.  Now, all of sudden, Val feels she's on the wrong end of a 6-2 split.

 

However, I don't think that was necessarily the true dynamic post-TC1.  I think Val and John could've made a completely persuasive argument to get Dale voted out.

[NutMeg]

I think Val and John could've made a completely persuasive argument to get Dale voted out.

 

Agree. Dale, or Baylor, or even Jaclyn. Anyone-but-me-is 1) a sound strategy, 2) one that the tribe embraced at lat TC. I am repeating myself but before Val told the tale of her 2 idols I don't think she was at risk (and I have the feeling she did so in a mistaken attempt to save Jaclyn in order to keep an ally, which was myopic if not idiotic at this stage of the game and got her eliminated). 

[Wings]

They all should know that IIs cannot be used after the merge so sharing the clue with your EI rival is a good way to go.  Should you make the merge you have someone who appreciates your sharing.  And it could help your partner if they are aligned.  Nothing lost in sharing, really.  

 

EI was thrown together at the last minute and I hold no hope for it to be interesting. 

 

When your partner is voted off, your chances of lasting longer improve greatly.  They should be happy to see their partner go in that respect.  

[NutMeg]

When your partner is voted off, your chances of lasting longer improve greatly.  They should be happy to see their partner go in that respect.

 

I'm sure Julie would agree with this. 

[AncientSand]

I'm a bit surprised by all of the Baylor hate.  If I were up on the platform and gave one one my kids a split lip, I'd be jumping in the water.   I know it's a game but no way I'm hurting my kid for any amount of money.

[truthaboutluv]

I really like Julie a lot and I can not understand why she's with John. But, for some reason, it doesn't make me like her any less. But Reed has gone down in my esteem because he is with Josh.

 

 

I don't really understand this. So Julie gets a pass and is still respected while she's dating a man who has in the past shown himself to be racist and homophobic and even he's supposedly changed, demonstrated last night he's still clearly a raging sexist. Yet Reed loses respect for dating Josh simply because some have made the assumption that Josh is using the show to further his Broadway career? A likely assumption perhaps but still just an assumption. 

 

Even while I rolled my eyes at Josh's Broadway analogy at tribal council and I can see how he could get very annoying the further he goes in the game, so far he hasn't been nasty, malicious or hateful to anyone. And so what if he is using the show to further his career. Like everyone who comes on Survivor or any reality show does it purely for the love of the show. Plus I'd wager to guess that Josh is interested in both furthering his career and winning the million dollars so I'm certain he really is there for the game itself. 

 

And, since Baylor was the only woman who voted with the guy alliance last week, why was the back-up target this week?  Why not target Jackie (I think that is the name - the woman who isn't Val or Baylor).

 

 

Yeah this is why I'm with others in wondering how much editing is not showing because something here does not add up. Even if they bought Val's idol story, I still don't understand why the vote split wasn't between her and Jacqueline, the one supposedly not in the alliance either. Jacqueline's name never even seemed to come up with the guys which is just odd. Especially as you said, Baylor voted with them. 

 

Coupled with that, Dalton Ross in his EW recap last week, revealed that Baylor pretty much comped to flirting with and cozying up to Alex. So you would think with her voting with them, cozying up to Alex and her supposed alliance with Josh, that she would have been safe. Yet it looks like the guys can't wait to get rid of her. Odd...

 

It was such a ridiculous comment to make - the challenge involved balance, concentration, and rolling a ball up a ramp, none of which requires testosterone or big muscles.

 

 

That's why I was baffled when John volunteered for that challenge and the tribe went with it. Once they heard the first part of the challenge, John should not have been an option. Dude is a big, burly guy. He doesn't exactly scream grace and elegance, something you need, along with patience to get through something like this.

 

Just speculating, but I think what happened is that Josh was supposed to be one of the three voting for Baylor, but he figured out Val's strategy and so changed his vote to Val so that it would be a 4-4 tie instead of a 5-3 with Baylor going out. He made some comment about how Val's story about the idols sounded fishy and he seemed to be the only one who wasn't completely buying it, which makes him the one-lobed man in the kingdom of the lobeless.

 

 

That's exactly what I assumed happened. It was a risk that worked when it turned out he was right in assuming Val was full of it with her idol claims. So like he said, there may be some method to his madness because I do think that was his way of saving Baylor. I'm just still trying to figure out why the other guys seem to be targeting her over Jacqueline. And I guess it also now sort of makes sense his saying he was trying to appear not too aligned with her because clearly for whatever reason, the other guys don't seem to be too fond of her.

 

They all should know that IIs cannot be used after the merge so sharing the clue with your EI rival is a good way to go.

 

 

They can't? I don't think that's right because I'm pretty sure many people have found their Immunity Idol before the merge and used it after. Malcolm for example in his original season found his Immunity Idol before the merge and had it as a safety for most of the game. He didn't play it because he never needed to but he could have if he needed to. Rob also found his Immunity Idol before the merge during Redemption Island and played it a 5, the last time he could play it. So I don't think that's correct and exactly why I can see someone not wanting to share the information with who they're at Exile Island with as that person may then know, if they both make the merge, that the individual has an idol since they know they had the clue. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Eolivet]

Come on CBS, now your previouslies are set up beautifully: "In the immunity challenge, Rocker threw the heat, but his team lost their second straight. He was then served up a curveball when his secret alliance mate Val, became the target. In the end, he blew the save of Val, who he'd promised to protect."

 

A tad uncomfortable the first two contestants voted out are minority women. Really, Survivor?

[Wings]

I thought maybe Julie sat out the Immunity Challenge because she won the Reward challenge for them, so they were giving her a break.

 

I agree and at the same time she was probably the less likely to win because she is tiny so a doubly good choice.   

[blackwing]

Even while I rolled my eyes at Josh's Broadway analogy at tribal council and I can see how he could get very annoying the further he goes in the game, so far he hasn't been nasty, malicious or hateful to anyone. And so what if he is using the show to further his career. Like everyone who comes on Survivor or any reality show does it purely for the love of the show. Plus I'd wager to guess that Josh is interested in both furthering his career and winning the million dollars so I'm certain he really is there for the game itself.

I dislike Josh a lot and it has nothing to do with his Broadway aspirations.  I don't care for him because last week he was so offended that Nadiya said he could be one of the guys or could be one of the girls and that her opinion was he was pretty much one of the girls.  Even though what came out of her mouth was worded poorly, I do think she was astute to pick up that he could be playing both sides.  But Josh got so ticked off at what she said.

 

Then this week, he pretty much revealed that she pegged him exactly right.  He said he was playing both sides, he needed to stay in with the guys but then he also needed to appease Baylor and appear to be with her as well.  I think he's very manipulative and sneaky.  I guess you have to be to win at this game, but he wouldn't bug me as much if he owned up to it instead of being horrified and offended at the thought that he could be playing both sides.

 

I'm a bit surprised by all of the Baylor hate.  If I were up on the platform and gave one one my kids a split lip, I'd be jumping in the water.   I know it's a game but no way I'm hurting my kid for any amount of money.

I despise Baylor a lot, mostly because I think she is useless.  As for getting her lip split, they acted like it was all Mom's fault, when it wasn't at all.  Baylor started that fight like a devil, she lunged at her mom, her mom attacked as well, and it was just an accident or poor attacking skills that Baylor caught her mouth on her Mom's shoulder.  It's not like she was this innocent little baby that Mom slugged in the mouth.  But she does her whole pouty "I refuse to cry" thing and garners sympathy from Mom.

 

I guess I also dislike her because I pretty much dislike every single guy on the yellow tribe, and she was instrumental in setting about the demise of the women's alliance.  If she and Josh are a secret team she could have easily convinced him to vote off Dale last week.

 

I do think it's a bit poor of the show, although it's not particularly their fault.  18 contestants.  Two black, two brown.  And the one losing tribe votes off both minority members right off the bat.

[NutMeg]

Maybe Baylor was targeted because Josh put her on the board last week. Me as a player - at least someone wants her out, good, at least it's not me on the chopping board (may be more to it, but at this stage of the game I think it would be enough reason).  

[truthaboutluv]

I don't care for him because last week he was so offended that Nadiya said he could be one of the guys or could be one of the girls and that her opinion was he was pretty much one of the girls.  Even though what came out of her mouth was worded poorly, I do think she was astute to pick up that he could be playing both sides.  But Josh got so ticked off at what she said.

 

 

YMMV but that is not how I remembered last week's episode. I never got the feeling that Nadiya was calling Josh out on playing both sides or suspecting him of it and even if she was that is not what Josh expressed annoyance with. What he was upset about was the assumption Nadiaya made well before they were going to tribal council that he was "as good as girl anyway" and seemed to think he was just automatically another girl because he was gay. 

 

Yes, he likely buttered up to them because he is playing both sides and he copped to that at the tribal council saying that he was close with the guys as well as the girls and so he felt like he was somewhat in the middle. But I fail to see how being friendly with the girls and cozying up to them as people do on  Survivor made it okay for Nadiya to just decide he was as good as a woman and call him so, especially if he did not give her the impression he was comfortable with that. Like Colton for example made comments about being comfortable with the girls and wanting to be on their tribe and all that. Josh, as far as what we were shown, did not. So I still don't see how anything he did or said this week proved Nadiaya was right and his annoyance at her last week was so hypocritical or unfair. 

[bluebonnet]

 I did get annoyed at how Jacqueline cupped/grabbed/squeezed her fake looking huge boobs each time right before her two fights started.  What was she doing there?  Was cupping them going to help keep them in her top?  You'd think she'd bring a one piece (or ask for one if it's a provided suit) if she was worried about them falling out.  Was it out of some kind of superstition?  Are they lucky big boobies?  Does she do this in Vegas before her throw at the craps table???  Inquiring minds want to know!

 

I'm one who often gets annoyed with some of the women's clothing choices because it so often becomes a hindrance during matches.  A buff around large breasts is the most ridiculous things because no matter if a player's large breasts are perfectly shaped and perky silicone, a buff just isn't going to stay put.  I almost groaned when Jacqueline reached up to adjust but I had to pause because it looked a lot more like a typical adjustment after diving into water, swimming and then pulling one's self up onto a platform.  Her top is a reasonable suit - underwire cups with more coverage than triangles.  As someone with large breasts, I understood her adjustment.  It was one of those typical things you'd see at a pool or the beach and is completely unnoticeable unless some cameraman and editor decide that it must be focused on repeatedly.  I imagine it's probably difficult to get the perfect swimsuit as it's hard to figure out how much weight one will lose, how much the suit will stretch due to excessive wear and tear, how much it will move in contact challenges.  

 

In short, I was irritated at the cameraman and editor because this adjustment didn't seem like the sort where the female was itching to show off her boob touching, much like those who do the buff thing.   

I don't really understand this. So Julie gets a pass and is still respected while she's dating a man who has in the past shown himself to be racist and homophobic and even he's supposedly changed, demonstrated last night he's still clearly a raging sexist. Yet Reed loses respect for dating Josh simply because some have made the assumption that Josh is using the show to further his Broadway career? A likely assumption perhaps but still just an assumption. 

 

Even while I rolled my eyes at Josh's Broadway analogy at tribal council and I can see how he could get very annoying the further he goes in the game, so far he hasn't been nasty, malicious or hateful to anyone. And so what if he is using the show to further his career. Like everyone who comes on Survivor or any reality show does it purely for the love of the show. Plus I'd wager to guess that Josh is interested in both furthering his career and winning the million dollars so I'm certain he really is there for the game itself. 

 

So true.  I think there are very few people who come on the show without the desire to use their screen time to further their image.  I figure if you come on tv, it's because you want to be seen.  Those who are uninterested in creating or furthering an image are probably not going to be selected to compete because Survivor is in the business of entertainment and ratings.  

[ElleryAnne]

I despise Baylor a lot, mostly because I think she is useless.  As for getting her lip split, they acted like it was all Mom's fault, when it wasn't at all.  Baylor started that fight like a devil, she lunged at her mom, her mom attacked as well, and it was just an accident or poor attacking skills that Baylor caught her mouth on her Mom's shoulder.  It's not like she was this innocent little baby that Mom slugged in the mouth.  But she does her whole pouty "I refuse to cry" thing and garners sympathy from Mom.

 

 

I haven't seen enough yet to rule her out as useless, but I agree about the way she played that bit.  She went at her mom with more ferocity than I expected, and none of the good humor that I would have expected.  I sense issues there, and I don't want to watch a Survivor sub-plot about it.  I'm hoping they're both out pre-jury.

 

 

A tad uncomfortable the first two contestants voted out are minority women. Really, Survivor?

 

 

In this case, though, Val pretty much got herself voted out.  And I doubt the show wanted to lose one of the twinnies in the first week.

 

 

I'm with those thinking JRock is the perfect goat to string along until the end.

 

 

He is.  But that means he may be around for a long time.  Ugh.

[Hera]

After she got whacked and her mother walked over to see if she was okay, I almost thought she was just faking and was going to push her mom in while her guard was down.

That was my thought, too. I felt bad for her. I've split my lip (took a softball to the mouth) and it hurts a lot. Plus, people have different tolerances for different types of pain. I don't feel like we've seen enough from Baylor for me to have a strong opinion about her one way or the other, though I think I lean towards liking her. She was right to be skeptical of Josh's explanation of why he voted for her. His comment to her about how it's probably made them even closer as allies is one of the most bizarre statements I've heard on Survivor and I don't think she bought it. She was right not to call him out to his face (no need to make enemies when you don't have to) and I thought she handled being called out at tribal council really well—she stayed calm and accepted that there would be votes coming her way.

 

I wish we got more confessionals from people who aren't John Rocker or Josh, though. This is a problem every season—we hear a lot from a few people, and know very little about what everyone else is thinking.

 

Lastly I don't understand bargaining for the flint....you are telling me 7 or so people can't get down on their knees and canvas the area until it was found?

I wondered about that as well. Maybe they did and we just weren't shown it. Or maybe they decided it was possible that someone lost it in the ocean or a stream or some other body of water where it might be unrecoverable. Or maybe a monkey took it.

 

There's usually one at each tribe's beach.  But they sometimes get put back into play after someone uses them.

This is how I've always understood hidden immunity idols to work: one per tribe, and then once a tribe's idol is out of play (either because someone left with it in his or her pocket or because it got played), it gets replaced (unless it's after the merge, and someone still has another idol from their original tribe).

 

Maybe I missed it, but did we ever hear exactly how the Baylor-Val vote-split was supposed to play out (i.e. who was supposed to vote for each one)?

 

It seemed like John's plan was to get a tie, have Val play one of her (nonexistent) HIIs, thus saving Val this week, but burning one of her Idols.  

 

But then Val said that she and Jackie could vote against Baylor, thus sending Baylor out on a straight majority vote, and (presumably) somewhat blind-siding John.

 

But . . . if John told Val that he was trying to save her (which I think he did), then why wouldn't she just pitch the idea of an outright majority vote against Baylor directly to him?

This is a very good point. I don't know why Val didn't suggest it (or if she did, why it wasn't shown). It may well be that John didn't like the idea of Val having an idol and wanted the split vote so that she'd have to burn hers. I'm not sure why she didn't just admit to John that she didn't have any idols. She knew her back was against the wall. Once she was privy to this split vote strategy, she should have realized that it wasn't going to hurt her game any to come clean about her bluff to someone who was trying to offer her a lifeline. I mean, yes, she might get votes for lying about the idol, but by that point, she knew she'd be getting votes anyway. Maybe she didn't want to work with John? As sympathetic as I am to that, beggars can't be choosers.

 

I laughed at John's frustration at Val during the revote.

 

Exactly.  He saw the clue and knew he found it, so if he really thought Val had two other ones at this point he really is as dumb as dirt.

I suspect that there are probably confessionals from the rest of the tribe (except for John Rocker) that got cut that show everyone calling bullshit on Val's having two idols. A fan like Josh would have known that it's pretty much unprecedented this early in the game that anyone would have two. He would also know that if you have an idol, you generally don't tell people outside of your alliance about it (it seemed like everyone had heard Val's story)—you try to stay off the chopping block as long as possible so that you can keep it as insurance, and to prevent anyone else from getting it. Really, nothing about the way she behaved was consistent with her having an idol, and I'm sure at least a few people knew that, even if we weren't shown anyone saying that.

 

I agree that John Rocker is the perfect goat, but it's possible he might end up being so toxic that it actually hurts the game of whoever brings him to the end—I think that's what happened to Parvati in Heroes vs. Villains. Russell Hantz was so hated by the rest of the cast and she wasn't able to distance herself from him enough.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Hera

[Tryangle]

I'm one who often gets annoyed with some of the women's clothing choices because it so often becomes a hindrance during matches.  A buff around large breasts is the most ridiculous things because no matter if a player's large breasts are perfectly shaped and perky silicone, a buff just isn't going to stay put.  I almost groaned when Jacqueline reached up to adjust but I had to pause because it looked a lot more like a typical adjustment after diving into water, swimming and then pulling one's self up onto a platform.  Her top is a reasonable suit - underwire cups with more coverage than triangles.  As someone with large breasts, I understood her adjustment.  It was one of those typical things you'd see at a pool or the beach and is completely unnoticeable unless some cameraman and editor decide that it must be focused on repeatedly.  I imagine it's probably difficult to get the perfect swimsuit as it's hard to figure out how much weight one will lose, how much the suit will stretch due to excessive wear and tear, how much it will move in contact challenges.  

 

I'm not a woman, but I also didn't think she was doing anything out of the ordinary or unexpected with her adjustment. Yes, camera folk put the added focus, so to speak. Twice.

 

 

A tad uncomfortable the first two contestants voted out are minority women. Really, Survivor?

 

Probably worth further discussion in a "Race and Class" thread on this, but I chalk these showings up to coincidence - Nadiya as a TAR-target and Val as a self-inflicted target. Perhaps Natalie and or Jeremy will have a Tasha-like run.

[iMonrey]

This type of immunity challenge is exactly why I quit watching this show for several years. It's unnecessarily aggressive and potentially violent. I know there are lots of people who enjoy this hand-to-hand combat type of thing but I am not one of them. I know this isn't Big Brother, but it's not American Gladiators either. It's just a medical emergency waiting to happen, and the second Baylor started bawling about her lip they should have pulled her out of the challenge. There was no way her mother was going to come after her after that. Challenges that end with contestants bleeding should be retired from this show.

 

Back to Jeff - after the tougher match up then, Nathalie/Val, he has the gall to say that the John match up is the biggest battle that far? Don't remember his exact word but "another big battle coming" would have been more appropriate wording (unless of course broadcasting didn't show the actual sequence, in which case I eat my words and apologize for thinking the worst of Jeff).

 

Oh by all means, feel free to think the worst of Jeff. He had a visible hard-on for the John vs. Jon match-up and drove home afterward how great Jon must have felt, for beating someone as big and strong as Rocker. He also goaded Rocker into that "I got beat by a girl" bullcrap. Jeff is the other reason I quit watching this show for a long time.

[Alapaki]

Just speculating, but I think what happened is that Josh was supposed to be one of the three voting for Baylor, but he figured out Val's strategy and so changed his vote to Val so that it would be a 4-4 tie instead of a 5-3 with Baylor going out. He made some comment about how Val's story about the idols sounded fishy and he seemed to be the only one who wasn't completely buying it, which makes him the one-lobed man in the kingdom of the lobeless.

 

 

I'm still not clear on which six players constituted the 3-3 split that was planned.  

 

Was it the 5 guys + Baylor (w/Baylor obviously voting for Val and getting blindsided)?

 

If so, how did those 6 think Val and Jaclyn were going to vote?  

 

Did they think they'd still target Dale, leaving the vote 3 for Val, 3 for Baylor and 2 for Dale (with Baylor going home after Val played her non-existent HII)?

 

It wasn't clear to me who introduced the vote-split idea.  Was it Keith?  

 

Because, if John was truly trying to align with and protect Val, why not just tell Val "the guys want to split the votes 3-3, so you and Jaclyn vote for Baylor, keep your HIIs in your pocket, and Baylor will go home 5-3 and you and I will have 3 HIIs between us."?

[seacliffsal]

Regarding why Baylor was targeted in the vote instead of Jacqueline, Val stated that since she had two idols she would use on on herself and the other to protect Jacqueline.  At that point someone talked about how one of them would go home if they split the vote between Val and Jacqueline and they both used an idol.  Therefore, the split vote was between Baylor and Val as Val wouldn't use her idol to protect Baylor.  There would not be a swing out vote of one of the men by not targeting two idol holders.  Or so they were led to believe....

 

Once Val knew the plan, she and Jacqueline had to vote for Baylor for if they voted for someone else, Val may have received enough votes to be sent home on the first vote (and I think that Val was hoping to deflect votes onto Baylor during her tribal rant regarding Baylor's vote at the previous tribal council).  

 

edited because I wanted to add another thought....

Edited October 2, 2014 by seacliffsal

[truthaboutluv]

See I thought of that but it still didn't make sense to me because they voted Val anyway. So my thinking was then they could have discussed still voting for her and Jacqueline, thereby flushing both idols if she really had them and then whoever Jacqueline and Val voted for would go home. Actually kind of like what they did in Fans vs. Favorites II when Malcolm pulled out his two idols and said he was using it to protect himself and Eddie.

 

Things got topsy turvy for a moment, until Eric pointed out at that just because they showed the idols didn't mean they would play it. And so the alliance went ahead and voted for Eddie anyway and Philip went home because Eddie did play his idol which meant all the Eddie votes didn't count. And he, Malcolm and Reynold and maybe someone else, can't remember, voted for Philip 

 

So my point is, idol claim or not, what the alliance should have done was still vote as they were going to and split the votes between Jacqueline and Val, ensuring they flush out both idols if she really had them and if Baylor went home because Val and Jacqueline voted for her and only their votes count, well then at least they can say they didn't flip on her. But honestly, by the way the were talking and how the editing showed the discussions, it really seemed like Jacqueline was not even a consideration and the options really were between Val and Baylor.

[Guest]

I'm just glad to have Val with the Mickey Mouse voice off my tv.  She talked half that episode and never said anything interesting.  Just squeaked.  I didn't like that chip on her shoulder, either.

 

I did think that a challenge involving rolling a little ball into hole targets could conceivably be easier for a professional pitcher, not that he got that far.  

 

I'd like to know exactly what John said in response to Jeff asking if his nose was ok.  We figured it was "Fine" but it got bleeped.  Fuck?  Fuck you?  Fuck off?  I guess if it was one of those two latter we would've seen Jeff's surprised face.  

[Nutjob]

 

I did think that a challenge involving rolling a little ball into hole targets could conceivably be easier for a professional pitcher, not that he got that far.

Yeah, his size and bulk was a major disadvantage in the obstacle course portion of the challenge. Had he gotten to the end he might've smoked it, but...

 

Also, this episode was Exhibit A of why I was dreading having Rocker on the show. The guy is just a grade A douchebag from top to bottom.

[elizacat]

Because they still have all their men, and men are automatically better at challenges than women? According to Rocker, anyway.

 

I noticed that the other team sat out Julie in the immunity challenge, and she was the one who won the reward challenge for them.

When discussing it they mentioned Julie and another girl - can't remember the name but it looked to me they were the 2 smallest females hence why Julie was chosen.

[Jersey Guy 87]

 

And, since Baylor was the only woman who voted with the guy alliance last week, why was the back-up target this week?  Why not target Jackie (I think that is the name - the woman who isn't Val or Baylor).

 

I think Val said Jackie had three idols of her own.

[LanceM]

I'd have to go back and watch the episode but I don't recall any of the guys looking shocked when it turned out to be a 4-4 tie at tribal. It makes me wonder if that was the plan all along and the editing just tricked to makes us woner how Josh was going to vote.

[iMonrey]

 

I'd like to know exactly what John said in response to Jeff asking if his nose was ok.  We figured it was "Fine" but it got bleeped.  Fuck?  Fuck you?  Fuck off?  I guess if it was one of those two latter we would've seen Jeff's surprised face.

 

I think he said "Fuck it" like it was no big deal.

[Rick Kitchen]

He's an aspiring Broadway performer who's only gotten as close as one show Off-Broadway.  He's hoping the higher profile from Survivor will get him in the door of an audition. 

 

Has he said that?

[Rick Kitchen]

I dislike Josh a lot and it has nothing to do with his Broadway aspirations.  I don't care for him because last week he was so offended that Nadiya said he could be one of the guys or could be one of the girls and that her opinion was he was pretty much one of the girls.  Even though what came out of her mouth was worded poorly, I do think she was astute to pick up that he could be playing both sides.  But Josh got so ticked off at what she said.

 

Then this week, he pretty much revealed that she pegged him exactly right.  He said he was playing both sides, he needed to stay in with the guys but then he also needed to appease Baylor and appear to be with her as well.  I think he's very manipulative and sneaky.  I guess you have to be to win at this game, but he wouldn't bug me as much if he owned up to it instead of being horrified and offended at the thought that he could be playing both sides.

 

 

But that isn't what happened.  Nadiya didn't call him out for playing both sides, she just commented that he was just like a girl because he's gay, and so he should vote with the girls.  That was offensive.  Period.

[lilabennet]

I also wonder if Redemption Island was changed to Exile Island at the last minute.  I think they were counting on more pairs having to battle their loved ones in the original BvW (with tears, of course), but it didn't really work out, so this time they are making sure that we will have a lot of that by forcing people to be responsible for sending their loved one to EI.  Annoying because I don't think tears have any place on Survivor.  I am glad that they decided to have people from both tribes on EI at the same time at least.  The potential for cross-tribe alliances was one of the more interesting storylines from Tocantins.

 

I like this Immunity Challenge.  These people are all adults who should know what they have signed up for and I don't think this challenge is any more dangerous than a high school wrestling match.  They have had this particular challenge many times before without any serious injuries.  It is not the show's fault that some of these people were stupid enough to lead with their heads instead of their bags like they were supposed to.  I like the raw, physical aspect of the Survivor challenges.  It is a funny contrast to The Challenge on MTV where they won't allow their contestants within 20 feet of a body of water without a helmet or a mouth guard.

[BC Mama]

Okay, I've got a twin! I love my twin! Womb buddies for life and all that!! But, I really didn't like Natalie implying that her relationship with Natalya was more special than the other relationships on the show, because they had been together for 28 years or whatever! 

 

And, I think the reason Julie sat out of the challenge was because her team was concerned her giant breasts would throw her balance off. A valid concern.

[samuel]

This is the first season with Exile island that I've watched, and I like it so far. It doesn't radically alter the game like Redemption Island; it just gives a small opportunity every few days for players to associate cross-team. Pretty cool actually, though I wouldn't want it in every season.

 

Probst continues to be my favorite part of the show. His badgering the team about the flint exchange is part of the game, and it's hilarious. They were idiots to have lost their flint. Of course Jeff would have also given them a hard time had they asked before the challenge—half of his job is to fluster the players. I love it, especially when he does it at Tribal. It's not like the players have to answer his probing questions honestly but they usually do, and I never have understood why. Seems to me the best strategy at TC would be to shut up and just vote.

 

Also, I really don't think the producers do anything sketchy. The editing is just so tight that it looks that way. For example, I'm sure John Rocker was searching and digging for a while; it's not like he took 7 steps and found the idol immediately, right where he was standing. Speaking of which, I'm enjoying watching John play. He seems smarter than most of the other contestants (I liked his comments after finding the idol and subsequent plan for the vote) and is playing a good game at this point. I hope he goes far.

Edited October 3, 2014 by samuel

[ParadoxLost]

(whose fire-making prowess was guaranteed to be rendered obsolete by the fact that Probst always gives the losers flint after TCs?)

 

This brings up something I've always wondered about.  Does the show require that the tribes have certain survival gear/tools by certain times in the game, earned or not?  I remember watching, in one of the earlier seasons, and thinking that the nature of the luxury comps had suddenly and drastically changed and it coincidentally happened with a pair of tribes that I was sure was on the verge of death because they were so inept (or unlucky) that they were going to need to change the name of the show. 

 

This episode, Probst's brow-beating and threats over not taking the replacement flint was over the top and the guys changed their position on a dime which made me wonder how edited it was and if there was offscreen explaining of how things would be and they didn't actually have a choice.

 

And of course, cynic that I am, I bet its because of an insurance policy rather than not wanting these people to become violently ill because they can't boil water.

[Turtle]

A tad uncomfortable the first two contestants voted out are minority women. Really, Survivor?

 

I wish I could blame this on Probst/ Burnett, but the sad truth is that the contestants are the ones who make these choices.  And that's even sadder, I think.  It's not just a couple of guys making the decision.  It's the whole group of people, season after season, devaluing the women of color and considering them to be the "easy boot."   Sadly representative of society at large. 

 

I really don't think the producers do anything sketchy.

 

Hilarious.  

 

ETA:

But that isn't what happened.  Nadiya didn't call him out for playing both sides, she just commented that he was just like a girl because he's gay, and so he should vote with the girls.  That was offensive.  Period.

 

 

Thank you for this, Rick Kitchen.  You summed it up better than I ever could have.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Turtle

[Guest]

This brings up something I've always wondered about.  Does the show require that the tribes have certain survival gear/tools by certain times in the game, earned or not?  I remember watching, in one of the earlier seasons, and thinking that the nature of the luxury comps had suddenly and drastically changed and it coincidentally happened with a pair of tribes that I was sure was on the verge of death because they were so inept (or unlucky) that they were going to need to change the name of the show. 

 

This episode, Probst's brow-beating and threats over not taking the replacement flint was over the top and the guys changed their position on a dime which made me wonder how edited it was and if there was offscreen explaining of how things would be and they didn't actually have a choice.

 

And of course, cynic that I am, I bet its because of an insurance policy rather than not wanting these people to become violently ill because they can't boil water.

 

They don't have to boil water.  They're provided with potable water.  I don't know how they eat raw rice, though. It wouldn't surprise me if production supplied cooked rice in cases where they couldn't cook it themselves.   We know they have basic safety needs met off camera, like frequent sunscreen and medications.  

[KimberStormer]

Before laughing at anyone believing that Val could have two idols, let's not forget that just last season (which they've seen, as Jon compared himself to J'Tia) there were in fact two idols hidden at the same camp at the same time for Tony to dig up.  For all they knew Val might have had the Yul/Tony invicible idol to save herself with.  I can see a conversation going like: "Two idols?  Who does she think she's fooling?" "Hey, don't put anything past the morons in charge of this show, look what happened last time with Tony" and of course that would be left on the cutting room floor.

 

Now let's laugh anyway because it's still so silly to think she could have two idols

 

Overall I find I can't fault John Rocker if it's true he's never seen the show (and frankly after the Spencer/Tony coin flip auction thing last season, I could do without superfans), except of course for the sexism.  (Although he mentioned that athletic guys tend to go out pre-merge...so he's probably seen something.)  He tried to form an exile alliance with Jeremy and Val--options, along with his main Orange Dudes alliance.  He figured out the idol clue (yes yes I know, but come on that was an easy clue.  That would have been the last clue back in the old days when the clues got more and more explicit each episode.)  Val had no reason to lie to him--he came to her with a story that he had no reason in the world to invent, about sharing the clue with Jeremy and trying to help her--so he believed her when she gave him her ridiculous two-idol story.  He tipped her off that not only should she use one of her fantasy idols, but she didn't have to waste the other because it would be Baylor instead of Jacquiline (sp?).  Now he wasn't clever enough to realize she could just vote Baylor and not use any idols, but then that wouldn't have worked anyway, as we saw.  Frankly, I think if he's really not a Survivor fan, he should get a very good mark for this episode, it showed a solid Survivor mind, minus some nuances like holy crap of course she doesn't have two idols.

 

So John Rocker interviews that he's upset with Val for not playing her idol because now Jeremy is going to think that Rocker betrayed him by letting Val get voted off, when that wasn't Rocker's plan at all.  Then he writes Val's name down.  Yeah, Jeremy is going to jump to a real wrong conclusion, Rocker.  You're so misunderstood.  Asshat.

 

What else was he supposed to do?  Throw away his game entirely by voting against his alliance?  They were splitting the vote to flush the idol, that's how it works.  (Except in Nicaragua where they were apparently too stupid to understand why they were splitting votes, except that it was something you do when there's an idol.)  She was going home, no question, there's nothing he could have done about it, of course he's going to vote with the group.  And he's right to be mad because she lied to him for no reason at all and it does indeed make him look bad through no fault of his own.  Luckily the dude is a huge jackass so it's not that frustrating, but still.

 

I agree with the apparent majority that Val has nobody but herself to blame for going out.  Josh seems to be overthinking, although he was right this time.  There are a lot of amusing lunkheads out there this season.  And nobody much to root for.  I am baffled how anyone can have an opinion on Baylor at all, but the fact that people hate her for some reason I can't identify makes me want to like her. 

 

But the main tihng I'm feeling about this season is that it is bringing out the absolute worst in Jeff Probst.  I boycotted BvW because Colton but I heard a lot of "it's actually really good"; could that possibly be true?  Was there this much glurge?  Was there this much "HOW DOES IT FEEL WHEN LOVED ONE???"  I don't know if I've ever seen his manly-man thing in such high gear before, too, and wow was he pissy with the flint thing.  How dare they play for their best advantage in Survivor, the game best known for encouraging people to make square deals and never try to get one over on someone?  THE NERVE!

 

They all should know that IIs cannot be used after the merge so sharing the clue with your EI rival is a good way to go.  Should you make the merge you have someone who appreciates your sharing.  And it could help your partner if they are aligned.  Nothing lost in sharing, really.  

 

I think maybe you're confused with some other show or something?  The idols are good for the rest of the game.

[Wings]

 

I think maybe you're confused with some other show or something?  The idols are good for the rest of the game.

 

 

Nope.  Just an addled brain!  They cannot use it past the final 5 or something like that.  

[Trick Question]

On the plus side, at least Reed needn't worry about Drew ever writing down his name.

 

What would be the protocol be during Tribal Council if someone actually wrote down the wrong name of the person they meant to eliminate?  Like, Drew strolls up to the parchment and somehow still writes down 'Josh' when he means to vote for Reed.  Would the vote not count?  Would Probst stop everything and ask for clarification, like he did way back in S5 when Clay wrote down some obscure nickname rather than Ghandia's actual name?

[Haleth]

The crew would catch it when he holds it up to the camera.  I'm guessing they'd stop him and ask him who he meant before he left the voting booth.

[ProfCrash]

This is the first season with Exile island that I've watched, and I like it so far. It doesn't radically alter the game like Redemption Island; it just gives a small opportunity every few days for players to associate cross-team. Pretty cool actually, though I wouldn't want it in every season.

Dalton Ross covered this, Redemption Island was suppose to happen this year. It was promised by Jeff and the Producers but they got rid of it at the last minute. I think the overall feedback on Redemption Island was bad enough that Production caved and cancelled it's return. Exile Island is where Redemption Island was suppose to be.

 

Personally, I am thrilled that they got rid of RI and I like EI. I think I preferred it when the person went solo but the two people going this season could be interesting if the people being sent were not idiots. Val was at a disadvantage because she was sent without getting to know her tribe but I don't think that it was that much of a disadvantage. I get the feeling that Val's game play was far more of an issue. I realize that there is a ton of footage left on the flop but Val's body language was never good. She was always shown as being very closed. Toss in her lie about two immunity idols and she pretty much screwed herself.

 

I do think that someone who is smart will be able to send an ally to EI with their loved one to start to establish a cross tribe alliance but who knows.

[Special K]

 

Exile Island is where Redemption Island was suppose to be.

 

 

Actually, the place they have been holding the reward challenges (with one competitor from each team) looks to me a lot like the Redemption Island arenas of yore.

[peachmangosteen]

I don't really understand this. So Julie gets a pass and is still respected while she's dating a man who has in the past shown himself to be racist and homophobic and even he's supposedly changed, demonstrated last night he's still clearly a raging sexist. Yet Reed loses respect for dating Josh simply because some have made the assumption that Josh is using the show to further his Broadway career? A likely assumption perhaps but still just an assumption. 

 

I mean, I didn't say it was understandable! I like Julie more than I like Reed, I guess, so it's easier for me to forgive the fact that she actually likes John Rocker. Also, Josh just really bugs me. It's not really explainable and perhaps irrational, but I really just can't stand him.

 

I guess I also dislike her because I pretty much dislike every single guy on the yellow tribe, and she was instrumental in setting about the demise of the women's alliance.  If she and Josh are a secret team she could have easily convinced him to vote off Dale last week.

 

This is probably the biggest reason I dislike Baylor. The yellow guys are awful and she decides to save them. I am very exited for when they cut her though. She's gonna be so shocked and probably do that "I'm not crying wahhh" thing again, which I will enjoy.

 

It was one of those typical things you'd see at a pool or the beach and is completely unnoticeable unless some cameraman and editor decide that it must be focused on repeatedly ... In short, I was irritated at the cameraman and editor ...

 

This. Ah, the sexism, how lovely.

 

Okay, I've got a twin! I love my twin! Womb buddies for life and all that!! But, I really didn't like Natalie implying that her relationship with Natalya was more special than the other relationships on the show, because they had been together for 28 years or whatever! 

 

That annoyed me, too. It reminded me of when Terry acted as if a husband/wife pair is obviously much more important than a mother/son or any other relationship basically. Although it wasn't as egregiously arrogant as Terry's bullshit.

Edited October 3, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Nutjob]

 

She's gonna be so shocked and probably do that "I'm not crying wahhh" thing again, which I will enjoy.

Yeah, I'm really not feeling Baylor at all, either. Not just for the bullcrap with the guys' alliance, but for the crying during the challenge. OK, you split your lip. You're crying? Like that? Really? I mean, I'd like to think she just did it to make her mom feel guilty so she could win (which was the result anyway), but I just can't give her that much credit. I just sat there shaking my head, going, "What a wuss."

[BC Mama]

Dalton Ross covered this, Redemption Island was suppose to happen this year. It was promised by Jeff and the Producers but they got rid of it at the last minute. I think the overall feedback on Redemption Island was bad enough that Production caved and cancelled it's return. Exile Island is where Redemption Island was suppose to be.

 

Personally, I am thrilled that they got rid of RI and I like EI. I think I preferred it when the person went solo but the two people going this season could be interesting if the people being sent were not idiots. Val was at a disadvantage because she was sent without getting to know her tribe but I don't think that it was that much of a disadvantage. I get the feeling that Val's game play was far more of an issue. I realize that there is a ton of footage left on the flop but Val's body language was never good. She was always shown as being very closed. Toss in her lie about two immunity idols and she pretty much screwed herself.

 

I do think that someone who is smart will be able to send an ally to EI with their loved one to start to establish a cross tribe alliance but who knows.

 

 

Actually, the place they have been holding the reward challenges (with one competitor from each team) looks to me a lot like the Redemption Island arenas of yore.

 

I'm thinking we're going to be seeing a lot more one on one challenges this season. I'm sure the production staff do not want to waste their carefully planned challenges!

[Tryangle]

And, I think the reason Julie sat out of the challenge was because her team was concerned her giant breasts would throw her balance off. A valid concern.

 

Probably the reason that makes most sense to me too. The higher center of gravity would be a hindrance.

[Nashville]

Toss in her lie about two immunity idols and she pretty much screwed herself.

That lie of Val's was moronic. Just as moronic was Val not taking the initiative (as her husband did) to try to turn the EI disadvantage into an alliance-building opportunity with Keith, and shared the clue with him. Game-wise they're still light-years away from the Merge so sharing the clue would have had negligible or no negative impact on her game, while sharing meant Keith could've gone back with (a) a potentially solid alliance for Jeremy and (b) info which could benefit both Keith AND Jeremy - and Val could've returned with some basis for working an alliance with Wes. Instead, both went back with empty (Keith) or near-empty (Val) pockets, and I felt her refusal to share actually fostered a little ill will with Keith - although I think Jeremy was able to mostly smooth that out.

In any case - if (a) Val had been able to generate some kind of connection with both Wes AND Rocker, and (b) not lied about idols she didn't have, then her future in this game might have been very different; instead, it's nonexistent.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Nashville

[Wandering Snark]

Re: The flint...

Or maybe a monkey took it.

 

I totally would have run with that instead of admitting I did it. "I guess it was too shiny for those little thieving bastards to resist grabbing it." That could have worked! Also odd they usually edit out them talking of previous contestants but they kept in his "Oh no, am I now this tribe's J'tia??" speech.  Oh and I doubted his "own up to it hard", or however he referred to it, plan was the best way to go. I'm in the "if I make a huge mistake the last thing I want is everyone talking about it and want to sweep it under the rug and move on asap" camp myself.