S06.E02: Trust Issues

[thewhiteowl]

I also agree that Eli needs to get that when Alicia says she's not running, she's in earnest. Unfortunately, I fear the show means to reward his "No means 'Please wear me down more, Eli; I find your perverse persistence endearing, rather than tiresome and, frankly, creepy'" doggedness.

 

 I think Eli fully gets that she is earnest and doesn't give a crap about her earnestness. He thinks that if she knows she could win, she would and should run anyway. 

[Broderbits]

 

Eli gets a conk on the head and wakes up thinking he's the Emcee from Cabaret?

 

Please please please let this happen! If St. Elsewhere can dress up doctors as ZZ Top, TGW can give us Cabaret.

[marceline]

 

Eli gets a conk on the head and wakes up thinking he's the Emcee from Cabaret?

 

Eli doesn't need a conk on the head. If he thought it would help one of his clients, he'd sing naked in the street.

 

Honestly, one of the things I adore about this show is the way it uses Broadway talent. Years ago, there was a thread on the BroadwayWorld.com boards that tracked TGW's use of theatre people. I wonder if that's still going.

[lunastartron]

Alicia has always been a hypocrite and, occasionally, aggressively unappealing but this episode curiously pushed her near irredeemable territory for me. Her refusal of the interest-free bail loan was infuriating; she's "principled" and sanctimonious enough to contentedly consign Cary to the dangers of general pop. based on some sliding ruler of morality (drug money: okay; politically motivated money: worthy of pearl clutching) but entitled enough to demand that Peter jeopardize his own professional interests vis-a-vis remortgaging. I totally concurred with Robin's arguments, her grandstanding made no sense, and neither, practically speaking, did her confrontation of Castro. I will applaud the Kings for consistency; their protagonist's awfulness has always manifested itself in relatively subtle ways, from her repressed tantrum over Caitlin's hiring to her willingness to interrupt Finn's post-gunshot convalescence due to her narcissistic need for validation of her fantasies that will's last moments were all about her.

Also, I don't get Kalinda's refusal to clue Bishop in on who his informant is considering her silence is demonstrably imperiling innocent people.

[angelita100]

Haven't watched the show in a couple of years but I fell asleep and when I woke up my mom, who has never watched the show, had it on because of Taye Diggs.  So I saw the last 1/2 hour and have to say it was boring. Perturbed that Diane joined Alicia and Carey's firm.  And Cary, even with storyline is boring.  But as usual his story is all about Alicia anyway.   So have L&G just gone away now. Are they even around to lose every case to Alicia?  

[pennben]

 

Also, I don't get Kalinda's refusal to clue Bishop in on who his informant is considering her silence is demonstrably imperiling innocent people.

 

Maybe she didn't want to be the one to call the shot?  If she spills, she kills.  If she doesn't, he can't be sure and maybe they both live. 

 

Corporate minutes be damned, there's a lot going down. 

 

P.S.  Cary's hypotheticals don't pass the smell test either; who does that and why would Cary think it was cool to trade "hypotheticals" with drug runners? Come on.....he played, well "this is what I would do in that movie" to actual criminals?  Cause that makes sense.

 

The stupid...it should be shared on the show.

Edited September 30, 2014 by pennben

[Sandman]

Eli doesn't need a conk on the head. If he thought it would help one of his clients, he'd sing naked in the street.

 

No doubt the framing device would be extraneous; truthfully, the bonk on the head would just be to amuse me.

[kwnyc]

Alicia needs to take a step back. When Peter is the voice of reason and the conscience of the group, you need to re-think things.

 

I think this is going to be a pivotal early season moment: it's when Alicia begins to use the kind of justifications that Peter did on his road from idealistic leader to party politician. Will she acknowledge that he was right? (And yes, he was). Or, will she hold it against him and start building her own storyline that will allow her to skirt ethical issues in the name of helping someone?

 

Will she talk herself into running because it's for the greater good of someone else? Or, to "protect" herself from being just Peter's wife and in a startup law firm? 

 

If they can manage the details better, the change of Alicia Florrick from The Good Wife into...whatever she's about to become could be riveting.

[Cattitude]

I liked the episode and the use of most of the cast in one show, only thing I missed was Clarke. I hope NL becomes available soon.

 

Loved the blocking on Cary's return. MEOW he looked hott with scruff and dressed.

 

Diane wore the hell out of clothes. And I loved the swagger as they all left LG.

 

Loved Peter calling Alicia out about the second morgage.

[fivestone]

I'm back to not liking Finn again. His smirky conduct is so unpleasant. (There was a whole lot of lawyer-smirking going on in this episode.) If he truly thinks Cary is guilty, then that's one thing, but if he doesn't think so, then he's A Bad Man.

 

Alicia can't be State's Attorney. Then we'd have two law firms without the star of the show in them. What would be their point of existing? I really don't think signs point to her running, because that would represent a total backtrack on the character she has supposedly built up during these seasons. Doing something because a man (Eli) wants her to? Doing it despite his refusing to hear her, "No"? Doing it even though she doesn't want the job and hates politics? Doing it in spite of being someone whose natural sympathies lie on the defense side of things? (imo) Doing it in the face of the obvious conflict of interest with her husband the governor? Giving up a whole lot of money to do it? Dumping her law firm she has just started, and all the people in it?  I just can't buy it. Which doesn't mean the show won't do it!

 

The show has already established (last episode, I think) that she can continue her law firm and be State's Attorney. Eli is smart enough to know that she would never run if it meant giving up her firm - she's worked too hard for that.

Edited September 30, 2014 by fivestone

[BearCat49]

So, you are saying a bad word choice matters more than what the substance of the transaction actually is?

 

I disagree.

 

Look neither of us know what really happened, but as we can see between us, there is a legitimate dispute as to what the word "advance" means when Alicia said it.  I'd be disappointed if no one looked beyond the recorded words to the actual facts. That would be silly, in my opinion. I suspect her lawyers would be able to open up the minutes to question what she meant when she said "advance". 

 

PS:  Just rewatched the WW clip, I fell into a trap, it was from HMS Pinafore, not Pirates of Penzance.  I was wrong above in my musical reference, but here is breaking into song!

 

Alicia, an experienced attorney and the managing partner of F/A understands that the word "advance" means "unearned" fees.  (If not, she needs to step down as m/p, at minimum.)  There's no dispute or ambiguity WRT that word, IMHO. 

 

I do not know that Alicia made a poor word choice.  As a mere viewer of the mythical firm F/A, I have no access to either the legal or financial records of F/A.  W/o them, I can not definitely state that Alicia erred when she uttered the word, "advance".  All I know is what she said in an official p/s meeting, duly noted and authorized in the p/s records, i.e. that the funds are unearned.  Needless to say, w/o any other evidence, I believe her.

 

And, Alicia had a gaggle of attorneys in front of her who could have corrected her if she'd made an error.  They didn't.  She would have appreciated said correction, if it was appropriate.  As it stands now, the firm authorized the use of client trust funds to cover a personal expense of its name partner, Cary.

 

That's an ethics violation, plain and simple.  If the (supposed) loan could be considered an asset (it's not), that would also represent an ethics violation.  Firms can not simply transfer (supposed) assets to replace cold, hard, immediately available cash in trust accounts. 

 

Alicia could correct the record in less than a minute, if the "substance of the transaction" is indeed, something different and the fees were (truly) earned.  Or, instead of spending that minute, Alicia can face the loss of her license and spend countless hours and $$$ in legal fees,  responding to bar association counsel's discovery and giving depositions, trying to explain that she didn't really mean what she said, even though she knew someone was recording it for the p/s minutes.  (BTW, when she expends those hours on her personal, bar association matter, she and F/A also incur a huge opportunity cost, equal to her billable hours.)  Did Bill Clinton enjoy being on camera, in front of his wife and the public, explaining, "It depends on what the definition of the word is, is."

 

When Will used trust account funds, the substance of the transaction was a loan, correct?  He didn't mean to steal, correct?  The "substance of the transaction" was that he intended to replace it.  That makes it a loan, correct?  And, as a young, inexperienced attorney, he was good for it, correct?  Did Will ever completely recover his reputation?  Not IMHO.

 

Well, the bar association will never discover the error so it's NBD (no big deal), correct?  Well, let's say a political rival of Peter's wants to get to Peter through his wife?  Happened previously on TGW, correct?  As Peter wisely pointed out, if the document's out there, the evidence doesn't go away.

 

I hope, for Alicia's sake, that they had earned, available funds on hand to spring Cary.  If so, then they need to correct the corporate records, ASAP.  Otherwise, Alicia may have some 'splaining to do to the Bar Association.  (Does Alicia want to waste many, many hours locating (probably years down the road) and being deposed about the p/s accounting records?)  Unfortunately, it's not the facts, it's the evidence.  Currently, the evidence, according to Alicia, indicates they violated the ethics code. 

 

And, if one of her underlings believed her at the meeting, doesn't know that earned fees were available (if they are), and doesn't realize the record was corrected (if she erred and a correction was warranted, which I don't know), that individual may eventually rat her out, forcing her to waste countless hours defending herself to the bar. 

 

Experienced attorneys know better than to make these stupid mistakes;  they value their own primary asset, i.e. their right to practice law.  In real life, that would (and should) be more important to her than her partner's freedom.  (Sorry, Cary!)

 

TGW, unless you purposely made this error as a plot device, please, please, please retain a legal advisor.

 

All of the above, JMHO.

[BearCat49]

Maybe she didn't want to be the one to call the shot?  If she spills, she kills.  If she doesn't, he can't be sure and maybe they both live. 

 

Corporate minutes be damned, there's a lot going down. 

 

P.S.  Cary's hypotheticals don't pass the smell test either; who does that and why would Cary think it was cool to trade "hypotheticals" with drug runners? Come on.....he played, well "this is what I would do in that movie" to actual criminals?  Cause that makes sense.

 

The stupid...it should be shared on the show.

 

Agree, Kalinda didn't want to be responsible for the offing of another witness.  I didn't buy the hypotheticals, either.  Did Cary accidentally cross the line?

 

Alicia made the decision to represent Bishop.  If that's her attitude WRT her responsibilities as managing partner, the bar association may remind her that you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.  

 

JMHO

Eli doesn't need a conk on the head. If he thought it would help one of his clients, he'd sing naked in the street.

 

Honestly, one of the things I adore about this show is the way it uses Broadway talent. Years ago, there was a thread on the BroadwayWorld.com boards that tracked TGW's use of theatre people. I wonder if that's still going.

 

I love it b/c they're all so skilled at their craft, IMHO.

Edited September 30, 2014 by BearCat49

[ShellSeeker]

I don't know how much longer I'll stick with this show. Alicia is becoming a very unpleasant person. She tries to railroad over everyone to get her own way and gets shrill and sanctimonious when she's not successful.

[lunastartron]

The thing about Kalinda's (understandable) eagerness to avoid blood on her hands is that passivity/disengagement is an active choice in and of itself, and one that has/will precipitate more harm, numerically speaking, than giving Bishop a heads up. One man is dead unnecessarily because of Bishop's lack of discernment. She's not responsible for that, but at the end of the ep she is literally in a position to save someone's life (not to mention possibly Cary's, functionally speaking) by containing the carnage. She's streetsmart enough to know Bishop can countenance the loss of two runners, so the choice is between a) both die or b) one does . . . I also really hope there's more of an explanation as to what's on the recording and how Cary is, in fact, not guilty because I agree that the one provided is really weak. But then last season I would have like some further resolution about Jeffrey Grant and that never came to fruition.

[UsernameFatigue]

It appeared to be Will when I backed up the dvr but I wasn't 100% certain.

 

The pic is of Diane and Hillary. Diane is on the left, Hillary is on the right wearing a navy blue outfit. The pic ends around the hips so can't tell if it is a dress or pantsuit she is wearing. Will would have been a more fitting pic for Diane to carry out of LG, but maybe there is some reason TPTB chose not to show JC's face.

[MaggieCat]

Her refusal of the interest-free bail loan was infuriating; she's "principled" and sanctimonious enough to contentedly consign Cary to the dangers of general pop. based on some sliding ruler of morality (drug money: okay; politically motivated money: worthy of pearl clutching)

 

The politically motivated money had incredibly vague strings attached and was coming from someone she has no involvement with. There are far too many unknowns in what he might do in the future. All Bishop would expect in return is for them to represent him, which is something they've already made the decision to do. To me that looks more like 'not making more problems than they already have' than 'some sliding ruler of morality'.

[shapeshifter]

I just realized the likely reason they had Neil Gross's wife on instead of Neil himself is because John Benjamin Hickey, the actor who plays Gross on TGW, is currently starring in my current favorite show, Manhattan (which, if you don't know, is set in New Mexico during WWII, not New York City).

And we're not likely to see Diane's husband any time soon either, because IMDb shows he has a very full dance card. Good for him!, and good for TGW for at least mentioning him.

Upthread people were commenting on how Taye Diggs' character (Dean) violated Diane's request of secrecy when he brought half a dozen women and minority LGs with him. I see this as potentially making it not just Diane v. Alicia and Cary. I see it as Diane using the Women & Minorities ploy to get Dean to come with her to be her ally when voting against Cary and Alicia, but Dean called her bluff. Anyone else see it like that?

...Cary's hypotheticals don't pass the smell test either; who does that and why would Cary think it was cool to trade "hypotheticals" with drug runners? Come on.....he played, well "this is what I would do in that movie" to actual criminals?  Cause that makes sense....

--which is why I hopefully asked upthread if the two Car[e]ys' voices were similar--but, alas, no. But we still have the doctored tape theory.

[NutMeg]

Some people (such as penbenn) raised the issue, but for me the big elephant in the room was what Cary actually said. I know, we're supposed to root for him, and I like him alright, but when you represent drug dealers, why oh why would you discuss (tape or no tape) potential way for "hypothetical drug dealers" to get around rules and not be caught. Maybe I've missed something, but to me either Cary is an idiot or he's complicit. Either way, I thing the writing was off, I don't think that is what I was supposed to get.

 

Interesting conundrum Kalinda is faced with: give the name of the guy you really want to survive and risk having him killed? give the name of the guy you really want to survive and risk having the other one killed? give the name of the guy you do not need and hope he's the one who's killed? Because it's Kalinda, I trust that she'll make the best judgment call but really, with Bishop, anything goes!

 

Not sure how this new LG reboot without Will but with Cary will go. If it means we have David Lee as opposing counsel every week, I'll like it. If it does create a wedge between Cary/Alicia, I won't. And what about Kalinda? I suppose she will follow, but she might not, her reasons for not switching might still be valid - time will tell.

 

Please, please, Kings, don't make Alicia run, or if you have to (because Alicia/Eli interactions are always gold), please wait until next season. I'm way more interested (and invested) in the new firm than in any other potential campaign.             

[romantic idiot]

TGW, unless you purposely made this error as a plot device, please, please, please retain a legal advisor.

 

All of the above, JMHO.

So how should they have phrased it - an early payment of the fees due - without making the dialogue clunky? if I'm not mistaken, based on discussions over on TWoP, TGW routinely get a lot of the legal details wrong - evidence discovered at last minute, depositions etc. In that scheme of things I'm not sure the Kings would have prioritised accuracy over a word that would seemingly convey the message. But I could be wrong. They are setting up a Will-gate for Alicia. And I still have to ask, isn't it a moot point because those moneys would be coming back the minute Cary appears in court? And we've seen no reason why Cary wouldn't be able to get the 1.3M loan for himself based on his financials - he just couldn't physically do the running around and signing of the papers and presumably, be successfully vetted by the bank. But, honestly, at this point we do have to agee to disagree. 

 

I don't know how much longer I'll stick with this show. Alicia is becoming a very unpleasant person. She tries to railroad over everyone to get her own way and gets shrill and sanctimonious when she's not successful.

This is nothing new. This is how Alicia has been since Season 3 consistently - and in glimpse, earlier. 

The thing about Kalinda's (understandable) eagerness to avoid blood on her hands is that passivity/disengagement is an active choice in and of itself, and one that has/will precipitate more harm, numerically speaking, than giving Bishop a heads up. One man is dead unnecessarily because of Bishop's lack of discernment. She's not responsible for that, but at the end of the ep she is literally in a position to save someone's life (not to mention possibly Cary's, functionally speaking) by containing the carnage. She's streetsmart enough to know Bishop can countenance the loss of two runners, so the choice is between a) both die or b) one does . . . I also really hope there's more of an explanation as to what's on the recording and how Cary is, in fact, not guilty because I agree that the one provided is really weak. But then last season I would have like some further resolution about Jeffrey Grant and that never came to fruition.

But Kalinda would be responsible for killing a cop / CI - and it would come back to haunt her professionally. I think Kalinda used to be attached to the State's Attorney's office and has close ties there. She's not giving up a cop. And there's no way Blondie wouldn't spill if the cop / CI got killed. 

[Kel Varnsen]

How the hell did Taye Diggs recruit all those other lawyers without David Lee having any idea. I mean David Lee has always been a giant weasel, but he has also always been super paranoid when it comes to L/G power plays. He has had been very in tune with respect to rumours that fly around in that office. So this whole thing happening completely under his nose seems like a strech.

 

 

Yeah, I find Bishop really chilling, the way Stringer was chilling on The Wire. Even though nobody can ever top Idris Elba, in my view.

 

I kind of prefer Bishop to Stringer Bell, at least so far. Mostly because I always thought Stringer Bell was kind of a dumbass and at least for now Bishop hasn't really shown himself to be a dumb drug king pin (not to say he won't).

 

 

I though the epi was okay but I'm still of the opinion (as from last week) that no way does Alicia running for State Attoryey not get a big wrench in the machinery when the Lemond Bishop issue comes up.  How could it not and why doesn't Eli seem to have a clue about that?



I don't get that either. I mean if Peter is self aware enough to realize that he can't sign the mortgage papers, how is he (or Eli) not aware enough to realize that if you are the head of a law firm that defends Chicago's biggest drug king pin, then running for State's Attorney might be difficult.

 

And, Alicia had a gaggle of attorneys in front of her who could have corrected her if she'd made an error.  They didn't.  She would have appreciated said correction, if it was appropriate.  As it stands now, the firm authorized the use of client trust funds to cover a personal expense of its name partner, Cary.

 

The trust thing is interesting, I didn't even realize it. That said if they did get money from Chumhum that was supposed to go into a trust, couldn't they just walk into a bank and take out a loan for the 1.3 million they need and just use the trust account as collateral?  I mean if you are the wife of the governor and that money is in the bank (even in a trust) you are probably a pretty safe risk for a loan.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I find Bishop really chilling, the way Stringer was chilling on The Wire.

ITA - they are both charming when they want to be but cool and detached when necessary, and they can both be scary without raising their voices. I know they are cold blooded killers, but I can't help but like them.

 

I'm a musical theater fan so I'm a fan of Taye Diggs and his ex-wife Idina Menzel.  I love how they use Broadway stars on this show, I want Christine Baranski, Natahan Lane, Taye Diggs and Michael Cerveris to just burst out into song in a very special episode of the Good Wife, maybe a fundraiser for Governor Florrick, any excuse to hear them sing.

I will always have a soft spot for both Taye and Idina because of Rent. I even tried to watch Private Practice (I lasted for one season but even the combination of Taye, Tim Daly, and Audra McDonald couldn't convince me to stick with it any longer). I too love the musical theater actors they get on this show and I would loooooove if they found a way to get them to sing in an episode!

 

This might be a stupid question, but when Bishop said that Cary's bail money would no longer be available if he had to testify, how exactly did he get the money back? Did Alicia have to go to the court and ask them to return the cashier's check they submitted?

 

If I were Diane, I would be mad that I specifically told Taye Diggs that NO ONE ELSE AT THE FIRM knew I was leaving and then he went and blabbed to at least six other people. I mean, it's great that she's arriving at Florrick Agos with seven allies from Lockhart Gardner, but dude, that guy can't keep a secret! My two concerns for FA are (1) how they are going to manage to pay eight additional salaries, seven of which were not approved ahead of time and (2) whether one of the people coming with them is just a mole for David Lee and Louis Canning.

 

I guess that since Diane is supposed to be bringing $38 million in revenue with her, they can afford to pay Taye Diggs and the six department heads, but still. And who knows how many of her clients will end up staying at LG because David and Louis are telling everyone about Cary's drug charge? When Taye Diggs told Diane he was coming to FA with her and then said, "They're coming too," I was afraid they were going to turn around and see David and Louis in the doorway waving at them.

 

I hope one of Diane's conditions for coming to FA was having an office with a door. I still can't believe that a law firm would think it's okay to have no doors, walls, or privacy for their clients.

[Kel Varnsen]

This might be a stupid question, but when Bishop said that Cary's bail money would no longer be available if he had to testify, how exactly did he get the money back? Did Alicia have to go to the court and ask them to return the cashier's check they submitted?

Also if the SA had the information about Rojas and his club and the death certificates, why haven't they turned that information over to the FBI/IRS and why isn't Rojas in jail?  Yes I know that Bishop is the big prize, but taking out one of his top lieutenants and hurting his ability to launder millions of dollars would be a pretty damaging blow to his organization.

 

For that matter wouldn't a health club be a really bad business for laundering money. I mean I thought money launderers preferred cash only businesses like laundry or car washes or bars so that the revenue they bring in isn't traceable. Health clubs would be the exact opposite of that, since I doubt anyone would pay their membership with cash, and even if they did there is a membership information file attached to each person paying.  The only way it would work I would think is if your membership list was all legit and then you had a daily non-member drop in rate, and that was where the dirty cash came in.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[Sandman]

The thing about Kalinda's (understandable) eagerness to avoid blood on her hands is that passivity/disengagement is an active choice in and of itself, and one that has/will precipitate more harm... She's streetsmart enough to know Bishop can countenance the loss of two runners, so the choice is between a) both die or b) one does ...

 

The one who was wearing the wire was described as a favourite of Bishop's, potentially more than just a runner. I'm not sure that Kalinda knows for certain what the effect would be if she exposes his betrayal. If she gives up the CI, it's probable that the runner would be spared, but I wouldn't call it certain. Cary is potentially left with no witnesses at all.

 

I have to say I agree that the "hypotheticals" conversation played out in a way that seemed like everyone was using euphemisms; if Cary actually did talk to real drug dealers drawing parallels with movies, how can it not have occurred to him that the conversation was essentially a coded message about Improving Your Drug Running 101? 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Sandman

[merylinkid]

That said if they did get money from Chumhum that was supposed to go into a trust, couldn't they just walk into a bank and take out a loan for the 1.3 million they need and just use the trust account as collateral?

It's not a trust account in a traditional sense. It's an attorney trust account and the money in there is not the attorney's. Not in any way shape or form. It is the client's money. And only the client's money. If the client gets another attorney or the case finishes and there is still money left in there, it goes back to the client.

 

Attorneys cannot take out loans against their trust account. Again not their money. If they default on the loan, then the bank would take money out of the trust to pay it -- but it would be the client's money the bank was taking.

 

Real attorneys do not mess around with their trust accounts. It is zero tolerance for messing with it. You lose your license. Not a 6 month suspension like will got. You are DISBARRED.

[marceline]

 

I have to say I agree that the "hypotheticals" conversation played out in a way that seemed like everyone was using euphemisms; if Cary actually did talk to real drug dealers drawing parallels with movies, how can it not have occurred to him that the conversation was a essentially coded message about Improving Your Drug Running 101?

 

I'm not going to believe anything until we, the audience, get to hear that tape.

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm not going to believe anything until we, the audience, get to hear that tape.

Yea without actually hearing the type who is to know if Cary was talking in hypotheticals to actual drug dealers and giving them hints or if he was just having a friendly conversation about stupid people in movies.

[MrWhyt]

But Kalinda would be responsible for killing a cop / CI

A CI is a Confidential informant, a snitch, not a cop.

[Lisin]

And I still have to ask, isn't it a moot point because those moneys would be coming back the minute Cary appears in court?

 

In the real world, ethically if what Chumhum did was "advance" their payment to FA in the form of a trust or a retainer or anything like that FA is fully screwed, even if it goes immediately back when Cary appears in court. Attorneys cannot touch trust money at all until they have earned it, and billed for it.

 

I'm assuming that what the Kings meant to say was "Chumhum is loaning FA 1.3 million, and the repayment will be FA doing 1.3 million worth of work for them for 'free' and this is all specifically to get Cary out of jail" because I think that's kind of what actually "happened." Clearly the Kings don't fully understand the ethics requirements of client funds, and they had this nice Chumhum McGuffin all set up and just went with it. What's maddening about that is they did do an entire story line (mentioned several times above) about Will getting suspended for this very thing so it's confusing for them not to understand it. 

[Sandman]

Well, in Will's case it was spent on something disreputable, like gambling, and not getting Cary out of nasty jail. (Didn't I read somewhere that one or other King actually has a law degree? I would have thought the grasp of ethics would be firmer in the writers' room, but apparently not. Or did I just imagine that?)

 

Yea without actually hearing the tape who is to know if Cary was talking in hypotheticals to actual drug dealers and giving them hints or if he was just having a friendly conversation about stupid people in movies.

 

Well, that's kind of my point, actually: what the runners said about the conversation sounded highly suspicious (to me, anyway), but it was treated by the others in the scene as if the explanation made everything all better.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Sandman

[caracas1914]

I hate how they completely disabled Cary in order to rush through Dianne being approved  a full partner of the little law firm that can or can't.. 

 

The Deus Ex Machina of the Taylor Diggs character conveniently luring even David Lee protegees out of Lockhart Gardner was a quite a big pill to swallow considering that he was a newly introduced character.    My guess was all those people were fans of Dianne and what she represented to the firm so the news of her defection was enough to persuade them.  Either that or people really really hate David Lee.

Edited September 30, 2014 by caracas1914

[romantic idiot]

In the real world, ethically if what Chumhum did was "advance" their payment to FA in the form of a trust or a retainer or anything like that FA is fully screwed, even if it goes immediately back when Cary appears in court. Attorneys cannot touch trust money at all until they have earned it, and billed for it.

 

I'm assuming that what the Kings meant to say was "Chumhum is loaning FA 1.3 million, and the repayment will be FA doing 1.3 million worth of work for them for 'free' and this is all specifically to get Cary out of jail" because I think that's kind of what actually "happened." Clearly the Kings don't fully understand the ethics requirements of client funds, and they had this nice Chumhum McGuffin all set up and just went with it. What's maddening about that is they did do an entire story line (mentioned several times above) about Will getting suspended for this very thing so it's confusing for them not to understand it. 

This seems convoluted. Isn't the simplest explanation that ChumHum paid their fees earlier than they would normally have to help Cary out? The fees were already earned because of the case just settled? I don't think the Kings really care enough about legal details to be careful about how one word "advance" was going to be interpreted in the legal world vs. the normal world. Unless of course they are setting up for FA to lose their license in which case never mind me. 

 

A CI is a Confidential informant, a snitch, not a cop.

I know, hence I said cop / CI i.e. cop or CI. I apologise if my use of the forward slash was unclear. I do think Kalinda would feel worse about getting a CI killed, rather than a drug dealer, even if he is a lying s*b because he's on the side of the so-called good guys. But I may be wrong. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by romantic idiot

[possibilities]

Upthread people were commenting on how Taye Diggs' character (Dean) violated Diane's request of secrecy when he brought half a dozen women and minority LGs with him. I see this as potentially making it not just Diane v. Alicia and Cary. I see it as Diane using the Women & Minorities ploy to get Dean to come with her to be her ally when voting against Cary and Alicia, but Dean called her bluff. Anyone else see it like that?

That's an interesting idea. It is going to bore me if the show turns into yet another ego-driven power struggle with Diane vs Alicia/Cary. Haven't we seen that already!? But if it turns into "idealists vs the old guard" it will be interesting to see how Cary chooses sides, and whether Alicia and Diane object to being seen as the blockade against the upstarts, or whether they actually do embrace it and want what the newcomers want also. I think it could go either way. And it might be interesting to see how a firm like that went up against my beloved Tascioni. Would her awesomeness look so awesome if it was played against Our heroes? Or would she look shady as hell?

I was startled by Diane saying it took 13 years to build Lockhart-Gardner. That doesn't seem long enough, to be honest.

[KaveDweller]

Will would have been a more fitting pic for Diane to carry out of LG, but maybe there is some reason TPTB chose not to show JC's face.

They probably have to pay him royalties to show his face.

 

Bishop said that Cary's bail money would no longer be available if he had to testify, how exactly did he get the money back?

Did the court actually take the money? I thought they didn't and that's why they were still in court.

[jjj]

The court could not take the bail money from Bishop, because Bishop withdrew the funds.  The bail money came from the firm's resources, maybe rightly, maybe not, as litigated above. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by jjj

[UsernameFatigue]

They probably have to pay him royalties to show his face.

 

I surmised the same thing in an earlier post.

[pennben]

 

Alicia, an experienced attorney and the managing partner of F/A understands that the word "advance" means "unearned" fees.

 

Actually, "advance", very generally speaking, means payment before it is due: that can mean (i) before it is due because it hasn't been earned or (ii) before it is due because the agreed upon payment date hasn't occurred even though it has otherwise been earned. If she had said, "they've sent us their retainer for next month, let's use it on Cary"...no doubt she was blatantly unethical. 

 

The bail money came from the firm's resources, maybe rightly, maybe not, as litigated above.

 

Sorry about that!:)  I'm done now.

 

ETA:  I just noticed that the episode is entitled "Trust Issues".....DUN DUN DUUUN! Maybe they really are setting up another trust account violation arc for the show this season!  I don't believe that to be the case, I think it was sloppy writing, but who the hell knows....

Edited October 1, 2014 by pennben

[Jlina]

 

I don't think the Kings really care...

 

Totally agree!  It will become an issue if and when they need it to become an issue; otherwise it's just wording they got wrong as they've done in many instances.  I don't expect to see it mentioned again.

 

The Kalinda speculation has been fascinating, I probably would save Cary's witness but agree now that Bishop is too unpredictable.  Really, I find it absurd that only one of them got killed.  And further, that Bishop wouldn't know who they were calling as witnesses and get it right. 

 

I cannot imagine in any way, shape or form, Cary ever even chatting with these guys, much less playing a covert imaginary game of who'd you rather.  Show's really stretching even the basic conversation premise and if Kalinda hadn't said she'd heard it, I'd never believe it.

 

Yep, lots of big issues going on. 

 

Alicia is all the things mentioned above but also has lost her groundedness so it's making it even worse.  She used to be so grounded, it's almost schadenfreude to me; but the King's will save her so I can't really enjoy it.

 

I'm not sure the show will survive losing Will, and I am certain it can't replace him.  Three legged stool now only has two legs.

[izabella]

I'm wondering where they are going to put all those lawyers.  That office doesn't look big enough as it is.  Are they going to work out of Diane's house like they did out of Alicia's?

 

I hope they actually do something interesting with the Women and Minority Owned law firm concept.  I'd like to see that mean something other than as a plot point in this episode.

 

I'm so glad Cary is out of jail!   But the law firm he's coming back to, his firm, is not the same law firm he left a week ago.  I see some rough times ahead for Cary, and not just with the drug charges against him.

[Long Days Night]

And I'm tired of Taye Diggs being the token black professional.  There are other attractive black actors. 

 

Just off the top of my head - Michael Boatman comes to mind.  I miss Julius Cain - this storyline would be considerably more interesting to me if he were the guy crossing over to F/A with Diane and the others.

 

And how can a start up afford all of those extra bodies all at once?

 

Not only are we to believe that they can afford them, their arrival precipitated a little "hooray, now we're out of debt!" group happy dance at the F/A partners meeting. I'd like Clark Hayden to drop by and confirm that for me, because I am darkly suspicious that the rest of this crew can't do basic math.  Perhaps all those L/G department heads are used to crappy salaries from their time at the old firm where (other than being promoted and running departments) they were constantly demeaned, and they won't be expecting paychecks at all now that they're finally working for a firm that treats minorities and women with respect (except for that part about not being able to pay them, obs).

Edited October 1, 2014 by Long Days Night

[Princess Sparkle]

Just off the top of my head - Michael Boatman comes to mind.  I miss Julius Cain - this storyline would be considerably more interesting to me if he were the guy crossing over to F/A with Diane and the others.

 

 

 

When Taye Diggs was introduced in this episode, I was wondering what ever happened to Julius.  I don't remember him getting written out, and he was the Head of Litigation last time we saw him, so I have no idea why he hasn't entered into the equation at all.

[needschocolate]

Yeah, I don't understand just what it is about Taye Diggs.  I don't actively dislike him but I don't like him either.  I won't tune into anything or go see a movie just because his name is attached to it.  He doesn't draw me in.  

 

I think it is just that he has a memorable name :)  I have heard of Taye Diggs, but I could not pick him out of a line-up of 5 men.  If I had been asked who Taye Diggs was I probably would have guessed "male model."

 

Who's the random guy undressing in the elevator and using the sink? And does subjecting clients to that take the "quirky firm" vibe a bit too far?

 

I get letting the guy use the washroom to clean up, but letting him walk around shirtless in the building, come on writers that is just ludicrous for me to believe Alicia would allow that.  

 

Why does a law firm have a shower?

 

And if you are going to let some homeless guy use the shower, wouldn't you tell him to use it early in the morning, before clients come in? And wouldn't you tell him that he needs to keep all him clothes on until he is in the bathroom? 

 

Yeah, they took "quirky" too far.  They take a lot of things too far - Liike every time one of the kids appeared on youtube they were the most viewed thing ever, because people all over the world are so intrigued by the actions of the daughter of the Illinois States Attorney - or no one ever just walks out to quietly join/start a new firm, instead there has to be a large group of people parading toward the elevator - or the way Kalinda is always able to uncover critical evidence in a matter of minutes even though the police have been investigating for months...The problem with this show is that they take too many things too far. 

 

Yet, I still like this show.

[Kel Varnsen]

Why does a law firm have a shower?

 

And if you are going to let some homeless guy use the shower, wouldn't you tell him to use it early in the morning, before clients come in? And wouldn't you tell him that he needs to keep all him clothes on until he is in the bathroom? 

I think they were letting him use the janitor's sink to clean up in. That said I do agree the the quirky law firm thing has gone to far. I mean like others have said why would you do noisy construction in the middle of the day. 

Although I can see a law firm having a shower. If they are trying to portray the image that they are young and cool, you have a shower so that people can bike to work.

[Sandman]

My guess was all those people were fans of Dianne and what she represented to the firm so the news of her defection was enough to persuade them. Either that or people really really hate David Lee.

 

I wouldn't underestimate the power of that latter consideration.

[webruce]

Ernie Nolan(liked actor on The Mentalist, and Unforgettable), came to give Alicia money to cover Cary being released. But only if she ran for office? Did Peter put him up to it? It wasn't Eli. Nice that Alicia gave it back. But with this and her talk to Castro, she is leaning closer and closer. Even though she keeps trying to convince everyone plus herself she is not interested.

Cary helps fill in Alicia on the meeting with Deena Lampard, Neal Grosse's wife. He had Carey Zepps help Alicia on the case. Stuff like this points closer to the Cary/Carey name mix ups. Alicia and Lorraine Joy are not close I see.

Peter and Alicia argue over the 2nd morgage on her condo. She thinks Peter changed, he said it would come back to haunt him. Alicia saying," The man she married would sign!" "That's funny", Peter replied," Because the woman I married wouldn't ask!" They both have changed. Nice how Alicia paid for Carys bail.

Lemond Bishop pulled back the 1.3 million from Rojas. But not sure how Alicia could have stopped that. He didn't want to testify. Kalindas interview with the 3 guys in Bishop's crew got the wrong one(Jim Lenard) killed. Trey Wagner snitch, Dante Wallach not. Will Castro pull him back before Bishop can get him?

Diane finally leaves Lockart/Gardner. Nice she brings 6 associates. Maybe problems later at Florrick/Agos, but some of them should know eachother. She talked Dean Levine-Wilkins(Diggs) into following her to F/A. But he certainly wasn't impressed at first. Also when he and Diane talked in the elevator, he was the same height as her. Is he short? IMDB says he's 5-10, shes 5-81/2. Her heels made the difference.
Alicia talking to Gunther the bum and not contractor in the elevator was cute. "9/11 is a plot". Maybe he should be around for awhile. Then the hug with Cary upon leaving the elevator was nice. And it was their first hug, nice.

Edited October 3, 2014 by webruce

[marceline]

Why does a law firm have a shower?

 

I work at a law firm. We have showers. When you have people working around the clock and possibly heading off to court on a moment's notice, a shower is a time saver. Between the shower, the food service and the on site concierge, our lawyers could live in the office for weeks.

[Sandman]

I work at a law firm. We have showers. When you have people working around the clock and possibly heading off to court on a moment's notice, a shower is a time saver. Between the shower, the food service and the on site concierge, our lawyers could live in the office for weeks.

 

When a firm has amenities of this kind in its offices, there is often an unspoken (or mostly unspoken) expectation that junior associates and articled clerks/students will put in a LOT of hours. Why do they need to go home, when they could stay later and work more?

Edited October 2, 2014 by Sandman

[Guest]

I bet law firms with showers also have walls.  I guess whatever that loft was before and still mostly is could've had a shower.  The whole story was stupid, though.  We get it-- quirky, new firm.  Alicia with less stick up her ass.  Put down the anvils.  

[Sandman]

Shower stall before conference room wall does seem an odd priority, now that you mention it.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Sandman

[Kel Varnsen]

Shower stall before conference room wall does seem an odd priority, now that you mention it.

Recap says the guy was using the slop sink ti clean up, so no shower.

[Texasmom1970]

I want to know where they get the wardrobe for Diane. Christine Baranski always looks fabulous. I so want the copper color suit/jacket she was wearing when talking to Taye Diggs at Lockhart Gardner. And I do not even like to wear suits.