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S02.E06: The Price

AimingforYoko

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AimingforYoko

AimingforYoko

(edited)
Quote

Joel surprises Ellie for her birthday. As their rift continues to widen, Ellie prepares for a confrontation, while Joel makes a difficult choice out on patrol.

Joey Pants and Tony Dalton? This show sure can pull the actors.

I liked that they filled in the backstory of how Joel and Ellie were where they were at the beginning of the season. Ellie's birthdays were a good framing device. So Ellie had questions from jump, and Eugene just confirmed them. If that last scene between them is the last we'll see of Pedro Pascal, he sure went out on a high note.

Edited by AimingforYoko
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peridot

peridot

It was jarring to see how smiley Joel and Ellie were in the beginning.  The birthday cakes were adorable and I loved the museum scene.  It was very charming.

I was surprised that Joel said Ellie was experimenting.  Maybe his Texas background kicked in?  I guess that why he overcompensated with Seth - to make up for his initial poor behavior.

I was surprised at how far Joel went with Eugene.  I totally understood why that caused Ellie to snap.  It takes some nerve to make up that shit and hug his widow afterwards.

I was surprised that Ellie went back to talk with Joel after the party, but I'm glad she did.  I was choking up a bit in the last scene.

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kitkat343

kitkat343

(edited)

I was sorry to learn that Joel's character believed he was damning humanity by saving Ellie.  There were an options besides killing her to look into a cure.  What about taking some of her blood or stem cells and studying it or trying to transfuse it?  If she had a baby via artificial insemination with her consent, there would be umbilical cord cells that might be more effective in terms of discovering a cure.  I get the fact that in this society, people need to die (like Eugene).  But killing someone who might be more useful alive and might not even be helpful dead seems like a huge risk to take.   

Edited by kitkat343
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

(edited)

Abby and everyone else in the world that hates Joel and thinks he is a monster really don't know how more worse he could have been.  Because his dad was none other than freaking Lalo Salamanca! 

Okay, not really, but Tony Dalton as Joel's dad in the flashback was a great casting choice.  An abusive dad who tried to rationalize his behavior by claiming that at least he wasn't bad as his own dad.  Some really hollow excuses there but at least he did plant the idea about Joel "being better than him."  Looks like Joel accomplished that since he seemed to be a great father to Sarah and despite his many, many, many flaws, did his best to do right by Ellie.  Seeing Young Joel try to lie and protect Young Tommy also hinted at someone who would always do what he thinks is best to protect those he cares for: even at his own expense.

If this is actually the final time we see Joel/Pedro Pascal here, at least he goes out on a high note.  It was great seeing the Joel/Ellie pairing again and seeing them during happier times, until slowly but surely, it all came crashing down.  But, of course, the show just had to twist the knife a little by showing a spark of a potential reconciliation that will no longer be possible thanks to Abby's actions.  In some ways, that has to hurt Ellie even more than if she and Joel had just been on bad terms until his death.

I still think Joel's actions against Marlene and the Fireflies aren't that clear cut, because I really do feel like there was so many unanswered questions and possibilities with their science and approach, that I don't think it would have worked despite their claims.  But in the end, I guess it really doesn't matter because Joel all but admitted that he was going to save her no matter what.  And I guess I can understand the debates over morality and the greater good, but it's hard for me to fault him for what he did.

That said, I do understand Ellie's reactions a little more now, because seeing the way he can lie and cover things up is tough to watch.  Even if his intentions are good (in his own mind.)  The stuff with how he dealt with Eugene (Joey Pants!) and his execution were definitely more questionable.  Even if he really did think there wasn't enough time to get him back to Gail to say goodbye, creating a sob story about how heroic he was and making Gail even start crying in his arms was manipulative as hell.  He didn't have to tell her the full story, but he could have at least said that he was the one that put the bullet in his head and not some kind of major self-sacrifice.  Again, I get that he was probably thinking that Gail would "feel better" if she thought Eugene went out as some kind of heroic martyr, but the way he did it just felt icky.

Also, I do think we got glimpses that Joel wasn't completely comfortable with Ellie being a lesbian.  Using the word "experimenting" stood out for sure.  He might not have been a raging bigot like Seth, but it's kind of interesting that they showed that Joel had his own dated views, which I guess wouldn't be completely surprised for a man his age and where/how he was raised.

The porch scene was everything.  Overall, Pedro and, yes, Bella Ramsey crushed this episode.

Probably the best episode of the season, but seeing that the finale is next week does give off a vibe that this season feels more rushed compared to the first season.  Feels like we've only just kicked things off and it's already about to end.

Edited by thuganomics85
Lalo, not Hector!
  • Like 14
Glade

Glade

This was incredibly moving, masterful, and really filled in the holes of those missing years.  Joel said he believed they could have made a cure, but it's really just speculative at this point, unless we get a firefly flashback showing they had done ten years of experiments with her DNA (smuggled out by the fireflies) before she showed up there or something.  Cacao and coffee beans are difficult to process, I'm sure that most of the 'cash crop' plantations were swallowed by the jungle or ripped out, if people are able to.   

  • Like 7
T Summer

T Summer

I've always thought that  if the doctor wanted to  just take some of Ellie's blood  and  tissue to work   with,  he would not then just turn her back over to Joel so they could  return  to Tommy and Maria's  compound (and Shimmer).

 

It would probably have meant a nightmarish existence  for her imprisoned in the Salt Lake facility with the doctor  continually using her for  source material for his experiments until...

🫣

54 minutes ago, kitkat343 said:

There were an options besides killing her to look into a cure. What about taking some of her blood and studying it or trying to transfuse it?  

I wonder why Marlene  didn't attempt to get the doctor to take that approach, being she was there when Ellie was born? How could the doctor assert that the only way was taking her brain, or enough of it to be fatal?

  • Like 5
MJ Frog

MJ Frog

Joey Pants seems to run into trouble with guys named Joel.

"Time of your life, huh kid?"

This episode killed me, with all the happy crying, the sad crying, and some weird in-between crying. Good thing I had a box of Kleenex close by. Those two and their relationship, and what Ellie means to Joel especially, were the heart of the show for me, and continue to be. I know, it's going to go off in some very different directions, but their bond, as difficult as it often was, will always be what moves me the most.

 

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baldryanr

baldryanr

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I still think Joel's actions against Marlene and the Fireflies aren't that clear cut, because I really do feel like there was so many unanswered questions and possibilities with their science and approach, that I don't think it would have worked despite their claims.  But in the end, I guess it really doesn't matter because Joel all but admitted that he was going to save her no matter what.  And I guess I can understand the debates over morality and the greater good, but it's hard for me to fault him for what he did.

For the audience it's very clear cut (Abby's dad was a quack and they were going to murder Ellie for stupid reasons) but that's irrelevant for the characters in the story.  Joel clearly believed it was a binary choice - either Ellie lives or a cure is made.  When it's framed like that, you can still understand his decision but it's unbelievably selfish.  There are a lot of parents who will watch their kids die horribly (and vice versa) because Joel decided Ellie's life was more important than theirs.

Of course, the greater lesson is everyone should study some science.  You never know when you'll have to justify your choice to kill a bunch of people spouting nonsense about a cure in a zombie apocalypse. 

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marceline

marceline

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This episode showed one of the reasons I don't like Ellie as much as so many others. What she did to Gail was cruel and unnecessary. Ellie gave no thought at all to what that woman was going through and increased her pain just because she was pissed at Joel. No concern or care for Gail at all.

I also don't think Eugene had an hour. Something about his expression at the end made me think the fungus was already turning him.

I agree with everyone else about the quality of the acting. Pedro and Bella knocked it out of the park.

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Boofish

Boofish

16 minutes ago, marceline said:

This episode showed one of the reasons I don't like Ellie as much as so many others. What she did to Gail was cruel and unnecessary. Ellie gave no thought at all to what that woman was going through and increased her pain just because she was pissed at Joel. No concern or care for Gail at all.

I also don't think Eugene had an hour. Something about his expression at the end made me think the fungus was already turning him.

I agree with everyone else about the quality of the acting. Pedro and Bella knocked it out of the park.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who yelled "GIRL STFU" at my television. She's old enough to go on patrol to be his partner but not mature enough to do what's necessary. 

Him making the comment about experimenting was a realistic reaction to walking in on her having sex (probably what he feels like is the first time) with a girl because she never mentioned (that we are aware of) that she was gay. 

Those Chuck Taylors are what deserves the Emmy. At this point in the story, they don't even have a hole in them. I would like to conduct a nuclear experiment with those shoes and Rick's Sheriff hat from the Walking Dead. I need to see the last prop standing.

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Colorado David

Colorado David

(edited)
11 minutes ago, mcree said:

Anything other than “yes” would seem like an opportunistic lie at that critical moment. “Maybe” would be more accurate; but it would be less true.

I think he should have said "I dont know", which is the truth. And we dont know worldwide if there arent other doctors who could do the procedure, and possibly even more immunes. the world's a big place. and on top of that, why was ellie so eager to sacrifice herself? that's not a healthy state of mind even if it presents a cure which isnt a for sure thing. 

Edited by Colorado David
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aghst

aghst

1 hour ago, marceline said:

This episode showed one of the reasons I don't like Ellie as much as so many others. What she did to Gail was cruel and unnecessary. Ellie gave no thought at all to what that woman was going through and increased her pain just because she was pissed at Joel. No concern or care for Gail at all.

I also don't think Eugene had an hour. Something about his expression at the end made me think the fungus was already turning him.

I agree with everyone else about the quality of the acting. Pedro and Bella knocked it out of the park.

I guess Ellie was mainly thinking about seeing the same facial expression on Joel when he lied to her about Salt Lake City.

And maybe some excuse for her being only 19.

But yeah, Joel wanted to comfort Gail, because either way, she lost her husband.

Ellie couldn't wait to confront Joel, just had to do it in front of the widow, who's looking at his corpse for the first time.

 

1 hour ago, KeithJ said:

The part I didn't understand was when Ellie asked Joel if the Fireflies had a cure if they cut her open.  He response was "Yes". It wasn't "maybe", "possibly", or "doubtful" it was just a straight up yes. There was no guarantee that cutting Ellie open was going to produce a cure. It was most likely a long shot anyway.

Maybe they wanted to emphasize that Joel saved her because he loved her.  He was always going to protect people, first Tommy.  He couldn't save his own daughter so he was going to save Ellie no matter what.

One of the show creators said he had a savior complex.

But in the post-apocalyptic world, he had nobody else as close, not even Tommy or his sister in law and nephew, given what he had gone through with Ellie.

They showed it beautifully in this episode.  I'm not as sure that they showed how close they'd gotten in season 1 leading up to the point where he goes in to save her.  At the start of their road trip, he was annoyed by her.  

  • Like 6
Luckylyn

Luckylyn

I think Ellie suffers from “Survivor’s Guilt”.  So many people have died around her but she persists.  She wants to save people even if it means losing her life.

I think Joel’s actions with the Fireflies were definitely going to make her angry with him but I think it hurt her even more that he deceived her.  It’s the lie that I think did the most damage to their relationship.  The same with Eugene in that Joel promised her to let Eugene see his wife and then killed him anyway.  Lying to her damages the trust she has in him. 

I still think the show did a poor job selling the idea that killing Ellie was definitely going to lead to a cure to the audience but the narrative makes it clear the characters within the show believe it to be true.  

  • Like 11
iMonrey

iMonrey

Oh, yeah. That's why I liked the first season. Too bad it's . . . this now.

When Joel and Ellie were making their way back through the woods after the museum, Ellie stopped and was distracted by something to her left. Joel asked her if she was OK, she snapped back and they resumed their walk. Then the camera panned over to . . . what? I couldn't tell what she was looking at.

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Luckylyn

Luckylyn

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Oh, yeah. That's why I liked the first season. Too bad it's . . . this now.

When Joel and Ellie were making their way back through the woods after the museum, Ellie stopped and was distracted by something to her left. Joel asked her if she was OK, she snapped back and they resumed their walk. Then the camera panned over to . . . what? I couldn't tell what she was looking at.

Ellie noticed some fireflies in the woods which I think acts a reminder of her suspicions that Joel didn’t tell her the truth.

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Starchild

Starchild

re: Eugene, here's my head canon.

I'm basing this on the impression I had of Eugene's hand as they were making their way through the woods. Eugene had his back to the camera most of the time (probably a deliberate choice by the director), but in some angles I'm sure I saw his left hand shaking. They never give us a clear look, but if the audience could see it, probably so could Joel.

I think when they got to that crossroad, left took them back to town. But by then Joel had seen Eugene's hand shaking, and told him to go right.

5 hours ago, marceline said:

I also don't think Eugene had an hour. Something about his expression at the end made me think the fungus was already turning him.

I agree with this. I think he did see Gail in his mind's eye at the end, and then everything slipped away. He wouldn't have made it back, and Joel suspected that. By the time they got to the crossroad, he knew.

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Capricasix

Capricasix

8 hours ago, marceline said:

This episode showed one of the reasons I don't like Ellie as much as so many others. What she did to Gail was cruel and unnecessary. Ellie gave no thought at all to what that woman was going through and increased her pain just because she was pissed at Joel. No concern or care for Gail at all.

We have to keep in mind that she’s only 19, and a lot of 19-year-olds wouldn’t have the emotional maturity to think about other people’s pain when they themselves are in pain, after being betrayed and lied to for years.

  • Like 8
General Days

General Days

This episode was powerful, but I keep wondering if Ellie would be easier to empathize with, if the story of her search for truth and alienation from Joel, had been told in a somewhat more linear fashion. Instead, we opened this season with Ellie hating the man we watched save her life, and it was hard to take, even if you knew/expected that she'd soften toward him somewhere along the way. 

I like shows where the story jumps around the timeline (Lost, HIMYM, Once Upon a Time), but I'm not sure we jumped on the right beats this season. I think it's a little harder to empathize with Ellie because of how this all rolled out. That would be fine if Joel was still on the canvas, but we all watched him die.

I never played the game (and also don't care about the game, in that when you adapt one work for another medium, making it work in that new medium needs to be a goal — faithfulness to the source can't be the only driver). Since Joel is gone and Ellie's the lead now, the audience needs to be able to connect with her.

I don't mean she needs to be perfect. For example, I totally get why Joel saved Ellie's life and (possibly) doomed humanity, and I know he did bad things before Ellie came into his life, but I still found him sympathetic, because I watched him lose Sarah. I watched him lose Tess. I know about his hearing loss. I know about his knee. I know Joel is a broken person who does the wrong things sometimes, and I'm here for it, because I "suffered" with him.

 

7 hours ago, marceline said:

This episode showed one of the reasons I don't like Ellie as much as so many others. What she did to Gail was cruel and unnecessary. Ellie gave no thought at all to what that woman was going through and increased her pain just because she was pissed at Joel. No concern or care for Gail at all.

I also don't think Eugene had an hour. Something about his expression at the end made me think the fungus was already turning him.

I agree with everyone else about the quality of the acting. Pedro and Bella knocked it out of the park.

 

I think part of the problem is that Ellie is still maturing. She's still developing not only her higher reasoning, but also her impulse control. And empathy-wise, when Ellie looks at Gail, she sees Gail through her own lens.

Ellie was, at that time, on a quest for truth about her own life, so when she tried to empathize with Gail, the results were less "How must Gail feel," and more "Gail must feel like I do. Truth is important to me, so truth is important. Gail will want the truth."

I truly don't think Ellie was capable of understanding why Joel saved her and doomed the world. I also, though, don't think she was capable of understanding why Joel lied to Gail.

Joel didn't do that to cover his own ass. Joel did that to spare Gail (which is also why he lied to Ellie about the Fireflies). Because Ellie was on a truth quest, she wasn't able to consider which might serve Gail's peace of mind better in the long run. 

 

4 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Ellie noticed some fireflies in the woods which I think acts a reminder of her suspicions that Joel didn’t tell her the truth.

 

Ah, thank you! When we saw that scene, my husband said, "Are those spores?" I couldn't figure out what else they could be. Fireflies makes much more sense. (I think I've only mostly seen fireflies at dusk, or in the nighttime.)

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Dev F

Dev F

2 hours ago, paigow said:

He did not have any hate [or suppressed it well] for Bill & Frank... His ethos was likely - Gay people can do what they want, but not my daughter...

Yep. In his world, civilization collapsed before gay marriage was legalized anywhere in the United States. Lots of people who would've gone on to be fully supportive of gay rights in our world probably ended up frozen in an earlier mindset that assumed pursuing a "gay lifestyle" meant inevitably cutting oneself off from mainstream social institutions like marriage and parenthood.

It actually impressed me that the show didn't whitewash that sad likelihood in the interest of making Joel more palatable to modern audiences—that they had him tell Ellie he didn't know if she'd ever understand his love for her, seemingly a nod to the assumption (quickly proven incorrect, as it turns out) that being into girls would mean she'd never have children of her own.

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diebartdie

diebartdie

On 5/19/2025 at 7:45 AM, Boofish said:

Him making the comment about experimenting was a realistic reaction to walking in on her having sex (probably what he feels like is the first time) with a girl because she never mentioned (that we are aware of) that she was gay.

They were not having sex. They were sitting together, fully clothed  on Ellie's bed with Ellie's friend gave her a tattoo. The two girls were giggling. There was no sex in this episode.

millennium

millennium

Only great episode of the season.

The Firefly doctors were going on a fishing expedition into Ellie's brain.   Their willingness to sacrifice the only known immune person suggests desperation.  Nothing they said convinced me they were confident that the "cure" would work.   It all seemed theoretical.

I'm glad Joel didn't lie a second time.  But it's an abuse of dramatic happenstance that he finally confesses his past sins to Ellie, then just 12 hours later Abby finds him and beats him to death after 5 years of searching

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DigitalCount

DigitalCount

While I think it's absolutely debatable if the Fireflies were all there, in universe, Joel believed he was dooming the world in order to save Ellie. I'm not sure the ins and outs of this or that scientific basis are as important, because Joel made the decision under the belief that it would have worked. He could have been defended on the grounds that it was a pipe dream, but it's important to note that even if he was 100% certain that it would have worked, he'd have done the same thing. They could have said "hey, here's our buddy Sam, we actually already cured him but the stuff we used got destroyed in [random turn of events] so we need to harvest more from Ellie in a way that will kill her but save millions" and he'd still have done it.

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Racj82

Racj82

On 5/19/2025 at 6:59 PM, Capricasix said:

We have to keep in mind that she’s only 19, and a lot of 19-year-olds wouldn’t have the emotional maturity to think about other people’s pain when they themselves are in pain, after being betrayed and lied to for years.

We don't really need to keep that in mind. It doesn't make her actions any less cruel or annoying.

That moment was all about her and not Gail.

Personally I've long since been tired of giving shitty teenagers a pass or grace because they are teenagers. Not every teenager reacts to things the same way. Adults don't either. I can also understand and sympathize peoples action while also them cruel and annoying.

It does not matter if they could of made cure. Joel believed they could and made his choice anyway. So, no know he isn't going to say maybe. Maybe also complicates the point of that scene.

mcree

mcree

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Nothing they said convinced me they were confident that the "cure" would work.   It all seemed theoretical.

What was said? "They" is only Marlene, relating second-hand what was planned. Ellie's Cordyceps has grown with her since birth, producing a chemical messenger that "makes normal Cordyceps think that she's Cordyceps" which makes her immune. The doctor is going to remove it, multiply those cells to produce those chemical messengers, and give it to everyone. "He thinks it could be a cure"

That's a simple made-for-TV layman's explanation. For one thing, they're not "fishing", just poking around to see what they can see. That's a direct, if fatal, action plan.

Marlene had several options to prevent a second season of the show; should she have elaborated with concrete details why the doctor was confident it would work (if there were any)? Turns out Joel didn't need anything more to believe in at least the broad likelihood of a cure.

Saw a comment -- don't think it was here -- that we are never shown that the Fireflies had the necessary equipment to mass-produce a cure, putting it in doubt. Between Joel waking up after being stun-bombed and walking down the stairs, when he starts taking guys out, the audience sees even less than Joel does. What would one expect to see?

 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

I have overall enjoyed this season, but this episode reminded me of how much I miss Pedro and Joel. Its been good but it just doesn't have that spark that season one had, the chemistry between them was so fundamental to the shows success. His relationship with Ellie is so sweet and complicated, the birthdays did a good job at showing their relationship at different times, her sweet first birthday, Ellie becoming more of a teenager, and the disaster that caused their relationship to become so strained. Then the ending, Pedro and Bella were so excellent, I hope that this is their Emmy submission episode. 

Joel making that guitar for Ellie and singing for her felt so much like Ellie playing that guitar she found in Seattle for Dina.

That first birthday was so cute, I loved that shot of Ellie and Joel looking at that planet display with the sun shining and the moss everywhere. Even then though, I think that Ellie suspected that that Joel wasn't telling her the truth, she looked at those fireflies for quite a while. 

Ellie probably shouldn't have told Gail the truth about how her husband died, I don't think it helped anything, but it wasn't really about that, it was about how Joel tends to lie for what he thinks is for the greater good, and she's increasingly sure that Joel is lying to her. Ellie is certainly upset about what Joel did, but also that he has been lying to her face for years. 

I was worried that Joel and Ellie's relationship had been bad for most of their time together after the first season, but I am glad that they had several good years as father and daughter. They weren't all perfect, but you can tell how much they loved each other. They even had some hope of fixing their relationship when Joel admitted that he was the one who killed the Fireflies, but tragically they never had that chance. I think that the Fireflies were way too fast to kill and cut up Ellie, but the real point isn't whether or not they needed or didn't need to kill Ellie, it was that Joel loves her and would never let her die, regardless of what he had to do or what that meant to the world. 

I was pleasantly surprised to see Tony Dalton and Joey Pants here, this show gets such great guest stars.

Edited by tennisgurl
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slowpoked

slowpoked

On 5/19/2025 at 11:52 AM, aghst said:

Ellie couldn't wait to confront Joel, just had to do it in front of the widow, who's looking at his corpse for the first time.

I think what made Ellie snapped was when Joel said “He did it on his own.” Joel himself said he’s only going to tell Gail what she needs to know. He didn’t need to embellish so much. Ellie herself didn’t see when Joel killed him. Why not keep it short and say, he got bitten, he wanted to see Gail one last time, but as they were waiting to get back, he got badly infected, and he can no longer abide by his last wish? From Ellie’s POV, I can see why she snapped. 

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T Summer

T Summer

I've stated this before...

as far as    some of us not feeling   s2 Ellie  as much as   s1 Ellie,  I think the blame should go to the writer(s) / director.  I saw more maturity and sensitivity in  her in s1. They are portraying her as carelessly indulging her  every whim with no thought of  consequences. Like wandering off on patrols, not heeding the direction of those who are far more experienced or have been put in the role of leader etc.

Joel told Ellie on the way back that he was going to tell Gayle x,y+z and not give a literal factual accounting of what Eugene said including begging to be spared a little while longer so he could say goodbye. Ellie didn't say then that she had a problem with that. She was  so intent on giving up Joel and  his lie to Gayle in   dramatic fashion that  she let it blind her to the very real possibility  she would be even more devastated hearing that than she already was by hearing of his death.

...and the writing! Why on earth would Ellie have specific knowledge (moreso  than Joel) of how long Eugene had? He's got time, she said. Didn't she specifically cite the interval of one hour?

🙄

 

 

The look on  Ellie's face when Joel told her  how he broke her out of the hospital  in  the s1 finale was one of being conflicted and not knowing whether to believe him completely. That's how they filmed it, and they deliberately used that scene to promote the show in general and to herald it's  s2 return.

#1. What's with this being treated as a brand new concern of Ellie's now? Really, she's never seen that look on Joel's face? In all their time together?

... or is this supposed to   still  be plaguing her 5 years later? Without ever bringing it up... because  that would be  so in-keeping with the way the character conducts herself 🙄 (sarcasm)

 

#2. Has anyone ever posed the question to Ellie ( has she asked herself)  if Joel  was  immune and somehow could not give consent, would she  allow him to be be killed by having his brain removed for a completely experimental,  never done before  attempt at making a cure from his tissues... if she had the power to stop it?

By one of the Fireflies' doctors with only a hypothesis and no thought of trying to preserve Joel's     life 

😠

                                                                                                                  

 

    I'm guessing she wouldn't sacrifice him under those conditions, either.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

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DigitalCount

DigitalCount

I think Eugene himself estimated that he had an hour left before he would succumb to the infection. Also, I think Ellie would not have had a problem with Joel only sticking to the basic facts, or even the initial minor embellishments, but he insisted on drawing up a grand hagiography and that changed things for her. There was no reason for him to claim that Eugene did it himself.

mcree

mcree

The birthday theme of this episode has established whether Ellie and Dina are technically having a "teen romance".

The first game/season starts with Ellie at 14. Two months after they settle in Jackson, it's Ellie's 15th birthday. Four years later on her 19th birthday, she goes out with Joel on her first patrol. Nine months later, it is New Year's. She is in the hospital for three months.

So they leave for Seattle right around when she turns 20 alone, after five birthdays with Joel. (That last one was rough.) Ellie is definitely twenty by the time they arrive.

 

2 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Eugene himself estimated that he had an hour left before he would succumb to the infection.

Right, and the count-to-ten and hold-out-your-hand were things Ellie did in the very first episode, when Marlene's gang was holding her, and verifying that she was not turning. In the game, Tess reveals that she had been bitten "an hour ago" while not exhibiting any real symptoms other than an aggravated bite. She doesn't say that in the show, but her hand noticeably trembles, and Ellie can deduce where they were and therefore estimate when the bite occurred. She might be inclined to give Eugene the benefit of the doubt in agreeing they could make it back in time; Joel probably never had, and never would.

 

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baldryanr

baldryanr

Yeah, after a couple of decades people are going to have a pretty reasonable feel for how long it takes to turn.  Ellie was with Riley from bite to turn, and they showed a poster with approximate timelines (i.e. it takes longer the further the bite is from the brain) in a previous episode.  image.png.e8e0a515a6b57cc8cdcf08355b15f1f6.png

Joel has a lot of that knowledge too, but he's also an old hardass.  Plus the community already had a rule about not bringing people back for tearful goodbyes, so it's not just Joel being an insensitive dick.  Ellie probably didn't get a say when that rule was made, so it makes more sense for her to be OK with exceptions.

  • Like 1
T Summer

T Summer

My point was that Ellie could have said she objected to Joel's revised version, which he planned to deliver to spare Gayle's feelings...  on the ride back.

Giving up Joel's lie in such dramatic fashion was giving in to her own impetuous desires like all the not listening on patrols, going off on her own etc.It certainly wasn't with thought to being kinder to Gayle.

I just feel this headstrong not very thoughtful Ellie of s2 is less likeable than s1 Ellie. However as she came across more sensitive and thoughtful in s1, I blame the writers/director rather than the actress.

  • Like 5

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