S48.E07: Survivor Smack Talk

[Rodney]

It’s double trouble when an unforeseen twist puts pressure on the castaways during the Immunity Challenge.  Then, there’s nowhere to hide when a pivotal Tribal Council takes shape and decides who will and won't make the jury.

This is the episode's discussion thread for after the episode airs.

[Rodney]

Two votes in which something interesting could've happened, but ultimately didn't.

Not that I'll miss Sai.  It was beyond her time to go.

But Kyle and Kamilla totally wussed out of a big move.  Cedrek was no threat, while Shauhin was a huge one.  Were they worried about losing trust with Joe and Eva or something?

Disappointing episode that nothing big happened in either Tribal Council.

[Carey]

So much for my recent comment on not getting nice things

[LadyChatts]

I'm in the minority who will miss Sai just because she wasn't dull, but I also didn't want to see her stick around simply to get dragged to the end as a goat (which is probably what would have happened).  But Mitch is sweet and I think a better gamer than he's being given credit for, and between him and Sai, I would have rather seen him stick around (I'm sorry he wasted his block-a-vote, but I can't blame him for using it, either). 

I don't know why voting off Eva-when she's clearly in a strong duo with Joe-wasn't an option.  Chrissy might have put her foot in her mouth at TC, and I was expecting whispering to happen, and a last-minute plan to vote her out because she seemed to openly target Joe.  I don't disagree with her take on honesty and integrity not winning you the game.  Joe seemed to take offense to that, but I can't remember a winner who didn't lie to someone in the game.  I don't care if it's only to your non-alliance members; it still counts as lying if you aren't honest with everyone.

Cedrek seemed really bothered by his name being written down at the previous TC, so I'm glad Sai accomplished that.  But dang, what was he thinking applying for this show?  I said in the live chat thread that I would have voted him out solely to make sure I didn't get stuck with him on a team-reward challenge.  But I think keeping him was a smarter move for now, as he doesn't really have any allies as it is and clearly isn't a threat in challenges.

Rooting for Kyle or Kamilla to take it all.  Shauhin seems pretty overconfident, thinking people need to come to him to play the game and know what's going on.  But I'm hoping David "we need a strong player to finally win" goes next.  

Edited April 10 by LadyChatts

[MarylandGirl]

18 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm in the minority who will miss Sai just because she wasn't dull, but I also didn't want to see her stick around simply to get dragged to the end as a goat (which is probably what would have happened).  But Mitch is sweet and I think a better gamer than he's being given credit for, and between him and Sai, I would have rather seen him stick around (I'm sorry he wasted his block-a-vote, but I can't blame him for using it, either). 

I don't know why voting off Eva-when she's clearly in a strong duo with Joe-wasn't an option.  Chrissy might have put her foot in her mouth at TC, and I was expecting whispering to happen, and a last-minute plan to vote her out because she seemed to openly target Joe.  I don't disagree with her take on honesty and integrity not winning you the game.  Joe seemed to take offense to that, but I can't remember a winner who didn't lie to someone in the game.  I don't care if it's only to your non-alliance members; it still counts as lying if you aren't honest with everyone.

Cedrek seemed really bothered by his name being written down at the previous TC, so I'm glad Sai accomplished that.  But dang, what was he thinking applying for this show?  I said in the live chat thread that I would have voted him out solely to make sure I didn't get stuck with him on a team-reward challenge.  But I think keeping him was a smarter move for now, as he doesn't really have any allies as it is and clearly isn't a threat in challenges.

Rooting for Kyle or Kamilla to take it all.  Shauhin seems pretty overconfident, thinking people need to come to him to play the game and know what's going on.  But I'm hoping David "we need a strong player to finally win" goes next.  

I'll also miss Sai due to her luck of dullness. But I also see why people wouldn't have wanted her on the jury. I wonder if she still would have been voted out if her team had won the challenge?

I'm guessing that voting for Eva (or even suggesting it) would have put a target on that person's back. But at some point, they'll have to take a chance to start cutting into that alliance.

Speaking of, I also hope David goes next!

[choclatechip45]

Sai was entertaining, but I'm glad Mary outlasted her original tribe. 

[bunnyface]

My thought process was:  Win Joe!  Oh, I'm sorry but please lose Joe.  So Sai can go home and NOT make the jury and that would be hysterical and make my day.  I'm sorry Joe.

[North of Eden]

And just like that Sai become undatable.... Requiem for the season's biggest villain.

Too bad for her she toasted her idol way back when.

Anyone remember that time SURVIVOR tried to gin up suspense at who's going home in their big double eviction episode AFTER they had a castaway tell you point blank Ced, Mitch and Sai were all in trouble and targets?

My vote for the worst episode of the season.... between opening it with Mitch-fest followed up by an unending challenge as Jeff gets the big O from having two alpha male beefcakes in a showdown it just dragged. I was desperately bored and my mind was wandering.

Man, somehow Chrissy applies, makes it through all the rounds of casting, actually gets out to the island and even makes the merge and then has a whopping two confessionals near the very end of a 90-minute episode. Casting win of the season right there!

So Mary is the last of her tribe right? I worry about her. Does she even have any allies let alone a ride or die? I've yet to hear her name being mentioned in the groups that pledge they will make it to the final together.

Sadly sooner or later all of Kyle and Kamilla's plotting is going to blow up in their faces.

[LadyChatts]

32 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

So Mary is the last of her tribe right? I worry about her. Does she even have any allies let alone a ride or die? I've yet to hear her name being mentioned in the groups that pledge they will make it to the final together.

Sadly sooner or later all of Kyle and Kamilla's plotting is going to blow up in their faces.

I think Mary believes she's in with David but she's going to get a big surprise if she's not careful.  It's funny that she was once a dead woman walking and now has outlasted her entire, hopeless tribe.  The best thing that could happen to her is blend into the background and hope people forget about her.  Maybe she won't be seen as a threat.

I feel like there's a lot of emphasis being put on Kyle and Kamilla having a secret duo so something tells me it probably isn't going to stay secret much longer.  I am wondering if they made the right decision keeping Shauhin or if they are going to overplay their hand. 

[Rodney]

1 minute ago, LadyChatts said:

I am wondering if they made the right decision keeping Shauhin or if they are going to overplay their hand. 

I'm wondering what made them totally wimp out of the move.  Shauhin was right there, and they had the numbers.

[Grizzly]

That was an entertaining challenge. For my shallow self, we got the gun show. I was impressed that David and Joe could hold on with one hand. Shauhin was comic relief, saying that's why he doesn't take his shirt off and mimicking the Survivor sound effects. And Kyle showed he's a fan by saying where a casting promo would go. I'm kind of sorry Sai didn't make the jury. Watching her squirm without being able to say anything. She'd probably give the million to Mary. 

[Nashville]

34 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Shauhin was comic relief, saying that's why he doesn't take his shirt off and mimicking the Survivor sound effects.

I purely loved when Shauhin did his throat singing shtick, because I’ve done the exact same thing on a fairly regular basis for years. 😆

[TVFan1]

I thought Mitch and Shauhin were actually going to go. Not sad at all to see Sai go and not make the jury. Voting Shauhin off instead of Cedrek was the better play, but the alliance stuck together and got rid of Cedrek. Tonight reminded me of old school Survivor, when Sai and Cedrek were voted off. Back then, the tribe with the least amount of players would be picked off one by one. Mary is the last one standing from her original tribe and I hope she manages to stay in the game and keep going.

[rr2911]

Yaaaaahoooooo! Sai is gone at last!  Sai in her exit interview thinks her elimination was because others viewed her as a threat.  No, I just don't think they liked her!

I wonder if David changed Kyle's and Kamilia's mind.  Maybe we'll find out that David point blank asked Shauhin if he had an idol.  

At this point, I'm rooting for Mary or Mitch to win it all!

Edited April 10 by rr2911

[Lantern7]

Meh episode. It's a double elimination episode because #NewSurvivor. We also lose our most irritating person in Sai. I don't think she was an outright villain. She's someone who annoyed, got saved on what could have been a coin flip, and wound up not getting on the jury, where she probably would have been entertaining.

We also lose Cedrek, who . . . worst player ever? That would mean doing research, and I'm too lazy for that. It just seems fitting that he goes out following a challenge where he lasted twenty seconds. Or was it fifteen? Probst will probably whittle that down to ten when he talks about this episode. Poor Cedrek.

I was reminded of Shauhin's existence. While I figure a lot of contestants lean on the fourth wall, it's rare for the editors to show that happen AND get in on the fun. That was the highlight of the episode.

[dancingdreamer]

Ding dong Sai is gone. She didn't  even  make jury. 

Cedrek  voted out, unfortunately  he did make jury.

Congratulations  to Joe and David breaking  a survivor  record. 

 

[30 Helens]

RIP Mai. (Yeah, I gave them a portmanteau. Whatchoo gonna do about it.) In my fanfic, they would have been chasing each other around the jury house, at least. Farewell, Sai. You were a hot mess, but I enjoyed you.

I was ready for Chrissy to leave, but then she dared to go where no Survivor player has gone before, by pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes and by the way, honesty and integrity are bullshit concepts in this game. And now I kind of love Chrissy. 

I was also ready for Shauhin to go, with his cocky certainty that all strategic activity revolves around him, but then he had to go and get all endearing with the comp-side singalong. (We do that at my house, too, but only with the theme song: Odie odie odie ah hah, odie odie oh… etc.) He can stay as long as he continues to amuse me. Besides, cocky David is much more annoying.

Now Cedric can go overanalyze every jury move, and make sure the other jurors meet his standards of behavior. That should be fun for them.

[PhoneCop]

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

We also lose Cedrek, who . . . worst player ever?

I'm not gonna do the research either, but off the top of my head, I think Chet may edge him out. (Cedrek can't even win the Worst Player Ever award!)

31 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

RIP Mai. (Yeah, I gave them a portmanteau. Whatchoo gonna do about it.) In my fanfic, they would have been chasing each other around the jury house, at least. Farewell, Sai. You were a hot mess, but I enjoyed you.

Me too, kind of. Mary and Sai's Road Runner/Coyote dynamic was the only fun part of watching Vula's slow implosion.

Oh, and add me to the Anyone But David contingent. At least the clown edit he's getting points away from him winning. Hopefully. 

[JudyObscure]

Well now we know why certain men are willing to devote a large part of their lives to pumping iron in dank, fetid gyms  -- it's so if they get on Survivor they'll win the bucket holding challenge.  At least they seem to like the way they look.  To me David looks like something a kid made out of blocks.

I'll miss Sai's weird attitude toward others, an interesting mix of respect and hatred.  She would have been a wild card on the jury.

[Taeolas]

I do wonder a bit how exactly a "Block a vote" gets played. 

 

Obviously you aren't playing it publicly when they ask if anyone has Idols or Advantages. it has to be played before voting. 

You also don't play it during the vote since Sai was voting first (apparently; editing monkeys may be in play). 

I assume that they regularly film talking head segments with everyone just before Tribal Council, and that's when the Block a Vote/Steal a Vote would be played? Or do you have to find a producer/production person in the setup to Tribal Council and sneak it to them along with who you are blocking/stealing, hopefully without the rest of the players noticing? 

 

Glad Sai didn't get on the Jury; I think this was the perfect time to boot her. Cedrik going was a bit surprising; would have been a good time to take out some of the stronger players; but the numbers didn't seem to go that way. 

[violet and green]

After all that, it was kind of anti-climactic to have Sai go out like that. Followed by Cedrek - who to my mind pretty well singlehandedly destroyed his original tribe. He seems like a lovely man - peace and blessings was a nice signout - but totally unsuited for this game on any level. But the good news was Mary was not targeted and is now the last of the doomed-by-Cedrek tribe standing!

Pretty irritating that Sai, Mitch, and Chrissy couldn't shelve their differences and work together for one vote given that with Mitch's block a vote advantage they could have controlled that vote and got out someone with some power, like Eva! That would have been fun. Nobody would have seen it coming at all. Cue the outraged faces of the loyal integrous faction!

 

[Haleth]

I’m not a fan of David but that was pretty impressive how he never budged an inch during the challenge. I had to laugh at the shot of him checking his nails on one hand while holding the rope with the other. (But of course I was rooting for Joe to win.). Other than that it was a pretty dull, drawn out episode. Glad Mitch wasn’t voted out.

Edited April 10 by Haleth

[GenerationX]

Random thoughts on episode 7 - "You don't Sai":

• The consensus to vote out Sai was to not have to take into account her wildcard influence on the jury
• Cedrek will make a far better juror than player
• Kyle and Kamilla are one of the most intriguing, low-profile scheming duos we've had in a while

[seacliffsal]

I've been pretty neutral on David until this episode.  Maybe I even felt a bit sorry for him as he indicated he needed to win in order to keep his girlfriend.  But, that has all changed.  I couldn't stand his showboating throughout the episode.  Didn't he realize it would put an even bigger target on him?  He doesn't have a broad spectrum of skills that would allow him to go on an immunity run (strength, puzzle solving, etc.).  And, taunting Joe?  Not smart.  Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if his girlfriend just gave him the 'you need to make more money' line as a way to leave the relationship...

Glad to see both Sai and Cedrick leave.  Sai was not a strategic player no matter what she thinks.  Revenge votes?  Targeting Mitch?  A much better move would have been to continue to target Eva and her idol.  But, Sai was convinced she was the smartest player so she was determined to revenge vote (not seeing the contradiction between those two views...).

Joe went down a bit in my view as he has consistently been 'strength team' but then talked about how Mitch has too much 'strength' as he's a good competitor.  Huh?  So much for honesty.  Just be honest-I want a 'strength' alliance in which I think I can win (or Eva) but I don't think I can beat Mitch, so I don't want him in my 'strength' alliance...

[fishcakes]

I had to laugh at Sai telling Joe (or maybe it was Shauhin) that she knows he voted for her, but she doesn't take it personally. Her entire game was taking things personally! That's why she voted for Kevin and Cedrek and wanted to vote for Mitch. But I agree it was anticlimactic for her to go. She wasn't going to win (despite the oh-so-savvy "I would have won if I hadn't been voted out" analysis in her exit words), and if everyone knows she's chaotic then she has no influence and can be sidelined while they get actual threats out.

I was sorry to see Cedrek go only because he is also harmless but basically likeable and it would have been smarter to get out Shauhin who has become increasingly irritating. His challenge soundtrack was cute at first, but then it went on and on, and we only got the edited version.

Really the entire meathead alliance gets on my nerves now. Shauhin thinks he's a strategic genius, David thinks he's Mr. Universe, Joe believes he's an inspiration to all, and Eva is an unpleasant Queen Bee. I really, really want Kyle and Kamilla to destroy them.

Chrissy's speech was idiotic and Star nailed it. "I'm gonna lie to you, but not tonight!"

[rr2911]

I think the next target should be to break up Joe and Eva's alliance.  I would target Eva with her idol.  She's becoming a bit annoying anyway.

[KeithJ]

Sai "They're obsessed with me".  She said it at least twice.  No Sai, they're not obsessed with you, they don't like you.

[RedbirdNelly]

12 hours ago, Rodney said:

 

But Kyle and Kamilla totally wussed out of a big move.  Cedrek was no threat, while Shauhin was a huge one.  Were they worried about losing trust with Joe and Eva or something?

 

I think their idea was to only make that move if they could pull it off with it looking like something the group was behind as opposed to "Kyle and Kamilla just pulled off this big move, surprising their alliance." If they could do it subtly, they'd do it; if not, no move--the idea being to continue to fly under the radar as opposed to talking heads next week on "I hadn't realized how hard they were playing; now they are my top target." 

I was glad Cedrick went home because he was boring. At least there is more potential for Shauhin to be part of some drama or more interesting votes.

David definitely made himself less likeable this episode. 

[iMonrey]

11 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Jeff gets the big O from having two alpha male beefcakes in a showdown it just dragged.

I'm not ready to get the tinfoil hat out yet, but it did not escape my notice that in an episode with two tribal councils and two people getting voted out, the immunity basically came down to upper body and arm strength. And that almost all the women dropped first. Not saying they chose this challenge to protect the biggest and strongest guys, necessarily. But it was mighty lucky for them.

But hey, I'd be happy to see double eliminations every week, because two tribal councils meant shorter tribal councils, and less of Jeff's endless back-and-forth pretending he still has a talk show.

I don't think there was any real chance they were going to vote out Shauhin, but you could tell he definitely got wind of something by the time he got to tribal council. I imagine whatever Kyle and Kamilla tried to stir up got back to him and he was able to shut it down, but they didn't show us that.

Oh, and I pointed this out last week but it bears repeating. I knew Shauhin was safe as soon as Jeff pulled his name out of the urn first. Because the first name pulled out is never, ever, ever the person going home. Do better, show. Switch it up once in awhile instead of telling us right off who's safe.

[RedbirdNelly]

meant to add I was very disappointed to see the contestants broken up into random small voting groups. I don't care with doing it for purposes of a reward but I was hoping last week meant we'd go back to voting as the entire group old school style. Less luck; more play

[LadyChatts]

11 hours ago, Rodney said:

I'm wondering what made them totally wimp out of the move.  Shauhin was right there, and they had the numbers.

I’d love to know that too.  I’m worried that they went to David to plant this seed of Shauhin having an idol, because now I’m worried David will go back to Shauhin with this and the target will flip to Kamilla and lead to Kyle too.  But Kyle seemed to have very good reasons for wanting Shauhin out, and he is a much better competitor than Cedrek in every way.  Cedrek would be such an easy vote next time.  If there was an immunity challenge that involved just standing in place somehow he’d still be the first one out, so clearly he wouldn’t have gone on a challenge run.  Unless they couldn’t get Mary onboard, but somehow I think she could have been convinced.

[blackwing]

I wanted Mitch and Shauhin to go home.  I'm indifferent on Sai.  She was a little annoying but there was no way she was going to win the game since she had rubbed too many people the wrong way.  I don't think she was a threat at all, except only in her mind.  She was entertaining on the show however, which is more than I can say for many of these people.

I find myself very irritated with Mitch on the other hand, mostly because he seems to be eating the show.  There are some people who have gotten little airtime (Chrissy, Charity, Bianca, Star) and yet every episode he seems to have a dominant chunk of airtime and confessionals. 

Good for him for not letting his speech impediment control his life.  There is something to be said about how he gave up a decent government job and pension to start over as a low paid gym teacher, a profession in which he has to speak and interact with children all day long.  With a speech impediment like his, it seems like teacher would be one of the last jobs someone would want, I can't imagine what it's like knowing that kids are making fun of you behind your back all day long.  So that's a +1 for his strength of character.

But this makes him a huge threat.  He seems somewhat smart and capable in challenges.  If either he or Eva make it to the end, they will win because of their perceived disability and their story.  They should have taken the opportunity to get rid of him while there were reduced voting numbers.

I would also have used the reduced numbers to take out Shauhin, who already thinks he is controlling the game.  I get why they took out Cedrek (terrible player and unpredictable) but still.

11 hours ago, North of Eden said:

My vote for the worst episode of the season.... between opening it with Mitch-fest followed up by an unending challenge as Jeff gets the big O from having two alpha male beefcakes in a showdown it just dragged. I was desperately bored and my mind was wandering.

I really think they should go back to 60 minute episodes.  I know they did 90s to fill up the airtime because of the writers strike, but the extra 30 minutes of filler every week is often painful.

And yes, that challenge will go down in Survivor history as one of Jeffy's favourites.  He always creams himself over the hunky muscled alpha males, I'm sure he was in heaven and wished it could have gone on forever.  The only thing that would have made it better is if at the one hour mark, they had to use one hand only.  In the other hand, they would hold a big ball.  Jeffy would have been beside himself gushing about David and Joe holding their big balls with one hand while holding onto the grip with the other!

9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

We also lose Cedrek, who . . . worst player ever? That would mean doing research, and I'm too lazy for that. It just seems fitting that he goes out following a challenge where he lasted twenty seconds. Or was it fifteen? Probst will probably whittle that down to ten when he talks about this episode. Poor Cedrek.

I would rank him among the worst ever.  Horrible in challenges, especially for a surgeon who you would think would have some hand skills and hand/eye coordination.  And for a surgeon he didn't seem book smart either.  Terrible at reading people.  Terrible social awareness.  Too emotional.  Too worried about hurting other people's feelings.

Who cast this guy?  Whoever picked him should be fired.  He was completely unsuited for this game in every which way and manner possible.

I seem to have skipped all of  the seasons after Tocantins and before Blood vs. Water, so I don't know who this Chet person is that was referred to above as competing with Cedrek for worst ever.  But I would submit Sean from Survivor Classic season 1 as pretty bad as well.  The doctor (dentist?) whose most notable contributions on camera were voting out players alphabetically and shaving his chest (this was when players got one luxury item each, and he brought a razor so he could shave his chest).  Granted, the game was new so nobody knew how to play.  But still, even if people didn't understand about alliances, you would think there would be a better way of determining who you want to vote out than picking by alphabetical order.

2 hours ago, violet and green said:

Pretty irritating that Sai, Mitch, and Chrissy couldn't shelve their differences and work together for one vote given that with Mitch's block a vote advantage they could have controlled that vote and got out someone with some power, like Eva! That would have been fun. Nobody would have seen it coming at all. Cue the outraged faces of the loyal integrous faction!

I don't understand why they aren't seeing Eva as a threat.  She is the physically strongest woman and a challenge threat.  She is a social threat because people love her story about her autism.

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Really the entire meathead alliance gets on my nerves now. Shauhin thinks he's a strategic genius, David thinks he's Mr. Universe, Joe believes he's an inspiration to all, and Eva is an unpleasant Queen Bee. I really, really want Kyle and Kamilla to destroy them.

Chrissy's speech was idiotic and Star nailed it. "I'm gonna lie to you, but not tonight!"

I'm not bothered by David.  I don't blame him for wanting to see a "strong person" win.  When was the last time the physically strong alpha male won the game?  The kind of person that Jeffy has dreams about?  Perhaps Tommy Sheehan, but I don't know if he was muscle-y enough for Jeffy.  Maybe Chris Underwood?

It always seems like the physically strong people get cut soon after the competition becomes individual immunity.  Like Jonathan from the season won by Maryanne, or John the "Mayor of Slamtown" from David v. Goliath.

Eva is not a Queen Bee.  She may be edited right now as a Queen Bee by the show, but she is well aware that she doesn't always pick up on social cues.  If anything, I think she would view herself as always an outsider.  She doesn't have any female friends and doesn't work well with other women.

Chrissy seems astute enough, a lot more than I would have thought.  She picked up on Bianca lying about not having a vote.  But then she opens her mouth and verbal diarrhea like her speech spills out.

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Oh, and I pointed this out last week but it bears repeating. I knew Shauhin was safe as soon as Jeff pulled his name out of the urn first. Because the first name pulled out is never, ever, ever the person going home. Do better, show. Switch it up once in awhile instead of telling us right off who's safe.

When Charity went out, I think the first vote was for Cedrek.  Then it was 2 Charity, 2 Sai at one point.  Then I think the next three were for Sai and it might have been 5 Sai, 2 Charity.  There was a shot of Charity and she was looking smug.  But then all of the remaining votes were for Charity.  So that was a bit unusual and atypical.  Usually they make it tied until the very last vote.

[paul4295]

(Blackwing just covered some of this same ground as I was writing, but here goes...)

I understand people not liking David, but I don't mind him so much.  I also find it a little refreshing that the physically strong people are trying to stick together, because I feel like we don't see that a lot anymore.  It's  a valid strategy for them, and not any worse than a "women's alliance," "underdog alliance," or anything else that's been done in the past.  You bond with people however you can in Survivor.

I feel like we get a lot of underwhelming Survivor winners these days, because the physically strong people get voted out as threats, and the good strategists get voted out as threats, and we're left with middling players at the end.

Also, it went on a little too long, but I thought Shauhin's sound effects were spot on, and hilarious.

Edited April 10 by paul4295
typo

[iMonrey]

29 minutes ago, paul4295 said:

I feel like we get a lot of underwhelming Survivor winners these days, because the physically strong people get voted out as threats, and the good strategists get voted out as threats, and we're left with middling players at the end.

That's been my feeling, exactly. It's partly because the show is so old and everyone knows it so well they are playing for the end-game on Day 1 instead of trying to keep their tribe strong. Cedrek should have been the first person voted out this season, and would have been if this were, say, Season 2 or 3. 

Cedrek was the easy vote this week though. It was too soon to break up the meathead alliance and turn on Shauhin. And the last thing on earth I'd want to see is Cedrek dragged all the way to the final three as a goat.

Same with Sai. I don't need another six weeks of her running her mouth just to end up as a final three goat with no votes. 

I don't think Sai was "good TV" either. She annoyed the hell out of me, and clearly she annoyed the hell out of her fellow tribe mates. 

43 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I find myself very irritated with Mitch on the other hand, mostly because he seems to be eating the show.  There are some people who have gotten little airtime (Chrissy, Charity, Bianca, Star) and yet every episode he seems to have a dominant chunk of airtime and confessionals. 

I can't decide if that's because the show thinks he's "good TV" or if it's because he's going to win.

[watch2much]

sigh, Sai...she was very annoying and hypocritical but she actually had some good insights at times.  she just couldn't keep her mouth shut. but not sorry to see her go, she definitely was tiring. I was impressed with David but with those massive arms no one else had a chance.  I miss the 39 day Survivor and hour long shows. this is like Survivor lite.

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

We also lose Cedrek, who . . . worst player ever? That would mean doing research, and I'm too lazy for that. It just seems fitting that he goes out following a challenge where he lasted twenty seconds. Or was it fifteen? Probst will probably whittle that down to ten when he talks about this episode. Poor Cedrek.

I don't think Cedrek is close to the worst player ever, as he has a good head on his shoulders, a good attitude and is generally likeable. The fact that he made it to the jury also IMO means that he's better than most of the people who don't last a couple episodes.

Even just this season he's basically the second best on a tribe of bad players, having been outlasted by only Mary.

Now his challenge performance has been abysmal, and yes, I suppose there's an argument there that few if anyone had done worse at challenges than him. I would say in recent seasons, Andy, Bhanu, Jelinsky and others probably have been as bad or worse. 

But again, Cedrek's older than most. In this particular challenge, I will defend him not even trying.

There was NO chance he was going to outperform David, Joe or Kyle on that one. None. I'm surprised that there aren't more people who don't insta-quit challenges that they have no shot of winning.

And he's a surgeon -- why risk long-term damage to his hands for the ego of trying to keep going 4 minutes, 10 minutes or whatever he might plausibly have done if there was something substantial on the line for him?

[Taeolas]

3 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

meant to add I was very disappointed to see the contestants broken up into random small voting groups. I don't care with doing it for purposes of a reward but I was hoping last week meant we'd go back to voting as the entire group old school style. Less luck; more play

I can't remember for certain, but they don't seem to do this often after the merge is finalized. But they do seem to do it when the Jury starts filling. I guess they like combining the drama of the Last non-jury vote out and the first jury vote in. It feels like we've seen it done this way for the past few seasons maybe (unless I'm misremembering)

[30 Helens]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

There is something to be said about how he gave up a decent government job and pension to start over as a low paid gym teacher,

How insane is it that he took a pay cut to move from mail carrier to teacher? Not saying mail carrier isn’t a worthy job, but teachers are so undervalued.

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, paul4295 said:

(Blackwing just covered some of this same ground as I was writing, but here goes...)

I understand people not liking David, but I don't mind him so much.  I also find it a little refreshing that the physically strong people are trying to stick together, because I feel like we don't see that a lot anymore.  It's  a valid strategy for them, and not any worse than a "women's alliance," "underdog alliance," or anything else that's been done in the past.  You bond with people however you can in Survivor.

I feel like we get a lot of underwhelming Survivor winners these days, because the physically strong people get voted out as threats, and the good strategists get voted out as threats, and we're left with middling players at the end.

Also, it went on a little too long, but I thought Shauhin's sound effects were spot on, and hilarious.

I think my issue with David is more that he acts like his type didn’t practically dominate before this new era and that somehow being good at puzzles doesn’t make you strong.  I think the tide turned because Jeff wants to make a game that’s always been about lying and backstabbing suddenly about sunshine, rainbows, and who can out-inspire the next person.  I’m not against a pretty person strength alliance, I just happen to dislike all the people in this alliance besides Kyle.  And the whole “we’re going to win with honesty and integrity”…yeah when they’ve lied the past two TC to the targets.
 

I really hope after S50 we get a big reset.  Some of these elements haven’t been working for a while and Probst just seems to stick his fingers in his ears so he doesn’t have to listen.  I think we get a lot of the outcomes we do because of the dynamics of the game now.  We literally had two people get voted out this season thanks to a dice roll.  

Edited April 10 by LadyChatts

[Tango64]

I don't know which is worse, the overly sensitive people who seethe with white hot resentment because "you wrote down my name!" or the people who want to just play nice, never betray anyone, and win with honesty and integrity.

This is a game designed with deception, lies, and betrayal as essential components. You knew that coming in. It's all fair and expected. You can't play poker and flip the table because somebody had a pair of twos and bluffed you into folding. And you're not going to win if you commit to never misleading anyone about your hand.

Just play the game. It's not a moral test.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think Cedrek is close to the worst player ever, as he has a good head on his shoulders, a good attitude and is generally likeable. The fact that he made it to the jury also IMO means that he's better than most of the people who don't last a couple episodes.

Even just this season he's basically the second best on a tribe of bad players, having been outlasted by only Mary.

Now his challenge performance has been abysmal, and yes, I suppose there's an argument there that few if anyone had done worse at challenges than him. I would say in recent seasons, Andy, Bhanu, Jelinsky and others probably have been as bad or worse. 

But again, Cedrek's older than most. In this particular challenge, I will defend him not even trying.

There was NO chance he was going to outperform David, Joe or Kyle on that one. None. I'm surprised that there aren't more people who don't insta-quit challenges that they have no shot of winning.

And he's a surgeon -- why risk long-term damage to his hands for the ego of trying to keep going 4 minutes, 10 minutes or whatever he might plausibly have done if there was something substantial on the line for him?

I'm wondering why he even wanted to be on the show.  This show is about physical challenges, mental toughness, strategic planning, and working with others.  He was abysmal at all of it.

How can a doctor be that physically inept?  The challenge where he and a partner had to use a pole to hold a ball, he kept falling off the beam.  This challenge was stacked in favour of muscle men like David and Joe.  I don't think he purposely gave up immediately.  I think he's that terrible and weak and failed very quickly.  Even if he didn't think he could win, how about trying to challenge himself?  "I came on this show to test myself, I know I am older and not that strong, but I want to see if I can outlast some of the younger guys."

As far as being a surgeon... if he's that concerned about his hands then he would not have come onto the show in the first place.  Living on a beach at the edge of a jungle.  Chopping bamboo with a machete.  Using a machete to open coconuts.  Chopping and gathering wood and palm leaves for the fire.  Not to mention the actual challenges.  There's plenty of opportunities to get injured on this show.

He didn't have the mental acuity for this game and seemed completely unable to make any strategic decisions.  It was just "who are we voting for, ok".  He didn't work out any scenarios as to the consequences of each choice and what might happen next time or two times from now.  He was just a follower sheep who did whatever someone else told him to do.

Above all, he broke down crying because he didn't want to hurt others.  What a complete loser.  He seems to be a complete introvert who has no idea how to interact with others.  I'm surprised that he can be a surgeon.  As a surgeon, he would need to lead a team of nurses and perhaps other doctors and give directions and instructions.  He should know how to be a leader.  If he does, absolutely none of that came across on this show.  He came across as an absolute zero.

[Duke Silver]

If I was on that island with the second group, my main reason for wanting to get rid of Cedrek would be so I wouldn't be stuck with him as a partner or team member in any upcoming challenges.  Ced seems like a nice enough fellow, but what in the hell was he actually good at (Survivor-related)?  Nothing as far as I can tell.

[Arkay]

I think that if Dr. Ced had a desire to be on Survivor, he should have signed up to be on the medical crew.

He had NO ability, physical or social, to play this game at all.

I tired of Sai’s antics long ago and was happy to see her and her delusions booted before the jury.

I know David is a showboating cartoon character, but still I had to laugh when everyone was near collapse and he was examining his nails.

 

From the outside looking in, to me it seems that that Mitch’s handicap  is more of an impediment than Eva’s, because it’s more overt.  I’d be ok with him winning.

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

48 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm wondering why he even wanted to be on the show.  This show is about physical challenges, mental toughness, strategic planning, and working with others.  He was abysmal at all of it.

How can a doctor be that physically inept?  The challenge where he and a partner had to use a pole to hold a ball, he kept falling off the beam.  This challenge was stacked in favour of muscle men like David and Joe.  I don't think he purposely gave up immediately.  I think he's that terrible and weak and failed very quickly.  Even if he didn't think he could win, how about trying to challenge himself?  "I came on this show to test myself, I know I am older and not that strong, but I want to see if I can outlast some of the younger guys."

As far as being a surgeon... if he's that concerned about his hands then he would not have come onto the show in the first place.  Living on a beach at the edge of a jungle.  Chopping bamboo with a machete.  Using a machete to open coconuts.  Chopping and gathering wood and palm leaves for the fire.  Not to mention the actual challenges.  There's plenty of opportunities to get injured on this show.

He didn't have the mental acuity for this game and seemed completely unable to make any strategic decisions.  It was just "who are we voting for, ok".  He didn't work out any scenarios as to the consequences of each choice and what might happen next time or two times from now.  He was just a follower sheep who did whatever someone else told him to do.

Above all, he broke down crying because he didn't want to hurt others.  What a complete loser.  He seems to be a complete introvert who has no idea how to interact with others.  I'm surprised that he can be a surgeon.  As a surgeon, he would need to lead a team of nurses and perhaps other doctors and give directions and instructions.  He should know how to be a leader.  If he does, absolutely none of that came across on this show.  He came across as an absolute zero.

I think you're being too hard on Cedrek, but at the end of the day we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think that being on a tribe of relatively weak players put him behind the curve in terms of food and other resource from the start. That said, I don't see him being abysmal about mental toughness. Yes, he cried after his pathetic performance in a challenge both about that and the likelihood he'd get booted. I'm not going to put that as abysmal without more examples.

Similarly, strategic planning, he was trying to work with what he had, which was not much. Would he have fared better on a better tribe? I'd say so. Would other players also have been dragged down by a tribe like Cedrek's original one? Probably to some extent. He made what I think was a poor decision to side with Sai over Pizza Guy, but there's some logic in it. Logic I disagree with, but he preferred to work with Sai over Pizza Guy. I think that he might have gone further if he did the other way. But again, "abysmal" is far too strong for that sort of misstep.

Working with others, I think he was not particularly good at it, but he wasn't particularly bad at it either. He brokered a detente between Mary and Sai, and he seemed to be well liked. Far from the bottom 20 percent.

I think it is insulting and unfair to say he didn't have the "mental acuity" for the game. I don't think he got a ton of confessionals so we didn't get a lot of what he was thinking. I don't see many examples of him being "a follower sheep who did whatever someone else told him to do" (although, honestly, it is a valid strategy to be like "anybody but me" and to lay low until the time is right to step up.) There is the counter-example of when the vote was in his hands to get rid of Pizza Guy or Sai. 

It's true of being a surgeon or any profession: a) there's not just one right way to be one and b) the skills in being a given profession do not necessarily translate well to the skills needed/desired to do well in Survivor.

To take the example of being "a leader," yes, hypothetically a surgeon needs to be in control and give orders, and expect them to be followed. But there's an accepted hierarchy when it comes to surgery, and protocols and hours and hours spent training and experiencing things for the precise subset of issues you might fiace.

Survivor doesn't have an accepted hierarchy and in fact being too bossy is an expressway to getting your torch snuffed in many cases. As repetitive as some aspects of Survivor remain, it's a different experience time because the mix of personalities and tribes makes it different. 

There's nothing wrong IMO with introverts. It's just that this show tends to feature extroverts or "loud" introverts. 

[IdEatThat]

what a snoozer of an episode.  I found myself fascinated by the varying amounts of facial hair the men have grown at this point.   Shauhin for the win!

I was glad to see Sai go because she irritated me and Cedrick because he bored the heck out of me.

Am I the only one who still thinks “who’s that?” anytime they show Chrissy?

[Haleth]

There’s a Chrissy?  (JK)

[eel2178]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm surprised that he can be a surgeon.  As a surgeon, he would need to lead a team of nurses and perhaps other doctors and give directions and instructions.  He should know how to be a leader.  If he does, absolutely none of that came across on this show.  He came across as an absolute zero.

I have known plenty of surgeons who are fully incapable of interacting with another human being unless that person was fully anesthetized, intubated and ventilator dependent. They don't realize that it is necessary to have a separate skill set to deal with patients who aren't currently under anesthesia.  

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

I have known plenty of surgeons who are fully incapable of interacting with another human being unless that person was fully anesthetized, intubated and ventilator dependent. They don't realize that it is necessary to have a separate skill set to deal with patients who aren't currently under anesthesia.  

Oh, they realize it - but most surgeons simply don’t care. 😝

[Blip]

I don't know how they came up with using 25% of body weight in the challenge to supposedly equalize the competition instead of some other percentage or some other measure such as size of hands.  How well people do in that challenge must also depend on who has the cleanest or least sweaty hands.

During the challenge Joe said things such as, "All I want to do is ___ing eat" and "I am so ____ing hungry".  After the challenge he was saying that thinking of his children is what motivated him to last so long.

[blackwing]

55 minutes ago, Blip said:

I don't know how they came up with using 25% of body weight in the challenge to supposedly equalize the competition instead of some other percentage or some other measure such as size of hands.  How well people do in that challenge must also depend on who has the cleanest or least sweaty hands.

Well, they have to come up with something to try and balance things slightly.  But even then it will be unfair.  Let’s say David weighs 225.  He’s obviously very fit.  If there is a shorter overweight person that weighs 225, that person gets the same weight as David. 
 

This challenge was a test of strength.  It will inherently favour the stronger contestants.  Every challenge to some extent will be unfair to some.  The challenges play to the strengths and weaknesses of each contestant.  But it’s not just about physical strength.  It’s also about grip strength.  
 

A recent contestant said he noticed a lot of challenges relied on grip strength so he made sure to do exercises before the show started to improve his grip strength.  And he did well on those challengers.  I think it was Charlie?  The one who got betrayed by his ally Maria when she was bitter and didn’t vote for him to win.  He was not a physically imposing guy but had good grip strength.  
 

Other challenges cater to other abilities.  Someone who does lots of yoga will be great at the many balancing challenges. Someone who is great at puzzles will do well on the puzzles.  Rachel won mostly because she was great at puzzles and Sam wasn’t.  She got immunity when she desperately needed it. 
 

Survivor has always been a little unfair, so I’m not sure how this challenge was any unfair than any other challenge