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S02.E12: Foiled Again

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
in Elsbeth

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ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

5 minutes ago, Js Nana said:

Angus, Elsbeth's love interest from Ep11, "Tiny Town," is a fireman, and when Kaya was telling Teddy about his mother's little romance with a Scotsman, Teddy asked if he was a fireman - why?

It sounded like this was a pattern that existed before this show.

Kays said that Elsbeth had a romance in Scotland - so I guess she returned there with Angus for a bit.

Elsbeth really needs to start surreptitiously recording conversations with bad guys.  A recording of the judge threatening "her friend," the acquitted defendant, would have landed him in a lot of trouble.

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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

(edited)
On 2/20/2025 at 11:29 PM, Js Nana said:

Angus, Elsbeth's love interest from Ep11, "Tiny Town," is a fireman, and when Kaya was telling Teddy about his mother's little romance with a Scotsman, Teddy asked if he was a fireman - why?

I wondered that too. He also said he noticed things that other people didn’t.  Like Elsbeth. But he was attributing it to his philosophy study, not genes. He must have known something about Angus somehow.  Maybe he had seen the art exhibit. That’s all I got. 
ETA:  I didn’t clock all those fireman references. Duh. Thank you, later posters. 

Edited by EtheltoTillie
TheOtherOne

TheOtherOne

(edited)

They've been establishing Elsbeth having a thing for firemen (or them for her?) all season (if not longer).

The one in episode 2

464508888_2010215899426141_6074545325607823922_n.thumb.jpg.ace4589b6a6b2d2bb2357f7c3a557875.jpg

The one in the Christmas episode.

7sparks.thumb.webp.7e8c6555185547cffa80c3fac43f7f13.webp

 

From TVLine's interview with Carrie Preston last week:
 

TVLINE | Even though there was tons of physical comedy for you in this episode, which was delightful, no moment made me laugh more than when Angus revealed that he’s a fireman.

[Laughs] I know.

TVLINE | What was your reaction when you first saw that in the script?

It was the most perfect way to end the episode, because here we are, thinking that this guy is so different from any of these other guys that keep coming onto her, and it turns out, that’s really how he makes his living, on top of being a musician. [Laughs] So, yeah, I just thought it was perfect, and in a way, it was surprise, but no surprise for Elsbeth.

TVLINE | Is she going to give firemen a second chance now? Because it seemed like she was really writing them all off.

I think she’s just used to guys like that coming after her for maybe superficial reasons, and then this was definitely not superficial. This was a real connection with somebody who flew all the way across the world to meet her in-person. So I don’t think she’s going to suddenly take firemen seriously now any more than she did before.

Edited by TheOtherOne
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Yeah No

Yeah No

10 hours ago, Js Nana said:

Angus, Elsbeth's love interest from Ep11, "Tiny Town," is a fireman, and when Kaya was telling Teddy about his mother's little romance with a Scotsman, Teddy asked if he was a fireman - why?

It's become a running joke of the show. I guess her son was kidding because he'd heard of the other firemen in other cases she was on that flirted with her.

As for this episode, I liked it. I wondered if that was City College they used for the college set. I worked for 10 years in college admissions so I know how competitive it can get. 

Although back when Matthew Broderick and Elsbeth were young Philosophy was still not seen as a great major for a career. I oughta know, I'm older and majored in it. Even then it was seen as not the best career prep. But U. of Illinois is nothing to feel down about. I'm glad Elsbeth realized that her son did right by himself and she accepts him and his choices. It made me shed a tear because my parents were like that. I never felt like I failed them or myself. 

I didn't know there was such a thing as a "hypoallergenic cat". I'm not allergic to cats but that was news to me.

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Nashville

Nashville

14 hours ago, Js Nana said:

Angus, Elsbeth's love interest from Ep11, "Tiny Town," is a fireman, and when Kaya was telling Teddy about his mother's little romance with a Scotsman, Teddy asked if he was a fireman - why?

It’s become one of the show’s running jokes that firemen have a pronounced tendency to fixate romantically upon Elsbeth - presumably on account of her hair inspiring incendiary associations…?

Elsbeth’s own reaction to such displays generally appears to be bemused frustration, which gives the definite impression Elsbeth has gotten (a)very used to this behavior over the years, and (b) pretty skilled at deflecting such attention - but it is also worthy of note Angus is the first firefighter Elsbeth hasn’t immediately rejected out of hand as a romantic prospect.

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Js Nana

Js Nana

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I didn't know there was such a thing as a "hypoallergenic cat".

I didn't either, so I googled "hypoallergenic cats" and these were the breeds that were listed: Sphynx, Siberian, Balinese, Cornish Rex, Devon Rex, Russian Blue, Oriental Shorthair, Javanese, Siamese, Burmese, Ocicat and Selkirk Rex.

16 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

A recording of the judge threatening "her friend," the acquitted defendant, would have landed him in a lot of trouble.

Not sure if recording a conversation with someone without that someone knowing about it is illegal in New York.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

Fun episode.  Matthew Broderick's character reminds me of his character from the movie Election.  He does stuffy but sinister well. 

Also he really must have been a garbage person if his daughter isn't the least bit upset he was arrested for murder. I am so happy the show didn't have him kill the cat.  Whew!

I continue to love the callbacks on the show, with Elsbeth promising not to make duck at her dinner party.

Aww, look at Lt. Connor being part of the team/family and even making jokes you can't even tell are jokes.

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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

4 hours ago, Js Nana said:

I didn't either, so I googled "hypoallergenic cats" and these were the breeds that were listed: Sphynx, Siberian, Balinese, Cornish Rex, Devon Rex, Russian Blue, Oriental Shorthair, Javanese, Siamese, Burmese, Ocicat and Selkirk Rex.

Not sure if recording a conversation with someone without that someone knowing about it is illegal in New York.

One party consent is legal in NY. But lawyers aren’t supposed to use it as it violates the ethics rules.  

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Yeah No

Yeah No

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Fun episode.  Matthew Broderick's character reminds me of his character from the movie Election.  He does stuffy but sinister well. 

I love Matthew Broderick and this episode but I have a minor nitpick with the way he played this role. Pretty much no one in admissions is "stuffy". Most are gladhanding, outgoing "people people", similar to a salespeople. Now sinister is something I have witnessed in college admissions. The director I worked under was a malignant narcissist that favored certain candidates over others based on how much money their parents contributed to the school, etc. The admissions committee had to be made up of people that would defer to that. And they did. I saw grades and SAT scores that never should have been accepted. He later went to another university and when he was fired from there went into business for himself doing just what Matthew Broderick was doing here. I saw him interviewed online a couple of years ago talking about how ethics is very important in that business but why do I not believe him? I could have seen him play this role very easily. No offense to Matthew but I can't get that out of my head.

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MerBearHou

MerBearHou

1 hour ago, tinderbox said:

I didn’t know Matthew’s son appeared in this episode.  What part did he play?

James Willkie played the nondescript assistant / receptionist at Lawrence’s firm.  He greeted arrivals and at the end, he had a quiet, brief line when he said he’d help the candidate while Lawrence was being arrested and taken away.  He shrugged like “why not?” — it was a little bit funny.  Is his character supposed to be Lawrence’s son — I think IMDB shows Lawrence and him having the same last name.  

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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

On 2/20/2025 at 11:49 PM, AnimeMania said:

James Wilkie Broderick has zero presence on screen, he blends right into the background.

Talk about nepo baby!  Doesn’t have his parents’ star quality. Matthew B is also the son of a star. I used to watch his dad on that Seventies TV show, Family. But both Matthew and SJP started acting very young and succeeded on their own merits. 
They didn’t seem to make much of the son in the episode, whereas the daughter was a more important character. Sort of an odd imbalance. 

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tinderbox

tinderbox

9 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

James Willkie played the nondescript assistant / receptionist at Lawrence’s firm.  He greeted arrivals and at the end, he had a quiet, brief line when he said he’d help the candidate while Lawrence was being arrested and taken away.  He shrugged like “why not?” — it was a little bit funny.  Is his character supposed to be Lawrence’s son — I think IMDB shows Lawrence and him having the same last name.  

Thank you. (Anime, too)  I never would have guessed. He looks nothing like either one of his parents.  

ECM1231

ECM1231

(edited)
On 2/20/2025 at 11:49 PM, AnimeMania said:

James Wilkie Broderick has zero presence on screen, he blends right into the background.

I just saw the episode tonight and I don't remember even seeing this guy. I only remember Matthew Broderick's character having a daughter .Did the son work in the office?

 

Never mind: just saw MerBerHou explanation.

Edited by ECM1231
AnimeMania

AnimeMania

20 minutes ago, driver18 said:

Good episode, but am I the only one who thinks that overall Teddy is kinda a jerk to Elsbeth? I really don't like him.

It seems like Teddy doesn't like it when people do things for him because of who his parents are, instead of receiving things based on his own merits. He did take the study guide book at the end of the episode, maybe he is contemplating a career change and a move to New York.

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ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

(edited)
On 2/21/2025 at 8:41 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

One party consent is legal in NY. But lawyers aren’t supposed to use it as it violates the ethics rules.  

If someone makes a threat or tries to blackmail you, you are permitted to expose that threat. And I believe the ethics rule applies to a lawyer secretly taping a witness or adversary in a legal proceeding. Elsbeth is a private citizen in her "dispute" with the judge, even though he trolled her by mentioning she was a lawyer and had probably acted unethically with regard to that client she had represented in Chicago (who had also threatened her.)

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

(edited)
2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If someone makes a threat or tries to blackmail you, you are permitted to expose that threat. And I believe the ethics rule applies to a lawyer secretly taping a witness or adversary in a legal proceeding. Elsbeth is a private citizen in her "dispute" with the judge, even though he trolled her by mentioning she was a lawyer and had probably acted unethically with regard to that client she had represented in Chicago (who had also threatened her.)

That's a good point, but I was just trying to give the general rule.   But she already skirted rules so ridiculously back during that jury episode.  Bananas!  She's all over the place. Am I to understand that she doesn't know yet that the judge is the killer?  So she doesn't know what she's really trying to uncover? 

Edited by EtheltoTillie
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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

14 hours ago, driver18 said:

Good episode, but am I the only one who thinks that overall Teddy is kinda a jerk to Elsbeth? I really don't like him.

No.  I think this feels typical of a certain dynamic where Teddy loves his mother but is trying to establish who he is and his boundaries. 

He wants to determine the course of his life but we see Elsbeth also has a vision for him that she doesn't exactly hide.  She wants him in NY even though he doesn't seem to want to move there.  She keeps pushing the lawyer idea on him even though he has expressed no interest in law.  And he just found out that his mom's boss got his job for him, his mom knew and didn't tell him. She may not be overly overbearing but I do think he has the right to be a bit prickly.  When we were presented their dynamic, it felt like it had been going on for a while.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
14 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Am I to understand that she doesn't know yet that the judge is the killer? 

There was a line Elsbeth delivered in this episode in her scene in the back of the limo with the judge (Michael Emerson) which followed the established template for Elsbeth when she is letting the killer know that she knows they're the killer without her explicitly stating it.

Columbo used to do the same.

Edited by shapeshifter
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jabRI

jabRI

I generally like this show, but I find it a bit annoying that she figures 80% out within the first few minutes, then just needs the details.  And i don't think the detective (she was great on third watch) would have said 'mysterious blue fiber' rather than 'unidentified blue fiber'.  For that matter, how hard should it be to identify cashmere?  But finding the cat at the shelter was a nice touch!

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12catcrazy

12catcrazy

On 2/21/2025 at 4:22 PM, Js Nana said:

I didn't either, so I googled "hypoallergenic cats" and these were the breeds that were listed: Sphynx, Siberian, Balinese, Cornish Rex, Devon Rex, Russian Blue, Oriental Shorthair, Javanese, Siamese, Burmese, Ocicat and Selkirk Rex.

 

Ok, so I'm going to add my obnoxious two cents here.  

The "quad cat" was a Devon Rex.  My sister who is very allergic to cats, had two Devon Rex's, both of which she gave to our parents, and then I inherited one of them. I also inherited a Cornish Rex.   My sister currently has a few Sphynx cats (the naked one in the photo).  

No cat is really "hypoallergenic" and I'm rather surprised at Siamese, Russian Blues, Burmese, and Ocicats being on the list.   Most  people with cat allergies  are actually allergic to a protein in cat saliva, which is all over the cats when they groom themselves.  The Rex breeds have very short (mostly curly)  hair that doesn't shed all over the place like most cats.  Needless to say, neither do Sphynx cats (or a very similar breed called the Peterbald).  Since you don't have tons of hair flying all over the place, it lessens the allergenic particles flying around as much.  You can also wipe the cats down with a damp washcloth and that also helps remove the allergens from the cat.   The Sphynxes are kind of greasy as they don't have the hair to absorb the normal skin oils.  My sister has told me that she has to give them baths every so often to keep them clean.  

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ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

(edited)
On 2/23/2025 at 1:28 PM, Irlandesa said:

No.  I think this feels typical of a certain dynamic where Teddy loves his mother but is trying to establish who he is and his boundaries. 

He wants to determine the course of his life but we see Elsbeth also has a vision for him that she doesn't exactly hide.  She wants him in NY even though he doesn't seem to want to move there.  She keeps pushing the lawyer idea on him even though he has expressed no interest in law.  And he just found out that his mom's boss got his job for him, his mom knew and didn't tell him. She may not be overly overbearing but I do think he has the right to be a bit prickly.  When we were presented their dynamic, it felt like it had been going on for a while.

I agree with all of this.  Elsbeth doesn't exactly keep all her opinions to herself with people she cares about (see Kaya and her tenant), and it's completely normal for even grown children to want their parents to listen more and interfere less.  I'm not surprised at all that he was unhappy to hear that he didn't get his job completely on his own merit.

On 2/23/2025 at 7:24 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Am I to understand that she doesn't know yet that the judge is the killer?  So she doesn't know what she's really trying to uncover? 

On 2/23/2025 at 6:20 PM, snarktini said:

The way I'm interpreting it so far is she's sure he is involved somehow, but doesn't necessarily know he was the actual killer.

On 2/23/2025 at 5:38 PM, shapeshifter said:

There was a line Elsbeth delivered in this episode in her scene in the back of the limo with the judge (Michael Emerson) which followed the established template for Elsbeth when she is letting the killer know that she knows they're the killer without her explicitly stating it.

21 hours ago, christie said:

I thought that she realised he was the killer but couldn't prove it.

I don't think she has actually decided that the judge entered the victim's apartment and beat him to death with a baseball bat himself, since that's almost impossible to imagine.  I suppose she might think he hired someone to do it, though.  I personally believe since she still doesn't know what the judge's connection to the victim is, she's not sure what his connection to the murderer is. He could be protecting someone else, for instance, or he could have been bribed. (I suppose she could also suspect he might have been blackmailed, but he's too much the mustache-twirling villain for that to be the explanation.)

  

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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MaryMitch

MaryMitch

45 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Ok, so I'm going to add my obnoxious two cents here.  

The "quad cat" was a Devon Rex.  My sister who is very allergic to cats, had two Devon Rex's, both of which she gave to our parents, and then I inherited one of them. I also inherited a Cornish Rex.   My sister currently has a few Sphynx cats (the naked one in the photo).  

No cat is really "hypoallergenic" and I'm rather surprised at Siamese, Russian Blues, Burmese, and Ocicats being on the list.   Most  people with cat allergies  are actually allergic to a protein in cat saliva, which is all over the cats when they groom themselves.  The Rex breeds have very short (mostly curly)  hair that doesn't shed all over the place like most cats.  Needless to say, neither do Sphynx cats (or a very similar breed called the Peterbald).  Since you don't have tons of hair flying all over the place, it lessens the allergenic particles flying around as much.  You can also wipe the cats down with a damp washcloth and that also helps remove the allergens from the cat.   The Sphynxes are kind of greasy as they don't have the hair to absorb the normal skin oils.  My sister has told me that she has to give them baths every so often to keep them clean.  

Let me add my own obnoxious two cents: that guy didn't know how to properly use an inhaler. (And as someone who is also very allergic to cats, I appreciate you pointing out the info about the hypoallergenic breeds; I would never have a cat, but that's good to know.)

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laredhead

laredhead

17 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

Let me add my own obnoxious two cents: that guy didn't know how to properly use an inhaler. (

I have an inhaler because I have asthma, and I immediately thought that was the wrong way to use an inhaler when I saw the actor using it.  However, even if he had used it properly, it wasn't going to "cure" his breathing problem.  Removing the cat was the solution to his reaction in that scene.  BTW, my grandson has an allergy to dog hair, and not cat hair which I find odd.  Glad it's that way though, because his household had 3 cats, but no dogs.   

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Cowgirl

Cowgirl

(edited)

I'm allergic to both cats and dogs and thought, "There really ARE NO hypoallergenic cats!" I love them, but every single one makes me break out in hives, etc. That is interesting though, about the Sphynx cats being greasy. I never would have thought of that, but it makes sense. I have never come across one. 

My former allergist, who had no allergies of her own, used to bring her little toy poodle to work, because he was supposed to be hypoallergenic.  That astounded me. Of course, animals love me and I can't resist them, since I can't have one of my own, and that dog would come hang out with me and I'd go home with a rash. My next allergist had allergies herself, which was a nice change because she understood her patients much better.

Oh, and I completely agree about the inhaler!! Heck, the way that guy was using the inhaler, he could have just gotten it near his mask and sprayed. He'd get nearly as much inhalant as he usually does, spraying it into his open mouth.

And, I had forgotten that Michael Emerson was Carrie Preston's hubby, so thanks for that! They are both such good actors, I never would have guessed.  I also didn't know that was Michael Broderick's son. In fact, I completely forgot that character was in there.  

Edited by Cowgirl
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SomeTameGazelle

SomeTameGazelle

(edited)
On 2/24/2025 at 6:49 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I agree with all of this.  Elsbeth doesn't exactly keep all her opinions to herself with people she cares about (see Kaya and her tenant), and it's completely normal for even grown children to want their parents to listen more and interfere less.  I'm not surprised at all that he was unhappy to hear that he didn't get his job completely on his own merit.

It stressed me out when Teddy reacted badly (even though he had a point) so I was glad that he reached out to make up with her and also that even though it was his boyfriend's idea he wasn't trying to have it both ways -- he was just forthright about it. And if Teddy isn't in town it would still be nice for Elsbeth to see Roy (Ray?) and get to know him.

 

Edited by SomeTameGazelle
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