S02.E05: Capt. Duke Wagner’s Daughter

[DanaK]

Quote

TUESDAY, APRIL 2, 8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT 

As threats against Amanda escalate, Will investigates, narrowing down a list of potential suspects. Amidst the tension, Amanda is forced to confront moments from her past. Meanwhile, Ormewood struggles in Gina's absence.

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

[Snazzy Daisy]

Sneak Peek: Amanda's Hate Mail - Will Trent

 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Team Amanda.  All the way.

[fastiller]

10 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Team Amanda.  All the way.

Same! Tho I get Faith's comment at the end, too. How terrible it must be for her to see her Mum (whether deserved) be called corrupt and her sort-of Aunt too.

With Jenna Elfman guesting & Christensen, I sure hope this show doesn't become overly cast w $cientologists. It takes me away from the story thinking of the actors' affiliations w the group. 

Edited April 3 by fastiller

[possibilities]

How much does Will know about Amanda's attempt to adopt him? He seemed surprised when he saw the baby photo, but he didn't ask her about it, either.

[Driad]

For Ormewood

[AnimeMania]

I am not sure why anyone would believe that Amanda was able to remove that gigantic coffee grinder from the crime scene under the noses of the 30 police officers and hide it in her condo.

Why does Ormwood have that giant bruise on his face, I don't remember him getting into an altercation.

How did Faith (and the rest of the department?) know about what Amanda did to Chuck Murray, unless it was written on the "Amanda Murder" Board. I don't think Will or Amanda would have told her/them.

Boy, that SWAT team was really, really good, but I think Betty spotted them.

It is amazing how empty a street can get, in the middle of the day, when two cars crash into each other.

[possibilities]

Maybe the SWAT team heard Amanda and Will talking in the woods?

There's no reason they should have believed anything on the "murder board" and could easily have chalked it up to a ranting maniac. 

Oremwood said the bruise was from the guy who was sleeping with his wife. He went to talk to him to find out where she was and apparently their "talk" turned to blows.

 

[KittenPokerCheater]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Why does Ormwood have that giant bruise on his face, I don't remember him getting into an altercation.

I think it might have been one of two things:

They filmed the scene with the his wife’s boyfriend but it got cut for time.

Maybe the actor got a scrape on his face and they had to write in an excuse.

I got nothin’

[marceline]

It looks like this will ripple through this show's relationships for a while.

It's hard for me to have sympathy for Gina when she just disappears and tells her sister to lie about it. 

Seeing Amanda get swatted was scary. The cops claimed someone called in that a woman was pointing a semi-automatic at kids in the park so they target a woman running with her friend and a chihuahua?

Seriously where is Will getting these sweaters for Betty? They're adorable.

[dleighg]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Why does Ormwood have that giant bruise on his face, I don't remember him getting into an altercation

that whole thing confused me. So was she having an affair (hence the boyfriend) or was she in a health facility? Or both????

I also wondered how Faith knew about what Amanda did way back when. I assumed that Will told her, but that seems off as well.

[Badsamaritan]

Is it possible I care even less for Ormewood and his sad family than I did last week? Why yes, yes it is. His whole story just feels like an attempt to make him less of a caricature and it so not working for me in any way. It's actually making it worse because now I actively dislike his entire family - wife, kids, sister-in-law, the man who cheated with the wife, the mental health facility the wife ran to, the writers for subjecting us to this storyline, the episode director, the showrunners, hair & makeup, even the craft food service people. That is how much I dislike the Ormewood character. Like, I'm actively rooting for a sinkhole to open up and just swallow his whole house with everybody inside. No survivors. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I am also Team Amanda, all day every day. And her father was a piece of shit for telling her to hide it, and he should've been the one hunting that man down for what he did to his daughter. That man needed to be put down like the animal he was. And, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Faith help out a wrongly accused prisoner last season? Helped hide him from the actual murderer who turned out to be a cop? Faith, gurl, you need to get your ass up off your shoulders with that attitude towards Amanda. 😒

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, dleighg said:

that whole thing confused me. So was she having an affair (hence the boyfriend) or was she in a health facility? Or both????

I also wondered how Faith knew about what Amanda did way back when. I assumed that Will told her, but that seems off as well.

Orwood's wife had an affair, after Ormwood had one. Orwood's wife checked herself into a mental health facility.

I doubt Will would tell Amanda's business, since Ormwood and Will did not tell Angie's business, and Angie's was way worse than what Amanda did.

[bioprof]

Sigh….another potentially good crime procedural turned into yet another soap opera. The show should be good enough without all the personal backstory garbage. Just think of the original Law and Order ( the mothership ). We had oblique references to wives and husbands but it never got in the way of the story. I think writers today are just lazy…throw in emotional baggage when you can’t write a decent story otherwise. These actors deserve better. This week’s episode was flat out embarassing. 

[jabRI]

This was well-acted as usual, but I feel like they threw too much into this.  It seems like her setting up her attacker came up out of nowhere, and I had trouble keeping all the people straight... the daughter, the sister... and I don't buy Gina just checking herself in, no lead up to that either.

 

Maybe its just me, I couldn't get closed captioning to work so I was struggling to follow all the dialogue.  But yeah, there's no way she got the murder weapon home, she was alone with the victim for like less than 2 minutes.  AS soon as all the outsider police showed up, they would have searched her just to rule it out later that they did their due diligence.  And yeah, her dad should have helped her out.   She was a patrol cop, how did she get a month leave of absence with no documentation?  Too many plot holes that were not thought through.  Also had no idea how the girl in the shed fit in.

[milkyaqua]

1 hour ago, jabRI said:

Also had no idea how the girl in the shed fit in.

She was the daughter of the murdered janitor.

As for how Faith knew about Amanda, I still don't get how.  Even with the murderer's Amanda board, unless he spelled out somewhere or had a list saying what she'd done, I don't buy that Will or Amanda would have told Faith, Angie or Ormewood.  Maybe it'll be explained later but yes, all the principals have done stuff that would be considered shady.  And I also balked at the murder weapon at Amanda's because when was she supposed to have put it there?

I get TPTB are trying to make Ormewood more rounded but I don't really care.

And yes, the SWAT takedown in the park made no sense and Amanda's dad was an ass.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, jabRI said:

Also had no idea how the girl in the shed fit in.

The girl in the shed was the daughter of the janitor that scratched the message on the elevator door. Holding her hostage was how Chuck got the janitor to comply to his demands.

[possibilities]

Am I the only one who thought the SWAT team overheard the conversation between Will and Amanda and that's how her secret got exposed? Will was yelling at her about planting evidence. 

Of course, that team was not very observant, because they didn't notice that she didn't have an assault weapon or that there were no children around being threatened before they swooped. 

So maybe they weren't listening, either.

 

 

[Dowel Jones]

13 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

It is amazing how empty a street can get, in the middle of the day, when two cars crash into each other.

Plus, it is really difficult to plan a T-bone collision with that kind of force.  Timing is everything.

[Snazzy Daisy]

It’s a well acted episode but blemished by some plot holes and bad editing.

Chuck Murray is a heinous, scary dude. He’s better off dead. The way he planted the murder weapon is plain stupid.

The show needs to find another way to humanize Michael because this arc with Gina isn’t working. Gina isn’t likeable and relatable enough. Keep her offscreen.

Next episode will be another soap opera with Will’s uncle. 😣

[howiveaddict]

Amanda has the crap beat out of  her and only has a small bandage, on her face, when she returns to the station.    I hate  how victims don't look like they've been beat afterwards.

[kaygeeret]

I agree with most of the comments above.

that said, this core group of actors is soooooo damn GOOD!  I actually watch the show instead of reading and checking in sometimes.

The actor playing the rapist was so menacing that I was actually afraid - - and I haven't felt threatened by a tv/movie bad guy in many, many years.

It would be lovely if the writers and showrunners could come up with story lines that are a bit more cohesive?  Believable?

I wonder if the horrors of the books are in the way and they are trying to write/create new story lines without quite succeeding.

 

[I Want My MBTV]

This episode was intense!  I was even worried for poor Betty in that backpack!  I need some levity folks!  

When young Amanda pulled that creep over and he was taking so long to get his documents I thought he was going to pull a gun and I kept yelling at her to draw her weapon. Then when she saw the nails (which I thought meant he was making a bomb) I was yelling at her to go back to her car and just call in his plate and get out!  Unfortunately, she did not listen to me.

I understand Will and Faith's point and no one wants a cop planting evidence but I also totally empathize with Amanda. She tried to do it by the book and it didn't work (and her Dad was an ass).  If only this dude had been in Miami then Dexter (or his dad given the year) could've acted their form of justice on him and no one would have had to worry about him ever again.

[Dowel Jones]

The problem with vigilante justice is that the perpetrator now gives carte blanche to anyone else, police or not, to do the same thing in revenge for a perceived hurt of any kind.

[Simba122504]

On 4/3/2024 at 10:03 AM, bioprof said:

Sigh….another potentially good crime procedural turned into yet another soap opera. The show should be good enough without all the personal backstory garbage. Just think of the original Law and Order ( the mothership ). We had oblique references to wives and husbands but it never got in the way of the story. I think writers today are just lazy…throw in emotional baggage when you can’t write a decent story otherwise. These actors deserve better. This week’s episode was flat out embarassing. 

Didn't the original L&O have a bloated main cast from the beginning?  It also wasn't based on a book series. I never watched any L&O or regular cop shows in general. I say "Regular" because  I'm excluding stuff like "The X-Files" and "The Profiler." As I'm getting older, I'm turning into my parents. 😄 This is the first time I've watched new and old cop shows.  I'm also not the biggest fan of Ormewood, but even his character needed meat on the bones. It doesn't necessarily have to be him and Gina, but it has to be something. And right now it's about how he neglected his family,  which is realistic when it comes to the job. Younger Amanda would have needed the emergency room. That bastard was huge. What Amanda did wasn't right, but I understand. It's strange that the Captain didn't make sure the rapist got what was coming to him after what he did to his daughter. The police will overlook other victims,  but would turn everything upset down when it involves their families. He would have never seen the streets again. 

Edited April 4 by Simba122504

[jabRI]

4 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Ormewood

I like a lot the actor that plays him, wish he had better writing to go with his abilities.

[mrsbagnet]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:55 PM, possibilities said:

How much does Will know about Amanda's attempt to adopt him? He seemed surprised when he saw the baby photo, but he didn't ask her about it, either.

Faith's mom told him everything. That might have been the first time he's ever seen a photo of himself that young. He seemed really touched to find it.

[peeayebee]

On 4/3/2024 at 12:07 PM, AnimeMania said:

The girl in the shed was the daughter of the janitor that scratched the message on the elevator door. Holding her hostage was how Chuck got the janitor to comply to his demands.

Thank you! I missed that explanation. I guess it's because I was really tired when I watched, but I also missed a lot of the plot holes that people here have pointed out. And I didn't quite follow some other stuff.

Does anyone know who played the rapist in the flashback scenes? It was a different actor, right? Anyway, he looked familiar. All the scenes with him (past and present) were so intense and scary. 

Hated seeing the policemen being so happy that Amanda was a suspect. 

Amanda looked great in that press-conference dress. I also loved the little wave she did to Will in the mirror.

I don't know what it'll take for me to enjoy the Ormewood character. I really don't think that's possible. I can tolerate him if it's just him investigating. So, yeah, the family stuff is not interesting and a time-waster to me.

 

[Court]

Does anyone know where I can find the sweatshirt Faith was wearing? It might have been the previous episode.     It said Atlanta influences everything 

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Does anyone know who played the rapist in the flashback scenes?

Michael Papajohn as Chuck Murray

[mrsbagnet]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Thank you! I missed that explanation. I guess it's because I was really tired when I watched, but I also missed a lot of the plot holes that people here have pointed out. And I didn't quite follow some other stuff.

Does anyone know who played the rapist in the flashback scenes? It was a different actor, right? Anyway, he looked familiar. All the scenes with him (past and present) were so intense and scary.

 

 

28 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Michael Papajohn as Chuck Murray

Yes, it was two different actors. The actor in the flashbacks was Chad Gall.

[sharifa70]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:11 AM, jabRI said:

She was a patrol cop, how did she get a month leave of absence with no documentation? 

If she put in for FMLA she wouldn’t need to disclose the medical reason. The form doesn’t require the doctor’s diagnosis - just “patient needs X amount of time off” and that’s it. And yes, FMLA was a thing in 1995 - the law was passed in 1993.

[Irlandesa]

20 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Didn't the original L&O have a bloated main cast from the beginning?

I wouldn't call it bloated.  In the original L&O, there have always been 6 main characters.  3 from the law side and 3 from the order side, although the supervising characters (lieutenant and elected DA) had smaller roles than the two detectives, ADA and assistant to the ADA.  But since they didn't really go deep into their personal lives, all the screen time is usually related to the case they're working on.

But you're right, it's not based on a book series and it really wasn't interested in exploring the psyche of the characters.  Over the course of many seasons, you learned about the main characters through their relationship to the cases or bits of conversation they'd throw in while on a stakeout but they rarely showed us their home lives. 

This show has been the opposite from the beginning.  It's centered on Trent and they like to tell stories about his background.  And usually, I'm okay with that.  The thing I didn't like about this episode is that both stories related back to personal history.  The case about Amanda was personal.  Then we also have to deal with Ormewood's home life.  I don't hate that story as much as others do but they could have given it a rest in this episode.  If they do more personal stories, I prefer when the B story is more procedural in nature.

[DEL901]

With the Amanda situation starting off in last week’s episode, I thought this would be a multi episode story arc.  I’m a bit disappointed it resolved so quickly.  

[fishcakes]

16 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

Faith's mom told him everything. That might have been the first time he's ever seen a photo of himself that young. He seemed really touched to find it.

I like the little moments where you see how much Amanda loves Will like a son, like right after the car crash when she looked over and Will was unconscious she cried out, "Wilbur!" and was trying to cut him loose. So far, the writers and actors are presenting that relationship in a nicely understated way.

[seacliffsal]

Everything tied up too neatly and too quickly IMO.  So, he's been planning his revenge for 30 years, yet has his Amanda board and hostage on his father's property which he most likely knew would be searched?  I think someone focused on revenge would have taken an extra day to find a villain's liar before enacting his plan.

Loved Will's doggie carrier/back pack when he was running with Amanda.  And, I guess villain of the week called in the gun sighting to keep targeting Amanda?  

Oh, and like others, don't care about the wife going to a mental health facility and the family drama centered on the cop (whose name I obviously don't know).

[tennisgurl]

That certainly got intense, those flashbacks were hard to watch. I knew something bad would happen to young Amanda but things escalated so quickly and got so scary. I can get why she planted evidence to get that piece of shit off the streets, but I can also see why Faith and Will were so hurt. Planting evidence, even if you know without a shadow of a doubt that they're guilty, can lead to all sorts of other consequences, if she got caught and it wasn't hushed up that could lead to every other person she arrested being looked at again even if every other arrest was on the up and up and guilty people could be set free, its just a hard situation she was in. Screw her dad, what an asshole. 

I am so not interested in Oremwood's family drama, he's a sucky husband and I don't love that his wife just disappeared without even telling her husband or kids where she was.

I hope those SWAY guys who almost shot Amanda feel really fucking stupid. "A woman threatening children with a weapon? Get that lady jogging not anywhere near any other people except her friend and a chihuahua in a sweater! Who knows what that sweater wearing dog is capable of!"

[Badsamaritan]

The SWAT scene was terrible but man, Ramon and Sonja were terrific. From Amanda's first expression when she saw the red dot on her, to Will ready to fight and yelling at them about who they was fuckin with, back to Amanda's expression when they slammed her face down on the ground and the fear and PTSD that had to come up for her. Bravo. 

Will and Amanda and Faith and even Paul Campano have layers. And I think therein lies my issue with Ormewood. He started off one dimensional and stayed that way. The writers are now trying to give him layers with his sad family life but it's much too late at this point for me. He's background noise and I wish he would stay there. When the GPD and GBI cases don't cross, I have no use for the regular cops. I wish they would restructure in S3 and drop them and just have the GBI stories. 

[SnapHappy]

I'm OK with what they're doing with Wormwood (Yes, I know), since he's Angie's partner.  As long as they don't get too in depth with his story, he's now functioning as a single parent, so that impacts Angie's stories. 

I love Amanda's relationship with Will too.  2 very unemotional individuals that truly care about each other is nice to see.  

Rapist dude was scary, but his dad freaked me out more.  The type to defend his kid at all costs.  Even though we know Murray wasn't actually a dealer, that kind of parent would have excused his being a rapist beater.  And he HAD to know some shit was going down in that shed.  

Faith doesn't know what being a female professional in a male-dominated field was like back in the day.  And unless you were there, you can't know the pressures.  She needs to back off with the judging.  No, planting evidence is not right, but she may just find herself in one of those situations.  Never say never.  

[possibilities]

While they did resolve the mystery of who threatened Amanda, I think the fallout from the backstory will continue to be seen. 

I wonder if the actress for Oremwood's wife was not available? Leaving with a note like that seems like a really big deal. Divorcing him would make sense. But leaving the kids and not giving them any info like that? Seems out of character and way out there unless they just couldn't get the actress.

[Sarah 103]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:34 AM, marceline said:

Seriously where is Will getting these sweaters for Betty? They're adorable.

Nico is 100% the one buying the sweaters. There is absolutely no question in my mind on this. Will however, is probably the one paying for them, whether it's giving Nico the money to pay for the sweaters or paying them back after they purchase the sweaters.

 

[AnimeMania]

They should make Betty a tiny closet with a door on it.

[marceline]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:18 PM, Court said:

Does anyone know where I can find the sweatshirt Faith was wearing? It might have been the previous episode.     It said Atlanta influences everything 

I'd start with The Real Real. Faith specifically mentioned them in the previous episode when Will complimented her sweater.

https://www.therealreal.com/

 

17 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

And, I guess villain of the week called in the gun sighting to keep targeting Amanda?  

Yes. He swatted her so she would experience what he did during his drug bust. 

Edited April 6 by marceline

[AnimeMania]

57 minutes ago, marceline said:

On 4/4/2024 at 10:18 PM, Court said:

Does anyone know where I can find the sweatshirt Faith was wearing? It might have been the previous episode.     It said

 

I'd start with The Real Real. Faith specifically mentioned them in the previous episode when Will complimented her sweater.

https://www.therealreal.com/

It is here: Atlanta Influences Everything

[SnapHappy]

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Nico is 100% the one buying the sweaters. There is absolutely no question in my mind on this. Will however, is probably the one paying for them, whether it's giving Nico the money to pay for the sweaters or paying them back after they purchase the sweaters.

Loads of crafters on Etsy with amazing pet clothing.  With Betty's small size, they probably won't be getting any of the sweaters that are commercially available.  I'm betting the wardrobe folks are have a ball sourcing her wearables!!  It's a possible they have someone locally who knits for them.  Probably a week or so to do a custom knit or crochet piece.  

[possibilities]

You can buy chihuahua clothing, but I also imagine Betty has custom made wardrobe. These examples just don't look as nice as what Betty wears.

https://www.chihuahuawardrobe.com/

https://www.amazon.com/chihuahua-sweaters-dogs/s?k=chihuahua+sweaters+for+dogs

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=chihuahua+sweaters&ref=search_bar

 

[catrice2]

I love the series.  Ormewood was reconned from the books for seemingly no reason. I approve of the changes to Angie. I love the Wilbur and Amanda relationship. 

 

I really wanted to see Faith date more before she got serious with anyone and I am so far not connecting with her love interest. 

I agree with above, although I loved the original Law and Order for the same reason they stated, this show is a different type of show.  I want them to find a good balance between the case of the week and personal relationships, or at least not feel like they have to explore the life of every character.  Will and Faith are enough, with a little of Amanda. 

[peeayebee]

17 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Ormewood was reconned from the books for seemingly no reason.

How was he different in the books?

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Loads of crafters on Etsy with amazing pet clothing.  With Betty's small size, they probably won't be getting any of the sweaters that are commercially available.  I'm betting the wardrobe folks are have a ball sourcing her wearables!!  It's a possible they have someone locally who knits for them.  Probably a week or so to do a custom knit or crochet piece.  

I love the idea that in universe, Nico is buying on Etsy.