Spoiler, Speculation and Social Media

[Kid]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:45 AM, Onecattoo said:

I listened to the podcast interview with Christine, and the one thing that caught my attention was her admitting she got counseling to prep for and learn how to handle the drama from Kody around her leaving, including hypnotherapy.  Sure…she says she could yell back and counter all the crap he spews, but why bother.  Her therapist, I’ve said all along, is gold…she’s completely unhinged him, by simply not following the script his narcissism demands.  Well played Christine! 

I listened to the same podcast. And prior to making that statement, she talked about polygamy being fear based.  When she said that, prior to explicitly stating that she had therapy, I knew she had therapy.

The fact that she did not react to him was why he was in such a rage,  in my opinion.  I remember, in my 12 step programs, they always said that the opposite of love is not hate.  It is indifference. She gave him that in spades. 👏👏👏

Her comments about the kind of father that Asshat is was very enlightening as well.  Especially, the comment about her kids watching what a good father he CAN be.  Gee, wonder whose kids were getting his best.

Also interesting in this interview is that Janelle told her do not leave until she can support herself. That appears to be what Janelle is gearing up for as well.

That was a very good interview.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Kid

[Tuxcat]

1 hour ago, Kid said:

I heard the same podcast. And prior to making that statement, she talked about polygamy being fear based that came right from a therapist. When she said that, prior to explicitly stating that she had therapy, I knew she had.

The fact that she did not react to him, was why he was in such a rage,  in my opinion.  I remember in my 12 step programs they always said that the opposite of love is not hate.  It is indifference, and she gave him that in spades. 👏👏👏

Her comments about the kind of father that Asshat is was very enlightening as well.  Especially, the comment about her kids watching what a good father he CAN be.  Gee, wonder whose kids were getting his best.

That was a very good interview.

I do wish we had more insight into the real chronology though. I think Christine (and the others too) have the normal human tendency to rewrite history, but it's also so complicated by them trying to remember what was actually shown on TV too. If Christine had already rejected "the principle" as being "fear based and not good for women" in Vegas, and she had already wanted to leave Kody in Vegas, how did she end up in Flagstaff? Janelle told her to wait until she was financially secure. Did moving to Flagstaff make her more financially secure? It wasn't a good move for her kids. Aspyn desperately wanted Christine to stay near by. Does that mean the angels singink wasn't real for Christine? It's certainly why she rejected the "one house" (which Janelle seemingly heavily favored), though Christine had not yet admitted that Robyn was the favorite.

[OldWiseOne]

7 hours ago, altopower said:

Also, Kody's hair used to look normal. The ramen head look really isn't flattering in any way, shape, or form. 

Yes but the curls do a better job of disguising his ever expanding bald spot.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:07 PM, Roslyn said:

Black water is from toilets flushing and all that goes with toilets flushing and isn't microbially safe to just dump on the open ground where rain water can take it to water sources to contaminate a LOT of water. Sure, urine and poo is "organic", but it is also full of microbes that can make people very ill and that is why septic systems etc have a lot of rules and regulations.

Also, while it's possible to let gray water trickle out of a hose, if you're emptying a black tank, you can't let it trickle because the liquid will trickle but the solids will stay behind, and without liquid the solids will harden and turn into what's known as a pyramid of doom at the exit to the black tank.  So the contents of a black tank have to come out all at once, the more whoosh the better, and that will make a large and very gross mess on the ground even without contamination issues. 

But gray water can be surprisingly gross, too.  If you leave dirty dishes soaking in soapy water overnight in the sink, the water smells really bad the next morning.  That's what's going on in a gray tank, only with much more water and much longer than overnight.

If you drain gray water directly from a sink without letting it sit in or pass through a holding tank, it doesn't smell anywhere near as bad.  But in Janelle's trailer, the sink water has to go into the gray tank, and as I noted upthread, apparently her trailer is unique in that you can't dump the gray tank without opening the black tank, too, so there's not even the possibility of trickling gray water onto the ground.

[Granny58]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:51 PM, Art Of Noiz said:

Eggshell kids. I was one.

What does that mean?

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

I do wish we had more insight into the real chronology though. I think Christine (and the others too) have the normal human tendency to rewrite history, but it's also so complicated by them trying to remember what was actually shown on TV too. If Christine had already rejected "the principle" as being "fear based and not good for women" in Vegas, and she had already wanted to leave Kody in Vegas, how did she end up in Flagstaff? Janelle told her to wait until she was financially secure. Did moving to Flagstaff make her more financially secure? It wasn't a good move for her kids. Aspyn desperately wanted Christine to stay near by. Does that mean the angels singink wasn't real for Christine? It's certainly why she rejected the "one house" (which Janelle seemingly heavily favored), though Christine had not yet admitted that Robyn was the favorite.

Leaving because of Robyn is a legit reason to leave, as are all the other reasons, but it seems as time passes Christine forgets she told us Robyn was the primary reason. After saying it was Robyn, she switched to the kids and then added the principal.

I also would want to know why Christine had Truely if Kody was such an awful dad. Aspyn was already 15 and Ysabel was 7. Surely she would have known long before then, with 11 kids between the ages of of 5 - 16, what kind of dad Kody was.

Also (as mentioned) Paedon (and Garrison) had to move before their senior year. So if she was leaving Kody for the kids, that would have been the perfect time, yet she waited nearly 5 more years.

IMO, if the pandemic never happened, Christine would have never left.

With all that said - Yay, for Christine. She took a brave and scary move and left Kody. Yay, Christine!

[Tuxcat]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

IMO, if the pandemic never happened, Christine would have never left.

I do think the pandemic provided her enough separation and time to make the spilt. When she shot down his "one house dream," and wanted to move to Utah things were very bad (as they had been bad all along apparently). He was very mad and "done with his wives always complaining." But I'm not sure she would have garnered enough family support and strength to formally make the break. Covid really was used as an intentional distancing wedge - by both Christine and Kody.

[GeeGolly]

44 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I do think the pandemic provided her enough separation and time to make the spilt. When she shot down his "one house dream," and wanted to move to Utah things were very bad (as they had been bad all along apparently). He was very mad and "done with his wives always complaining." But I'm not sure she would have garnered enough family support and strength to formally make the break. Covid really was used as an intentional distancing wedge - by both Christine and Kody.

Also, without covid, Christine could continue to gaslight herself and convince herself it wasn't that bad, but once covid came, Kody basically moved in with Robyn and settled in for a long pandemic nap. No way Christine could continue to deny what she already knew - Robyn was who Kody was loyal to. Christine once again was the basement wife.

[Art Of Noiz]

6 hours ago, Granny58 said:

What does that mean?

We walked on eggshells around my mom, always careful not to invoke her rage/abuse.

[TurtlePower]

1 hour ago, Art Of Noiz said:

We walked on eggshells around my mom, always careful not to invoke her rage/abuse.

Same (with dad). You don’t learn who you really are as a person until late into adulthood because you were afraid to do things for so long. If Kody’s creating eggshell kids, I hate him even more.

I think Kody only loves the kids when they’re little and can’t/won’t challenge him. Look how he was with Truely — fake AF. Look how he’s been with Janelle’s kid. Once they get a mind of their own and stop worshipping him, he’s done. That kind of alienation hangs on. It happened to me and every visit home was a nightmare, worrying about what kind of argument he would try and start about something that happened years ago. I feel bad for some of kodys kids not having a loving father figure to support them throughout their lives. 

[GeeGolly]

57 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

Same (with dad). You don’t learn who you really are as a person until late into adulthood because you were afraid to do things for so long. If Kody’s creating eggshell kids, I hate him even more.

I think Kody only loves the kids when they’re little and can’t/won’t challenge him. Look how he was with Truely — fake AF. Look how he’s been with Janelle’s kid. Once they get a mind of their own and stop worshipping him, he’s done. That kind of alienation hangs on. It happened to me and every visit home was a nightmare, worrying about what kind of argument he would try and start about something that happened years ago. I feel bad for some of kodys kids not having a loving father figure to support them throughout their lives. 

If this is true, Janelle and Christine should have stopped having kids a lot sooner and certainly shouldn't have had Savannah and Truely. Logan, Aspyn, Leon and Maddie were about Truely's age when Savannah was born and they were teenagers when Truely was born.

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, Art Of Noiz said:

We walked on eggshells around my mom, always careful not to invoke her rage/abuse.

I understand this completely. 

[Liddy52]

7 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I understand this completely. 

As I remember it, and I could be wrong,  Christine was done having kids after her miscarriage that occurred after Ysabel.  However, I seem to remember that Kody wanted another baby and he enlisted Aspyn to help him convince Christine.  I got the feeling that  Christine gave in to please Aspyn more than Kody. I think it was in one of the early episodes.  

[GeeGolly]

49 minutes ago, Liddy52 said:

As I remember it, and I could be wrong,  Christine was done having kids after her miscarriage that occurred after Ysabel.  However, I seem to remember that Kody wanted another baby and he enlisted Aspyn to help him convince Christine.  I got the feeling that  Christine gave in to please Aspyn more than Kody. I think it was in one of the early episodes.  

Yikes! Christine had another human being because one of her kids wanted another sibling? Just when you think these Brown adults can't get any crazier - they do.

[Auntie Freeze]

I just watched the new episode. Gabe made me cry again. I hope he’s in therapy to sort through this. Kody has recklessly damaged that young man with his carelessness. 

[NoWhammies]

20 minutes ago, Auntie Freeze said:

I just watched the new episode. Gabe made me cry again. I hope he’s in therapy to sort through this. Kody has recklessly damaged that young man with his carelessness. 

Yeah - that was rough. It can take years of therapy to unravel the CPTSD from narcissistic abuse. The whole episode pissed me off - although we did get a peek inside Robyn's house....her entryway looks like hoarders live there. 

[js9548]

My tv schedule says there is an episode next week called "Which wife is next?' I thought I had read that this week was the last episode. Is this episode scheduled for 12/11 a repeat?  I want this disaster of a family to be over for the season.  Yea I know I don't have to watch but this train wreck of a show is like a real train wreck, I watch as I drive by. And hope no one else gets hurt. 

Does anyone know how many more episodes? And will they do a fake reunion again where the adults are all interviewed separately?

[dariafan]

Poor Gabe 

[ginger90]

16 minutes ago, js9548 said:

Is this episode scheduled for 12/11 a repeat?

No, it’s not a repeat.

[kassa]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:03 PM, mythoughtis said:

Kody obviously doesn’t have a clue who Janelle is and has been since probably the day he met her.  You don’t  raise six children  who turned out as well as hers who only saw their dad once or twice a week and just for supper unless you are independent.  

This reminds me of my aunt slamming her daughter in law behind her back. My cousin was an Army helicopter pilot, deployed constantly. Aunt would rail against how DIL ruled that house, how he deferred to her on everything, etc. etc. And even as a teenager I was amazed - the guy is only home a few weeks a year, OF COURSE she's going to run things and he's going to have to adjust to them when he is there.  They appeared to have a good marriage and he loved her very much, but let's face it - if she didn't run everything, there wouldn't BE anything. 

My dad didn't interact with us that much - picture the Dad on (the original) Wonder Years. We'd have dinner when he got home from work - that was pretty much the only conversation time we had. We'd watch the one tv together in the living room, color or play on Sunday mornings while he read the newspaper. He'd have us help with yard work and chores. We took a week's vacation a year and would go fishing or do some other activities together then.  To me it was normal and pretty standard for the era, and I didn't feel like I was missing anything.

But if I suddenly had seen him running around with some other woman's kids doing stuff he never did with us (or worse, stuff he previously did and no longer did), lavishing the kind of attention on them I vaguely remembered from long ago, I certainly would have had major feelings about that. 

And if the reason he gave for not coming around was covid and then I saw pictures of him unmasked at the mall with his favorite wife? It would be on.

[Libby]

I watched the new episode too. It seemed that the big, long conversation between Kody and Janelle ended with her telling Kody that she would continue to be independent, but she would try to take Kody more into consideration when she made decisions. Kody made no concessions at all.

Janelle told the audience that she was going to try to keep her marriage, but she wasn't sure that things were going to work out.

It seems that the episode is set in October 2021. I really hope that she dissolved her marriage since then. If she hasn't left yet, she's a fool.

[js9548]

How do you see episodes early? 

[Libby]

You can see the episode on Discovery+,YouTube, also I think people post the episode on Facebook.

[Sandy W]

1 hour ago, dariafan said:

Poor Gabe 

IMO, Gabe is the cream of that crop of 5 adults and 18 kids.  He has the intelligence, compassion and strength of character to perceive what life has dealt him. He will survive and thrive.

[Absolom]

Give it up, Janelle.  Kody has been Robynized.  It's absolutely and completely about Kody and Robyn is telling him he's right.  Basically telling Janelle she's going to have to become a Robyn clone and socialize solely with Robyn and Kody and forget her kids and then he has no glimmer of his own selfishness is amazing.

[Roslyn]

14 hours ago, Granny58 said:

What does that mean?

If you want to see what a "walking on egg shells" type of person is, Kody is a very obvious one.  When the wives have one on one conversations with him, their words are chosen very carefully.  He snaps to it when they say something that he doesn't want them to say, doesn't agree with (because of his very narrow mindedness) or even their chosen phrasing.  It is obvious with Janelle because she softens and backtracks and ends with "I think" or "whatever" instead of clearly stating her mind in an unemotional and direct way.

However, for a subtle "walking on egg shells" person is Meri. She is also the type to not necessarily react in real time conversations, but take great offense and then snidely put it into future conversations.

As a child growing up around "egg shell" people it can really stunt your self esteem and your ability to have confidence in relationships and communication. Yes...I also have experience in "egg shell" people. Most of the adults when I was a child in my family were all just waiting to be on the attack for some slight or offense, real or imagined.

[TurtlePower]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If this is true, Janelle and Christine should have stopped having kids a lot sooner and certainly shouldn't have had Savannah and Truely. Logan, Aspyn, Leon and Maddie were about Truely's age when Savannah was born and they were teenagers when Truely was born.

If this were true then we wouldn’t have huge families living in neglectful or abusive situations. They might not have seen it, they might have been in denial or blind to it. Many women keep having kids in varying levels of abusive relationships. I’ve seen it as a medical responder. Just because the man is a jerk to some of the kids doesn’t mean the women stop having them. Their religion pretty much makes it a requirement. 

[Roslyn]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Yikes! Christine had another human being because one of her kids wanted another sibling? Just when you think these Brown adults can't get any crazier - they do.

This also happened with Meri.  But on camera. When she was yo-yoing in the "do I have IVF treatments to have another baby" (most likely a storyline since she has since stated that it's been a decade since she and Kody had any kind of physical intimacy).

It was a couch scene with Meri, Kody and Leon (before they left for uni) and Leon was pressing very VERY hard saying Meri was "denying the whole family something by not doing everything she could" to produce more children. Granted it was when Leon was solidly trenched in the church teachings and before they went out in the world, but in my opinion it was cruel knowing that Meri desperately wanted more children, suffered a devastating miscarriage, and always had the weight of her beliefs telling her she was "less than" for not producing her own herd.

10 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

If this were true then we wouldn’t have huge families living in neglectful or abusive situations. They might not have seen it, they might have been in denial or blind to it. Many women keep having kids in varying levels of abusive relationships. I’ve seen it as a medical responder. Just because the man is a jerk to some of the kids doesn’t mean the women stop having them. Their religion pretty much makes it a requirement. 

Janelle has even done this. She has said that her father wasn't emotionally present with her as a child and so in her eyes Kody bouncing around playing with littles was a "great dad".

[Auntie Freeze]

I've long suspected that when a wife decides she's done having babies, Kody stops sleeping with them. I've no evidence, just a hunch.

[GeeGolly]

38 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

If this were true then we wouldn’t have huge families living in neglectful or abusive situations. They might not have seen it, they might have been in denial or blind to it. Many women keep having kids in varying levels of abusive relationships. I’ve seen it as a medical responder. Just because the man is a jerk to some of the kids doesn’t mean the women stop having them. Their religion pretty much makes it a requirement. 

In my experience as a therapist I find on average, big families are a thing of the past. I give Christine a pass on the first bunch because she had them in rapid succession, but she said she was unhappy in Lehi. She said Kody wouldn't even put her kids to bed. Christine was almost 40 when she had Truely. She's either exaggerating about Kody now, or she knew then he sucked as a dad.

[Granny58]

3 hours ago, kassa said:

My dad didn't interact with us that much - picture the Dad on (the original) Wonder Years. We'd have dinner when he got home from work - that was pretty much the only conversation time we had. We'd watch the one tv together in the living room, color or play on Sunday mornings while he read the newspaper. He'd have us help with yard work and chores. We took a week's vacation a year and would go fishing or do some other activities together then.  To me it was normal and pretty standard for the era, and I didn't feel like I was missing anything.

Yep, you nailed it.  Very typical for the era.  And again yes, if dad was attentive to the others, that would create so many hard feelings.  Kody is, as always, a jerk. 

1 hour ago, Sandy W said:

IMO, Gabe is the cream of that crop of 5 adults and 18 kids.  He has the intelligence, compassion and strength of character to perceive what life has dealt him. He will survive and thrive.

He really impresses me with his ability to express his feelings.  

[Granny58]

19 minutes ago, Auntie Freeze said:

I've long suspected that when a wife decides she's done having babies, Kody stops sleeping with them. I've no evidence, just a hunch.

why would he waste his godly sperm on them?/s

[altopower]

6 hours ago, Libby said:

I watched the new episode too. It seemed that the big, long conversation between Kody and Janelle ended with her telling Kody that she would continue to be independent, but she would try to take Kody more into consideration when she made decisions. Kody made no concessions at all.

Janelle told the audience that she was going to try to keep her marriage, but she wasn't sure that things were going to work out.

I think she's been trying to make things work and increasingly is seeing that they just don't. That conversation with Kody would have made me explode. But Janelle has a lot of practice with him and keeps calm and placid in dealing with him - but I don't believe for one minute that she's going to stick around. After watching Gabe, I'd grab the family and leave town in a hot minute. Kody doesn't have a clue what it means to be a sister wife or to keep the ones he has happy - and he doesn't care. And Janelle knows it.

[xwordfanatik]

9 hours ago, Auntie Freeze said:

I just watched the new episode. Gabe made me cry again. I hope he’s in therapy to sort through this. Kody has recklessly damaged that young man with his carelessness. 

I watched it, too.  I too, love Gabe.  He shares a birthday with my late mother, and I didn't know that before.  He's such a sensitive young man.  I wish him the best.  

[StatisticalOutlier]

Where I feel really sorry for Gabe is that he looks exactly like Kody.  If I were him, it would kill me to look in the mirror.

[Granny58]

11 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Where I feel really sorry for Gabe is that he looks exactly like Kody.  If I were him, it would kill me to look in the mirror.

He has amazing hair though so he's a winner there. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Granny58
Fixing auto correct 🙄

[Auntie Freeze]

It must chap Kody's ass that Gabe has a more magnificent mane than he could ever dream of though! 

Edit: jinx!

Edited December 5, 2022 by Auntie Freeze

[Soup333]

I wonder when they filmed the couch sequences in relation to the filming. Gabe said his birthday was the last time he’d spoken to his father. Wonder how long it’d been at that point. 

[Maire]

No one would treat my kids the way Kody treats Gabe and the rest 😡 they'd never get a good word from me again. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

Gabe has a magnificent mane now.  Who knows what it will be in the future. 

[toodywoody]

So on the preview, Kidney is acting like a lunatic and the other 2 just sit there. When he says he needs back up, they just sit there. Oh Mr I'm taking all the blame, well you are all the kids father and is the only dude married and at one time sleeping with 4 women,  so yeah it is all on you dude. You reap what you sow. 

Then Jenell walking away and him threatening her. I would have turned around and said you're gonna what? Please enlighten me on what you're going to do? Help me find a house? Help me build on CP? Talk to your kids? Why is it a bad idea? I'm a grown ass woman and I'm not going to sit her and take your gd shit another minute while you and your wives think up more ways to take money put of my pocket, so fuck off Kidney. I know she won't but this guy just needs to zip it.

[Teri313]

6 minutes ago, toodywoody said:

So on the preview, Kidney is acting like a lunatic and the other 2 just sit there. When he says he needs back up, they just sit there. Oh Mr I'm taking all the blame, well you are all the kids father and is the only dude married and at one time sleeping with 4 women,  so yeah it is all on you dude. You reap what you sow. 

Then Jenell walking away and him threatening her. I would have turned around and said you're gonna what? Please enlighten me on what you're going to do? Help me find a house? Help me build on CP? Talk to your kids? Why is it a bad idea? I'm a grown ass woman and I'm not going to sit her and take your gd shit another minute while you and your wives think up more ways to take money put of my pocket, so fuck off Kidney. I know she won't but this guy just needs to zip it.

I wish you were Janelle!

[Misslindsey]

23 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Gabe has a magnificent mane now.  Who knows what it will be in the future.

Kody is probably jealous of Gabe's hair.

[StatisticalOutlier]

9 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

Kody is probably jealous of Gabe's hair.

No doubt.  And, sadly, he'll no doubt be thrilled if Gabe's hairline goes the way of his. 

I hate that guy.

[BAForever]

I've watched more closely this season than in years. That, along with the obvious increased interest on this forum and other sites lead me to think that maybe TLC knows what they are doing. The show was dying, but a wife leaves and rebirth! I'd watch Janelle tell Kidney to "F off" next season.

[Soup333]

I know there are rumors regarding Janelle and if she actually left Kody. Gwen said she did but kind of backpedaled by adding “I think.” And there’s been speculation about the wedding photo and Kody not sitting with Janelle, but nothing stated outright from anyone.

 I believe that she has either left or Kody has Meri’d her (haha) for the simple reason that she’s doing everything he hates. She’s still close with Christine. She hasn’t forgone her children to spend holidays with Robyn’s family (this sounds like a nightmare btw). She spent Thanksgiving with Kody’s least favorite sons, Gabe, Garrison and Paedon. I’d be shocked if any one of them apologized to Queen Sobyn for not kissing her royal patootie. 

[TurtlePower]

5 minutes ago, BAForever said:

I've watched more closely this season than in years. That, along with the obvious increased interest on this forum and other sites lead me to think that maybe TLC knows what they are doing. The show was dying, but a wife leaves and rebirth! I'd watch Janelle tell Kidney to "F off" next season.

Same. I’ll be here as long as they keep trickling away, leaving Kody and Robyn (and probably Meri the Barnacle). Then, I hope Robyn and Kody — now forgotten — go broke and wind up living in Janelle’s trailer because that’s all they can afford. 

I feel for those kids though, especially Gabe. I know how it feels to feel unloved by a parent. 

[ginger90]

4 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

And there’s been speculation about the wedding photo and Kody not sitting with Janelle, but nothing stated outright from anyone.

Gwen said there was assigned seating and that Kody “sat with his wife”

[Soup333]

5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Gwen said there was assigned seating and that Kody “sat with his wife”

This isn’t directly stating that Janelle is not his wife anymore.

[Libby]

I saw a YouTube video (Down the Rabbit hole at Bedtime) that said that Meri and Janelle are off of the deeds of Coyote Pass. They said that only Kody and Robyn own the land now.

Does anyone know if this is true?