Season 2 - Feud: Capote vs The Swans

[babyrambo]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

In fact the whole season seems designed to show off Hollander's impression of Capote while the women agreed to sign on just to be glamour pusses all dolled up in 60s high fashion. I'm sure it was fun to do but like all Ryan Murphy productions it is heavy on style and light on substance.

Extremely light on substance, correct. I’ve been taking this show in as pure fiction with very faint connections to the actual events but the show loses me more with every episode. This was the worst one yet. The actor did a fine job but inserting Baldwin to almost legitimize what Truman did, when their actual relationship was less than warm—Capote wasn’t the biggest fan on Baldwin’s writing and they certainly weren’t close—comes off really lazy and transparent. Plus that heavy handed dialogue with its current lingo and stifled ramblings was a bit hard to buy.   

Grasping at claws to round out a story that in these writers hands, has about as much depth as a puddle.

I still don’t understand why the season didn’t focus on really building up the relationship between the Swans and Capote, maybe even going into Truman’s backstory a little (the ghost-mother scenes leave much to be desired) before delving right into the fight, but as it is, they’ve watered what was a harsh and riveting society scandal, made it almost stale and worst of all, dull. 

This show just feels really scattered and to me, is starting to bore more than is acceptable. Beautiful gowns and gorgeous sets can only do so much.  

[Enigma X]

3 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I don't know that it could go for 8 episodes.  Have they made any reference to Gore Vidal before tonight?  If not, the comment would be lost on anyone not familiar with Vidal and Capote's mutual dislike.

I think it could go pretty far. That was a long-running feud.

And, as they are doing in this series already, they can embellish some things. (I seriously do not recommend that.)

[albarino]

I am enjoying the series and everyone's comments here.  I didn't really know much about the women and the feud (well, I really didn't know anything about them) and I don't think I would have learned anything just watching the show.  I'm reading Capote's Women and googling things you all discuss to bring me up to speed.

As I said, I'm enjoying the series and learning about this particular feud. I appreciate the observation that there isn't much of a story there.  The backstory is everything. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

S02•E05 - The Secret Inner Lives of Swans

Truman eats a swan! 😱

This uplifting encounter with James Baldwin is definitely a dream. Truman is shown sleeping in the same position in his bed, wearing the same clothes.

In his dream, Truman talks about going after the men, not the women. He claims he holds back a lot when it comes to the swans, he focuses more on the men in their lives. He protects the swans by excluding their affairs from his story. But it ends up hurting the swans anyway because appearance is everything to them. This could be a subconscious way of Truman justifying his action/betrayal.

Truman also accuses the swans of subtle racism and classism. They are too privileged to realize it. He’s also aware that his whiteness has allowed him to be in their exclusive circle.

Through this episode, we can see how Truman is trying to make sense of everything that happens with his swans. He may think his action helps to immortalize them, even in a bad light.

OMG! It’s Detective Joe Hill (Blue Bloods) who kills the swan for Truman. 😱  
 

[txhorns79]

55 minutes ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

 

Truman also accuses the swans of subtle racism and classism. They are too privileged to realize it. He’s also aware that his whiteness has allowed him to be in their exclusive circle.

The guy who threw a giant party, whose biggest selling point was how exclusive it was, for celebrities and society people, really has no business accusing anyone of classism.  The only thing I really got from the episode is that Truman really hates these women. 

I also didn't like the suggestion that these women somehow brought Truman's wrath on themselves.         

Edited February 23 by txhorns79

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I also didn't like the suggestion that these women somehow brought Truman's wrath on themselves.         

Well . . . they kind of did? But we don't get a lot of information about why or how. Someone brought him into the Paley's lives on a private jet in the pilot and they just sort of yada-yada'd the rest WRT how he became so close with the rest of them. It's kind of weird what the show is choosing to focus on instead of focusing more on the backstory of how this all began. I really felt like this latest episode was kind of a waste of time story-wise when there are only eight episodes. As I posted earlier, the show just seems to want to revolve around Tom Hollander's performance and the glitz and glamour of the swans.

[Maximona]

10 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Truman is shown sleeping in the same position in his bed, wearing the same clothes.

Yep, yep, yep.  Tatty orange sweater as he gobbles the pills; tatty orange sweater when he wakes up the next morning.

I think Baldwin works as a dream guide within the context of this particular series.  I personally have absolutely no sympathy for these women either in the context of this series or from what I know about their real lives.  They were/are vapid, brittle, & self-absorbed.  Amanda Burden famously remarked that she had absolutely no relationship with her mother, Babe Paley.  

Baldwin would have despised them.  And the screenwriter is correct that Baldwin would have seen them as mere appendages to their rich, powerful, white husbands.

But would the real-life Capote have allowed himself to be rescued by the real-life Baldwin (even in a dream?) 

Probably not.  Capote disliked Baldwin's fiction. 

Capote did have a few kind things to say about Baldwin's essays, which delved into the relationships between wealth, class, race, & gender.  As a writer,  though, Capote was singularly uninterested in sociology.  Capote & Baldwin were both interested in writing about marginalized humans, but for Capote, the marginalization was always caused by some deep emotional flaw.  The dots Baldwin connected would have flown right over Capote's head.

[TV Diva Queen]

I feel its time to bail on this show - it wasn't what I expected, I was secretly hoping for more of a "day in the life" of Truman and his swans more like a real housewives series - I don't know enough about the truth to tell what's true or not in this series.  The flashbacks (that we don't know are flashbacks) or the dreams/imaginations drive me crazy.  Last night - when they cut to him awakening in the same position that he fell asleep in was the throw in the towel moment for me.  And the ending....was that necessary?  

[meep.meep]

One way this series could have worked better is showing the contrast between the Swans and the women in his life who Truman did have a good relationship with, notably Harper Lee.  I imagine her estate shot down any thought of including her as a character.

[Maximona]

9 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

the women in his life who Truman did have a good relationship with, notably Harper Lee.

Except that Capote did not have a good relationship with Harper Lee after To Kill a Mockingbird was published.

He was incredibly envious of the novel's success.

[sugarbaker design]

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its like the someone in the writers room pointed out that this whole feud seems extremally one sided, Truman betrays his friends because of his own creative slump, so they had to show us the Swans being petty racist mean girls so that Truman can be at least slightly justified in what he did.

I can't help but use Bennett Miller's 2005 Capote, with PSH, as the prequel to this show.  In Capote, TC essentially sold his soul to the devil to get the story from the killers of In Cold Blood, and killed his relationship with childhood friend Harper Lee.  After that TC was in much more than a creative slump, he was in an alcoholic, pill-ridden miasma of self-hatred that he couldn't quite escape.  While he's using the Swans for fancy vacations, expensive lunches and dinners, and extravagant gifts, he is seething with jealousy and resentment at these women who, seemingly, have had everything handed to them.  When he justifies his atrocious behavior, his selling out of his friends for money by focusing on their foibles and faults, he may be justifying his behavior to himself, but I'm not buying it.  It is fascinating to watch a once talented writer with such promise fall prey to ego, addiction, bitterness and ruthlessness.

[Spartan Girl]

47 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

While he's using the Swans for fancy vacations, expensive lunches and dinners, and extravagant gifts, he is seething with jealousy and resentment at these women who, seemingly, have had everything handed to them.  When he justifies his atrocious behavior, his selling out of his friends for money by focusing on their foibles and faults, he may be justifying his behavior to himself, but I'm not buying it. 

Ditto. Fine, they're racist snobs, but you're friends with them for obviously shallow reasons, so what does that say about you, Truman?

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

One way this series could have worked better is showing the contrast between the Swans and the women in his life who Truman did have a good relationship with, notably Harper Lee.  I imagine her estate shot down any thought of including her as a character.

There's nothing Harper Lee's estate could have done to bar the show from depicting her. If such a thing was possible, then Slim Keith's family would never have allowed her to be depicted as Bill Paley's extramarital lover.

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, meep.meep said:

One way this series could have worked better is showing the contrast between the Swans and the women in his life who Truman did have a good relationship with, notably Harper Lee.  I imagine her estate shot down any thought of including her as a character.

It would have worked better with a different showrunner. Period.

[carrps]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I get it, these shows from the house of Murphy use the past for mostly aesthetic reasons, but it still takes me out of the story. 

Thanks for for so succintly putting into words what I couldn't.

[MerBearHou]

Feud has been a failure IMO with all of the completely made up moments and relationships that are made to seem huge, but actually never even happened.  I loathed the last episode.  Loathed it.  I may not finish this series.

[MaryMitch]

I just don't have the time and energy to read all the other comments, so I apologize for any repetition... This was an amazing episode! Chris Chalk was mesmerizing. I loved that Truman ate the swan at the end.

[SunnyBeBe]

There’s enough in this to interest me, but I am easily amused. Lol.  My main interest was to see Calista Flockhart, as I was a big Ally McBeal fan back in the day AND to see this lead’s portrayal of Truman.  I can’t get Philip Seymore Hoffman’s portrayal which was superb, imo, out of my mind.  

Edited February 24 by SunnyBeBe

[iMonrey]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:06 AM, meep.meep said:

One way this series could have worked better is showing the contrast between the Swans and the women in his life who Truman did have a good relationship with, notably Harper Lee.  I imagine her estate shot down any thought of including her as a character.

On 2/23/2024 at 11:53 AM, Blakeston said:

There's nothing Harper Lee's estate could have done to bar the show from depicting her. If such a thing was possible, then Slim Keith's family would never have allowed her to be depicted as Bill Paley's extramarital lover.

Exactly. Think of the myriad biopics and movies about the British royal family, both alive and dead. If anyone had the power to pull the plug on those things they would have. Any public figure, both past and present, is fair game even in terms of historical fiction. Somewhere buried in the credits it says "based on" and gives creative license a lot of leeway in the eyes of the courts.

[carrps]

Well, that was completely rancid.

Blame everything on the women. Did any of them other than CZ come from much wealth and influence? Lee had it in her background, but it was mostly gone except for a wisp of reputation. They married the people who had the real power and influence. They only had control of a tiny sliver of society that Truman desparately wanted to be a part of. 

This show is making me less sympathetic to Capote than more.

 

[Enigma X]

This last episode portrayed Baldwin as the stereotypical Spiritual Negro that I was hoping we had moved away from. 

I don't like the  Swans because they were probably as racist and vapid as "Baldwin" said they were, but according to the writers and what I have gathered about reality, Capote wanted to live in this world with them.  And even if I think the Swans were vile, Capote presented himself as a good friend and backstabbed them. 

I actually have sympathy for Capote and the Swans because I think this world they are trying to fit in is taxing for women and homosexuals, but Capote is looking more petty than the Swans.

[Sweet-tea]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:46 AM, weaver said:

I tried but couldn't reach the end.  I thought the scene with James Baldwin was preposterous.  You know it did not happen.  Murphy or whoever wrote it just put it in so there could be a narrative of how blacks and gays were treated at the time using 2024 terminology and thinking.     

I didn't like it either and thought this episode dragged. I had trouble staying focused on it. 

[Sweet-tea]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:17 AM, Maximona said:

Except that Capote did not have a good relationship with Harper Lee after To Kill a Mockingbird was published.

He was incredibly envious of the novel's success.

There was an old rumor that he was the one who actually wrote TKAM or a good portion of it. I wonder if Truman started it. Here is an article about the rumor that says it was not true. 

Letter Puts End to Persistent 'Mockingbird' Rumor : NPR

Edited February 24 by Sweet-tea

[babyhouseman]

2 hours ago, carrps said:

Did any of them other than CZ come from much wealth and influence?

I'm reading a book on Babe and her two sisters. Their father was a doctor, and they were probably comfortable but not mega rich. Babe was married and divorced from another rich man before she married Paley. Her mother pushed her and her sisters to marry rich men. The two other sisters were married multiple times to well off men. Their husbands and ex husbands read like a who's who: FDR's son, an Astor,  a Whitney.

[GreekGeek]

On 2/22/2024 at 10:20 AM, Spartan Girl said:

The one line I did like was about how Gore Vidal was probably celebrating Truman’s downfall “voodoo doll in hand.” Now why couldn’t we have had a Feud series about those two instead?!

Or Truman Capote vs. Jacqueline Susann! The author of Serious Fiction vs. the best-selling potboiler novelist!

Are we going to get an Ann Woodward-centric flashback? I've found her the most intriguing and tragic character thus far.

Edited February 25 by GreekGeek

[Maximona]

18 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

There was an old rumor that he was the one who actually wrote TKAM or a good portion of it.

And there is a corresponding rumor that Harper Lee is the one who actually wrote In Cold Blood.  😀

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, carrps said:

This show is making me less sympathetic to Capote than more.

I don't know that we're supposed to sympathize with Capote. The fact that he tried to rationalize backstabbing his friends isn't what annoyed me about this episode. I just found the whole focus and concept self indulgent and pretentious. It was basically a one hour inner monologue of self importance. Boring. Plus never having heard of James Baldwin before I spend the entire episode wondering who the hell that guy was supposed to be.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know that we're supposed to sympathize with Capote. The fact that he tried to rationalize backstabbing his friends isn't what annoyed me about this episode. I just found the whole focus and concept self indulgent and pretentious. It was basically a one hour inner monologue of self importance. Boring. Plus never having heard of James Baldwin before I spend the entire episode wondering who the hell that guy was supposed to be.

When I was in high school. we were assigned The Grapes of Wrath. I just could not get through it. My teacher knew that I was a prolific reader and wasn't just trying to weasel out of it so he gave me Giovanni's Room to read instead. It's by James Baldwin and it opened up a whole new world of literature for me.

[txhorns79]

On 2/24/2024 at 3:41 PM, Enigma X said:

And even if I think the Swans were vile, Capote presented himself as a good friend and backstabbed them. 

Not to mention, after the article is published, Truman is presented as desperately wanting to get back in their good graces.  So how bad can these women really be? 

[Moot Smoothie]

On 2/25/2024 at 10:45 AM, Maximona said:

And there is a corresponding rumor that Harper Lee is the one who actually wrote In Cold Blood.  😀

She actually helped him a great deal with his research for the book, even going to Kansas and meeting and talking with people alongside him.  He apparently gave her little to no credit for this help which, along with his jealousy re: TKAM's success killed the friendship.  

I feel much sympathy for the abandoned child he was but the adult Truman comes across to me as too incredibly self-centered to be a good friend, especially to women.  Joanne Carson, the exception ,was still caping for him till she died and it feels like he used her and allowed her to cater to him in return for her adoration 🤷. 

Read an article recently that stated he lived at her house when in LA for years after the Swans booted him from their island, and took over 2 of the 3 bedrooms in said house.  

Really not a fan of Ryan Murphy. It takes some kind of perverse skill to turn inherently interesting source material into something so vapid and so far from actual narrative honesty.  

I'll probably finish this series now that I've stuck around this long but won't be giving any time to any of his future projects.  

[sugarbaker design]

16 hours ago, Moot Smoothie said:

Really not a fan of Ryan Murphy. It takes some kind of perverse skill to turn inherently interesting source material into something so vapid and so far from actual narrative honesty.  

Murphy didn't really have all that much to do with production.  His only title is executive producer, which I imagine is mainly symbolic.  The showrunner, and writer Jon Robin Baitz, is listed as the "developed for television by" and has written the first five episodes.  

[Sweet-tea]

23 hours ago, Moot Smoothie said:

She actually helped him a great deal with his research for the book, even going to Kansas and meeting and talking with people alongside him.  He apparently gave her little to no credit for this help which, along with his jealousy re: TKAM's success killed the friendship.   

I was surprised to learn Truman had a relationship with the murderer from In Cold Blood. Talk about compromised ethics of a writer. He also took a lot of creative license in the book, referring to it as a non-fiction novel or something like that. An oxymoron. 

[weaver]

8 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I was surprised to learn Truman had a relationship with the murderer from In Cold Blood. Talk about compromised ethics of a writer. He also took a lot of creative license in the book, referring to it as a non-fiction novel or something like that. An oxymoron. 

It was considered innovative at the time, a new genre.  

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Murphy didn't really have all that much to do with production.  His only title is executive producer, which I imagine is mainly symbolic.  The showrunner, and writer Jon Robin Baitz, is listed as the "developed for television by" and has written the first five episodes.  

And yet it seems like typical Ryan Murphy fare - all glitz and glam and style galore. With a weird, non-linear narrative and a lot of self indulgent character study amid a somewhat incoherent plot.

[Spartan Girl]

So now Truman’s turning his new protege into a clone of Babe? Gross.

[voiceover]

Not sure if I’m just worn down, but I did find tonight’s episode affecting, rather than exhausting.  When the writer in Truman comes out (like when he describes what it’s like to get old), you suddenly snap to his tremendous appeal.

OTOH, I thought of the frog and the scorpion parable (“Why did you sting me? Now we’ll both die!”  “I can’t help it.  It’s in my nature”) and how it foretells the doom of all parties involved.  I can’t choose a side here.  They’re all rather glorious and awful.

 

One of the few pleasures the series has afforded is its soundtrack, and last week I was struck by the inclusion of “Eres Tu/Touch the Wind”, because the lyrics are really the words to the Babe & Truman love story.

Laughed through the scene with his doctor, who is so far the smartest person in the room.  And WOW! that moment when Babe and CZ search in vain for the glove department, only to have the salesgirl snipe,

“You might try Lord & Taylor.”

“Oh you BITCH!”  I actually said that out loud.

Edited February 29 by voiceover

[Cheezwiz]

So we're now in Truman's Studio 54 period. I wonder if Liza or Bianca will make a surprise cameo!

I actually liked this episode - as an aging person who now feels like I can't keep up with anything, I enjoyed the scene featuring C.Z. & Slim's fruitless search for the glove department, as well as the concluding scene where Truman is doing his little write up - it was a nicely written piece.

Warren Beatty & Annette Bening's daughter (who plays Truman's young protege Kate) is really lovely.

I also loved the scene with the doctor playing Truman's plastic surgeon, as well as the banter with Richard Avedon - both of those actors were fantastic in small roles.

This series is far from perfect, but I think there's some great acting, and it's keeping me entertained.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 2/27/2024 at 7:54 PM, Sweet-tea said:

I was surprised to learn Truman had a relationship with the murderer from In Cold Blood. Talk about compromised ethics of a writer. He also took a lot of creative license in the book, referring to it as a non-fiction novel or something like that. An oxymoron. 

Did you see the movie Copote?  It’s a very intense and detailed portrayal of the man that featured many of his relationships.  Hoffman won an Oscar for his portrayal.

[seacliffsal]

I really enjoyed the scenes about the changing times (hat store closing, no more glove department, the datedness of how Truman styled Kate, etc.).  This is one thing I enjoy about period shows-how things have changed while at the same time people and their behaviors/actions don't change.  

I really think that had the show developed the friendships before they fell apart I would be more interested/sympathetic to some of the characters.  As it is, I really only care about Babe of the swans as her story has been better developed than those of the others IMO.  

Also sad how people become so desperate to try to turn back time and regain their youth and all that is associated with it.  At least the plastic surgeon understands/sees Truman.  Jack may actually be the most sympathetic character.

[tennisgurl]

The acting really is carrying this show so hard, it pulls me in even when most other aspects are all style and no substance. I actually did like this one pretty well, it actually made me feel for both Truman and the Swans. It must be awful to feel like the society you once ruled is going away and is being replaced by something you don't understand, it really is too bad what went down between them all, they could have probably really helped each other. I think that the show is tryin to deconstruct the stereotypical relationship between (usually) wealthy women and gay men, how it can become a symbiotic relationship but can also become very sour, if the women treats their gay best friends as more of an accessory than a person or if the gay best friend becomes resentful of their gal pals, but I'm not sure the show is really getting there. I think that this could have been explored a lot better if they had focused more on Truman's friendships with the Swans before he wrote the article, if we had spent a few episodes established their personalities and relationships with each other and Truman, and then had the article come out halfway through and deal with the fall out. Instead we just get a LOT of talking about this theme instead of showing it. 

Truman is such a selfish pain in the ass so often you almost forget what a great writers and observer he was, there is a reason he was/is such a big deal in literary circles and why he was so beloved by the elite. His musing on aging and feeling like you aren't part of the zeitgeist anymore was really affecting, and unlike a lot of dialogue on this show when hey try to make a point it sounded natural, in a Truman kind of way. 

I have not been a fan of the constant jumping around in the timeline, but I do like when period pieces like this allow enough time to pass that you can see the way style and society changes along with the characters. Truman and the Swans spent all episode being hit by how the society from their heyday is passing them by, hat stories are closing, gloves aren't being sold, Truman's attempt at turning Kate into Babe 2.0 just nothing but snark, its always so interesting how much people will hold onto the past. 

Kate is really lovely, she especially looked great with her hair down in a more natural 70s sort of style. 

Edited February 29 by tennisgurl

[iMonrey]

53 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I think that this could have been explored a lot better if they had focused more on Truman's friendships with the Swans before he wrote the article, if we had spent a few episodes established their personalities and relationships with each other and Truman, and then had the article come out halfway through and deal with the fall out. Instead we just get a LOT of talking about this theme instead of showing it. 

This is it, exactly. 

At first I was really impressed with the Capote impression Hollander is doing but now it's starting to feel cloying and overly indulgent. It feels like one long, long Emmy reel for the actor. The last two episodes barely had "the swans" in them. 

The series would have been better served if they had started earlier and done a better job introducing these women and explaining how they became such close friends with Capote. Instead it feels like we got a cursory intro and then jumped right into Capote wallowing in misery episode after episode. There's only so much of that you can take.

This really isn't about "the feud" so much as it is just a biography of Capote. It's very one-sided, especially these last couple of episodes.

[Snazzy Daisy]

S02•E06 - Hats, Gloves and Effete Homosexuals

“Movement is youth!”

This episode highlights the struggles to keep up with time and changing trends. Truman and his swans are getting older and out of style. Their strong reactions to the closing of their favorite hat shop and gloves department are the proof of their superficial, vapid lives.

In a makeover, Truman turns Kerry O’Shea into a matronly-looking Kate Harrington because he misses Babe so much.

C.Z. is a caring friend. She should tell Truman to stop being a “court jester singing for his supper” on talk shows. Having a persona, slurring his words on TV, that’s not a career. 

Overall, this is a fairly dull episode for me. Truman’s rendezvous with handyman Rick is purely a filler and it gets draggy. 😴 

2 more episodes to go and I need more swans‼️

[Atlanta]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did you see the movie Copote?  It’s a very intense and detailed portrayal of the man that featured many of his relationships.  Hoffman won an Oscar for his portrayal.

The movie "Infamous" is amazing. We see Harper and Truman in Kansas.

[Pi237]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The series would have been better served if they had started earlier and done a better job introducing these women and explaining how they became such close friends with Capote. Instead it feels like we got a cursory intro and then jumped right into Capote wallowing in misery episode after episode. There's only so much of that you can take.

 

This. Enough of Truman making snide comments, getting drunk, promising not to, doing a small nice thing, endlessly whining about losing his place with the swans, then getting drunk again. I’ve lost all interest in him. I find the women fascinating. Give them a spin off. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Pi237 said:

I’ve lost all interest in him. I find the women fascinating. Give them a spin off. 

Really? I'm just surprised because it doesn't seem like they're any less repetitious than he is. They just don't seem to even have to interact with the outside world, so when they're faced with it changing they're sort of mildly bemused (no gloves? no gardening hats?) and then go back to talking about how everyone's fascinated with them. Only CZ seemed to risk putting herself out into the world or even looking at it. It didn't feel like it was about youth so much because they don't seem like they were ever young.

I liked this episode more than most, though--probably because I even forgot about Truman's whole affair with the air conditioner guy. I just did like all the little vignettes about them growing old, and Truman talking with his other friends. Honestly, it seems like the people who stayed with him--CZ and the two men--are more interesting than the women anyway. 

Maybe because in his scenes with those guys I could feel a past. They seemed like old friends who were honest with him and cared about him without revolving their lives around him. 

Edited March 1 by sistermagpie

[Pi237]

True, as they're presented, the women seem one dimensional, but I'm fascinated by how they interact with one another. They all have skeletons, yet seem to live in a protected bubble within the group. Yet, they're all pretty critical of each other, and in Lee's case, often vicious.  I guess I'm just more interested in their back stories than more of Truman's whining and misery. 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Pi237 said:

This. Enough of Truman making snide comments, getting drunk, promising not to, doing a small nice thing, endlessly whining about losing his place with the swans, then getting drunk again.

I agree.  Having Truman cycle through the same behaviors in each episode is tiresome.  It feels like the only person Truman is really feuding with is himself. 

 

1 hour ago, Pi237 said:

True, as they're presented, the women seem one dimensional, but I'm fascinated by how they interact with one another. They all have skeletons, yet seem to live in a protected bubble within the group. Yet, they're all pretty critical of each other, and in Lee's case, often vicious.  I guess I'm just more interested in their back stories than more of Truman's whining and misery. 

It would be nice to know how it is these women are even friends.  They don't seem to have much in common, except Truman, and being in society is not enough to sustain the kind of relationship these women are depicted as having.

I would say the best part of the episode was the shop girl at Bonwit Teller being snotty to Babe and CZ about wanting to buy gloves.   

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, Atlanta said:

The movie "Infamous" is amazing. We see Harper and Truman in Kansas.

Capote and Infamous both cover the research and writing of In Cold Blood, with slightly different takes using different source material.  Infamous is based on the book of the same name by George Plimpton, and is the more gossipy version.  I like them both.

[TakomaSnark]

Lord & Taylor (still in business) got the last laugh (Bonwit Teller going out in bankruptcy in 2000).

Quote

I was surprised to learn Truman had a relationship with the murderer from In Cold Blood. Talk about compromised ethics of a writer.

As Janet Malcom wrote in The Journalist And The Murderer - in regard to Joe McGinniss, author of Fatal Vision about the murderer Jeffrey MacDonald:

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Every journalist who is not too stupid or full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible. He is a kind of confidence man, preying on people's vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse.

To be honest, Malcolm nailed way back in 1990 what this series was trying to express (most explicitly through Fake James Baldwin last week). 

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At first I was really impressed with the Capote impression Hollander is doing but now it's starting to feel cloying and overly indulgent. It feels like one long, long Emmy reel for the actor. The last two episodes barely had "the swans" in them. 

The series would have been better served if they had started earlier and done a better job introducing these women and explaining how they became such close friends with Capote. Instead it feels like we got a cursory intro and then jumped right into Capote wallowing in misery episode after episode. There's only so much of that you can take.

 

Agree, I'm just irritated with what seems like an extended SNL characterization of Capote by this point. I was guffawing at the (again, completely fictional) seduction and subsequent relationship with the hunky AC guy (played by Vito Schnabel, son of Julian).

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True, as they're presented, the women seem one dimensional, but I'm fascinated by how they interact with one another. They all have skeletons, yet seem to live in a protected bubble within the group. Yet, they're all pretty critical of each other, and in Lee's case, often vicious.  I guess I'm just more interested in their back stories than more of Truman's whining and misery. 

The failure of the series to do any kind of world building for these women - independently, as high society ladies and becoming intimate friends of Capote - is just plain old storytelling malpractice. 

Edited March 1 by TakomaSnark

[MerBearHou]

What might have been.... I was so looking forward to this series and it could have been great with this cast.  Take us into the rarefied worlds of Babe, Slim, CZ, Lee, and their homes and marriages and friendships and then how Truman came to befriend each one and their experiences together and then the betrayal.  It would have had so much more impact and emotional power and would have been more truthful.  Instead we got this meandering backwards-told tale with a great deal of made-up filler when you just KNOW there was plenty in their lives and Truman's relationships with them that this made-up stuff was completely unnecessary and to me, such a waste of the viewer's time.  Agreed with getting bored by the Hollander portrayal but then I think Truman would have been super tiresome to me in no time flat.  It boggles me that he had such a hold on these women.