S06.E04: Aftermath

[iMonrey]

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh I KNOW that “Ghost” Diana was a figment of Charles/Elizabeth’s imagination. But I still thought it was cheesy and I still thought that whole sequence would’ve been better served by flashbacks instead.

It also felt like a gimmicky way for the show to pay the actors for one more episode.

[Absolom]

Talking to the dead is maybe not a common TV or movie "trick" but it isn't rare either.  Last night I was watching a different TV series and there was the lead's dead daughter showing up and conversing with him.  It was done very similarly to The Crown so nothing was invented for this series, but a known story device was chosen.  I know I've seen it in other shows, too.  At least in The Crown they didn't drag it out with several conversations.  

[Drumpf1737]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:49 PM, iMonrey said:

To be fair, it seemed to me that Diana's brother should have been the one to go to Paris to retrieve her body, not her ex-husband. I get that she's the mother of his children

She's not just the mother of his children, she's the mother of the future king of England. Mou-Mou thought he'd have a relationship with the royals BECAUSE the mother of the future king of England and his son died together. He feels about the monarchy exactly the way a colonizer would want the colonized to feel. He aspired to their class, and their way of living, they in turn, shunned him for his lofty ambitions (uppity/upstart) and he was grateful they cast a glance his way. 

When Diana says it's easier with her gone ...where does Camilla fit in at any official ceremony if the mother of the future king is present? It's a wild conundrum for the monarchy. 

I didn't like ghost-Diana. I think flashbacks would have been better and less creepy. I wonder if the episodes' equal weighting of the reaction to Dodi's death and reaction to Diana's in the episode is a nod to the way he was excluded from most of the media coverage at the time.

This was a technically exceptional episode of TV unfortunately the material is just too well-troded over.

[dubbel zout]

16 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I may be wrong, but my impression was that while he was not a great husband, Charles was a fairly decent parent to his kids.  

Tina Brown quotes Diana telling someone that Charles was a very good father.

[Jodithgrace]

I was interested to see the reaction to Dodi’s death, since in the US, he was barely a blip on the radar. I mean, we don’t even have Harrods as a reference, so it was mostly, “Dodi who?” I suppose the photos of Diana and Dodi on the yacht made it to our tabloids, but I don’t read them and so was largely ignorant of the whole affair.

I was not a fan of the ghosts, especially since as manifestations of the recipients’ thoughts, they don’t really reflect what the “ghost” would really say. For example, when ghost Diana tells Charles how much she loved him, would Diana really have said that, or was that Charles’s ego speaking? 
 

I also disliked the whole (totally fictional) kerfuffle over William going missing. Totally unnecessary.  

[MJ Frog]

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

I was not a fan of the ghosts, especially since as manifestations of the recipients’ thoughts, they don’t really reflect what the “ghost” would really say. For example, when ghost Diana tells Charles how much she loved him, would Diana really have said that, or was that Charles’s ego speaking? 

I think it works either way. The show gave us plenty of reasons to think Diana still loved Charles, and I think Charles might credibly believe this. And, while the ghosts are supposed to be in the minds of the those who see them, I believe we are also meant to think to think of them as fairly accurate representatives of who they really were. We are meant to take what they're saying as largely true, rather than only as something filtered through the living person's perception of them.

Edited November 19, 2023 by MJ Frog

[GHScorpiosRule]

This was hard to watch. Especially seeing the real life footage intercut. I suppose I should be glad that they didn’t have the Queen and both William and Harry greeting the mourners.

Add me to the list of those that didn’t care for the ghosts. Ridiculous. This type of thing hasn’t been part of this series and I don’t see why Morgan felt it needed to be included.

Watching this brought it all back and it was like a gut punch and I’m sad over the loss of Diana all over again.

On a purely shallow note-actor who’s playing William? His hair is ALL WRONG. It needs to be thicker and wavier on top. For a show that got Diana SO RIGHT, and Queen Elizabeth II during the Foy years, I’m shaking my head.

I’m glad we have a break until the last half.

[Fool to cry]

I swear though, there are people online that think any depiction of Charles and co at Balmoral that's not them popping champagne and laughing "Our plan worked!" is somehow Royal propaganda!

[Spartan Girl]

11 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

I swear though, there are people online that think any depiction of Charles and co at Balmoral that's not them popping champagne and laughing "Our plan worked!" is somehow Royal propaganda!

Yeah, I roll my eyes at that stuff too. Again, while I do think that Charles got a very generous portrayal here, the conspiracy theory that he or anyone else in the BRF was somehow responsible for her death is just ridiculous.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let’s please stick to the episode here, thank you!

[TimWil]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:08 AM, Brn2bwild said:

I'm guessing "ghost" Diana is just Charles's and QE II's mental projection, which was why there was no mention of William and Harry.  

I’m aware of that but that doesn’t strike me as a reason “the boys” weren’t mentioned.

[SnapHappy]

23 hours ago, Absolom said:

Talking to the dead is maybe not a common TV or movie "trick" but it isn't rare either.  

Fans of "Dexter" got the "treat" of watching him converse with his dead sister, Deb.  She was a pain in the ass in life AND in death!

I'm fine with it as a plot device as it has it's uses.  

I'm just glad they didn't have William & Harry converse with their mummy.  That would be OTT. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by SnapHappy

[albinerhawk]

In my mind, there is no "Team Diana" or "Team Charles". They are both essentially good people with flaws who were not suited for each other. They recognized the good in each other, but both knew that they weren't good for each other. Charles could be proud of Diana's work with landmines. They both respected and appreciated each other as co-parents. So to me it seems quite justifiable that Charles was emotional that his ex-wife had tragically died.

[qtpye]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:13 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I realize this is heavily fictionalized, but in what world would a person believe that his son marrying someone's ex-wife would make him a close friend of her former in-laws? Even if she were an average person?

It also seemed strange that when Diana "appeared" to Charles after her death, she said that everyone would be better off with her dead, and he didn't reply that the boys certainly wouldn't be. (I also thought it strange that Charles would have imagined her saying that at all, knowing how much she meant to the boys.  Did he think that she thought they would be better off without her?  He was shown craving motherly attention himself.)

I am going to guess that Mou Mou was thinking that if Diana and Dodi had children, they would be half-siblings to the royal heirs.  He thought this would be his ticket to British citizenship or perhaps something along those lines.

[sistermagpie]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:48 PM, Conotocarious said:

Mental Figment Diana and Charles broke me. I wasn’t as moved by Mental Figment Diana and Queen Elizabeth.

I saw no point to Mental figment Dodi. 

The only thing I'd imagine the Queen saying to figment Diana was, "Can I speak to a figment of my father instead, please?"

On 11/17/2023 at 1:45 PM, peridot said:

What's wrong with Philip too? He didn't want Diana to be flown home on the Royal plane.  I thought he liked her. 

I didn't understand the Queen's reluctance to addressing the public.  Even if they were divorced, she's still the mother of the future king.

It made sense to me. Throughout the show the queen's had to stick by the rules of royalty because without them, what are they? Her model as a monarch was her father, who was seeing the country bravely through a war. She was totally unsuited to this type of display. She was one of the Brits who didn't understand the behavior at all!

But still, that's her job. She was sneering at all this being a show etc., but what does she think riding around on horseback in a big hat is? 

I admit, I just much preferred the handling of this in The Queen. I can give Charles real feelings about Diana, but having him come in as the hero who's not going to let Diana down in death just seemed totally fake to me. And it totally avoided the central issue focused on in The Queen, which was Charles worried about how he was coming across.  Of course, that was fictional too, but it obviously would have been a big thing and Charles is sensitive about it.

One funny thing was when Charles was talking to Camilla I somehow didn't get they were talking on the phone. I thought they were in the same room and kept wondering who Charles was on hold with on the phone while talking to her. LOL. Of course Camilla wouldn't have been at the castle!

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I admit, I just much preferred the handling of this in The Queen. I can give Charles real feelings about Diana, but having him come in as the hero who's not going to let Diana down in death just seemed totally fake to me. And it totally avoided the central issue focused on in The Queen, which was Charles worried about how he was coming across.  Of course, that was fictional too, but it obviously would have been a big thing and Charles is sensitive about it.

My sentiments exactly. I’ve been waiting since season 4 for Charles to finally own up to his part in the whole mess and how badly he treated Diana, but for the show to basically give him Tony Blair’s role in The Queen feels so hollow.

As was his admission: “All right…I admit it, I let her down in life.”

 

[iMonrey]

On 11/19/2023 at 1:03 PM, dubbel zout said:

Tina Brown quotes Diana telling someone that Charles was a very good father.

Compared to who? Diana apparently didn't have much of a frame of reference on this. The "toffs" have a very different idea of what makes a good parent than regular people do. 

[sistermagpie]

I keep thinking of Mou-Mou's machinations, and Bond Villain definitely came to mind, but these later eps make him like a Bond Villain crossed with a 12-year-old romantic girl, because his plans make you wonder if he knows any adults.

Like the way he thinks he's helping Dodi and Diana get married by hiring a paparazzi to out them (could have so easily broken them up). Then he thinks it's a turn *on* to bring them to his weird love nest (in his mind) house and tell Diana it needs another wildly in love couple to ilve there--nudge nudge. Then he's pushing Dodi to hurry up and propose after a little over a month? Did he write this plan in a unicorn diary with a purple sparkle pen? Because this is not how any adult romance would work, especially with a woman who just left a disasterous "fairy tale" marriage. He pays no attention to Dodi who's actually able to read the room a little (like knowing Diana's just annoyed to be detoured in Paris), but then convinces him to get just as bad about misreading romantic situations. 

Then in this ep he goes even further, sending things to be put in the coffin and imagining that he's basically going to be part of the royal family now that his son died with one of their ex family members. I did like how he was angry about them acting like there was only 1 person who died in the car crash when he was acting as if there were only 2 people who died in it.

And I still didn't buy that this character would have any kind of enlightenment just because Dodi died. (And why would the Arab world consider him a hero...?)

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am going to guess that Mou Mou was thinking that if Diana and Dodi had children, they would be half-siblings to the royal heirs.  He thought this would be his ticket to British citizenship or perhaps something along those lines.

Even within the fictionalized context of the show, it would be pretty inane for him to think that the mother of the future head of the Church of England would be willing to have children who would be brought up Muslim.  That would never happen.

Edited November 22, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:58 PM, txhorns79 said:

Ghost Diana and her black sleeveless turtleneck of fashionable sadness and mourning 

I love this description.

On 11/17/2023 at 8:06 AM, TimWil said:

I think the Ghost Diana scenes are justifiably being ridiculed in some reviews. They’re awful. Not once in either “conversation” are “the boys” ever mentioned. I can only assume this was intentional on Peter Morgan’s part to avoid wallowing in sentimentality but still. I thought the Ghost Dodi scene was absolutely unnecessary, too.

I dislike the trope of having people see or converse with dead people (other than how it was used on Six Feet Under).  It's a cheap way to try to fill out a plot.  In this case, it was used to allow characters to forgive themselves at least to some extent.  Ghost Diana and Ghost Dodi fell so flat for me. 

This was the first episode that I enjoyed ED in.  I am more and more seeing that as an unpopular opinion.  Same for Dominic West.  I didn't care for this casting last season.  in this episode, looking past the dead chats, they both did really well. 

I never felt one way or another about Diana.  Until these last two episodes, this show made me actively dislike her.  Fortunately I know it's just a TV show.  🙃

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Even within the fictionalized context of the show, it would be pretty inane for him to think that the mother of the future head of the Church of England would be willing to have children who would be brought up Muslim.  That would never happen.

It feels very contrived but I do think he wanted his son to marry Diana.  I don't know what his reasoning would be beyond he thought she would be his ticket to some sort of acceptance.

Unpopular opinion...I do not like the lady playing Diana.

I feel like she is letting her resemblance to Diana do all the heavy lifting. She is like a Diana impersonator.

The lady who played young Diana does not look much like the real thing but she seems to have got the real essence of the woman that many in the world adored, rightly or wrongly.

I know I am alone in this so I'll go sit at my table for one.

[Eureka]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

It feels very contrived but I do think he wanted his son to marry Diana.  I don't know what his reasoning would be beyond he thought she would be his ticket to some sort of acceptance.

Unpopular opinion...I do not like the lady playing Diana.

I feel like she is letting her resemblance to Diana do all the heavy lifting. She is like a Diana impersonator.

The lady who played young Diana does not look much like the real thing but she seems to have got the real essence of the woman that many in the world adored, rightly or wrongly.

I know I am alone in this so I'll go sit at my table for one.

I won’t say I don’t like Debicki’s portrayal, but my son and I watch together and think Emma (Corrin? Corwin?) was better. So you’re not quite alone.

[AZChristian]

7 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I dislike the trope of having people see or converse with dead people (other than how it was used on Six Feet Under).  It's a cheap way to try to fill put a plot.  In this case, it was used to allow characters to forgive themselves at least to some extent.  Ghost Diana and Ghost Dodi fell so flat for me. 

As a fictional plot, I'm okay with occasional discussions with dead people.  The Harry Potter books and films used that trope a lot.

But I found it distasteful that they were bringing real people "back to life" to tie up loose ends.  I was offended on behalf of the royal family and the El-Fayed family.  (Not that I know any of them, but I felt that way anyway.)

[MaggieG]

I did like Elizabeth's "you heard me" to Philip when she told him they were going back to London. 

[Drumpf1737]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

it would be pretty inane for him to think that the mother of the future head of the Church of England would be willing to have children who would be brought up Muslim. 

Was the romance with the heart surgeon known about? He was Muslim and she absolutely would have had children with him. Even if it weren't, why would Dodi have thought William would be different from his father in wanting to accept all faiths? People who are discriminated against aren't always aware of the reasons why.

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Even within the fictionalized context of the show, it would be pretty inane for him to think that the mother of the future head of the Church of England would be willing to have children who would be brought up Muslim.  That would never happen.

I think Diana would have done that if she wanted. She wasn't going to follow whatever rules the royal family had. But it wouldn't have made him closer to the Crown in general, which he seemed to think it might. Of course, we have no idea how those hypothetical children would be raised, Muslim or not.

Edited November 22, 2023 by sistermagpie

[iMonrey]

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Like the way he thinks he's helping Dodi and Diana get married by hiring a paparazzi to out them (could have so easily broken them up). Then he thinks it's a turn *on* to bring them to his weird love nest (in his mind) house and tell Diana it needs another wildly in love couple to ilve there--nudge nudge. Then he's pushing Dodi to hurry up and propose after a little over a month? Did he write this plan in a unicorn diary with a purple sparkle pen? Because this is not how any adult romance would work, especially with a woman who just left a disasterous "fairy tale" marriage. He pays no attention to Dodi who's actually able to read the room a little (like knowing Diana's just annoyed to be detoured in Paris), but then convinces him to get just as bad about misreading romantic situations. 

Dodi let his father think he was successfully courting Diana. I think his father assumed Dodi could win over Diana for the same reason he won over other women - his money. I suppose he had some charm and charisma to go along with it, but Dodi could certainly offer the kind of security and luxury Diana wanted. The next best thing to being royalty is being filthy rich, which the Fayeds were. I think a lot of people, at the time, were comparing Diana and Dodi to Jackie Kennedy and Onassis. So part of this might have been Dodi's fault in leading his father to believe Diana was more interested than she actually was.

[Suzn]

12 hours ago, qtpye said:

Unpopular opinion...I do not like the lady playing Diana.

I feel like she is letting her resemblance to Diana do all the heavy lifting. She is like a Diana impersonator.

The lady who played young Diana does not look much like the real thing but she seems to have got the real essence of the woman that many in the world adored, rightly or wrongly.

I know I am alone in this so I'll go sit at my table for one.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but you are not alone.  It feels like an impersonation rather than a real portrayal of character or personality.  Physical mannerisms are exaggerated and that seems like that is all  she is doing and I never feel any emotional connection.  I'm absolutely sick of the constant lowered chin, looking up through lashes.  Diana did that but it wasn't every minute and that predominate. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

12 hours ago, qtpye said:

It feels very contrived but I do think he wanted his son to marry Diana.  I don't know what his reasoning would be beyond he thought she would be his ticket to some sort of acceptance.

Unpopular opinion...I do not like the lady playing Diana.

I feel like she is letting her resemblance to Diana do all the heavy lifting. She is like a Diana impersonator.

The lady who played young Diana does not look much like the real thing but she seems to have got the real essence of the woman that many in the world adored, rightly or wrongly.

I know I am alone in this so I'll go sit at my table for one.

I agree that ED used the resemblance to form her characterization of Diana.  She also used the downward head tilt.  That was something Diana did often when she was younger.  She was tall (although not as tall as ED) so she tended to shrink herself.  However, she did not do it constantly, nor do I remember her doing it as much as she got older.  It felt to me like ED was playing 19 year old Diana throughout most of the series. (Or what @Suzn just said above).

Dodi clearly had serious money.  He and Diana bonded on a few things.  Outside of that, he did not come off as particularly charming.  Without that charm he didn't effectively come off as a fuckboy either. I found this characterization very bland.

 

[Blakeston]

I know a lot of people are unhappy about Ghost Diana saying that things will be easier for the family with her gone.

Honestly, though, it’s the kind of dramatic, self-pitying statement I could picture Diana making off-handedly in real life. But I don’t think she, or Charles, would actually believe for a second that the boys would be better off with a dead mother.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Dodi let his father think he was successfully courting Diana. I think his father assumed Dodi could win over Diana for the same reason he won over other women - his money. I suppose he had some charm and charisma to go along with it, but Dodi could certainly offer the kind of security and luxury Diana wanted. The next best thing to being royalty is being filthy rich, which the Fayeds were. I think a lot of people, at the time, were comparing Diana and Dodi to Jackie Kennedy and Onassis. So part of this might have been Dodi's fault in leading his father to believe Diana was more interested than she actually was.

In the show Mou Mou himself destroyed any chance that Diana would have seen Dodi able to guarantee her security and privacy. Even luxury depended on his father's good will. 

Instead, Onassis who owned not only a yacht but also a private island had much better means to give luxury, security and privacy. After the murders of her husband and brother-in-law Jackie feared for her children's life. 

[Zaffy]

This season reminded me that there is a lot of fiction in this series and it is not an accurate description of the events. 
Problem is, judging from what I saw from the Diana episodes, I  now doubt most of the previous stuff we watched, even the very early.

So, this whole first half of the season felt really flat to me. And boring..
I was an adult when Diana died and I remember very well the global shock (or hysteria as some put it).  
I am afraid the show failed to make me feel a single thing. 
Very weak writing and direction.
The whole idea about MM's shenanigans to pair Dodi and Diana was "meh".
And to be honest I did get some racist vibes from all this. 
But the biggest problem was the lack of chemistry between Dodi and Diana.
Was it the actor who played Dodi or just the writing? Maybe both? I dunno, but I could not get what Diana found on him. There was no charm at all. Nothing. Nada. 

And when you do not get any feelings/emotions from Diana's side you can't expect to get  much from the Royal Bots. I found Charles' reactions not believable at all. Maybe cause I think West is the worse Charles ever and a big miscast. 
In any case, the only time they managed to make me feel a bit emotional was when the royal secretary(?) went to announce the news and he stopped for a few seconds to compose himself. 

The whole Diana era of the show has been it's worst. 
Diana was probably the most exciting thing happened to the Royal Bots during Elizabeth's era (most exiting, not most important) but they never managed to pass this to the viewers.
I also think a big factor was the number of the episodes/seasons they had to fill. I believe just 3 seasons of the Crown in total would be just fine.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Zaffy

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Dodi let his father think he was successfully courting Diana. I think his father assumed Dodi could win over Diana for the same reason he won over other women - his money.

He sort of was successfully courting her, since they seemed to be sleeping together. But even knowing that it was silly for a grown man to think he'd help it along by hinting he'd give them a house to live in forever, making their affair front page news and pushing Dodi, the guy who's allegedly successfully courting her, to propose to her right away. Seems like the way the world saw the relationship was a lot more logical than the way he did.

I remember reading how Diana and the boys often hung out with celebrities and one reason for that was they were the best people to handle everything. For instance, when they were with the Spielbergs they could go to McDonalds etc. knowing that Spielberg was going to know how to deal with security as well as having the money to do it. If she thought she could get that from the Fayed's, Mou-Mou himself ruined that impression in this version.

 

[Mrsmaul2021]

On 11/19/2023 at 12:44 PM, Absolom said:

Talking to the dead is maybe not a common TV or movie "trick" but it isn't rare either.  Last night I was watching a different TV series and there was the lead's dead daughter showing up and conversing with him.  It was done very similarly to The Crown so nothing was invented for this series, but a known story device was chosen.  I know I've seen it in other shows, too.  At least in The Crown they didn't drag it out with several conversations.  

They did this in The Tudors. The final episode King Henry VIII was visited by his late wives. 

[iMonrey]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:02 PM, Zaffy said:

But the biggest problem was the lack of chemistry between Dodi and Diana.
Was it the actor who played Dodi or just the writing? Maybe both? I dunno, but I could not get what Diana found on him. There was no charm at all. Nothing. Nada. 

I think maybe that's the point? That there was much speculation in the media that Diana might marry Dodi, and the implications of that for the royal family. But in truth she never even entertained the notion and was just hanging out with someone who was offering a house and a yacht for a private getaway.

I think where the show really takes liberty is the behind the scenes machinations of Mohamed Al-Fayed and Dodi and their aggressive attempts to lure Diana into marriage. I honestly don't know how much of that is just a spin this series wants to put on the story.

I remember vividly when Diana died, I was up late on a Saturday night/early Sunday morning and flipped on the TV and they were talking about Diana. My first thought was that she had married that Dodi guy, because they had been all over the news and on the cover of every magazine for weeks. So the media was definitely portraying them as on their way to the altar. But I think it was more the media and less the Al-Fayeds who were pushing that story.

[Spartan Girl]

If there is one thing from the episode that I hope was true, it’s that Dodi was holding her hand when they were in the car. Her last moments were undoubtedly terrible, so whatever he was to her, I hope that she at least had that bit of comfort knowing she was with someone who cared about her.

[secnarf]

I have been trying to put into words my thoughts on this episode. I think at the end of the day, I feel ambivalent towards it. I don't think it added anything, and part of that was because so much was left unsaid - it mirrored the scene in the first season when Elizabeth was told of her father's death. I suppose that is the challenge of creating a work of fiction based on real people (who are still alive) and real events, when you can never know for sure what really happened. I don't know that there is any other tasteful way to do this, but the end result is an episode that doesn't feel like it adds anything new to all of the other works out there on this subject (both fiction and non-fiction). It also, to me, felt rushed. A lot went on between Diana's death and burial, and it felt like it just flew by and suddenly the funeral was happening and then over.

It's hard to watch an episode like this without wondering what the real-life subjects would think of it, especially William and Harry, but also Charles. It almost feels like the episode was done with this in mind and deliberately trying to not be exploitative of Diana's death. In theory, I think that is a good thing, but in practice, it has left us with an episode that I felt was fairly lukewarm. I don't know what they could have done differently, though.

I felt for William and Harry in this episode, but always wondering what "really" happened kept me from connecting too much with their fictionalized counterparts. I am definitely someone who cries easily at TV/movies, but I didn't even come close to crying watching this.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, secnarf said:

I suppose that is the challenge of creating a work of fiction based on real people (who are still alive) and real events, when you can never know for sure what really happened.

Already Aristotle said that history tells us what happened, poetry (fiction) tells what might have happpened. 

Of course one problem is that characters are based on living persons and happenings and before we watched this show, we had our own interpretations about them. 

But the second and even more important problem is artistic: is this a good story, worth many episodes? I don't think so.

The Queen told the happenings of this episode much better. And if Diana and Dodi's relationship had meant to have any general theme, Mou Mou's machinations destroyed it. 

[iMonrey]

The problem with the Charles and Diana stuff is that it's still all too recent, and about twelve bazilliion tv movies, theatrical movies and tv shows have already covered it ad nauseum. There's just nothing new to say about it.

I kind of wish this series had begun earlier, perhaps with Edward VII, and covered more of the earlier history of the 20th century before Elizabeth's reign and then moved into that and ended somewhere in the 70s. Once it gets into the more modern era it feels too tabloid-y. 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The problem with the Charles and Diana stuff is that it's still all too recent, and about twelve bazilliion tv movies, theatrical movies and tv shows have already covered it ad nauseum. There's just nothing new to say about it.

I kind of wish this series had begun earlier, perhaps with Edward VII, and covered more of the earlier history of the 20th century before Elizabeth's reign and then moved into that and ended somewhere in the 70s. Once it gets into the more modern era it feels too tabloid-y. 

I have seen a series about Edward VII. Only interesting royal happenings in 30ies (Abdication and George VI's stammering) have been described.

First and second seasons were good because they were about Elizabeth's inner way to the Queen's role and its influence on her marriage as well as the politics of the age (both Churchill, Eden and Macmillan were interesting).

[Roseanna]

“They’re not crying for her. They’re crying for you” was a silly line.

A far better explanation is that when people died for Diana's death, they had a chance to cry for all their past sorrows and/or it made clear how fragile life is and became afraid that the same would suddenly happen to themselves or their loved ones.      

 

[secnarf]

I don't think the line was entirely inaccurate, but I don't think it's entirely accurate either. A lot of people were crying for Diana because even though they didn't know her in person, they felt like they knew her and they loved her, and that was probably the bulk of the people lining the funeral route. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that the vast majority of people there - and even those who maybe weren't as fond of Diana - would feel awful for W&H, and that the sight of them walking behind her coffin would bring some people to tears.

 

[jschoolgirl]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:02 PM, Zaffy said:

In any case, the only time they managed to make me feel a bit emotional was when the royal secretary(?) went to announce the news and he stopped for a few seconds to compose himself. 

Diana was also his sister-in-law. He is married to her sister Jane.

[Sweet-tea]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:44 AM, Absolom said:

Talking to the dead is maybe not a common TV or movie "trick" but it isn't rare either.  Last night I was watching a different TV series and there was the lead's dead daughter showing up and conversing with him.  It was done very similarly to The Crown so nothing was invented for this series, but a known story device was chosen.  I know I've seen it in other shows, too.  At least in The Crown they didn't drag it out with several conversations.  

I've seen it done many times on TV and in movies. To me, it's a trope and it weakened this episode. 

I haven't been a fan of the casting of Dominick West. He doesn't embody Charles the way some of the other actors do their characters. However, he was superb in this episode, especially in the scene where he views Diana's body. He had little to work with as it was a mostly a tight shot of his face. His expression said it all. He brought me to tears. Bravo! 

[sistermagpie]

22 hours ago, Roseanna said:

“They’re not crying for her. They’re crying for you” was a silly line.

 

Totally agree. They were crying for her and what she meant to them/what her death sparked in them about themselves. The general attitude about the boys, as I remember it, was just more protective and respectful of them as children and her children. They were adamant that the press should leave them alone and sad in a general way that they were kids who'd lost their mother, but they weren't the focus of the outpouring of grief at all. And I feel like William would have scoffed at the suggestion they were.

[turbogirlnyc]

Sorry but the scenes of Charles weeping? I lol'd. He treated her like garbage when she was alive. I don't care what the state paid BBC claims, I don't buy it for a second. 

Why was Charles allowed to throw a party for Camilla and Diana not allowed to see another man, like Dodi? The royals are hypocrites. Including the Queen. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Totally agree. They were crying for her and what she meant to them/what her death sparked in them about themselves. The general attitude about the boys, as I remember it, was just more protective and respectful of them as children and her children. They were adamant that the press should leave them alone and sad in a general way that they were kids who'd lost their mother, but they weren't the focus of the outpouring of grief at all. And I feel like William would have scoffed at the suggestion they were.

There was also an opportunity here, although not appropriate to discuss while they were walking behind the casket, to talk to the boys about their role in the culture and how attached people can become to or how they can feel they well know public figures.  It seemed the writers felt they needed a key statement in that scene rather than allowing the visuals alone to speak.

[Zaffy]

On 11/24/2023 at 5:04 PM, iMonrey said:

I think maybe that's the point? That there was much speculation in the media that Diana might marry Dodi, and the implications of that for the royal family.

Still, I remember them in real life (from pics and vids) and they seemed to have more chemistry. I dunno if they were going to get married (and didn't care, lol) but they did look like a believable couple and Dodie definitely looked more interesting.
In the series it makes you wonder why non earth she is with him, and no, the shelter  he provided was not enough. So if the creators chose to show us a very uninteresting, weak, whining  Dodi to prove a point, well I find this as a big mistake. 
On the other hand, it did fit their narrative that the Fayeds were creepy and thirsty for Royal recognition and  I still think the creators were a tad racists against them.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Zaffy

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, Zaffy said:

Still, I remember them in real life (from pics and vids) and they seemed to have more chemistry. I dunno if they were going to get married (and didn't care, lol) but they did look like a believable couple and Dodie definitely looked more interesting.
In the series it makes you wonder why non earth she is with him, and no, the shelter  he provided was not enough. So if the creators chose to show us a very uninteresting, weak, winning  Dodi to prove a point, well I find this as a big mistake. 
On the other hand, it did fit their narrative that the Fayeds were creepy and thirsty for Royal recognition and  I still think the creators were a tad racists against them.

I think the weak willed Dodi was cast as a contrast to the handsome charismatic Prince Charles.

The actor who plays Prince Charles has such a beautiful voice.

I could listen to him speak all day.

[mytmo]

When this took place, I had just buried my mother 2 months prior.  I was 28 then and I give much respect to her young sons to have to follow the hearse when I could not even look when my mother was loaded into one.  The ghosts visits are a cheap way to try to tie up loose ends.  I would've given anything for that opportunity, but IRL that does not happen.