S04.E07: An Olive Branch with Thorns

[ZettaK]

17 hours ago, dancingdreamer said:

Mary seems quite different  when she's with her son, who imho is quite bizarre,  or, he could just hate being on camera. My sil thinks he's on the spectrum, I don't know enough to say..  Goodness  Monica,  you make me think Angie is just fine. I loved seeing all the greek food, it looked delicious.  We never see enough of other cultures. 

Heather needs to lay off Jacks mission,  although,   if it was just her and Lisa talking,  something  may come of it. 

I don't  like Monica's  mother, I've said that before.  I think  perhaps  she wasn't a mother to young Monica growing up, but she wants to be mom now. The previews  look good, I need this after NY

This is so much better than NY. I dare say that OC which just ended was better than NY.

[bosawks]

All I got from the Justin/Whitney scene was how pleased with herself Whitney looked for remembering all of her lines.

[JenE4]

It seems that Monica’s mother is playing the role of house-husband within the show. I’m curious whether mom is always around this much or it’s just to have a “partner” for filming. If they are always this involved in each other’s lives, I’d say Stop, Drop, and Roll your way out of this dumpster fire of a dysfunctional relationship! Monica is perpetually 12 around her mother, and they just needle the hell out of each other. The way Monica carries on about how her mother was never there for her as a kid, I don’t think this is the relationship she was hoping for. Set the boundaries for you to choose to distance yourself now.

Monica admitted that she did not hear of he rumor directly from Meredith. The mean streets of Salt Lake City have been abuzz long before she ever met Meredith. Even during the crying scene with her husband, they were saying they’ve heard these rumors for years just because he’s a hairdresser. Monica is solely to blame for putting this on camera. Moniica apparently learned it from her mother to get all up in the business of other people to act like you’re “helping” them but really are just getting some face time as a “good person” who is “exposing the bad behavior of another person” to get more attention and accolades. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

[SemiCharmedLife]

I tried to look up if it was tradition to give 9 lemons for Greek Orthodox Easter, but this article explains that Heather was channeling Shannon Beador as her inspiration.  The article has some good photos of Angie's party, including one of her dad dancing, which was one of my favorite moments from the party.

https://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-salt-lake-city/style-living/heather-gay-brought-nine-lemons-to-angie

[goofygirl]

13 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I know she's in her own very special and unique Mary bubble/closet and probably misses a ton of things in her day-to-day life, but how would she "notice" that they're married -- other than rings (I didn't look to see if he had one -- and hahahaha, she'd probably harshly judge the quality of the rings!) or maybe mail that indicates it?

Ugh, I was OK with Monica at first too -- she seemed OK! But yeesh. That said, her mom is a disloyal piece of garbage. If you can't take your kid's side, maybe express that privately and not at a big party and especially not in front of a bunch of other  adversarial mean girls competing for the spotlight (a description that seems to apply to Monica's mom as well). 

 

 

THIS!!! 1000x THIS!!  Monica AND her Mom both acted more childishly than the children at that party.  Which looked lovely, BTW.  

How two grown-ass women can stroll in and just show their asses in front of a bunch of Easter party people is just... UGH!

Mary's son is married for a year and MARY DIDN'T KNOW??? WTAF?? Weirdo.

[ZettaK]

6 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I tried to look up if it was tradition to give 9 lemons for Greek Orthodox Easter, but this article explains that Heather was channeling Shannon Beador as her inspiration.  The article has some good photos of Angie's party, including one of her dad dancing, which was one of my favorite moments from the party.

https://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-salt-lake-city/style-living/heather-gay-brought-nine-lemons-to-angie

The 9 Lemons (in a bowl) is not a Greek Easter (or Greek) tradition. It's feng sui, and it cleanses negative energy, and brings good luck (among other things). I immediately thought of Shannon Beador, and Yolanda Hadid. It's possible Heather brought them because she was visiting Angie's house for the first time. Angie said she and her husband built the house recently.

Lemons are a staple in Greek cuisine.

The bunny cake was cute.

Edited October 19, 2023 by ZettaK

[Chatty Cake]

Monica and her mom are duking it out for camera time. I think Monica’s mom wants her to do well as a housewife and that’s why she started laughing. She was breaking character and Monica turned it into something else. Whatever the case, it was Monica and not Meredith who brought the rumor up on camera. Monica also says it in a gross way. “Her husband f#cks other men” that makes it sound more shocking. Angie should have invited Meredith, she could have told the Monica’s  YOU CAN LEAVE.

[wallies]

Whitney also brought the rumors to Angie, so why's she getting a pass and not Monica? I can understand Monica's outrage when Angie said you could have taken me aside and told me what people were saying - that's exactly what Monica did, in fact, do. And then her Mom comes and tries to prevent her from legitimately defending herself. Monica literally gets bullied into a corner. What else would a normal person do but quietly leave at that point? 

Were the adults throwing dollar bills at the dancing children and having them drink from shot glasses? Please set me straight if this is some kind of Greek tradition.

"LD"? Seriously Linda?

Edited October 19, 2023 by wallies

[bosawks]

Seems like the two newbies are cannibalizing each other for air time.

And for some reason with these two knuckleheads I'm kind of here for it. 

Bon Appétit! 

[ZettaK]

3 hours ago, wallies said:

Were the adults throwing dollar bills at the dancing children and having them drink from shot glasses? Please set me straight if this is some kind of Greek tradition.

It's not a Greek tradition. Angie thought it was cute/cool. She is an idiot.

Edited October 19, 2023 by ZettaK

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

the Monica’s

OMG, I just laughed/snorted.

[ZettaK]

I consider Monica, Whitney, and Meredith responsible for discussing the rumor. Meredith mentioned first on tv there was a rumor (in Palm Springs), Whitney said she discussed it again at the airport (did she elaborate about the rumor?), and I don't doubt she thought one (or more) of the other thirsty HWs would make it a story line, and she was right. Whitney and Monica described the rumor explicitly on tv. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by ZettaK

[TattleTeeny]

I don't know if they were rehearsed or not, but I laughed at the Easter Bunny invitations. Whitney was a bizarre combo of ready to throw down but also calm and collected. It kind of reminded me of a scene in The Office, where Dwight is aggressively demonstrating his karate (or whichever martial art he does) and gets too close to Pam, who quietly gives him a stern look and holds up one finger at him.

Edited October 19, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[TexasGal]

Heather's Easter Bunny invitation was hilarious, but had to be staged.  How would that bunny have gotten into her car without her knowing?

[SweetieDarling]

16 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

Heather's Easter Bunny invitation was hilarious, but had to be staged.  How would that bunny have gotten into her car without her knowing?

I'm guessing production got the keys from Heather saying they needed install the Go-Cams for filming. 

[lasu]

Monica's mother is awful.  I'm not saying Monica isn't also awful, but that shit her mom pulled was next level and at the expense of her own daughter.  My own mom wasn't the best mom (my dad was a single dad), and when she tries to parent me now, it makes me lose my shit.  I hate it, I get triggered in exactly the same way Monica did.  It's amazing how inappropriate parenting can turn someone into an inappropriate child, when the original problem is exactly being treated like a child.  But you can't decide to suddenly be a parent 20 years too late.

I hate for someone to clutch their pearls and say, "I would never talk to my mother like that."  The missing part is the million times your mother would have never ACTED like that.  And honestly, her mom LOVED it.  She got exactly what she wanted.

Monica is obviously responsible for her own behavior and her own reactions to her mother's bullshit.  But I firmly believe Monica would have handled things WAY better had her mother not been there.

[politichick]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:58 PM, Steph J said:

Monica's mom out here trying to steal her snowflake.

I want to meet this woman who saw Mary's family situation (and Mary's personality situation) and decided, "Yeah, I want to marry into that."

Word on the street is she's actually a girl.

[SemiCharmedLife]

2 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Heather's Easter Bunny invitation was hilarious, but had to be staged.  How would that bunny have gotten into her car without her knowing?

Production could have told her that they needed to tweak the cameras inside her car.

 I'm sure all Angie had to do was get the invites ready and producers set up the delivery scenarios, with the excuse of filming the ladies.  There was a similar situation on Potomac with a mime delivering the invites.

 

Edit:  OOPs, @SweetieDarling I should have read through the comments before posting! 😊

Edited October 19, 2023 by SemiCharmedLife
edit

[TheCouchPotato]

Mary has to go. She brings absolutely nothing aside from ridiculously stupid faces. Only two that are bearable, and Lisa and Heather are barely bearable.

Watched the Palm Springs dinner episode with the hubs, and he said “Why is Judge Doom (Roger Rabbit) on the show?” after watching Meredith’s eyes bug out. Hit the nail on the head for me. 

[TattleTeeny]

5 hours ago, wallies said:

Were the adults throwing dollar bills at the dancing children and having them drink from shot glasses? Please set me straight if this is some kind of Greek tradition.

I confess, my parents would never have batted an eye at this and so I am not super-bothered, yet I also do find it pretty odd. I feel like letting them have wine glasses like the grownups would somehow not be as weird, but shot glasses made even my “raised in the ‘70s” self think twice! 

[heatherchandler]

7 hours ago, wallies said:

"LD"? Seriously Linda?

That was so weird.  Just say Linda.  Whoever she was introducing herself to was like ????

She’s just like her daughter, trying wayyy too hard.

So Monica thinks she’s Kim K right?  With the wearing of the coat indoors, the monotone vocal fry, and the kid named “West.”  Also she sounds like her.  Someone probably told her she looks like her and now she is modeling herself after her.  Gross.

 

3 hours ago, politichick said:

Word on the street is she's actually a girl.

Wait what???

[pasdetrois]

4 hours ago, lasu said:

But I firmly believe Monica would have handled things WAY better had her mother not been there.

Exactly. It's why her mother is being featured so much - to get a reaction out of Monica.

[Natalie68]

7 hours ago, wallies said:

Whitney also brought the rumors to Angie, so why's she getting a pass and not Monica? I can understand Monica's outrage when Angie said you could have taken me aside and told me what people were saying - that's exactly what Monica did, in fact, do. And then her Mom comes and tries to prevent her from legitimately defending herself. Monica literally gets bullied into a corner. What else would a normal person do but quietly leave at that point? 

Were the adults throwing dollar bills at the dancing children and having them drink from shot glasses? Please set me straight if this is some kind of Greek tradition.

"LD"? Seriously Linda?

I am not in love with multi age parties offering shots of any kind.  I am also not enamored of them being a regular thing at all parties.  Aren't we supposed to be against binge drinking?  Show more of a positive role model?  I know, this IS HWs. 

[TattleTeeny]

I am not defending the shit-show that HW parties always become, both with and without kids present, and am not sure who "we" are, but I don't think having a shot is binge drinking. Lots of not-questionable people, venues, and events allow alcohol in the presence of minors (and, I swear, I'm not just saying it just because of my lax and admittedly probably irresponsible upbringing and parents, haha!). 

Edited October 19, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[Natalie68]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I am not defending the shit-show that HW parties always become, both with and without kids present, and am not sure who "we" are, but I don't think having a shot is binge drinking. Lots of not-questionable people, venues, and events allow alcohol in the presence of minors (and, I swear, I'm not just saying it just because of my lax and admittedly probably irresponsible upbringing and parents, haha!). 

Having a shot isn't binge drinking by itself.  But these ladies binge drink.  Minors and alcohol aren't the problem.  I think having a party where shots are a part of the happenings IS irresponsible.  Different strokes and all.  I too had very lax parents.  My dad had alcohol induced dementia. 

[TattleTeeny]

I'm sorry to hear that about your dad. 

I guess I just don't necessarily understand why the shot format is less responsible than any other way of serving or ingesting alcohol. It's the amount one consumes (and time it takes them to do it) that would be the issue, in my mind, at least.

Edited October 19, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[SweetieDarling]

I was more shocked that Monica's daughter knew how to  did a shot without using her hands

[rlc]

This just popped up on my FB feed and I had to share.

[Salacious Kitty]

How old is Monica's daughter? I don't think she's of age 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Salacious Kitty
Post snuck in so I needed to be more specific

[KateHearts]

22 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Moniica apparently learned it from her mother to get all up in the business of other people to act like you’re “helping” them but really are just getting some face time as a “good person” who is “exposing the bad behavior of another person” to get more attention and accolades. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Another master at this is Whitney. She says to another wife, "You're my friend so I HAVE to tell you what so-and-so said/heard"- while you can see that she is barely concealing the glee she is experiencing being the one to stir shit up.

I'm trying to figure out why Angie talks in such a stilted, odd way- as if her mouth doesn't open all the way and sounding like she is on the verge of tears most of the time.

Meredith: "I wouldn't spread rumors... although I *did* hear a bunch of stuff that I won't elaborate on. Besides, my son is gay! I'm a presenter at GLAAD!" (Mer, the rumors are more about cheating than sexual orientation. And we all noticed that, although we all certainly knew BrookS was gay long before you did, that now you have another storyline to keep yourself relevant to this show!)

A Meredith aside: I went to her store last weekend. Not much there (no M, either)- it seems like a hobby business that isn't really there to make a living for her.

I could have told you that Justin and Whitney wouldn't last. I always said (and I've seen it many times) that if someone could up and leave their family and destroy relationships for an affair, they will most likely do it again. She was the hottie he couldn't resist at work and now the fun has waned. He looks like he's smirking when he reads his lines. He grosses me out.

Monica, you are playing right into Mommy Dearest's hands. She was a shitty mom, you are suffering the hurt well into your adulthood; yet you take her bait over and over again, which gives her the ammo to call YOU an irresponsible adult. This is toxic in so many ways. Mama needs to find a way to be relevant that isn't enmeshed with her daughter's life and Monica should find someone else to help her out now that she is single and trying to navigate life after her divorce. They bring out the worst in each other. Two adult women who swear at each other and treat each other so shabbily- especially in front of young children and in public- need to go their separate ways.

[eelpout]

are we surprised Monica and her mother acted like this at the Easter party considering their behavior at the past-their-prime home the previous episode?

I was a bit shocked at the polling in the tacked-on Frat Boy episode immediately after. The majority sided with Monica??? wow. Maybe more people have sour parental dynamics issues than I imagined and blame their lives on their mothers (I know a few).

[howiveaddict]

14 hours ago, ZettaK said:

It's not a Greek tradition. Angie thought it was cute/cool. She is an idiot.

I thought she got Greek Dancing and doing shots  mixed up with going to a strip club.  

I found Angie's dad playing music and dancing to be delightful. 

Bet they were glad Mary chose  not to go to the party.  She would have acted like that one aunt who turns her nose up to everything, but you still have to sit and talk to her.

[Marley]

I feel like I’m watching a different show lol. I’m not saying Monica’s mom isn’t shitty..she prob is but in this instance she was right telling Monica to chill. Monica was being embarrassing and raising her voice. She could’ve just had a normal convo but she’s a try hard.

[Chatty Cake]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:11 AM, wallies said:

Whitney also brought the rumors to Angie, so why's she getting a pass and not Monica? 

"LD"? Seriously Linda?

Whitney acted like she didn’t know what the rumor was in order to get Meredith in trouble. When Monica told her that Angie’s husband f@cks other men, Whitney pretended to be traumatized and kept saying no no no. Honestly I can see why Justin took off his wedding ring. She’s such a shit stirrer now when there’s not much to stir. The man went back to work and she has to pout and whine about flipping bacon. 
When I saw LD I thought is she referencing Latter Day Saints.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Chatty Cake

[Chatty Cake]

6 hours ago, Marley said:

I feel like I’m watching a different show lol. I’m not saying Monica’s mom isn’t shitty..she prob is but in this instance she was right telling Monica to chill. Monica was being embarrassing and raising her voice. She could’ve just had a normal convo but she’s a try hard.

Yes, I think the mom is a bit obnoxious but is just doing what Monica wants her to do which is get Monica aka Jen Shah Jr.as much camera time as possible.

[ichbin]

18 hours ago, KateHearts said:

Monica, you are playing right into Mommy Dearest's hands. She was a shitty mom, you are suffering the hurt well into your adulthood; yet you take her bait over and over again, which gives her the ammo to call YOU an irresponsible adult. This is toxic in so many ways. Mama needs to find a way to be relevant that isn't enmeshed with her daughter's life and Monica should find someone else to help her out now that she is single and trying to navigate life after her divorce. They bring out the worst in each other. Two adult women who swear at each other and treat each other so shabbily- especially in front of young children and in public- need to go their separate ways.

Amen! Those who have been fortunate not to have close people in their lives who are toxic or narcissistic  will have a difficult time understanding this and view the scene with Monica and her mother very differently than those with more unfortunate experiences. 

 

8 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

When I saw LD I thought is she referencing Latter Day Saints.

You and me both! That fact that she is trying to make "LD" happen speaks volumes.

On 10/18/2023 at 8:25 PM, ZettaK said:

Mary seems quite different  when she's with her son, who imho is quite bizarre,  or, he could just hate being on camera. My sil thinks he's on the spectrum, I don't know enough to say.

That entire scene between Mary and her son was simply weird. Neither acted typical for their role or age in their demeanor or what was being said.

Edited October 20, 2023 by ichbin

[Ashleehilton]

On 10/18/2023 at 5:37 PM, StevieRocks said:

What are they channeling here--Morticia and Lurch?

Maybe he's in the middle of getting hair plugs and needs the cap to cover up. 

[Straycat80]

Mary’s son and his ‘wife’ have lived in her house for over a year and she didn’t know they got married? Mmmokay.

Heather and everyone else need to mind their own business about Jack going on a mission, it’s his decision right or wrong.

monica is an a-hole. And her mother is competing with her for airtime. Her mother was right about her behavior at the Greek Easter with kids present. I feel sorry for Monica’s four daughters. They’ll probably end up acting like mom and grandma which is sad. 

[ZettaK]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:31 PM, TattleTeeny said:

I confess, my parents would never have batted an eye at this and so I am not super-bothered, yet I also do find it pretty odd. I feel like letting them have wine glasses like the grownups would somehow not be as weird, but shot glasses made even my “raised in the ‘70s” self think twice! 

At least it was only water.

[ZettaK]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:10 PM, Natalie68 said:

I am not in love with multi age parties offering shots of any kind.  I am also not enamored of them being a regular thing at all parties.  Aren't we supposed to be against binge drinking?  Show more of a positive role model?  I know, this IS HWs. 

It was their actual Easter celebration, that's why the kids were participating.

On 10/19/2023 at 5:30 PM, SweetieDarling said:

I was more shocked that Monica's daughter knew how to  did a shot without using her hands

And that was the youngest kid! I wonder what she sees at home.

[ZettaK]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:28 PM, KateHearts said:

I'm trying to figure out why Angie talks in such a stilted, odd way- as if her mouth doesn't open all the way and sounding like she is on the verge of tears most of the time.

I think she is still uncomfortable being on tv.

On 10/19/2023 at 11:18 PM, howiveaddict said:

I found Angie's dad playing music and dancing to be delightful. 

I did too.

On 10/19/2023 at 11:18 PM, Marley said:

I feel like I’m watching a different show lol. I’m not saying Monica’s mom isn’t shitty..she prob is but in this instance she was right telling Monica to chill. Monica was being embarrassing and raising her voice. She could’ve just had a normal convo but she’s a try hard.

Monica's mother is not great, but Monica had a tantrum like a five year old.

[politichick]

Monica is trash. Period.

[Crazydoxielady]

The level of dysfunction with Monica and her wretched mom was awful. “LD” vying for her snowflake, flirting with the men cooing “so boys….who here’s a ball player..” purrrrr….😻 The mom seeing Monica all upset and saying “I just want to dance!” Then laughing in her face?!? The same mom who went on an expletive filled tirade after “she thought she’d hung up.”  Monica is trash, we know this. But clearly we see why after being brought up by this narcissistic beast. They need to separate forever. Bring poor Nana back to Boston LD, and get your nasty gaslighting azz off my show. 

[Starlight925]

Whenever we see someone behave the way Monica does, we say "Who hurt you?".  In this case, it's Mommie Dearest.

Mommie is a narcissistic gaslighter, who smiles sweetly for the other guests and the cameras, which infuriates Monica, who knows just how evil this woman is.  

But Mommie gathers everyone on her side, just to show how crazy Monica is, when it was Mommies decades of narcissistic cycling that caused this.

Monica needs to detach from this toxicity, but she likely needs the help, both physically and financially.  Mommie has her by the you-know-whats.

Monica helps Mommie complete her pattern by her own destructive behavior.  Bragging about an affair with your brother-in-law is not the way to win new friends, sweetie.

Monica needs a therapist.  There are specialized therapists who work specifically with daughters of narcissistic mothers.  She can email me.....ask me how I know all of this.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Starlight925

[Chatty Cake]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:42 AM, ZettaK said:

It was their actual Easter celebration, that's why the kids were participating.

And that was the youngest kid! I wonder what she sees at home.

Wonder if the kids call the brother in law Uncle Daddy?

[ladle]

I generally like Heather, and I think her criticisms of Mormonism are totally valid (re: sexism/racism/transphobia) but whyyyy on earth would Lisa ever seek her out to talk about her son's participation in an institution Heather has so thoroughly critiqued?? And still is critiquing, on the show, thus proving Lisa's point!

And I'm sorry, but "Why won't you read my book?" verges on Jill Zarin territory.

Monica is exhausting.

 

On 10/17/2023 at 9:17 PM, Pi237 said:

Mary’s son was acting like he’s 12. Their dynamic is Bizarre!

I've watched a lot of Real Housewives over the years, but that truly ranks as one of the most bizarre conversations I've ever seen on the show. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by ladle

[Baltimore Betty]

15 minutes ago, ladle said:

I've watched a lot of Real Housewives over the year, but that truly ranks as one of the most bizarre conversations I've ever seen on the show. 

Didn't we all want to yell at Mary, "Wake up bobblehead!"