S03.E08: Sitzprobe

[jenrising]

Quote

On the day of the show’s most critical rehearsal, the pressure mounts. A familiar official returns to upend the case, Loretta’s complex past threatens to upend all else and Charles must finally sing his number without losing his marbles.

Available on 9/19 on Hulu.

[Phebemarie]

Well, now we know it's not Meryl Streep.  

[kitkat343]

15 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

Well, now we know it's not Meryl Streep.  

And everyone was correct about her being Dickie's birth mother.  The question is - did Dickie actually kill his brother or was he just relieved he was dead?

Edited September 19, 2023 by kitkat343

[LadyintheLoop]

So the visiting director from New York was Dickie's father? Wonder if he really thought Loretta was any good or if he was even a director. Poor girl.

Ben was poisoned on opening night? Didn't his tox screen come up clean?

[thuganomics85]

Detective Williams!  Glad that all of the greatest hits are coming back this season.  Continue to love her annoyance over Charles and Oliver's antics, and how her love for the theater is still a thing (including being used by Charles/Oliver to their advantage.)  Hope she continues to factor in for the last few episodes.

Glad they already got the obvious reveal out of the way that Dickie is Loretta's son after-all.  I guess his father was that creepy director that promised her the world (there was clearly a massive age gap there.  Pretty sure she was underage too.  Yuck!)?  And now she is claiming to be the killer after-all, but it is obvious that it was because she found out Dickie was Mabel's main suspect and is trying to protect him.  But I'm doubting Dickie is the actual killer either.  He seemed sincerely confused about everything and it seems like he's more of a final red herring.

Right now, I'm kind of wondering if it will be Momma DeMeo instead.  I felt like there was a lot more going on with her speech to Loretta about protecting one's child besides being the catalyst to motivate Loretta to take the fall.  I'm wondering if she was trying to sabotage the play because she worried it would be Clifford's downfall or something.  Or maybe Ben did something that would blow back on Clifford?  Or maybe I'm totally off.  She just was really giving off suspicious vibes during that scene.

Have to imagine both the recorded interrogations and Howard working on that torn paper puzzle are both going to lead to finally getting to the bottom of this.

Glad the trio is back together!  Even if Oliver is still mainly in "Just trying to save his play" mode instead of wanting actual justice.  But you can just see how happy the three were when they started being on the same page again and got excited over being back on track with the case.  That chemistry, y'all.  Those three are spectacular together.

That said, Oliver... certainly is in a precarious position right now.  Doubt he's going to die, but that heart attack looked really bad.  Curious to see how this will effect things going forward. 

[shapeshifter]

Wow.😮❤️‍🩹 😯 
Meryl f’in’ Streep.

As well as all the others who brought their A games this episode, especially Martin Short.

After the writers strike is resolved, can we pretty please have a series focused on Noma Dumezweni as Maxine the critic?

So glad Detective Williams is back.

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

if it will be Momma DeMeo instead.  I felt like there was a lot more going on with her speech to Loretta about protecting one's child

Yep. It’s Donna DeMeo. (IMO)
Donna D applying lipstick in front of the restroom mirror was so suggestive of the Fucking Pig lipstick writing, that it seemed like a flashing neon sign saying “murderer.”  
💄
And then her words about caring so much for her son made me flash back to the way Ben treated her beloved son Cliff like a nobody in the first episode:

• [BEN] Ha, Donna! My beloved producer! You and your... boy.
• [CLIFF] It's Cliff.
• [BEN] I know. That's what I said.
  …and again, after the poison:
• [BEN] I'm really so sorry, Donna. And I'm so sorry, boy.
• [CLIFF] Cliff.

Maybe Donna D initially intended to poison Ben just enough to get him out of the show.

And maybe she intended to shove Ben into the elevator and not the elevator shaft?

And maybe she’s just a lipstick-red herring?

Edited September 19, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Quilt Fairy]

This is the first time that I got the feeling that there are 2 murderers - or one attempted murderer and one who actually got it done.  

[Irlandesa]

13 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

This is the first time that I got the feeling that there are 2 murderers - or one attempted murderer and one who actually got it done.  

I've certainly had that feeling too. 

I love that they're doing a musical this season.  This episode felt like pure theater and I'm here for it--the music part of the musical really added something to this.

Anyway, this isn't clever or deep but that's all I've got right now.

[the fresh maker]

Definitely thinking Donna tried to murder Ben as well, especially with the lipstick and the bathroom mirror speech. But it would also be fitting if it was actually Dickie who pushed Ben down the elevator shaft.

Besides the two murder attempts, the other big "twist" this season could be the trio proving Loretta's innocence against her wishes.

And I'm thrilled to have Williams back! I was afraid she was only going to be mentioned in passing.

Edited September 19, 2023 by the fresh maker

[phalange]

Quite an entrance for Detective Williams. She's back and she's still tired of the trio's shenanigans. That was a clever ruse Oliver and Charles pulled off, using her love of musical theater to get her out of the room so they could set up the go pro to record the interviews. Charles finally managed to get through the entire song and I loved Detective Williams dancing in her seat, really getting into it.

Loretta taking the fall for Dickie almost certainly means she isn't the killer. My guess is there are two murderers. Donna poisoned Ben before the show to protect Cliff's career, and then someone else pushed Ben down the elevator shaft. Could be Dickie, but that seems too obvious, still.

And there's the mystery of what was being shredded in the office. I'm sure Howard will come through, if only because he's motivated to be on the podcast.

Poor Oliver. The stress of the play and Loretta confessing was too much.

[cardigirl]

Oliver!! 😩

And Mabel had to tell us she's staying with Theo, why couldn't that be a scene?

Now I think that maybe Ben was talking to Cliff in his dressing room opening night, instead of cookies. 

[paigow]

5 hours ago, phalange said:

Poor Oliver. The stress of the play and Loretta confessing was too much.

and probably still eating a lot of Dimas Dips

[peeayebee]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Oliver!! 😩

I actually teared up when he started to collapse.

Quote

Now I think that maybe Ben was talking to Cliff in his dressing room opening night, instead of cookies. 

Now I'm hoping he wasn't talking to a plate of cookies because many of us here were so convinced that he was. I would love for the show to make such a sneaky red herring.

I too noticed Donna putting on that particular shade of lipstick. I thought the direction there was kind of heavy-handed, with Loretta even pressing her lips together after Donna left, like, "I hope you viewers paid attention to all the lipstick applications in this scene!"

In the previouslys was a shot of Dickie and Howard standing together, and I was struck at how much they resemble each other.

I'm glad Oliver and Charles had a (convoluted) plan for setting up the recording device because I thought Charles was acting so ridiculous with Det Williams. 

Steve Martin seems to have had a lot of super-silly comedic bits this season. I don't remember them being all that noticeable in earlier seasons, which makes me think someone thinking it would be a good move to have him do such wacky hijinks.

Is it just Loretta's quirkiness that she would have a roll of scotch tape in her purse? I know her explanation was that she's into gift wrapping, but I thought that was a huge stretch, plot wise, just to get her and Mabel talking.

I haven't heard of a sitzprobe before. That made me think of sitzmark, which is the mark you leave in the snow when you fall. Long ago I was playing a game with friends where you pick a word out of the dictionary and come up with real and fake definitions. (If I'm remembering correctly.) Everyone thought the definition of sitzmark was a joke.

[ofmd]

YAY! My favorite OMITB detective is back!

Howard is writing slash fic! Of course he would.

And Meryl hit it out of the park.

The "no distractions" singing scene with everyone checking their smartphones was funny.

And kudos to SM for that tour de force patter song.

Aside from that blatant promotion of a certain action cam brand, a strong episode. The show finally remembered it's sort-of a murder mystery...

It could still be a double twist, in that Loretta really did it. Charles and Mabel will get her off because they now know she's dickie's mother, and in a final, gripping monologue, we learn it really was her... I hope not.

Maybe it was weird producer dude, and his weird mom was covering up for him.

Or maybe it was weird mom, to protect her weird son. Maybe Ben wanted to get him fired? But he's the one with the money, so how could he?

Edited September 19, 2023 by ofmd

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

In the previouslys was a shot of Dickie and Howard standing together, and I was struck at how much they resemble each other.

And Howard's mother ordered him to give up acting . . . you don't suppose?

[archer1267]

Which of the Pickwick triplets did it?

Who of the crew would commit this crime?

Thanks, show! I have Charles' "patter" song stuck in my head now - likely for the rest of the day.

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, archer1267 said:

Which of the Pickwick triplets did it?

Who of the crew would commit this crime?

Thanks, show! I have Charles' "patter" song stuck in my head now - likely for the rest of the day.

Remember to perform omelet-making flourishes if you get stuck...

[Juneau Gal]

There’s going to be an unintentional clue in the patter song, right?! 
Must find complete lyrics. 

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

There’s going to be an unintentional clue in the patter song, right?! 
Must find complete lyrics. 

From White Room transcript:

• ♪ Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it
  ♪ ♪ Who of the crew would commit this crime?
  ♪ ♪ Might a little brat make a mommy go splat?
  ♪ ♪ It's a story pretty gory for a nursery rhyme
  ♪ ♪ Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
  ♪ ♪ Which of the spawn had the brawn to kill?
  ♪ ♪ Will a baby get tried for matricide
  ♪ ♪ cооchie cооchie coo, time for you, you, or you to admit it
  ♪ ♪ So, quick as a whip, gotta pick which Pickwick Triplet did it ♪
• ( omelet sizzling ) Joy! I did it! I did the song!

But, also, from https://genius.com/Steve-martin-amp-only-murders-in-the-building-cast-pickwick-triplets-from-the-broadway-musical-death-rattle-dazzle-lyrics:

• Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
  Who of the crew would commit this crime?
  Might a little brat make a mommy go splat?
  It’s a story pretty gory for a nursery rhyme
  
  [Verse]
  Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
  Which of the spawn had the brawn to kill?
  Will the baby get tried for matricide?
  Coochie coochie coo, time for you, you, or you to admit it
  [Outro]
  So, quick as a whip, gotta pick which Pickwick Triplet did it

[peeayebee]

Here's my transcription:

Three little babes in their bassinets
Angelic little triplets or triple threats?
They might have fooled the others
But they won’t fool me.
It’s time to give these teething, seething three
The third degree.

Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Who of the crew would commit this crime?
Might a little brat make a mommy go splat?
It’s a story pretty gory for a nursery rhyme.

Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Which of the spawn had the brawn to kill?
Will the baby get tried for matricide.
Coochie coochie coo, time for you, you, or you to admit it.
So quick as a whip gotta pick which Pickwick Triplet did it.

Penelope in pink sure is making quite a stink.
Is she trying to throw me off the scent?
Though she bats her little eyes
Is she a killer in disguise?
With a diaper full of criminal intent.

Preening Patrick is pernicious with an appetite so vicious.
He would bite the hand that feeds him with a sneer.
But could that rotten tot be behind this evil plot?
Baby-stepping towards the murderous career.

Pouty little Paco’s looking coy but he’s a bad bad boy.
Could Paco’s passion prove apocalyptic?
With his paci and his rattle 
Did this pisher go to battle
Proving he’s the perp amidst this Pickwick triptych.

In this picaresque puzzle of the Pickwick pack
Will a lighthouse shed some light 
On which kid gave ol’ mom a whack
There’s an infant to indict.
I’ll book this little crook tonight.

But… Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it
Who of the crew would commit this crime?
Which little brat made their mommy go splat
Which crib, which sib will be doing hard time?

Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Which little putz had the guts to kill?
Like a forensic pediatrician I’ll complete this inquisition
I will name the neonatal from the cradle that proved fatal.
I’ll find the perpetrator who did murder to their maker.

Or… Coochie coochie coo. 
What if none of it is true?
Has my inspection been too cursory?
Should I look outside this nursery?
What if none of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Who’d have had a menacing motive and hid it?
Who? Who? Who?
Well, I. Pick. You!

[ofmd]

Those lyrics are insane!

Other than the fact that Mommy Dearest mentioned the lighthouse in this episode, I can't find any clues.

Will a lighthouse shed some light?

ETA: @shapeshifter When our Bad Golden Girls show becomes a roaring success, I'll pitch to you a spinoff starring Det. Williams and the critic. The latter only wishes to write her scathing critiques but they keep crossing paths over crime cases and become besties solving them together, bonding over their love for the theater..

Ooh, what if the missing lipstick is in the lighthouse? No idea how that would be helpful, but still.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by ofmd

[bybrandy]

I am only slightly ashamed to admit I spent a good 47 seconds considering writing a fanfiction attempt at Howard writing Papa Smurf/Skelator fanfiction.   

Love that the crew is together again and hope Oliver's second heart attack was a panic attack.  I mean I'm sure they aren't killing him off but I don't want the show to get too heavy now that it is back to flying on all the cylinders.

I am all for Mabel rooming with Theo.  I love Theo and any excuse to see him more.   

Also love Detective Williams.  Did we learn the baby's name last season?

Edited September 19, 2023 by bybrandy

[cardigirl]

Quoting someone replying to the Vulture recap of the episode:

Quote

As to who's actually going to jail for murder, I'm increasingly leaning toward the theater critic -- since many of the people involved in this production would find that a type of metaphorical justice.

Which is a thought I had after seeing her return this episode. I can't imagine what her motive would be, but since so much of the cast does theatre, making the theatre critic a murderer would be very satisfying. LOL

I think I've accused just about everyone in the show except for the three leads. 

Really enjoyed this episode, although it felt a bit too on the nose is spots. For me, the best episode of the series will always be The Boy from 6B, because of the storyline, the acting and the way it was cut together. Brilliant. 

But I liked this episode fine. 😁 

 

[braziliangirl]

I loved everything about this episode. Please, don't make the murderer Dickie or Loretta. I love them. Actually, I like most of the cast this season. I want everyone to be happy lol. 

 

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, Charles crushed that patter song, its going to be stuck in my head all day. Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it...

Great to see Williams again, I love how many past characters are showing up this season. She's as annoyed by the trio as always and is still a musical theater lover, which proves to be an advantage as Charles and Oliver create a slightly convoluted but pretty ingenious plot to distract her with the train wreck that is Charles doing a musical. 

I'm glad that they got the "Loretta is Dickie's bio mom" reveal over quickly, and now that she's confessed that basically guarantees that its not her, unless they pull a pretty big plot twist out at the last minute. This also makes me think that its not Dickie, he really did seem confused when he was being arrested, or else Ben wasn't the only actor in the family. I like the idea of there being two killers, one who poisoned him and one who finished the job, operating separately from each other.  

The trio is finally back together, but holy shit, that cliffhanger! Oliver, no! 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Penelope in pink sure is making quite a stink.
Is she trying to throw me off the scent?
Though she bats her little eyes
Is she a killer in disguise?
With a diaper full of criminal intent.

Having a grandchild toddler nearby, I f’loved this verse with the stinky diaper prose, especially “a diaper full of criminal intent.”🤣💩

[ofmd]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Quoting someone replying to the Vulture recap of the episode:

Which is a thought I had after seeing her return this episode. I can't imagine what her motive would be, but since so much of the cast does theatre, making the theatre critic a murderer would be very satisfying. LOL

 

I'll admit I never thought of her as a suspect. Interesting idea, particularly the meta implications.

I'm still wondering why KT needed to shred those scripts two episodes ago.

[sistermagpie]

17 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

And everyone was correct about her being Dickie's birth mother.  The question is - did Dickie actually kill his brother or was he just relieved he was dead?

I figured if he said that to Loretta it meant that he didn't do it. Because why confess your motive?

I started leaning towards Cliff's mother in this ep too. 

8 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Steve Martin seems to have had a lot of super-silly comedic bits this season. I don't remember them being all that noticeable in earlier seasons, which makes me think someone thinking it would be a good move to have him do such wacky hijinks.

In the first season he had that fantastic confrontation with Jan that turned out to be intelligible, and the whole bit where he was trying to move while paralyzed by her poison. 

8 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Is it just Loretta's quirkiness that she would have a roll of scotch tape in her purse? I know her explanation was that she's into gift wrapping, but I thought that was a huge stretch, plot wise, just to get her and Mabel talking.

She's not into gift-wrapping, it's been her job for years. So it made sense to me.

7 hours ago, archer1267 said:

Which of the Pickwick triplets did it?

Who of the crew would commit this crime?

Thanks, show! I have Charles' "patter" song stuck in my head now - likely for the rest of the day.

Same.

[Snazzy Daisy]

The sleuthing trio is together again! ❤️

Charles singing the patter song without going into the White Room while Oliver sneakily planting the GoPro - anything for their podcast! 😆

Charles gives his blessing for Mabert (or is it Tobel ?). He even has a "sweet" nickname for him. Awww! 😂

She’s back y’all! Detective Williams has confirmed about the coverup of Ben’s poisoning. But who’s the culprit? Donna? Or Dickie? 

Gregg is no longer a prime suspect for Ben’s murder but shouldn’t he still be locked up for the kidnapping of Charles and Mabel?

Who is Kacey? Should we pay close attention to this name or it’s just a throwaway? 🤨

Dickie has had enough of Ben and his antics. Would he be willing to kill his adopted brother just to get rid of him?

Quote

DICKIE: “But when he was gone, for those few brief moments, I just, I felt free. I was trapped again. I couldn’t take it anymore.”

To save her son, Loretta uses her acting ability to convince the police that she’s the killer. She lets her emotion, her guilt and her motherly instinct take over. Obviously Loretta is not the killer.

Quote

LORETTA: “Theatre is all about choices and those choices change everything. A line can be delivered in a million different ways.”

So, Dickie’s bio dad is a Broadway director from NY. He looks a bit creepy. But what bothers me the most is that he looks more like Ben than Dickie.

We hear Donna throwing up and she is also wearing a wig. Is she battling cancer and undergoing a chemotherapy? Or is someone slowly poisoning her without her knowledge?

Quote

 🎶 Might a little brat make a mommy go splat? 🎶

Before the opening night, Donna possibly found out that Death Rattle was going to get a bad (initial) review from Maxine. Did she use the paper shredder in KT’s office to get rid of the write-up? Did she get rid of Ben to save her son from the embarrassment of a failed show? 🤔

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[paigow]

30 minutes ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Before the opening night, Donna possibly found out that Death Rattle was going to get a bad (initial) review from Maxine. Did she use the paper shredder in KT’s office to get rid of the write-up? Did she get rid of Ben to save her son from the embarrassment of a failed show?

Not likely. No way to prevent people reposting on Twitter / Facebook. Unless she set up a life insurance policy on Ben, Donna would not recover any costs and the show would still be a failure. 

[TheOtherOne]

For those unfamiliar with a sitzprobe, video of last year's infamous Funny Girl sitzprobe, which now always comes to mind when I hear the word. The production released footage to publicize the show, and it only raised serious doubts about Ms. Feldstein's ability to sing the score...

 

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

We hear Donna throwing up and she is also wearing a wig. Is she battling cancer and undergoing a chemotherapy? 

I forgot about this. I thought I heard her throwing up, and then I wondered if she was adjusting a wig. I just didn't put it together.

[Wicked]

I loved this episode so much, just perfect all around.The ending credits caught me off guard, an emotional punch I wasn't expecting

[LADreamr]

You've all said everything so well, all I wanted to add was how much I love the patter song, and Meryl Streep not holding anything back, in the very best way (but when does she ever?).

And I don't know what made me think of this, but if we get a season 4 (so not ready for this show to be over), could we please have Stanley Tucci?  I think he would be an amazing fit with this series.

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I haven't heard of a sitzprobe before. That made me think of sitzmark, which is the mark you leave in the snow when you fall.

I never did either. It made me think of smizmar. Then I laughed a lot. 

I certainly wasn't spoiled for the return of our favorite cop! I didn't find Charles and Oliver hovering over her to be funny; I didn't know it was a con until later. 

Kudos all around for calling Dickie's mom!

I liked all the music through all the split scenes, and the actors all shocked Charles pulled it off. That was a wordy song. 

They all really brought it for this episode. That was fantastic.

11 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Is it just Loretta's quirkiness that she would have a roll of scotch tape in her purse? I know her explanation was that she's into gift wrapping, but I thought that was a huge stretch, plot wise, just to get her and Mabel talking.

Partially plot, but I have band aids and cough drops in my satchel (I'm a man, so it's a satchel). Very handy for in-person meetings when someone can't clear their throat. 

It didn't look like the trio was actually acting in their 'reunion all-in' scene in the hallway. Gomez looked like she was genuinely laughing. 

I'm not really into solving the case, so this isn't based on anything much than reading the posts here, but what if everyone tried to kill Ben? The whole opening night was him trying not to be killed? It's ridiculous. 

[Emcber]

11 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Steve Martin seems to have had a lot of super-silly comedic bits this season. I don't remember them being all that noticeable in earlier seasons, which makes me think someone thinking it would be a good move to have him do such wacky hijinks.

 

TBH I wish they had reined the hijinks in a bit.

[secnarf]

9 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Here's my transcription:

Three little babes in their bassinets
Angelic little triplets or triple threats?
They might have fooled the others
But they won’t fool me.
It’s time to give these teething, seething three
The third degree.

Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Who of the crew would commit this crime?
Might a little brat make a mommy go splat?
It’s a story pretty gory for a nursery rhyme.

Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Which of the spawn had the brawn to kill?
Will the baby get tried for matricide.
Coochie coochie coo, time for you, you, or you to admit it.
So quick as a whip gotta pick which Pickwick Triplet did it.

Penelope in pink sure is making quite a stink.
Is she trying to throw me off the scent?
Though she bats her little eyes
Is she a killer in disguise?
With a diaper full of criminal intent.

Preening Patrick is pernicious with an appetite so vicious.
He would bite the hand that feeds him with a sneer.
But could that rotten tot be behind this evil plot?
Baby-stepping towards the murderous career.

Pouty little Paco’s looking coy but he’s a bad bad boy.
Could Paco’s passion prove apocalyptic?
With his paci and his rattle 
Did this pisher go to battle
Proving he’s the perp amidst this Pickwick triptych.

In this picaresque puzzle of the Pickwick pack
Will a lighthouse shed some light 
On which kid gave ol’ mom a whack
There’s an infant to indict.
I’ll book this little crook tonight.

But… Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it
Who of the crew would commit this crime?
Which little brat made their mommy go splat
Which crib, which sib will be doing hard time?

Which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Which little putz had the guts to kill?
Like a forensic pediatrician I’ll complete this inquisition
I will name the neonatal from the cradle that proved fatal.
I’ll find the perpetrator who did murder to their maker.

Or… Coochie coochie coo. 
What if none of it is true?
Has my inspection been too cursory?
Should I look outside this nursery?
What if none of the Pickwick Triplets did it?
Who’d have had a menacing motive and hid it?
Who? Who? Who?
Well, I. Pick. You!

If there is a clue in there, I wonder if it's in the last verse, saying that they should be looking outside of the cast/crew.

[shapeshifter]

At the end, when Loretta is being taken into custody in lieu of Dickie, to what is she referring when she declares: “I'm not gonna let another innocent man go to jail for what I did”?

 

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

We hear Donna throwing up and she is also wearing a wig. Is she battling cancer and undergoing a chemotherapy? Or is someone slowly poisoning her without her knowledge?

Donna being sick makes me wonder if Cliff is the killer, but Donna fits too.

[Souris]

11 hours ago, archer1267 said:

Which of the Pickwick triplets did it?

Who of the crew would commit this crime?

Thanks, show! I have Charles' "patter" song stuck in my head now - likely for the rest of the day.

Same here. It's been hours and it. Is. Still. Playing. Over. And. Over. In. My. Head!

[Cotypubby]

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

At the end, when Loretta is being taken into custody in lieu of Dickie, to what is she referring when she declares: “I'm not gonna let another innocent man go to jail for what I did”?

The stalker who the police originally arrested for the murder but who was released earlier in the episode. They all got the news of his release during the sitzprobe.

[sistermagpie]

49 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

You've all said everything so well, all I wanted to add was how much I love the patter song, and Meryl Streep not holding anything back, in the very best way (but when does she ever?).

 

I really think this is one of the best roles she's had. She's totally believable to me as this small, supporting role person who's important in her own way.

[kay1864]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

Remember to perform omelet-making flourishes if you get stuck...

Anyone else notice that Charles’ hand moves are back? Not as extreme as in Oliver’s apartment, but interesting that Oliver wasn’t objecting this time.

And holy crap does this musical have amazing lyrics and music!

[Snapdragon]

I'm also thinking that the producer mom is involved with one of Ben's deaths and her motive's got something to do with her son.  I'm also starting to wonder if Ben might have accidentally poisoned himself on opening night?  Perhaps he put something on some food (cookies?) to stop himself from eating it, then just gave into temptation anyway?  Or accidentally ingested the poison somehow?  

The critic being involved is an interesting theory.  Maybe Ben had paid her off for a good review, then changed his mind after almost dying and when he tried to go back on the deal, she pushed him down the elevator shaft?  

[TheOtherOne]

I hope it's not the critic. Too reminiscent of the Broadway musical Curtains, about a murder that takes place behind the scenes of a Broadway-bound musical (of a star who collapses during previews). The murderer turns out to be...the theater critic.

[Quilt Fairy]

Have we seen the scene that Dickie refers to when he's talking to Loretta by the stairs?  "When Ben and I had that big argument and Ben said I was dead to him..."  I don't remember that.  But the more I think about it, maybe that's why Ben and Loretta were fighting, she was defending Dickie.  Jeeze, maybe Loretta DID do it. 

[HelloooKitty]

Even if it was pretty obvious, I’m so happy I called it correctly that Loretta was Dickie’s mom. 
my very first guess, after episode one, was that it was the producers. I still think so, though I’m leaning towards the mom specifically. 
 

let’s say there are twin Bens. Mom producer realizes he’s gonna tank her baby’s first show. He will look ridiculous and she can’t have that. She kills Ben one. Ben two and maybe Dickie scramble to figure out what next and eventually sub Ben two. Mom producer freaks out and confronts him. He grabs for her but looses his grip and falls to his death? Or she pushes him. If she does have cancer she may figure that she will be dead before a trial can be completed. 
 

if there’s only one Ben, maybe the drug cocktail he was on somehow protected him from the first death by poisoning. 
 

ben was talking to the plate of cookies in his dressing room and he wrote the mirror message to himself. 

[Phebemarie]

On second watch and noticed something I'd overlooked.  During the conversation between Mabel and Loretta, Mabel says, "Killers sometimes insert themselves into investigations".   I thought it was a pointed comment pushing back on Loretta's nosiness...but maybe it's also foreshadowing someone that Mabel is overlooking, who also inserted himself into the investigation:  Tobert.  

[the fresh maker]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

7 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Before the opening night, Donna possibly found out that Death Rattle was going to get a bad (initial) review from Maxine. Did she use the paper shredder in KT’s office to get rid of the write-up? Did she get rid of Ben to save her son from the embarrassment of a failed show?

Not likely. No way to prevent people reposting on Twitter / Facebook. Unless she set up a life insurance policy on Ben, Donna would not recover any costs and the show would still be a failure. 

Came here to make both of these points! Donna was way more upset about Maxine being there than she was about the cops. How could someone that well connected not know Maxine was going to pan the show? She stated this episode and in an earlier one that this is Cliff's first show, and she doesn't want to ruin his career before it can begin. She could get rid of Ben, recoup some money, and save Cliff by ending the show before anyone else could see how horrible it was.

I thought I saw Donna shifting a wig too. If she's dying of cancer, she might try to do something desperate to make sure Cliff has a future after she's gone.

I watched the episode again and noticed a couple of interesting things about Loretta's confession. She says she poisoned Ben's protein drink. Williams only mentioned that he was poisoned; she didn't say how. If it wasn't the protein drink (and maybe cookies), the cops would know that. Williams was rather subdued while she was arresting Loretta, not her usual, fabulously snarky self.

And why, indeed, was Gregg released even after he kidnapped two people and tied them up?

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, the fresh maker said:

And why, indeed, was Gregg released even after he kidnapped two people and tied them up?

The same judge that released Theo after multiple counts of felony theft, kidnapping etc...

[ofmd]

By the way, was anyone able to read what was on the few scraps of paper Howard had pieced together?

On a different note... When Oliver told Loretta he loved her, she didn't say it back. Of course she had her mind on more urgent things, but I didn't really get the vibe of "oh no, if only I wasn't going to do this thing..."

Edited September 20, 2023 by ofmd