S02.E03: Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow

[starri]

Quote

 

La'an travels back in time to twenty-first-century Earth to prevent an attack which will alter Humanity's future history – and bring her face to face with her own contentious legacy.

 

[tv-talk]

Quite possibly the single worst episode of any Trek I've ever seen.  Not only was it riddled with absurdities (Kirk made $10k playing chess in the park?), but it was some kind of lame buddy-cop show half the time replete with car chase and gun violence. That's not Trek, or at least not to me it isnt.

Had already had my full of La'an and the constantly brooding, "oh the pain I've endured" narrative that the writers never stop with and now it looks like they will triple-down on that? And the Federation is about to be at war with the Zorn which surely is going to involve all her bad memories etc. Ugh does not bode well for the season, again for me at least.

That's now 2 of 3 episodes that had virtually no Pike, I hope they shelve La'an and some others for a couple weeks and get the Capt his due.

[baldryanr]

Anson Mount's kid was born at the end of 2021 and they filmed this season in the first half of 2022.  They probably decided (or were forced) to film in order and wrote out Pike accordingly. 

I suppose they now have the perfect excuse for any and all continuity errors - Temporal Wars!  Big events still have to happen when they're supposed to (i.e. the fixed points) but the details leading up to them can be scrambled.

[paigow]

Baby Hitler / Baby Thanos ... AAARRRGGH... Time cops...This show cannot be allowed to renew for Season 3... they have already run out of material... 

[baldryanr]

12 minutes ago, paigow said:

Baby Hitler / Baby Thanos ... AAARRRGGH... Time cops...This show cannot be allowed to renew for Season 3... they have already run out of material... 

Bad news for you.  That being said, think of the extra free time you'll have if you bail on the show.

[paigow]

I feel like Lt. Dan....

They gave you The Congressional Medal Of Honor????!!!!!

Edited June 29, 2023 by paigow

[DrScottie]

Did La'an convince Pelia to join the StarFleet engineering corps like Scotty helped Dr. Nichols invent transparent aluminum or Marty McFly played Johnny B. Goode to Chuck Berry's cousin? Darn you, predestination paradox. 

It looked like she left the gun in Khan's room before she left. I know he's still a kid at that point, but that just seems like a bad idea considering who he is. Maybe again she was destined to do that. 

The title is from MacBeth's soliloquy that ends with "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by DrScottie

[paigow]

The Eugenics War happened in the 20th Century. Khan cannot be a young boy in the 21st Century. 

[Ceindreadh]

3 minutes ago, paigow said:

The Eugenics War happened in the 20th Century. Khan cannot be a young boy in the 21st Century. 

They were supposed to happen in 1992, but something screwed up the timeline and the Romulan was stuck there another 30 years.  It's not unreasonable to assume that Khan's conception was delayed by time agent interference as well.

 

I would have disliked this episode less if it had been one out of twenty.  But we're only getting ten episodes and TPTB want to centre one around La'an?  Honestly, I wish I'd just fast forwarded through it and watched the 'ups and downs' on YouTube.

(I will admit that if it had been Ortegas and not La'an, I would have been so there for it)

[thuganomics85]

I'm all for getting more La'an, since she and Christina Chong are probably my favorites, but this was another weird episode for me because it feels like it's way too early to not only dive back into more time-traveling hijinks (man, has that whole concept kind of been overplayed by the sci-fi genre somehow), but bringing back a version of Kirk and creating what was suppose to feel like some kind of epic love story between them just feels odd.  It would make a little sense if the characters actually had met before in the past/their timeline and this was a continuation of it, but for them to meet, banter, start making eyes at one another, kissing and did her sobbing over losing him (or this variation of him) all in one episode just feels so rushed.  Doesn't help that Chong and Paul Wesley don't quite have enough chemistry to pull it off.  Then again, I think Wesley in general is still trying to get a handle at playing this variation of Kirk and I think the show should really focus on getting that in order before they do this.  It won't be an easy task, but I've grown to accept Ethan Peck's version of Spock, so they can do the same hopefully with Wesley's Kirk.

The concept of Khan/the Eugenic Wars dying/being removed actually causing different kind of issues for the human species and even leading them to isolating from other alien species is an intriguing one, but it probably needed a few more episodes to really reach it's potential from a storyline perspective.  Fun seeing Adelaide Kane as the Romulan assassin.

That must have been some high stakes chess games, considering the fancy hotel they were able to check into!  Of course, they probably saved money on food since Kirk probably only let them eat hotdogs...

Man, first Spock is having outbursts in the cafeteria and now he's rocking out so much in his room that he's getting noise complaints!  Get it together, man!  Such a troublemaker!

Anson Mount's son being born around filming does explain the lack of Pike so far, but I hope that is changed soon.  I am missing him.  And, in general, they need to go back to more ensemble pieces soon.  Just do some exploring, guys!

[AWhittle]

I am just surprised that we did not get a closeup of Pelia's face when La'an walked in the bridge in the restored end.

[rtms77]

I didn’t mind it too much since I too like La’an, though I wish they involve more cast in these. I don’t like the time wars stuff which ruined Enterprise. I’m hoping they stay away from that.

The chemistry between Kirk and La’an was wonky. I think the writers just said “oh hey let’s use Kirk and since he kisses and beds every woman he meets let’s do that too!” Still I can see why La’an was so upset. That she developed intense feelings for a Kirk that would cease to exist so fast tracks with her personality. She was in a desperate situation and had to resolve it, getting Kirk on her side. Glad she told him there was another version of him with a brother who was alive. Her break down at the end was sad since she has to continue keeping her feelings in check. 
This whole crew save Urhura, has massive PTSD it seems. La’an is the kind to bottle things up , go by the book and everything she reckons will work out. As we see not so. No wonder they got counselors in the future on starships. 

Adelane Kane! Loved seeing her again. So this Romulan has been there since ‘92? Like she said the whole Khan thing got delayed thanks to time travellers. Didn’t Voyager mention this when Janway and crew went back to ‘96?  La’an realizing she has to save Khan and let the evilness exist so humanity and herself continue  into the Federation was a great way to bring it all home for La’an. She realized , good or bad her line had a purpose.

😂 Kirk mistaking Toronto for New York, I see what you did there  production crew 😉

 

Heres hoping we more full cast episodes especially with Captain Pike.

Edited June 30, 2023 by rtms77

[KeithJ]

49 minutes ago, AWhittle said:

I am just surprised that we did not get a closeup of Pelia's face when La'an walked in the bridge in the restored end.

I was too.  Or at least Pelia coming to visit La’an afterwards.  Pelia should know who she is and what happened.

[marinw]

Ugh. What was that? At least it was Toronto and not San Francisco this time.

Why doesn’t La’an change her name?

I lost interest in Trek time travel back in season two of Picard.

We would all like to go back in time to change something. It could be something personal like preventing the death of someone we love. Or a major inflection point in history like 9/11 or the Coronavirus Pandemic. I’m more interested in what we do with the timeline we have. 

Pelia is starting to grow on me. In my head canan she is the same person Carol Kane played on The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Pelia is the Guinean  of SNW.
 

Edited June 30, 2023 by marinw

[jcin617]

1 hour ago, AWhittle said:

I am just surprised that we did not get a closeup of Pelia's face when La'an walked in the bridge in the restored end.

I thought I saw Pelia gave her a kind of sly smile when she saw her come on the bridge.

[jcbrown]

Table for one, I guess. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

[cdnalor]

I still think the actor playing Kirk reminds me too much of Jim Carrey to accept him in the role, especially in his reactions at the beginning of this episode.  Any moment I expect an "All righty, then!" to come out of his mouth.

They do seem to be focussing a lot on La'an with this episode and somewhat in the first one of the season.  Let's get back to the main cast ASAP.  So far, it feels like the new season hasn't really started yet.

[Guest]

My reaction to the this episode is basically the same as I had to the premiere. On its own I liked it but in the larger context of the show and franchise it was a mess. The show is going for big emotional beats with zero setup or follow through. The three episodes feel more like an anthology series than Strange New Worlds. 

[MaryMitch]

Lots of great chemistry between Christina Chong and Paul Wesley. It took a while but I see Kirk now.

[Stardancer Supreme]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Anson Mount's son being born around filming does explain the lack of Pike so far, but I hope that is changed soon.  I am missing him.  And, in general, they need to go back to more ensemble pieces soon.  Just do some exploring, guys!

 

Daughter. Her name is Clover. She is a beauty!

Time Travel Shenaniganery with La'an and James T. Kirk!  Taking it for what it was, this episode was enjoyable.  Knowing that La'an is feeling the weight of her heritage, someone at the Temporal Division decided to use her for the ultimate trip back in time.  Why a different version of Kirk?  She wouldn't have survived without his skills, honestly. He was even quicker on his feet than she was!  Plus I am bothered by the fact that she didn't even try to find out what day it was; that would be the first thing I would determine if I was dropped out of my time.  She gets points for at least knowing where they were...  Pairing her with a Kirk who had never been on Earth with no Federation, fighting the Romulans and saying the hell with the Vulcans? I liked that!

This episode was pretty much an ensemble piece with a focus on La'an.  We did see everyone on the Enterprise; we even got to see Pelia in Vermont! Then we bring La'an face to face with her ancestor. I couldn't imagine actually seeing the relative that brought so much pain and angst to a whole world later on down the road. 

There was no epic love story with Kirk. That was an attraction that will never be. She had never even met the Kirk of her timeline! I am looking forward to the resolution of her story at the end of the series since she is never mentioned again going forward.  Canon be  a bitch sometimes...

 

[dwmarch]

2 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Table for one, I guess. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

Save a chair for me, this is my favorite SNW episode so far and one of the better episodes of Star Trek that I have seen in the past several years/series.

There were two absurdities that took me out of the episode a bit. First was that bridge, the "Lake Ontario" bridge. To cross the lake and connect to the US (if the start point is somewhere near the CN Tower) yes there will be some cost overruns to put it lightly.

The other bit was with the cops letting Kirk off with a warning. Canadian cops are polite but they will absolutely tell you to fuck off if you try to interfere with them while they are doing their jobs. But I feel like The Voyage Home had some similarly silly bits so I'll call it a tribute and leave it at that.

I also thought hustling chess was a weird way to make money but again, it's a dramatic shortcut so we don't have to see them get real jobs and work for 30 years to be able to afford a parking spot in downtown Toronto. Maybe they found a wallet while they were wandering all over the place.

Canada finally gets some Star Trek love! Not only do we get the CN Tower, we get a Roots store, Canadian money (yes, it is colorful and made of polymer) and a cop holding what is clearly a Tim Horton's cup. We also get poutine although the version they were eating did not look like it had cheese curds on it. Still, this episode was so Canadian it bleeds maple syrup.

Speaking of the Roots store, they don't have a biker-style leather jacket listed currently but the leather jackets they do have right now start at $900 CAD. They would be secured to the hanger by a steel cable and the staff would have to come over and unlock them for you to try one on. You would not be able to just put one on and walk out with it. But I appreciate that SNW does not want to be the show that teaches people how to shoplift. I thought it was great that La'an brought the jacket to the future with her. Apparently they are still in style because while Pike noted she wasn't in uniform, he didn't ask La'an why she was wearing such an ancient style.

But while she did bring back her Roots haul, she also left a handgun behind in Khan's room. She sets it down, has a chat with him and leaves without picking it back up. Was that supposed to happen?

I appreciated the canon patching here, where the Romulan explains that history pushes events in particular directions. This is why SNW doesn't quite line up with TOS or even Discovery for that matter. All the temporal shenanigans across all the series have put us a few universes over from the "prime" universe if there ever was one.

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Table for one, I guess. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

 

Pulling my chair up to the table as well.

5 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Save a chair for me, this is my favorite SNW episode so far and one of the better episodes of Star Trek that I have seen in the past several years/series.

Speaking of the Roots store, they don't have a biker-style leather jacket listed currently but the leather jackets they do have right now start at $900 CAD. They would be secured to the hanger by a steel cable and the staff would have to come over and unlock them for you to try one on. You would not be able to just put one on and walk out with it. But I appreciate that SNW does not want to be the show that teaches people how to shoplift. I thought it was great that La'an brought the jacket to the future with her. Apparently they are still in style because while Pike noted she wasn't in uniform, he didn't ask La'an why she was wearing such an ancient style.

But while she did bring back her Roots haul, she also left a handgun behind in Khan's room. She sets it down, has a chat with him and leaves without picking it back up. Was that supposed to happen?

 

Thankfully, the temporal device doesn't strip you of whatever you wore or used in the other timeline. 

I'm going to pick up the book outling the Eugenics Wars, to see how close to canon they are going to be.  Perhaps Khan uses that gun to escape the laboratory he grew up in...

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Table for one, I guess. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

So did I!  Can I sit at your table?

I am grateful to be getting new Star Trek with actors and characters I really like.  This show is fun for me and I found the episode both entertaining and rather touching.

[Sandman]

3 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Table for one, I guess. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

May I join you? I brought three hotdogs. I think I liked that James Kirk was the Edith Keeler this time around. Though I kind of agree that Wesley seems still to be wrapping his head around Kirk. 

The franchise’s reliance on time travel stories is now worrisome, however. (Having “temporal mechanics” as a subject at Starfleet Academy is just silly.) 

I did enjoy recognizing the Royal Conservatory building in its cameo as the Noonien-Singh Institute.

 

[AnimeMania]

I don't like La'an. I don't like Kirk. I don't like people from the future leaving their future stuff in our trash cans. I don't like adults leaving a loaded gun in the room of a child.

I am guessing that they just left the stolen car in the middle of the street where the police stopped them. Then took several buses and a couple of taxis to Vermont.

[Meginsanity]

7 hours ago, AWhittle said:

I am just surprised that we did not get a closeup of Pelia's face when La'an walked in the bridge in the restored end.

She did say she has no memory for faces.

I really enjoyed this one except for the romance. I would have liked it better if they went through what they did and became friends, rather than sticking the romance in there.

It bugged me a little that they kept saying the Vermeer was stolen from the Louvre. It was stolen during the Isabella Stewart Gardner museum heist.

[marinw]

Sorry but Paul Wesley just isn’t Kirk to me. 

Oh Spock, you party animal! I would expect the quarters to have better soundproofing.

Edited June 30, 2023 by marinw

[marceline]

To quote the great Miles O'Brien...I hate temporal mechanics.

This episode is now on my list of worst episodes. Right down there with TNG's Code of Honor. I was constantly being pulled out of the story by the ridiculousness of it all. Kirk and La'an somehow manage to book a palatial hotel even though they have no ID or credit cards? Don't even get me started on how they were able to get across the border to Vermont mere days after a terror attack on Toronto.

I'm not even going to list any of the other stuff because I could go on forever except for one thing. I REALLY need these series to stop time traveling people into and out of car chases. The idea that Kirk could go from barely figuring out how to start the car to doing stuntman level defensive driving requires too much suspension of disbelief. We saw the same thing with Seven and Raffi in S2 Picard and they need to stop it.

I'm just going to memory hole this episode for my own sanity.

[aemom]

I had mixed feelings about this episode. When I saw time travel in the description, I actually thought that there was going to be Gorn shenanigans to explain these Gorn as opposed to TOS Gorn.

I enjoyed all the Canadian references, I liked Kirk better this time around, and I liked the idea of the story. The car chase, the hotel suite, getting over the US border - despite the border guard bribery comment - took me out of it a bit. Leaving the gun in Khan's room was just bananas to me.

I did snicker at Kirk's Noonian-Soong comment. I see what you did there show!

What I did really like about this episode is that La'an is finally able to make peace with her heritage, and we should be seeing a calmer, less angry side of her from now on.

I am really missing Pike and Una - two of these first three episodes barely had them at all. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by aemom
Typo

[Tachi Rocinante]

So many things wrong with this episode, yet I still kinda enjoyed it.  Weird.

[Orbert]

I joked to Mrs. Orbert that it seemed like a blatant attempt to get us to like "new Kirk".  And it was working!  Yeah, he still seems more like Jim Carrey trying to act like William Shatner acting like James T. Kirk (and failing, because there really isn't any Shatner in this version) but oddly, as the episode went on, I got more used to him and found myself rooting for him.

And yeah, this was obviously SNW's "City on the Edge of Forever" but different enough that I could accept it as an homage rather than a rip-off.  I'm sure others will see it differently.

The kiss?  I didn't think it was earned, but Mrs. O pointed out that this is Kirk.  He gets the girl, period.  Ah yes, that's right.  Okay, fine.

I also didn't think her breakdown at the end was really earned, but what the hell.  They'd been through a lot together the past few days, and it wasn't just that "her version of new Kirk" was gone, it was the release after all the shit she'd just been through.  So I guess that was okay, too.

Overall, I don't know if it was a truly good episode, but I enjoyed the ride.

[tv-talk]

51 minutes ago, aemom said:

What I did really like about this episode is that La'an is finally able to make peace with her heritage, and we should be seeing a calmer, less angry side of her from now on.

I took the opposite almost, I suspect the conflict with the Gorn is going to be all about her anger, knowing better than others about the enemy, deep sadness over other-Kirk's death, etc etc. The writers seem to want to play up biggest emotions possible this season and I doubt it will stop. We'll see tho!

2 minutes ago, Orbert said:

And yeah, this was obviously SNW's "City on the Edge of Forever" but different enough that I could accept it as an homage rather than a rip-off.  I'm sure others will see it differently.

Yes I got that too....with the difference being Kirk having to let Joan Collins die where as here La'an empties clip into Romulan who had previously manhandled her like she was a child. And then leaving the gun in kid Khan's room? What in the world? Was there a reason for that?

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, marceline said:

Don't even get me started on how they were able to get across the border to Vermont mere days after a terror attack on Toronto.

That did bug me, I have to say. Much more even than Kirk's ability to master the car so quickly. I took that as a nod to the Kelvin timeline, as we now have at least two versions of Kirk who love racing around in a boosted car.

I didn't mind La'an's display of grief. I think missing what might have been with Other Kirk was part of her reaction, but maybe not all of it. That whole experience seems like it would be pretty taxing.

Does it count as character growth that this Kirk never told La'an that she was a beautiful woman? That's such a big part of his shtick.

[kirinan]

11 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Save a chair for me, this is my favorite SNW episode so far and one of the better episodes of Star Trek that I have seen in the past several years/series.

But while she did bring back her Roots haul, she also left a handgun behind in Khan's room. She sets it down, has a chat with him and leaves without picking it back up. Was that supposed to happen?

Make room at the table for another one. Yeah, lots and lots of holes, but I did enjoy it. As a Detroit-area resident who has been to Windsor and Toronto many times over the years, I loved all the Canadian references. And I swear, there were times Paul Wesley's Kirk reminded me of Chris Pine's Kirk, and Chris Pine always makes me happy. 

And to the second point, about the gun, I gotta ask...Would that be Chekov's gun instead of Chekhov's gun? 😁

[AnimeMania]

And another thing, why were their uniforms so similar, if they were from completely different organizations?

[Artsda]

I enjoyed it! The mistaking Toronto for NY and all the stops they made. The mall, shoplifting, eating poutine. It was nice seeing them walk around for real not a set. 

 

[Chit Chat]

On 6/29/2023 at 5:57 AM, tv-talk said:

Not only was it riddled with absurdities (Kirk made $10k playing chess in the park?),

He would've had to ante up in order to get into the game, wouldn't he?  That was eyeroll #1 for me; the super fancy hotel room was eyeroll #2; leaving a (presumed) loaded gun next to a child was eyeroll #3.   Another boring episode except for the last 15 minutes.  YMMV. 

 

[AnimeMania]

A trail of dead bodies all leading to the open room of a child who has the the murder weapon. I am surprised the security didn't just shoot to kill on sight.

[Quark]

I liked this. I thought the actress playing La'an did a great job and it was nice seeing Paul Wesley not play a vampire.

I have to say, I admired La'ans calmness when she believed that her entire timeline had been erased.

[Charlemagne]

18 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Table for one, I guess. I actually really enjoyed this episode.

I am right there with you. This is the best way to do Star trek right now. Self-contained episodes with more spotlights on various crew members. The era of 10-hour movies has *so* worn out their welcome with me. At least, with regard to Star Trek, anyway.

[historylover820]

I didn't care much for this episode.

I liked alt-Kirk. I did. I wasn't all that woo-hoo about Paul Wesley as Kirk in the season 1 finale. And I laughed at Kirk thinking he was in New York, because Toronto doubles more for New York than it appears as itself.

So, can someone actually explain this for me? 

I know Khan is La'an direct ancestor, but he's only one of several, right? Say, La'an's dad is Khan's direct descendant, judging from her shared last name, but what about her mother? And, she's got four grandparents, only one who is Khan's direct descendant (say her dad's dad). But were her other three grandparents direct descendants?

Because, the DNA scanner, which is 21st Century technology, somehow got La'an's Khan DNA across all those generations.

Not a fan of this episode. Going back up to read other comments.

[Charlemagne]

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. This episode, this season, this show.

[marinw]

So if Kid Khan was killed would La’an cease to exist? And if she doesn’t exist how could she go back and kill Khan? 

[Prevailing Wind]

17 minutes ago, marinw said:

So if Kid Khan was killed would La’an cease to exist? And if she doesn’t exist how could she go back and kill Khan? 

This is why time travel paradoxes gave Janeway headaches.

[marinw]

I could ship La’an and M’benga if the show goes there.

Edited June 30, 2023 by marinw

[TVbitch]

...um ...uh ...er..

Glad some enjoyed it, but it was more OTT fan fiction for me, much like Episode 1. And now La'an has another rock in her box of pain.

It seems like almost everyone has time traveled or has had to fix or change the timeline and "never speak about it". It gets ruined, adjusted and tweaked so much, I'd probably just say to hell with it at some point. 😁

PS. La'an told Spock the noise complaint was "anonymous" --but I'm pretty sure it was her! 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

This is why time travel paradoxes gave Janeway headaches.

Her and me both!!  I just try to roll with it and try not to understand it.  I was still bored throughout most of the show though. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

This is why time travel paradoxes gave Janeway headaches.

1 hour ago, marinw said:

I could ship La’an and M’benga

It can never work... too many apostrophes...

[Ceindreadh]

18 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

 

This episode was pretty much an ensemble piece with a focus on La'an.  We did see everyone on the Enterprise; we even got to see Pelia in Vermont! Then we bring La'an face to face with her ancestor. I couldn't imagine actually seeing the relative that brought so much pain and angst to a whole world later on down the road. 

 

 

I think this episode was the exact opposite of an ensemble piece.

There are 8 characters listed in the credits.  This episode focused almost entirely on one.  Was there any scene that La'an did not appear in? 

Only 3 of the other characters even got lines, and the other 4 barely got reaction shots.  (Chapel wasn't even in the episode) 

It's all very well giving a character their episode in the spotlight (and I wouldn't be complaining if it was a character that I preferred), but there's only 10 episodes this season and this one feels like a waste of my time. 

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

I could ship La’an and M’benga if the show goes there.

Ship Name: LaM’ an’ benga    OR   La M’an ’benga