S05.E09: Four Minutes

[bourbon]

21 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

I never said she was unhappy. I said it was, to me, a small, shallow life. She got what she wanted, Yay her. She was always too self-absorbed to truly need others, other than "fans". To ME that is sad.

THIS. And I will also go to my grave believing that THE PALLADINOS think this is at least sort of sad. If not, we wouldn't have all the shots of her walking through her vast, empty apartment and wouldn't have to hand wave that she probably has pics of her grandkids elsewhere in her vast, empty apartment. Maybe Midge is perfectly content being where she is in life, but she certainly paid a price to get there. 

[basil]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:34 AM, Gummo said:

I found the ending heartwarming because it reminded me of something I read not long ago: how Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner got together for dinner & Jeopardy regularly before Reiner died, and how much Brooks missed those evenings.

I like to think Susie and Midge's Jeopardy-watching phone calls were based on Mel and Carl.

Of course they were based on that. The Palladinos are not known for their original thoughts.

SPOILERS!!! Of course:

Pallandinos explain TMMM ending

[fishcakes]

19 hours ago, kwnyc said:

He also had a brief marriage to Carrie Fisher.

They even used a photo of Paul and Carrie to photoshop Midge into.

 

The big spangly belt and collar make me think I've seen the outfit that Midge is wearing before, but I can't place where it's from.

Edited May 29, 2023 by fishcakes

[FaginZorro]

The Dinah character is worth her weight in gold, getting Midge's fancy performing dress for free from Bergdorf in exchange for a simple on-stage mention. This is an important element in stage presence about which Susie, for all of her bluster, smarts and savvy, would never have had a clue.

[Suzn]

3 hours ago, bourbon said:

THIS. And I will also go to my grave believing that THE PALLADINOS think this is at least sort of sad. If not, we wouldn't have all the shots of her walking through her vast, empty apartment and wouldn't have to hand wave that she probably has pics of her grandkids elsewhere in her vast, empty apartment. Maybe Midge is perfectly content being where she is in life, but she certainly paid a price to get there. 

I think Midge's life looks empty, lonely and sad to most people and goes against the expectations of happy ever after, surrounded by family. I don't think that was ever important to her; her children were never her highest priority - not even high on the list.  Men were never the priority either.  Joel was always a part of her life, but not central;  Lenny was important, but never was going to be part of her day to day life.  So Susie was the only one she had a deep connection to and that survived.

The most important thing to Midge is still performing and she still has that.  She would need to die on the stage rather than lose that.

[Sarah 103]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So if you think Midge and Joel still hang out sometimes, that's a valid interpretation.

That's what I think. It's clear from the show they have no problem setting aside thier differences and being in the same room together when it's something for the kids, and wild horses wouldn't have been able to keep Joel from seeing Midge on The Gordon Ford Show. I can see Midge showing up to the openings of Joel's other clubs. 

I can belieive Joel and Midge getting together occasionally for coffee, with the excuse that it's something about the kids, but really one of them just wants to see the other and talk. I really do believe they are that rare couple that divorce but remain friends. 

11 hours ago, Love2dance said:

Can someone please fill me in…..How and when did Midge and Susie make up? I watched every episode, but can’t remember. TIA

Sometime between the dinner honoring Susie in 1990 and the final scene we see of the two of them on the phone in 2005. We don't know exactly how or when it happens. (This is why instead of a movie, we need Marvelous Shorts, showing us stuff that happened between 1961 and 2005, including things that happened between the various flashforwards). 

6 hours ago, debraran said:

I can understand the producer saying Joel was special, in her life, but marrying just wasn't good timing after they divorced. What wasn't alluded to (I do realize this is a fake family, overthinking it) is Joel with the kids after he was out. He was very involved and he loved them, supported them, especially Ethan and his "happy" ways. ; )

Not every divorced father in the 1960s completely abandoned his family and cut all ties with them. Some did remain very much a part of thier children's lives and continued to be involved. 

6 hours ago, debraran said:

When did he die I wonder. He wasn't the best husband but they wrote him as a pretty involved dad for that time period. I wonder if the kids were teens, twenties.

We know he's still alive in 1985, because that's when he's arrested, and there's another flashforward where we see him in prison a few years later. Based on that, he dies sometime between the late 1980s and 2005. The youngest the kids could have been when thier father died was in thier 30s, and the oldest they could have been is in thier 50s.  

[quangtran]

5 hours ago, bourbon said:

THIS. And I will also go to my grave believing that THE PALLADINOS think this is at least sort of sad. If not, we wouldn't have all the shots of her walking through her vast, empty apartment and wouldn't have to hand wave that she probably has pics of her grandkids elsewhere in her vast, empty apartment. Maybe Midge is perfectly content being where she is in life, but she certainly paid a price to get there. 

The way I saw it, shots of her walking through her vast apartment was to contrast with her final place in the show, which is a cozy little room with all her comedy memorabilia where she watches tv with Susie. Talk of if her life is big or small seems moot because she can do both.

[debraran]

The only time I thought she looked a little lonely (although i eat alone a lot) is sitting in the kitchen while the help did their thing. I was used to her with the smaller apartment and one cleaning lady. It's easy to look lost in what seemed like a huge place and little cold but her room with Susie to watch TV was much better. I can also see someone thinking at her age, having a freaking Tuesday off is not the end of the world unless she couldn't keep herself busy. She fed off the audience instead.

She wanted to go to NYC for Xmas so I assume she has a place there and maybe wanted to visit some people or old stomping grounds. It is lonely when as many famous people say, all your old favorite places become places you are seen and have to talk to everyone. Your privacy is gone. Trying to hide who you are by not wearing makeup, hats etc isn't something Midge would do but I wonder if that is another price she paid.

I think they aged Joel well, Susie was fine, but to me Midge looked as uncomfortable as she was getting the prosthesis on. I don't know what it was and I hope I'm in the minority but she looked uncomfortable. Even trying to "walk older" which she didn't have to do made her seem that way to me. First outfit I didn't like too  she wore, but overall the show was an A, you can't love everything all the time.

 

 

On a side note I love how Rachel and Kirby wrote their stage names on a dollar and put it in Chinese restaurant's ceiling. Said Kirby, “I thought it was a very effective ending to this chapter, the fortune  cookie. I was over the moon.” And here’s a fun fact: Brosnahan and Kirby wrote their character names on a dollar bill and stuck it on the ceiling of that Chinese restaurant. “It’s in there somewhere,” she says. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by debraran

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

...we need Marvelous Shorts, showing us stuff that happened between 1961 and 2005, including things that happened between the various flashforwards). 

Yes, and Marvelous podcast mini episodes with just audio might be the best way to go. 
I loved the settings and wardrobe as much as anyone — maybe more — but just audio would make it possible to bring together any of the characters/actors for any episode without demands of location or prostheses for aging or corsets or anything. Plus it would be so much less expensive. And the Palladinos are, IMO, superstars of dialog. 

 

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

She wanted to go to NYC for Xmas so I assume she has a place there and maybe wanted to visit some people or old stomping grounds.

Thanks for reminding us of this line. 
It reinforces my interpretation of her state of mind and life. 
I was married just once and, divorced at 36 after just 8 years, then got 2 college degrees and a profession while raising 3 kids. So kind of like Midge.

When my last kid went off to college, I later learned that my mother and sister (who both had marriages that lasted over 50 years) were sure I was crying my eyes out every night alone in the dark. 
In reality, I was tremendously relieved and enjoyed having my time and space to myself after work. And, unlike Susie but like Midge, I have decided my pet owner days are over; I do not want to be responsible for anyone else.

That said, I do see some of the sadness that others have focused on, but after reading the Indie Wire interview with the Palladinos (thanks for posting the link, @basil), I think that any sadness lurking around Midge is more an expression of A S-P's own sadness about the ending of the show and the inevitable dissolution of the Show Family, rather than anything Midge would be likely to feel.

However, assuming Joel has passed away (and, of course, Lenny), I can also attribute some twinges of sadness to that. 

So, although Midge in her 70s still has a social life in NYC in December, as with all of us as we age, the circle of her friends and even relatives will grow smaller. At least we can be sure Midge had Jeopardy! until the end, with or without Susie.

[shapeshifter]

Best part of the episode?

 

[ProudMary]

14 hours ago, millennium said:

It was in the episode with the Susie roast ... Midge appeared onscreen at the end and publicly credited Susie for her success, then suggested they talk soon.   The rest was left to our imaginations.

Yes. Also, as the roast ended, we saw Susie ask her assistant to get her Midge's phone number, so we know that Midge's desire to talk to Susie was reciprocated.

I'm fine with not seeing their actual reconciliation onscreen. We know it happened and with the 2005 flash forward, we know they remained friends, most likely for the rest of their lives.

[Love2dance]

Thank you @Sarah 103 and @millennium for the explanation of Midge and Susie’s reconciliation. I went back to our discussion of the roast episode and realized I hadn’t finished reading the messages, and missed the texts about Midge’s video and Susie’s reaching back out to her.

[luvthepros]

Damn. It's over!!!!

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, and Marvelous podcast mini episodes with just audio might be the best way to go. 
I loved the settings and wardrobe as much as anyone — maybe more — but just audio would make it possible to bring together any of the characters/actors for any episode without demands of location or prostheses for aging or corsets or anything. Plus it would be so much less expensive. And the Palladinos are, IMO, superstars of dialog. 

I hadn't even thought of podcast audio dramas, but that could totally work. If anyone could do handle a dialoge medium heavy like radio drama it would be the Palladinos.  If they didn't want to have a voice of god narrator, have one of the characters narrate, as if they were telling you the story. Also, the audio drama approach opens up the timeline. I want more stories of Noah and Midge as teenagers.

 

[millennium]

I was grateful for a last, lingering look at the Weissmans' green wall phone in the scene where everyone was calling Rose.

Edited May 30, 2023 by millennium

[shapeshifter]

Do we know how long Midge and Susie were estranged? 
It couldn't have been too long if they wound up synchronizing their VCRs to Jeopardy!.

[DrSpaceman73]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Do we know how long Midge and Susie were estranged? 
It couldn't have been too long if they wound up synchronizing their VCRs to Jeopardy!.

I assume it was like 6 to 7 years. Seemed to be from mid 80s when Joel went to jail to early 90s when the roast of Susie happened. 

[Eureka]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:44 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

If you're looking for fantastic series enders, in my book, nothing beats The Americans.  Throwing that out there for those who haven't seen it and are looking for new shows now that four good series are ending.

Yes! I have loved With Or Without You since the song came out and now, it’s always going to make me think of that episode. 

[txhorns79]

On 5/28/2023 at 4:34 AM, shapeshifter said:

So I’m going to assume pictures of Midge with family members sit on the piano too — but maybe they get rotated from a larger collection on dusting day, maybe once a month or with the change of seasons.

Apparently they used Midge Maisel in lieu of Audrey Hepburn for The Children's Hour.  The picture of Midge with Shirley MacLaine and James Garner on her piano is a promotional shot from that movie. 

[millennium]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Apparently they used Midge Maisel in lieu of Audrey Hepburn for The Children's Hour.

The Children's Hour was made in 1961, which is where Season 5 begins.  Midge's appearance on Gordon Ford must have gone over better than anyone realized if she was co-starring in a major motion picture with Shirley Maclaine that same year.

[debraran]

Not that it matters that much, but to add to the Chinese restaurant post above and Kirby and Rachel leaving a 1.00 autographed with stage names, I guess it was a tradition new owners encourage still but sadly food must have been as bad as Lenny said, can't stay open!

69 Bayard

Midge and Lenny Bruce enjoy a late-night meal at 69 Bayard, a beloved spot in Chinatown that closed in 2016. The restaurant was known for having single-dollar bills stuck up on its walls. The money was taken down and the interior was renovated, but once reopened as WK Restaurant, the new owners encouraged patrons to keep up the money wallpaper tradition. According to Yelp, WK Restaurants has also since closed.

 

,

[tennisgurl]

I think I need to sit on this for awhile, but while I wish we had gotten more closure, especially with Ethan and Ester, I am satisfied with the finale. Midge finally gets her big break and in the future Midge might feel lonely but at least she still has her career and Susie. 

Seeing Lenny near the end of his life was so hard to watch, we all knew how his story was going to end, it would have felt wrong if they changed things just because its what we wanted to see, but it still felt awful watching it all play out. Lenny only has about a year after we saw him in 1965, this is probably the last time Midge saw him. At least we got to see Lenny back in his prime one last time in that flashback to him teaching Midge how to be famous. 

I don't think that Midge's career making tight ten was her best work, but for the time period I bet it really was quite a big deal and it all worked to tie everything together again. Gordan was a really petty dick to Midge but he came around by the end, I took his "your fired" as very much a "your going to be too big for my writers room" sort of encouragement. I also loved seeing so much of the cast again, especially Imogene, cheering Midge on for her big moments and the writers all curtsying to her. 

I don't think that Joel and Midge ever really got back together, but I think that they were always the love of each others lives and were always together in some way, even if it wasn't romantically. Her sad smile looking at their wedding photo made me think that Joel has since passed away, although hopefully he got a good amount of time after he got out of jail. 

Even with the flashforwards, seeing Midge near a cellphone feels so weird. Love that Susie became an oddball rich bird lady, I guess she came around to birds after all, no matter how many times they shit on her window. I'm so glad that they managed to reconcile, Midge always has Susie no matter what else happened and they stayed each others ride or die. 

It was certainly padding, but I laughed pretty hard at Abe and Rose running through New York desperately trying to get to the show. 

I was so tickled when Alie appeared out of nowhere at the end. He's probably an actual wizard. "I'm magic." 

[luna1122again]

Ugh, I just hate the idea that without tons of kids and grandkids, your life is empty and shallow. Gross. 

I liked the finale. No, it's no Six Feet Under, but it wrapped things up nicely enough. It didn't make me cry (except for Lenny, at the beginning. Give Luke Kirby an Emmy, please.) and no, Midge rarely made me laugh either, but I can handwave that. (I'm another who never found Joan Rivers funny either.)

Loved almost everything Midge wore in the finale, except for her very final scene. Also love how boho Suzie got by the end, though I'm uncertain I see that style trajectory happening for her. I LOVED her house, even more than Midge's Dakota/not Dakota apartment. 

I think it was a perfectly happy enough ending. The two old friends cackling their heads off together via landlines. A lot of people could only hope for that in their old age. 

 

 

[Suzn]

53 minutes ago, luna1122again said:

Ugh, I just hate the idea that without tons of kids and grandkids, your life is empty and shallow. Gross. 

I hope that what I wrote didn't sound like that.  I wrote that Midge not being surrounded by family went against the expected "happy ever after" but that that had never been a high priority for her.  She had what was important to her - an active successful career and her connection with Susie.

[lucindabelle]

Table for one I loathed the Americans finale. I didn’t feel it came naturally out of the characters we’d been spending time with but that they had written the ending first. 
 

here I did not feel that way- even if they did have this idea for endgame I felt everything seemed natural for where the characters were hat we had met. Midge tried marriage again- I believed that- and I also believed she’d have trouble making it work, even with another entertainer who understood - because in her heart of hearts she only loved two people, Joel and Lenny.

 

[FaginZorro]

It was nice to see Alfie pop up from out of nowhere. I hope with his magic powers he is able to restore the 30% of his income that Susie forwards to the mob. Maybe he can also conjure up Eartha Kitts's money and Dick Gregory's too!

When and how did Susie break free of the mob grip? There is no way she could have repped Barbra in the 1980s with her intractable mob connection. No way. This never could have happened as Bab’s lawyers would never have approved Susie’s representation. BTW, just as there is a lot of Joan Rivers in Midge and a lot of Minnie Pearl in Sophie, there is a lot of Sue Mengers in Susie.

Unlike with Zelda and Mrs. M, we did not get a goodbye cameo from Sophie. It would have been interesting to see her and Shy/Reggie’s reaction to Midge’s triumph on the GF show.

Great to see Mrs. Moscowitz. I fan wank that Moishe and Shirl move asap to Boca and leave Mrs. M in charge of the garment factory with some oversight by Joel. It was nice to see the tiny bit of Imogene in the studio audience and to hear her shout encouragement to Midge.

Ethan and Esther were always afterthoughts with Midge. I suspect that Joel was the more involved and in-touch parent. While Midge was connected to her kids, they were not the center of her life. In her later years, Midge seemed content and I doubt that she ever rued not fostering a closer bond with E and E. She was probably very financially generous with E, E, and the grands, but not particularly involved.

With Joel’s visible and public arrest in a synagogue on a High Holy Day, why was there not more stink and gossip and exposure of Susie’s connections? Surely tongues would have wagged among the members of this affluent and well connected congregation.

Over the five seasons, I see the following scenes as being unneeded, and I would have preferred that the Shermalladinos have used the funds for some other enhancement.

• Season 2, Synchronized swimming in Palm Beach
• Season 4, the Wonder Wheel
• Season 5, Abe and Rose trying to catch a taxi
• Seasons 4 and 5, the Sylvio character served no purpose and did not advance the plot (well, he did make Jackie Kennedy cry.)

Midge’s biggest gaffe was exposing that her B Altman co-worker was pregnant at her wedding reception. This was done after Midge bulldozed her way into being the young lady’s wedding planner. I know that this is fiction but I still cringe when I think of how cruel this was back in 1958. Yes, I get that Midge had no self-censor, but still, she ruined what should have been her co-worker’s most memorable day. Second choice: Midge humiliates her rabbi at her wedding by revealing the non-Kosher content of the wedding meal.  This was just unneeded and immature.

That's all I got! Thanks to all Primetimers for sharing TMMM journey and for sage comments. God bless. 😉

Edited May 30, 2023 by FaginZorro
typos

[Sarah 103]

There was something that just occured to me about the 2005 scene. I thought it was strange that it was a cellphone, because if it was really about the new thing and latest tech, Midge's assistant should have been talking about a Blackberry. 

[lovett1979]

Now that the season is over, I have to say that I really hated all the time jumping and think it made the season overly complicated and confusing. I realize that they wanted Midge's big "4 minute" break to be the finale and also to show us what the rest of her life was like, but I think they should have made a choice between those two things. Either have the show go chronologically the way the previous seasons did and end with that night and include an epilogue saying how successful she and Suzie became OR put that night in the middle of the season and then time hop through the rest of her life (but in order) and end with her and Susie watching Jeopardy. What was the point of the daughter's therapy session (and then we never saw her again), or most of the stories told about Susie during her roast (time jumping within time jumping), or literally anything about her kids (the boy is stupid, Abe is concerned/disappointed; the girl is a genius, Abe's misogyny is challenged; the boy is sleeping in the hallway (?), etc). 

[Suzn]

28 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

Now that the season is over, I have to say that I really hated all the time jumping and think it made the season overly complicated and confusing. I realize that they wanted Midge's big "4 minute" break to be the finale and also to show us what the rest of her life was like, but I think they should have made a choice between those two things. Either have the show go chronologically the way the previous seasons did and end with that night and include an epilogue saying how successful she and Suzie became OR put that night in the middle of the season and then time hop through the rest of her life (but in order) and end with her and Susie watching Jeopardy. What was the point of the daughter's therapy session (and then we never saw her again), or most of the stories told about Susie during her roast (time jumping within time jumping), or literally anything about her kids (the boy is stupid, Abe is concerned/disappointed; the girl is a genius, Abe's misogyny is challenged; the boy is sleeping in the hallway (?), etc). 

I agree that it did make it overly complicated.  I re-watched the season and made notes of all time jumps and put them in order to make sense of it.  Each time jump was disorienting when first seen and only fell into place enough for me by going back to think about them in sequence.

I didn't need to see Midge's disagreeable daughter - pointless except to show that Midge was not much of a mother.

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

 What was the point of the daughter's therapy session (and then we never saw her again), or most of the stories told about Susie during her roast (time jumping within time jumping), or literally anything about her kids (the boy is stupid, Abe is concerned/disappointed; the girl is a genius, Abe's misogyny is challenged; the boy is sleeping in the hallway (?), etc). 

Esther's therapy session sets up Abe's big epiphany towards the end of the season. It is proof that he wasn't just talking at the dinner. He really did change how he saw and treated Esther. The kids have never been major parts of the story. They have always been silly C plots or an excuse to bring Joel and Midge together. 

As for Susie's roast, it showed how big and important she was within the industry.  It demonstrated that she was more than just Midge's manager. In the roast episode, it was also clear when there was a time jump because someone would start a story, and then we would see what was happening. They made it pretty clear to me within the episode what was happening. 

Unlike other people, I never had a problem with the time jumps. There was a title card with the year at the start of the episode, and then another title card with the year when it was the main action of the 1960s, so to me it was always clear exactly where we were on the timeline. 

 

[Suzn]

5 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Unlike other people, I never had a problem with the time jumps. There was a title card with the year at the start of the episode, and then another title card with the year when it was the main action of the 1960s, so to me it was always clear exactly where we were on the timeline. 

That wasn't the problem with the time jumps. I could put together the sequence of events afterward, but watching the time jump in the moment, it wasn't instantly clear what had already happened and what was to happen in the future.  Also, some of the time jumps seemed random, such as the almost wedding, and didn't contribute much.  We don't know who she did marry.  There were hints in the pictures on the piano and the pictures shown in the 60 Minute interview but three marriages were apparently not important enough to even identify.

[fishcakes]

40 minutes ago, Suzn said:

We don't know who she did marry.  There were hints in the pictures on the piano and the pictures shown in the 60 Minute interview but three marriages were apparently not important enough to even identify.

They did name her husbands in the 60 Minutes interview: Paul Simon, Robert Evans, and Quincy Jones. The interview took place when she was still estranged from Susie, so it was sometime before 1990. I don’t think there was mention in other episodes of additional marriages between ‘90 and ‘05, but I may have missed it.

Edited May 31, 2023 by fishcakes

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

They did name her husbands in the 60 Minutes interview: Paul Simon, Robert Evans, and Quincy Jones. The interview took place when she was still estranged from Susie, so it was sometime before 1990. I don’t think there was mention in other episodes of additional marriages between ‘90 and ‘05, but I may have missed it.

They showed pictures of her with various men but I don't they named husbands.  They said she had been married four times.  I don't think it gave the year but "appeared" to be about 1985.  I'll check it.

ETA:  It does not name husbands, but shows her pictures with those men and maybe we are meant to assume they were the three husbands after Joel, but her pictures on the piano show her with other men, so I don't think it is set in stone.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Suzn

[revbfc]

Forgive me if anyone already asked this, but does anyone know what alternate endings were filmed for the show?

[SoWindsor]

I find it puzzling why people perceive Midge in 2005 as a sad situation. While it's true that she was alone in her spacious house on that particular night, it's important to consider that there are likely other nights when her home is bustling with friends and family. In that moment, she was simply unwinding after a long day and enjoying a phone conversation with her best friend, filled with uncontrollable laughter. She had achieved her dreams, and there is nothing inherently sad about that.

[fishcakes]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:05 AM, revbfc said:

Forgive me if anyone already asked this, but does anyone know what alternate endings were filmed for the show?

I haven't read anything about alternate endings, but I would be surprised if there were any. The Palladinos, Amy in particular, are known for having a particular vision for their work and insisting it be done their way. Actors have even said that there's no ad libbing, and that the script has to be followed word-for-word.

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I haven't read anything about alternate endings, but I would be surprised if there were any. The Palladinos, Amy in particular, are known for having a particular vision for their work and insisting it be done their way. Actors have even said that there's no ad libbing, and that the script has to be followed word-for-word.

Maybe that's how the crazy and totally untrue rumor got started in the late 1990s/early 2000s that Amy Sherman Pallidino didn't exist, and that it was actually Aaron Sorkin writing The Gilmore Girls under a different name. They both have similar styles. 

[chessiegal]

 

43 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

untrue rumor got started in the late 1990s/early 2000s that Amy Sherman Pallidino didn't exist

Gilmore Girls debuted on October 5, 2000. And how could anyone say ASP didn't exist? She and her crazy hats were all over the media.

[Sarah 103]

5 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Gilmore Girls debuted on October 5, 2000. And how could anyone say ASP didn't exist? She and her crazy hats were all over the media.

I didn't check when Gilmore Girls debuted before I posted. I have no idea how the crazy rumor got started, just that ASP was asked about it in a panel at the Paley Center for Media event.  

[7-Zark-7]

This ending made me so happy. What a great way to end the show. I was so worried that they wasted all of last season showing Midge treading water that I thought they wouldn’t have enough time in ten episodes to do Midge’s career (and the series) justice, but they pulled it off.

[gorgy]

That was the loosest four minutes in television history.

Anyway, I think I said somewhere in some thread that I always imagined the ending would somehow be the Gilmore Girls watching and reminiscing over an old Mrs Maisel standup thing. I didn't realize this show would end in a similar situation except it would be harkening back to Alex Trebek. 

I have to say, as much I have enjoyed this show overall, this season was just not that strong. It just felt like a lot of story threads left dangling. What was the point of Milo Ventimiglia's character coming back? All I can say is the flash forwards did not work for me at all. They added some context but didn't really add much to overall story, I guess. They left me unsatisfied, I suppose. 

The ending was fine. Midge lived the life she wanted to live. Just because you're alone doesn't mean you're lonely. She seemed happy doing what she wanted to do... still hate those flash forwards. 

[FaginZorro]

Based on the ending, and on how this story was told, Susie probably ended up with far more ducats than Midge. This is regardless of the 30% mob connection and whether or not she was able to break free.

• Susie repped not only Midge but other "A"-list, high-prestige clients. Dick Gregory and Eartha Kitt are okay, but Babs was the stratospheric, holy grail for agents. Bank. Ducats. Scratch. Grip. Moola. Ka-ching!
• Susie conceived and executed her own projects such as the Elizabeth Montgomery - Andy Griffith TV show that she pitched on the golf course. Bank. Ducats. Scratch. Grip. Moola. Ka-ching!
• In this parallel universe, Susie was the driving force behind The French Connection and other major movies. Bank. Ducats. Scratch. Grip. Moola. Ka-ching!

So yes, while Susie started off really po' (not even "poor," but "po'"; remember at Steiners in the Catskills when she ate leftover food off of others' plates and the manager had to chastise her plumber persona into eating during the employees' dining time; remember when she could not afford business cards; remember the closet where she lived?), in the end, Susie's earnings far eclipsed the formidable bank that Midge had amassed.

It is interesting that Midge did not venture into comic films or even a TV show a la Ray Romano, Brett Butler and Bob Newhart. It seems that her income was from touring all the time, which is a harsh life for a performer.

 

[Sarah 103]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:30 AM, FaginZorro said:

It is interesting that Midge did not venture into comic films or even a TV show a la Ray Romano, Brett Butler and Bob Newhart. It seems that her income was from touring all the time, which is a harsh life for a performer.

My guess is she's one of those people who needs the applause and laughter of a live audience, and a studio audience during a taping isn't going to do it for her. She needs to know the laughter is real, genuine, and earned. 

[Dobian]

Finally wrapped up this season.  Very good finale.  I smiled all through Midge's triumphant monologue.  I think the reason many didn't find it hilariously funny is because we're heard it all before, maybe even some of the same jokes from the first episodes.  And she was throwing in a fair number of New York Jew jokes.  You have to consider that a New York audience in 1961 hearing this unknown comic for the first time would have been laughing hard at a lot of those jokes.  So she earned the couch invitation which launched her career.  Having Susie give her the green light to go for it during the commercial break gave the scene its "Rocky" moment and the payoff that everyone had been waiting five seasons for.  The Lenny Bruce scenes were very poignant, knowing how his life ended.  And it was nice to see that his daughter helped with his portrayal on the show.  The final scene with Midge and Susie watching Jeopardy! was perfect, with the added bonus of hearing Alex Trebek on the television.  Great ending.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Dobian

[Shermie]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:47 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Unlike other people, I never had a problem with the time jumps. There was a title card with the year at the start of the episode, and then another title card with the year when it was the main action of the 1960s, so to me it was always clear exactly where we were on the timeline. 

This. I think some people just can’t process that kind of storytelling, the same ones who found Back To The Future 2 too complicated.

All these requests for podcasts and extras to explain what happened seem odd to me; that was literally the purpose of the time jumps. I felt the whole story was told quite well over this final season: Midge’s big moment that propelled her into superstardom and how it came to me, Midge & Susie’s falling out and reconciliation, what happened to all the side players. I don’t need big plots detailing Ethan and Esther’s lives; this was not their story.

The big takeaway was how hard a woman had to work to be taken seriously and then become successful in a man’s world. And the price Midge paid for her fame, if one considers she paid a price. After all, she still had family, friends, her relationship with Susie, and most important to her, a successful career. If that’s what brings her comfort in her old age, instead of the traditional visits from kids and grandkids, then so be it. We don’t have to want the same things. In the end, she was content. 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Shermie said:

and most important to her, a successful career. If that’s what brings her comfort in her old age, instead of the traditional visits from kids and grandkids, then so be it.

And Midge saying she wanted to be in NYC for the holidays could mean there are family gatherings then, although not every living family member can make it every year.

 

On 5/31/2023 at 5:47 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Unlike other people, I never had a problem with the time jumps. There was a title card with the year at the start of the episode, and then another title card with the year when it was the main action of the 1960s, so to me it was always clear exactly where we were on the timeline. 

I wonder if the time jumps would have worked better if the "title card" words had stayed on the screen a bit longer than is typical since the show had a lot of distractingly rich visuals of scenery and costumes.

[mostlylurking]

On 5/27/2023 at 12:45 AM, bybrandy said:

And that not be a choice every woman or even most might make but that is who Midge is the day we met her and who Midge is in the end.  And that’s fine. She’s fine. She’s spending the night hanging out with her best friend in the world. 

That’s the impression I get as well.  I mean Midge wasn’t exactly the most involved parent in the world even before she made it big.  As far as having it all, whatever that even means, I’m going to say something unpopular for the times but I’m sorry - it’s not possible.  Not for women or for men, but of course only women seem to even care about this concept.  For men, it’s just accepted.  You need to pick and choose your priorities and let the other shit slide a bit.  It’s just life.  I don’t think Midge was sad.  She had a great life, and she’s melancholy about it as most people are as we age.  But I don’t think she regrets anything one bit.  And good for her (and Susie).

[mostlylurking]

On 5/29/2023 at 8:13 PM, shapeshifter said:

Do we know how long Midge and Susie were estranged? 

About 5 years.  According to the year captions Joel went to prison (or was at least arrested) in 1985 and Susie’s roast was in 1990.  They seem to have reconciled soon after that.

I’m glad they showed Imogene at the end, I’ve been wondering what happened to her since she and Midge were supposedly such good friends.  I loved Abe and Rose finally being proud of Midge and telling her so.  I loved the whole thing really.  I got teary every time Susie got teary.  She just stole the show for me.  I’m so going to miss it!

[bettername2come]

I'm glad Midge and Susie tried with Lenny, but there's no hope for that situation. Kind of makes me wish there was less Lenny Bruce throughout the series. 

"My daughter's trauma will have to wait until she's old enough to go shopping with my mother." "That's fair." Good for Rose. 

I'm glad everyone was supportive of her. The writers giving her a standing ovation. I'm glad Gordon came around and was genuinely surprised he invited her to the couch. 

Great aging on 2005 Susie's hands. Susie seems to be living in Hawaii. Good for her. I was expecting Midge to be one of the Jeopardy answers. The flashforwards feel even more pointless now, though I was happy to see some of the successes. 

[edhopper]

Overall, I liked the finale. We got the instant her career took off and closure for her and Suzie. 

To inconsequential anachronism, that bugged me none the less.. In 1965, Lenny would not have made a Bruce Lee joke, since nobody knew who he was, Green Hornet didn't start until 1966.

And in 1961, nobody moved to a condo in Boca. I grew up in Florida.  The Condo thing in Florida was still a decade away, and Boca Raton was still farm land and swamp.

Rich Jews moved to Miami Beach and got a house with a pool.

And Central Park apartments aren't that huge. Even whole floors in the Dakota don't have rooms that big. I think they used the Doris Duke Mansion on Fifth Avenue for the interiors.