S01.E13: A Bad Temper And A Hard Heart

[Pop Tart]

Quote

When an APD agent goes missing, Will examines the crime scene and locates a secret message putting him back on the path to justice. Meanwhile, with his lineage in question, Will realizes the answers he seeks have been in front of him all along.

Air date: 05.02.23

[DEL901]

All I can say right now is don’t watch while cropping onions. 

[AnimeMania]

He was found in a trash can.

[statsgirl]

2 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

He was found in a trash can.

Didn't we already know that his nickname was "Trashcan"?

Good episode, wrapping things up just enough. Ormewood turns out to be a good guy and even Campano  comes through.  I'm glad that they got a season 2, but I want more now.

[redpencil]

I love Paul Campano so much. I want him to make random cameos at random times multiple times a season, preferably in scenes with Betty. I was ready to be so mad if they killed him off in last week's episode; glad he got himself out of that. MPG is always welcome on my screen.

[possibilities]

Why did the killer go after Paul? He wasn't the same type of person as the other victims.  And why was he having all the kids from the foster home tracked? I didn't understand that. I understood he wanted to hurt Will. And Angie was a way to hurt Will. But why was he having Percival track all of them? He didn't need any help finding Will and Angie, they worked for the Dept and he knew that. So that whole business with Percival and Paul and the children's home last week seemed like it didn't add up based on this week's resolution.

I wish Amanda had told Will a long time ago that she had wanted to adopt him and hadn't been allowed. When they first reconnected when he was 19 or whenever that was, that was the moment for her to let him know that he was loved. Why didn't she tell him then? 

 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Didn't we already know that his nickname was "Trashcan"?

Will kept correcting people saying it wasn't a trash can, it was a dumpster, but Will was incorrect, it was a trash can.

[Irlandesa]

51 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Why did the killer go after Paul? He wasn't the same type of person as the other victims. 

As much as I enjoyed the two-parter, the mystery did fall apart for me.  The guy killed prostitutes.  But when Lucy died, he stopped I guess?  But then he started again but this time he went after the people in the same home as Trent to get back at home.  It made no sense.  Especially since someone who does the kind of killing that was done in the 80s likely does it out of compulsion. He also had this crazy ability to get in everywhere. 

I should have realized it was going to be Greg Germann last week.  He's too recognizable not to have a significant part. I think it might have been more effective if he had a recurring role throughout the season.

One thing I forgot to mention is loving the flashbacks in both of these episodes.  It reminds me of a book I read about two women police officers in Atlanta in the 70s.  It was a standalone book but I wish the author wrote more of them (not that I remember the title.)

ETA: I Googled and the book is Cop Town and is by Karin Slaughter.  I should be surprised that it's the same author of this series and yet I'm not.  It really makes a lot of sense.  (And I'd love for ABC to greenlight a prequel series to follow those two.)

Another random thing I loved, Lisa Gay Hamilton and the other guy doing a coordinated dance routine.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Irlandesa

[FlowerofCarnage]

Poor Will, the first picture he's ever seen of his mother and it's her dead body. Glad he was able to get a pic of her alive...and smiling. 

Crazy how Evelyn and Amanda's kids ended up being partners just like they were. 

[MDL]

I unfortunately missed last week's episode, and could only watch last tonight's episode in bits and pieces.

Please let me know if I am correct in the following info: (apologies and thanks in advance!)

1) Regarding the two young  police women/officers in the flashbacks: the one who found "baby Will" is now Will's boss in the ABI (Amanda), and the other is Faith's mother.

2) Near the end of the episode, when Will was at his desk looking through evidence documents, the young woman who comforted him was his mother “Lucy”(?), and she was a creation of, and existed only in his mind.

3) If I followed it correctly, the cops realized  who the bad guy was, and  where Will and Angie were, when one of the cops recognized/ remembered a particular smell (fragrance?). Could somebody please connect the dots for me?

Again, thanks!

 

[DEL901]

16 minutes ago, MDL said:

I unfortunately missed last week's episode, and could only watch last tonight's episode in bits and pieces.

Please let me know if I am correct in the following info: (apologies and thanks in advance!)

1) Regarding the two young  police women/officers in the flashbacks: the one who found "baby Will" is now Will's boss in the ABI (Amanda), and the other is Faith's mother.

2) Near the end of the episode, when Will was at his desk looking through evidence documents, the young woman who comforted him was his mother “Lucy”(?), and she was a creation of, and existed only in his mind.

3) If I followed it correctly, the cops realized  who the bad guy was, and  where Will and Angie were, when one of the cops recognized/ remembered a particular smell (fragrance?). Could somebody please connect the dots for me?

Again, thanks!

 

All right, except it wasn’t one of the cops…Mark Paul Gosselar, who had been attacked and also recognized the smell on Betty figured out where he had smelled it before.  It was from the soap in the men’s room at a restaurant the killer frequented.  

[catrice2]

Love the series but these two episodes made no sense for several reasons.  I also knew who the killer was from his first scene. 

The old cop was like a cartoon character.  It should have been Amanda and Evelyn going after the suspect.

Faith has been off for some episodes.

Will see what happens in season 2

[Chaos Theory]

Faith’s mom being the one to sit with Will and comfort him in the end and explain his true connection to Amanda was a nice way to circle around another of the stories since one of the big background stories is how Trent got her fired.   These two finally understanding each other and also having several deep rooted connections plays well into the story.     And it is sad that Amanda couldn’t have adopted Will as a baby but it was the 80s and there was no way it would have happened and there are logical reasons why she didn’t tell him later.  How do you tell someone something like that without destroying them?   Trying to solve his mothers murder would have sent Will Trent into a spiral he may never have been able to pull himself out of.   He had no partner no friends except Angie.   He only formed his partnership with Faith….who hated him at First…recently.   Things happen in their own time and learning about his mother might have happened when it was meant to.  

Edited May 3, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[Snazzy Daisy]

Betty is so freaking adorable in this episode. Am gonna miss her!

 

And I can watch Paul Campano sniffing Betty for the whole hour. It's kinda therapeutic. 😂

Edited May 3, 2023 by SnazzyDaisy

[milkyaqua]

Yes, there were holes but I did like the episodes for the most.  I'm glad Will has mostly closure though now he's going to wonder who his actual father is.

Definitely should have pegged Greg Germann as the killer as well.  The ex-cop was a red-herring except for him turning out to be a rapist pig and I hope he gets as much time as possible for firing at cops.

I like MPG's character as well and his interactions with Betty.

[Chaos Theory]

Paul plays as annoying big brother character even if they are the same age (maybe).   I mean they all lived in the same group home for a time and from what I understand were abused children so I can see them forming a weird bond even if for Paul and Will it is a bit  adversarial in nature.   

[Sarah 103]

12 hours ago, redpencil said:

I love Paul Campano so much. I want him to make random cameos at random times multiple times a season, preferably in scenes with Betty.

I agree. I would not want Paul Campano in every episode, but I would enjoy having pop up a few time per season. 

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And I'd love for ABC to greenlight a prequel series to follow those two.

I would love a series about Evelyn and Amanda as cops in the 1980s. 

The 1980s seemed awfully late for a state to still have a law/regulation preventing single parents from adopting. States started to change thier laws/regulations in the 1960s, so I would imagine that most states would have allowed single parents to adopt by the mid 1980s. 

[Chaos Theory]

1 minute ago, Sarah 103 said:

 

The 1980s seemed awfully late for a state to still have a law/regulation preventing single parents from adopting. States started to change thier laws/regulations in the 1960s, so I would imagine that most states would have allowed single parents to adopt by the mid 1980s. 

The show danced around the race issue.   There is zero chance a single black cop would be allowed anywhere near a white looking child.   Will Trent’s hereditary is in question and could pass for 100% Caucasian so no way in heck could Amanda even foster him alone.    The show didn’t want to say that in those words so….

[Boofish]

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why did the killer go after Paul? He wasn't the same type of person as the other victims.  And why was he having all the kids from the foster home tracked? I didn't understand that. I understood he wanted to hurt Will. And Angie was a way to hurt Will. But why was he having Percival track all of them? He didn't need any help finding Will and Angie, they worked for the Dept and he knew that. So that whole business with Percival and Paul and the children's home last week seemed like it didn't add up based on this week's resolution.

I wish Amanda had told Will a long time ago that she had wanted to adopt him and hadn't been allowed. When they first reconnected when he was 19 or whenever that was, that was the moment for her to let him know that he was loved. Why didn't she tell him then? 

 

Because he blamed Will for killing Lucy, the one victim of his he actually liked and claims he was not going to kill. He started killing people from the group home to get Will to come after him so he could kill Will as well.

[possibilities]

It still doesn't make sense to me.

He blames Will, but why did he need Will to come after him in order to kill him? He managed to kidnap and kill every other victim without an elaborate scheme. 

Also, if he really didn't want  Lucy to get hurt, why was he detaining her, forcing her to give birth in that room (which is why she was prevented from meeting Amanda and ... Faith's mom). I think he was going to kill her, or else he wouldn't have allowed her to bleed to death. I mean, if he wanted her to live, he would have at least called 911 if he actually cared and wasn't trying to force her to give birth alone and die when she started to hemorrhage.

Maybe the answer is just that he's deranged, but that's not good storytelling. usually the show's elements add up, and this one just didn't do that for me.

It was very effective on the level of emotional upset and sheer horror, though. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by possibilities

[Evagirl]

I know this is teevee and so things don't always work in a realistic manner.  However, I question how the lawyer even knew Lucy's child survived let alone know that the said child was Will Trent.  One more thing, if he blamed the baby for killing Lucy, why wrap the baby in a blanket and put him alive in a trash can.  Why not kill the baby if his hatred ran that deep?  But it all makes for good teevee as far as I'm concerned.  I love this show and am in it for the long haul.

 

[Boofish]

Now the rest I don't know but that was his connection to Will and he probably knew all he did about Will because he was in touch with Amanda and Evelyn who were unwittingly feeding him information. And also he was deranged. 

[DEL901]

12 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

I know this is teevee and so things don't always work in a realistic manner.  However, I question how the lawyer even knew Lucy's child survived let alone know that the said child was Will Trent.  One more thing, if he blamed the baby for killing Lucy, why wrap the baby in a blanket and put him alive in a trash can.  Why not kill the baby if his hatred ran that deep?  But it all makes for good teevee as far as I'm concerned.  I love this show and am in it for the long haul.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Boofish said:

Now the rest I don't know but that was his connection to Will and he probably knew all he did about Will because he was in touch with Amanda and Evelyn who were unwittingly feeding him information. And also he was deranged. 

And I’m sure it would have made the news when baby Will was found alive.   He may have lost track after Will was adopted and then after the Paul Campano case, Will was in the news again and maybe that brought back his feelings of rage.

[greekmom]

Gawd - you needed the kleenex for this episode.

I can't believe that Social Services would rather see a child in foster care system (which they would have to pay) or in a children's home than with a single person.  What stupidity.

Hopefully we see more MPG next season.  I loved him in this episode.

Will being cheated from bringing that piece of garbage to jail was just sad.

[catrice2]

I think we can love the show and the characters and admit that these 2 episodes were disjointed, not well written and in some parts not well acted by the supporting characters.  It is ok. Everything doesnt have to make sense for us to like an episode.

The reason and method for going after Will and the group home children did not make sense and scenes like standing there while he calls you to run you over?  WHY? Again either explain more or leave it out. 

Add the why show up alone and take so long to disarm the suspect.  It went heavy on the soap opera feels and not making the case and that is ok

Next year I would like new writers or showrunners to tighten scripts around the crimes. They are always a mess but it nails the emotional beats.  I guess it really is figuring out if this is a police procedural more or something else. 

Already looking forward to new wardrobe choices and hopefully the doctor and Faith and more Amanda in the field or strategizing. 

[Rickster]

Given how rare a gold vintage (?) Jaguar must be, I don’t know why it would take more than 5 minutes to find the owner through DMV records.

 

[twoods]

I kept getting distracted from being envious of Sonja Sohn’s skin. It is absolutely flawless and I want to look half that good at 58. Her last scene with Will made me cry. I hope he forgives her soon because they need each other. 
 

More MPG next season, please. He works so well with Will and Betty. 
 

I hope that Angie isn’t paralyzed next season. Hearing that the sicko crushed her spine and head seems like she’s going to have a lot of medical issues next season.

[possibilities]

I liked Paul, but not as much as other people seem to like him. I didn't like when he yelled at the guy for bringing the wrong scent to test. It was a bad look for how you treat people. 

Also, I am not sure what knowing the name of the scent would have done to help them find the perp. It turned out it DID help them-- because it was tied to a location. But if it had just been some aftershave or somesuch, how does knowing its name help them find the guy? Can they put out a bulletin saying "the suspect smells like XX brand?" Would the search team know what that smells like?

 

[SnapHappy]

18 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

The 1980s seemed awfully late for a state to still have a law/regulation preventing single parents from adopting. States started to change thier laws/regulations in the 1960s, so I would imagine that most states would have allowed single parents to adopt by the mid 1980s. 

Georgia is notorious for being behind the curve in granting rights to issues that aren't supported by the Bible and the religious right. 

Not slamming them, just observations from family members living there.  

[LisaM]

I did not fully understand why Greg Germann's character targeted Will and the kids from the Home. I enjoyed seeing the earlier iterations of Amanda and Faith's mom; also liked seeing Faith's mom talking with Will - who had ended her career. 

[DEL901]

Just now, LisaM said:

I did not fully understand why Greg Germann's character targeted Will and the kids from the Home. I enjoyed seeing the earlier iterations of Amanda and Faith's mom; also liked seeing Faith's mom talking with Will - who had ended her career. 

He blamed Will for killing his mother.   Killing the other kids from the home was just fun as well as a way to hurt Will.

[SnapHappy]

I agree they should have introduced "James" just a couple of episodes earlier.  No need for more storyline, just short interactions with Amanda or Ormewood would have been fine. 

When they showed Will "talking" to his mother, they had a hard focus on the medallion around her neck.  Totally gave it away that it got saved and he'd get it in the end.  

I'm wondering if Will's going to low-key ask for a DNA test of James, just to rule out him being his father.  I would HAVE to be absolutely sure.

Also, James referred to Lucy's big, rowdy-sounding family.  Any bets he's going to spend time next season looking for his relatives?  

[HelloooKitty]

Oh, 100% Will is gonna look for the relatives. I’m guessing the uncle first bc his mom’s brother was specifically mentioned/singled out. 

[Raja]

22 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

The show danced around the race issue.   There is zero chance a single black cop would be allowed anywhere near a white looking child.   Will Trent’s hereditary is in question and could pass for 100% Caucasian so no way in heck could Amanda even foster him alone.    The show didn’t want to say that in those words so….

👍

And it went in the other direction also. A Mr. Drummond of Diff'rent Strokes would have to fight would have to fight to keep Willis and Arnold. It would be another generation before interracial couples, beyond non sexual children like on Saved By The Bell, would be seen on TV and in its advertising. Even if given colorism issues Black characters were often multiracial, in today's terms, actors. 

Of course being an infant we are left to wonder why  adoptive families were not in line  to snap up young Will. I can only guess the state held on to him long enough,   until he aged out of the easy adoption age, to diagnose something that saw continuous foster care. But perhaps I missed it in earlier episodes.

[possibilities]

I was thinking maybe Amanda being a lesbian would be used against her, more even than being single. For sure lesbians couldn't adopt until recently, and even genetic parents who were not straight were threatened with losing their children in some cases (I personally know of divorces where this was used). But I guess the show didn't want to talk about that, either.

I thought they established that Amanda is a lesbian, early in the series, though, when she met with her ex? So I thought they might actually want to talk about it.

Or did I imagine that, or am mixing this up with a different show?

[Raja]

24 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I was thinking maybe Amanda being a lesbian would be used against her, more even than being single. For sure lesbians couldn't adopt until recently, and even genetic parents who were not straight were threatened with losing their children in some cases (I personally know of divorces where this was used). But I guess the show didn't want to talk about that, either.

I thought they established that Amanda is a lesbian, early in the series, though, when she met with her ex? So I thought they might actually want to talk about it.

Or did I imagine that, or am mixing this up with a different show?

But would  have Amanda been out in 1986? Don't ask, don't tell for the US military was a decade later.

[tennisgurl]

I'm so glad that Paul is alright, I was worried that he might end up being a last minute victim. He cracks me up, I love the weird dynamic between him, Angie, and Will. Paul's a dick, but they have this history of surviving some horrible things together that gives them a bond. Paul even came through in the end! I hope we keep seeing him pop up sometimes, he's too much fun to disappear. I hope that Angie is alright, the killer went to town on her back, she's already got so much going on she doesn't need permanent damage that could get her off active duty.

Wild how Will ended up running into Amanda as a young adult, and that Evelyn and Amanda's respective kids ended up being partners, after Will help get Evelyn fired. Its tragic that Will could have had a happy childhood with Amanda instead of an awful time in foster care and Amanda could have raised him, but at least they've found each other again. And now at least Will knows who his mom was and that she loved him, even if a lot of her life and death was rough. I am also glad that the serial killer who killed his mom isn't also his dad, but now I am sure he's going to start looking for any family members. 

Of course its the lawyer, its the old "always look for the guy you recognize" rule for mysteries. The mystery itself was a bit convoluted, but I tend to watch this show for the characters and tone, not the mysteries, which are usually the least interesting thing about an episode. 

Betty is such a good dog. This was a good finale, looking forward to next season!

Edited May 4, 2023 by tennisgurl

[EtheltoTillie]

Sonja Sohn (Kima) was a lesbian in The Wire.  I don't remember if they established that in this show as well.  Maybe you're remembering that? 

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

I hope Angie is okay too.  She's got enough going on in her life without adding paralysis.  Besides, she should have some good karma coming her way since she saved Betty instead of herself.

[DearEvette]

I think this was a good episode that was more about deepening character more than trying to be clever in solving a mystery.

I agree there wasn't enough explanation how James pivoted from serial killing prostitutes to serial killing orphans.  The 'He hated me because my mother died having me' is a rather thin motive, imo.  I'd find it more convincing if 1) James had been introduced earlier and 2) learned off-hand that Will had been taunted and being called Trashcan and 3) rather than targeting Will, be went after the kids who taunted him because he was Lucy's son. 

But I actually think they decided to target the kids for no other reason than it allowed them to put Angie in jeopardy. And in doing so they made Angie both smart and tv stupid.  She is smart enough to get away from the man and leave Will clues.  Saving Betty made sense to get her captured. But once she got out of his basement, her turning her back to where he would egress and call Will instead of 911 first are dumb tv moves from a street smart person like Angie.  A person with a background like Angie's and training like Angie's would not put her back to a threat.

Anyway... that is small potatoes for me in this episode.  It was all about Amanda and Will.  I had been very much wanting to know about Amanda and Will's background since the episode where he got kidnapped and she was so visibly upset by it, more than it merited just being upset at an agent being in jeopardy.  For that reason, this episode did not disappoint and really worked for me, even with the dodgy serial killer plotting. 

I also liked adding in Evelyn here and making her so much part of Will's past as well.  She was a great ad to the story especially in the beginning where Amanda and Will were too emotionally involved whereas she answered with calmness and kept it all going forward.  It was a nice rational contrast to all their feelings spilling all over the place.  And I also loved her in the end talking to Will about Amanda and making him realize how Amanda was a mother in spirit.

[possibilities]

7 hours ago, Raja said:

But would  have Amanda been out in 1986? Don't ask, don't tell for the US military was a decade later.

I knew lots and lots of out people in the 1970s, so there were out people long befor don't ask don't tell was repealed. Even if she wasn't out at work, that info could potentially be discovered during the adoption process, especially if she had a girlfriend.

[UnoAgain]

They're kinda leaving it mum on Amanda's preferences...she seemed flirty with that reporter but she didn't really back away from reaching out to James... So She could be BI...either way a half blk half Korean single woman cop prob wasn't getting a kid in 86 Atlanta 

[UnoAgain]

I think the show felt familiar because it reminded me of how to get away with murder....just the tenuous connection between an older woman and the boy she takes under her wing for reasons to do with his past and her guilt...and Amanda Keating was also Bi...so while it never clicked while watching the show and they are different in almost all the ways as I loved HTGAWM and of course viola...I loved will trent and Sonja did a great job

[SnapHappy]

I was 0 for 2 in the important stuff.  I liked James & thought he was just an interesting addition to the casual, walk-on cast - Nope, serial killer and baby disposer.  

And I didn't like Faith's mom Evelyn, I thought she was a whining, corrupt burn out - Nope, stand-up gal & a damn good cop according to the flashbacks.  If they did that to rehab her, I hope next season we get some more info on how she went from good cop to bad cop.  I like how she explained things to Will in a way Amanda wouldn't be able to.  

 

 

[UnoAgain]

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

I was 0 for 2 in the important stuff.  I liked James & thought he was just an interesting addition to the casual, walk-on cast - Nope, serial killer and baby disposer.  

And I didn't like Faith's mom Evelyn, I thought she was a whining, corrupt burn out - Nope, stand-up gal & a damn good cop according to the flashbacks.  If they did that to rehab her, I hope next season we get some more info on how she went from good cop to bad cop.  I like how she explained things to Will in a way Amanda wouldn't be able to.  

 

 

It sounded like she herself wasn't dirty...but allowed things under her to get too outta control so when will investigated it brought her down

[Clanstarling]

I liked the episode, even with the issues. Seeing a tiny baby in a trashcan is much more visceral than just hearing that Will was left in a trashcan.

I'm not sure how I felt about his mother "visiting" him, but I did appreciate that she didn't offer anything that he didn't hope or know himself. So I'll go along with the woo-woo aspect.

I don't remember anyone saying/implying that Sonja's character was a lesbian. But I could have missed it.

I would have liked to have seen Betty's bite on Greg German (though irrelevant with his poisoning suicide). Oh well. Bygones.

[possibilities]

I thought this was the season finale, but then I see there's 2 hours of the show next week.

I may be mistaken, but I thought thy showed Amanda with her ex in an episode earlier in the season, when she get involved in that case with the family in the car who was murdered and their baby survived and was raised elsewhere, then came back as an adult and was killing in revenge?

[SnapHappy]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Oh well. Bygones.

Thanks for this!  *LOL*

[Clanstarling]

40 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Thanks for this!  *LOL*

Wondered who'd get it. 😉

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought this was the season finale, but then I see there's 2 hours of the show next week.

I may be mistaken, but I thought thy showed Amanda with her ex in an episode earlier in the season, when she get involved in that case with the family in the car who was murdered and their baby survived and was raised elsewhere, then came back as an adult and was killing in revenge?

No, this was the finale. Must be repeats next week.

I think people speculated that woman was Amanda's ex but I don't think it was explicitly said in the show.