S03.E05: Signs

[Dobian]

13 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

The actress is pretty good on For All Mankind. So I'd say it's the writing.

 

That's where I recognized her!  I couldn't put my finger on it.  Yes, her For All Mankind role is a whole lot meatier than this glorified cameo.

[Kel Varnsen]

I kind of hate that the hostess came around and started being nice to Nate, considering it seems like he brought his date to the restaurant just to show off to her that he was dating a famous model (and show off to everyone else since he wanted to sit by the window like a museum exhibit or something). He even pointed out to her who exactly his date was. So the model then bails on him mid-date and the hostess decides she feels bad for him and now wants to spend time with him? Even though he has been a jackass pretty much every other time he has been there?

[Athena5217]

6 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am American and don't think Jade was being rude. Before Nate was an ass, the window table was not Jade's call but management's, is what I thought. After he became an ass, I assumed the issue was he was trying to impress her with his status, and she did not care he was locally famous.

I wouldn’t say she was “rude” when Nate asked to have the window table for his parents’ anniversary, but I don’t think she was nice either. If she didn’t have the power to reserve the table, she could have told Nate that she would ask her manager. Instead she just said they don’t take reservations for that table. It was a special occasion, he asked nicely, and his family are repeat customers so she could have made more effort.

I was not bothered by her not being impressed by his status as West Ham coach because he was bring pompous by then. Jade me laugh when her facial expression didn’t change at all when Nate introduced his date the famous mode.

[Crs97]

I love Jade, but I don’t mind calling her out for being a snob.  The first time they met she specifically told Nate to bring Roy with him, and she’d give Roy the table.  I love how completely unimpressed she is about seemingly everyone.  My eyes rolled when she turned nice after Nate’s date ditched him.

[Phebemarie]

I didn’t get the impression Nate brought the model to his favorite restaurant to show her off.  He seemed a bit clueless about what to do with her. He wasn’t trying to impress her…I think he was trying to share something meaningful to him.  She was probably trying to use Nate’s (surprisIng) popularity to build her brand ( as the kids say).  

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

I didn’t get the impression Nate brought the model to his favorite restaurant to show her off.  He seemed a bit clueless about what to do with her. He wasn’t trying to impress her…I think he was trying to share something meaningful to him. 

I thought he was doing that. Last time he came into the restaurant wearing all his West Ham gear and kind of bragging about how he was buying lunch for the coaching staff that work for him. Jade wasn't impressed at all by that, so the next time he comes back and instead of just introducing the woman he was with as his date he made a specific point of telling Jade that she was Anastasia the model (did he say famous model?). That to me sounds like the first situation didn't get him any attention so he did something he thought was more impressive.

[Schweedie]

7 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

I didn’t get the impression Nate brought the model to his favorite restaurant to show her off.  He seemed a bit clueless about what to do with her. He wasn’t trying to impress her…I think he was trying to share something meaningful to him.

 

25 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I thought he was doing that. Last time he came into the restaurant wearing all his West Ham gear and kind of bragging about how he was buying lunch for the coaching staff that work for him. Jade wasn't impressed at all by that, so the next time he comes back and instead of just introducing the woman he was with as his date he made a specific point of telling Jade that she was Anastasia the model (did he say famous model?). That to me sounds like the first situation didn't get him any attention so he did something he thought was more impressive.

I think it was kind of both. Nate wants to be either liked or admired by everyone and Jade has completely refused to do either so far, and he definitely seemed to think she would at least be impressed by his famous hot date this time - but to me he also seemed sincere when he said to Anastasia that this place was special to him because of its history in his family.

When Jade teased him for calling the baklava divine and Nate said he apparently turns into his grandmother when he tries to impress someone, I think that was the first time in a long time we've heard him owning up to saying something silly and making fun of himself. It was nice, I thought.

[paramitch]

This is really making me sad. A kind-of, sort-of, rant ahead!

But I love this show, and this episode really alarmed me, because here we are five episodes in, and this was... yikes. 

Not horrible, but not good, either. And incredibly uneven and sloppy.

Let me count the ways:

Ted's son bullied someone at school. This is awful, and Ted is rightfully very concerned. But all we get is an impending anxiety attack and then a cutesy talk with Ted's insufferable kid a day later (?) where he apologizes and then says he rapped his apology to the child he bullied in front of the entire class. (Like, seriously? How does this help the victim? Wouldn't the victim have possibly felt even MORE called out or bullied?)

Meanwhile, what the hell? Isn't the concerning point the fact that Ted's child BULLIED someone? Shouldn't we have seen Ted get those details and react to them? And then seen Ted's talk with his son about WHY he did it? And why DID he do it? I'm assuming he's acting out over his parents' divorce and maybe Ted's absence, or he could even be reacting to Ted's apparent "weakness" -- his kindness. But nothing. As with everything else -- as with Roy and Keeley's breakup, as with Ted's coaching this season, as with Keeley's job, we get the situation then outcome and skip the actual moments.

Meanwhile, as far as Ted's coaching, this season is just utterly embarrassing on that front. We saw more effort from Ted to actually coach in season 1, for God's sakes, and Ted barely knew what soccer was at that point.

Then we got all that stuff in the office like Trent was (adorably) going to offer some genuine tactical help, but then it seemed like it wasn't that smart or unique after all. I mean, what was the point of that scene? The monkey imitations were super-cute, though.

Then the Keeley/Jack stuff -- ack. Look, I actually liked the confirmation that Keeley is bi, but again, this show is just utterly fucked up when it comes to work relationship dynamics. Jack isn't just Keeley's boss -- she owns her company! I mean, in this very episode we saw Keeley go white as a sheet when Jack fake-fired her! (Which was utterly artificial and nobody would present it that way.)

So there is just no way I can see for Keeley and Jack to have a relationship that is remotely equal in my eyes. I mean, I was sort of okay with Sam/Rebecca last season ONLY because I respect both characters so much as people, there was a huge divide between their jobs and accountability, and because I was absolutely certain that they would never, ever allow the relationship to affect their work in a harmful way. The fact that they are such innately good people and had scorching chemistry made me root for them anyway, but even then I was a little iffy (given the age differences, although I am guardedly okay given Sam's maturity as a person).

Meanwhile, Rebecca is fleeing from the sight of Ted and cannot seem to sit down with Ted and Beard even for 15 minutes to talk about strategy, which she has every right to do. Rebecca can adore Ted as a friend, care about him, and work with him -- and she can STILL have every right to ask him to be accountable for his coaching and his team's performance given one of the best players in the sport on their team and they're still losing embarrassingly badly. 

Meanwhile, as with Ted, Keeley isn't shown to be doing any actual work this season, she's totally separate from everyone, and I just hate it. I want to see Keeley interact with the club, with Rebecca, with Roy, even with Jamie. (And she's visibly devastated over losing Roy suddenly? Then why did she break up?! Why not fight for the relationship?) Keeley was more believable as a publicist in season 1 than she is now.

Then we get the weird scene with Nate at that awful little restaurant he pathetically cannot stop going to, desperate for approval, and I guess it's supposed to seem like a win that Jade the Icy Hostess sat down to share his meal, but why? Jade has been a cold, unnecessarily cruel bully to Nate ever since we first met her, even pointedly treating his parents like shit just because she had power and he didn't (even if his horrible father deserved it). So no, I don't want them to get together, and no, I don't really like the message behind it. I am glad to see Nathan still has the visible remnants of a soul, at least.

There is still a lot of charm in the show, but this episode felt like they filmed an hour and then cut 25 minutes out of it.

My gut says they are setting Ted up to quit, leaving everyone sadder but kinder and wiser. That the team will do however they do (probably better than we expect, maybe even win it all), but Ted will realize he needs to go back home to be a father to his horrible son while masochistically allowing his ex-wife to continue to be needlessly "nicey/cruel" to him. Honestly, I would much rather watch Ted coach the crap out of this team even if they lose.

But meanwhile, the show is so uneven right now and it has changed palpably -- it's now not "let's all try to be kind," but rather, "nobody is allowed to be tough, ever, because that would be mean!"

This whole gang needs Dr. Sharon and it needs her bad.

[AD55]

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

This is really making me sad. A kind-of, sort-of, rant ahead!

But I love this show, and this episode really alarmed me, because here we are five episodes in, and this was... yikes. 

Not horrible, but not good, either. And incredibly uneven and sloppy.

This whole gang needs Dr. Sharon and it needs her bad.

You had me at "Yikes"!

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

Yes, I saw a post on Tumblr about Jade that she wasn't being rude by British/European standards, but Americans are reading it as rude and/or racist, which I thought was an interesting take. I mean, it's an American show set in Britain, so I'm curious how they would like her to be read as a character, especially in light of the fact that she turns nice after Nate gets dumped at the window table (that she's never wanted him to have?).

18 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am American and don't think Jade was being rude. Before Nate was an ass, the window table was not Jade's call but management's, is what I thought. After he became an ass, I assumed the issue was he was trying to impress her with his status, and she did not care he was locally famous.

Another American here who did not think race had anything to do with Jade's disdain of Nate. There are plenty of hot guys with dark complexions; Nate is not one of them.

But I had forgotten about this:

11 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I love Jade, but I don’t mind calling her out for being a snob.  The first time they met she specifically told Nate to bring Roy with him, and she’d give Roy the table.  I love how completely unimpressed she is about seemingly everyone.  My eyes rolled when she turned nice after Nate’s date ditched him.

So, yeah, Jade might be snobby, but is it a race thing? I don't think we have enough of a sample size of Jade's dates to judge.
And now that she's interest in Nate, I think that sort of negates any ideas of racism WRT Jade's preferences.

Both Roy and Nate can sure be d!cks.
Maybe that's Jade's type?

Edited April 15, 2023 by shapeshifter

[scenicbyway]

I thought this episode showed a lot of growth for the characters.

Ted can cope with his panic attacks and calm himself.  He’s back to giving “Ted” speeches again.  He was also the only guy in the office who didn’t shrink away from Rebecca when she yelled at them.

The psychic’s predictions are causing Rebecca to examine herself and her loneliness.  I think the matchbook and the nining armor references are meant for her to see why Sam and the other guy didn’t work out.

Keeley’s story really needs to connect to the team and/or Rebecca to be relevant and at the moment it isn’t. It’s also odd that we aren’t seeing Roy’s niece, Roy seems to have faded into the background other than his disturbing bullying payback and training Jamie.

Speaking of Jamie, all this extra training but the team was still losing. We’re supposed to believe with Zava gone Jamie will step up miraculously? Shouldn’t he have been before?

As for the future, to me it’s obvious they are setting up a Ted/Rebecca story that won’t be confirmed until the last moments of the series. Rebecca will become a stepmother to Henry and Ted and Rebecca will have each other and no longer be lonely.

 

[Crs97]

59 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

12 hours ago, Crs97 said:

 

So, yeah, Jade might be snobby, but is it a race thing? I don't think we have enough of a sample size of Jade's dates to judge.
And now that she's interest in Nate, I think that sort of negates any ideas of racism WRT Jade's preferences.

Both Roy and Nate can sure be d!cks.
Maybe that's Jade's type?

When she said it, I thought it wasn’t about race, but popularity.  Everyone knows Roy.  No one knows Nate.

[meep.meep]

23 hours ago, Dobian said:

That's where I recognized her!  I couldn't put my finger on it.  Yes, her For All Mankind role is a whole lot meatier than this glorified cameo.

Jody Balfour also played Jackie Kennedy on The Crown.  She's a good actress.

The actress who plays Jade the restaurant hostess is not.  She relies on staring blankly ahead with no expression.  She played the caterer on Love Actually.

[ML89]

I hate psychic plots and women only feeling fulfilled with kids plots, so both in one is even more annoying. I was thrilled we didn’t find out Rebecca was sick- I had a bad feeling…

Putting aside how bad The fallout will be from Keely and Jack hooking up, worse was them drinking Shandy’s vodka when Shandy had not only made that melodramatic exit but came back to leave that lamb - are they crazy? (also, I stg I just saw some show that mentioned that a lamb’s poop smells even more awful when they’re very small but I can’t remember what it was, except it wasn’t All Creatures Great and Small!)

Glad Zava is gone. I was with Trent on his reaction to Roy’s speech.

[Blakeston]

I don't think that Jade's attitude toward Nate is just attributable to her being British/European.

There was absolutely no reason for her to say she needed to ask the manager before giving Nate the table by the window. The manager thinks the sun shines out of Nate's ass, to the point that he lets him eat for free, and she very well knew it.

[Girl in a Cardigan]

  Pulling this from the Speculation thread:

6 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

If anything this last episode showed us how alone Rebecca is and that she might be willing to move. No emergency contact? Really? She’s lived there her whole life. If she has nothing keeping her in England she might follow Ted.

I thought that was such a weird beat. I mean, sure, she doesn't have a husband anymore (though the thought Rupert actually holding her hand in a doctor's waiting room for anything is ludicrous), but she has her mom and Sassy at the very least. They could have even thrown the TedBecca folx a bone and had her put down Ted since they see each other every day.

[pennben]

So, to sum up:

1.  Ted's ex, in an inappropriate relationship.
2   Rebecca, in an inappropriate relationship last season w/employee.
3.  Keeley, in an inappropriate relationship this season w/female investor.
4.  Nate, piece of shit, gets romcom music for getting the 'reluctant hostess' in a return to the restaurant.
5.   Roy/Jamie in delightful bromance, if you will.

Hmmmm, sensing a pattern here.....

Perhaps there will be a satisfying ending to the show, but boy howdy, I don't care anymore. Makes me sad.

Edited April 16, 2023 by pennben

[debraran]

21 hours ago, Schweedie said:

 

I think it was kind of both. Nate wants to be either liked or admired by everyone and Jade has completely refused to do either so far, and he definitely seemed to think she would at least be impressed by his famous hot date this time - but to me he also seemed sincere when he said to Anastasia that this place was special to him because of its history in his family.

When Jade teased him for calling the baklava divine and Nate said he apparently turns into his grandmother when he tries to impress someone, I think that was the first time in a long time we've heard him owning up to saying something silly and making fun of himself. It was nice, I thought.

I liked how he owned why he loved the place, made it seem the model was "clueless" which she was of course and didn't start stuttering about going somewhere else. Let her leave, she got her photo op. I think the hostess always liked him but didn't want too and when she overheard conversations, softened. Maybe Nate needed that to be himself with her which we saw later.

[Abra]

The team isn't doing well because they haven't been trained to be a team since Zava came on board. They were trained to do whatever needed to be done to help Zava score. Now that Ted's had a moment where he knows can handle a panic attack and he's speaking up about less happy feelings and gave his rousing speech this episode, hopefully we're moving forward in getting our boys back to winning shape together.

I don't like the idea of an easy Nate redemption arc. I know this is a feel good show but his bad behavior is so toxic across multiple levels that I'm concerned that it's just going to be baklava with Jade and realizing Rupert's a dick and then he's all apologetic to Ted and everything's forgiven.

Keeley and Jack is not a good look given their work everything. Hopefully it can be just a one-time fling and they handle it maturely and move on, because - like Sam and Rebecca (for more than one reason there) - it's inappropriate.

The woman who plays Jade was not in Love, Actually - what in the world? She had to have been born in the 90s.

I want all the good things for Colin and his coming out. I saw a Tumblr post referring back to Nate's horrid comments in season 2 about how Colin doesn't inspire or move anyone. I don't think that will be the case this season.

[Juneau Gal]

On 4/15/2023 at 5:02 AM, paramitch said:

My gut says they are setting Ted up to quit, leaving everyone sadder but kinder and wiser. That the team will do however they do (probably better than we expect, maybe even win it all), but Ted will realize he needs to go back home to be a father to his horrible son while masochistically allowing his ex-wife to continue to be needlessly "nicey/cruel" to him. Honestly, I would much rather watch Ted coach the crap out of this team even if they lose.

But meanwhile, the show is so uneven right now and it has changed palpably -- it's now not "let's all try to be kind," but rather, "nobody is allowed to be tough, ever, because that would be mean!"

This whole gang needs Dr. Sharon and it needs her bad.

Brava! Love your entire post and could not agree more. Especially love the above section and your description of Michelle as nicey/cruel because that’s it exactly. Since the start with that character the actress has played her with combo harried/faux compassionate look on her face and it’s been all about HER needs. I’ve never felt she had one iota of true concern for Ted. 
Sadly, I predict you are correct in how the end will play out and what an uncreative, disappointing wrap up that will be. 

[Sailorgirl26]

20 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Jody Balfour also played Jackie Kennedy on The Crown.  She's a good actress.

The actress who plays Jade the restaurant hostess is not.  She relies on staring blankly ahead with no expression.  She played the caterer on Love Actually.

The movie? Love Actually was 20 years ago. Julia Davis played the caterer in Love Actually and was born in 1966, making her 57 years old. Definitely not the same actress, Edyta Budnik, playing Jade. 

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Abra said:

The team isn't doing well because they haven't been trained to be a team since Zava came on board. They were trained to do whatever needed to be done to help Zava score. Now that Ted's had a moment where he knows can handle a panic attack and he's speaking up about less happy feelings and gave his rousing speech this episode, hopefully we're moving forward in getting our boys back to winning shape together

I was really surprised that with all the talk in this episode about the different lineup options, no one ever considered benching Zava. I mean it's great that he scores a couple of goals a game but if the whole team is relying on him and not doing anything then who cares. And it would have been such a Ted move to bench the star, to force everyone else to step up.

3 hours ago, Abra said:

don't like the idea of an easy Nate redemption arc. I know this is a feel good show but his bad behavior is so toxic across multiple levels that I'm concerned that it's just going to be baklava with Jade and realizing Rupert's a dick and then he's all apologetic to Ted and everything's forgiven.

I hope we don't see that as well. I mentioned last episode how the scene with Ted telling his ex-wife how he felt was interesting. He basically said I am upset you are dating our therapist, but we have a son together and have to find a way to have a relationship where we can be around each other. But there is no reason that Ted and Nate need to have any kind of relationship going forward. So if Nate does have some kind of realization and apologizes I hope Ted just says thank you, shakes his hand and walks away.

[Crs97]

After their thoughtful depiction of mental health I refuse to believe they will air a storyline that boils down to “put up with toxic behavior long enough and they might change.”

[SnarkShark]

To be fair, Jack is her investor, not her boss.  Still it's likely not the best idea.

I'll admit I didn't see it coming.  Jack was FAR too interesting character to be a one-off, but I assumed "mentor".

Zava leaving seemed obvious.  Rebecca not actually being capable of biological children seemed obvious too.  

Jamie's growth has been well played. 

Jade coming around on Nate was another element I didn't predict.

[Kabota]

On 4/15/2023 at 11:05 AM, scenicbyway said:

ISpeaking of Jamie, all this extra training but the team was still losing. We’re supposed to believe with Zava gone Jamie will step up miraculously? Shouldn’t he have been before?

 

With the team instructed to feed Zava, and he not open to sharing opportunities, the players were, as Roy said, just standing around watching him play. Totally, un-Tedlike mentality, but he's distracted, and everyone seems to have lost the ability to make logical decisions. They were winning at first, but as everyone began to get more complacent, even Zava couldn't carry the team.

At first it came across as a little ridiculous, especially given the montage of Zava's scoring, to hear Jamie say he wants to be better than him. Like with just some extra practice, the average player can become the next Patrick Mahomes. But the more I thought about it, they have from the beginning tagged Jamie as a special talent. Trained up by Man City, he's referred to by Ted as probably the best athlete he's ever coached and "the supposed franchise player." We hear the announcers say he didn't miss a penalty kick last season. He's come across as one of those players who maybe was underachieving because he didn't want/have to work hard and was distracted by the trappings of sport/fame.

We've seen the Lasso Way would be to have everyone working together, sharing the load, and taking responsibility for their position. If Jamie can elevate his game but create opportunities for others on the pitch, it would be the opposite of the gameplan with Zava. Ultimately, tight teamwork, plus an elite talent or two, should make Richmond competitive again. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kabota

[Schweedie]

5 hours ago, Kabota said:

With the team instructed to feed Zava, and he not open to sharing opportunities, the players were, as Roy said, just standing around watching him play. Totally, un-Tedlike mentality, but he's distracted, and everyone seems to have lost the ability to make logical decisions. They were winning at first, but as everyone began to get more complacent, even Zava couldn't carry the team.

At first it came across as a little ridiculous, especially given the montage of Zava's scoring, to hear Jamie say he wants to be better than him. Like with just some extra practice, the average player can become the next Patrick Mahomes. But the more I thought about it, they have from the beginning tagged Jamie as a special talent. Trained up by Man City, he's referred to by Ted as probably the best athlete he's ever coached and "the supposed franchise player." We hear the announcers say he didn't miss a penalty kick last season. He's come across as one of those players who maybe was underachieving because he didn't want/have to work hard and was distracted by the trappings of sport/fame.

Nicely summed up!

And yeah - we saw Jamie do a bicycle kick (like one the goals Zava scored) in the very first episode. I think he's definitely always been meant to to be seen as a special talent who's got the potential to reach the top level. And I think he's always had the drive to be the best, but his first time around at Richmond his selfishness and petulance got in the way of getting there, and after he came back he may have gotten a little complacent - they were playing in the Championship and being the best there wouldn't have been THAT hard for someone like him, so maybe he eased on the gas a bit. Zava was the push he needed to be motivated to take it to that next level.

(I do think that having him and Roy focus on purely physical stuff is unlikely, though, it would've made much more sense for them to focus on stuff like intricate footwork drills, studying videos to learn to read the game better, etc. But that probably would make for as interesting watching.)

Richmond playing as a team, instead of their tactics just being "get the ball to Zava" will make them much better. When we saw Jamie take that one shot at the goal that didn't go in, Zava threw a little fit that he was supposed to pass to him. I don't think there's been *room* for Jamie to step up until now. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Greyhounds (hopefully) pull it together. The football aspect of the show was why I started watching and it's still my favourite part.

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

To be fair, Jack is her investor, not her boss.  Still it's likely not the best idea.

When put into words like that (Jack is Keeley’s investor) it almost sounds like sex for hire. That was clearly not what happened, but on paper it would be hard to disprove.…   
Just wondering if that’s where this is going…

[Trillium]

31 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

When put into words like that (Jack is Keeley’s investor) it almost sounds like sex for hire. That was clearly not what happened, but on paper it would be hard to disprove.…   
Just wondering if that’s where this is going…

Not sure where it’s going but it’s going to come out and I can’t imagine Barbra is going to be all “awwww isn’t that cute” about it. She’s just warming up to Keeley and this will just really undermine her credibility with someone like Barbra. And this is why I fucking hate this story line. Last season Keeley was always smart, competent, had her stuff together. Barbra doesn’t know that person. 
 

I understand they are trying to show Keeley is struggling with the breakup and her new job but I feel that they could have shown her struggling yet still the person she used to be.

[DEL901]

Both Roy and Keeley both need to sit down with Dr Sharon.  He because he preemptively broke up with the woman he loves before she could dump him.  And she to deal with her feelings of inadequacy over her new role and also to understand having sex with Jack is a conflict and if this blows up, it is Keely’s career at risk.  

[lovinbob]

On 4/15/2023 at 11:05 AM, scenicbyway said:

As for the future, to me it’s obvious they are setting up a Ted/Rebecca story that won’t be confirmed until the last moments of the series. Rebecca will become a stepmother to Henry and Ted and Rebecca will have each other and no longer be lonely.

I can't imagine Rebecca moving to the U.S. She is a total badass and power player in England. And I can't imagine Ted permanently leaving his son. 

45 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Both Roy and Keeley both need to sit down with Dr Sharon.  

Speaking of Dr. Sharon, have we seen Ted talk to her about Michelle dating her therapist? I would love to see Dr. Sharon's reaction to that. 

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, lovinbob said:

Speaking of Dr. Sharon, have we seen Ted talk to her about Michelle dating her therapist? I would love to see Dr. Sharon's reaction to that. 

The scene started at the middle of it and played for laughs:

”He was always so condescending in the way he talked to me.”

”Ted, our time is up.”

”Yep.  He’d say that but it was the way he said it - like [repeats line in condescending way].”

”No, Ted, I’m saying our time is up.”  And then she hung up on him.

[Johnny Dollar]

While Jack may not technically be Keely’s boss, as a venture capital investor she most likely owns more than half of the company and has significant management influence, as evidenced by essentially forcing Barb on Keely as the CFO. 

[paramitch]

I rewatched this episode and wasn't quite as "yikes," admittedly. It's still Ted Lasso, and there's still a lot of lovely stuff here. Ted's final reminder to the team that "believe" is more than a sign hit me more powerfully here the second time.

But it still feels a little sloppy and disconnected (like the characters this season, too -- Rebecca, Keeley, Ted, and Roy all so isolated).

I did love the realization that Trent Krim has a rainbow mug! Which makes me hope he will not out Colin but will protect or help him in some way.

On 4/15/2023 at 7:10 AM, AD55 said:

You had me at "Yikes"!

(sheepish) I still think it's good TV. But I think it has... issues this season.

On 4/15/2023 at 8:01 AM, shapeshifter said:

Both Roy and Nate can sure be d!cks.
Maybe that's Jade's type?

I don't think Jade is or ever was interested in Roy; she said those things to be cruel to Nate. Just because she could (I can't stand her).

Meanwhile, while Roy can be a grumpy asshole, he is never, ever purposely unkind or hurtful, whereas that is how Nate makes himself feel bigger than he is. I do believe that Nate regrets doing those things, but it's definitely ugly and toxic behavior.

On 4/15/2023 at 8:05 AM, scenicbyway said:

The psychic’s predictions are causing Rebecca to examine herself and her loneliness.  I think the matchbook and the nining armor references are meant for her to see why Sam and the other guy didn’t work out.

Keeley’s story really needs to connect to the team and/or Rebecca to be relevant and at the moment it isn’t. It’s also odd that we aren’t seeing Roy’s niece, Roy seems to have faded into the background other than his disturbing bullying payback and training Jamie.

As for the future, to me it’s obvious they are setting up a Ted/Rebecca story that won’t be confirmed until the last moments of the series. Rebecca will become a stepmother to Henry and Ted and Rebecca will have each other and no longer be lonely.

I wish the psychic plot wasn't so obviously real, where we now all watch for the different beats to play out for Rebecca. It feels facile and cheap to me, like lazy writing.

I liked Roy's bullying rant because it is a clear indication too me that Roy was bullied as a kid and it still hurts him. It also makes sense given his increasingly fatherly role toward Jamie (ever since their hug last season after Jamie's horrible father's confrontation).

As far as your last prediction, while I respect all the Ted/Rebecca shippers out there, my reaction to that is "Oh God please no." I love Ted and Rebecca's friendship, and how it is a deep and abiding platonic friendship. Turning it into a romance I feel would really harm the foundation of the show.

On 4/15/2023 at 8:01 PM, Blakeston said:

There was absolutely no reason for her to say she needed to ask the manager before giving Nate the table by the window. The manager thinks the sun shines out of Nate's ass, to the point that he lets him eat for free, and she very well knew it.

Exactly. She did it to be cruel, to show Nate how small she can make him feel, which is what she has always done. Just like she did it last season just to be snide and rude to his parents by not offering them the clearly open window table despite the reservation and their fricking anniversary. (I hate Nate's father, who is responsible for much of the self-hate we see in Nate, but that was still awful to do to them.)

On 4/15/2023 at 10:01 PM, Girl in a Cardigan said:

I thought that was such a weird beat. I mean, sure, she doesn't have a husband anymore (though the thought Rupert actually holding her hand in a doctor's waiting room for anything is ludicrous), but she has her mom and Sassy at the very least. They could have even thrown the TedBecca folx a bone and had her put down Ted since they see each other every day.

I liked it in isolation -- Rebecca is close to Ted but he is still more of a "work friend" in some ways. I agree she could/should have put Sassy or Keeley down. But then again, I thought it was an interesting and deliberate note that she and Keeley keep missing each other and just texting, etc. Everyone is so lonely this season.

On 4/15/2023 at 10:09 PM, pennben said:

So, to sum up:

1.  Ted's ex, in an inappropriate relationship.
2   Rebecca, in an inappropriate relationship last season w/employee.
3.  Keeley, in an inappropriate relationship this season w/female investor.
4.  Nate, piece of shit, gets romcom music for getting the 'reluctant hostess' in a return to the restaurant.
5.   Roy/Jamie in delightful bromance, if you will.

Hmmmm, sensing a pattern here.....

Perhaps there will be a satisfying ending to the show, but boy howdy, I don't care anymore. Makes me sad.

I agree with you on 1-4, but I'm confused on #5? I love Roy and Jamie's friendship and have adored how believably it has evolved. Roy has gone from being the guy who thought he had nothing but the work in season 1 (and understandably hating Jamie as an arrogant blowhard) to being a sweet, silent, grumpy, surrogate Dad to Jamie, and I am here for it. Their friendship is one of my favorites on the show and I don't think it's inappropriate at all. I especially love the growth we've seen in Jamie, and how he is more open with his admiration and care for Roy, while Roy is still more about actions than words.

On 4/16/2023 at 8:04 AM, Abra said:

The team isn't doing well because they haven't been trained to be a team since Zava came on board. They were trained to do whatever needed to be done to help Zava score. Now that Ted's had a moment where he knows can handle a panic attack and he's speaking up about less happy feelings and gave his rousing speech this episode, hopefully we're moving forward in getting our boys back to winning shape together.

I want all the good things for Colin and his coming out. I saw a Tumblr post referring back to Nate's horrid comments in season 2 about how Colin doesn't inspire or move anyone. I don't think that will be the case this season.

Great point -- I hope we're building to Ted actually doing some coaching. Some visibly, believably good coaching. The final speech here was more of a start than I thought, when I rewatched.

I feel similarly on Colin, and care so much for him. I really don't want him outed or treated cruelly. I hope/think Ted, the team, and (hopefully) Trent Krim will have his back.

On 4/16/2023 at 8:13 AM, Juneau Gal said:

Especially love the above section and your description of Michelle as nicey/cruel because that’s it exactly. Since the start with that character the actress has played her with combo harried/faux compassionate look on her face and it’s been all about HER needs. I’ve never felt she had one iota of true concern for Ted. 
Sadly, I predict you are correct in how the end will play out and what an uncreative, disappointing wrap up that will be. 

Thank you so much! I do feel bad for the actress who plays Michelle, Ted's wife (I loved her on "Better Off Ted" -- she seems to get cast on shows with Teds) because her character is in a total lose/lose situation. First she dumps sweet Ted for no reason, now she's hooking up with their marriage counselor. Not cool.

I still hope the show continues on more of an upswing, I was just so frustrated on my first watch of this episode -- especially of how the bullying by Ted's son was handled as a cutesy plot point and not with even a single discussion with Ted on what happened (until it was all over and we just get that the kid apologized in a rap for the class, which was just a little too twee for me).

On 4/16/2023 at 11:13 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I was really surprised that with all the talk in this episode about the different lineup options, no one ever considered benching Zava. I mean it's great that he scores a couple of goals a game but if the whole team is relying on him and not doing anything then who cares. And it would have been such a Ted move to bench the star, to force everyone else to step up.

Great observation, and I was hoping for that too. The Ted from season 1 would 100% have benched Zava and pushed for a more cohesive team as a whole.

On 4/16/2023 at 11:16 AM, Crs97 said:

After their thoughtful depiction of mental health I refuse to believe they will air a storyline that boils down to “put up with toxic behavior long enough and they might change.”

Which seems to be what we're getting with Nate/Jade, and I am not here for it at all. She has consistently behaved like a needlessly petty, cruel asshole over Nate (who, while an asshole himself) politely requested a table for his parents -- and she's STILL doing it.

Meanwhile, if they do get together, not only is she still a terrible person, but it will feel like Nate (another terrible person) is getting her as some kind of reward? Ugh. I hate it.

On 4/16/2023 at 3:06 PM, SnarkShark said:

To be fair, Jack is her investor, not her boss.  Still it's likely not the best idea.

Jack owns Keeley's company, so to me Jack is clearly her boss. Further, Jack not only has people in place (like Barbara) to oversee Keeley's activities, she also fake-fired Keeley in this episode -- and it was clear that a startled Keeley believed that was within the realm of possibility. She then ordered Keeley to fire Shandy (which, to be fair, I was totally on board with).

The two of them together romantically is spectacularly inappropriate.

On 4/16/2023 at 5:12 PM, Kabota said:

We've seen the Lasso Way would be to have everyone working together, sharing the load, and taking responsibility for their position. If Jamie can elevate his game but create opportunities for others on the pitch, it would be the opposite of the gameplan with Zava. Ultimately, tight teamwork, plus an elite talent or two, should make Richmond competitive again. 

I would love this and it's definitely what I hope for.

On 4/17/2023 at 7:40 AM, Trillium said:

Not sure where it’s going but it’s going to come out and I can’t imagine Barbra is going to be all “awwww isn’t that cute” about it. She’s just warming up to Keeley and this will just really undermine her credibility with someone like Barbra. And this is why I fucking hate this story line. Last season Keeley was always smart, competent, had her stuff together. Barbra doesn’t know that person. 

I understand they are trying to show Keeley is struggling with the breakup and her new job but I feel that they could have shown her struggling yet still the person she used to be.

I 100% agree. I'm so irritated with how Keeley is written this season. She's gone from capable and dedicated to flighty and unprofessional (the entire Shandy subplot is absurd), there is no way that office or those people would be Keeley's PR firm (which would be bright, vivid, outgoing, and super-cool).

It's like the 100 snowglobes in Barbara's office. There's no subtlety to Keeley's storyline this season.

On 4/17/2023 at 8:13 AM, DEL901 said:

Both Roy and Keeley both need to sit down with Dr Sharon.  He because he preemptively broke up with the woman he loves before she could dump him.  And she to deal with her feelings of inadequacy over her new role and also to understand having sex with Jack is a conflict and if this blows up, it is Keely’s career at risk.  

They do! And I really miss Dr. Sharon, darn it. 

16 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

While Jack may not technically be Keely’s boss, as a venture capital investor she most likely owns more than half of the company and has significant management influence, as evidenced by essentially forcing Barb on Keely as the CFO. 

Yeah, I think it was said openly that she is the majority or even sole investor in Keeley's firm and financed the whole thing.

Barb is essentially Jack's watchdog on Keeley, and was hired by Jack. Who I would argue is therefore absolutely Keeley's boss. The two of them together romantically is just so problematic from an ethical and power standpoint.

Keeley/Jack is honestly way worse than Rebecca/Sam for me, because at least with those two, they had very specific boundaries and ethics in place -- I believed 100% that they would never allow their personal relationship to poison their work, and that was visible. That is such a contrast to Jack fake-firing Keeley here -- already demonstrating her power over Keeley and her entire office (although I get that she wasn't meaning to be malicious).

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

Great observation, and I was hoping for that too. The Ted from season 1 would 100% have benched Zava and pushed for a more cohesive team as a whole.

I don't really know how substitutions work in soccer but that might have made a better story. Ted benches Zava at half time after he has scored a couple of goals (but the team is still losing) then he walks off the field and they find out he has decided to retire.

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

Jack owns Keeley's company, so to me Jack is clearly her boss. Further, Jack not only has people in place (like Barbara) to oversee Keeley's activities, she also fake-fired Keeley in this episode -- and it was clear that a startled Keeley believed that was within the realm of possibility. She then ordered Keeley to fire Shandy (which, to be fair, I was totally on board with).

It would be helpful to know for sure how much of the company Jack owns. It has been awhile since I have watched any Dragon's Den or Shark Tank episodes, but there is no KJPR without KJ so she must own some of the company. Plus she does all the work so is it a 50/50 thing or does Jack own more?

 

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

Keeley/Jack is honestly way worse than Rebecca/Sam for me, because at least with those two, they had very specific boundaries and ethics in place -- I believed 100% that they would never allow their personal relationship to poison their work,

See I think that Sam/Rebecca is worse. Just because if she is putting her team 1st she would regularly have to consider trading him, or perhaps trading someone else instead of him. So she has a lot of power over him and there is a big potential conflict. With Keeley like I said there is no KJPR without her and without knowing how much of the firm she owns it is hard to see it as bad.

[Johnny Dollar]

KJPR wouldn’t exist without KJ, but without Jack’s money it would not have the fancy offices and staff or the big name clients. Image counts in public relations, particularly for smaller “boutique” firms trying to make a name for themselves. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Johnny Dollar

[DearEvette]

I was on the struggle bus with this episode. It took me over a week to finish it. 

The only thing I liked about it was the cute goat, Higgins' hilariously round about convo with Rebecca about maybe, possibly they ought to start thinking about the idea of thinking about replacing their manager, Dani crying when Zava announced his retirement,and Ted's speech.

But overall this ep was lackluster and dreary.

The Shandy stuff was cliche and not funny.  And made Keeley look even more incompetent than she's already seemed.

I could see the Jack stuff coming a mile away.  I would be on board if I wasn;t such a hardcore Keeley and Roy shipper or if they'd given us more time to get to know about Jack to even care.  As is it I just rolled my eyes.

The Rebecca/pychic storyline is obviously going to have some payoff. Problem is the road to get there isn't one of anticipation just impatience.

I still don't feel sorry for Nate.  And suddenly making Jade nice to him feels like a cheat and unconvincing.

And finally, the bully storyline with Henry felt like a little nothing just to give Ted something to do.  What was even the point?  And maybe that is the entire problem.  Ted has felt sidelined so much that the show feels off kilter.

I hope this early part was just them clumsily setting up pins that will be spectacularly knocked down later.

 

[Absurda]

Here's my take with Jade.  The window table is a status symbol and Nate's obsession with getting the table shows his obsession with status.  Every time he comes into the restaurant he's trying to be a big shot and is trying to impress people, including Jade.  Jade just isn't impressed.  I think she'd act the same way for any actual big shots who come into the restaurant; she's just not a fan-girl groupie.

When she heard Nate talking sincerely about what the restaurant means to him and that he wasn't buying into the model's superficial, pretentious opinions about it, Jade got to see a genuine Nate.  That's what made her start being nice to him.

[Anela]

I could see why Rebecca was upset with the psychic, if she wanted children, then didn’t have them, only for her ex to run off and get another woman pregnant.  

Keeley and jack were predictable.  So was shandy.  I don’t know why she’d think it was okay to not only change an app entirely, but then start a new one to compete with the first.