S04.E01: The Munsters

[TexasGal]

Quote

As Kendall, Shiv and Roman hone their pitch for potential investors in Los Angeles, a call from Tom shifts the siblings’ focus; Greg’s uninvited plus one raises questions at Logan’s birthday party; Tom seeks assurances from Logan.

Airdate: 03.26.2023

[HC87]

Good to see this back......think it's going to be a strong season

Edited March 27, 2023 by HC87

[Jordan Baker]

Matthew Macfadyen was terrific in this episode. I mean, he's always great, but this might have been his best work yet.

[Kirkydee]

Was it just me, or did anybody else wanted this episode to pick up with Kendall floating in the pool?

[Toothbrush]

18 minutes ago, Kirkydee said:

Was it just me, or did anybody else wanted this episode to pick up with Kendall floating in the pool?

As manic as he was acting I wouldn’t have been surprised. I think the show ends with either Kendall’s or Logan’s death.

K,R,S picked up PGM for $10B; wasn’t the offer in S2 $26B? Do I have the numbers right? Nan’s “principles” sure cost her family a pretty penny. 

Willa is so over Connor. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Toothbrush

[thuganomics85]

Succession is back for one final season of betrayal, bickering, angry glares, and lots and lots of profanity filled tirades.  I wouldn't want it any other way!

So, it sounds like the Roy kids (well, not including Connor) spent the hiatus initially trying to form their own upstart company of "alternative news" and work from the ground up, but then they discover (thanks to Tom?  Is he playing both sides?) that Logan and Waystar are planning on buying out the Pierce's organization, so they end up making a play of their own.  And Nan approves it!  It kind of sounds like she might have even turned down more money if she stuck with Logan's offer, but I guess she hates him enough to really stick it to him.  Impressive!

Not sure how long it will last or if it will all backfire, but it was fun watching the Roy kids continue to actually be on the same page and manage to pull off something resembling a win.  Again, it will likely be short term, but seeing Logan clearly angry about being outmaneuvered was a sight to behold.  You see, you three!  Once you put aside all of your snarks, insults, and putdowns, you can actually be an effective team!

Cousin Greg has officially been promoted to "Honorary Kid"!  Well, not officially since he's the only one saying that, but who am I to question the man who considered suing Greenpeace?  Granted, if he keeps doing things like sexing up Logan's guest room or more of his Greg fuckery, Logan might literally toss him off Waystar Headquarters.  Was a little impressed though that he actually did answer Logan's roast request and went there with how his kids pretty much hate his ass.

Connor is so desperate to cling to his 1% in the polls that he is basically wanting to skimp on his and Willa's wedding.  Yeah, that's pretty much what I would have expected from him.  Hell, if they just elope, maybe he'll have enough funds to move that to 2%!  Or at least 1.5%...

Colin might be willing to cover manslaughter without blinking, but even he was unnerved over Logan actually trying to act human for once.  Seeing his attempted at being "friendly" was unsettling to be fair.

Sara Snook and Matthew Macfayden acted the hell out of their big scene.  Shiv and Tom are just so toxic in almost every way, and yet I strangely do feel sad for them.  I think there really is something resembling love there, but it will never make-up for everything bad about this couple.  But, again, I almost find it a bit tragic.

While I loved last season, I thought the complaints about it being in a bit of a holding pattern to be fair, but I do think this being the final season actually raises the stakes and I think some big stuff will no doubt be going down this time.  Can't wait!

[Guest]

That was a lot. Whew. 
So glad the show is back. 

Nan is so annoyingly self-righteous. Greg the Egg remains idiotic. 

[buttersister]

I've missed you, Show.

"ROMEY" started me out laughing, but not for long. Hell of a birthday, Logan. Look on the bright side, you saved $9.5B.

That script and those actors. Every time I think I want the theme song as my ringtone I realize I'd be nervous about every call.

[cardigirl]

Logan must be losing it, he would never have lost that bidding war last season. 
 Poor Tom. I will always root for him, because Shiv has treated him very badly. That pitiful "gave it a go" by both of them at the end, so sad. 
A  really big part of me wants to see Logan survive and continue winning. The kids drive me nuts. Well, I would like to see Roman win. I like him.

I thought Connor was trying to use their wedding as a means of getting free news coverage for his campaign. Make it a spectacle to get reported.I'll have to watch that bit again.

Glad the show is back!

[Toothbrush]

12 minutes ago, cardigirl said:The kids drive me nuts. Well, I would like to see Roman win. I like him.

I thought Connor was trying to use their wedding as a means of getting free news coverage for his campaign. Make it a spectacle to get reported.I'll have to watch that bit again.

Glad the show is back!

Roman is my favorite as well. That is exactly what Connor was trying to do. I mean, I know Willa’s in it for the money (you’ll still be rich right?), but that’s gotta hurt. 

[RedDelicious]

Am I the only one that thought Logan was going to stage impromptu nuptials??

For himself and Kerry that is.

[nb360]

Did Tom still have his ring on, but Shiv didn't?

[RedDelicious]

5 minutes ago, nb360 said:

Did Tom still have his ring on, but Shiv didn't?

Shiv was still wearing hers during the first phone call (regarding Naomi) but I’m not sure about later in the episode.

[aghst]

So in the last season, the "arrangement" between Tom and Shiv still comes into play, though maybe finally leading to the end of the marriage.

In season 1, Shiv referred to having a "shit happens" clause in her prenup so that if someone strikes her fancy, she doesn't have to give Tom a bigger payment than the prenup he signed would provide.

Now, she's admitting, indirectly, that Tom taking advantage of the arrangement is hurtful to her.  She didn't have a tinge of guilt when she was having an affair with her former colleague (the guy who worked for Gil) or when she had the fling with the actor she found irrisistable.

Of course the biggest hurt was the betrayal in Italy, Tom warning Logan what the kids were up to, carving out his slice of loyalty with Logan, who can only tell him now, months later, "if we're good, we're good."

OTOH, he basically tipped Shiv about Logan wanting to buy Pierce.  Not directly but enough so that the kids could figure it out.

Still she's sad about what appears to be the end of the marriage and finds a reason to stay at their apartment.  That thing has to have tons of bedrooms, so they really don't need to be in the same room.  Or one of them could go one of their other properties or some convenient hotel.

Inside the Episode, they said Shiv's greatest difficulty is that he now has more power relative to her -- though she can bid $10 billion with her brothers while Tom certainly can't be in that neighborhood money-wise.

I don't know, is Tom and Logan "good" with each other?  Tom offered to go to prison last season as the fall guy for the cruises scandal and then of course betrayed his wife.  So he's switched from being a patsy to Shiv to a patsy to Logan.

 

It does make sense for them to go after Pierce but certainly a "win" over dad is a big motivation, at least for Shiv and Kendall.  Roman is all naughty with Gerri and cruel to underlings.  He's certainly most like Logan, who views people as pygmies or economic units, forming markets for him to exploit -- contrast that to Nan Pierce who professes values and dignity, who hates the negotiations about money, yet she keeps asking for more, because some in the family have had difficult years recently.

Logan loved beating the kids in Tuscany, called them fucking pedestrians.  But it's his birthday and he wouldn't mind talking to them, according to Kerry.  So lonely, he goes for a walk with Colin and they dine at a local restaurant and Logan plays at having an earnest conversation with his employee, as if they were friends.  He asks existential questions, though he's already decided for himself there's no afterlife.

He wants to keep ATN at all costs, even if he sells off the rest of Waystar to Mattson -- but I thought the point of the deal was that Gojo needed content and ATN is probably the most lucrative media property in Waystar.  

Logan doesn't like some late night anchor, calls the president of ATN News to get rid of him.  Hey, he has to throw his hate at someone since the kids aren't around!

 

 

 

 

[Irlandesa]

43 minutes ago, aghst said:

He wants to keep ATN at all costs, even if he sells off the rest of Waystar to Mattson -- but I thought the point of the deal was that Gojo needed content and ATN is probably the most lucrative media property in Waystar.

That's what I thought too but then I was confused he went back to wanting to buy Pierce. I couldn't tell if it was to replace ATN or if he was keeping the news division in the sale---but, as you said, content was GoJo's weakness.

I watched a lot of Succession this past week.  That leads to things being both muddled (hard to catch everything with so much fast dialogue so many hours in a row) and clear.  The business stuff is a bit muddled.  The relationship dynamics are a bit more clear. I think Shiv realizing she has lost control over Tom with the S3 betrayal and then the decision to divorce is the most I've ever seen Shiv appear to have deep feelings about/for him. I don't know if it's love or think it's love but I certainly get the feeling of loss. 

I am glad the show is back.  I didn't like the first five episodes so I stopped watching for a while but I finally caught up knowing that this is the last season.  I still don't love it as much as others but I am curious to see how it lands.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Blakeston]

My favorite part was Nan talking about how horrible and disgusting the bidding war was, with a big smile on her face.

I always thought the Pierce company was supposed to be a stand-in for CNN, but Roman mentioned newspapers, so maybe they're supposed to be the New York Times? The thought of one of Rupert Murdoch's companies acquiring either CNN or the Times would be pretty terrifying. I'm not sure how much better Pierce will fare under the Roy children, though.

Greg doesn't seem to have learned much. Bringing that hopelessly naive date was a bad move. And he completely trusted that Tom had his best interests at heart when Tom told him to fess up to Logan about the sex.

It turned out that Logan did spend his night poring over footage, but it wasn't footage from his spy cameras, it was ATN. Without being able to throw his power around at Pierce, Logan had to exert control over a company he already owned. I hope this means we'll see a lot more of Jeannie Berlin.

 

 

[dmc]

Would like me to try to make love to you?

Who wants to smell Greg’s finger?

Marcia is shopping in Milan FOREVER 

Carrie’s power bangs.  
 

 

Sad Logan. Sad Shiv. Ruthless Tom. Naomi’s Princess Di cut, Nan’s WASP pretentiousness

 

SUCCESSION IS BACK!!!!!

[BlackberryJam]

Cherry Jones is fabulous as Nan. She really hits the perfect note of “I’m so above it all and won’t discuss your filthy money, now give me more of it.” I remember the Tern Haven episode when the housekeeper or whatever brings out the turkey and Nan 1. Acts like she herself made it, 2. Invites her to eat with the family, all the while acting like that housekeeper hasn’t slaved away all fucking day and now has the kitchen to clean. 

The Pierces wear the privilege in the “old money” way, not like those crass “new money” Roys.

I’m pretty sure this episode was supposed to have take place just a few days after the end of last season, so the kids didn’t have that much time…and in fact, weren’t they flying out of Europe where they’d been for Harriet Walters’/Mom’s wedding?

I’m interested in finding out about Connor’s mother. Also, I kind of loved how Willa was all, “you can throw away another 100 million and still be rich, right?”

Logan’s birthday reminded me of Kendall’s sad “Too Much Birthday.” 

I don’t think Logan and Marcia have divorced. She’s just left his ass. 

[pasdetrois]

Now that the three siblings are plotting together, we are treated to their patented rat-a-tat-tat dialogue, accompanied with facial ticks and truncated grunts, which is a bit wearisome to watch in long stretches. But it's realistic for this trio I guess.

Logan's stamina for this brutal world is slipping.

Shiv's late-night break-up with Tom was brilliant. She was exhausted, had her hair scraped back and lines on her face, her defenses were down, and she fought crumbling to pieces. Meanwhile Tom is mouthing words but there's no emotion behind them. He's a killer, that one, Logan's true heir apparent.

Thank God for Greg's goofy comic relief.

Edited March 27, 2023 by pasdetrois

[absnow54]

9 hours ago, nb360 said:

Did Tom still have his ring on, but Shiv didn't?

Tom wasn't wearing his ring when he was out in public, including Logan's birthday, but put it back on when he was at home. Shiv had her ring on the whole episode.

[shelley1234]

I should have done a re-watch of at least season 3 before the premiere.   It took me a beat to remind myself of what was going on and what the plays were.   But my brain kicked in and I was along with them for the ride.  

Connor reminded me how much I am angered by how much money it costs to run for office....and how many millions to keep you just at one percent.   Ugh.  And now he wants to turn his wedding into a publicity stunt.   Eww.  

Greg and Tom being the disgusting brothers is well, disgusting.   

I did enjoy Nan being able to play Logan in the negotiations.  Stick it to him!!!  

Welcome back Succession.   I've missed you! 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by shelley1234

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

I’m pretty sure this episode was supposed to have take place just a few days after the end of last season, so the kids didn’t have that much time…and in fact, weren’t they flying out of Europe where they’d been for Harriet Walters’/Mom’s wedding?

During the episode, they mentioned working on this for months, so it takes place months after the last episode.

[RedDelicious]

My favorite line was Roman talking about sullying Nan’s brake bumper 🥃 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm excited to see this last season and I think this episode was a good start. My only complaint was too little Gerri. I just love her.

It is so infuriating to see how out of touch all these people are. For starters, Conner who "will be a laughingstock" if he doesn't get 1% of the vote. What ego. He will actually inspire more ire if he siphons votes from another candidate in a tight race. Curious if this is where the story is headed and what it would take for him to stop campaigning.

Next up, Nan. Ready to throw the 4th estate under the bus as a "responsibility to the shareholders" and because her family needs wants to maintain all their assets. At least it went to the Roy children instead of Logan?

And the Roy children, who spend less time deciding to buy a company and negotiating the sale of 10 billion dollars than I do buying a new chair. At least Roman pointed out how much half of a billion was.

I did like how accurate the Roy siblings were in psychoanalyzing each other. Kendall knew that Roman was afraid of confrontation and Roman knew that Kendall really wanted to stick it to Logan. It must have to felt good for them to hear that they got under Logan's skin "Congratulations, you said a higher number than me, you morons!" after the events of last season.

I guess this is the end for Shiv and Tom. They gave it a go. At least Tom got reassurance that he's good with Logan even if he and Shiv divorce. Not that that's worth much coming from Logan. Shiv really pushes everyone away; even the dog doesn't recognize her.

So was Tom lying to Greg about Logan having cameras everywhere? I usually like the antics that Tom and Greg get up to but that was probably the least funny of their exchanges to me. Maybe because we've already had so much weird sex stuff with Roman.

[aghst]

"will be" a laughingstock Conor?  You're already there buddy.

$100 million spent and another $100 million required to keep that 1% is crazy.

So he wants to have some "hoopla" some stunt at a big wedding to get media coverage and Willa wants a nice wedding.

 

[absnow54]

I thought it was interesting to see Logan's ennui, as cutting out his kids means he's only surrounded by sycophants who have too much on the line to ever challenge him. I liked the contrast of him asking someone in the room to tell a joke, while across the country, the Roy siblings were as crass as ever in their humorous digs at one another. He misses his little morons.

[aghst]

Official podcast with Kara Swisher has discussions with Jesse Armstrong and Frank Rich, also executive producer.

They say the way Kendall describes The Hundred as a combination of all these other media is nonsense, it's suppose to be a bad pitch, by people who probably don't even read things like The Atlantic or even the NY Times.

There is really no good reason for them to buy the Pierce because media is not the best return on their money.  There are better investments to make.  Yet newspapers and media are all they know and they would have influence.  They reference the big election with Logan and ATN betting on the Justin Kirk character.

Logan also, the convo he has with Colin, is meant to show that Logan doesn't connect to people.  Not only lonely because he's missing the kids but he's not bonded to anyone else.  So he's ill-equipped to have a heart to heart with his bodyguard, let alone anyone else.

But for all the horrible ways he mistreated his children and the way he thinks they've done him wrong, they are the closets to him emotionally, as stunted as his emotional development may be.

 

 

[Simon Boccanegra]

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

At least Tom got reassurance that he's good with Logan even if he and Shiv divorce. Not that that's worth much coming from Logan.

And in the whole human history of reassurances, one would have to look hard to find a less reassuring one than that stony "If we're good, we're good." 

I feel as though there was a similar interaction between Tom and Logan in an earlier season, in which Tom hemmed and hawed trying to gauge the security of his long-term position. Logan eventually said something inscrutable that could sound reassuring if the listener really tried to make it that, and Tom acted like a starving man thrown a crumb. It's their dynamic. 

I'm happy to have the show back, and I thought it was a solid premiere. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Connor is so desperate to cling to his 1% in the polls that he is basically wanting to skimp on his and Willa's wedding.  Yeah, that's pretty much what I would have expected from him.  Hell, if they just elope, maybe he'll have enough funds to move that to 2%!  Or at least 1.5%...

...

Sara Snook and Matthew Macfayden acted the hell out of their big scene.  Shiv and Tom are just so toxic in almost every way, and yet I strangely do feel sad for them.  I think there really is something resembling love there, but it will never make-up for everything bad about this couple.  But, again, I almost find it a bit tragic.

I don't think Connor wanted to skimp on his wedding. I think he wanted to transform the wedding into a campaign stunt at/near the Statute of Liberty as opposed to having a normal-for-ultra-rich people wedding. It is unclear if Willa wants to actually get married to Connor at all, or if she just wants to continue to live the ultra-rich lifestyle. Actually, check that...it's pretty clear to me that she just wants to live the ultra-rich lifestyle. It's super-sad to me that Connor is willing to set $100 million on fire not just on a vanity presidential run, but to maintain the difference between 1 percent and less than 1 percent. It's also sad that with the inherent in through Waystar, he can't get above 1 percent. And that Logan isn't willing to say "You're wasting your time and money." Have we seen any/many scenes with just Logan and Connor in the series?

I think Tom does love Shiv despite his plethora of insecurities and issues. I don't know that Shiv ever loved Tom but just saw him as a big handsome dumbass who would take her bullshit without end. I think it's interesting how rattled she became at the nerve that Tom might possibly be taking advantage of their supposed open relationship and having sex with someone she didn't set him up with and who is also independently wealthy and successful. That she was willing to divorce him to facilitate the deal, or at least, to say before talking to him that she planned to divorce him to the Pierces shows to me that any sense of "love" from her to him is at best as warped as one might expect someone raised in Logan's shadow to be.

[pasdetrois]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

There is really no good reason for them to buy the Pierce because media is not the best return on their money.  There are better investments to make.

It occurred to me when they offered $10B that this was too much, they'd gotten caught up on "beating Dad." (As Logan seemed to indicate)

I wonder if he will have the last word on this. I wonder if they will lose their shirts.

[Cramps]

We learned that the kids can buy Nan’s company once they get the money from Logan selling his company…I’m thinking Logan is vindictive enough not to sell. 

I liked having the kids initially stopping their meeting when Shiv came back in from her call with Tom. It seemed like they were pulling together to support her— or did the brothers see the subtext of the call (Nan’s company being on the block again) from the beginning? 

The scene with Shiv and Tom breaking up was incredibly powerful and well done. It made my heart break for two horrible and cruel people. 
 

Season premieres can be draggy because there is so much exposition being done — but I thought this was very strong. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Cramps

[Guest]

I thought this episode was a good contrast to Logan's birthday in the series premiere.  Back then, the family gathered and there was a lot of tension, and Kendall felt screwed. But everyone else was carrying on as normal.  Kendall was there, even though he was angry and hurt still.  

Fast forward three years and only Connor is still around of the kids. Logan has replaced his sycophantic kids with different sycophants.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

There is really no good reason for them to buy the Pierce because media is not the best return on their money.  There are better investments to make.  Yet newspapers and media are all they know and they would have influence.  They reference the big election with Logan and ATN betting on the Justin Kirk character.

This should be "there is really no good financial reason to buy Pierce because media is not the best return on their money."

But they do not care about the best financial return. Each of the three of them will have more money than they can possibly spend for their lives, and their descendants lives and their next several generations of descendants' lives. 

It's about power and it's about their obsession with finally beating Logan and/or earning his respect/love.

Putting $10b in a dying media brand is unlikely to recoup that money. But it will allow them to control the conversation during this presidential race and to give Logan the middle finger with an outlet almost as powerful as his own that he can't really touch.

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Tom but just saw him as a big handsome dumbass who would take her bullshit without end

Same but is Tom actually dumb or does he just give dumb ass vibes?  

[absnow54]

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, it sounds like the Roy kids (well, not including Connor) spent the hiatus initially trying to form their own upstart company of "alternative news" and work from the ground up, but then they discover (thanks to Tom?  Is he playing both sides?) that Logan and Waystar are planning on buying out the Pierce's organization, so they end up making a play of their own. 

I wondered this about Tom as well, because giving Shiv the "heads up" about him and Naomi meeting was totally unnecessary. I think he was trying to tank the Pierce deal for his own gain, either because he thought it was a bad investment and couldn't say that to Logan's face, or he was worried it'd dilute the importance of ATN in the Waystar portfolio, and therefore his role in the company.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Just now, absnow54 said:

I wondered this about Tom as well, because giving Shiv the "heads up" about him and Naomi meeting was totally unnecessary. I think he was trying to tank the Pierce deal for his own gain, either because he thought it was a bad investment and couldn't say that to Logan's face, or he was worried it'd dilute the importance of ATN in the Waystar portfolio, and therefore his role in the company.

I think Tom wasn't thinking any more deeply than he said. He was caught hanging out with Naomi by a mutual friend, he lied to that mutual friend to say that they were dating rather than having a business deal, and he was engaging in CYA in case the mutual friend called Shiv up and was like, "Hey, your husband told me he's dating Naomi Pierce."

Tom being the incompetent boob that he is, he couldn't just say "Hey, Mutual Friend might be reaching out to you about me dating Naomi, but that's not true." or even just not say anything. Maybe part of him was curious to see how Shiv would react to him actually dating someone of Naomi's stature.

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

Same but is Tom actually dumb or does he just give dumb ass vibes?  

My take on Tom is that he is generally an ambitious but dumb guy, that he has a certain intelligence as how to manipulate a certain type of people, but is generally not smart as to how things are. To take this episode, he knows enough of the ways of the Roy family and that sort of culture to know how many faux-pas Greg had committed and that he should worry about his future with the company if he and Shiv divorce. But I don't think that he intentionally hipped the Roy kids to the fact that Logan was trying to buy PGM, and only belatedly realized that he had done so.

[aghst]

I don't think Tom's dumb at all.

 

They all look much richer than last season.  Kendall was thinking of cashing out his stake for $2 billion but now he's part of a $10 billion bid and they would each have more money left over if that investment fails.

Conor was looking for cash infusion from his father because Willa's stupid play was costing them a fortune and he was desperate to recoup money from that.

But now he has to consider throwing in $100 million more to his vanity presidential run, which isn't working and he's balking.  He's not as rich as the other kids but he must be worth several hundred million at least that he could waste a $100 million for nothing.

 

Speaking of bad return on investments.  His brothers and sister and Willa should be knocking sense into him.  Instead they mock him about never having held a job -- neither have they outside of the family business though Shiv was a political consultant for awhile.

They were also merciless in the first couple of seasons about Willa being a paid escort and now, they target Kerry for all that verbal abuse.

[sistermagpie]

50 minutes ago, dmc said:

Same but is Tom actually dumb or does he just give dumb ass vibes?  

Just the vibes. He's no genius, but he's the one person here who started out with nothing, outside the family, and is now running a big part of the business. And he'd gotten far enough up to get Shiv's attention before he was connected to her, so he's not just getting stuff through her.

[BlackberryJam]

30 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Just the vibes. He's no genius, but he's the one person here who started out with nothing, outside the family, and is now running a big part of the business. And he'd gotten far enough up to get Shiv's attention before he was connected to her, so he's not just getting stuff through her.

I rewatched a bit of S1. Tom's mother is a divorce attorney in ..Minnesota I think. So clearly not Roy level money. Tom is also dithering about what to by Logan for present and ends up with some super expensive watch and Logan doesn't care.

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

During the episode, they mentioned working on this for months, so it takes place months after the last episode.

You're right. I'm wrong. The articles say a 3 month time jump. 

I'm sure Roman/Kendall/Shiv would have ripped on Willa if they'd been talking to Connor or Willa. They are all about the verbal target right in front of them. 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

46 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Just the vibes. He's no genius, but he's the one person here who started out with nothing, outside the family, and is now running a big part of the business. And he'd gotten far enough up to get Shiv's attention before he was connected to her, so he's not just getting stuff through her.

I don't know if we have gotten enough of Tom's backstory to know if/how much he might be a self-made person from before he started dating Shiv.

I can't think of anything that he has done on the show that would make me say "That was a clever move" other than he can occasionally decode Roy family/ultrarich culture shenanigans.

[realityplease]

My take on Tom is that he's just smart enough to oversee/delegate day-to-day operations in the sphere to which he's assigned, just smart enough for Logan to use as a conduit for information from & to the "rats," just smart enough to pick a side (Logan's) even if it means ratting out his own wife in order to be on the winning side of the GoJo merger.  But will Tom be smart enough to keep his position after the buyout/merger?  At Waystar, he's failed upwards so long as he's backed Logan - who knows after the buy-out?

Because Tom's not great when he's on the spot.  He's wasn't smart when bumbling before the govt. committee investigating Cruises. He's not smart enough to know Logan's "if we're good, we're good" is far from "heartening" & promises nothing as to any future time when they're not aligned or "good."  He wasn't smart enough to see, before it actually happened, that Shiv would always boost herself (& not him) though she might "save" him if in a situation with no loss to herself.  He wasn't smart enough to know his marriage was doomed (if not prior) than the moment he ratted out his wife & her brothers.  He's not smart enough to know that indulging his joy in feeling power over Greg might not be worth the risk of being sunk by Greg's naivety & blundering.  Not smart enough to see that to Logan, you're only as good as your last performance. Tom's offer to fall on his sword over the cruises debacle, or tip him off to the kids trying to stop the merger, might not be enough to buy Logan's protection over his entire career if a time comes when it's more expedient to Logan to cut Tom out.

Tom acts out of instinct. Rat them out first, see the consequence (a failed marriage) -- & only belatedly, ask Logan how it impacts him with Logan if he & Shiv split.  He's not strategic or cunning.  He doesn't plan. He reacts to situations - and his reactions only involve chirping in Logan's ear or trying to keep Logan happy. That's only smart so long as Logan stays on top.        

Edited March 27, 2023 by realityplease

[tennisgurl]

This looks like its going to be a great final season, the claws are out and even sharper than usual. The three siblings working together means we get tons of that classic rapid fire insult dialogue even as they scheme, the whole cast has such great chemistry, its great to see Kendall, Roman, and Shiv all together again. Its a great contrast to Logan's sad clinical birthday, filled with sycophants who are too scared of Logan to really give it to him the way that the rest of the family do to each other. Its a lot like Kendall's sad birthday but from a different angle. While Kendall was so desperate to seem cool that he came off as painfully lame at a party filled with strangers, Logan is just bored out of his mind at this birthday which is basically a work event full of employees. 

Willa might be in this for the money, but she was still pretty rightfully pissed at her wedding being used as a publicity stunt for Connors non campaign. I do think that Willa has some actual affection for Connor, but it seems like she's getting tired of him and his delusional "political career" as he throws away money to keep his one sorry percent. She can at least usually pretend to look interested in most of his rambles, but she was almost rolling her eyes as he went on about his one percent and how he has to keep it to keep from becoming a laughing stock before confirming that he'll still be rich if he dumps a bunch of money on this vanity project. 

Nan is just such perfect Old Money self importance, of course she doesn't want to actually talk about that "horrible icky" money while also playing hardball to get even more of it. But you know what's better than money? Making Logan have a crappy day, no money can match that sweet feeling. 

The talk between Shiv and Tom was actually quite sad in its own weird way. The two of them are utterly toxic people who are even more toxic together, but there did seem to be something close to love between them at times. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by tennisgurl

[sistermagpie]

15 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if we have gotten enough of Tom's backstory to know if/how much he might be a self-made person from before he started dating Shiv.

I can't think of anything that he has done on the show that would make me say "That was a clever move" other than he can occasionally decode Roy family/ultrarich culture shenanigans.

I've never been impressed by his cleverness, but I think we do know he's...well, not self-made in the sense that somebody like Logan is, but we know he just comes from ordinary parents in the Midwest. So he didn't rise through the ranks based on connections or tons of money. Nothing really impressive, but not just failing upwards thanks to connections and money--until he hooked up with Shiv. It seems like it's been just enough to keep him from self-destructing at this level. But not much more. If he was too much of a doofus, it would have been worse imo.

[Adgirl]

I think the tension between them stems from Roman wanting to be as successful as Logan in his own right while Shiv and Kendall want to beat Logan. 

I too wish there had been more Gerri in this episode. I would have loved for Karl to try and tell a joke. "Frank start. Be funny!" 

Did we know Greg's dad was hoeing at the county fair?

Really glad the show is back.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Adgirl

[iMonrey]

Quote

That's what I thought too but then I was confused he went back to wanting to buy Pierce. I couldn't tell if it was to replace ATN or if he was keeping the news division in the sale---but, as you said, content was GoJo's weakness.

I didn't get this either. Why is Logan trying to buy Pierce if he is selling Waystar to GoJo? It's like he's dumping one problematic company only to replace it with another.

I think at the end of the day Logan will wind up the big winner because the show seems convinced that's what we want to see. It's why they didn't kill him off in Season 1 like they originally planned to.

I was happy to see that this was going to be the last season because it just seems to keep going in circles but if it ends the way I suspect it will then it probably should have just ended last season. I don't need yet another go-round of Logan besting all his kids, again, some more.

Edited March 27, 2023 by iMonrey

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I was happy to see that this was going to be the last season because it just seems to keep going in circles but if it ends the way I suspect it will then it probably should have just ended last season. I don't need yet another go-round of Logan besting all his kids, again, some more.

I think if they know it's the last season Logan should be dying in it.  And he very well might.

[vibeology]

5 hours ago, realityplease said:

My take on Tom is that he's just smart enough to oversee/delegate day-to-day operations in the sphere to which he's assigned, just smart enough for Logan to use as a conduit for information from & to the "rats," just smart enough to pick a side (Logan's) even if it means ratting out his own wife in order to be on the winning side of the GoJo merger.  But will Tom be smart enough to keep his position after the buyout/merger?  At Waystar, he's failed upwards so long as he's backed Logan - who knows after the buy-out?

My understanding after watching this episode is the deal is more like the Disney-Fox situation and ATN is being carved out and kept by Logan so Tom might not have to worry about Go Jo. That being said, if that's all Logan has, he'll be all over it and will make things even harder for Tom and Cyd.

[Athena5217]

I didn’t realize until this episode that Shiv’s dog is named “Mondale.” I found that a very odd choice. You’d think she’d want to name her dog after a Democrat that won the presidency like Roosevelt or Kennedy. I notice that poor dog always seems to be in the pen too. Assuming it’s the same dog we’ve seem in previous seasons, it should be old enough to be properly house trained.

[Simon Boccanegra]

1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

I didn’t realize until this episode that Shiv’s dog is named “Mondale.” I found that a very odd choice. You’d think she’d want to name her dog after a Democrat that won the presidency like Roosevelt or Kennedy.

But Tom is from Minnesota, like the former VP. I think that was a factor in his naming.   

I believe he's Tom's dog more than Shiv's, in the sense that if they aren't sharing a space anymore, he'll be with Tom. And I agree, neither of them has been shown to be a great dog owner. The poor thing is always in the pen, even when they're both home.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't get this either. Why is Logan trying to buy Pierce if he is selling Waystar to GoJo? It's like he's dumping one problematic company only to replace it with another.

I can't keep all the previous seasons' corporate shenanigans straight.

However, I believe at one point before Go Jo, the Royces were looking to buy out PGM as a thing that would  keep whatever set of wolves at bay. So it could be the case that Logan does not really want to go through with the Go Jo deal and is looking to blow it up by absorbing PGM and helping to make the company too big for Go Jo to buy. 

It s also possible that the point would be to have an escape route after the GoJo sale. Part of the issue with the GoJo sale is that when it happens, Logan and the Royce family get a ton of cash but lose power, influence over the company and ability to shape public opinion. The PGM deal would allow them to still have a bunch of cash and to retain power/influence. 

There's also the intangible profit of being able to potentially piss all over the old-money limousine liberals the Pierces and their prize possessions for Logan, and the intangible profit of screwing over Logan for the kids.