S03.E05: Part Five - Imposters

[rtms77]

10 hours ago, Pallas said:

Ro was the son he never had.

 

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Ro being introduced just to die sucked. Ugh.

RO!! I’m so glad to see you…

KILLS her Off!

 

NOOOOOO, Stupid show,lol.

But seriously I was so happy to see her. She was my favorite the moment she showed up in TNG. 
I guess this means all those Star Trek  books are non cannon, since Ro ended up on DS9. I’m honestly surprised Picard never heard about her reinstatement given the Amnesty that was offered to most of the Marquis, or has that been reconntd as well?

Leave it to Ro to unearth the changling conspiracy. Glad she went out a boss. But why take most of the Titan crew to a ship full of Changlings? Ro doomed those crew members to death. They were safer on the Titan.

So Jack is a …idk really. Is he a science experiment gone wrong? Bev doesn’t seem to know anything. Suddenly he’s got superpowers? Hmm maybe a weapon unleashed on the changlings that they are desperate to kill? A symbiot taking control of the real Jack? Stay tuned as Bev finally clues in that something is wrong with her kid. Took her long enough.

Forbes and Stewart sold that last scene between them. I’m still in denial about her dying. 
Worf and Raffi…. At least now Worf and Picard will join together. I’m surprised Worf would work with Ro given what she did. Worf has grown since TNG and DS9. I still didn’t care for the gangster stuff or their storyline. Raffi is just going no where.

Poor Shaw, at this point I think he just wants to jump out the nearest airlock and take his chances, 😂. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by rtms77

[paigow]

5 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

 I seem to recall being told he was in Shatner's documentary about a dozen years ago, but admit I've never seen it.

The Captains  - Shatner interviewed Stewart; Mulgrew; Brooks, Bakula & Pine

[dwmarch]

13 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I guess this means all those Star Trek  books are non cannon, since Ro ended up on DS9.

The novel continuity intentionally destroyed itself in the Coda books because the TNG, DS9 and VOY "relaunches" were all written when live-action Star Trek was as dead as dead could be (between Nemesis and Star Trek 2009). This new golden age of Trek with five shows in production at any given moment overwrites one bit or another of novel continuity every episode. For what it is worth, the authors of Star Trek novels make no claims to canon* and are well aware that live action Trek will ignore their efforts.

*The Voyager novels Mosaic and Pathways were backstories on Janeway and the crew respectively and they were considered canon until they weren't anymore.

Mild spoilers for the DS9 hardcover novel Unity regarding what this episode overwrote:

Spoiler

In "Unity" Ro Laren is technically welcomed back into Starfleet (she had been doing Kira's old job as Bajoran Liason but Bajor is joining the Federation) and she is sent a Starfleet uniform with well wishes from JLP. It's a lovely scene.

Very, very rarely will something make it from the novels to the screen. I am pretty sure Hikaru and Nyota came from the novels. The original Titan design was from a contest in the books so it was amazing to see that on screen. A character on Prodigy is also based on a species from the New Frontier novel series. If anything else has gone from page to screen I don't recall offhand although there was a plot in Discovery that was an absolutely shameless ripoff of a DS9 novel called "Control".

[Frozendiva]

Exposition-heavy episode.

Nice to se you again, Ro. Maybe you are not dead and somehow got saved to a transporter buffer. 

The three captains, well, two and an admiral need their own Goldilocks. Shaw probably misses his old uneventful life.

Too easy for Raffi to kill Worf off without real honor.

Changelings would find it much easier to hide as a piece of furniture. Something that would easily not arouse any suspicions. Why are they trying to destroy or overthrow Starfleet?

Nice use of the Bajoran earrings as data modules.

What is Jack Crusher supposed to be? He can find the Changelings so….

[Prevailing Wind]

7 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

What is Jack Crusher supposed to be? He can find the Changelings so….

I like a suggestion above that he's possessed by a P'ah Wraith.

[Chicago Redshirt]

59 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I guess this means all those Star Trek  books are non cannon, since Ro ended up on DS9. I’m honestly surprised Picard never heard about her reinstatement given the Amnesty that was offered to most of the Marquis, or has that been reconntd as well?

I think the last we heard about the Maquis was Chakotay and Torres getting the news on Voyager that basically the Dominion killed the overwhelming majority of them with a few in Federation prisons. So anything about a great amnesty seems yet to have made it to the screen.

[Affogato]

11 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Changelings would find it much easier to hide as a piece of furniture. Something that would easily not arouse any suspicions. Why are they trying to destroy or overthrow Starfleet?

They are likely not trying to destroy or overthrow so much as infiltrate and annex. Keep the structure under new management. 

 

Just to add, the founders have a territory they control, they are acquisitive that way. Some may be less colonial than others, but it makes sense some of them would want to take over other quadrants.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Affogato

[AllyB]

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So the notion that there were at least six Changelings on board the Intrepid is kind of a big deal.

There weren't six confirmed, just 4 played by 6 actors. The two changelings who killed Ro, beamed back to the Titan after trapping her. They immediately shape shifted to look like Titan officers, so they could continue on to find Jack. The pair who found Jack were the same characters who killed Ro but played by different actors. The pair who beamed on to help them take Jack were changelings 3 and 4.

[marinw]

It must be great morale boster to be considered a "Non Essestial Crew Member". If you're non-essential, why are you there? Is there a ship's Librarian or Social Media Consultant? One of the things I love about "Lower Decks" is how in one season finale Captian Freeman ordered EVERYBODY to help deal with the current crises.

I echo another poster's previous question about the Titan's Chief Engineer. Was this person killed off?

Edited March 17, 2023 by marinw

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

There weren't six confirmed, just 4 played by 6 actors. The two changelings who killed Ro, beamed back to the Titan after trapping her. They immediately shape shifted to look like Titan officers, so they could continue on to find Jack. The pair who found Jack were the same characters who killed Ro but played by different actors. The pair who beamed on to help them take Jack were changelings 3 and 4.

This helps, but it still makes my head hurt.

What is the deal with the whispering that Jack keeps hearing? In this episode the whisperer was identified as Beverly and sounded like her, but I think in a previous episode the whisperer was unidentified and/or had a different voice. Also, in the previous episode the whisperer was saying "Find me" and this time (with Beverly's voice) it was something like "Make the connection." (There was more said but I was sleepy and didn't catch it all.) Is this the Star Trek version of Field of Dreams, LOL?

[cambridgeguy]

34 minutes ago, marinw said:

It must be great morale boster to be considered a "Non Essestial Crew Member". If you're non-essential, why are you there? Is there a ship's Librarian or Social Media Consultant? One of the things I love about "Lower Decks" is how in one season finale Captian Freeman ordered EVERYBODY to help deal with the current crises.

For a limited time you could have people pulling extra shifts instead of cosplaying in the holodeck.  A lot of the science personnel don't need to be there if the goal is to unravel a conspiracy instead of exploring strange new worlds.  Fewer people means a smaller medical staff is OK.  It just means you're screwed if stuff starts to break and automation fails (i.e. like in Trek III when Kirk and friends commandeered the Enterprise).

[ML89]

7 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

It just means you're screwed if stuff starts to break and automation fails (i.e. like in Trek III when Kirk and friends commandeered the Enterprise).

So one of Elon Musk's descendents is running Starfleet?

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, ML89 said:

So one of Elon Musk's descendents is running Starfleet?

Yeah... The guy who approved the new Phallus Class research ships 

[marinw]

Best line: “Would you mind not putting holes in my floor every time you make a point?”

So Ro’s suicide run didn’t even disable the Intrepid that much. One more reason why her death sucked.

[chaifan]

It was nice to see the return of Ro Laren, and I am going with the "no body's dead until we see the funeral, and even then, maybe not" theory of all sci fi shows.  Maybe she beamed onto the Intrepid at the last moment and we'll see her piloting the ship single handed in a later episode. 

I totally agree with everyone on wondering why crew members are tested for being changelings, but there's no mention of whether stuff is also tested.  But I'll handwaive that away and assume that they screen all cargo in some way that's easier to detect than impersonating a crew member.  If the whole point of the Picard/Ro holodeck scene is that changelings can't cry, then maybe they should just make crew members dice a load of onions before they board a ship. 

I have to say, I'm just not as drawn to this season as I was Season 1 or 2.  I don't know what it is.  I really like Riker's involvement here, and I love how Shaw just gives shit back to Riker and Picard.  Those three have great rapport on screen.  It's a shame they've neutered Seven and give her so little to do.   For some reason, Worf's not doing it for me.  New Worf is sort of boring.  And I really don't care at all about Jack.  We've seen this in so many shows - someone has latent super-spy/assassin skills that pop up at just the right moment, always accompanied by nightmares of some past they can't remember.  They've got pieces right, but the whole thing together just isn't hitting the mark.

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, AllyB said:

There weren't six confirmed, just 4 played by 6 actors. The two changelings who killed Ro, beamed back to the Titan after trapping her. They immediately shape shifted to look like Titan officers, so they could continue on to find Jack. The pair who found Jack were the same characters who killed Ro but played by different actors. The pair who beamed on to help them take Jack were changelings 3 and 4.

I stand corrected.

The overall point, though, stands. Four Changelings (plus however many are still on board the Intrepid) is more than we've seen acting in concert outside the Great Link.

This show seems to be simplifying Changelings to either be able to shift into a person duplicate or a blob, which reduces their effectiveness. Not being able to shift into a floor panel, a fly, an energy form or such gives Our Heroes a fighting chance. A single fully-realized DS9 Changeling could easily evade and assassinate an entire shipfull of people. 

[Chaos Theory]

Does Beverly Crusher have some weird super genes because both her sons (who have different daddies) have super powers.  

 

I actually really liked the Picard/Ro stuff.  I mean she just basically vanished from the show and was never heard from or about again and this was a reasonable explanation of what she was up to since.

As for the Janeway allusions.   I am guessing that the people surrounding her are not giving her the information she needs.   She might have gotten complacent over the years and the Changelings might be giving her the wrong information.    It would be interesting to have Picard rush in with the correct intel and the scene that would bring.

[paigow]

22 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

It would be interesting to have Picard rush in with the correct intel and the scene that would bring.

Same as when Picard asked that other dumbass Admiral- who let her unit get infiltrated by Romulans - for a ship...

[ajsnaves]

Some thoughts I had this morning.  We know from DS9 that Changelings can imitate inanimate objects. See Odo being a duffel bag, drink cart, painting, and glass.  All in the first season.  But maybe with their "evolution" that allows them to create the innards of the people they imitate, they've lost that ability.  Or it is much harder now. That might also explain the new  meaty goo look.  I think the question is where did this ability come from. We know the Founders were adept at genetic engineering from their work with the Vorta and Jem Hedar. I think it i reasonable to think they could do this to themselves on purpose to allow themselves to better sneak around Star Fleet.  I think it will be fun to see if these are really a rogue segment as Worf believes, separate from the Great Link/Founders.  If that's the case, maybe we will need to go to the Gamma Quadrant to get their help.

So far I am enjoying this season.  But I am an easy mark for Star Trek.  I enjoy it all. But I love the nostalgia on this one.  Loved seeing Ro.  Hope we see others.  Including the "Most important person in the history of Star Fleet." Miles O'Brien.

[Affogato]

26 minutes ago, ajsnaves said:

Some thoughts I had this morning.  We know from DS9 that Changelings can imitate inanimate objects. See Odo being a duffel bag, drink cart, painting, and glass.  All in the first season.  But maybe with their "evolution" that allows them to create the innards of the people they imitate, they've lost that ability.  Or it is much harder now. That might also explain the new  meaty goo look.  I think the question is where did this ability come from. We know the Founders were adept at genetic engineering from their work with the Vorta and Jem Hedar. I think it i reasonable to think they could do this to themselves on purpose to allow themselves to better sneak around Star Fleet.  I think it will be fun to see if these are really a rogue segment as Worf believes, separate from the Great Link/Founders.  If that's the case, maybe we will need to go to the Gamma Quadrant to get their help.

So far I am enjoying this season.  But I am an easy mark for Star Trek.  I enjoy it all. But I love the nostalgia on this one.  Loved seeing Ro.  Hope we see others.  Including the "Most important person in the history of Star Fleet." Miles O'Brien.

You know how changelings imitate things? Human and objects? Most of them probably want to replace people in the system and act in their own interests as political entities. They may have never needed the organ work but learned how to do it as a response to needing it when dealing with the Federation. Less actual evolution and more learned response. Like never needing a coat but learning how to make them when you find yourself in a cold climate.

Odo warned Worf, right? I mean, Odo would know. But just because the main (um) body of the Founders isn't behind it doesn't mean they are going to help Starfleet.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Affogato

[iMonrey]

Can someone refresh my memory? Where did we leave off with Ro Laren in TNG? I don't have any recollection of her joining the Maquis. Is that something that happened in the books or something? She was only in, what, the last two seasons of TNG?

Quote

I like a suggestion above that he's possessed by a P'ah Wraith.

Yeah but when Keiko was possessed by a P'ah Wraith she knew it. Her own personality was subdued and she was controlled by the spirit.

[dwmarch]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Can someone refresh my memory? Where did we leave off with Ro Laren in TNG? I don't have any recollection of her joining the Maquis. Is that something that happened in the books or something? She was only in, what, the last two seasons of TNG?

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Preemptive_Strike_(episode)

This was the second to last TNG episode.

Edited March 17, 2023 by dwmarch

[marinw]

I agree with the above Poster that Ro probably isn't dead but maybe sneaking around the Intrepid. I didn't buy Worf's "Death" for a second.

Edited March 17, 2023 by marinw

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

It must be great morale boster to be considered a "Non Essestial Crew Member". If you're non-essential, why are you there? Is there a ship's Librarian or Social Media Consultant? One of the things I love about "Lower Decks" is how in one season finale Captian Freeman ordered EVERYBODY to help deal with the current crises.

I echo another poster's previous question about the Titan's Chief Engineer. Was this person killed off?

The exploration ships have historians, Keiko was a botanist, they are all potentially essential in some situations and not in others. You don't take a botanist to a gorn fight.

[paigow]

6 minutes ago, Affogato said:

 You don't take a botanist to a gorn fight.

Unless you are teleported by those annoying Metrons to a rain forest planet for a death match using only weapons built from raw materials. Keiko could identify lethal plants and create a compound for coating arrowheads and spear tips...

[txhorns79]

13 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I tried watching Voyager, but I just couldn't get into it. Besides, Janeway's hair seemed way too fussy for a starship captain.

She goes for a nice bob in later seasons.

 

15 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

 

Also, has Beverly sat down since she was hauled up to the bridge in Episode 2? Fifer that poor woman seat already. 

She did seem to go from close to death to essentially fine very quickly.

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, ajsnaves said:

 I think it will be fun to see if these are really a rogue segment as Worf believes, separate from the Great Link/Founders.

So far I am enjoying this season.  But I am an easy mark for Star Trek.  I enjoy it all. But I love the nostalgia on this one.  Loved seeing Ro.  Hope we see others.  Including the "Most important person in the history of Star Fleet." Miles O'Brien.

Perhaps that Laas changeling (the one who became fog on the Promenade) found some others to join him in a "let's prank the solids" thing which them became VERY serious, at least to the solids.

I think I read somewhere that Meaney doesn't want to re-visit O'Brien. Of course, that might have been mis-direction.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah but when Keiko was possessed by a P'ah Wraith she knew it. Her own personality was subdued and she was controlled by the spirit.

Maybe they've learned how to hide in plain sight within a humanoid.  ETA: Remember, these writers have forgotten canon.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Prevailing Wind

[rtms77]

2 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

Some thoughts I had this morning.  We know from DS9 that Changelings can imitate inanimate objects. See Odo being a duffel bag, drink cart, painting, and glass.  All in the first season.  But maybe with their "evolution" that allows them to create the innards of the people they imitate, they've lost that ability.  Or it is much harder now. That might also explain the new  meaty goo look.  I think the question is where did this ability come from. We know the Founders were adept at genetic engineering from their work with the Vorta and Jem Hedar. I think it i reasonable to think they could do this to themselves on purpose to allow themselves to better sneak around Star Fleet.  I think it will be fun to see if these are really a rogue segment as Worf believes, separate from the Great Link/Founders.  If that's the case, maybe we will need to go to the Gamma Quadrant to get their help.

So far I am enjoying this season.  But I am an easy mark for Star Trek.  I enjoy it all. But I love the nostalgia on this one.  Loved seeing Ro.  Hope we see others.  Including the "Most important person in the history of Star Fleet." Miles O'Brien.

I’m under the impression it’s not evolving so much as cross breeding and genetic experimentation with a different sort of shape shifter people. Changlings can’t be the only shapeshifters around. In finding this other species they gained the ability to be more humanoid but lost the ability for inanimate objects. 
 

While a part of me hopes Ro made it, it just doesn’t look good. Another reviewer though mentioned that Ro was fridged for Shaws manpain, not to mention Picards. Not cool show. 
 

As for Janeway, Prodigy takes place well before this show doesn’t? Or are they in the same year?

Edited March 17, 2023 by rtms77

[Stardancer Supreme]

7 hours ago, marinw said:

Best line: “Would you mind not putting holes in my floor every time you make a point?”

So Ro’s suicide run didn’t even disable the Intrepid that much. One more reason why her death sucked.

 

 

 

It stopped the Intrepid from warping after the Titan. That was the only point that mattered. Ro wasn't trying to take anyone else with her; she needed the Titan to get away.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Stardancer Supreme

[marinw]

That makes sense, Ro knew that there are still lots of “real” crew members on the Intreped.

[TheOtherOne]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Does Beverly Crusher have some weird super genes because both her sons (who have different daddies) have super powers. 

Probably. All those generations of Howard women fucking an anaphasic alien could have had an effect on the gene pool.

[paigow]

Ro was a passenger on Intrepid... She was Starfleet Intelligence, not crew... so sacrificing The Many to kill The Few probably crossed her mind

33 minutes ago, marinw said:

That makes sense, Ro knew that there are still lots of “real” crew members on the Intreped.

 

[tennisgurl]

Of all the TNG characters to come back I didn't see one of them being Ro, now back in Starfleet, which I was really happy about. Her story always seemed unfinished, if I remember right they planned on bringing her back but Michelle Forbes was busy, so her coming back for closure was much appreciated, even if it did end with her dying. I don't love how many TNG characters are brought back to this show just to die, its pretty depressing, but at least Ro got to go out like a badass after getting to make peace with Picard. 

I thought this was a strong overall episode, everything with Ro was some of the best stuff this show has done so far, great performances from Michelle Forbes and Patrick Stewart, it was really well written, and it managed to wring out some of that TNG nostalgia while advancing this new plot.  The rest was pretty good, even if I am not all that interested in Jack and whatever weird visions he's having. Didn't we do this about six times on Discovery? Remember how that show only started to get really interesting when those stopped? 

Changlings have "evolved" so now we get an excuse as to why they are acting differently than they did in DS9. I would say that this is not at all how evolution works, but its all possible that someone is messing around with their genetics on purpose, or its also possible that the franchise that thinks that humans evolving super fast means they turn into giant slugs isn't totally sure how evolution works. 

"That time you threw the Prime Directive out the window to snog a villager" is just about the best description of Insurrection I can think of. 

With the Janaway shout out, I suspect that we might get a cameo at the end where she shows up to bail the heroes out of trouble at the last minute. 

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"That time you threw the Prime Directive out the window to snog a villager" is just about the best description of Insurrection I can think of. 

Picard: That douchebag Admiral did it first... for SPA Treatments...

[dwmarch]

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"That time you threw the Prime Directive out the window to snog a villager" is just about the best description of Insurrection I can think of. 

It's a bit of low blow to Picard though. He discovers and reports that since the Baku are an advanced civilization that have chosen an agrarian lifestyle, Prime Directive concerns do not apply. But having said that, he didn't know that going in. Still, there are plenty of other examples in the "Prime Directive? More like Prime Suggestion!" category that Shaw could have picked from.

This also seems like a good place to mention that I wish they had used the Briar Patch as an opportunity to explain the eternal Soong. On Enterprise, Arik Soong planned to escape there and had taken an interest in cybernetics. So it was possible for Noonien Soong to actually be Arik, having been kept young by the metaphasic radiation and only leaving the planet once things with the Sona got messy. And this would have explained why the Baku villagers were casually familiar with what a positronic matrix was and the specific problem with Data's.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Unpopular opinion:  I never cared for the character Ro.  At all.

[paigow]

58 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Still, there are plenty of other examples in the "Prime Directive? More like Prime Suggestion!" category that Shaw could have picked from.

Captain Barbossa: Not a directive per se... more like guidelines

[Biggie B]

11 hours ago, Paloma said:

What is the deal with the whispering that Jack keeps hearing?

I felt like he was hearing other Changelings in the Great Link, or whatever their home 'world' of goop was called. When they're all in the liquid together, can't they hear each other's thoughts in some manner?

[Ottis]

19 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Changelings would find it much easier to hide as a piece of furniture. Something that would easily not arouse any suspicions. Why are they trying to destroy or overthrow Starfleet?

The same reason the bug parasites tried in ST: TNG? I'm going to assume power and domination. The similarity in this Picard plot to that ep is one of my few disappointments this season, which has been the best Picard season so far, IMO.

20 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Poor Shaw, at this point I think he just wants to jump out the nearest airlock and take his chances, 😂. 

Heh. I'm kind of enjoying his discomfort. I like the character, even if I think he looks and sounds like a skinnier, more angry version of Ray Barrone's brother, Robert, in (in Robert's voice now) "Everrrrrrrry-body Loves Raymond."

10 hours ago, chaifan said:

And I really don't care at all about Jack.  We've seen this in so many shows - someone has latent super-spy/assassin skills that pop up at just the right moment, always accompanied by nightmares of some past they can't remember. 

He's the least interesting part of the show for me, but I am pretty sure that, at the end, he will "be the key" to beating the bad guys.

[mrspidey]

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Does Beverly Crusher have some weird super genes because both her sons (who have different daddies) have super powers

Being descended from generations of Crusher women who were all fucking the same ghost, does that to your genes  i guess?

[Pallas]

I agree that these Changelings probably can't shape-shift into inanimate objects: a trade-off for their blood and guts and their ability to retain their form. I wonder, though, if all of the shape-shifters we've seen so far are true Changelings -- members of the Founders splinter group. Perhaps the splinter group engineered these more humanoid shape-shifters to serve as fodder in this particular war?

Beverly must be right when she speculated that various forces are after Jack because of Jean-Luc: because of their own connection to Jean-Luc, not just Jack's. To me, this indicates that Jack isn't a Changeling, despite the many hints pointing that way. There is no connection between Changelings and Picard, but there is a very strong connection between the Borg and Picard. And Seven. And Shaw, who growled that "the real Borg are still out there" in the Delta Quadrant (while rolling his eyes at the Stargazer Compact variety: another bad review for Season 2!). 

Meanwhile, Jack's visions and powers both seem to be getting stronger the longer he is in proximity to two ex-Borg. Female voices urge him to "make the connections," "come home" and "find me," along with vision-Seven's telling him to "follow the branches." As far as we know, no Borg nor ex-Borg besides Picard has become a parent. Did Jean-Luc pass on some Borg something to his son? And if so, are the "real Borg" aware, and are they, perhaps, in alliance with the rogue Changelings? 

 

[Wouter]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:27 PM, paigow said:

Janeway was unable / unwilling to help Ro, she will be equally useless in the future...

I doubt she could even reach Janeway. Ro said she didn't get past her "gatekeepers", who may not forward such requests to Janeway.

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I actually really liked the Picard/Ro stuff.  I mean she just basically vanished from the show and was never heard from or about again and this was a reasonable explanation of what she was up to since.

As for the Janeway allusions.   I am guessing that the people surrounding her are not giving her the information she needs.   She might have gotten complacent over the years and the Changelings might be giving her the wrong information.    It would be interesting to have Picard rush in with the correct intel and the scene that would bring.

I also liked the episode, perhaps the best of S3 so far. While earlier emotional conflicts felt forced (particularly the one between Riker and Picard that was resolved very quickly) and I dislike the TNG bunch running the ship in episode 4 (with the actual crew, including the captain and the main helmswoman, being reduced to spectators or figurants on their own ship), the meeting between Ro and Picard really resonated. At least it was something left hanging from TNG where the conflict feels very appropriate, and where a form of resolution gets welcomed.

Particularly well done was that they managed to keep the audience in doubt whether or not Ro was a changeling. While they made such a big deal of Picard's suspicions that I suspected it was the actual Ro, they did keep me doubting until Picard pulled his holo-phaser on her without anyone firing.

And though Jack Crusher is not my favourite character and Picard not knowing about him is melodramatic in a rather bad way, at least I have the impression they are going somewhere with this particular mystery box.

11 hours ago, rtms77 said:

As for Janeway, Prodigy takes place well before this show doesn’t? Or are they in the same year?

Prodigy takes place some 15-20 years before Picard S3 (Prodigy is in 2384 or 2385 I think, unclear when exactly Picard S3 takes place but it's later than 2400).

[Prevailing Wind]

I'm watching TNG on PlutoTV and the episode "Half a Life" just aired - the one with David Odgen Stiers having to die when he reaches 65 & Lwaxana being appalled by it.  His daughter is played by Michelle Forbes.  ...so I went to imdb. She was in 9 TNG episodes - this one, and as Ro Laren, 6 in S.5 and 1 each in seasons 6 & 7.  And in more than half of one of those, she was played by a kid. I really liked her as a kid and it made me appreciate her more as an adult. And I can understand why she ran off with the Maquis.  I never understood why any assertive, "lone wolf" type personality would join the military, much less Starfleet.

[ML89]

3 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Unpopular opinion:  I never cared for the character Ro.  At all.

Me either. 

[Emily Thrace]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

I doubt she could even reach Janeway. Ro said she didn't get past her "gatekeepers", who may not forward such requests to Janeway.

Which might mean Seven might have a chance to get through. We might get a Voyager reunion  yet.

In regards to Ryan vs Mulgrew. I always got the impression Jeri Ryan blamed those in charge and Bermanga in particular rather than any specific cast member. (Which makes sense since one of them is her ex). Reading between the lines from a few different  sources (RDM's experience on Voyager jibes with this too) that the rot on that was from the top down and that Bermanga's particular brand of control issues and lack of people skills created a fairly toxic work environment. Mulgrew was mostly  just towing the line and has apologized. (Braga still never really apologized to RDM who was his writing partner last I heard.) In the case of Jeri Ryan's  introduction I think she blames the people who allowed the bullying to happen more than anyone which is fair imo.

I think Jack Crusher is part of how the changelings have evolved. He was part of the medical team or accidentally stole some of their tech. He has some piece of their new secret and that's why they want him back. 

[Cthulhudrew]

If we see Amanda Schull and Emily Hampshire show up, I will be convinced this is a 12 Monkeys crossover season.

On 3/16/2023 at 11:31 AM, paigow said:

Krinn must be  descended from the Sybok family tree... Who ends up being a criminal because it is Miguel Fucking Alvarez!

I'm not sure I understand the logic that there can be no Utopia without crime, but I'll give them points for at least having the character believe his criminality was a logical vocation.

On 3/16/2023 at 11:44 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I wish they had some more interplay between Ro and Riker, because they too had an interesting relationship. They were very antagonistic toward each other at first, and then they ended up sleeping together, and Riker was partners with Ro on that last mission of hers.

Agree on you with this point. Their interaction was so brief and curt that I was beginning to think I'd imagined they'd been intimate partners in ST:TNG.

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"That time you threw the Prime Directive out the window to snog a villager" is just about the best description of Insurrection I can think of. 

That was a little bit of a low blow. That's almost a rite of passage for a Starfleet captain.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Agree on you with this point. Their interaction was so brief and curt that I was beginning to think I'd imagined they'd been intimate partners in ST:TNG.

She was probably involved with Tom Riker [literally a perfect copy of Will] after he joined the Maquis... it likely ended badly and she was projecting...

[iMonrey]

Quote

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Preemptive_Strike_(episode)
This was the second to last TNG episode.

Thanks dwmarch. I went back and re-watched this episode. (Wow. The special effects really do not hold up! 😆 )

I never really cared for the character of Ro Laren. I always found her to be too joyless and abrasive. Appropriately so, admittedly, but nevertheless, not entertaining to watch. The only time I liked her was when she turned into a 12-year old in "Rascals."

I'm still bored with the Raffi and Worf subplot. As much as I like seeing Worf again every time the story shifts to them I just groan and want to get back to the Titan. Hopefully the two plots will join together now.

[starri]

15 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I'm not sure I understand the logic that there can be no Utopia without crime, but I'll give them points for at least having the character believe his criminality was a logical vocation.

I mean, we’ve seen Vulcan terrorists before, so I don’t think a mafioso who logicced a justification is too far-fetched.

[ML89]

I’ve come over to the Dark Side and I now think Shaw is hilarious. Him singing his little song and telling the gang to get their bullshit stories straight made me smile.

Speaking of the Dark Side, Worf apparently was studying at the Qui Gonn Jin School of Fighting. He needed to be catching up on his James West & Eliot Spencer instead. Whoever choreographed that training session with Raffi & Worf must have been watching Stargate Atlantis because that was Ronon vs Teyla. Also, districts? Hunger Games too? When are they leaving Bladerunner World - no wonder everyone runs when they arrive!

How did Ro know that Jack Crusher was Picard’s kid? Did they tell Starfleet that? (It also reminds me of Force Awakens and making a big deal of Kylo being Han’s son and not Leia’s too. Ugh).

Edited March 18, 2023 by ML89