S01.E03: Long Long Time

[iMonrey]

This was the first episode I found truly engaging. TBH, I haven't really been invested in the show until now. The first two episodes just seemed like any other generic post-apocalypse show, a genre I'm mostly tired of. I never played the game and I've never seen Anna Torv in anything so I didn't really care about Tess either.

First off, paring the story down to just Joel and Ellie, out there alone together, was much more interesting to me than goon squads and zombie hoards and raiders in fight scenes and chase scenes. Some really nice character study there. This is much more of what I was expecting to see on this show. Or hoping to anyway.

Then the flashback. Surprisingly compelling and well acted. Of course, adding Nick Offerman is always a good move, but from previews I wasn't expecting his character to be isolated to a flashback one-off. 

Side note - is Murray Bartlett in everything these days? I swear he's been on every show I watch lately.

Anyway I'm not sure if this episode was just an anomaly or if it will maintain this kind of interesting story-telling, but I definitely liked it.

Quote

And Ramsey mostly plays Ellie as a teenager on a fun field trip with an air of 'this is so cool!' 

Thank God. I'd much rather have that than another mopey, emo teen. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by iMonrey

[khyber]

Amazing episode. I was still crying this morning just replaying it and the song in my head.  So ALS or MS?

[Penman61]

Slightly tangential, but really respect the unflinching, unresolved anger in the song "Long Long Time," which doesn't try to tidy up some very intense and messy feelings about unrequited love. (Even that fancy word "unrequited" is gussying up the emotion.)

Ronstadt's shouting of the final "...everything I know to try and make you mine..." is perfect. And the song even ends on a minor chord! Sometimes these feelings just don't resolve...

Edited January 30, 2023 by Penman61

[Constantinople]

I keep going back and forth about whether Joel should have buried Bill and Frank.

And I'm leaving "It's the right thing or decent thing" out of it.

That house will deteriorate a lot faster with an open window, particularly in winter. Close the window and you've got a nice supply base.

On the other hand you may end up doing work that will end up benefiting someone else and Joel may also have no plans to ever return to the Boston area.

[Racj82]

15 hours ago, Demian said:

That said:  Of course The Gays are going to be the ones to preserve art, and music, and fashion, and fine dining, and gracious living, even in the teeth of an apocalypse, while The Straights immediately abandon everything -- including a fundamental sense of humanity, as evinced by the mass grave of the uninfected -- in favor of basic survival.  I feel like I should be offended by that, but the performances from Offerman and Bartlett sold me so completely on their story that I don't really care.

Actually, one gay man wanted to preserve those things. One gay man did not care about any of that and just wanted to survive.

I'm sure there are plenty of people of all genders, races and creeds in the pit and doing the killing.

Frank simply wanted to preserve some sense of normalcy inside of their community. He longed for connection to others and community outside of themselves. Bill found his person. That's all he needed. That would or could happen to any couple in this situation.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Racj82

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

When did Tess tell Ellie that Frank and Bill weren't good people? (I might be misunderstanding your pronoun reference here.)

During the Walk Of Exposition...

Ellie: Are Bill and Frank nice?

Joel: Frank is.

[Penman61]

20 minutes ago, paigow said:

During the Walk Of Exposition...

Ellie: Are Bill and Frank nice?

Joel: Frank is.

Anela corrected me upthread, that Tess was referring to herself and Joel, not Bill and Frank.

[DigitalCount]

I have to say I'm a little surprised about the Primetimer article about this episode, but I suppose this world takes all kinds. I thought it was beautiful and breathtaking myself.

Edit: anyone who hasn't played the game should probably not read it. I myself haven't and managed to scroll past spoilers, but others might not be so lucky.

Edited January 30, 2023 by DigitalCount

[Penman61]

I don't agree with the Primetimer argument, but I appreciate them making it. 

I don't think we'll know if this episode is "cloying" (their term) until we see the arc of the entire series (at least 2 seasons now).

For me, I thought it was novel to show two decent* people surviving more-or-less fine in the zombie apocalypse. Now, if every few weeks we have a similar story of decency thriving, that will indeed be cloyingly unbelievable. We're talking about humans here, after all. 

But one hour out of 20+ showing that a capable, prepared survivalist could keep himself and partner alive and thriving...that was new to me. (Also, representation still matters.)

I also thought it was thematically important to touch base again about WHY you want to do more than "survive."

*I mean, zombie apocalypse shows have shown TERRIBLE people thriving, but that's an important difference.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Penman61

[Ilovepie]

What a beautiful, quiet episode. Not playing the game, I loved it. It's so rare to see someone survive the apocalypse and live "normally" for not just a few months (I'm looking at you Walking Dead), but a lifetime. And that Frank and Bill, two people who would probably never have met in pre-fungus years, found the loves of their life like this was wonderful. Every scene just added to the whole picture so much that by the end it's heartbreaking, and yet, I found it weirdly hopeful at the same time. They survived to old age and died with dignity on their own terms, not from violence from raiders or FEDRA or fungus people. Could Frank have lived longer had this happened in an age where treatment was available for whatever was wrong with him? Maybe, but as someone who has watched a loved one suffer through multiple rounds of chemo and still succumb to fucking cancer, it's hard not to see that this is in some ways a more peaceful way to go. Anyway, lots to think about, so good on them......

This show is doing an amazing job creating fully realized characters in a short time. My favorite moments were when Frank showed Bill the strawberries and their joy over them, and Ellie's amazement of riding in a car for the first time. It's the little things...

[driver18]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Thank God. I'd much rather have that than another mopey, emo teen. 

This is in response to my:  "And Ramsey mostly plays Ellie as a teenager on a fun field trip with an air of 'this is so cool!'"

The alternative is not a mopey, emo teen, though. My point was that we're not getting any layers or nuance to the fact that Ellie is going through some serious, horrific shit. Let her be dealing with it internally. Give us a glimpse that she is being effected by this. Moments here and where she takes it all in and then pastes on that 'Fuck it' attitude. 'I'm out here in the world, and I'm gonna enjoy the fucking view, Goddamnit!' But we aren't getting those layers at all. And so because of that the teenage girl who was held chained up for a few weeks, chased by zombies, watched a person savagely beaten to death, someone kind to her blown up, walked by a mass gravesite, and then just blithely how-to-do's merrily along her way comes across as a bit of a psychopath.

That is the issue for me. All of this horror can't happen to someone and we see no sign of it effecting that individual without coming to the conclusion that something ain't right with that person. Or alternately, the actor just isn't that great.

[Whimsy]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Sorry, wasn't thinking. I assumed the Game vs Show thread probably contained spoilers for the show, which I'm trying to avoid. Am I wrong about that?

It may, which is why the tag was added. 

[magdalene]

I am thinking Ellie is a lot tougher than people would assume. I didn't see her killing that buried infected ex-person as a mercy killing. I saw it as a mixture of cold calculation and anger and rage.  And Joel's ruthlessness is exactly what she likes about him. Remember her facial expression when he beat that guard to death in the first episode.

[Dev F]

16 minutes ago, driver18 said:

The alternative is not a mopey, emo teen, though. My point was that we're not getting any layers or nuance to the fact that Ellie is going through some serious, horrific shit. Let her be dealing with it internally. Give us a glimpse that she is being effected by this. Moments here and where she takes it all in and then pastes on that 'Fuck it' attitude. 'I'm out here in the world, and I'm gonna enjoy the fucking view, Goddamnit!' But we aren't getting those layers at all.

Are we not? That's exactly how I'm reading her behavior; she's not sneaking away to find a gun and stab infected in the face because she's actually as devil-may-care as she claims.

[Capricasix]

OK I’m replying before reading any posts!

I was okay until the “last day”, and then they went and played “On the Nature of Daylight”, which I have loved ever since it was used in Arrival. Cue the tears 🥺🥺🥺

I think Joel is broken by Tess’s death, but he’s so used to keeping his emotions buried that he can’t show any sign of them to Ellie.

I had to laugh when they were downstairs in the bunker and she saw all the guns on the wall. She was so hopeful that Joel would let her have one 😄 Of course, now that she has one in her backpack, she’s gonna have to use it at some point!

[Msample]

I must say I was a bit confused trying to figure out where Joel and Ellie were in the first scene, in that little wooded gorge. I was shocked when the screep cap said "10 miles west of Boston ) . Um, no. That looked like it was shot out west, LOL. 

The Cumberland Farms was a nice region specific call out. Only thing missing was a Dunkin nearby. 

[Sian]

I read the article here and appreciate the author's take.  It can be as frustrating, I imagine, to see a deviation in characters and plot from a game to a television series as it is from a beloved book to a film.  That said, with very few exceptions, they are not intended to be identical and it is in the reimagining they they become their own entity and can, in rare instances, even surpass the source material.

 I've never played the game, so I cannot speak to whether that is the case here, but both my husband and I were profoundly moved by Episode 3.  Everything about it from the acting and writing, the pacing, music (or lack thereof), and cinematography was perfection and beg for award nominations across the board.  The performances and dialogue were so nuanced as to feel achingly real; the love story played out with masterful restraint.  Yes, it was a tragedy of sorts because they both died, but that happens to us all.  For me, it was more a story of how two people in the midst of unspeakable horror found a way to truly LIVE.  This episode will remain with me for a long time.

[Capricasix]

3 minutes ago, Msample said:

I must say I was a bit confused trying to figure out where Joel and Ellie were in the first scene, in that little wooded gorge. I was shocked when the screep cap said "10 miles west of Boston ) . Um, no. That looked like it was shot out west, LOL. 

Well, it was filmed in Alberta 😄

Ellie may not be showing the effects of what she’s seen and done - yet - but she is only 14, and 14-year-olds are still so young. Maybe she’s not reacting the way we think we would in a similar situation, but then again she’s grown up in a very different world than we have. Remember what Tess said in the first ep? “These kids who’ve grown up post-pandemic - they never learned how to argue.” And Ellie was raised in a FEDRA orphanage - god only knows what horrors she’s seen in her 14 years of life.

[aghst]

One of the reasons I was interested in watching is because of Mazin and his track record.

If it was just a straight adaptation of the video game by Druckmann or someone who doesn't have quite the track record, I'd have been more skeptical.

Episodes like this one vindicates Mazin's role, greatly improving on the basic game narrative.

[Absurda]

I'm really not a fan of throw away episodes that focus on minor characters we'll never see again so, while I understand all the praise for the episode, I didn't like it.  Especially since there as so few episodes to start with.  It slowed the action down to a crawl without advancing the story much. 

I did build the world a bit more with the mass grave and the raiders.  But the only story advances were Joel getting the truck and Ellie getting Checkov's gun.

I did like the small beats of Joel not wanting Ellie to see the bones and that it looks like he and Tess were together a lot longer than I'd thought. 

[aghst]

Read on another forum that the cut scenes in the first TLOU game add up to 2 hours.

They are slated to have 9 episodes in season 1.

So they may need "filler" episodes to produce 9 episodes but standalone episodes can still be pretty great.

[PurpleTentacle]

This episode was gaaaaay. I love it.

During Parks and Rec, who could have known what a phantastic actor Nick Offerman would turn out to be. But then everybody of the main cast turned out great. Probably have to remwatch that show at some point. Just hard to look past Chris Pratts private stuff...

I always wonder how gay guys on film recognise each other. I would be totally lost without apps.

Without being able to compare and contrast there is sadly not much more I can say...

[iMonrey]

Quote

I must say I was a bit confused trying to figure out where Joel and Ellie were in the first scene, in that little wooded gorge. I was shocked when the screep cap said "10 miles west of Boston ) . Um, no. That looked like it was shot out west, LOL. 

Also, when they saw the plane wreckage on the hill, the backdrop looked extremely fake to me, like a painting. That's what you get with 4K Ultra I guess. 

Quote

I read the article here and appreciate the author's take.  It can be as frustrating, I imagine, to see a deviation in characters and plot from a game to a television series as it is from a beloved book to a film.  That said, with very few exceptions, they are not intended to be identical and it is in the reimagining they they become their own entity and can, in rare instances, even surpass the source material.

Interesting to me the main objection was the deviation from the games. Which I have no knowledge of or interest in whatsoever. So I loved it.

Ellie examining the basement zombie had shades of Season 2 Walking Dead Carl messing around with the zombie stuck in the mud. 

[jane1978]

I quess I´m just too cold and cynical but I was mostly bored. The whole Bill/Frank story was so predictable and dragged on and on and on. It was like the first twenty minutes of movie Up, only featuring two gays instead and extended to a whole hour. It WAS beautifully filmed and acted but meant zero for the main plot. 

Also, it seems very weird FEDRA has not been doing any sweeps of the evacuated villages looking for supplies. And that the raiders never returned with more firepower after their initial attempt to take over the compound failed. Why would people be so desperate to get into QZ´s if they can just take over some townhouse, start grow vegetables, shoot animals and lead a relatively nice life.

I just hope this is not how the show wants to fill the time. I know the amount of obstacles Joel and Ellie can face on their journey is limited and it´s inevitable there will be more side stories, but this is really not that different from what the latest seasons of Fear of the Walking dead attempted to do. If the show is just 15 minutes of Joel and Ellie and 50+ minutes of some meaningfull stories for originally minor NPC characters we never see again I´m out.

[PurpleTentacle]

18 hours ago, Demian said:

Man, the rabid gameboys are going to freak the fuck out when they see all the gay.

Doubt it. See game thread.

17 hours ago, Starchild said:

So Frank and Bill weren't in the game? Or they were but not like this? Or they were just mentioned in a backhanded comment?

We aren't allowed to say. Go over to the game vs. show thread for answers. I don't think it's too spoilery yet.

That's the problem with these boards. People want background information, but it's only allowed in threads potentially full of spoilers. It's very frustrating.

16 hours ago, Dev F said:

Bill was a conspiracy theorist who thought that George W. Bush did 9/11 to usher in his Nazi regime

"You believe the government are all Nazis!"

"The government are all Nazis!"

"Well yeah, now. But they weren't back then."

That one was great.

14 hours ago, Coptop77 said:

Loved this episode so much! So happy to see White Lotus Armand again, he is incredible in every role. My only beef at all would be that Joel hasn’t really aged in 20 yrs, and he was old enough to have a teen daughter when the pandemic hit so he should have aged more like Frank and Bill by the time they died. But honestly the show is fantastic and Joel is foxy as can be so I’m happy getting lost in the episodes. 

They had made him a bit younger in the first episode. Here they forgot, it seems. Though that's probably hard to nail down.

In the first episode he was 36, now he is a spry 56.

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

How did Bill survive a shot to the gut?

Seemed very much to one side and Offerman has a bit of heft to him, so I'm going to say nothing vital was hit.

8 hours ago, paigow said:

Who shot Bill? An infected? Why not shoot the keypad instead?

Joel warned them that raiders would be coming eventually. So no infected.

Why shoot the keypad? That does nothing, unless you are in a bad movie.

4 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

I have to say I'm a little surprised about the Primetimer article about this episode, but I suppose this world takes all kinds. I thought it was beautiful and breathtaking myself.

Edit: anyone who hasn't played the game should probably not read it. I myself haven't and managed to scroll past spoilers, but others might not be so lucky.

So we aren't allowed to compare and contrast what has already happened in the show, with the game here, but the Primetimer article of the episode has outright spoilers in it? Well that's "fun".

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Read on another forum that the cut scenes in the first TLOU game add up to 2 hours.

There is probably a reason those were cut though. Bringing back cut scenes is seldom a good idea.

15 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Also, when they saw the plane wreckage on the hill, the backdrop looked extremely fake to me, like a painting. That's what you get with 4K Ultra I guess. 

I didn't see anything wrong with the background, but the plane itself looked very fake, even in 1080p.

16 minutes ago, jane1978 said:

Also, it seems very weird FEDRA has not been doing any sweeps of the evacuated villages looking for supplies. And that the raiders never returned with more firepower after their initial attempt to take over the compound failed. Why would people be so desperate to get into QZ´s if they can just take over some townhouse, start grow vegetables, shoot animals and lead a relatively nice life.

FEDRA did sweep the village. Bill was just hiding in the bunker, with all of his supplies. Why would they spent resources to re-sqeep villages they "know" are empty?

The raiders can probably find targets with less resistance. This isn't the walking dead, where groups are fine with getting half their people murdered every few weeks. The raiders are human too. They don't want to lose any of their own. So even if they could take Bill's compound, it would likely come at much too high a cost.

Most people don't have a well fortified neighbourhood in the middle of nowhere. So the QZs are still the better option for most.

[overtherainbow]

Well, that was a gay storyline no one was expecting but it worked so well and hit me harder than expected. Moral of the story, love is possible anywhere and everywhere, even after the world ends. I think that's what makes this show so much better than the Walking Dead, it's full of intricate storylines and fleshed out characters. I'm really excited to see where the next episode goes. This was probably my favorite so far. 

[aghst]

4 minutes ago, overtherainbow said:

Well, that was a gay storyline no one was expecting but it worked so well and hit me harder than expected. Moral of the story, love is possible anywhere and everywhere, even after the world ends. I think that's what makes this show so much better than the Walking Dead, it's full of intricate storylines and fleshed out characters. I'm really excited to see where the next episode goes. This was probably my favorite so far. 

Yeah TWD never showed what their characters were living for.  Bill and Frank, and probably Joel later, will be depicted as having reasons for doing what they do, beyond mere survival or defeating the other guys.

Station 11 is also more spiritual than TWD but I don't know if I quite bought that those characters lived to just put on Shakespeare.  IIRC, there was no reason to believe by the end that they had a chance to restore civilization in some way.

Maybe TLOU show will convey that hope.

[Twillahiss]

I followed the link here from the essay posted on the main site and I'm glad to see so many people loved this episode as much as I did. The author of the essay seemed particularly annoyed by the changes from the game and made some rather vicious jabs at the story and the actors themselves. It was unpleasant reading.

"To call "Long Long Time" saccharine is something of an understatement — it's the kind of overly sentimental romantic tragedy (if you can even call it that) whose every single beat is telegraphed from the get-go. Peter Hoar, who directed the episode, presents this all with an exhaustingly heavy hand, removing any real stakes for the characters that might exist in the world by simply moving onto the next scene of domestic mundanity or vague danger as soon as he can. The episode breezes through a decade of watching these characters interact, undercutting any attempt at emotional or narrative growth for these characters, and neither Offerman nor Bartlett can sell any of the emotional weight of their relationship."
 

[aghst]

Couples are always sentimental about "their song" but has one song been an aphrodisiac like that?

Only in the movies and TV right?

I only know Ronstadt's hits somewhat.  Never had one of her albums so I wouldn't know this relatively-obscure song.

What are the odds this song meant so much to both of them?  It may have really spoken to Bill, believing that love wasn't in the cards for him.  But Frank seems the more gregarious kind, like the only reason he'd be alone was because he lost someone.

[diebartdie]

5 hours ago, Absurda said:

I'm really not a fan of throw away episodes that focus on minor characters we'll never see again so, while I understand all the praise for the episode, I didn't like it.  Especially since there as so few episodes to start with.  It slowed the action down to a crawl without advancing the story much.

Well, according to the writers/show runners, this entire episode  underlined, highlighted and expanded on the theme of the show

Quote

One of the things that I remember from the game was that Bill was safe. I love the concept that he had built this oasis of safety, there was an allusion to his relationship with Frank, and I just started thinking that there was an opportunity there. That there was an opportunity to, first of all, help people understand how the passage of time functioned between the outbreak to now, but also to really dig into the point of the show, which is the nature of love. Two very different kinds of love and how those two kinds of love need each other.

n the best of circumstances, you get what you get with Bill and Frank, which is a success. They win regardless of how it ends. They win. They have a happy ending. But then we will see over and over throughout the season this dynamic repeat itself, and it isn’t always successful and sometimes it’s deadly. We continually have to wonder, as Joel and Ellie begin to bond permanently to each other: is this going to be dangerous or not? Because they’re both dangerous people. And what kind of love are we going to see exhibited when this is all said and done?

i09

 

[Lamima]

I loved this episode. It was really good and fantastically acted. However my thing (not a game player here) is how was their story important to the main story? So Joel goes and gets a truck and stuff from there. Just hoping it's not like TWD with showing us characters for a day, or a  few, and expecting us to be all vested in them. When they are a tiny drop in the story bucket. So they fleshed out 2 characters and also killed them all in the same episode. A waste of time a bit. Would be nice to tie their story back in here and there along the way. Maybe they'll come back to the compound and use it as a base at times. Agree with above that he should have buried them and closed the window.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Lamima

[Helena Dax]

I loved it and I certainly see a point to their story: it's a reminder to Joel, who was probably getting too hardened again after Tess's death. If we hadn't seen them together through the last fifteen or so years, the letter wouldn't have the same effect on us and we wouldn't understand why it has such effect on Joel. 

Regarding Ellie, while I agree that behaviour looks a bit off sometimes, I believe that her background has been so different that she's simply too used to death. There's a book about a Holocaust survivor who was about fifteen when he was sent to the camps and at some point he started to see everything that was happening as normal. You can get used to horror and Ellie hasn't known any other kind of existence.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Lamima said:

Maybe they'll come back to the compound and use it as a base at times. Agree with above that he should have buried them and closed the window.

Unless the gate closed automatically after they drove away, the town will be a wasteland in a few months...

[bilgistic]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That's the problem with these boards. People want background information, but it's only allowed in threads potentially full of spoilers. It's very frustrating.

...

So we aren't allowed to compare and contrast what has already happened in the show, with the game here, but the Primetimer article of the episode has outright spoilers in it? Well that's "fun".

My take on this: There are people who are coming to this story with no game knowledge and don't want to be spoiled with game information ("what happened in the game...") because it can hint at something that could happen later.

The Primetimer homepage isn't the boards. It's my understanding that most of the writers for the Primetimer articles are freelancers.

Edited January 31, 2023 by bilgistic

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, Twillahiss said:

The episode breezes through a decade of watching these characters interact, undercutting any attempt at emotional or narrative growth for these characters, and neither Offerman nor Bartlett can sell any of the emotional weight of their relationship."

Was that author watching the same show as me? I was crushed under that emotional weight.

[paigow]

FYI... Lincoln, MA exists IRL...

Lincoln is a town in Middlesex County, Massachusetts. The population was 7,014 according to the 2020 United States Census, including residents of Hanscom Air Force Base that live within town limits.Wikipedia

[wanderingstar]

I wasn't prepared for the heartbreak of this episode. What a beautiful, tender love story. Just watching Bill and Frank take joy in the simplest of things like tasting strawberries was lovely. I said last week that this show stresses me out. I didn't expect it to make me cry as well.

The losses keep piling up on poor Joel. Damn.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Gillian Rosh

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:54 PM, Lamima said:

I loved this episode. It was really good and fantastically acted. However my thing (not a game player here) is how was their story important to the main story? So Joel goes and gets a truck and stuff from there. Just hoping it's not like TWD with showing us characters for a day or few and expecting us to be all vested into them when they are a tiny drop in the story bucket. So they fleshed out 2 characters and also killed them all in the same episode. A waste of time a bit. Would be nice to tie their story back in here and there along the way. Maybe they'll come back to the compound and use it as a base at times. Agree with above that he should have buried them and closed the window.

Ways it is potentially important to the plot of what comes next and/or to our understanding of Joel and Ellie as characters:

1. Joel gets a powerful reminder post-mortem from Bill to protect those he can, reinforcing his motivation to protect Ellie.

2. Joel gets a couple gut-punches in a row. After having just lost Tess, his lover and partner of more than a decade, he now learns that he has lost his trading contacts of a similar length of time. Arguably, this fuels his determination to find his brother, who may or may not be one of his few remaining long-term contacts left. We can reflect on how he deals with them. Or arguably, his reaction to how Frank and Bill chose to go out on their own terms reminded him that Tess chose her own fate, as Ellie said, and to get over in some limited fashion his loss. 

3. The preparedness of Bill & Frank allows Joel and Ellie to gear up and prepare for the road trip ahead. Without them, Joel and Ellie would not have food, transportation or equipment that they will need for their journey.

4. Thanks to Bill & Frank, Ellie has a Chekov's gun that Joel does not know about. It seems likely that at some point she will use it to save his life and/or infuriate him that despite her having nominally agreed to his rules for the road trip, she is willing to violate them from day one.

5. We get insight to who Joel is through the eyes of Bill's giving him respect as a fellow bad-ass and protector, and the notion that over time Bill could go from barely being able to not point a gun at Joel to having parting words showing his level of respect.

6. We get to see how Joel respects Bill and Frank's wishes. A practical thing would be to close the window to allow the house to be as preserved as possible. But Bill asked them not to go into the bedroom, and so Joel didn't. 

7. We got to see Ellie's joy at such things as taking a hot shower and more of her curiosity about how things were/are outside the limited world she grew up in post-apocalypse. 

8. I think it says volumes about Joel that instead of staying and luxuriating even for an extra day or so at Bill and Frank's, he basically decided to get moving at the earliest opportunity (i.e. as soon as the car battery was fully charged.)

9. It is a piece of worldbuilding to show how post-apocalyptic life is.

10. It gives us some insight into how Joel and Tess managed to make their way to where we saw them in the past two episodes: they would barter stuff that could only be gotten from the QZ for things that Bill and Frank had hoarded over the previous 20 years or could get from the road. 

There might be more character insights or plot developments to be gleaned from this episode, but I think packing all this into the episode that already was full with great performances was masterful. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[giovannif7]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Couples are always sentimental about "their song" but has one song been an aphrodisiac like that?

Only in the movies and TV right?

I only know Ronstadt's hits somewhat.  Never had one of her albums so I wouldn't know this relatively-obscure song.

What are the odds this song meant so much to both of them?  It may have really spoken to Bill, believing that love wasn't in the cards for him.  But Frank seems the more gregarious kind, like the only reason he'd be alone was because he lost someone.

Hardly obscure - Long Long Time was Ronstadt's first Top 40 solo hit. Different Drum, while clearly a Ronstadt song, was attributed to her former country-rock band The Stone Poneys. LLT was all over the radio on AOR and pop stations in the early 70s, as Ronstadt was clearly looked upon as a talented, gorgeous up-and-coming artist by the radio and record industries. I had no problem believing Bill's mother passed along a love of Ronstadt's music, including the messy, aching beauty of Long Long Time - and I'd wager his memory of learning to play it from his mom (based upon his gentle fingering of the keys) so she could sing along is one that Bill had been clinging to since she passed. As for Frank - I didn't get the impression he really knew the song before finding the sheet music, based upon his uptempo, halting playing. I believe the loneliness and pain in Bill's voice as he sang was what initially drew Frank to him - watch Frank's face as Bill plays and sings - leading to the "so who's the girl?" question before going in for that first kiss when the answer was the one he wanted. Offerman and Bartlett were absolutely brilliant throughout - I believed every moment of their relationship.

I've clearly fallen in love with this episode, and have been obsessing over it since first seeing it yesterday. #sorrynotsorry

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Couples are always sentimental about "their song" but has one song been an aphrodisiac like that?

Only in the movies and TV right?

I only know Ronstadt's hits somewhat.  Never had one of her albums so I wouldn't know this relatively-obscure song.

What are the odds this song meant so much to both of them?  It may have really spoken to Bill, believing that love wasn't in the cards for him.  But Frank seems the more gregarious kind, like the only reason he'd be alone was because he lost someone.

I would imagine that chemistry is always an unpredictable thing, but even more so in a post-apocalyptic setting. Between being saved even temporarily from the horrors of the infected, a temporary end to loneliness, having what had to be the first wine in a long time for Frank and having someone appreciate you for the first time in a long time, possibly ever for Bill; a first good meal, and hearing a favorite tune, it wouldn't be surprising to me that there would be some sparks if they found the person at all attractive. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, jane1978 said:

Also, it seems very weird FEDRA has not been doing any sweeps of the evacuated villages looking for supplies. And that the raiders never returned with more firepower after their initial attempt to take over the compound failed. Why would people be so desperate to get into QZ´s if they can just take over some townhouse, start grow vegetables, shoot animals and lead a relatively nice life.

I just hope this is not how the show wants to fill the time. I know the amount of obstacles Joel and Ellie can face on their journey is limited and it´s inevitable there will be more side stories, but this is really not that different from what the latest seasons of Fear of the Walking dead attempted to do. If the show is just 15 minutes of Joel and Ellie and 50+ minutes of some meaningfull stories for originally minor NPC characters we never see again I´m out.

A. Who says FEDRA has not been doing any patrols of the evacuated villages? It could just be the case that Bill has been taking out individual FEDRA people. He obtained that infection scanner he used to confirm Frank's non-infected status somehow and it probably wasn't at a FEDRA bake sale. It also seems like looking for supplies in the evacuated villages 20 years post-apocalypse would not normally be a fruitful endeavor. Plus being the government, they probably have the capacity to make supplies themselves to make foraging for things redundant or at least not worth the risk.

B. Presumably, all of this group of raiders were indeed killed by the traps and Bill's sniping of them. There may not have been yet another wave of this particular group of raiders to return, or there may have been other groups that came later or before. 

C. Most people are not survivalists. If this happened in real life, I'm guessing that most people would not be able to set up a generator, hunt their own food, attend to their own medical needs, and more to the point, live largely in isolation like Bill did before meeting Frank. 

D. If the show keeps up the level of quality of this episode, I'm good with 10 minutes of Joel and Ellie and 50 minutes of great acting, camera work, etc. that has only tangential connections with them for the rest of the series. 

[Capricasix]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Unless the gate closed automatically after they drove away, the town will be a wasteland in a few months...

I thought the same thing, and also that he should close the gate so that he could continue to use the bunker’s supplies in the future…but then I realized that he probably didn’t think he would ever go back to Boston. Tess is dead, so he’s got no reason to go back.

[Raachel2008]

I loved the episode. The acting was fantastic. I know the major points of the game, but not many spoilers, so I had no idea what was going to happen except that they were a couple. Did we know what Frank did before the apocalypse? I was worried he was playing Bill for shelter and food, and was going to turn into a psycho. I'm glad they found each other and fell in love and fought and were friends, and survived as long as they could, like any couple in a long term sucessfull relationship. I enjoyed the small touches, like the pavement getting older, the chipped paint, the shredded flag, how the flowers were not the same as before (not the same high maintenance flowers as from the beggining of their relationship). 

I was pleased they didn't shy away from showing intimacy between two men AND as important as that, two man in their late 40's early 50's and past that.

I want to know what happened in those 10 years between the Tess and Joe visit to Bill and Frank and their escape with Ellie; because both Joe and Tesse are very different. It is not just the clothes or the packing on years, you can see that whatever sort of upper hand they had in their situation changed for the worse. I wonder if FEDRA just became even more totalitarian and crushed small dealers and smugglers like them, or if the number of infected became so high they couldn't travel more and that had an impact on their business - they said they hadn't been in downtown Boston in what, a year?

Loved the small detais, like Joel, the contractor pointing to Bill how is fence was going to fail, and how Ellie was happy to see the  box of tampons and putting toillet paper in her backpack, both Ellie and Joe taking a shower and immediately looking fresh and better and in a good humor. 

Speaking about Ellie, I think she is acting tougher than she really is, but at the same time, she is a child of the post-apocalypse, raised in a Fedra orphanage. They burn children bodies in the middle of the QZ. Fedra kills people on streets and infected without thinking twice. They are on ration cards. Joel talked about pancakes, I was expecting her to say 'I never had a pancake'. This kid is not our 2023 normal world kid. Who is to say that was the first mass grave she ever saw?

For the record, I don't find it bizarre that Ellie is taking the whole thing as a field trip. I think that... attitude, for the lack of a better word, is very common among teenagers, and yes, it is a horrible world, and such, but it is all when there was no hoard around.

Someone mentioned, though, last episode, that the swearing was too much. I'm no prude and swear a lot myself, but I'm over Ellie swearing in all her lines. I never palyed the game, so I don't know it is how the character is or something they decided for the series, but make it stop.

Other than that - Joel and Ellie are at their best together.

[Paws]

Is Joel’s character able to read? Both in this episode and in another he asked someone else to read the letter. Or maybe it’s just that he doesn’t reading glasses and he’s 56.

[Abra]

I get the feeling we're supposed to be rooting for a Joel/Ellie father/daughter type of bond, but after the scene where she killed that infected person (in addition to her attitude in previous eps) Ellie is just reading to me as a sociopath, and I don't root for sociopaths. I actually hadn't considered that it might be the actress not being good enough to show any kind of nuance if that's not how she's supposed to come across, so I guess we'll see in future episodes with what she tries to show vs. what the script is telling us. 

 

[cardigirl]

8 hours ago, Msample said:

I must say I was a bit confused trying to figure out where Joel and Ellie were in the first scene, in that little wooded gorge. I was shocked when the screep cap said "10 miles west of Boston ) . Um, no. That looked like it was shot out west, LOL. 

The Cumberland Farms was a nice region specific call out. Only thing missing was a Dunkin nearby. 

Agree with you about the scenery. I live 10 miles west of Boston and Newton does not have mountains. 🤣

Edited January 31, 2023 by cardigirl

[Kirbyrun]

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

There is probably a reason those were cut though. Bringing back cut scenes is seldom a good idea.

A “cutscene” in video game parlance is not a “scene that was cut,” but rather a scene that does not require player interaction. It’s an animated movie-like scripted scene that comes between the cut from one playable moment to another. 
So in this instance, the length of the accumulated scenes from the game is about two hours. 

[WaltersHair]

There were things I liked and disliked about this episode.

The like: Showing preppers that actually prepped and were successful. I have a friend that is one and so far left in ideology that I have to remind myself the versions we see on TV and in movies are skewed. Second, I liked that there was a successful love story that wasn't teased out for 3 seasons only for one of them to get eaten. That goes for Tess and Bill/Frank.

The Dislike. This episode seemed like it should have come at 5 or 6. It just destroyed the momentum for me. The first two eps are like driving down the highway at 100 miles an hour and then ep 3 was throwing the shift into park.

I think the showrunners were hoping to reel in those who loved Nick O in Fargo when he pushed past the sheriff and said "Out of the way, Tool of the State." His "Not this time Nazi Jackboots" is pretty close.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

how the flowers were not the same as before

I liked the little nuance of Joel looking at the dead marigolds(?) and knowing something was seriously wrong. He knew Bill and Frank would never just let the flowers die.

And because the writing and acting was so good, we knew that too.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Starchild

[40Love]

When Bill burst from kitchen with his gourmet rabbit dish in hand and the wine tucked under his arm, I thought he might be gay. He could barely conceal his excitement... and really wanted to impress this handsome stranger. It was a sweet moment. 

But, I confess, I was a little worried Frank might be con artist or psycho while he was watching Bill play the piano. Heh!