S08.E14: November 15, 2022

[alexa]

Omg.  She is a mess.  He said no!  Let it be.

Edited November 16, 2022 by alexa

[Jules1]

Ency, stop. You could not sound more desperate.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Andrew's "90s" butterfly earring is awesome.

Jessenia is a pretty crier.

[Suzysite]

All that fuss over someone she's known for 2 days?  Have some self respect girl.

[Riplet68]

Did they threaten to kill her dog if she didn’t get Andrew to stay?!?

[Thumper]

Okay, I’ve missed a few shows/weeks.  This Ency woman???  Have they been together (?) about 5 minutes????   Last I watched, Andrew was with someone else (not Teddi; I missed that part).  Ency seems like she just want a guy and is clinging to Andrew, after being bitchy about him talking with other chick.    I like Andrew.  Ency seems like a LOT.  
 

oh boy.  Now we have to listen to her blow her nose… 🙄

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Thumper

[phlebas]

Genevieve has found her patronus.

THAT'S how you have a proper hissy-fit/storm-off.

Too bad for Andrew that Teddi wasn't as into him.

[DEL901]

Teddie left on day 4.  Andrew has spent the last 2 1/2 weeks building it into something it never was.  He needs therapy, not BZiP and not chasing after Teddie who he never really knew.  

[dizzyd]

Well TG this is almost over! I’m done too. This season sucked a lot of life out of me every week. I have to spend the rest of the week resetting. 

[JenE4]

The way Ency pulled Andrew over to the edge of the balcony and wouldn’t let go, I was really worried she was going to take them both over the edge in a murder-suicide. This girl may have just out-crazied Genevieve. She gives him an ultimatum and then begs and pleads over and over hysterical over someone she met yesterday! Good for you, Andrew. You are practically the only reasonable person on this entire beach (along with Michael, Danielle, and Serene). Andrew is a nice, normal guy who wants a nice, normal girl. He’s not playing these games like half of the other couples. Now Ency, Andrew, and Jessenia will be stuck waiting around the airport together. Oops.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Jules1 said:

Lol on Logan’s chyron. Glad Claire’s raccoon came back. One character I don’t mind seeing again.

LOL what was it?  "Four exes"?

This is the first time I've seen Florence in a positive or interesting light, I like how she treated Andrew in a supportive, buddy way.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Jaundiced Eye]

11 minutes ago, SassyCat said:

Ency is  nuts! Scary clingy begging. 

A bunny boiler if ever there was one. What a freaking psycho. She's been there like a day? What the actual fuck is that? Or was she just that desperate not to be sent home if they ever have another rose ceremony?

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 minutes ago, Jules1 said:

Ency, stop. You could not sound more desperate.

[dizzyd]

Hmm maybe they’ll do a double Bachelor with Andrew and Rodney and it will be as successful as Rachel and Gabby where the only relationship at the end will be their bromance. But I’ll still watch so I can bitch about it with y’all. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Oh, what a surprise. Some of these guys get ball pits and ice cream sundaes. Kate’s promposal is once again berating Logan for not being a completely different person that she’s built up in her mind she deserves. Jeez, even Genevieve managed to get a mariachi band without crying at Aaron and running away.

hahahahahahahaha

[Jaundiced Eye]

14 minutes ago, Jules1 said:

Ency, stop. You could not sound more desperate.

She would not let go of his arm. Yes, we know you're begging, nut job. How Andrew managed to not RUN OUT THE DOOR amazed me. I would have been terrified.

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Good for you, Andrew. 

I agree.  It's pretty shitty that he's been hung up on Teddi this whole time and has been leading on woman after woman after woman....... but at the same time tonight he was very mature with both Jessenia and Ency and Ency went full on Alex Forrest in Fatal Attraction Psychopants.

9 minutes ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

A bunny boiler if ever there was one. What a freaking psycho. She's been there like a day? What the actual fuck is that? Or was she just that desperate not to be sent home if they ever have another rose ceremony?

I USED THE EXACT SAME ANALOGY WITHOUT SEEING YOURS FIRST 😄😄😄

I'm going to hear this in my nightmares "Andrew. Andrew. Andrew. Please.  Please.  Andrew.  Please.  Andrew. Please"

That was an even worse reaction than  Brandon's when Rodney left.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

22 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Teddie left on day 4.  Andrew has spent the last 2 1/2 weeks building it into something it never was.  He needs therapy, not BZiP and not chasing after Teddie who he never really knew.  

Aw, I think it's fine.  I don't think it's therapy worthy.  As long as he accepts her answer, it's fine that he has feelings.

[Kiss my mutt]

I have to keep reminding myself who Flo is every time her name is brought up. She’s just been a nonentity to me. 
Ency was freaking me out with that begging. The way she went on like that made me think this isn’t the first time she’d done this. Grow up, girl. 

[SHD]

Hula hoops were not from the 90’s. Try harder, research team - LOL.

My favorite chyron tonight:

[Jules1]

36 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

LOL what was it?  "Four exes"?

This is the first time I've seen Florence in a positive or interesting light, I like how she treated Andrew in a supportive, buddy way.

It was Logan - Can’t Do Anything Right. 😂

[tinkerbell]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Logan wasn't even that bad?  Didn't he get COVID and had to be removed?  Hahhahahahaha.  It's like Rachel Lindsay telling everyone she doesn't want Peter Krause to be The Bachelor.

Yeah the official explanation was covid. But none of the other guys had to be isolated, so it seemed suspect. And there was some rumor floating around (maybe from reality steve?) That Logan got sent home because he was trying to start something up with a crew member on the ship.

If any guy said to me "itching is low level pain, that's a FACT" in that condescending tone, it would be over.

Aaron is an asshole. But so is Genevieve. They deserve each other.

Logan and Kate, same. Two assholes who deserve each other.

Michael and Danielle are boring.

[UGAmp]

This season is just draaaaaaaaaging on. There is no one you are really rooting for either. They all suck. And to think BiP used to be the fun show and you suffered through the regular seasons in order to know these people.

I think jessina thought this was her bachelorette audition. There is just no reason she could have thought she and Andrew actually had a real thing. And if you are so exhausted Jessina, date people in the real world and not once a year on television. Oh, Ency is insane. “Three strikes, you’re out” to “I’m literally begging you to stay.” And they had only known each other for two days!! 

I second the suggestion of a double Rodney/Andrew season! 

They should make a rule you aren’t allowed to be an influencer/make any money as a result of being a part of BN for one year after being on this show (and any subsequent seasons). I’m not saying I think everyone pre-social media came on with true intentions but Instagram has really killed this show. Everyone (especially the girls) just want to get their followers and shill, shill, shill. They act unhinged when their time on the show is threatened (see: Ency). 

[tinkerbell]

How the hell do these women claim ownership of a guy, beg him to stay, get heartbroken,  jealous, controlling, sobbing, etc. even thinking of marriage,after knowing him 48 hours, or 5 days, or whatever?

[chocolatine]

The wardrobe, makeup, and camera people must all hate Rachel, because she looked hideous. Especially her overdrawn lipliner made her look like a clown as she went on and on disparaging Logan.

If a man treated a woman like Kate treats Logan, people would call him a gaslighter or even emotionally abusive, and they would be right. Why isn't Kate getting called out for this behavior?

When Ency first came in I thought she was one of the most stunning women who's ever been on the show and wondered how she was still single, but this episode answered that for me. Her behavior was scary and think production should have intervened when she tried to physically stop Andrew from leaving. Again, this kind of thing would never fly if the genders had been reversed.

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I’m not a fan of the bachelorettes coming onto talk about their experiences with the men. It doesn’t seem fair.

Agreed, they come in and appear bitter. So stupid.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Teddie left on day 4.  Andrew has spent the last 2 1/2 weeks building it into something it never was.  He needs therapy, not BZiP and not chasing after Teddie who he never really knew.  

I still dont get why teddie left - anyone know?

as far as jesseniA, i think she is a mean girl. She came in and said she did not care if anyone had a realtionship, she was there to make herself happy. If shes so tired of picking the wrong guy, ( havent we all been) then get yourself off tv, and date like. Normal person. Yes you came there for a ring, but you cant force andrew to feel something that he doesnt and that does not make him a bad person- hes “ dating”

as far as ency, she is a frightening girl and im sure he was resisting the urge to push her away. 
i hope i never see self righteous and selfish jessenia again.

[nlkm9]

If i have to hear genevieve say “ im done” and pack her bags one more time….. ugh. I wish aaron let her go. You know she was hoping he would cone after her . Eyeroll!!! 

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

I still dont get why teddie left - anyone know?

as far as jesseniA, i think she is a mean girl. She came in and said she did not care if anyone had a realtionship, she was there to make herself happy. If shes so tired of picking the wrong guy, ( havent we all been) then get yourself off tv, and date like. Normal person. Yes you came there for a ring, but you cant force andrew to feel something that he doesnt and that does not make him a bad person- hes “ dating”

as far as ency, she is a frightening girl and im sure he was resisting the urge to push her away. 
i hope i never see self righteous and selfish jessenia again.

Like I said earlier, I had to go look up an old recap.  She was with Justin. Rodney arrived and she was interested and then,….I think she just saw how ridiculous the whole thing was and noped out of all that drama.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

I thought it was also because Teddi is a virgin and she realized she didn't want to deal with all of this

[SassyCat]

The craziest thing is that I don’t believe Ency was so desperately begging Andrew because she was so head over heels in love with him after  two minutes, but for time on the beach, camera time and a rose to extend her time there. It was like life or death for her. The pleading was for an extention of air time, nothing else. That was painful to watch. Seeing her equate her entire reason for living come down to begging Andrew to keep her rosed up and on that beach for a few more days. 
So many of these people have pinned their entire existences on hopes of an instagram future as an income lifestyle. They dont want to work a regular job. 
 

Jessina was for sure giving her Bachlorette audition LOL. Dream on. 
It was very wrong of the production crew to bring in Rachel and Gabby to speak badly about one (Logan) of the men on that beach. WTF? 
I crack up when I think of him referring to the ladies as bees put into a jar and shaken, to rile them up into a frenzy. That was funny 🤣
I think Teddi left because she did not like to break the hearts of the guys who were truly into a serious relationship with her, while she wasn’t feeling the same way about them. Its a terrible feeling to break a heart of one so obviously ready to go all in with you, and you have to back away. Plus the smooching with someone new, right in front of the broken hearted one is, and would be a horrible feeling for her to have to shoulder if she stayed. Hurting someone can feel as bad as being the one who is hurt from your rejection, and she was not going to sit on that beach and see/do that over and over again until she found someone she felt the same about. Good for her! 

[DEL901]

I just realized this is episode 14.  14 two hour episodes for a show that films over a 21 day period.  No wonder it feels like there was tons of filler.  There was.  

So next week is the “choice”…first overnights and then break up/leave and date/ get engaged, followed by the reunion show which should be a train wreck. 

Mild reunion spoiler:

Spoiler

I have read that Teddi skips the reunion show    Good for her   

[phlebas]

Johnny seemed really stressed about telling Victoria his brother is in jail. (Ivan: Hold my beer.)

If Victoria really wanted to make him relax about that, she could have shown him her mugshot.

[Melonie77]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

If a man treated a woman like Kate treats Logan, people would call him a gaslighter or even emotionally abusive, and they would be right. Why isn't Kate getting called out for this behavior?

Kate is just awful - the nastiest and most shallow of all this year's beach bunch. And her mean-streak doesn't appear as if it's an act! Unlike Shanae who was apparently performing and playing a role during Clayton's season, I think Kate is exactly what we see here on the show - a shallow, manipulative, vicious, and self-absorbed person!

I've been watching Dancing with the Stars and following Gabby's journey on that show....On Monday they panned to the audience after Gabby's performance to capture who was there cheering her on and I saw Rachel and Michelle Young clapping away.
Rachel has been in the audience before and it was nice to see Michelle there too.
But then I noticed another person sitting with them who appeared familiar - it was the horrid KATE! Apparently she is close with Rachel - gee what a surprise.

Kate was only shown for a couple of seconds and I wasn't positive it was her but I found an article confirming her presence and linked it below.

If you scroll down through the article you'll see a photo of the 3 ladies posing with Gabby wearing her Paso Doble costume at DWTS.
There are other pics from the girls' Instagram accounts and it looks like Brittany and Genevieve got together with R, M and K before the show but did not attend.

The article also mentions how Rachel screwed Logan over on Tuesday night's BiP episode. I thought her disparaging Logan was pretty lousy and I'm guessing it was a case of Rachel's jealousy. Since she was rejected by Logan then no one else should get him - especially one of her 'friends'.

Rachel Recchia and Michelle Young glow in dresses for Bachelor Nation girl’s night
https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/reality-tv/rachel-recchia-and-michelle-young-glow-in-dresses-for-bachelor-nation-girls-night/

--------------------------------------------

17 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Johnny seemed really stressed about telling Victoria his brother is in jail. (Ivan: Hold my beer.)
If Victoria really wanted to make him relax about that, she could have shown him her mugshot.

The more I see of Victoria on the show and read about her in the tabloids, the more unattractive she appears to me. That 'mugshot' appears to capture her essence!😱

Edited November 16, 2022 by Melonie77

[phlebas]

4 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

Rachel Recchia and Michelle Young glow in dresses for Bachelor Nation girl’s night
https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/reality-tv/rachel-recchia-and-michelle-young-glow-in-dresses-for-bachelor-nation-girls-night/

I know Rachel is short, but she is noticeably taller than Kate.  Kate must travel in a designer coffee cup.  No wonder Logan looms over her so much.

[jade.black]

Andrew is such a gem, he's been my favorite from the beginning. It was so refreshing to see a guy on this show 1) Truly care about addressing the feelings of others, including his ex-flings 2) Prioritize and discuss his own mental health 3) Notice and walk away from toxic behavior at the first red flag 4) Insist on being respectful in finishing a conversation he felt was important 5) Keep a calm and level head through the whole thing. Also he has generally been funny, fun, mature, and well-liked by everyone. Please Andrew for bachelor! I'd DM him if I were single (or the type to DM D-list reality stars). 

I think Ency, along with seeing her chances of screentime disintegrate, thought that staking a claim on her man would play well on TV. I also think she was very drunk, but that was super out of line behavior and any guy should run if a girl is insisting after one day that he drop friendships with other women/exes immediately. The way she said, "Are you sure about that?" when he said he wanted to maintain a friendship with Jessenia. Yikes. I wasn't even for Jessenia's unnecessary interrogation of Andrew (and I hated that she kept using his name at the end of every sentence like it was a lecture), but her reaction to Ency was correct. I'd have been tempted to toss Ency over that balcony to get away from her clutches.

[Arkay]

Hhm I didn’t know that about Victoria…what’s the reason she was arrested?

I’m sorry to admit that I once begged a man not to leave. BUT that was my husband of four years who left me and our 15-month old daughter, which caused upheaval for the next decades. So, not exactly the same as someone you met a day ago! That was preposterous.

[Melonie77]

Peter Weber Had His Bags Packed for 'Bachelor in Paradise' — Here's Why He Didn't Go to Mexico
Former Bachelor leading man Peter Weber admitted there was one woman he wanted to meet on the summer dating series
https://people.com/tv/peter-weber-nearly-joined-bachelor-in-paradise/

I wonder which girl was the one Peter wanted to meet? I guess they didn't offer pilot pete enough money. Too bad because like him or not, his presence would have made this season of BiP way more interesting. It would have been interesting to see how he interacted w/ Victoria.

I read a while ago that producers told Victoria there was someone cast on BiP that they thought she'd like to meet. I guess they use whatever they can to get people to agree to go on the show. I'm guessing it was Justin since he is the one that Victoria first asked out when she arrived with a date card on day one - later than everyone else. 

[Melonie77]

16 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Teddie left on day 4.  Andrew has spent the last 2 1/2 weeks building it into something it never was.  He needs therapy, not BZiP and not chasing after Teddie who he never really knew.

Yeah, Andrew seems like he has issues with depression. The happiest he's been on BiP was when he's hanging with the guys. I loved when he was learning how to swim

4 hours ago, SassyCat said:

The craziest thing is that I don’t believe Ency was so desperately begging Andrew because she was so head over heels in love with him after  two minutes, but for time on the beach, camera time and a rose to extend her time there. It was like life or death for her. The pleading was for an extention of air time, nothing else. That was painful to watch. Seeing her equate her entire reason for living come down to begging Andrew to keep her rosed up and on that beach for a few more days. 

This! At first I thought Ency was concerned about Andrew's welfare - he seemed so depressed I thought she felt he shouldn't be alone. Then it became clear that she was freaked out over her time on the beach being cut short!

One thing I did agree with Ency on was how odd it was the way Andrew walked away from their ball game. He and Ency were playing that paddle ball game (or whatever it's called).  Jessenia asked to speak with him and he just walked off in the middle of their game without even looking at Ency! I thought that was really rude and sort of spacey.

[tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, Melonie77 said:

Peter Weber Had His Bags Packed for 'Bachelor in Paradise' — Here's Why He Didn't Go to Mexico
Former Bachelor leading man Peter Weber admitted there was one woman he wanted to meet on the summer dating series
https://people.com/tv/peter-weber-nearly-joined-bachelor-in-paradise/

I wonder which girl was the one Peter wanted to meet? I guess they didn't offer pilot pete enough money. Too bad because like him or not, his presence would have made this season of BiP way more interesting. It would have been interesting to see how he interacted w/ Victoria.

I read a while ago that producers told Victoria there was someone cast on BiP that they thought she'd like to meet. I guess they use whatever they can to get people to agree to go on the show. I'm guessing it was Justin since he is the one that Victoria first asked out when she arrived with a date card on day one - later than everyone else. 

Was BiP always like this? It seems to me that initially it was more random, they never knew who they were going to meet. In recent years the producers seem more manipulative. If they know who you want to meet, that person won't enter paradise until you are in a relationship with someone else. Dating cards are given in order to break up couples.  Some couples seem like they were already dating before coming to paradise, and if there was a rivalry on the Bachelor/Bachelorette show, they'll make sure to capitalize on that.  I guess the most blatant for me was when Demi was allowed to bring her already- girlfriend on the show in order to announce being bisexuality and then "fall in love" with a person she was already dating. The show has become a joke, and I am ashamed that I still watch it.

[phlebas]

2 hours ago, Arkay said:

Hhm I didn’t know that about Victoria…what’s the reason she was arrested?

Big ol' DUI in 2017

[Katie111]

I actually enjoyed the dancing in this episode, esp when it was the boys against the girls. It was shocking to actually watch these people having fun.  I wish they had shown more of that and less of the Andrew drama.  

Is it my imagination or in the early seasons of BIP, did people not leave all the time?  I feel like they would just stay until a rose ceremony and then get eliminated.  But people wouldn't leave every time they weren't feeling it with whoever they were with.  They would just stay and see if anyone else came on the beach.  Now every 10 seconds someone else is leaving.  I don't think they should just be allowed to leave whenever they want.  Have some order to the whole thing.  Every 3 days the roses switch between the girls and guys, 4 contestants leave, 4 new ones take their place the next day.  Keep things moving.  

[Sweet-tea]

22 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Bruce the boom operator! What an icon!

Genevieve is threatening to leave again, what a surprise. These people are making my head … itch.

The problem is they both have a very abrupt and angry demeanor whenever there’s any difference of opinion. Each always needs to be right. Neither one of these people is ever going to take the stance of just, yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Itch and pain are not synonymous or interchangeable but I can see how it is pain receptors in the skin tingling in its own way.

Yes. The issue is they don’t know how to communicate and disagree in a healthy way. They are in the honeymoon stage and are already having major issues, so I think their relationship is doomed. 

I know Genevieve is dramatic and high maintenance, but in this instance, I side with her. Aaron overreacted. It seems like he can’t handle it when she disagrees with him about anything. He acts like he’s being attacked. Major problem!

Gosh, what a pathetic display between Andrew and Ency. She was begging him to say. Where was her self-respect?

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, Sweet-tea said:

Yes. The issue is they don’t know how to communicate and disagree in a healthy way. They are in the honeymoon stage and are already having major issues, so I think their relationship is doomed. 

I know Genevieve is dramatic and high maintenance, but in this instance, I side with her. Aaron overreacted. It seems like he can’t handle it when she disagrees with him about anything. He acts like he’s being attacked. Major problem!

Gosh, what a pathetic display between Andrew and Ency. She was begging him to say. Where was her self-respect?

What i find disturbing is ency was gripping Andrew so tightly, if the situation was flipped and a guy was physical with a girl like that, would they intervene? And yes prior seasons there was a much more coming and going . This season is just horrible and i don’t like how Justin came back. And yes, it was rude of Andrew to just drop the game and walk off. And Jessenia castigating Andrew like he was a little boy was ridiculous, i cannot stand her. Yes Andrew learning to swim was adorable . 

[LakeGal]

I am glad Peter wasn't there.  His mother would probably show up to cook breakfast for his dates.  

[thejuicer]

It was nice to see the boys vs. girls dancing at the party. It's the first time they all looked like they were having fun! 

Nothing to add that hasn't been said about Ency. Oh boy that was cringeworthy.

I think Jessenia has done some sketchy things in the past but WOW she looked super hot in her dress.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

7 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I actually enjoyed the dancing in this episode, esp when it was the boys against the girls. It was shocking to actually watch these people having fun.  I wish they had shown more of that and less of the Andrew drama.  

Is it my imagination or in the early seasons of BIP, did people not leave all the time?  I feel like they would just stay until a rose ceremony and then get eliminated.  But people wouldn't leave every time they weren't feeling it with whoever they were with.  They would just stay and see if anyone else came on the beach.  Now every 10 seconds someone else is leaving.  I don't think they should just be allowed to leave whenever they want.  Have some order to the whole thing.  Every 3 days the roses switch between the girls and guys, 4 contestants leave, 4 new ones take their place the next day.  Keep things moving.  

Toobad the producers don't move things along by having a rose ceremony every Tuesday night on BiP. This season has sucked. 

[bravofan27]

Ency is having a REALLY bad night. I've had those nights too. Usually involves way too much alcohol, a guy who I like but doesn't like me, and a blowjob, a guy that still doesn't like me, and then passing out under a sink in a bathroom. Funny, this happened in the 90s too.

This season was boring because everyone got along so well-- the guys loved hanging out together, and the girls were totally into each other too. 

I think Johnny is sweet. Logan is growing on me. Kate talks like a Christian marriage counselor.

[Sweet-tea]

8 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Toobad the producers don't move things along by having a rose ceremony every Tuesday night on BiP. This season has sucked. 

I agree. There were hardly any rose ceremonies and no real structure to the show this season. People were leaving frequently instead of waiting for the rose ceremony. There weren't enough new people arriving on the beach at regular intervals. Taking the women away early in the season was a bad idea. It was a terrible season. 

[phlebas]

48 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I agree. There were hardly any rose ceremonies and no real structure to the show this season. People were leaving frequently instead of waiting for the rose ceremony. There weren't enough new people arriving on the beach at regular intervals. Taking the women away early in the season was a bad idea. It was a terrible season. 

What might help this show is keeping the timeline intact. We end up with "okay, here's 20 minutes on Kate and Logan," then we don't hear anything from them for the rest of the night, then "okay, now we're going to follow Aaron and Genevieve" and then that ends.  Long, time-displaced segments broken up by commercials or quick interstitials of Brandon and Serene making ga-ga eyes at each other.

Just show us what's going on in the order it happens, even if it isn't resolved before you move to the next bit. It's much better storytelling, and you can keep the rose ceremonies on a regular schedule.

For example, this last dust-up with Andrew. I have no clue how long Ency was around. I know Jessinia showed up during the casa amour thing some X days ago, so he dumped Brittany, who he had been dating for an unspecified time -- and all along, he was mooning over Teddi, who left sometime in the past after their torrid romance of indeterminate length.

The Rodney/Eliza/Justin thing is similarly confusing.

I'm just saying it's no wonder we're not invested in these couples.