S01.E10: One Way Out

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

A rare opportunity opens and the time for Cassian and his fellow inmates to act is now.

Dropping Wednesday, November 9, 2022.

[paigow]

Cassian is now Dr. Richard Kimball instead of Jason Bourne... During WW2, Churchill allowed targets in England to be destroyed by German bombers so the Nazis would not discover that England had cracked their codes. Similarly, Luthen is sacrificing Rebels to protect his double agent. 

[Raja]

For such a small prison guard garrison that armory seemed rather well stocked. As the inmates kept pulling more and more blasters out it started to look like a magicians trick. Of course it was only hero plot armor that stopped the Empire from nuking the entire complex.

But when they got to I can't swim, by the scale shown to us I don't think Diana Nyad could have swum out of there. But it had to be close as we see Andor and an ironman triathlon  mate running on shore when aircraft are up around the prison.

[paigow]

Guessing that Cassian is waiting for Empire troops to land so he can steal uniforms and hijack a shuttle....

12 hours ago, Raja said:

Of course it was only hero plot armor that stopped the Empire from nuking the entire complex.

They need to salvage all the Lego Death Star pieces first.... Maybe Kino is going to destroy those parts instead of escaping...

[Tachi Rocinante]

Good, but some convenient plot holes.

• Even though they cut the power I still would have put on the boots.
• I really didn't think they'd have them swim.
• So Lonni is the mole in the Empire.  He needs to learn the value of wearing a hood.
• Luthen's monologue was mostly bullshit.  You're an old man and lived a full life.  Get over yourself.
• Not sure what Cinta is doing other than being a bit obvious.

[Msample]

Boots would make you slower/less agile - try climbing up some of that stuff in boots . And you don’t want to swim in them . 

As for the overstocked armory, one thought I had was that perhaps when the prison first opened they had more guards; over time they reduced the guard headcount thinking they had things under control and with typical bureaucratic inefficiency, didn’t reduce the amount of weaponry since the guns had already been paid for/forgotten. 

[wanderingstar]

That was SO good.

The prison break was incredible, exceeded all my expectations! I was stressed as it all unfolded, from watching the prisoners signal each other to watching Cassian break the pipe to Kino yelling "Attack!" 

Kino! 🥲 He sacrificed himself to get everyone else out of prison. I was so sad when he said "I can't swim."

Davo Sculdun is every bit the asshole thug Mon intimated last episode. His scene with Mon made my skin crawl.

So, Lonni Jung is the mole inside the ISB. I felt bad for him as he was pleading with Luthen to let him go. Luthen's speech was epic, but then Stellan Skarsgård is always good value.

I'm still very worried about Bix.

[angora]

Good god, the *speeches*! Cassian. Kino. Luthen. Just fierce lines all over the place.

The escape/riot was epic. Loved all the different elements of it, and I especially liked how hard they worked to get *everyone* in on it. The 52D guys running to the different rooms, shouting directions to the inmates as they took fire from the guards. Forcing the command center to cut power to every floor on every level. Kino urging the inmates to help anyone who seemed lost or confused. This wasn't a group of exceptional men escaping on the merits of their own brilliant strategy, this was them blowing the doors open so *everyone* could benefit from the work they did and the risks they took. Loved that.

Normally, it annoys me when a protagonist is dropped into a new situation and immediately knows better than people who've been there longer (looking at you, Maze Runner,) but IMO, Cassian is able to do that in a way that *works*. Luthen boxed him into joining the Aldhani mission because he knew it was full of people with more conviction than experience, and Cassian's practical skills as someone who *had* stolen from the Empire would be invaluable. Plus, when Cassian argued with Vel or Taramyn, he was coming at it from the view of his own self-preservation, helping them succeed in large part so they wouldn't get him killed. And now here, his observation/tactics skills and intuitive understanding of how his oppressor thinks are obviously huge--he was right, they'd never have a better chance or fewer guards. But even though he was a driving force in this escape plan and clearly a leader, it didn't feel like him taking over and telling everybody to shut up and listen. Instead, he collaborated, he *inspired*. He worked with other inmates, bounced ideas off of people, and never stopped trying to get more people to join them. When he and Kino reached the command center, he knew that *Kino* had to be the one to speak to the prison and encouraged him to keep going. If he hadn't been knocked into the water toward the end, I'm sure he would've started trying to figure out how they could've helped Kino get out with the rest of them.

Side note: Diego Luna has said repeatedly that he finds it very difficult to act in English, and especially difficult in Star Wars with all its jargon and made-up words. Kudos to him, because everything Cassian says feels completely natural to me.

Davo Sculdun, :shudder:. What a creep. It struck me, both in that scene with Mon Mothma and later with Lonni and Luthen, that most of these characters feel like they're trapped in their own metaphorical prisons, meanwhile the guys in the actual prison are taking control of their lives to grab a chance at freedom.

[paigow]

Davo is like a Game Of Thrones drop in... Proposing political / power marriages.

[absnow54]

2 hours ago, angora said:

Normally, it annoys me when a protagonist is dropped into a new situation and immediately knows better than people who've been there longer (looking at you, Maze Runner,) but IMO, Cassian is able to do that in a way that *works*. Luthen boxed him into joining the Aldhani mission because he knew it was full of people with more conviction than experience, and Cassian's practical skills as someone who *had* stolen from the Empire would be invaluable. Plus, when Cassian argued with Vel or Taramyn, he was coming at it from the view of his own self-preservation, helping them succeed in large part so they wouldn't get him killed. And now here, his observation/tactics skills and intuitive understanding of how his oppressor thinks are obviously huge--he was right, they'd never have a better chance or fewer guards. But even though he was a driving force in this escape plan and clearly a leader, it didn't feel like him taking over and telling everybody to shut up and listen. Instead, he collaborated, he *inspired*. He worked with other inmates, bounced ideas off of people, and never stopped trying to get more people to join them. When he and Kino reached the command center, he knew that *Kino* had to be the one to speak to the prison and encouraged him to keep going. If he hadn't been knocked into the water toward the end, I'm sure he would've started trying to figure out how they could've helped Kino get out with the rest of them.

I agree. I think they give him enough nuance so that he doesn't come off like a Gary Stu in every conflict he encounters. I do kind of wish they maintained the flashbacks that were introduced in the first arc, so we could see young Cassian learning and applying those lessons later on, but with the number of story threads this show has going, I can understand why they dropped that story telling device.

[thuganomics85]

The prison breakout is here!  While it had a few obvious cliches and lucky moments for the group, I still liked how not everything worked out perfectly, there was plenty of confusion and turmoil throughout it all, and many did still die.  There was no way that this was going to be a clean break, but it was believable that every guy there knew that the alternative was worse and it was better to at least try and escape, instead of remain (and likely still die eventually.)  And despite the loss, it was still so satisfying watching the majority of them make it out.  Although they are certainly in for a long swim...

Cassian obvious is the MVP for being the ringleader behind all of this, but Kino more than came through when the time calls for it.  I'm wondering what is in store for him now; or if we'll ever seem him again; since he apparently couldn't swim, but if this is the last time we see Andy Serkis in the Star Wars universe (again!), it was certainly a way to go!  No one can deliver an epic, inspirational speech like he can!

Poor Mon Mothma is understandably all "Wait, when did I get tossed into a Game of Thrones episode, here?!" when she meets this slimy Davo and he's basically saying he'll only help her if she sets up her daughter with his son.  Politics suck in any universe!

A brief glimpse of Cintra spying on Maarva's house.  Sounds like Maarva is refusing to take her meds.  Hmm...

So, that Lonni character is actually the real spy, but he wants out now, but Luthen won't let him.  Hell, he's even basically going to sacrifice Krieger and fifty other rebels just so Lonni's cover can remain intact.  Luthen continues to be such a fascinating character to me: someone who is doing so many questionable to downright awful things and is self-centered in a lot of ways, but also someone who truly believes that everything he does is what is needed to give the rebels a chance.  And while I'm sure a lot of debates can and will be made over it, I suspect that when this is all said and done, his methods will be a sizable reason for why the Rebel Alliance is able to hold its own against the almighty Empire.  Stellan Skarsgard continues to be a powerhouse.

[WritinMan]

Holy crap--that was a fantastic episode! A great prison escape, and fairly realistic. I was wondering how they were going to pull that off and have it seem believable.

I was helping them every step of the way: Break that pipe! Climb up there! Hit that guard!

Serkis and Skarsgård just killed it. I love this show!

Edited November 10, 2022 by WritinMan

[paigow]

Is Kino from Tatooine? Or Jakku? Or Hoth? How else could he not know how to swim?

[Fool to cry]

God this show is amazing.

Luthen's speech

“And what do you sacrifice?”

“Calm. Kindness. Kinship. Love. I’ve given up all chance at inner peace. I’ve made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote fifteen years ago from which there’s only one conclusion, I’m damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight they’ve set me on a path from which there’s no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life to make a sunrise I know I’ll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? Everything!”

[wmdekooning]

9 hours ago, angora said:

When he and Kino reached the command center, he knew that *Kino* had to be the one to speak to the prison and encouraged him to keep going.

Gosh darn if that wasn’t some acting from Mr. Andy Serkis this episode! From the first when he’s just about to lose his stuff and he’s shaking till he erupts that everyone MUST be in on the escape to his final speech from the command center and the camera squarely on him he’s just killin’ it(!).

Then after all that. 
 

Kino can’t swim. Heartbreaking…

10 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

Luthen's speech

“And what do you sacrifice?”

Definitely some great words, and awesome delivery. We’re it not for Andy Serkis as Kino, 
Stellan Skarsgård would be my episode MVP…

[Athena5217]

26 minutes ago, paigow said:

Is Kino from Tatooine? Or Jakku? Or Hoth? How else could he not know how to swim?

There are many people from Earth, a planet of about 70% oceans, that do not know how to swim. The reason is often economic. Swimming lessons cost money and access to pools often costs money. So I can believe Kino grew up not knowing how to swim for the same reasons as in the real world.

What is harder for me to believe is all those prisoners knew which way to swim toward land and there was land close enough for them to swim to. If the Empire was going to the effort to build a prison in water, you’d think they would also go to the effort to put it REALLY FAR from land. But this is the same Empire that built a Death Star that could be blown up by an X-wing and employs Stormtroopers that can’t hit anything so maybe not.

[wmdekooning]

13 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

If the Empire was going to the effort to build a prison in water, you’d think they would also go to the effort to put it REALLY FAR from land.

And you are correct re: how the Death Star was designed by the Empire with such an enormous flaw.

In a number of ways Cassian Andor points out the overconfidence of the guards to the point that they just don’t bother to listen in on prisoner conversations or even staff the prison in the necessary levels. I think Lutheran is shining the light on this. That when the Empire eventually puts the screws to the populace it’s going to backfire on them.

The Empire is not prepared to run the Galaxy long ago and far away. See: Death Star II…

[Sarah 103]

It says a great deal that Mon Mothma is willing to draw the line at sacrificing her daughter. Forcing her daughter into a marriage is not something she is willing to do for the sake of the rebellion. 

The prison break was epic, awesome, and everything I hoped it would be. I wonder how many actually made it into the water and how many survived. When Kino said he couldn't swim, was I the only one who thought "The fall's gonna kill you."   

This really feels even more like the Cassian Andor we saw in Rogue One. 

[MJ Frog]

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

It says a great deal that Mon Mothma is willing to draw the line at sacrificing her daughter. Forcing her daughter into a marriage is not something she is willing to do for the sake of the rebellion. 

I have a terrible feeling that Mon was crying because she knew that she might well end up doing exactly that.

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

When Kino said he couldn't swim, was I the only one who thought "The fall's gonna kill you."   

If you were thinking of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, then you weren't alone!

[Cherpumple]

5 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

It says a great deal that Mon Mothma is willing to draw the line at sacrificing her daughter. Forcing her daughter into a marriage is not something she is willing to do for the sake of the rebellion. 

I agree, but I've had a bad feeling about her daughter for a while. She was acting cartoonishly shifty during that cocktail party (last episode?) and there's definitely something up with her. I figured that she would get killed or arrested, but maybe they'll go the arranged marriage route. Either way, I don't have high hopes for her survival.

I loved the prison break, especially seeing that the guard making all the announcements was the least intimidating guy ever. I love how this show fleshes things out by showing that the Empire is both more frightening and more human than we've seen before. And I guess it's the same thing with the Rebels- I like seeing "the good guys" do all sorts of questionable things in the name of their cause, and I hope we learn more about Luthen and his original motivations.

[Spaceman Spiff]

9 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

But this is the same Empire that built a Death Star that could be blown up by an X-wing

9 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

And you are correct re: how the Death Star was designed by the Empire with such an enormous flaw.

The Death Star wasn't designed with a flaw. Galen Erso added the flaw when he was forced to work on it in Rogue One.

[Raja]

3 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

.

I loved the prison break, especially seeing that the guard making all the announcements was the least intimidating guy ever. I love how this show fleshes things out by showing that the Empire is both more frightening and more human than we've seen before. And I guess it's the same thing with the Rebels- I like seeing "the good guys" do all sorts of questionable things in the name of their cause, and I hope we learn more about Luthen and his original motivations.

It comes from Cassion's first moments in the prison a couple of episodes but I think it was one of the mistakes made on the show when we see the warden's sadistic almost orgasmic look when the shock floor was demonstrated to the new inmates instead of just another stormtrooper doing a job.

[paigow]

The builders of Alcatraz knew that numerous sharks surrounding the island were another deterrent for escape. If the marine life on Narkina 5 is anything like Naboo, most inmates never made landfall...

[wmdekooning]

4 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

The Death Star wasn't designed with a flaw. Galen Erso added the flaw when he was forced to work on it in Rogue One.

I can see it now.

Head Death Star Engineer: <Typical Empire British accent> Erm... Galen... I see there's a flaw on these plans here. It appears there's an exhaust port that's just large enough, an X-wing fighter could possible fire a missile down it blowing the whole thing up.

Galen: Well, that's just some defeatist thinking. Who would even know? I'll report in to Lord Vader and...

Head Death Star Engineer:  No, no, no. You're absolutely right. How about we just keep this between the two of us, yes???

Someone writing the script for Ep. 10 must have referenced the classic Eddie Izzard "Star Wars" bit during the scene with the staffers in the security nerve center.

"You're not supposed to be here..."

Edited November 10, 2022 by wmdekooning

[Ilovepie]

SO.GOOD.

Every week, I cannot sleep after I watch this because I'm too hyped/disturbed. So many epic lines this episode! Luthen's speech is heartbreaking. Lonni's isolation and impossible position is heartbreaking. Mon Mothma's choice is heartbreaking. "I can't swim". Heartbreaking.

"I'd rather die trying to take them down than die giving them what they want". Was there ever any sentence more prophetic? Is this the moment where Cassian Andor completely becomes the guy who is willing to sacrifice everything in Rogue One? Was Cassian and that one guy the only two who survived that swim?

Another episode of Cassian Andor "climbing". Love the callback again.

ONE WAY OUT! ONE WAY OUT!

[wanderingstar]

Two more observations about this episode.

Hearing that Maarva is hiding her medication - that detail is so true to life. I know some elderly people who have done exactly this thing.

The writing for Dedra puts me in mind of the way the writers of The Expanse novels wrote their villains, giving them interior lives and characterization beyond being foils for the heroes. In this interview with Tony Gilroy, he says something similar.

Quote

But I’m stunned by how much I enjoy watching ISB Supervisor Dedra Meero (Denise Gough). So why did you want to put the audience in the shoes of a fascist?

Well, I want to be in everybody’s shoes. The whole gig is empathy. I mean, that’s what the gig is. If you’re going to do it well, you’ve got to be with everybody. I can’t imagine writing a character where I couldn’t get behind their point of view for the moment I was with them. When we wrote her and built her out, we had the exact same experience that the audience is having. We were like, “Oh my God, she’s this woman who’s trapped in this thing, and there’s only one other woman who works there. She’s also working harder than everybody else, and she’s getting no credit. She’s a freaking underdog. We’re rooting for her. How do we make her strong?” And then we got to Ferrix, and we’re like, “Oh my God, look at her. What is she doing?” There has to be another term for walking in someone’s shoes. You don’t have to endorse somebody’s thinking, philosophy, sadism or whatever, but you’ve got to get in there and be with them if you really want to have a strong character.

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:19 AM, paigow said:

Similarly, Luthen is sacrificing Rebels to protect his double agent. 

I wonder if he's also taking advantage of an opportunity to get rid of a potential problem. The Rebel being set up was one Saw mentioned as disliking. If he can get rid of an impediment to getting Saw to join in with the rest of the rebellion while protecting his asset, win-win!

On 11/9/2022 at 11:16 AM, angora said:

And now here, his observation/tactics skills and intuitive understanding of how his oppressor thinks are obviously huge--he was right, they'd never have a better chance or fewer guards. But even though he was a driving force in this escape plan and clearly a leader, it didn't feel like him taking over and telling everybody to shut up and listen. Instead, he collaborated, he *inspired*. He worked with other inmates, bounced ideas off of people, and never stopped trying to get more people to join them. When he and Kino reached the command center, he knew that *Kino* had to be the one to speak to the prison and encouraged him to keep going. If he hadn't been knocked into the water toward the end, I'm sure he would've started trying to figure out how they could've helped Kino get out with the rest of them.

Cassian is basically the perfect King's Hand kind of guy, the kind who can assess the situation, come up with plans and policies, write the king's speech to announce his plans, then lead and motivate the people who'll carry them out. He doesn't seem to care at all about who gets credit. He just wants things done. It sounds like he and the others had all worked out the plans already. He didn't get Kino on board until that morning, but then he stepped back and put Kino in the spotlight. I got chills when Kino repeated Cassian's words on the speaker.

Cassian telling those guards in the command center to get on program was a major "hell yeah!" moment, as well. The whole escape left me with tears of joy. Seeing all the prisoners realizing they were free and swarming out of the factory rooms. Climb! (seems to be a theme)

On 11/9/2022 at 11:16 AM, angora said:

Diego Luna has said repeatedly that he finds it very difficult to act in English, and especially difficult in Star Wars with all its jargon and made-up words. Kudos to him, because everything Cassian says feels completely natural to me.

Every time I'm impressed with what he's doing, I remember that he's doing all this in a foreign language. I've had to act in Spanish, in skits in Spanish class, and it's really, really hard to do a decent performance when you have to think so hard about what you're saying. So he's even more impressive. I suppose Stellan Skarsgård is in the same boat, acting in a foreign language. At any other time, his speech would have been Emmy-worthy, but I'm afraid in a just world Andy Serkis would have the supporting actor Emmy sewn up. I hope Disney+ realizes they've got "prestige TV" here and acts accordingly when it comes to awards campaigns.

The "I can't swim" thing is a plot point that's always puzzled me because it seems like a lot of swimming is instinctive. No, you're not going to be able to Michael Phelps it, but floating is easy. But my parents put me in tiny tot swimming lessons before I can remember, so maybe I'm mistaking "learning at an age before I remember clearly" for "instinct." Still, I'm not a very good swimmer and I don't much like swimming (I like being in water, don't really like the act of actually swimming). I'd have probably ended up backstroking my way to shore, or at least just floated on my back and kicked.

12 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

I loved the prison break, especially seeing that the guard making all the announcements was the least intimidating guy ever.

Yes! Hearing that intimidating voice on the speakers, and then we see him at the microphone, and he's this young, dweeby guy. It says a lot about that prison and maybe even about the Empire.

This show is dangerously close to bringing me back to the level of Star Wars mania I had when I was a kid and saw the original movie during the initial run, only then there was no other Star Wars stuff and you could only see the movie by going to the theater, if it was playing. Now, there's so much to see, and I can see it all whenever I want, so this could be dangerous.

[Captain Carrot]

I saw some clips of Kino in segments talking about Serkis' role and a lot of his dialogue is more heroic once you realize that he knew he wasn't getting out.

Regarding Mon Mothma's daughter I have to wonder if her husband has been planning on a marriage of their daughter to Davo's son for a while now. We know that he's been going out of his way to get the daughter to prefer him and trust him over Mon Mothma and that he is friendly with Davo (at least we know that fact per Davo). Could they have been working on this for a while and Davo is taking this opportunity to make the marriage more likely? (Or is Perrin just a jerk that is using his daughter to annoy his wife)?

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

"I'd rather die trying to take them down than die giving them what they want". Was there ever any sentence more prophetic? Is this the moment where Cassian Andor completely becomes the guy who is willing to sacrifice everything in Rogue One?

Yes! I think this may be why I had such a strong reaction fo Cassian's character development in this episode and why I felt it was such a major turning point for Cassian. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Climb! (seems to be a theme)

Should change his adopted name to Baelish - Chaos is a ladder...

[bunnyblue]

"I burn my life for a sunrise I know I'll never see." And he's also willing to burn the lives of 50 rebels in order to keep his mole in the ISB. I don't consider Luthen a villain but he's certainly the darkest character we've ever seen on the "good side" in Star Wars. I'm curious what started him on this path; this show is so good that I hope they don't go with the cliché that the Empire killed his wife and that's what turned him into a rebel. 

I hope more prisoners made it to the shore, not just Cassian and Melshi. I assume Kino is toast - either he drowns or is recapture and executed as one of the ringleaders of the prison break. Since I can't find any spoilers for this show and I'm watching it completely unspoiled, I thought the prisoners were climbing to get to the hanger in order to commandeer a space ship to get off the planet. I was surprised the "one way out" was to swim to shore. That was absolutely brutal for Kino and anyone else who can't swim. 

This is my 2nd favorite SW series and I'm bummed there are only 2 episodes left. I'm biting my nails worrying about which characters will not survive to see season 2. Karn can die, though.

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

The "I can't swim" thing is a plot point that's always puzzled me because it seems like a lot of swimming is instinctive.

I think you may be underestimating just how fearful it might be for people who don't know how to swim. I grew up around a swimming pool and had lessons at an early age and feel perfectly comfortable in the water, but I've known others who are terrified by even shallow pools and refuse to even enter them.

[tkc]

7 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

This show is dangerously close to bringing me back to the level of Star Wars mania I had when I was a kid and saw the original movie during the initial run, only then there was no other Star Wars stuff and you could only see the movie by going to the theater, if it was playing. Now, there's so much to see, and I can see it all whenever I want, so this could be dangerous.

I know, right? The writing and acting:

On 11/9/2022 at 6:23 PM, Fool to cry said:

“Calm. Kindness. Kinship. Love. I’ve given up all chance at inner peace. I’ve made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote fifteen years ago from which there’s only one conclusion, I’m damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight they’ve set me on a path from which there’s no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life to make a sunrise I know I’ll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? Everything!”

It's almost on the same level as:

Just needs George Lucas to polish the script a bit.  😄

Edited November 11, 2022 by tkc

[Fool to cry]

The reason Star Wars and Star Trek have endured is the real genius of Lucas and Roddenberry was creating great settings for writers far better than them.

What I like the most about the show and Rogue One is it makes the members of the Rebellion more than these anonymous background extras who were just waiting for Luke and Han to show up and be the big heroes. They were heroes in their own right. Also that the Empire were horrifying even before they blew up planets and made up of monsters who don't have Force powers.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Fool to cry

[Spartan Girl]

All the awards for Andy Serkis. That’s the post.

[tennisgurl]

That was so good, the prison break was so damn intense. It felt so chaotic and realistic in how disorganized it was even after Cassian and his cellmates had planned things out, some people didn't make it, tons of people were getting shot, and in the end everyone just made a rather frantic swim for it. And yet it still felt so triumphant and awesome, you can really see Cassian becoming the Cassian we meet in Rogue One. This show is so good, I have really enjoyed a lot of the Disney+ Star Wars content but this show especially feels special, it really gets my blood pumping and gives me chills. Every time I watch I feel the need to watch something else set in the Star Wars universe. 

What a great showcase for Andy Serkis, that big speech he gave over the intercom was amazing. I really want to watch the episode again knowing that Kino knows he isn't getting out, he knew all along that he was wasn't going to survive this but he kept going because it meant that the other prisoners might have a chance. That "I cant swim" hit right in the heart, I really hope that somehow Kino made it anyway, but its not looking good for him. Again, we get some chilling foreshadowing of Cassian's fate dying fighting against the Empire as he gets closer to being a person who would be willing to do that.  

Kino's inspiring speech rousing the prisoners to fight for their freedom was such an interesting contrast with Luthen's speech to his mole about how much of himself he has given up to fight the Empire. Honestly some of the best writing the show has had so far (and that is saying something) and so chilling. Luthen knows that he has done horrible things and will keep on doing them, costing himself his soul, any chance he might have at happiness, his sense of decency, all in the name of the rebellion, and while he hates doing it, its what he thinks needs to be done to defeat the Empire. Even if he has to use the Empire's own methods against them. I don't think its a coincidence that he looked so much like a Sith standing out there on the platform with his black cape blowing around threateningly. Luthen is probably one of the darkest of the good guys we have ever seen attached to the rebellion, he's such a fascinating character. 

I love that the guy who has been making all of those threatening all power announcements this whole time is just some nerdy pencil pusher, it felt very "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." I really love that this show has shown how much of the Empire is just made up of normal people doing a job, which makes them all the scarier. They might be lead by obvious supervillains like Palpatine and Vader, but there are far more average working stiffs and beaurocrats than supervillains, and they're the people that are clocking in and out every day while torturing innocent people, oppressing the masses, and carrying out genocide. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Sarah 103]

12 hours ago, tkc said:

It's almost on the same level as:

I get the joke and it's funny, but this is an important character moment for Luke. It shows that he is a whiny teenager and sets up the evolution of the character. He goes from a whiny teenager who's a bit selfish to a hero who saves the day. 

[Raja]

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That was so good, the prison break was so damn intense. It felt so chaotic and realistic in how disorganized it was even after Cassian and his cellmates had planned things out, some people didn't make it, tons of people were getting shot, and in the end everyone just made a rather frantic swim for it. And yet it still felt so triumphant and awesome, you can really see Cassian becoming the Cassian we meet in Rogue One. This show is so good, I have really enjoyed a lot of the Disney+ Star Wars content but this show especially feels special, it really gets my blood pumping and gives me chills. Every time I watch I feel the need to watch something else set in the Star Wars universe. 

What a great showcase for Andy Serkis, that big speech he gave over the intercom was amazing. I really want to watch the episode again knowing that Kino knows he isn't getting out, he knew all along that he was wasn't going to survive this but he kept going because it meant that the other prisoners might have a chance. That "I cant swim" hit right in the heart, I really hope that somehow Kino made it anyway, but its not looking good for him. Again, we get some chilling foreshadowing of Cassian's fate dying fighting against the Empire as he gets closer to being a person who would be willing to do that.  

Like Top Gun: Maverick was inspired by Star Wars, which itself was inspired by The Dam Busters and 633 Squadron I wonder how much of Escape from Sobibor  applied

[Captain Carrot]

13 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I think you may be underestimating just how fearful it might be for people who don't know how to swim. I grew up around a swimming pool and had lessons at an early age and feel perfectly comfortable in the water, but I've known others who are terrified by even shallow pools and refuse to even enter them.

Agreed, Kino probably would have been OK if it had been in a pool for a short distance with Andor to coach him. But in an Ocean with several thousand people all around him and a distance that looked to be at least a mile? Swimming isn't as instinctive as some people believe, and Kino would almost certainly have drowned. (I'm hoping that he found a flotation device after most of the others got out and managed to escape, but that would be unlikely.

Also, I've been thinking about the number of blasters, and it actually makes sense based on how the prison was set up. It looked like they had blasters by the door to each room instead of having the guards carry them around. Considering how much this prison used patterns (7 floors, 7 rooms per floor, 100 prisoners per room, 12 guards per floor, etc) then I'm guessing they had 12  blasters by each entrance, and that would be 84 blasters per floor. Makes sense if you think the prisoners will never get out of the rooms, but a disaster (for the guards) once that happened.

[MJ Frog]

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I don't think its a coincidence that he looked so much like a Sith standing out there on the platform with his black cape blowing around threateningly.

Oh indeed it wasn't a coincidence. Nor was the framing, with him in the distance, face not quite visible. The set even reminded me of parts of Cloud City, where Luke confronts Vader in the movie that is easily the darkest of the original trilogy. Some might consider this scene a little heavy-handed. I am not one of them.

[dwmarch]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

That "I cant swim" hit right in the heart, I really hope that somehow Kino made it anyway

I hope so too. "I can't swim" doesn't mean he's dead the second he hits the water and if you want to learn to swim real quick this seems like an ideal scenario. I couldn't swim either until one day I could. I was in a pool and I must have made the right motions and all of a sudden I was swimming. I haven't been swimming for many years now but I am sure I could still do it. My father couldn't swim either. He worked on the water on a small, unstable boat called a Sidewinder. He fell off it more than once. While he couldn't swim he could certainly exit the water when he needed to. Not so much an option for Kino here but as mentioned upthread there were other dudes who could have helped him.

I loved Luthen paying a visit to his ISB spy. I have seen references to that kind of thing in Tom Clancy and other spy novels. Sometimes you need to send someone high level to have a meeting with a spy to stroke their ego and/or (see what I did there?) remind them of their obligations.

[chitowngirl]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

That "I cant swim" hit right in the heart, I really hope that somehow Kino made it anyway

It looked like Andor was going to help him and then they got separated when more prisoners surged in 😢

[Captain Stable]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:19 PM, wmdekooning said:

In a number of ways Cassian Andor points out the overconfidence of the guards to the point that they just don’t bother to listen in on prisoner conversations or even staff the prison in the necessary levels. I think Lutheran is shining the light on this. That when the Empire eventually puts the screws to the populace it’s going to backfire on them.

"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"

On 11/10/2022 at 11:27 PM, tkc said:

I know, right? The writing and acting:

It's almost on the same level as:

Just needs George Lucas to polish the script a bit.  😄

It's when you discover that "Toshe Station" is a strip club, and "Power Converters" is what they call the girls who work there.... :P 

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:04 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I get the joke and it's funny, but this is an important character moment for Luke. It shows that he is a whiny teenager and sets up the evolution of the character. He goes from a whiny teenager who's a bit selfish to a hero who saves the day. 

There's also a big difference between the characters. Luke was never particularly eloquent. It would have been bad writing to have him make a Luthen-like speech. His equivalent of trying to be persuasive/manipulative was the "She's rich" bit to get Han to help him rescue Leia. Luthen was largely playing a role. No one talks spontaneously like that. I'm a professional writer and have written speeches for corporate executives, and I wouldn't be able to just spontaneously come out with something like that. It's clearly something he's been pondering for some time, possibly even mentally scripted. I'm not even entirely sure how authentic it all was. Was it just another role for him to play, like we saw him putting on the character of the antique shop owner?

And the two scenes being compared here aren't a good comparison. A better comparison might be Leia's speech about the more you tighten your grip, the more slips through your fingers.

[andromeda331]

That prison break was even better then I though it would be. It was great! 

[raven]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That prison break was even better then I though it would be. It was great! 

Yep and the overhead scene of everyone swimming away from the prison was memorable.

This was the first episode where I was impatient to get back to Cassian's story.   There was other good and interesting stuff going on but I was all "get back to the PRISON dammit".   

Until we get confirmation, Kino is alive and escaped somehow.  So there.  Andy Serkis has been so good in this role; I read an interview where they tried different ways of saying the "I can't swim" line.  He got it just right.  I absolutely think Cassian would have helped him if wasn't pushed over via the flow of escapees.

I wonder if MM will bring the choice to her daughter and explain about the rebellion.  She's been keeping the daughter out of it and I've been assuming it's to protect the daughter but does she not trust the daughter?  Arranged marriages are obviously done in her culture, does the daughter expect to be married off or has MM raised her differently; maybe something was said that I don't remember.  Sleazy money guy was only talking a meeting but we all know what he expects.  

Now I have an answer to "why does that guy seem one step ahead of Dedra, who's supposed to be the smartest person in the room".    Oh, Luthen.  Great, great character but he is a zealot in his own way.   I am interested as to how he got there.  We are following Cassian's journey; we know that Mon Mothma is a principled person (who may or may not marry her daughter off) but what's Luthen's deal?  Inquiring minds want to know.  Maybe he just hates the Empire.

On 11/11/2022 at 12:27 AM, tkc said:

I burn my life to make a sunrise I know I’ll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? Everything!”

Luthen's speech reminds me of a discussion in one of The Expanse books, where Naomi tells her captain and partner, Holden, when he is all "why am I doing this thing".  She says along the lines of "you don't get to know that.  You do the good thing because it's the right thing to do and you don't get to know the rest".   I'm paraphrasing but the point is that Luthen has accepted that he doesn't get to know but is he going too far?  The double agent seemed about to crack under the pressure.  I guess we'll see.

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, raven said:

Until we get confirmation, Kino is alive and escaped somehow. 

I'm holding out hope that he figured a way out and survived. I want him back in S2. Andy Serkis is a gem of an actor, whether he's a CGI ir live action character. I loved him in the Marvel movies and he was brilliant as Gollum

[Raja]

2 hours ago, raven said:

This was the first episode where I was impatient to get back to Cassian's story.   There was other good and interesting stuff going on but I was all "get back to the PRISON dammit".   

Until we get confirmation, Kino is alive and escaped somehow.  So there.  Andy Serkis has been so good in this role; I read an interview where they tried different ways of saying the "I can't swim" line.  He got it just right.  I absolutely think Cassian would have helped him if wasn't pushed over via the flow of escapees.

For me the story works better with him knowing and still making the sacrifice, just as those in the Rogue One raid.. As he told the people he lead I  already consider myself dead before the revolt began. The only thing more he could have done is serve as a rear guard. But then the escapees were trampling each other in the rush to get out so they couldn't really post him up somewhere to get in a firefight with an active and not cowering guard.

One thing this miniseries has done in a franchise ranking is move Rogue One up from top 3 of all Star Wars to the first one that I am interested in rewatching after all those years of watching Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back while mostly ignoring the rest.

[Shanna Marie]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

One thing this miniseries has done in a franchise ranking is move Rogue One up from top 3 of all Star Wars to the first one that I am interested in rewatching after all those years of watching Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back while mostly ignoring the rest.

I rewatched Rogue One last night, and it really hits differently now. I was even more teary-eyed at the end, now that I know Cassian better and know what he's been through. The "Climb!" is a real gut-punch, and although I know they didn't know about the Aldahni raid or the prison escape when they wrote this movie, it's easy to look at Cassian and imagine that's what's echoing in his head, since it seems someone is lost every time he hears that. His speech to Jyn explaining why he wants to go against orders and do the Scarif raid is an interesting echo of Luthen's speech in this episode, since it's about what he's sacrificed and why, and why he can't give up. I honestly didn't remember Melshi from the movie before the series, and now it's a lot more meaningful when he's the one Cassian trusts to "light it up."

It's interesting how Mon Mothma somehow actually does look five years younger in the series. I had to double check that it was the same actress, but I think the lighter and longer hair gives her a softer look. The main difference for Diego Luna is that he's leaner in the face now, which ages him a bit, but I can fanwank that Cassian's going through so much in the series and maybe things get easier for him once he commits to the rebellion and finds a place (and isn't being worked to death in a prison with harsh lighting).

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:03 AM, wmdekooning said:

Head Death Star Engineer: <Typical Empire British accent> Erm... Galen... I see there's a flaw on these plans here. It appears there's an exhaust port that's just large enough, an X-wing fighter could possible fire a missile down it blowing the whole thing up.

Galen: Well, that's just some defeatist thinking. Who would even know? I'll report in to Lord Vader and...

Head Death Star Engineer:  No, no, no. You're absolutely right. How about we just keep this between the two of us, yes???

Galen was the head engineer of the section of the Death Star he was forced to work on. It was only when the cargo pilot escaped with a coded message that Darth Vader threatened Orson Krennec, who in turn found out it was Galen who was the mole and then went to have all his work checked out. I know you are making light in your faux scenario, but I don't know if you've seen Rogue One.