S05.E08: Gunpowder

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

The Queen spends quality time with Prince William. On Guy Fawkes Night, fireworks make for a perfect distraction from Diana's BBC interview.

Dropping on Wednesday, November 9, 2022.

[Roseanna]

Elizabeth seem to have a better relationship with William than ever Charles, but it's always easier to be a granny than a mom.

Diana didn't either realize or care how harmful it was to her sons that their parents made their marriage difficulties public.  

William was taught in the school about "high treason" - it was clearly hinted that Diana was guilty of that, "attempting to undermine the lawfully established line of succession".

[Helena Dax]

Poor William, can't imagine how uncomfortable he was about the whole situation.

I wonder if Diana really realized that the BRF weren't working against her. Charles's behaviour was insensitive, but I doubt the others despised her as much as she believed. I know she was friends with Sarah Ferguson, but what about Andrew and Edward? She was closer in age to them.  Also, the show is portraying her as totally isolated, but didn't she have lots of friends like Elton John and Versace?

Loved Elizabeth, William and the QM dealing with the new TV. The QM seems to be a huge soap opera fan!!

[Spartan Girl]

3 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

I wonder if Diana really realized that the BRF weren't working against her. Charles's behaviour was insensitive, but I doubt the others despised her as much as she believed. I know she was friends with Sarah Ferguson, but what about Andrew and Edward? She was closer in age to them.  Also, the show is portraying her as totally isolated, but didn't she have lots of friends like Elton John and Versace?

You can have a bunch of friends and still feel so isolated and ashamed of your problems that it's hard to open up to people.

[Helena Dax]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

You can have a bunch of friends and still feel so isolated and ashamed of your problems that it's hard to open up to people.

Yes, but according to the show, she was telling everyone, including John Major.

[lorbeer]

3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Yes, but according to the show, she was telling everyone, including John Major.

Exactly what I wanted to say!

[Conotocarious]

That is not the same kind of opening up as a true caring friendship. Dropping comments and hints to an audience that will be surprised and uncomfortable is just not the same thing.

[Adgirl]

12 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

but I doubt the others despised her as much as she believed.

Go back to last season and watch Anne, Margaret and Camilla moan about being compared to Diana. Anne and Margaret are particularly jealous and angry at the attention she gets. 

Watching this show has made me wonder why Margaret didn't take Diana under her wing. She could've been the mother figure Diana craved and schooled her on how to make the type of marriage Charles and Camilla planned for her work.

[Ellaria]

I know that I should not be shocked by the actions and decisions of the BBC - especially those of Martin Bashir - but I continually am. The fact that no one bothered to stop the airing (or the filming) of this interview is shameful. It is easy to criticize Diana’s decision to participate. I don’t know what she expected as result. Maybe she simply wanted her voice to be heard. However, the deception and manipulation used to convince this vulnerable woman to cooperate is beyond awful.

The show is hitting us over the head with the idea of obsolescence - the Britannia, the Queen’s TV, the BBC…and, yes, of course the Queen herself.

Loved the scene of the Queen, QM and William with the new TV programming and the satellite dish.

[Spartan Girl]

4 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

It is easy to criticize Diana’s decision to participate. I don’t know what she expected as result. Maybe she simply wanted her voice to be heard. However, the deception and manipulation used to convince this vulnerable woman to cooperate is beyond awful.

My feelings exactly. Yes, in hindsight it was a dumb thing to do, but Charles can miss me with his hypocritical outrage after he was the first to air out his slanted version of the truth. Would have been better for her to keep her mouth shut and let him and his PR team steamroll over her?

[Ellaria]

12 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Would have been better for her to keep her mouth shut and let him and his PR team steamroll over her?

Hindsight makes this an interesting discussion. If I was in her situation, I would haven chosen a “tell all” interview, too, and given little thought to the consequences. It’s hard to imagine the frustration that she must have experienced. However, I wish that she had confided in someone who could have advised her appropriately. 

[Dejana]

You have to wonder what interview Diana would’ve given if Martin Bashir hadn't manipulated her. Charles had already gone on the record with his side, and other TV networks were wooing her. The tapes for Diana, Her True Story covered much of the same terrain, showed the same lack of consideration to her sons, and that predated Bashir. He was wildly unethical, but I can picture Diana giving the same sort of emotional, relevatory interview to Oprah or Barbara Walters as well, which surely would’ve aired in the UK eventually.

[Marley]

Charles is a douche but this episode made me not like Diana a bit. I was born in 1987 so a kid when all of this was happening but I remember some and back then I was all team Diana but now I don’t buy into her being this innocent victim. I always felt the media was always on her side back then so not sure why she felt the need for this interview. I feel bad for Prince William. He was obviously too involved with his mothers life. Again I don’t know if any of this is true but I read some things online about Diana and her kids.

Maybe I’m completely wrong but I don’t understand why she couldn’t have just lived her life after the separation. She seemed to crave attention and being portrayed as this huge victim. Again I do think she was fucked over in a lot of ways but I just can’t with her total victim no hope thing.

[peridot]

It was awful that Diana was talking about her dating life to her son.  He was so anxious about trying to set a boundary for himself.

The back and forth between the BBC heads was interesting.  The guy with a cane seemed like a jerk, publicly humiliating the younger guy.  It must have been tiring for the younger guy to constantly hear the Royal worship, so I laughed when he told his team to go ahead after hearing about the proposed program about the Queen.  Bashir sidestepped how he secured the interview, and I wonder if the guy with the glasses would have moved forward if he knew the entire truth.

I really hate that Bashir kept gaslighting Diana once she tried to confront him.  It was really low to try and turn her against her brother.

I enjoyed the scenes with William, the Queen, and the Queen Mother.  It's interesting to see how long-lived that family is.  I never met my great-grandmother, so it was cool to see those different generations together.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 11/11/2022 at 10:17 PM, peridot said:

I really hate that Bashir kept gaslighting Diana once she tried to confront him.  It was really low to try and turn her against her brother

This absolutely infuriated me. He just proved that he was a con man. And that Diana was so naive she believed him.

And then his assumption that she was attracted to Pakistanis to use an Urdu proverb? Jeebus his pronunciation of the phrase was horrific. And further proof he didn’t speak the language by the way he massacred it.

Edited November 13, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, peridot said:

It was awful that Diana was talking about her dating life to her son.  He was so anxious about trying to set a boundary for himself.

She treated his 13-year son partly like he was still a little boy (who wants his mom behave like that in public?), partly as his confidante. 

Elizabeth was quite right by saying that it's not the child's job to be worried about his parents.

[Joana]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:23 AM, Adgirl said:

Watching this show has made me wonder why Margaret didn't take Diana under her wing. She could've been the mother figure Diana craved and schooled her on how to make the type of marriage Charles and Camilla planned for her work.

You know, in this show's universe, the way the characters are presented, it would have made absolute sense for them to be friends (I mean, even the Queen thinks they're close!), but since it decidedly did not happen IRL (apparently Margaret really disliked her for some reason), I guess it would have been a step too far to portray them as close. 

This season is so incredibly frustrating. Everyone is acknowledging that Diana is neglected and isolated, nobody will give her their time of the day, Queen doesn't even try to dispute that, but hey, when she requests an audience with Elizabeth before The Interview, she is granted one the same evening! And the Queen is actually SO sympathetic that even Diana is left stunned! I mean, if that was so easy, it makes you wonder why everything hadn't been resolved years earlier. 

And I absolutely detest the revisionist history in this season. I don't feel particularly strongly about Diana one way or another and I know with the passage of time the public opinion of her has changed considerably, but at that time, she wasn't just popular, she was absolutely ADORED. We see absolutely nothing of that here. It feels like we're watching the events of the 90s through today's lens and it doesn't feel right. Like, when Princess Margaret wasn't allowed to marry the man she loved, it wasn't portrayed like a huge injustice it would be considered today. The portrayal was faithful to the spirit of the times - yes, it was sad, but at the same time inevitable. Such perspective is sorely lacking this season.

[BloomsburyRez]

3 hours ago, Joana said:

I know with the passage of time the public opinion of her has changed considerably, but at that time, she wasn't just popular, she was absolutely ADORED. We see absolutely nothing of that here. It feels like we're watching the events of the 90s through today's lens and it doesn't feel right.

I completely agree as someone else who remembers this time period. She was 100% the most famous woman on the planet and even people who didn’t follow the BRF knew who she was. And the thought at the time was why was her husband such an asshole cheating on her with that ugly woman.

[Artsda]

Bashir was a horrible person, no journalistic integrity at all. They are getting it right. 

Diana still doing this interview and not thinking of the kids at all really is what always bothered me.  I felt for  William in this one, stuck trying for boundaries.

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, BloomsburyRez said:

And the thought at the time was why was her husband such an asshole cheating on her with that ugly woman.

Camilla wasn't a beauty as young, but not bad-looking either. She was donwn-to-earth and sexy and she had a sense of humor. 

Even this series shows that she could give support and admiration Charles needed and make him happy. Actually in the famous tampon call, the beginning (if it's real) where they talked about Charles's speech was really important: that, not the sex part, showed their closeness - they were life partners.   

[BloomsburyRez]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

Camilla wasn't a beauty as young, but not bad-looking either. She was donwn-to-earth and sexy and she had a sense of humor. 

Not debating that point but I do remember headlines from that time frame as well as late night comic jokes. People were baffled that he chose her over his wife. That era was not kind to women’s appearances (not that it’s improved that much). 

[greekmom]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:14 PM, Helena Dax said:

Poor William, can't imagine how uncomfortable he was about the whole situation.

Loved Elizabeth, William and the QM dealing with the new TV. The QM seems to be a huge soap opera fan!!

William had both parents airing out the dirty laundry. Not just Diana.

Fun fact: the Queen or was it the Queen Mum were fond of the Golden Girls.

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And then his assumption that she was attracted to Pakistanis to use an Urdu proverb? Jeebus his pronunciation of the phrase was horrific. And further proof he didn’t speak the language by the way he massacred it.

I felt the same way back in whichever season they had the actress play Philip's mother Princess Alice and she freaking butchered up the Greek language. Horrific was an understatement. 

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

Diana still doing this interview and not thinking of the kids at all really is what always bothered me.  I felt for  William in this one, stuck trying for boundaries.

Can we blame her though? Charles did an interview where he admitted to his infidelity way before Diana's interview (he in 1994, she in 1995) hoping to cleanse the fact that he did step out in the marriage and justify his actions.  Wasn't his book released before the Morton book as well? (Not 100% sure).  Like i said above, these two were always airing out their laundry to gain favour with the public.  At least Charles had Camilla who he can trust.  Diana really had nobody. Plus Diana was way better at courting public favour and more likable than he was.  Still and forever will I be on team Di.

Another fun fact, the actress that played Lady Sue Hussey also played Camilla in the parody comedy the Windsors. 

Forgot to add, the Queen throwing in that she's been married for 48 years to Diana's face was cruel. If Philip stepped out of the marriage (there's never been a proven fact) he was discreet and he always put his wife above any others and showed her love and respect. I am not a fan of Philip's to say the least, I disliked the man, but i have to give credit where credit was due.  His son could have learned something.

Edited November 13, 2022 by greekmom

[Spartan Girl]

57 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Forgot to add, the Queen throwing in that she's been married for 48 years to Diana's face was cruel. If Philip stepped out of the marriage (there's never been a proven fact) he was discreet and he always put his wife above any others and showed her love and respect. I am not a fan of Philip's to say the least, I disliked the man, but i have to give credit where credit was due.  His son could have learned something

This. Philip isn’t exactly Prince Charming himself, but Charles has him beat in the Jerkass Olympics by a mile. And I’m lowballing.

The fireworks sequence intercutting with the interview was very well done.

I did like the bit with William trying to fix Granny’s TV. Plus, the corgis! 😍😍😍

Edited November 13, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Straycat80]

I felt Williams pain, and not just because his parents were airing their dirty laundry in public, but having to teach his grandmothers how to work the new remote. Lol! And where has Harry been, it’s like they forgot about him. 
That interview was a big deal when it aired. Diana didn’t have to do that but I agree with everyone saying she loved being a victim. She wasn’t thinking how this would impact her sons. 
Why do the British celebrate Guy Fawkes, who tried to blow up the royal family? 

[paramitch]

18 hours ago, Joana said:

And I absolutely detest the revisionist history in this season. I don't feel particularly strongly about Diana one way or another and I know with the passage of time the public opinion of her has changed considerably, but at that time, she wasn't just popular, she was absolutely ADORED. We see absolutely nothing of that here. It feels like we're watching the events of the 90s through today's lens and it doesn't feel right. Like, when Princess Margaret wasn't allowed to marry the man she loved, it wasn't portrayed like a huge injustice it would be considered today. The portrayal was faithful to the spirit of the times - yes, it was sad, but at the same time inevitable. Such perspective is sorely lacking this season.

I disagree on the show not showing that Diana was adored/worshipped by the public. We've seen the huge crowds in all of her appearances and how the people responded to her, plus the constant references by everyone around her to her popularity and place with the people.

I do think we're absolutely watching the 90s through the lens of today, which for me is the point of the show. But I would definitely agree that it doesn't always work, as here. For me, it's a mixed bag -- I feel like this is an episode where we see that Peter Morgan's sympathies were more with Charles than Diana, and that he doesn't seem to understand Diana much at all. Or -- he does understand in a superficial way, but he sort of constantly downplays her feelings so she comes across as somewhat shallow or dimwitted -- and I definitely don't think Diana was either one of those things.

I do think the situation was tragic for almost everyone involved -- I don't hate Charles or Camilla, for instance. But I would definitely say that Diana was a victim in this situation and it's hard not to feel sorry for her when everyone around her made conscious choices, but she had her eyes closed, had zero knowledge of what she was walking into, and really believed she was marrying out of love (or thought so until late in her engagement).

14 hours ago, Artsda said:

Bashir was a horrible person, no journalistic integrity at all. They are getting it right. 

Diana still doing this interview and not thinking of the kids at all really is what always bothered me.  I felt for  William in this one, stuck trying for boundaries.

Yeah, I was really uncomfortable with both Bashir, and with Diana's overshares with William (which appear to have been accurate and something she did often, because she was lonely). I do think other than that, that she was an incredible mom, however, and I wish the show was giving us more of those moments.

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Camilla wasn't a beauty as young, but not bad-looking either. She was donwn-to-earth and sexy and she had a sense of humor. 

Even this series shows that she could give support and admiration Charles needed and make him happy. Actually in the famous tampon call, the beginning (if it's real) where they talked about Charles's speech was really important: that, not the sex part, showed their closeness - they were life partners.   

Yeah, I actually am happy that Charles and Camilla are able to be together. No matter what, I think the years have shown that their relationship was genuine and not something shallow for either.

8 hours ago, BloomsburyRez said:

Not debating that point but I do remember headlines from that time frame as well as late night comic jokes. People were baffled that he chose her over his wife. That era was not kind to women’s appearances (not that it’s improved that much). 

Yeah, I mean, Diana was one of the most beautiful and recognizable women in the world, and yet Charles's passion was for this perfectly ordinary, nice-looking woman with a long face and a Farrah haircut.

The media is cruel to women (don't even get me started on its treatment of Monica Lewinsky back in the day), and was especially so back then.

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, greekmom said:

Can we blame her though? Charles did an interview where he admitted to his infidelity way before Diana's interview (he in 1994, she in 1995) hoping to cleanse the fact that he did step out in the marriage and justify his actions.  Wasn't his book released before the Morton book as well? (Not 100% sure).

 
No. Morton's book was released in 1994, Dimbleby's book 1994.

More about in the history section about S5.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, paramitch said:

I do think we're absolutely watching the 90s through the lens of today, which for me is the point of the show. But I would definitely agree that it doesn't always work, as here. For me, it's a mixed bag -- I feel like this is an episode where we see that Peter Morgan's sympathies were more with Charles than Diana, and that he doesn't seem to understand Diana much at all. Or -- he does understand in a superficial way, but he sort of constantly downplays her feelings so she comes across as somewhat shallow or dimwitted -- and I definitely don't think Diana was either one of those things.

Can you explain where exactly that is shown, please!    

[paramitch]

10 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Can you explain where exactly that is shown, please!    

I'm not sure what you're asking me for here, since my comment was more general, and about the way I see the POV of the show. As far as "the current lens on the 90s," I do think the show may attempt to depict the past but of course we're always going to see it with present sensibilities, etc.

Or if your question is about my POV that Morgan's sympathies are with Charles, not Diana, I think this is shown throughout this episode and many times in the previous ones.

Here, I think we see it in the parallel storylines where Prince William is lectured on the definition of treason (it's not subtle), very clearly counterpointed against scenes of Diana, who is preparing to "betray" the royals in her interview. And in the scenes of a happy Camilla and Charles against scenes of an isolated and angry Diana, etc.

I enjoy the show's more nuanced exploration of several characters, I just wish it wasn't quite so consistently at the expense of Elizabeth (frequently across all seasons), or this season, with Diana.

[Roseanna]

18 hours ago, paramitch said:

Or if your question is about my POV that Morgan's sympathies are with Charles, not Diana, I think this is shown throughout this episode and many times in the previous ones.

I meant that. I just rewatched the episode anew and all I saw that Morton took Diana's side very strongly and directly accused the whole royal family and his claim was strengthened by the scene that was shown in the sama time.

18 hours ago, paramitch said:

Here, I think we see it in the parallel storylines where Prince William is lectured on the definition of treason (it's not subtle), very clearly counterpointed against scenes of Diana, who is preparing to "betray" the royals in her interview.

I mentioned that above.

However, Charles was just as disloyal towards the Queen in his conversations with *two* PMs.

18 hours ago, paramitch said:

Or if your question is about my POV that Morgan's sympathies are with Charles, not Diana, I think this is shown throughout this episode and many times in the previous ones.

Sorry, I just understood that you meant Morgan. I meant Andrew Morton who wrote the book.

I don't think that the show *should* take sides either way.

Charles's faults are made quite clear, but so are Diana's although in her case they could be explained by mental problems.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Roseanna
correcting a name

[leighdear]

31 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Charles's faults are made quite clear, but so are Diana's although in her case they could be explained by mental problems.

And that was the standard fall-back position in those days, that Diana had mental problems. They don't talk about treatment, but most ordinary people just thought if her husband had been faithful, she wouldn't have been "crazy". 

I think the phone call Diana made to William about Hasnat Khan was just to warn him that as mummy had a new "special" friend, not to freak out if he heard something about it.  It's difficult to bridge the gap between honestly preparing your children, and making them your bestie.  She evidentially erred on the side of needy.  

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

And that was the standard fall-back position in those days, that Diana had mental problems. They don't talk about treatment, but most ordinary people just thought if her husband had been faithful, she wouldn't have been "crazy". 

I think the phone call Diana made to William about Hasnat Khan was just to warn him that as mummy had a new "special" friend, not to freak out if he heard something about it.  It's difficult to bridge the gap between honestly preparing your children, and making them your bestie.  She evidentially erred on the side of needy.  

Considering how we see Charles and Camilla making out on Guy Fawkes Night, was William aware that Charles had a “special friend” as well? 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[leighdear]

12 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Considering how we see Charles and Camilla making out on Guy Fawkes Night, was William aware that Charles had a “special friend” as well? 

Well, the Camilla-Gate tapes were leaked in 1993, and Charles did his admission interview in 1994, so obviously William knew about daddy's "special friend" well before Diana started dating Khan in 1995. 

[andromeda331]

I really felt for William in this episode. His mother gives an tell all interview and his father's making out with Camilla at the bonfire. I doubt either was fun for him. I'm glad he tried to set boundaries with his mother. I do wonder if he ever said the same thing to his father. Did he really want to know or see Camilla at all?  I loved his scenes with his grandmother those were really good. Elizabeth's a better grandmother then she is a mother.

Back when the interview first aired I really thought Diana did it on purpose in order to get the divorce. She and Charles had been separated for years, he was with Camilla and there was no fixing the marriage. Seeing manipulated and surprised by the reaction I really don't know what she wanted. Maybe just get her side of the story out like Charles? I still can't believe what a scumbag Bashir was. 

I don't really understand the Queen. Elizabeth tells Diana she's been telling everyone how terrible it was for her. Okay, so everyone knew but no one was going to help her? To talk to her? Why would she think Margaret and Diana were close? She's never seen them close. Plus the family spends most of this season and last bitching about Diana. 

[Roseanna]

15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Back when the interview first aired I really thought Diana did it on purpose in order to get the divorce. She and Charles had been separated for years, he was with Camilla and there was no fixing the marriage. Seeing manipulated and surprised by the reaction I really don't know what she wanted. Maybe just get her side of the story out like Charles?

She had got her side of story already out in Andrew Morton's book. Despite the famous phrase "three people in marriage", the crux of matter in the interview was her attack on Charles, not as a bad husband and a constant adulterer which concerned their private life, but as a public man and as a future king and therefore on monarchy. 

I doubt if she had any kind of strategy ("What I want? How can I get it? How will others react if I do this or that? How will I react then?). Of course it isn't a wonder because she had nobody to advice her. It's really sad that Barhir made her trust in him by warning her to trust anybody else.

About BBC: while it was nonsense that they shouldn't criticize the monarchy, the claim that BBC, as a public broadcasting company, shouldn't offer a platform to one party, was sound enough.  

[pasdetrois]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:38 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Plus, the corgis!

I binged a few episodes last night, so I don't know if this comment belongs here but: while the family was eating and chatting, there came a singular plaintive Corgi whine. The dogs were in the corner, ever alert to the possibility of a treat. LOVE.

As I watch all these folks, I keep thinking that despite their immense privilege, they were unhappy and mean to each other.  Because of their privilege they were extremely self-absorbed.

Eton was probably a welcome escape for William.

I watched the original Diana interview and it dawned on me then that she was extremely manipulative.

I think that because so much of this time period played out in the media around the world and is familiar, it interests me less than the earlier seasons.

Edited November 14, 2022 by pasdetrois

[truthful]

Jeez, Diana isn't really coming off great the last two episodes. Sad thing is she really thought this was her taking control back in her life, but it was just another case of people using her.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

Eton was probably a welcome escape for William.

I hope so. I think the faculty did its best to make sure he was protected, but I'm sure he still took a lot of grief.

[3 is enough]

I really didn’t need to see “Dukey” getting ready for bed.  They could have had the same scene with him wearing pajamas. 

[BusyOctober]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:12 PM, Straycat80 said:

Why do the British celebrate Guy Fawkes, who tried to blow up the royal family? 

It’s more of a celebration that the treasonous plot was discovered, before any harm was done to the Protestant Members of Parliament or the King. The Catholic terrorists, including Guy Fawkes, were captured, tortured and killed. 

[buttersister]

Jeez and scrambled eggs. Show may be leaning Charles with the casting, but him feeling all guilty coming to see Diana? More like he was Team Camilla from the jump and could never deny it. Spineless, entitled douche.  

[PeterPirate]

I'm surprised they didn't title this episode Vendetta.    

The reference to Rupert Murdoch was a nice touch.  As was the shot of Guy Fawkes being burned in effigy.  

Dukey lost a leg in war, I guess it was not inappropriate to show that.   

Quite unbalanced of the show to portray William's reaction to his mother's interview, but not to his father's interview or the publication of the Camilla tape.  Who knows, maybe they intend to have him grow up to be like his father. 

[Athena5217]

The lack of Harry in this episode really bothered me. I know that Morgan is focusing more on William because he is the future king but it seems unrealistic that no one would ask how Harry would feel about the interview. Harry would have been 10 or 11 in 1995 when the interview aired, so it seems like he would have seen it or heard about it from schoolmates.

I think Harry was in boarding school at the time so that explains why he isn’t with Diana, but it seems weird not to see her phoning him. She loved both her sons very much.

I did enjoy the interaction with William and the Queen and Queen Mother about the television. Even though it probably didn’t happen, it’s a realistic family dynamic we can relate to. William is young so he must know how to fix the TV, LOL.

[buttersister]

1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

I know that Morgan is focusing more on William because he is the future king

And he's being played by Dominic West's son.

[herbaltease]

On 11/12/2022 at 5:36 AM, Roseanna said:

She treated his 13-year son partly like he was still a little boy (who wants his mom behave like that in public?), partly as his confidante. 

Elizabeth was quite right by saying that it's not the child's job to be worried about his parents.

I give the show runners credit for deftly portraying what life with an emotionally immature parent can be like. My dad is a Diana. These types of parents often choose one child to serve as both their "baby" and confidante with no regard for what it does to the child. Good on show!William for having the wisdom and courage to put up a boundary at such a young age because that's really all you can do with in these situations.

[Lady Whistleup]

I felt horrible for William. You could tell that when she told William about the new "special friend" that he had already been down this path many times before. I also enjoyed William helping his granny get a satellite TV. It was the nice human touch that this season has actually lacked.

I also liked the conversation between Diana and Elizabeth. The Crown is good at doing this sort of thing -- I could see Elizabeth's point, but I could also see Diana's. I also think this was the first time I could see why Imelda Staunton's casting "worked" -- Staunton's steeliness and toughness were perfect for that monologue she gave to Diana.

Otherwise, this episode was rather boring. I didn't care about the suits debating the Bashir interview. 

[BloomsburyRez]

10 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

The lack of Harry in this episode really bothered me. I know that Morgan is focusing more on William because he is the future king but it seems unrealistic that no one would ask how Harry would feel about the interview. Harry would have been 10 or 11 in 1995 when the interview aired, so it seems like he would have seen it or heard about it from schoolmates.

It was awkward enough seeing a depiction of William as a teen dealing with this. As the baby Harry was probably sheltered more by both of his parents. Plus at a boarding school at that age the others wouldn’t have seen it although probably knew enough to talk about it after the next school break. William was allowed to watch it in the dean’s office as TVs were not allowed. I doubt Harry’s school let him watch it. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I agree the lack of Harry is weird, but it's a very Peter Morgan thing to do -- he only writes about people who capture his imagination. If you watched the Crown you'd barely be aware of the existence of Prince Edward, for example.

[Lady Jane]

On 11/11/2022 at 9:53 AM, Dejana said:

You have to wonder what interview Diana would’ve given if Martin Bashir hadn't manipulated her. Charles had already gone on the record with his side, and other TV networks were wooing her. The tapes for Diana, Her True Story covered much of the same terrain, showed the same lack of consideration to her sons, and that predated Bashir. He was wildly unethical, but I can picture Diana giving the same sort of emotional, relevatory interview to Oprah or Barbara Walters as well, which surely would’ve aired in the UK eventually.

This. How Bashir got the interview (shady, unethical, gross, probably criminal) didn't change the content of what Diana said. She said what she said, and that was her truth. A skilled interviewer could probably have gotten her to say much more. 

[lovinbob]

The shot of Diana applying her eyeliner was hilarious to me -- her heavily drawn eyes and the particular downward tilt of her head are so memorable from that interview. It seems like this is the moment that so much of Elizabeth Debicki's portrayal draws upon, throughout the season.

[Magnumfangirl]

Di liked to play the victim, but I wonder if an acknowledgement from the Queen that Charles had wronged her might have gone a long way to improve relations between Di, the royals, and the firm.