S02.E04: In the Sandbox

[chocolatine]

26 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Albie has to literally be told everything with women. He is getting oral sex and is asking the woman .....in the middle of the process.....if he can orgasm. 

That to me is just good etiquette when having sex with someone for the first time. He's giving her advance warning in case she doesn't want to swallow.

[DrSpaceman73]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That to me is just good etiquette when having sex with someone for the first time. He's giving her advance warning in case she doesn't want to swallow.

If he said 'I am cumming' that is such a warning.   

His was a question. 

Also as far as mixed signals,.didn't she invite him into her room after the first night and he said no, then the next day he was like 'well I wanted to'......but you didn't?  

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, WatcherUatl10 said:

It would be ironic, considering how judgy Valentina is/was toward Lucia and Mia, if Isabella asked Harper about sexual harassment and how it pertains to a boss giving an employee gifts.

Would Harper have any idea what the laws were in Italy regarding sexual harassment? 

Did they explain why Mia and Lucia can't just go home during the day?  I don't really get why they stick around the hotel or in the immediate area all day long. 

[Carolina Girl]

14 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Jesus just out with it Harper.  So annoying.

Every scene she's in seems to run at 16 RPM.  

[carrps]

I loved the scene where Lucia catches a glimpse of the painting of Saint Lucy (Santa Lucia) and freaks out.

Who's going to be Saint Sebastion?

I just realized Albie was named after his grandfather. Duh. Bert. Albie. Albert(o).

[dmc]

this has no bearing on anything but Valentina is really pretty and she has perfect bangs a la Andie in the Devil Wears Prada

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

If he said 'I am cumming' that is such a warning.   

His was a question. 

He did both but asking is just a good consensual practice. 

In fact, it's the one thing that made me reconsider my initial thought that he'd turn out to be a latent misogynist. 

[iMonrey]

I was frustrated by this episode as well. I just wanted Ethan to spill and tell Harper that Cameron picked up a couple of hookers, brought them up to their rooms to "party" but that he did not partake. I mean, is that so hard? She clearly knows something is up, she asked him three times, then pouted when he didn't tell the whole story. Dude - she knows.

From the start Harper seemed to be weighing the value of her marriage against Cameron and Daphne. She's been hell-bent on proving their lovey-dovey act is just that - an act. She felt so triumphant about it when she got back. But the fact is that it isn't an act. Cameron and Daphne really do care for each other in their own way. They just have a different kind of marriage. One shouldn't be valued over the other. Just because Daphne and Cameron have affairs doesn't mean their marriage is less than. They seem a lot happier with each other than Harper and Ethan do.

I agree seeing Albie go up and remind Portia they were supposed to hang out was pretty cringe but he's got no game and seems like a nice boy. I'm glad he finally got some.

I don't really care what happens with Tanya. She's cringe too.

[susannot]

6 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

That’s textbook sexual harassment.

It really isn't, because there is no employment relationship between Cameron and Harper, unless I have misunderstood.

[dmc]

13 minutes ago, susannot said:

It really isn't, because there is no employment relationship between Cameron and Harper, unless I have misunderstood.

Sexual harassment is a type of harassmentinvolving the use of explicit or implicit sexual overtones, including the unwelcome and inappropriate promises of rewards in exchange for sexual favors.[1] Sexual harassment includes a range of actions from verbal transgressions to sexual abuse or assault.[2] Harassment can occur in many different social settings such as the workplace, the home, school, or religious institutions. Harassers or victims may be of any sex or gender.[3]

 

The perpetrator can be anyone, such as a client, a co-worker, a parent or legal guardian, relative, a teacher or professor, a student, a friend, or a stranger.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment

I don’t usually comment on something unless I know the definition.

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[skotnikov]

I'm quite sure the condom wrap was left there intentionally to cause the rift between Ethan and Harper.

& my new theory about the bodies is that – since it's a homage to Italian cinema of a kind – that bodies will be couple of homosexuals from Tom Hollander's entourage, a la Pasolini, who was robed and beaten to death by a handsome young guy (and we've seen plenty of them in this episode). 

I'm also quite sure that Jack films his hook ups for Onlyfans.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by skotnikov

[aghst]

6 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Also has anyone figured out what hotel they are staying at in real life? I meant its real name. I want to price it!

It’s a Four Seasons Hotel renovated from an old convent.

I posted the link in the Media thread.

IIRC cheapest rooms are around 500 Euros.

[dmc]

11 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

I'm quite sure the condom wrap was left there intentionally to cause the rift between Ethan and Harper.

& my new theory about the bodies is that – since it's a homage to Italian cinema of a kind – that bodies will be couple of homosexuals from Tom Hollander's entourage, a la Pasolini, who was robed and beaten to death by a handsome young guy (and we've seen plenty of them in this episode). 

I'm also quite sure that Jack films his hook ups for Onlyfans.  

I think so too.  Did you see Cameron’s pointed looks at Harper?  I’m not sure why though.  I don’t think this is some big scam for $$$.  I also don’t like Daphne would have separated and basically called her husband’s friends Madoff types if this was a plan 

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[shapeshifter]

On 11/21/2022 at 12:58 AM, Armchair Critic said:

Weren't Ethan and Cameron college room mates? They may have fooled around back then. Cameron seems like he is into anything that makes him feel good (and gives him blackmail material).

21 hours ago, dmc said:

I feel like Ethan is the wildcard here. His motivations are murky. But he leapt at the chance to go on this vacation with Cameron and his loyalty seems to Cameron over his wife even if Cameron doesn’t know or wouldn’t find out. 

19 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

As for Ethan, his motives are less clear. Does Cameron have something on him?

Ethan has been obeying Cameron's "bro code" since the moment he agreed to the vacation. Is blackmail for college sexcapades too obvious? Maybe Ethan had to do some cheating or stealing or selling the hacking of grades to stay in college, and maybe Cameron made Ethan "his bitch" by first demanding sex, and then using that for additional blackmail. Or maybe it's just that Cameron is a hedonist and Ethan is a voyeur.


 

19 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I liked how delighted Bert was to have a half naked woman in his room. He's probably the one who will let slip to Albie who Lucia actually is. That man cannot keep his mouth shut.

And then Albie goes for a swim so he doesn't have to see his dad, but his father follows him into the water, they struggle and both drown?
Lucia seemed like she maybe was imagining escaping to LA to be Albie's bride. If so, wonder how the drowning of Albie and his father would effect Lucia? Do they still have convents in Italy where religious prostitutes wanting to leave the profession can become novices?

Edited November 22, 2022 by shapeshifter

[aghst]

6 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I don't see it as mixed signals. Albie is her back up. If something better comes along she goes for it.  If not well albie will do ok. 

And albie seems too inexperienced and too ignorant to catch onto that fact. 

She said something bout how Allie is the type she should date, because he went to a good school, came from good family, etc.

but she’s not excited by him yet she wants to try to see if anything develops.

then she got bowled over by Essex boy.

she’s not really trying too hard.

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Only request I have for these last two episodes ...

There are actually at least 3 episodes left according to TVDb.

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

In fact, it's the one thing that made me reconsider my initial thought that he'd turn out to be a latent misogynist. 

Yea, the last 2 episodes have made me wonder if Albie really is just a truly decent man. I would love that to be true. It'd be a real shock lol.

[ZeeEnnui]

8 hours ago, Verovee said:

I thought maybe Cameron’s sexual come  on  to Ethan sounded like he was mocking Ethan by repeating something Ethan had said to Cameron in the past. Whether or not Cameron agreed in the past - who knows. But that may be what has a hold on Ethan - shame over asking Cameron maybe while drunk or high or both. 

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about this. I think you're onto something here. Maybe, it's Ethan who's been bi-curious and said something to Cameron in the past, and he's using this as a piece of blackmail to keep him in line. I also went to a heavily Greek state school, and there was a lot of very questionable homoerotic shit said (and done in some cases) by frat boys. A lot of times it wasn't so much about them exploring their sexuality (at least not that they'd admit) but it was about exerting a weird control. One of the many reasons, I stayed clear of the entire Greek system much to my grandmother's endless disappointment that I wouldn't pledge to Kappa Kappa Karen. To me Cameron is very manipulative, it's not about sex for him. I think his fluidity comes not from sex but from situational control. I could see him seducing someone to get at their money. Whether he and Ethan had a dorm room fling or something else happened, it's very clear that this is a charged button he's pushing. 

Count me in with everyone else annoyed by Harper's passive aggressive silence. I understand the initial shock. I might also go blank if I discovered a condom wrapper in the sofa. But, after that. Gloves are off, and I'm throwing that Trojan package in Ethan's face. This won't end well. Also, Ethan....Harper is clearly upset. You know something is very wrong. Do NOT open the door. Let Cameron knock. 

It's good to know that Wet Seal rejects from the 1995 collection have been resurrected and transferred to Portia's suitcase. 

I get why Portia hooked up with the British Douche-Bro. He's hot, and the sort of person that you want to hook up with on vacation. You get your passport stamped, and then move onto your next adventure. Not saying you can't meet someone that you can really connect with on vacation, but that's typically not the goal (especially in your 20s). Albie is a nice guy -- it remains to be seen if he's one of those nice guys though -- and it was a dick move for Portia to ask him to hangout when she knows that he he's probably stalking her Instagram page. It was painfully awkward for him to approach her at the beach club, which was both weirdly territorial but also understandable because they were supposed to hangout. It was also so lame that Portia was trying to make him jealous. Girl, he already is, just shag your douchey Brit. I really hope that Albie doesn't discover that he and his father are now Eskimo brothers. At the end of the day, I remember what it was like to be in my early 20s and navigating dating and sex. As a woman, I felt bad if I had a nice guy like Albie that I wasn't into, and I didn't want to be a total bitch to him. I didn't have the confidence or life experience yet to be direct about how I felt or wanted. As for Albie, yes, Portia has been giving off some subtle friendzone signals but like most boys and men, they cannot read a room to save their life. It seems to be a life skill that not every guy learns. The whole situation just makes me cringe. 

[Avabelle]

Portia patronisingly calling Albie sweet and saying she didn’t want to hurt him or lead him on/whatever it was while she was drooling all over the Essex kid rubbed me up the wrong way. You don’t have to like Albie but I hated how she was practically sneering at him with the other guy.

[Irlandesa]

42 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

I get why Portia hooked up with the British Douche-Bro. He's hot, and the sort of person that you want to hook up with on vacation.

I think the hardest part of this for me is that I intellectually understand hooking up with the guy you find hot on vacation over the guy who likes you but doesn't do anything for you.

But even though Albie probably has a dorkier look, I find him hotter than Essex dude so the story isn't clicking for me on a purely shallow level. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Irlandesa

[JD5166]

Oh boy, I know everyone thinks this was boring but wow...so much to unravel! I am exactly like Harper, I would’ve done the exact same thing she did. That wrapper was totally left by Cam for her to find, and his plan seems to be working wonderfully. I still think Harper might have more up her sleeve than she’s letting on, the comment about “maybe” not knowing the same people as Daphne struck me as pretty telling. 

Those gay guys are totally sketchy, I worry for Tanya and Portia, I think (gross) sensitive nips guy was sent to distract Portia from what they were planning for lonely, so terribly needy, Tanya. Looks like it doesn’t work from the previews when she brings up the Malibu spa lady! She was the best character on season one I hate that I don’t remember her name. I literally get skeevy creep vibes from that sensitive nips guy, I’be met too many guys like him on vacation before, ew.

I still don’t care about the prostitutes, I hope Albie doesn’t end up being a jerk, he seems like such a nice innocent-ish kid. 

I need a second watch, but I thought this was great! 

[Fake Jan Brady]

13 hours ago, ahpny said:

There is something off about the gaggle of gay guys so intently befriending Tanya.  

She reminds them of Jennifer Coolidge; it makes perfect sense they'd obsess over her.

[nb360]

21 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

It's all a bit Edith Wharton or Henry James. Rich Americans at leisure.

Wharton. This is a great comparison.

But where is our Lily Bart?

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

There are actually at least 3 episodes left according to TVDb.

This HBO page says this season has 7 episodes. So, exactly 3 more.

[jeansheridan]

7 hours ago, susannot said:

It really isn't, because there is no employment relationship between Cameron and Harper, unless I have misunderstood.

This was DMC's comment :). But I agree it was sexual harassment.  Maybe hard to prove in court. I don't really know the laws but what he did makes no sense unless he was trying to get a reaction from her. 

[dmc]

5 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

This was DMC's comment :). But I agree it was sexual harassment.  Maybe hard to prove in court. I don't really know the laws but what he did makes no sense unless he was trying to get a reaction from her. 

I’m not a lawyer, so I am not knowledgeable on what constitutes a case for sexual harassment. But sexual harassment is now an umbrella term that encompasses a lot of different behaviors.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, JD5166 said:

I need a second watch, but I thought this was great! 

Same. I'm a broken record at this point but this season is SO much better than season 1.

[Verovee]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

I’m not a lawyer, so I am not knowledgeable on what constitutes a case for sexual harassment. But sexual harassment is now an umbrella term that encompasses a lot of different behaviors.

If you are talking about a civil legal case you need to have that workplace relationship - so that you have damages. Nothing I’ve seen between Harper and Cameron would rise to justify a civil case. 
If you’re talking about criminal case, there could be an indecent exposure claim which is a sex crime and maybe harassment but it would be a he said /she said  situation and white rich guy isn’t going to get arrested criminally on the word of one person. Especially since it’s happening abroad and the Italian laws probably apply. 
(I’m a civil lawyer but not employment law). 
 

[jeansheridan]

19 hours ago, nb360 said:

But where is our Lily Bart?

Portia is the closest, alas. We don't know why she is so miserable other than she is young, healthy, and pretty and mostly employed. 

[heatherchandler]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:06 PM, iMonrey said:

I just wanted Ethan to spill and tell Harper that Cameron picked up a couple of hookers, brought them up to their rooms to "party" but that he did not partake. I mean, is that so hard? She clearly knows something is up, she asked him three times, then pouted when he didn't tell the whole story. Dude - she knows.

I agree.  I don't think my husband would tell me.. I do not think he would cheat on me, but I also think he would not tell me if his friend cheated on his wife, even if I let him know that I know that it happens.

[AG921]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:31 PM, ZeeEnnui said:

At the end of the day, I remember what it was like to be in my early 20s and navigating dating and sex. As a woman, I felt bad if I had a nice guy like Albie that I wasn't into, and I didn't want to be a total bitch to him. I didn't have the confidence or life experience yet to be direct about how I felt or wanted.

I completely agree with this. I know I gave off lots of "mixed signals" when I was younger because I was honestly too scared to be direct. It can be easier to just try to say the right thing to keep others happy and then take the first easy way out. I'm rooting for Portia! And I find her new hookup friend extremely attractive. I totally get the appeal! Ha!

[Duke2801]

Ok I am glad I’m not the only one frustrated that Harper won’t address Ethan directly about the wrapper. It’s, like c’mon out with it girl!
 

But I guess I’m the only one wondering if the condom wrapper was from Cameron and … Ethan? Like, after that conversation they had about Cam “wanting to be inside him.” Probably a reach but, hey anything is possible at the White Lotus. 
 

On 11/21/2022 at 11:52 AM, CarpeFelis said:

Inside the Luxe Sicilian Hotel That Stars in the New Season of ‘White Lotus’

Wow—it’s history is even more incredible than it looks (and it looks pretty darn phenomenal). Adding this to my “places I want to visit if I ever win the lottery.” 

[Baltimore Betty]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:05 PM, JD5166 said:

Oh boy, I know everyone thinks this was boring but wow...so much to unravel! I am exactly like Harper, I would’ve done the exact same thing she did. That wrapper was totally left by Cam for her to find, and his plan seems to be working wonderfully. I still think Harper might have more up her sleeve than she’s letting on, the comment about “maybe” not knowing the same people as Daphne struck me as pretty telling. 

Those gay guys are totally sketchy, I worry for Tanya and Portia, I think (gross) sensitive nips guy was sent to distract Portia from what they were planning for lonely, so terribly needy, Tanya. Looks like it doesn’t work from the previews when she brings up the Malibu spa lady! She was the best character on season one I hate that I don’t remember her name. I literally get skeevy creep vibes from that sensitive nips guy, I’be met too many guys like him on vacation before, ew.

I still don’t care about the prostitutes, I hope Albie doesn’t end up being a jerk, he seems like such a nice innocent-ish kid. 

I need a second watch, but I thought this was great! 

Yes, there is something going on with those guys for sure, Tanya is easy prey, con men see her coming a million miles away, will she be investing in that house on the island or someone's get rich quick scheme, there is a reason why the main guy of the group mentioned how the owner of the house wound up at the bottom of the rocky cliff, foretelling maybe?

Portia thinks muscle guy is a date, she has no idea she does not have to work that hard to get laid by that guy, also if it was a date he would be interested in a much hotter girl, not the boho fashion victim type that Portia is.  Her wardrobe is the biggest crime that has happened at that resort, well maybe Lucia and Mia's wardrobe too.

Albie, sad, lonely Albie, he is a nice guy but I can see Portia trying to be attracted to him but feels nothing, no spark at all.

Valentina is acting like a love sick puppy with Isabella, buying an expensive brooch for her, gushing over her, this is not the same Valentina we met at first, no tough as nails woman we saw cut a man off at the knees so she could have a cup of coffee in peace...where'd she go?  Also, does Isabella feel the same about Valentina?  

If all Cam wanted to do is make sure to put some doubt in Harper's mind about what her husband was up to all he had to do is leave the condom wrapper in the couch, he did not even have to have the hookers, drugs and booze but I guess he is going for the long con with all the bells and whistles, Daphne knew what was going down, those con artists can read people better than a therapist, they know how to get to their marks, how to divide and conquer, somehow the roles will be reversed, that is my prediction.

I am guessing that Ethan and Cam have had some sort of history of "we were drunk and I let him put it in me, but we are not gay" from college, Daphne probably knows but Harper does not.  

Piano player guy actually took a pill he had no idea what it was, willing to risk it for sex with Mia?  Who does not know Viagra is a blue pill? 

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 11/21/2022 at 8:10 AM, WatcherUatl10 said:

It would be ironic, considering how judgy Valentina is/was toward Lucia and Mia, if Isabella asked Harper about sexual harassment and how it pertains to a boss giving an employee gifts. I've thought for a while that there's something that went on between Ethan and Cameron in college, whether real or perceived, and that might be the bro code where they are concerned and also why Ethan doesn't just do the easy thing and tell Harper what Cameron did, since he was innocent. It may be that he thinks that Cameron will in turn tell her what happened with them in the past.

   Did you catch how Cameron asked Daphne how the night before went for her and Harper? That seemed to confirm that they planned all of it, at least to me.

   I think Jack's just what he claims. He's more of what Portia SAYS she wants, but Albie is more what she SHOULD want. When I was younger I hung around with a lot of older, rich gay men, and they enjoy the good-looking hangers-on. I don't know if Hollander is on the up and up, but the story about the island, while it should set off alarm bells, is not much different than much of the Sicilian art and history. It's all about risks and beauty.

   The one thing that didn't ring true for me, though, was Mia not knowing that Viagra is blue. EVERYONE knows that. It was in their ads.

Generic Viagra isn’t blue.  Don’t ask me how I know that.  It definitely is a tablet, though, not a capsule.  But these girls aren’t supposed to be super bright or knowledgeable about medicine.  

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:12 AM, dmc said:

I’m not a lawyer, so I am not knowledgeable on what constitutes a case for sexual harassment. But sexual harassment is now an umbrella term that encompasses a lot of different behaviors.

It’s not sexual harassment in a legal context in that you can’t make a legal case, because you suffered no damages in terms of your employment.  It may be sexual assault, if you were sufficiently harmed or frightened and chose to pursue legal remedies.  Very remote possibility of recovery.  What it IS, is, inappropriate and borderline menacing conduct by a friend of your husband’s.  He was trying something there, pushing boundaries to see what she would accept.  That’s what he does.  But not everything is illegal and not everything needs to be viewed through a legal framework like “sexual harassment.”  

[Rebecca berkowit]

I agree that something is off with the sudden interest in Tanya from the gay group.  It could just be poor writing.  There were a couple of things in this episode that seemed like abrupt transitions to me to move the story along without sufficient setup.  This one with the gay guys, and also the thing with Valentina suddenly being super stalky and into her employee.  Not that either plotline couldn’t  happen, but they don’t seem well set up in light of what has come before.  So it makes me think there’s something up there, especially with the gay guys.  
 

I get why Portia is attracted to the nephew.  The nephew is hot and sexy and confident, and they just have chemistry. She’s on vacation and this is what she wants.   Even before she commented that Albie could be more aggressive, even during their first dinner in the restaurant, it didn’t seem like they were really clicking.  She seems a bit unhinged (didn’t she mention she was off her meds or did I had that wrong), and he seemed like he was just listening to her because she was a pretty girl and he hoped to get laid.  He may be more like his dad and uncle that he wants to admit, and he seems to dislike any parts of himself that remind him of them, even to the extent of distancing himself from his totally normal human sex drive.   It’s like he wants to be punished for that, probably because he sees how his mom was so hurt by his dad.   He can’t see that he can still have a sex drive and go after women, and not end up a cheater like his dad.    He tries too hard to condemn traditional masculinity and get permission for everything, it’s like he thinks that’s how he’s supposed to act.  I like Lucia for him, I think she felt bad for him and wanted to do something nice (and also saw a possible payout, nothing is black and white on this show).  
 

As for Harper and Ethan, I don’t get why she wouldn’t have just asked immediately what the deal was with the condom wrapper.  But if she had done that, it wouldn’t have made for such dramatic tension in the storyline.  I almost want to chalk that one up to hacky writing as well.  BUT, it does set up an interesting predicament for the couple.  See, she wants him to “come clean,” and gives him numerous opportunities to do so, and he appears instead to just dig himself deeper in her eyes, which is true.  BUT, he didn’t use a condom.  He doesn’t even know it’s there.  So he can’t “come clean,” at least not by confessing he used a condom, which is what she thinks. He has no idea what she thinks he did.   So, even though neither did anything wrong, it puts them both in an untenable situation which may hurt the marriage irrevocably. If she had just confronted him immediately, this situation would not have arisen.  So maybe that’s what the writer meant to do, to create this horrible miscommunication to show how precarious marriage really is.  It is true that he could simply have confessed that they hung around with some hookers and Cameron slept with them.  But, I get why he wouldn’t.  First, the bro code is real. I’m a woman, but I wouldn’t tell my husband if I was out with a female friend, no matter how distant, and she did something bad.  Especially if my husband knew her husband.  I just wouldn’t want to possibly ruin their marriage.  Also, Ethan was really drunk, he did kiss Mia, and he probably doesn’t remember a lot of what happened.  He feels guilty, because he really shouldn’t have done even as much as he did.  And she wouldn’t take kindly to his hanging around with hookers, at all.  

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

boho fashion victim type that Portia is.  Her wardrobe is the biggest crime that has happened at that resort

Being a flower child of the 70s who then spent decades dressing for a business-wardrobe-conservative work environment, I get a vicarious enjoyment from Portia's wardrobe.
Has anyone read in an interview whether Portia's clothes are supposed to be hideous? 
Further context note: I loved The Nanny's wardrobe too.
Note to self: Probably do another culling of blazers in my post-retirement closet.

Edited November 23, 2022 by shapeshifter
regrouped like-comments in separate posts

[jeansheridan]

7 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

And she wouldn’t take kindly to his hanging around with hookers, at all.  

Yeah this. I have a friend who loves strip places and is open about it.  When my other friend group found out there was a negative reaction. It's not the same level but there is sort of a division of people who are open about such things and other people who think that behavior should stay quiet or not happen at all. Harper seems like she tolerates porn but sex workers? In her space too? She'd be...something. Definitely not happy.

[Rebecca berkowit]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Being a flower child of the 70s who then spent decades dressing for a business-wardrobe-conservative work environment, I get a vicarious enjoyment from Portia's wardrobe.
Has anyone read in an interview whether he clothes are supposed to be hideous? 
Further context note: I loved The Nanny's wardrobe too.
Note to self: Probably do another culling of blazers in my post-retirement closet.



 

Now that you mention it, Cameron and Ethan most likely did hook up. Weren't they taking Ecstasy too? 
When Ethan asked Harper what she was worried about, I interpreted the look on her face to mean she was thinking "condom = safe sex," which contributes to her inner conflict about bringing it up.
But maybe the likelihood of a Bro-Code/Bro-Romp is dawning on her too.

I think there could be some sex thing with Ethan and Cameron.  BUT, didn’t  the porn they showed him watching have only women?  He seemed hetero based on that.  And stupid immature guys do make these “no homo” jokes with each other a lot, especially if they went to college together.  

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

But I guess I’m the only one wondering if the condom wrapper was from Cameron and … Ethan? Like, after that conversation they had about Cam “wanting to be inside him.” Probably a reach but, hey anything is possible at the White Lotus. 

3 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I am guessing that Ethan and Cam have had some sort of history of "we were drunk and I let him put it in me, but we are not gay" from college, Daphne probably knows but Harper does not. 

Now that you mention it, Cameron and Ethan most likely did hook up. Weren't they taking Ecstasy too? 
When Ethan asked Harper what she was worried about, I interpreted the look on her face to mean she was thinking "condom = safe sex," which contributes to her inner conflict about bringing it up.
But maybe the likelihood of a Bro-Code/Bro-Romp is dawning on her too.

 

21 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

I think there could be some sex thing with Ethan and Cameron.  BUT, didn’t  the porn they showed him watching have only women?  He seemed hetero based on that.

Someone asked why Ethan would prefer porn to someone who looks like Harper.
Is it possible Ethan was using porn to try to condition himself to respond more to hetero impulses?
Is that even a use of porn for bi-people in a monogamous relationship? 
Or maybe Ethan is using porn to try to keep himself locked "in the closet"?
Have we ever seen through the camera's lens what attracts Ethan?
It could be progressive to show someone like Ethan who is asexual. There were some hints from Cameron that he could be.

Edited November 23, 2022 by shapeshifter
regrouped similar comments

[Rebecca berkowit]

13 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Someone asked why Ethan would prefer porn to someone who looks like Harper.
Is it possible Ethan was using porn to try to condition himself to respond more to hetero impulses?
Is that even a use of porn for bi-people in a monogamous relationship? 
Or maybe Ethan is using porn to try to keep himself locked "in the closet"?
Have we ever seen through the camera's lens what attracts Ethan?
It could be progressive to show someone like Ethan who is asexual. There were some hints from Cameron that he could be.

I mean… I guess he could be bi.  But if they’re going for that he’s repressing homosexuality (as indicated by his lack of interest in his wife and whatever may have happened in college), I would think it would make more sense for him to secretly look at gay porn.  He’s alone.  Usually what we look at when we are alone and free of judgment is what we are really into.  Perhaps he’s trying to condition himself, but I think, especially when his wife is out, he’s more likely to take every secret opportunity to look at what he really likes.  Asexuals aren’t interested in porn, are they?  I do get from Cameron that Ethan did not seem very sexually active in college.  This could just be “compared to Cameron,” or it could be an indication that maybe he was secretly not into girls at all.  

Edited November 23, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[izabella]

13 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

This could just be “compared to Cameron,” or it could be an indication that maybe he was secretly not into girls at all.  

Wasn't he saying that Ethan was a nerd?  I assume as opposed to Cameron who was probably a frat bro.

[Rebecca berkowit]

22 minutes ago, izabella said:

Wasn't he saying that Ethan was a nerd?  I assume as opposed to Cameron who was probably a frat bro.

Yes.  But it is weird that we haven’t seen him have sex with his wife at all, once, during this whole trip.  He’s either just not into her, or there’s something else.  Everyone else at the resort is going at it like rabbits, or trying to.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, WatcherUatl10 said:

The woman he was looking at looks a lot more like Daphne than she does like Harper, and nothing at all like Cameron.

Right. But I was mainly wondering about an in-person person walking around the resort.

[Verovee]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Being a flower child of the 70s who then spent decades dressing for a business-wardrobe-conservative work environment, I get a vicarious enjoyment from Portia's wardrobe.
Has anyone read in an interview whether he clothes are supposed to be hideous? 
Further context note: I loved The Nanny's wardrobe too.
Note to self: Probably do another culling of blazers in my post-retirement closet.

Yes- in fact the actress who plays Portia crocheted the hat she was wearing with that cutoff jersey. She is styling the character herself and says she is intentionally picking trendy pieces that don’t go well together. 
I will try to find the interview where she says this and post in the media thread. 
l don’t like her style for the most part but don’t find it quite as hideous as some of you do. 

[MBayGal]

Someone said Cameron was doing Lucia on Ethan's couch. If true, I did not get that. I thought Cameron was in his room.  That's where  he and the girls woke up the next morning.  But I think he planted the condom in Ethan's couch while Ethan was barfing in the bathroom. 

One thing that I don't get is why everyone who has sex wakes up the next morning wearing tight underwear! This is HBO, yet they even have the whores presumably putting on their thongs and bras before passing out in the guy's bed.  It's ridiculous!!!

[Baltimore Betty]

10 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Someone said Cameron was doing Lucia on Ethan's couch. If true, I did not get that. I thought Cameron was in his room.  That's where  he and the girls woke up the next morning.  But I think he planted the condom in Ethan's couch while Ethan was barfing in the bathroom. 

One thing that I don't get is why everyone who has sex wakes up the next morning wearing tight underwear! This is HBO, yet they even have the whores presumably putting on their thongs and bras before passing out in the guy's bed.  It's ridiculous!!!

Yes, Cameron brought the party in to Ethan's room and had sex with Lucia on the couch in Ethan's room, (rude is an understatement, calling it a dick move would be too obvious) but I guess it was all part of the plan to trap Ethan in to some scenario in which Cam could blackmail him in to giving him money.

The full set of underwear the girls were put on after a night of wild romping was an odd choice for sure, why bother because in my wild days if I am putting my underwear back on I am also getting dressed and going home, lol.  As for Cam and the girls waking up in his bed, that is probably where they wandered back to after Ethan gave the ho's the heave ho after the party was over.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Yes, Cameron brought the party in to Ethan's room and had sex with Lucia on the couch in Ethan's room

I didn't notice that. So then the condom wrapper being left on the couch was just as likely an accident as intentional.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Cameron brought the party in to Ethan's room and had sex with Lucia on the couch in Ethan's room, (rude is an understatement, calling it a dick move would be too obvious) but I guess it was all part of the plan to trap Ethan in to some scenario in which Cam could blackmail him in to giving him money.

It doesn't seem likely Cameron left the wrapper there on purpose. Harper refuses to confront Ethan over it and I doubt Cameron wants Ethan to tell Harper the condom wrapper was his. This doesn't really give Cameron any leverage.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Portia is awful. Poor Albie.

Sex in a church. What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, I too don't get Ethan protecting the bro code over his marriage. What's Cameron got on him?

Now I'm wondering if perhaps Isabella is lowkey working Valentina. (Or if she's eventually going get her salad tossed by Valentina, ha ha.)

Was Albie a virgin? Who passes out from a blow job?

Quote

My least favorite ep all around.

I think it was one of my favorites. There was a lot of incisive character development.

Quote

Maybe he snaps and kills Dominic?

Wait, what? 🤯

Quote

The one thing that didn't ring true for me, though, was Mia not knowing that Viagra is blue. EVERYONE knows that. It was in their ads.

Some people use "Viagra" as a generic term and its competitor Cialis is a yellow tablet.

Re the comments about Portia's fashion sense--or lack thereof--a number of her outfits are on the Worn on TV site. That usually means a) the clothing is or recently was available for purchase at known stores; or, b) viewers have expressed an interest in buying the clothes; and/or, c) it's deliberate product placement on behalf of a vendor or designer to help drive sales. Look-see here.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It doesn't seem likely Cameron left the wrapper there on purpose. Harper refuses to confront Ethan over it and I doubt Cameron wants Ethan to tell Harper the condom wrapper was his. This doesn't really give Cameron any leverage.

Good points, @iMonrey, about how it doesn't make sense that Cameron would leave the condom wrapper there on purpose since it would quite likely implicate his own infidelity. 

However:

1. Cameron either knows or suspects that Daphne already knows he cheats, 
   and
2. As demonstrated by the game of Chicken on jet skiis, Cameron enjoys engaging in games of risk that are potentially lethal to himself and his friends,
   and
3. Cameron engages in possibly ruinous financial risks, and is now willing and eager to rope his old friend Ethan into such a risky endeavor.

I am now considering that Ethan's problems with sexual performance may date back to having had Cameron as a roommate who tormented and gaslit him for years, whether or not anything physical ever happened.

Edited November 26, 2022 by shapeshifter