S02.E04: In the Sandbox

[peachmangosteen]

Airs November 20th.

[dmc]

Way to dig yourself in deeper, Ethan...you are not a good liar...you didn't even do anything just be honest. She knows you are lying.

I feel like there is an argument that Ethan is the worst one.

First he signs his wife up for this trip with people they never hang out with and a roommate he barely tolerated. Then he acts like she's crazy for pointing all the weird shit about this vapid couple. I also suspect he knows her well enough to know this trip is not her comfort zone.

He has the personality of a pea. When they are alone, he mostly ignores her or makes the most banal conversation or he's coming down on her for pointing the weird shit about the couple he never hangs out with.

I cannot root for these two.  Like what is their relationship?

Portia...that guy is Defcon 1 awful. There's no one better at that nice hotel. Also why are you clothes so bad...what is Tanya paying you?  And her outfit womp womp womp

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[AzureOwl]

Mia isn't very bright. If Giuseppe had the kind of contacts that could give her a start in the music business, he wouldn't be a fucking lounge singer at a hotel.

[izabella]

50 minutes ago, dmc said:

Way to dig yourself in deeper, Ethan...you are not a good liar...you didn't even do anything just be honest. She knows you are lying.

I feel like there is an argument that Ethan is the worst one.

First he signs his wife up for this trip with people they never hang out with and a roommate he barely tolerated. Then he acts like she's crazy for pointing all the weird shit about this vapid couple. I also suspect he knows her well enough to know this trip is not her comfort zone.

He has the personality of a pea. When they are alone, he mostly ignores her or makes the most banal conversation or he's coming down on her for pointing the weird shit about the couple he never hangs out with.

I cannot root for these two.  Like what is their relationship?

All of this. 

I don't understand why Ethan didn't tell her what happened.  She told him that Daphne indicated her husband cheats on her, so he had the perfect opening to say, "Yeah, he does!  He cheated on her last night."   But I guess he decided bro code was more important than being honest with his wife?

Edited November 21, 2022 by izabella

[dmc]

6 minutes ago, izabella said:

All of this. 

I don't understand why Ethan didn't tell her what happened.  She told him that Daphne indicated her husband cheats on her, so he had the perfect opening to say, "Yeah, he does!  He cheated on her last night."   But I guess he decided bro code was more important than being honest with his wife?

Bro code with someone he doesn’t even see. Also he knows his wife is not even friends with Daphne.  What’s his allegiance to someone he barely spoke to since college? 

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[jeansheridan]

Treading water episode. I learned nothing new other than Tom Hollander is charming. 

I hate how Harper "fights". Just throw the damn wrapper at him. She left it out on the counter. So passive aggressive.  And irritating.  Ethan annoys me too but he was probably horrifically hung over. 

My least favorite ep all around.

[dmc]

8 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Treading water episode. I learned nothing new other than Tom Hollander is charming. 

I hate how Harper "fights". Just throw the damn wrapper at him. She left it out on the counter. So passive aggressive.  And irritating.  Ethan annoys me too but he was probably horrifically hung over. 

My least favorite ep all around.

I didn’t like the episode either. Ethan annoys me sober as well.  He’s a dud.  

[SHD]

This episode felt three hours long. And I can’t believe this is only the fourth episode. It feels like I’ve been watching this season for months.

I’m gonna stick with it, though. 

[jeansheridan]

Just now, dmc said:

Ethan annoys me sober as well.  He’s a dud.  

I actually think he is very handsome so there's that for me! There isn't much eye candy this season. Albie is OK, but I feel like Mike White isn't thinking about his CIS ladies. 

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Portia...that guy is Defcon 1 awful. There's no one better at that nice hotel. Also why are you clothes so bad...what is Tanya paying you?  And her outfit womp womp womp

Her clothes feel very Northern California to me. We aren't fancy here. Mia and Lucia look gorgeous in their "cheap" dresses. I am impressed at how Harper and Daphne show off slightly different resort wear but clearly wearing clothes meant for their ages. The wardrobe is really on point. I did like that beachy dress Harper had on in the opening scenes. Daphne chose well.

[chocolatine]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Ethan and Harper's marriage ended because of "bro code?" If Harper wasn't so passive-aggressive, and Ethan such a wimp, they could have cleared up this incident within five minutes.

Anyone else think that Tom Hollander's character has a nefarious motive regarding Tanya? He singled her out for a compliment even though there are many more attractive and better dressed women at that hotel. Then he told her that story about Isola Bella and the woman who ended up dead.

That nephew was a total douche bro. Can't believe Portia took him back to her room. I hope everything that happens there is consensual.

I wonder how Albie is going to react when he finds out that his father paid Lucia for sex. Maybe he snaps and kills Dominic?

It was hard to watch Valentina act so eager towards Isabella. I prefer snarky Valentina (like when she caught Lucia and Mia on their walk of shame and told them they looked as fresh as roses), not love-struck Valentina. Also, we already had a similar storyline with Armand and one of his employees last season.

[dmc]

15 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I actually think he is very handsome so there's that for me! There isn't much eye candy this season. Albie is OK, but I feel like Mike White isn't thinking about his CIS ladies. 

Oh, he is handsome.  I meant his personality.

9 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Her clothes feel very Northern California to me. We aren't fancy here. Mia and Lucia look gorgeous in their "cheap" dresses. I am impressed at how Harper and Daphne show off slightly different resort wear but clearly wearing clothes meant for their ages. The wardrobe is really on point. I did like that beachy dress Harper had on in the opening scenes. Daphne chose well.

I’ve never been to Northern California, but I don’t think what is wrong with her clothes is that they aren’t fancy.  I agree Mia and Lucia do look nice.

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[MCMLXXVII]

3 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Mia and Lucia look gorgeous in their "cheap" dresses. 

Given that they’ve “worked” there for awhile, I wish Mia and Lucia would dress more upscale/ toned down to blend in with the hotel’s clientele. They’re beautiful young women, the sequined minidresses and cutout dress seem to unnecessarily scream “cheap hooker” to the Valentinas of the world. 

[dmc]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Ethan and Harper's marriage ended because of "bro code?" If Harper wasn't so passive-aggressive, and Ethan such a wimp, they could have cleared up this incident within five minutes.

Ethan and Harper have other problems.

It’s pretty clear we’re supposed to compare their marriage with Daphne and Cameron.

Daphne and Cameron who each know who each other and know exactly what they signed on for…

compared to Ethan and Harper who never discuss their problems and never have fun together. They can’t even have fun gossiping about another couple.  They view themselves as this intellectual couple but aren’t really that close.

It’s the reason why Harper keeps looking for flaws with Daphne and Cameron because she’s unhappy in her current relationship.  

She doesn’t understand how she’s got a supposedly honest relationship and it feels shitty and Cameron/Daphne relationship is screwed up and they’re happy.  
 

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[izabella]

13 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Anyone else think that Tom Hollander's character has a nefarious motive regarding Tanya? He singled her out for a compliment even though there are many more attractive and better dressed women at that hotel. Then he told her that story about Isola Bella and the woman who ended up dead.

Yes!  I was suspicious when he suddenly was so delighted with her and attached her to their group.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.  But I don't think he would kill her.  He was quick to mention the house in Palermo and the boat, and that they aren't guests of the hotel.   My guess is his life of distraction is paid for by lonely, rich women who don't have any friends. 

[Madding crowd]

Too much Lucia and Mia and I don’t believe they would be allowed to hang around a fancy resort like that. I also think we are supposed to be rooting for them and I’m not. Harper should just ask Ethan about the condom wrapper. I have a bad feeling about the gay guys and Tonya. Of course I have a lot of gay friends and they adore older women and love to hang around with people who look like they are fun.

What was with Cameron saying I want you and all that stuff to Ethan? And Ethan barely speaks so I’m waiting for him to blow up. I agree this wasn’t a great episode. 

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, izabella said:

Yes!  I was suspicious when he suddenly was so delighted with her and attached her to their group.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.  But I don't think he would kill her.  He was quick to mention the house in Palermo and the boat, and that they aren't guests of the hotel.   My guess is his life of distraction is paid for by lonely, rich women who don't have any friends. 

That's what I thought, but I also thought the story about the murdered woman was a warning of sorts. He said the mafia had made her several offers for the island, all of which she refused, and *then* she ended up dead. So maybe he'll have a "business" proposition for her, and if she refuses, he'll have something done to her. The nephew sure seems like a thug; maybe his job is to intimidate the uncle's targets.

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, dmc said:

Way to dig yourself in deeper, Ethan...you are not a good liar...you didn't even do anything just be honest. She knows you are lying.

I feel like there is an argument that Ethan is the worst one.

First he signs his wife up for this trip with people they never hang out with and a roommate he barely tolerated. Then he acts like she's crazy for pointing all the weird shit about this vapid couple. I also suspect he knows her well enough to know this trip is not her comfort zone.

He has the personality of a pea. When they are alone, he mostly ignores her or makes the most banal conversation or he's coming down on her for pointing the weird shit about the couple he never hangs out with.

I cannot root for these two.  Like what is their relationship?

Portia...that guy is Defcon 1 awful. There's no one better at that nice hotel. Also why are you clothes so bad...what is Tanya paying you?  And her outfit womp womp womp

I don't think Portia is looking for anything serious with this guy just a fling so for that he's probably a good choice. 

Is Albie going to have to pay for that BJ?

It did seem like a long slow episude. 

Jesus just out with it Harper.  So annoying. She was way to giddy over the other couples bad marriage ....made her way too happy.  Like they just won a bad marriage contest.  Then the condom wrapper ruined it. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[Irlandesa]

58 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Treading water episode. I learned nothing new other than Tom Hollander is charming. 

I hate how Harper "fights". Just throw the damn wrapper at him. She left it out on the counter. So passive aggressive.  And irritating.  Ethan annoys me too but he was probably horrifically hung over.

Yeah.  She keeps asking what happened over and over again.  Just throw it at him straight. Be mad that he stuck to the "bro code" but the passive aggressiveness is not getting them anywhere.

31 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That nephew was a total douche bro. Can't believe Portia took him back to her room. I hope everything that happens there is consensual.

Oh I think douche bro is a feature, not a bug for her.  She acts like she cares about Albie but she let herself get pulled into that ridiculous "make him jealous" game even though she doesn't need to make him jealous.  Albie is basically all about her.  And she still went to fuck him.

10 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

What was with Cameron saying I want you and all that stuff to Ethan?

Yeah, for those who think there might be homoerotic undertones going on, this just upped the ante even if it was said in a joking manner.  I'm not sure but I do think it's done in a bro-y manner which is why Ethan didn't make anything about it. 

I do think Cameron saying "table for four" after the piano player collapsed was hilarious.  He couldn't care less. 

[jeansheridan]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I do think Cameron saying "table for four" after the piano player collapsed was hilarious.  He couldn't care less. 

That was a brutal seque. Hollander's comment about getting a better pianist was mean too. Just so we remember these are not nice people. 

Then again if I go anywhere in my city I will be walking by a homeless person. You get hardened. And do things like Daphne...send money to charities and hope. That was such a perfect story for her. Of course she runs 5ks for charity!

[jeansheridan]

31 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I also think we are supposed to be rooting for them and I’m not.

I don't think Mike White roots for anyone as a writer. He shows us a world of flawed people and let's them interact. I think it's one of the more challenging aspects to his writing. Last season he made two of the warmest actors--Connie Britton and Steve Zahn--come off like a pair of clueless entitled middle aged white people who had the language but not sincerity of being egalitarian. The writing is good, especially the dialogue. But nobody will be especially likeable if they get screentime. I mean maybe Valentina's crush will be okay. I don't know if White likes or dislikes people. He's good at observing. It's all a bit Edith Wharton or Henry James. Rich Americans at leisure.

Edited November 21, 2022 by jeansheridan

[Armchair Critic]

Weren't Ethan and Cameron college room mates? They may have fooled around back then. Cameron seems like he is into anything that makes him feel good (and gives him blackmail material).

[giovannif7]

22 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

(snip)

Yeah, for those who think there might be homoerotic undertones going on, this just upped the ante even if it was said in a joking manner.  I'm not sure but I do think it's done in a bro-y manner which is why Ethan didn't make anything about it.

I may have misheard slightly, but it didn't seem to me what was said after the "bro-code" agreement was your standard "bro-y" chatter when Cameron, in his boxer shorts and unbuttoned shirt, flops down on Ethan's bed and says:

Quote

Cameron: You know I love you. I just wanna be inside you.

Ethan: No, thank you.

Cameron: Please...

Ethan: No, man.

Cameron: I wanna just touch you...

Ethan: No.

Cameron: I wanna make you feel good...

Ethan: (gets nauseous, runs to the bathroom to throw up)

Based on the looks on both of their faces, this seemed more like Cameron suggesting a repeat of something that happened between them before rather than your usual bro trash-talk - something that Ethan mentally/physically doesn't want to contemplate, or even acknowledge for some reason. I'm sure there'll be more reveals as the season continues.

[Irlandesa]

2 minutes ago, giovannif7 said:

Based on the looks on both of their faces, this seemed more like Cameron suggesting a repeat of something that happened between them before rather than your usual bro trash-talk - something that Ethan mentally/physically doesn't want to contemplate, or even acknowledge for some reason. I'm sure there'll be more reveals as the season continues.

That's possible.  It was definitely more explicit but I though Cam was mocking and Ethan seemed annoyed.  But I also did notice that Ethan threw up right after that exchange.  It's possible that something happened between them a long time ago but I don't think Cam was in serious seduction mode either....but if Ethan said yes, maybe he would have been.

[izabella]

31 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Yeah.  She keeps asking what happened over and over again.  Just throw it at him straight. Be mad that he stuck to the "bro code" but the passive aggressiveness is not getting them anywhere.

Even if Ethan didn't cheat on her, he's lying to her about what did happen and she knows that.  Something happened.  I think she's hoping he'll choose to be honest.  Every time she asks what happened, she's hoping he'll tell her the truth instead of lying.   Each time he lies, she has to absorb that he's just sitting there lying to her face and he's doing it so casually.  I imagine she's questioning if she even knows him, and if he's casually lied to her like that about other things and what those might be. 

6 minutes ago, giovannif7 said:

Based on the looks on both of their faces, this seemed more like Cameron suggesting a repeat of something that happened between them before rather than your usual bro trash-talk - something that Ethan mentally/physically doesn't want to contemplate, or even acknowledge for some reason. I'm sure there'll be more reveals as the season continues.

I was thinking along those lines, too.  I wondered if I had missed a scene between them or something.

[thuganomics85]

So, Valentina has a crush on Isabella (I think that's her name?) after-all.  Between this and all the stuff with Armond last season, I have to imagine that the White Lotus HR department might want to look into reminding their managers that being romantically involved with your subordinates is probably not a good thing...

I definitely think something is going down with Quentin and his friends, and what they really want with Tanya.  Just seems too suspicious that they swoop in right when she's at all-time low (maybe?) and promise her everything.  Have to imagine that there is another angle here.  Especially since Tom Hollander is known for his charming, but shady characters.

Well, the couples are all kinds of fucked up now.  Harper suspicions lead to her finding a used condom wrapper in the couch, but instead of confronting Ethan about it, she just... simmers in the way only Aubrey Plaza can and seems to be single-handily lowering the temperature of the room any time she shows up.  Ethan certainly isn't helping things by honoring his dumb "bro code" with Cameron and isn't just going "Dude, it was crazy!  When he wasn't busy being homoerotic with me, that bastard was totally cheating on his wife right on the damn couch!"  Meanwhile, Cameron and Daphne are just back to being all smiles and acting like the loving couple again.  These four are something else!

So, after much flakiness, awkward flirting, and self-doubting from both parties, both Portia and Albie just end up with someone completely different in their bedrooms.  Yeah, that actually kind of checks out.  Definitely think Portia is going to end up regretting her fling with Jack since he's giving off suspicious vibes as well.  That said, I actually think Lucia does kind of like Albie and there might be something there, but you just know this is all going to end with him finding out that she was hired and slept with Dominic and I imagine some scorch Earth of some kind is coming for everyone involved!  Kind of interesting though that Mia is actually starting to embrace the sex worker life now and sleeping to get ahead, right when Lucia is starting to question it.

It says something about this lot that Bert might end up becoming one of my favorite characters now.  At least his dated, sexist views and crude commentary doesn't cause the damage that everyone else seems hellbent on causing with their own actions.

Only request I have for these last two episodes is to find a way to have at least one Harper/Dominic showdown, so we can see who would win in a stare-down between Aubrey Plaza and Michael Imperioli.  So much rage!!

[aghst]

Harper thought she knew Ethan well, that he isn't the type to cheat.

So her confidence is shaken when he's being evasive about what happened while she was away.

But it seemed like before the dinner, she realized Ethan didn't cheat and she kind of brightened up after moping all day, thinking Ethan had cheated

Lucia knows Albie is Dominic's son since he's from LA and is staying right next to his grandfather and father's rooms.  So is she just trying to rope in another client?

Before she turned to him, she was talking about getting tired of the game she was playing.  But it quickly became sexual between Albie and her so maybe it's another transactional relationship.

So White has set up all these tensions -- betrayals, grifts, infidelities -- but do any of them rise to murder?  Even if Quentin and his gang are after Tanya's money, what could they do, force her to go to the ATM and withdraw millions?  Or else?

The story line for the couples could be applicable for anyone, though there's potentially a lot of money at stake.  If Harper and Ethan have marital problems because of this incident, Ethan would just blame Cameron and wouldn't invest with him so what would be the motive for him trying to get Ethan to cheat?

As for the Di Grasso's where would be the big conflict?  Dominic is  trying to show he's changed, because he needs Albie on his side.  So he gave up the girls, only to see Lucia and Albie hook up and him looking frustrated looking at porn on his laptop.

[MCMLXXVII]

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

That's possible.  It was definitely more explicit but I thought Cam was mocking and Ethan seemed annoyed.  But I also did notice that Ethan threw up right after that exchange.  It's possible that something happened between them a long time ago but I don't think Cam was in serious seduction mode either....but if Ethan said yes, maybe he would have been.

Hmmm….maybe this is where Harper’s sexual harassment law background comes into play? If something did happen between Cam and Ethan in the past, Ethan could just now be realizing it was non-consentual if he was drunk/ on drugs like the night with Lucia and Mia. “Bro-code” is allowing him to continue to repress whatever tension has been between the two guys since the beginning.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Foreshadowing…

[dmc]

27 minutes ago, WatcherUatl10 said:

It would be ironic, considering how judgy Valentina is/was toward Lucia and Mia, if Isabella asked Harper about sexual harassment and how it pertains to a boss giving an employee gifts. I've thought for a while that there's something that went on between Ethan and Cameron in college, whether real or perceived, and that might be the bro code where they are concerned and also why Ethan doesn't just do the easy thing and tell Harper what Cameron did, since he was innocent. It may be that he thinks that Cameron will in turn tell her what happened with them in the past.

   Did you catch how Cameron asked Daphne how the night before went for her and Harper? That seemed to confirm that they planned all of it, at least to me.

   I think Jack's just what he claims. He's more of what Portia SAYS she wants, but Albie is more what she SHOULD want. When I was younger I hung around with a lot of older, rich gay men, and they enjoy the good-looking hangers-on. I don't know if Hollander is on the up and up, but the story about the island, while it should set off alarm bells, is not much different than much of the Sicilian art and history. It's all about risks and beauty.

   The one thing that didn't ring true for me, though, was Mia not knowing that Viagra is blue. EVERYONE knows that. It was in their ads.

I did not know Viagra was blue but I am trying to live an ad free life whatever the cost. 
 

I think Harper’s sexual harassment background has come into play already.

Cameron “Louis CKed” her, she told her husband and he dismissed it.  Here she is a lawyer who works only sexual harassment cases but she even doubts her feelings, she goes to her spouse for support and he outright dismisses her.  Cameron gets the benefit of the doubt. That’s textbook sexual harassment. 
 

And  it happens after Cameron says his company is dealing with bogus sex harassment claims 

OOOOKKKAAYYY Cameron

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[jeansheridan]

14 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Foreshadowing…

Meh. I am glad Mia mentioned she was freaked out from coming off the drugs. There is a serious conversation to be had about sex work and its dangers and exploitation but not sure White will bother. Because once again we have an entitled character, Harper, who advocates for corporate women, but has seemingly ignored these two very obvious women. Or maybe she will see them and we will have an uncomfortable lunch discussion but it will be all theory. 

I honestly think Hollander just wants Tonya to pick up the tab. Again, transactional. I will make you feel good and wanted. He is a different kind of sex worker. He is the kind who listens and flatters and gives her time. And he might find her a stud if she leans that way although the listening to her was the real service. 

I feel a bit bad for Albie. He clearly has zero game. He was quite polite to Lucia too unlike all the other people at the hotel. 

[ahpny]

15 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Harper should just ask Ethan about the condom wrapper.

16 hours ago, dmc said:

Bro code with someone he doesn’t even see.

The basis for his allegiance to the "bro code" with his frenemy from college, who he hasn't been close to in years, is a bit of a mystery. Why  should that trump his "honesty"-based marriage commitment, which should be a far more important and stronger promise? But what was perhaps must enigmatic is why couldn't he deftly handled both obligations at the same time? He's shown to be pretty bright. He could have informed Harper that something else did indeed go on, but he promised Cam to avoid discussing it. Nevertheless, he can confirm to Harper that he did nothing other than get drunk, as she knows, and stay apart from Cam and "company." But didn't Ethan sleep on the couch where Harper found the condom wrapper? If that's correct, that certainly would not help Ethan's cause.  Moreover, had Ethan confessed in part as mentioned above, that would still fail to explain why the condom wrapper was in Ethan's room. Maybe that's where that door between the two rooms comes in handy?

Harper's reluctance to ask about the condom wrapper seems to arise from her not wanting to hear the truth and delaying that as much as possible. Nothing Ethan can say about that is going to be good, so Harper's just putting off the inevitable unpleasantness and perhaps even incipient disintegration of her marriage. I'm not sure how much "better" the result would be had Ethan been more informative, but his repeated failures to fess up are just digging a deeper hole.

Quote

I have a bad feeling about the gay guys and Tonya.

There is something off about the gaggle of gay guys so intently befriending Tanya.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by ahpny

[dmc]

11 minutes ago, ahpny said:

The basis for his allegiance to the "bro code" with his frenemy from college, who he hasn't been close to in years, is a bit of a mystery. Why  should that trump his "honesty"-based marriage commitment, which should be a far more important and stronger promise? But what was perhaps must enigmatic is why couldn't he deftly handled both obligations at the same time? He's shown to be pretty bright. He could have informed Harper that something else did indeed go on, but he promised Cam to avoid discussing it. Nevertheless, he can confirm to Harper that he did nothing other than get drunk, as she knows, and stay apart from Cam and "company." But didn't Ethan sleep on the couch where Harper found the condom wrapper? If that's correct, that certainly would not help Ethan's cause.  Moreover, had Ethan confessed in part as mentioned above, that would still fail to explain why the condom wrapper was in Ethan's room. Maybe that's where that door between the two rooms comes in handy?

Harper's reluctance to ask about the condom wrapper seems to arise from her not wanting to her the truth and delaying that as much as possible. Nothing Ethan can say about that is going to be good, so Harper's just putting off the inevitable unpleasantness and perhaps even incipient disintegration of her marriage. I'm not sure how much "better" the result would be had Ethan been more informative, but his repeated failures to fess up are just digging a deeper hole.

There is something off about the gaggle of gay guys so intently befriending Tonya.  

I feel like Ethan is the wildcard here. His motivations are murky. But he leapt at the chance to go on this vacation with Cameron and his loyalty seems to Cameron over his wife even if Cameron doesn’t know or wouldn’t find out. 
 

I know others have seen a closeness between these two sexually which has escaped me honestly but something is up here.

I tend to think he wants a friend like Cameron and wants to impress him on some level. 
 

This show is more about rich people caught in patterns and less about jaw dropping twists. 
 

Also IF Harper hadn’t been intensely questioning him, who thinks he would haven’t mentioned the investment pitch?  I do. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[Snazzy Daisy]

I see shallow people… 👀

Edited November 21, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[Verovee]

I thought maybe Cameron’s sexual come  on  to Ethan sounded like he was mocking Ethan by repeating something Ethan had said to Cameron in the past. Whether or not Cameron agreed in the past - who knows. But that may be what has a hold on Ethan - shame over asking Cameron maybe while drunk or high or both. 

[DrSpaceman73]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

That's possible.  It was definitely more explicit but I though Cam was mocking and Ethan seemed annoyed.  But I also did notice that Ethan threw up right after that exchange.  It's possible that something happened between them a long time ago but I don't think Cam was in serious seduction mode either....but if Ethan said yes, maybe he would have been.

That did not seem like mocking to me. 

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

Cameron “Louis CKed” her, she told her husband and he dismissed it.  Here she is a lawyer who works only sexual harassment cases but she even doubts her feelings, she goes to her spouse for support and he outright dismisses her.  Cameron gets the benefit of the doubt. That’s textbook sexual harassment. 

Very good point. Harper really has been messed around with on this trip although this last misunderstanding in my opinion is 90% of her fault. 

I can understand why Ethan might not want to admit to kissing a sex worker to his wife. Honesty is fine but there is a point when confession is more for yourself than the other person. Would knowing he kissed a woman briefly while drunk and maybe on drugs make Harper happy or feel more secure? 

I do think it's interesting that Cameron is using the bro-code as a way to measure Ethan's loyalty to himself. He didn't get Ethan to commit adultery but he got him to temporarily lie to his wife. Cameron got his hooks in.

[Traveller519]

Tanya must have an outstanding accountant and lawyer because she is just such a mark for anyone who pays her the slightest bit of attention. Portia could probably triple her salary just by feeding her a daily compliment from a calendar.

Of course, both Portia and Albie fall for their own respective people who lavish them with attention. What luck that they simultaneously find someone hot that's giving them the cheap attention they crave.

Lucia's epiphany regarding her future comes after being shorted. I wonder how long it will last.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Harper seems shell-shocked by the fact that what she thought was true about her and Ethan--that they tell each other everything--is not actually true at all. She tests the theory by giving Ethan multiple chances to tell her what happened but he doesn't come clean. I can see why she didn't immediately confront Ethan about the condom wrapper but I do think she will have to eventually.

As for Ethan, his motives are less clear. Does Cameron have something on him? Does he just feel guilty since he wanted to cheat on Harper although he didn't end up doing it? Did he want to sleep with Mia or with Cameron? Last episode, he watched Cameron and Lucia have sex, kind of like it was the closest he could get to sleeping with Cameron himself. If that's the case, Cameron definitely knows since he had sex on Ethan's couch rather than in his own room.

The show surprised me when after Portia threw Albie over for Jack, Albie ends up with Lucia! I know it's too much to hope but I do not want Albie to find out that Lucia is a prostitute or that she was his father's prostitute first.

I liked how delighted Bert was to have a half naked woman in his room. He's probably the one who will let slip to Albie who Lucia actually is. That man cannot keep his mouth shut.

"Four for dinner" really made me laugh. Good comedic timing there. Mia telling Giuseppe that he can't die was funny too.

Whoever ends up on that boat to the island seems like will have a good chance of being a drowning victim.

[EdnasEdibles]

Albie was driving me bonkers in this episode. He has this weird sense of ownership over Portia. He did it when she was at the pool with the other guy and and then again with the drinks at the beach club. It would be different if he were like "oh I have competition, game is on" and kind of worked his magic and ramped up his flirting but he essentially just comes over and tries to mark his territory. Like getting up and walking over to her at the beach club? No no no no. She clearly made her choice. You guys aren't in an exclusive relationship or anything and in fact, she barely seems interested in you when you guys are together. Just chill out, dude. 

[jeansheridan]

30 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Like getting up and walking over to her at the beach club? No no no no. She clearly made her choice. 

But she went up to him at breakfast specifically to invite him to hang out. Portia is the master of mixed signals and she drives me nuts. Albie should drop her like the drip she is. Lucia may not be the answer either. Chose yourself Albie!

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, Traveller519 said:

Tanya must have an outstanding accountant and lawyer because she is just such a mark for anyone who pays her the slightest bit of attention.

Doesn't she have $500 million? That seems almost impossible to steal entirely. Someone could take her for a million and she'd never feel it. I suspect Hollander did some research. 

[jeansheridan]

Also has anyone figured out what hotel they are staying at in real life? I meant its real name. I want to price it!

[CarpeFelis]

Mia is so dumb! As AzureOwl pointed out upthread, if Giuseppe could actually help her with connections he wouldn’t just be playing piano in a bar himself. And she let a golden opportunity slip right through her fingers. Instead of asking Valentina if she could play, she should have waited until Valentina left and then just sat down at the piano and started playing. We’ve already seen she’s a better singer so she certainly wouldn’t have gotten any complaints from the guests. And then maybe Valentina would be more open to letting her fill in.

Harper is so frustrating! I get that she seems to want Ethan to break down and tell her what happened. But if I were in her place, that condom wrapper would have been thrown in his face. I wonder if Cameron left it there on purpose to cause trouble. He seems like he’d enjoy stirring things up that way. OTOH, it’s also very likely Cameron is doing a loyalty test to see if he can push Ethan to do stuff Harper wouldn’t approve of… leading up to handing over a great deal of money to invest over Harper’s objections.

Jack doesn’t seem particularly menacing to me, just a bit of a chav.

5 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Also has anyone figured out what hotel they are staying at in real life? I meant its real name. I want to price it!

Inside the Luxe Sicilian Hotel That Stars in the New Season of ‘White Lotus’

[DrSpaceman73]

20 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

But she went up to him at breakfast specifically to invite him to hang out. Portia is the master of mixed signals and she drives me nuts. Albie should drop her like the drip she is. Lucia may not be the answer either. Chose yourself Albie!

I don't see it as mixed signals. Albie is her back up. If something better comes along she goes for it.  If not well albie will do ok. 

And albie seems too inexperienced and too ignorant to catch onto that fact. 

[jeansheridan]

1 minute ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Albie is her back up. If something better comes along she goes for it.

But she doesn't say that! I think she is exceptionally rude to him in this ep. Almost cruel. And I was glad he tried to move on. He seems like a sweet person. She doesn't owe him anything but don't invite him and ditch. 

[CarpeFelis]

3 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

But she doesn't say that! I think she is exceptionally rude to him in this ep. Almost cruel. And I was glad he tried to move on. He seems like a sweet person. She doesn't owe him anything but don't invite him and ditch. 

Like many very young women, Portia thinks a nice guy is boring and hasn’t had enough life experience yet to appreciate him. (Also being basically held hostage to drippy Tanya would leave anyone wanting some excitement.) I don’t mean the incel “Nice Guy” who ingratiates himself and expects sex as payback; Albie does seem like a genuinely nice person.

Edited November 21, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[Irlandesa]

10 hours ago, izabella said:

Even if Ethan didn't cheat on her, he's lying to her about what did happen and she knows that.  Something happened.  I think she's hoping he'll choose to be honest.  Every time she asks what happened, she's hoping he'll tell her the truth instead of lying.  

I get that.  I just got frustrated with her not upping the accusations.  She tried giving him the opportunity to be honest, now is the time to catch him in a lie.

24 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I don't see it as mixed signals. Albie is her back up. If something better comes along she goes for it.  If not well albie will do ok. And albie seems too inexperienced and too ignorant to catch onto that fact. 

The thing she's doing is the definition of sending mix signals.  She pulled away the night before.  Then in this episode, she apologized for what happened and wanted to spend time with him.  She has said he should have come in to her room even while admitting to someone (I forget who) that he doesn't rev her engine. 

That doesn't mean he's entitled to her but I also don't think he's wrong for hoping that she'd join him. Part of it is inexperience.  Part of it is hope when it comes to someone he's really interested in.  He's focusing more on the indications that she wants to spend time with him than not.  That's a mistake that not only the youths make.

[dmc]

26 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

But she doesn't say that! I think she is exceptionally rude to him in this ep. Almost cruel. And I was glad he tried to move on. He seems like a sweet person. She doesn't owe him anything but don't invite him and ditch. 

I think all of you have a point. Yes Albie doesn't have ownership of Portia and they just met.  But it's shitty to make plans and blow a person off...this is crappy any time you do it.  I however think Albie will have the last laugh because Portia hookup is terrible...and I have a good radar for that.

I don't find Portia's character remotely interesting but one thing I will say no one is acknowledging is she is in her early 20's.  People in their early 20's take opportunities from employers for granted, whine about having to work and blow people off because they haven't learned to be like...give me some space yet.  This all seems right for her age.  

I still don't think she's very interesting and I am not that invested in this plot.

Edited November 21, 2022 by dmc

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

But she doesn't say that! I think she is exceptionally rude to him in this ep. Almost cruel. And I was glad he tried to move on. He seems like a sweet person. She doesn't owe him anything but don't invite him and ditch. 

Of course she doesn't say it explicitly.  No man or woman ever says it like that.  

But she makes it pretty clear without explicitly saying it.   

Albie has to literally be told everything with women. He is getting oral sex and is asking the woman .....in the middle of the process.....if he can orgasm. 

Yes she is rude to him for using him  As her back up play if nothing better is available.  But I wouldn't fault her for not specifically telling him that.  He is in his mid 20s at least. Read the room albie.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by DrSpaceman73