S02.E05: Juice

[cloeymoon]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:00 AM, JakeyJokes said:And also liked the dig at fast fashion with Ava reselling her Zara like it’s designer wear. 

Actually, the characters on the show wear plenty of Zara. You can look up what different characters wore on those websites like Worn On TV. 

[BAForever]

1 hour ago, cloeymoon said:

Actually, the characters on the show wear plenty of Zara. You can look up what different characters wore on those websites like Worn On TV. 

Barbara dresses like many teachers of her generation. Practical, but appropriate. Gregory and Jacob too. Melissa, tight and usually a jacket. Not what you see many teachers wearing. Ava, totally inappropriate for lunch, playground or arrival/dismissal duty, which she prob never does although every principal I've ever had does duty (at least occasionally). Janine is the outlier. I love her funky, colorful outfits. Her clothes match her personality. 

[callie lee 29]

6 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Since when did Janine become an expert on nutrition?  Shouldn't the cafeteria workers have been consulted before giving the kids the juice?

Definitely. And there's absolutely no way a teacher would have the ability to change the order anyway. Most government contracts have to be processed through purchasing/procurement and typically bid out. 

[mrsbagnet]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:37 PM, peridot said:

The little girl with braids who broke both toilets was so adorable!

I just want to know what she was doing in the bathroom to break two toilets.

On 10/20/2022 at 9:00 AM, JakeyJokes said:

I enjoyed last week’s a lot more, but still howled at the reveal of Ava’s secret luxury bathroom complete with bidet! And also liked the dig at fast fashion with Ava reselling her Zara like it’s designer wear. 

Yes, I loved that line about reselling Zara..

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, mrsbagnet said:

I just want to know what she was doing in the bathroom to break two toilets.

I assumed she was just the unlucky last user of every toilet. More like a strange curse than anything she was doing.

[JAYJAY1979]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:28 PM, Crashcourse said:

Well, it was nice to see the cafeteria workers again.  

In the beginning, I thought Ava was kind of funny, but now I find her despicable.  I can't stand that teacher's aide either.

Janine is stupid.  

I watch the show with the view that Janine is the antagonist of the show.

[DearEvette]

I see the clear antagonist of the show is the pubic education system.  Janine is an optimist and an idealist who believes she can help change it for the better but it is a bigger system that has ground down more people than her.  Most of what Janine does, she does from a place of how it will make the students' better or she is trying to build community with her co-workers.  I have read actual articles where the writer of the piece has complained the show is too nice, not cynical enough.  Not everything and everyone has to be dark.

Each character on some level is a product of the system they work under.  They aren't at odds with each other, even when nominally they are shown to be, but in the end, it is always the system that is the root of their issue, they are just struggling with each other over how to navigate around it.

[Welshman in Ca]

On 10/21/2022 at 8:09 AM, Ms Lark said:

She's also blackmailing the guy who was in charge of hiring her, so that's why she's still there. Bugs the hell out of me!

Except she's not blackmailing him.

[Neiman]

I kept waiting for Ashley to move into a main office position as Ava’s assistant.

[Racj82]

I think some people forget that finding ways to relate to people or inform someone is a continous thing in life. Everyone doesn't understand or relate the same way.

Ashley wasn't blatantly disrespectful or distracting. Her way of teaching just happens to be distracting. I'm sure it wouldn't be THIS bad but having two classes going in one room is bound to distract. As Melissa begins to relate to her, they may be able to have common ground. Melissa may be able to learn from her as well. We never saw that she wasn't teaching the kids. She is just very loud.

In regards to Janine and Barbara, just saying don't do this doesn't work for everyone. The why is important. There was nothing to suggest that THIS would be the consequence and things in the school system need to change and evolve just like anything else. Janine wasn't in the wrong for trying to make this change. No one could have seen THIS coming. Not even Barbara.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Racj82

[possibilities]

Ashley was ignoring what Melissa told her to do, which is in direct contradiction to the concept of being an aide. 

[BAForever]

3 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Ashley wasn't blatantly disrespectful or distracting. Her way of teaching just happens to be distracting. I'm sure it wouldn't be THIS bad but having two classes going in one room is bound to distract. As Melissa begins to relate to her, they may be able to have common ground. Melissa may be able to learn from her as well. We never saw that she wasn't teaching the kids. She is just very loud.

In the real world of multi-age teaching, both teachers would be facilitating lessons in the same subject area at the same time. Simplified, second graders might be working on double-digit addition, while 3rd grade might be practicing early multiplication skills. Ideally, the skills the older kids are working on are higher level but similar to younger. Takes a lot of planning to pull this off, but that's a goal. I get that Abbott Elem is a fictional school, but multi-age classes aren't. 

[needschocolate]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:49 PM, Phebemarie said:

I know last season there were a few moments that struck me as unrealistic (Janine climbing the ladder to fix the light, blowing up the fuse box, the lengthy lunch breaks), but I had a hard time with the number of students who needed to use the restroom after an additional 2 ounces of juice….enough to break all the toilets in the school?  When I saw the preview, I thought the toilet problem was caused by something else.  

I know it is just a tv show, and you have to ignore illogical things sometimes, but this episode was too far removed from reality.  Kids are not going to have to go to the bathroom multiple times all afternoon because of 2 extra ounces of healthier juice.  So they must have drank a lot of juice because it was so tasty - but where did the school get all that additional juice?  They would have ordered juice based on prior amounts of juice, so maybe this was supposed to be all the juice for the week, but then why would the cafeteria workers put out juice meant for another day.  And how come it takes weeks, even months for anything to change at the school, but they can get a different type of juice the next day.  They made it seem like the drinking fountain was now dispensing juice.  

And it makes no sense that all the toilets broke.  And who cleans Ava secret bathroom? While I can see how Kindergarten might be able to sick with the old juice, since they probably have a different lunch time/area, why weren't Melissa's kids using the bathroom excessively?  Why was it only Gregory's and Janine"s classes? 

[possibilities]

That, plus the bathrooms only had one toilet each, instead of a row of stalls.

[Racj82]

I feel like a lot of people are taking this too seriously. But, that's just me.

[cinsays]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Ashley was ignoring what Melissa told her to do, which is in direct contradiction to the concept of being an aide. 

yeah, she was totally disrespectful and loudly, knowingly keeping Melissa from being able to teach.  heck, tariq would be a much better teacher's aide.

[Aileen]

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I feel like a lot of people are taking this too seriously. But, that's just me.

This. Even a weaker episode of AE is better than most tv.

[Black Knight]

13 hours ago, needschocolate said:

They would have ordered juice based on prior amounts of juice, so maybe this was supposed to be all the juice for the week, but then why would the cafeteria workers put out juice meant for another day.

Since Janine irritated them by showing up to their meeting, maybe they decided to sabotage her efforts...

[Joimiaroxeu]

Kindergarteners need their own bathroom. Huh. Is the equipment smaller and/or lower to the ground?

Melissa is not one of those spicy Whites.

I've never heard of an elementary school having three floors. Especially with no elevators. Is that common?

Wonder who cleans Ava's secret luxury bathroom? I'm confident she doesn't do it herself and Mr. Johnson wouldn't go to the extra trouble.

[SoMuchTV]

1 minute ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Kindergarteners need their own bathroom. Huh. Is the equipment smaller and/or lower to the ground?

My kids were in early elementary school through the '90s, and as I recall, their K & 1st grade classrooms had their own single-person bathroom.   And yes, it was smaller and lower to the ground.  I mean, why bother to put a special bathroom in for the smallest students, then make it adult-size?  But I agree with the larger point that a lot of this bathroom stuff seems pretty unrealistic.

[Black Knight]

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Kindergarteners need their own bathroom. Huh. Is the equipment smaller and/or lower to the ground?

I’m no expert, but I figured it had to do with kindergartners not being able to hold it in as well as older children. Hence, proximity.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

That, plus the bathrooms only had one toilet each, instead of a row of stalls.

The first episode of the first season has Janine and Gregory simultaneously taking a student into a bathroom with multiple stalls. I commented at the time that it was strange that a male and female teacher were both in the same bathroom (their students were little, so it wouldn't have mattered which bathroom their respective teacher took them to.)

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Kindergarteners need their own bathroom. Huh. Is the equipment smaller and/or lower to the ground?

Yes. That's why it was weird that Mr  Johnson wanted to use it. It's also inside their classroom, as a kindergartner may be considered too young to be sent off to a hall bathroom without supervision.

Edited October 24, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[twoods]

I love this show but wish there were other storylines than the usual “Janine didn’t listen to anyone and then there was chaos and Barbara fixed it.” Or, what others said in the thread above (I posted and then read the rest of the replies). 

Edited October 24, 2022 by twoods

[luvmylabs]

The actress who plays Ava speaks so fast I need closed captioning to understand her.  Distracting!

[JakeyJokes]

14 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

My kids were in early elementary school through the '90s, and as I recall, their K & 1st grade classrooms had their own single-person bathroom.   And yes, it was smaller and lower to the ground.  I mean, why bother to put a special bathroom in for the smallest students, then make it adult-size?  But I agree with the larger point that a lot of this bathroom stuff seems pretty unrealistic.

I’m the same age as your kids and kindergarteners definitely had their own bathroom. There were good reasons for it, such as not wanting kids to get lost walking around the building by themselves, and that kids that age might still be prone to accidents. 
 

On 10/21/2022 at 3:53 PM, cloeymoon said:

Actually, the characters on the show wear plenty of Zara. You can look up what different characters wore on those websites like Worn On TV. 

I wasn’t disputing that Ava wears Zara at all. The joke was that she was reselling it like it was expensive. There is a good article in the media thread from last year about the wardrobe department and how they dress the cast. Gregory wears a lot of H&M.

[Court]

Kindersley still have  bathrooms in their classroom. It's due to supervision. Typically, so will first graders. 

I did keep wondering where the staff bathroom was. 

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, Court said:

I did keep wondering where the staff bathroom was. 

I wonder if they know about Ava's bathroom?  I'd love for Mr. Johnson to go in there and pee all over it, coupled with a bout of diarrhea! 🤣

[Ailianna]

On 10/23/2022 at 6:05 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I've never heard of an elementary school having three floors. Especially with no elevators. Is that common?

My elementary school was three floors. Different grades on different floors, and though there were three staircases, there was no elevator. I'm guessing many schools were built long enough ago that they are grandfathered in under the ADA.

I honestly can't remember for sure if the kindergarten had separate bathrooms, but I do remember Rochelle DeMontany stepping on my finger the first day. That probably says more about me than the bathrooms.  

[sugarbaker design]

Did anyone notice the writer of this particular episode is Ava Coleman?

[DearEvette]

17 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Did anyone notice the writer of this particular episode is Ava Coleman?

Yup. Saw that.  Even checked to see if Ava was named after her.  But it is completely coincidental.  I believe writer Ava didn't become part of the writer's room til late in S1 or S2.

[sugarbaker design]

13 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Yup. Saw that.  Even checked to see if Ava was named after her.  But it is completely coincidental.  I believe writer Ava didn't become part of the writer's room til late in S1 or S2.

It can't be coincidental! The character must've been named after her.

[Annber03]

This was actually addressed in this week's "Ask Matt" column:

Quote

What’s in a (Principal’s) Name?

Question: I did a double take when I noticed the writing credit for last week’s episode (“Juice”) of Abbott Elementary, credited to “Ava Coleman.” This is, of course, the name of the principal played by Janelle James. Is it a coincidence that Abbott Elementary has a staff writer with the exact same name as one of its characters, or did (series creator) Quinta Brunson name the character after the writer? I know she named the show Abbott Elementary after one of her teachers, Ms. Abbott. — Jake

Matt Roush: Strange but true. In an interview with the Awardist podcast, Brunson revealed that she met the real Ava, then a writer and story editor for Peacock’s fabulous Girls5Eva, before even making Abbott, and the name stuck when creating the hilarious character of Ava. When Coleman was available to join the writing staff for Season 2, Brunson hired her, which probably makes it interesting when they’re pitching stories for the over-the-top principal.

[DearEvette]

Oh that's interesting because I saw another snippet where the writer, Ava,  didn't think it was true.  Good to know.

ETA;  I found the Interview with Quinta re: what the writer Ava Coleman called 'namergate' on her Insta.  I posted in the media thread.  She does say it was coincidental in that one.

[HappyBerry]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:37 PM, peridot said:

I laughed so hard when Jacob tried to not say that his bike was stolen by a black guy.  Ava's reactions were hilarious.  Her purple outfit was really cute.

Few things on this show have made me laugh as hard as Ava going "Would you describe this person as someone who might have difficulty getting a loan?" and Jacob basically running away.

I feel like it's one of those times where you can really tell it's a largely Black writers room, where they lean into making fun of White Guilt rather than going the White Savior route. (I can definitely recognize when I'm being called out) But, even when making Jacob the butt of the joke also recognize the way he is a good teacher and how he can connect with the kids. For all the ridiculousness the show has been displaying lately, like all that turmoil over 2 oz of juice, it is still killing it in so many other ways.

[Rai]

I think we're supposed to hate Ashley, so it's working! That said, she really does connect well to the kids and if she just has the right guidance, she could be helpful and professional in the long run. That body-ody-ody thing she was doing with the skeleton was actually engaging the kids. I know Jacob is trying to come from a place of love when he encourages Melissa to be more engaged, but I think Melissa can understand the value of getting an aide under control on the basis of manipulation as well. (What? She's resourceful!) It'd be great to just fire Ashley if she could, but Ava won't let her. So she's gotta learn how to channel Ashley into a better place. That's growth too!

[paramitch]

My Dad was a teacher for 20 years, and I've also worked as a freelance writer on regular contract for a local ESD for nearly 2 years now, so I've been so excited for this show's success, and am really happy it's inspiring other people to go into education.

However, I'm really struggling with this show. It's charming and sweet, and it's lovely to see this setting (especially in a city outside of NYC or LA) and profession getting this attention on TV.

But I just don't think it's all that fabulous. It's okay.

My main issue -- the writing is so obvious and its formula feels so obvious and stale to me every single week:

1. Janine is faced with a dilemma at school
2. She is given advice, which she ignores
3. She responds with arrogance and a solution that is toxically positive
4. She is told in reasonable terms why this won't work
5. She doubles down with more arrogance and unwillingness to listen
6. Her co-workers are more patient and kind than I would be
7. Everything implodes
8. She apologizes and ostensibly learns from it, until the next situation where she will show the same inability to listen

I also can barely stand the moments Ava is onscreen -- I don't think she's funny, and her obvious corruption, stealing, incompetence, and cruelty really make me tense -- I just can't find her entertaining.

And I cannot stand Ashley for the same reasons. 

I'm currently hanging in there for the  supporting characters (I worship at the altar of Sheryl Lee Ralph across a zilllion series, especially "One Mississippi," and have loved Lisa Ann Walter since The Parent Trap remake), but I have to say that I just don't think this show is all that unique or special. It's cute. It's okay. I'm frustrated that the reviews make it sound like the second coming when the writing is this obvious and broadly done, however.

And I am utterly over the faux-documentary thing, especially the constant slide to a character's wry/dry look to the camera. The Office and Parks & Rec did something unique with it, but this just feels like blatant pandering. Even the inclusion of "acknowledging the camera crew" doesn't really add much because they're still present in plenty of situations where they simply wouldn't be (like when Melissa is teaching Janine to cook at her own home, etc.).

I don't mean to be the grinch here, I'm just frustrated. Enjoying! But frustrated.

Edited February 28, 2023 by paramitch