S01.E09: The Green Council

[paigow]

Larys will be the first ever Hand & Foot Of The Queen....

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

She has a shot at stopping this in its tracks. Any thoughts on why she didn't do it?

Yes. Kinslaying as one person mentioned above. But also is she 1000% team Rhynaera? I think she's leaving herself some options. She still doesn't  believe the realm will accept Rhynaera and even if she takes out the head of the Greens it doesn't mean the opposition is gone. Otto clearly convinced a lot of Houses. And if Rhynes just slaughters them how does that play out? Does Rhynaera reward her or use her as a scapegoat? My cousin went rogue, I am horrified, etc...In her heart I don't think she trusts Daemon and Rhynaera. 

She's a lot more complicated than Ned in my opinion.

[nilyank]

So did Rhaenyra and her brood just fly out the night of the Last Dinner? Because Viserys died that same night. But they were no where around the next morning.

[paigow]

Larys must be an ancestor of this guy...

[aghst]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Why do I think that plenty of people are going to regret Rhaenys's decision to not fire when she had the chance?  I guess this makes her the Ned Stark of the series.  By choosing the decent, honorable thing over the most pragmatic she just screwed over the entire realm.

HBO has dozens of episodes to make and air.  And presumably GRRM had many books to write and sell so the war was not going to be prevented.

She could have killed Amond for stealing her daughter's dragon, which should have gone to one of her grand daughters.

It's conceivable that Raynys will warn Raynera and Damon that the Greens coming for them but maybe want to remain neutral.

Yet she did agree to marry her granddaughters to Raynera's sons so future mother in law can't pretend to be Switzerland, can she?

Well she's an old woman so she can plead that her sciatica is acting up when it's time to go to war.

[jeansheridan]

5 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Because Viserys died that same night.

Did he? I know that's the impression and Rhyners was still there too. They didn't have their dragons but after the boys fought maybe they felt it was better to get out of dodge. It's not a long boat ride to Dragonstone. In GOT one character literally rows over in a small boat (the man Ser Daavos saves from Melissandra).

..

[Oscirus]

46 minutes ago, Dac22 said:

It's even better as one of the showrunners called it her 'heroic moment'.

The lesson is if you want to kill someone as a character, do it to a lot of innocent civilians rather than a named character standing against you.

So basically couldve ended the whole war but chose to make a cool entrance and peace out. Real bad ass

[aghst]

1 hour ago, The Kings Foot said:

That part with Alicent and Larys was just unnecessary and made no sense.

Wasn't it suppose to be transactional?

He told her there was a spy network, including Talya.  But someone left in it place, to feed disinformation, rather than break it up.

So he was offering to get rid of it for her or get rid of the someone keeping it in place?

But she had to do something for him ...

This isn't the first rodeo for these two.  She was already taking off her socks while they talked.  Way she was reaching down she could have been pulling off her underwear but it was just her socks and that's all Larys wanted.

[Constantinople]

Face it. Beesbury would have died from apoplexy contemplating the cost of repairing the dragonpit. So what happened was a mercy.

[Roccos Brother]

This episode was a letdown for me. A lot of what felt like filler moments to build up tension and then climaxing with an all-too-predictable dragon appearance for cheap dramatic effect that didn't amount to anything more than a stare-down. Rhaenys wanted to be queen at one point but she doesn't mind if innocent civilians get injured or killed from her performative stunt?

Aegon's coronation was much more impressive than Cersei's.

Was surprised to find out Mysaria had motives beyond self-preservation and enrichment - she just wanted to help the children! Her accent does sound very contrived, but I hope her storyline doesn't end here.

Larys and his shtick of being the weird sociopath with a foot fetish is becoming tired and grating.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Roccos Brother

[jeansheridan]

Olivia Cooke finally came through. Or maybe the writing was better. Her almost eye roll at Otto when he referenced her mother, her weary fatigue with Cole's zealotry, her fatigue with her son, her almost robotic display for Larys, like she had done it dozens of times.

But she did seem to genuinely mourn her husband. Her fear for Halaena was sincere. She came at Rhyners the right way. And yes, she did stare down an effing dragon. She knows what they can do. 

And she's damn right. Not killing is NOT a weakness! It takes smart, brave people to avoid killing and keep power. Otto isn't one of them. Otto made plenty of enemies by killing those two Lords and Lady. I don't see that sitting well. 

[jeansheridan]

12 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

59 minutes ago, Dac22 said:

It's even better as one of the showrunners called it her 'heroic moment'.

The lesson is if you want to kill someone as a character, do it to a lot of innocent civilians rather than a named character standing against you.

Expand  

So basically couldve ended the whole war but chose to make a cool entrance and peace out. Real bad ass

I think the creators just need to...not do PR. Both men are charisma sucks and have the most basic takes. I am sure they're great in RL and understand nuance but wow they are not articulate or even energetic. One of them appears to operating at 30% energy always. 

[BeckyThatcher]

It must be so stressful to find the right lady in waiting plus staff. No gossip, no secret lights in the window, - and  a constant supply of clean stockings, no holes or runs, tidy demure shoes, and  flawless pedicures. And some type of aftercare- bleach, pillow to scream into…

Each day A has to add 20 minutes to her foot care routine in case L hobbles over with information. 

 

[jeansheridan]

On a purely shallow note, I like Aemond's long silky wig. It looks totally unnatural but the ends have a razor edge when he walks. 

I see potential comedy gold if Aemond gets to make digs at Cole and Cole can't do squat.

Oh and kudos to that Lannister! He wisely got out of the way of the two Kingsguards having a pissing match. He seems innately funny.

Edited October 17, 2022 by jeansheridan

[ZeeEnnui]

I get that Alicent and LittleLimper had an uneasy understanding after he burnt down his family tree, but I didn't realize that her toes were part of their alliance. 

Maybe LittleLimper and Ser Cristen can form a circle jerk. If Cristen's balls weren't so blue all the time, he might have less of a body count. 

[yellowfred]

I feel like this episode had a lot of really good stuff, but I think it suffered a bit from the pace of the season, so far.  Like, I really loved a lot of the smaller scenes (Alicent trying to win over Rhaenys made me wish that those two had more scenes together), but then there was a bunch of stuff that felt a little thrown in without enough context.

Like, did they even say who the various lords were that were either bending the knee to Aegon or getting arrested?  There didn't seem to be that many of them there (contrasted with the scene in episode 1, where all the lords are swearing their allegiance to Rhaenyra as heir).  Were those just the ones that they figured would be on the fence?  Also, I know they needed to show Otto being very ruthless, but assuming that guy who tried to get away was at least moderately important, it seems like the smarter thing would be to hold him hostage so that his family will support Aegon.

I also didn't love the reveal that Alicent has not been in on the planning for the coup.  Also, like, if you're planning a coup in secret, and then it turns out last minute that it might not totally be a coup, maybe don't announce to the room "oh, good, let's go ahead with our secret plans we've been working on."  Especially not in front of at least three people who were not in on that plan. 

Also, didn't Rhaenyra just say that she was gonna return on dragonback as soon as she got her kids home?  Seems like she should have shown up at some point, or there should have been some effort made to keep her away.

Edited October 17, 2022 by yellowfred

[Dac22]

5 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

If Cristen's balls weren't so blue all the time, he might have less of a body count. 

Hey, two kills over 24-ish years is severely lacking in this setting.

He needs to step his game up to catch Larys, Daemon, and after her performance this episode, Rhaenys.  

[bunnyblue]

After the way Cole killed Lord Beesbury -simply for stating what the Greens were doing was wrong - I've come to the conclusion that this fucker is nothing more than a thug in a uniform. His behavior goes beyond how Rhaenyra treated him after their one-night-stand 16 years ago. Like Alicent, he hides behind the cloak of his own righteousness and has himself convinced he is the good one. And to threaten his lord commander? I can't wait for this fucker to die. 

Larys is a disgusting human being in all matters and I also can't wait for him to die. 

Otto too. To have already had a secret plan in place to usurp Rhaenyra and have her and her family killed; to threaten the lords and ladies to swear fealty to Aegon and have those who wouldn't do it killed; it's just all so infuriating. This episode really upset me.

And whatever benefit of the doubt I was still giving Alicent is gone. She knows what a sick fuck Aegon is and she still goes ahead with making him king. All her years of living as a broodmare and she's so close to seeing it all pay off? Yeah she ain't giving up this power now.

How anyone can look at Aegon & Aemond and say that Jace & Luke are somehow worse simply because they are bastards is beyond me. 

The only people who didn't make my blood boil this episode were Helaena, Erryk, Westerling, and Caswell. I was annoyed with Rhaenys for not roasting all the usurpers when she had them dead to rights. No episode of GOT/HotD has ever pissed me off as much as this one. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by bunnyblue

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, LanceM said:

As far as Mysaria is concerned until I see a body I am going to assume she is not dead.

I guess Rhaenys gave Alicent  her answer. I can only assume she didn’t dracarys them was because kinslaying is such a big taboo in Westeros.

Yep. You know the White Worm would always have a contingency plan set up in case of attempts made on her life. I'll bet Mysaria will find a use for Aegon's bastards since she couldn't take him off the chessboard.

I was on edge the whole episode until I saw Rhaenys slip into one of the entrances for the dragonpit.  I knew she wasn't leaving without her dragon.  I also wish she would have fried everyone on that dias; I know Helaena wasn't to blame for anything, but the Hightower blood damns her and her children. 

RIP to Lord Beesbury, Lord Caswell, and the two other House leaders. 

So Alicent indulges Larys' foot fetish? I guess that beats having sex with him...

So Baela is either escorting Vaemond's body back to Driftmark or at Dragonstone? I see why they tried to imprison Rhaenys at the Red Keep; Otto was going to have her granddaughters killed along with Daemon, Rhaenyra, and all their children!  Yeah, she should have burned the Greens on the way out.

[thuganomics85]

Don't you just hate it when you are getting coronated and your aunt (I think?  It's hard to tell with this family!) just has to bust through the chapel floor with her big ass dragon?!  Family can be so annoying at times!

So, poor Viserys hasn't even gotten cold and Otto unleashes his grand plan to usurp the throne with Aegon as king.  And while Alicent's little "misunderstanding" might have helped them save face, it certainly sounds like he and a good portion of the Green Council already had something planned for quite sometime, so what a bunch of lovely folks we have here!  Who doesn't want a king who when he isn't busy raping servants, is apparently getting front row seats to actual child fighting!  Fucking hell, Otto!

Granted, I don't see this working out for Aegon at all.  Not only will he have to deal with Rhaenyra/Daemon's likely retaliation, but it seems like almost everyone else doesn't like him.  Alicent tolerates him at best and that's the highlight!  Meanwhile, Aemond seems like he's always just one second away from trying to find a way to stage an "accident" for Aegon or maybe just say "Fuck it!" and murder him in cold blood.  Dude clearly doesn't like his older brother at all!  And the funny thing is, outside of Helaena, Aemond might be my favorite out of this particular lot, which just shows how scummy they are.

Today in plot development I wasn't predicting: apparently Larys has a thing for feet.  And not just any feet: Alicent's feet!  Which she provides in order to extract information from him.  Insert obvious "They couldn't get Quentin Tarantino for the role?" remark/joke here.  As usual though, whatever issues I might have with her a lot of times, I do love how much Alicent clearly can't stand his creepy ass.

Never would have predicted that the Lannisters would be to go to comic relief here, but I was dying over Tyland's "Ugh, why do we have to get up so early, dammit!" reaction, finding out that Viserys just died and being all "Well, shit!  In hindsight, that makes me look a bit callous..." about it.

I see Ser Harrold will be the inspiration for Barristan Selmy's "Fuck this shit and fuck all of you!" way of quitting.

As awesome as Rhaenys' exit was, seeing all the common folks running for their lives and thinking about the ones who probably died really highlights how much collateral damage happens because of this never-ending pissing contest between the rich and elite.

Finally, while he still probably isn't the worst person here technically, Cole can continue to fuck right off!

[jeansheridan]

6 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Never would have predicted that the Lannisters would be to go to comic relief here, but I was dying over Tyland's "Ugh, why do we have to get up so early, dammit!" reaction, finding out that Viserys just died and being all "Well, shit!  In hindsight, that makes me look a bit callous..." about it.

He is an innately funny actor. And another person they didn't bother to age in 16 years. But whatever. 

There are a lot of twins on this show! Are Halaena's kids twins too? And she's Queen now.

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Installing a new king seems to be quite an easy task. You gather an audience and just announce the new king, and just like that, you're the king.

The hoi polloi are so fickle.

[bunnyblue]

Oh, I have a question: are we supposed to know who the hooded figure was - the one who walked away from Mysaria's burning building? Otto? Arryk? Aemond?

I know it was all done for the drama, but it was so dumb to have Rhaenys get Meleys out of the dragon pit by having her break through the floor. Why not take her out the way she took her in? I'm assuming the entrance that Rhaenyra used in the very first scene of the show is the way in to the pit. Even if armed guards were posted at that entrance/exit, I'm sure Meleys could have Dracarysed their asses and gotten away. This way, Rhaenys killed a bunch of innocent people and didn't even kill the ones I wanted her to kill.

Helaena is too good for these asshole Hightowers. In her own little way, I feel she was showing her displeasure with Aegon being crowned when she wouldn't even look at him during his crowning. She just kept her head turned to the side. The things she has endured and the things she has seen in her dreams - she is the only Green I care for. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by bunnyblue

[Stardancer Supreme]

3 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Oh, I have a question: are we supposed to know who the hooded figure was - the one who walked away from Mysaria's burning building? Otto? Arryk? Aemond?

Just one of Larys' tongueless minions.

[Constantinople]

So who will be Gendry to Rhaenys's Arya in the next episode?

[Scaeva]

So Rhaenys decided to crash the king's coronation to do what exactly? Kill a whole lot of innocent bystanders in attendance, and then fly off without killing any of the people whose deaths might actually prevent a civil war? If she wasn't going to kill Aegon, why not just leave without a whole lot of pointless death?

Eve Best is fantastic but that was quite possibly the stupidest action we've seen by a character in the Westeros TV universe. At least Ned didn't (intentionally) kill a bunch of innocent people when he did a Big Dumb.

I hope they are going somewhere with that and Rhaenys wants a war to weaken both sides for her own potential gain, because otherwise her actions are monstrously ruthless while falling well short of being ruthless enough to accomplish any sort of practical gain.

Great episode otherwise, but I thought whatever epicness was intended by the dragon entrance was undercut by Rhaenys actions seeming to be bereft of any forethought or purpose.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Scaeva
Typos galore

[MBayGal]

As soon as Rheanys (sp?) broke away from the crowd and headed down that dark corridor, I knew she was headed for the dragon pit and would arrive at the coronation. But that was much more dramatic than I expected!!  Amazing how she managed to get into her dragonriding outfit so quickly! 

When Alicent started removing her slippers and stockings, I thought how odd to do that in front of a man. But as it played out, it seems that is their little ritual by which she "pays" him for his sneaky services. You could see she was turned away so as not to watch him, but of course she was aware of his reaction. 

[Scaeva]

1 hour ago, yellowfred said:

Like, did they even say who the various lords were that were either bending the knee to Aegon or getting arrested?  There didn't seem to be that many of them there (contrasted with the scene in episode 1, where all the lords are swearing their allegiance to Rhaenyra as heir).  Were those just the ones that they figured would be on the fence?  Also, I know they needed to show Otto being very ruthless, but assuming that guy who tried to get away was at least moderately important, it seems like the smarter thing would be to hold him hostage so that his family will support Aegon.

I think there not being many lords present to pledge obedience to Aegon, at least in comparison to the  previous oaths sworn to Rhaenyra, makes a fair amount of sense. 

Presumably with Rhaenyra lords  from all over Westeros had been summoned ahead of time to make their way to King's Landing and pledge their obedience, but with the coronation of Aegon it's all being rushed following the king's death. They've only got the lords who happened to be present at the time to swear obedience (or murder, apparently) while the majority are still going to be far from King's Landing ruling their fiefdoms from their own keeps.

[MBayGal]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

There was no way in hell that this wasn’t their first go at this. Fuck her forever for being on her high horse about Rhaenyra’s extracurricular activities. 

But Rhae has been having fun in the sack with men she chose.  Alicent is forced to debase herself to repay Larys for his services; she did not appear to being getting any pleasure from this. 

[Oscirus]

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Installing a new king seems to be quite an easy task. You gather an audience and just announce the new king, and just like that, you're the king.

I think its more a case of the common people not giving a shit. One silver haired freak married to their relative is the same as the next one. 

[ursula]

46 minutes ago, Scaeva said:

So Rhaenys decided to crash the king's coronation to do what exactly? Kill a whole lot of innocent bystanders in attendance, and then fly off without killing any of the people whose deaths might actually prevent a civil war? If she wasn't going to kill Aegon, why not just leave without whole lot of pointless death?

Eve Best is fantastic but that was quite possibly the stupidest action we've seen by a character in the Westeros TV universe. At least Ned didn't (intentionally) kill a bunch of innocent people when he did a Big Dumb.

I hope they are going somewhere with that and Rhaenys wants a war to weaken to both sides for own potential gain, because otherwise her actions are monstrously ruthless while falling well short being ruthless enough to accomplish any sort of practical gain.

Great episode otherwise, but I thought whatever epicness was intended by the dragon entrance was undercut by Rhaenys actions seeming to be bereft of any forethought or purpose.

Well said. That was GOT seasons 8 level of bad writing/nonsensical plot. 

[PurpleTentacle]

Now Cristen is getting away with murdering a lord? What are these writers smoking?

[PurpleTentacle]

Alicent tried really hard to misunderstand what Viserys said, didn't she? At no point did he say "I want Aegon to be king".

[Dac22]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Now Cristen is getting away with murdering a lord? 

The setting has always favored those with more power.

Not only does Criston have the Queen backing him, but the majority of the other lords there were already plotting for this moment and won't mind that a probable headache was removed from the situation. 

So I don't think this is as problematic as it was with Joffrey. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Dac22

[PurpleTentacle]

5 minutes ago, Dac22 said:

Not only does Criston have the Queen backing him, but the majority of the other lords there were already plotting for this moment and won't mind that a probable headache was removed from the situation. 

But there was also the commander of the kings guard there. How he didn't immediatly chop his head off can only be described with "massive plot armor".

These politics just aren't believeable to me anymore. In GoT Robert's girlfriend supposedly getting kidnapped led to a large scale rebellion that ended the Targaryen dynasty and then Ned getting killed led to the north rebelling and all out war in the seven kingdoms.

Now lords are getting murdered and imprisond left and right and nothing? Come on. I guess there is still room for fallout in the next episodes, but I see no indication of any of that happening.

[DigitalCount]

It's 4AM in my neck of the woods, so I'll keep it short for now: I wasn't a fan of Rhaenys leaving the entire Green group alive. I feel like it was out of character for her to essentially rattle her sabre and then leave. That soured the episode for me, which was already slower than most. Did appreciate the peek into Alicent's perspective though. Looking forward to the reverse next week, but not to the prospect of 2 years for season 2.

[Scaeva]

43 minutes ago, ursula said:

Well said. That was GOT seasons 8 level of bad writing/nonsensical plot. 

Thanks, though we seem to be in the Hot Take camp. lol

If social media impressions elsewhere are anything to go by, most viewers seemed to have loved that scene. I'm jealous.

A dragon crashing through a floor to smash some Westerosi folks into a fine paste should be content I'd like, but I didn't understand the character motivations behind it and *maybe* thought it was an uncharacteristicly foolish act from a character who normally comes across as the brightest in the room.

I didn't watch the episode live & so I caugtht the behind the scenes bits, and also found that confusing, as the showrunners said they wanted to give Rhaenys a heroic exit. I'm sorry, what?! She killed a lot of innocent spectators, but spared the people whose deaths might actually sort out the mess one way or another. 

I'm hoping there is a reason the dragon couldn't have just exited through the door, and had to smash through the floor instead, and I'm the dumb one for missing it. Or that Rhaeyns is now steepling her fingers & cackling somewhere at the chaos she hopes to exploit, because otherwise I'd rank it as one of the weaker scenes of the GoT universe, spectacle aside.

[Dac22]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

But there was also the commander of the kings guard there. How he didn't immediatly chop his head off can only be described with "massive plot armor".

The thing is Westerling has no real power because there is no king.

Until someone was crowned, Alicent was the highest ranking member of the royal family who Westerling serves. As appalled as he may have been, he can't really act independently without it being treason.  

1 hour ago, Scaeva said:

If social media impressions elsewhere are anything to go by, most viewers seemed to have loved that scene. 

Because it made Rhaenys look cool and that's all that matters. The actual logic behind it is secondary.

I like Eve Best, and she's great in the role, but her saying that scene showed why Rhaenys would make the best ruler and how merciful she is makes me laugh given Rhaenys massacred a ton of innocent people.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Dac22

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Why do I think that plenty of people are going to regret Rhaenys's decision to not fire when she had the chance?  I guess this makes her the Ned Stark of the series.  By choosing the decent, honorable thing over the most pragmatic she just screwed over the entire realm.

Sad but true. Whatever other qualities Rhaenys had to be fit to a ruler, she couldn't act ruthlessly when it was necessary. In this she was just as Viserys.

Unlike Rhaenys said to Alicent, a king is *not* free to act, on the contrary he must do what is necessary. The other part of being a king is of course to understand what is necessary in each case: justice/revenge or mercy? 

In general, the king presents justice and the queen consort mercy. A king can show mercy at his queen consort's request if he chooses when he thinks it to makes sense without seeming to be a weak and thus encourage others to rebellion. The problem of a ruling queen is that she must do *both* king and king consort's job.    

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Dac22 said:

Because it made Rhaenys look cool and that's all that matters. The actual logic behind it is secondary.

Fans are willing to overlook a lot if they like the character.  Daemon has gone all in on police brutality, murdered his wife, beat an innocent messenger, murdered that poor Velaryon servant, and is probably still the most loved character in the show.  If he had done this there would be even more love for his awesomeness.  Of course, if he had done this then Team Green would be Team Extra Crispy.

If Rhaenyra, a more polarizing character (in my opinion) had done this?  Well, let's just say there would likely be more talk about how she murdered a bunch of innocents.

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

These politics just aren't believeable to me anymore. In GoT Robert's girlfriend supposedly getting kidnapped led to a large scale rebellion that ended the Targaryen dynasty and then Ned getting killed led to the north rebelling and all out war in the seven kingdoms.

Now lords are getting murdered and imprisond left and right and nothing? Come on. I guess there is still room for fallout in the next episodes, but I see no indication of any of that happening.

Most of the lords didn't give a damn about Lyanna running off.  They rebelled because Aerys had been going nuts for years and because he killed the important lords.  If the Lord Paramount of the North could be executed on a whim then no one was safe, and even then large chunks of the realm still rallied behind the Targs.  A few minor lords getting killed and locked up isn't going to be enough, especially since dragons are still in play.

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Not killing is NOT a weakness! It takes smart, brave people to avoid killing and keep power.

In that kind of society you have to kill or to be killed.

1 minute ago, cambridgeguy said:

Fans are willing to overlook a lot if they like the character.  Daemon has gone all in on police brutality, murdered his wife, beat an innocent messenger, murdered that poor Velaryon servant, and is probably still the most loved character in the show.  If he had done this there would be even more love for his awesomeness.  Of course, if he had done this then Team Green would be Team Extra Crispy.

If Rhaenyra, a more polarizing character (in my opinion) had done this?  Well, let's just say there would likely be more talk about how she murdered a bunch of innocents.

I agree.

Plus, there are different standards for women and men also about killing.

[Scaeva]

12 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

In that kind of society you have to kill or to be killed.

I agree.

Plus, there are different standards for women and men also about killing.

The issue with Rhaenys isn't so much that she killed innocent people. You don't expect moral behavior from most characters in these shows, particularly Targaryens, and awful aristocrats doing awful things to each other is a big part of the drama that keeps people tuning in. It's more that she killed a bunch of innocent people who are inconsequential to the succession crisis, only to inexplicably spare the not-so-innocent people who actually do matter.

Daemon has done far worse but all his wicked acts at least seemed like they were carried out with the intent to provide him, if not the kingdom or his immediate family, some benefit. You understand why he did the thing even if you think he's awful for doing the thing.

Rhaenys' actions in contrast seem nonsensical, at least on the surface. Assuming she's not pulling a Littlefinger and hoping to grab the crown after every other head fit to wear it has been lopped off, not only did the raid on the coronation kill a bunch of people for no tangible gain, sparing the Green king & council guarantees civil war and puts her own house in peril.  

Daemon acted with a similar degree of foolishness perhaps with his mad charge at the crab king's men, but he thought he'd lost and was trying to fall on his sword in dramatic fashion. There was method to the character's madness and the motivation behind it was clear.

Daemon's impulsivity is also entirely in character, while I'm not certain Rhaenys' crashing the coronation only to kill smallfolk, but none of the royals or nobles who are soon to be her enemies, was. Until the end of this episode she had always been presented as one of the more wise characters.

Tl;dr: Different reactions for those two characters' evil acts isn't necessarily a double standard. Daemon's actions seem in character & have purpose behind them, Rhaeyns' raid on the coronation lacked both.

[Haleth]

There is no one on this show that hasn't done awful things, except maybe Haelena.

Rhaenys arriving on her dragon (where did she get the armor?) was a badass moment for sure.  Sucks for the small folk that had been herded into the sept and trampled by a dragon though.

Ugh, I was so hoping Criston would be killed in the fight.

The foot thing.  No.  Just... yuck.

So does Graham MacTavish's character still live?  He was allowed to just walk away?

[Roseanna]

40 minutes ago, Scaeva said:

The issue with Rhaenys isn't so much that she killed innocent people. You don't expect moral behavior from most characters in these shows, particularly Targaryens, and awful aristocrats doing awful things to each other is a big part of the drama that keeps people tuning in. It's more that she killed a bunch of innocent people who are inconsequential to the succession crisis, only to inexplicably spare the not-so-innocent people who actually do matter.

Daemon has done far worse but all his wicked acts at least seemed like they were carried out with the intent to provide him, if not the kingdom or his immediate family, some benefit. You understand why he did the thing even if you think he's awful for doing the thing.

Rhaenys' actions in contrast seem nonsensical, at least on the surface. Assuming she's not pulling a Littlefinger and hoping to grab the crown after every other head fit to wear it has been lopped off, not only did the raid on the coronation kill a bunch of people for no tangible gain, sparing the Green king & council guarantees civil war and puts her own house in peril.  

Daemon acted with a similar degree of foolishness perhaps with his mad charge at the crab king's men, but he thought he'd lost and was trying to fall on his sword in dramatic fashion. There was method to the character's madness and the motivation behind it was clear.

Daemon's impulsivity is also entirely in character, while I'm not certain Rhaenys' crashing the coronation only to kill smallfolk, but none of the royals or nobles who are soon to be her enemies, was. Until the end of this episode she had always been presented as one of the more wise characters.

Tl;dr: Different reactions for those two characters' evil acts isn't necessarily a double standard. Daemon's actions seem in character & have purpose behind them, Rhaeyns' raid on the coronation lacked both.

Well, maybe Rhaenyns wanted to give a show of strenght which would make Alicent to hesitate and ponder of surrender? After all, she lacks the killer instict - as yet.

More likely, the writers like dragons and thought Rhaenyns' raid was a good ide but couldn't let Rhaenys to kill Alicent's sons, for then there would be no story.

[WearyTraveler]

Sooo.... Who do you all think had the biggest orgasm? Larys contemplating Alicent's feet or Otto watching his grandson being crowned? 

(I'm no good at capturing images from TV shows. Perhaps someone with those skills can put those two moments side by side, so we can compare and contrast?)

[The Kings Foot]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

Wasn't it suppose to be transactional?

He told her there was a spy network, including Talya.  But someone left in it place, to feed disinformation, rather than break it up.

So he was offering to get rid of it for her or get rid of the someone keeping it in place?

But she had to do something for him ...

This isn't the first rodeo for these two.  She was already taking off her socks while they talked.  Way she was reaching down she could have been pulling off her underwear but it was just her socks and that's all Larys wanted.

My question is how on earth do this transactions even start ? And would Alicent agree to this ?

Which leads to the next question. What exactly has Larys been doing for Alicent ?  Are there more bodies with Alicent's name attached ?

9 hours ago, snickers said:

I don’t get why that one lord didn’t just send a raven? But Otto probably would have intercepted it anyway-too bad all of them got killed 

Ravens in the Red keep would be controlled by the Grand Maester. Who is part of of this palace coup.  He's the black guy in the grey robe. 

6 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

How anyone can look at Aegon & Aemond and say that Jace & Luke are somehow worse simply because they are bastards is beyond me. 

All of Westeros know bastards  carry the sin of their conception with them. 

6 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

Oh, I have a question: are we supposed to know who the hooded figure was 

One of Larys  tongueless minions.  I guess arson is their specialty. 

5 hours ago, Scaeva said:

So Rhaenys decided to crash the king's coronation to do what exactly? Kill a whole lot of innocent bystanders in attendance, and then fly off without killing any of the people whose deaths might actually prevent a civil war? If she wasn't going to kill Aegon, why not just leave without a whole lot of pointless death?

I think she was going to kill them but changed her mind when Alicent stood in front of Aegon. 

[cambridgeguy]

So for everyone who hates so many characters sharing such similar names, no comments about twins Arryk and Erryk? 

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Installing a new king seems to be quite an easy task. You gather an audience and just announce the new king, and just like that, you're the king.

Not quite. If one takes a crown without being the generally accepted heir, one must have strong supporters and as we saw, most lord were either willing or realized what would happen to them, if they weren't.

But it wouldn't have happened if Rhaenyra hadn't acted so foolishly but been present when her father died and with her own supporters acted decively as Otto did.

[Enigma X]

I really do think the shot of Rhaenys on top of Meleys looked awesome, but agree that her disregard for the regular folk was a bad look. Still love Rhaenys though. 

I also think that the writing for this show is horrendous, but I also don't think it is merely the show writers alone fault. I like certain characters but some things are just contradictory and all over the place.

[Lady Whistleup]

7 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

How anyone can look at Aegon & Aemond and say that Jace & Luke are somehow worse simply because they are bastards is beyond me. 

That's Westerosi logic though. There's a premium on bloodlines. So even though Aegon is a drunken, rapist wastrel, he's a "pure" Targaryen. It's actually a lot like the ancient Egyptian pharaoh's who would marry their sisters. Their spawn were sickly and inbred, but it didn't matter, it was about "pure" bloodlines.