S05.E01: Double Honeymoon and Seeing Double

[Pallas]

Or, Travels With My Aunt. While the four newlyweds honeymoon together, three  generations of Connors head off to a waterpark.

[Annber03]

"If you love me, you'll take that lamp and hit me in the head with it."

"Okay, but who's going to hit me with the lamp?"

LOL, Ben. 

So, on the one hand, Darlene mocking Jackie's relationship history is kind of funny, 'cause, um, Darlene? Look in the mirror. But on the other hand, Jackie feeling the need to compete with Darlene and get all overly showy with her relationship....yeah, I can't blame Darlene for being annoyed about that. But at least they did both acknowledge that and realize how ridiculous they were being in the end, so hey. 

Aw, poor Mark :(. Obviously drinking was a bad idea, especially given the family history and all (I did laugh at Dan's "He's got a bright future! And a liver we're all gonna need a piece of!" comment, though :p), but the family's response to this was true to form and consistent - shades of Roseanne and Dan with Becky when she tried drinking in the original series. And I did like Harris and Mark connecting as they did, and how Harris was realistic in her advice to Mark. They had some good scenes together this episode, I'd be all for seeing more of this side of their relationship explored. 

It also struck me funny to hear Mark referring to Harris as his big/older sister, considering he's taller than her now (and Darlene, too, for that matter) :p. 

[ams1001]

Geez, these people can't even have their own honeymoons...🙄 They don't spend enough time together?

Startin' out the new season with nuthin' but cruel jokes at the expense of Jackie. Nice. (Like Darlene's one to talk.)

Wow, Mark's voice really changed.

Gee, Darlene, if you don't like Jackie rubbing it in your face that they're 'more in love' maybe you shouldn't have gone on and on about how you thought she'd never get married...

Harris thought to bring margarita mix but not tequila?

Uh, Dan, just because you leave before they find the damage doesn't mean they won't charge you for it...

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

It also struck me funny to hear Mark referring to Harris as his big/older sister, considering he's taller than her now (and Darlene, too, for that matter) :p. 

Well, to be fair, everyone's taller than Darlene.

[Arcadiasw]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see Katey Segal in the opening credits. 🤔 Strange not seeing Michael Fishman in the credits either. 

[Irate Panda]

Awful on so many levels, Darlene can’t just make her honeymoon miserable she has to be cruel to Jackie to start things off and why does Dan think leaving halfway through will stop them from charging him? Did he give them a fraudulent name and credit card?

[UYI]

Oh thank God, they FINALLY updated the opening credits!

Aside from a few awkward jokes here and there, I actually liked this episode a lot, which surprised me somewhat?

(After the steady decline in quality in the last year or so, any good episode is a pleasant surprise at this point; even with a catastrophe-free season finale last season, my expectations were still basically on the floor.) 

I appreciated seeing Harris and Mark bond together; that was the highlight of the episode, along with Jackie standing up to Darlene's jokes actually getting to have a honeymoon. 

[ESS]

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Unless I missed it, I didn't see Katey Segal in the opening credits.

You didn't miss anything because she's not in them as Katey's still on reoccurring status at this time  😢

Edited September 22, 2022 by ESS

[Bastet]

It was nice to finally get another look at the Harris and Mark relationship.  "Your kids went all Hunter S. Thompson in the hotel room" from Becky was great, as was that she, an alcoholic, was the only one to overreact.  I love that everyone else's attitude towards him getting drunk was pragmatic, shades of the great episode from the original series when Becky and Dana got drunk, including the tag of torturing the hung-over teen with noise.

But having Dan act like if they left he wouldn't get charged for the damages is ridiculous on general principle, and especially because the revival season of the original series had an episode in which needing a credit card on which a sufficient hold for potential charges can be placed is a prerequisite for securing a hotel room was a plot point.

A double honeymoon is even more stupid than a double wedding, but Darlene's "I'm going to be positive; it feels wrong, makes me kind of sweaty, but I'm gonna do it" was great.

Trying to prove which couple can be more disgustingly schmoopy is so juvenile, especially categorizing it as being an indication of how much a couple loves each other.  But, again, it led to some good moments of humor, like when Darlene and Ben each wanted to be knocked out with the lamp, and Darlene with a pillow tied around her head (that was a hilarious image).  But like she said, good gods, have quiet sex in the bathroom or go outside!  Having noisy sex in an open room is ridiculous in college, but you can at least claim being young, stupid, and drunk.

Jackie telling Darlene how the jokes went too far and caused her to act out as a result was nice, though.

[toodywoody]

I truly felt bad for Jackie and glad she said something. 

How are they going to explain away DJ not being there? Wife stationed overseas? 

While I love the family just tearing each other apart, I want to see them all happy. They all love each other, but it is nice to see the adults finally getting a happy ending.

I read that this is the last season. Is that correct?

[Arcadiasw]

3 hours ago, ESS said:

You didn't miss anything because she's not in them as Katey's still on reoccurring status at this time  😢

Was that the actress choice so she has more time for other acting jobs?  If not, it's silly not having someone who is the wife of the main character not in the opening credits.

[nokat]

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It also struck me funny to hear Mark referring to Harris as his big/older sister, considering he's taller than her now (and Darlene, too, for that matter) :p. 

Mark is so tall! I did like the bonding with Mark and Harris, and although Darlene was angry, she did see the positive in that Harris is supportive of Mark, and Mark is now unlikely to drink again. We see Darlene's worries as we always see Dan with a beer, and of course Becky in recovery.

It's funny to think of Mark (and Harris) coming out of tiny Darlene and their short father. His heartbreak is something I think we all go through at that age.

[EtheltoTillie]

11 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Unless I missed it, I didn't see Katey Segal in the opening credits. 🤔 Strange not seeing Michael Fishman in the credits either. 

The whole new credits sequence is blink and you miss it.  I wonder if they will keep it that short. I was disconcerted at being unable to keep track of the actors. 
 

ETA. I really did blink and miss it. I had to rewind and watch when I realized you all were talking about it. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[jewel21]

While I like that they made new credits, not having Michael Fishman in them just feels all kind of levels of wrong. I know he wasn`t a huge character, but he was there from day one, and didn`t deserve to be written off the show. 

Now, as for this episode, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was actually funny and I enjoyed seeing Mark and Harris bonding. I would love to see more of that going forward. And while having Jackie and Darlene on a double honeymoon was contrived, I found it quite amusing. 

I`m looking forward to next week.

[ESS]

4 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Was that the actress choice so she has more time for other acting jobs?  If not, it's silly not having someone who is the wife of the main character not in the opening credits.

From my understanding they asked Katey about that last season and she said she's not sure she wants to be a main cast member and in the opening so what I gathered is she's not exactly saying yes, but not exactly saying no, but on the other hand the producers talked about it again before the credits were updated and mentioned they'd have to put her in them, so I don't know at this point it's conflicting and confusing information in my opinion right now.

Here's what was said back in October of last year:

“We really haven’t changed or altered those in any way [since Season 1],” executive producer Bruce Helford acknowledged during an October 2021 interview with TVLine, shortly after Dan married Louise. “Honestly, I imagine if we did alter them, we would be including [Katey Sagal].” But alas, Sagal is still not a series regular.

So yeah I think they could have put her in them IF they had wanted too...somehow and I get Katey wanting to do other projects, but it's done before where you can be in the opening of a show, but do other things as well that wouldn't stop her.  

5 hours ago, toodywoody said:

I read that this is the last season. Is that correct?

I've heard nothing about that so I'm most likely just a rumor at this point because from what I understanding the ratings are still good and it's still ABC's top show.

Edited September 22, 2022 by ESS

[Egg McMuffin]

If you go all the way back to the first two seasons of “Roseanne”, Crystal appeared in the opening credits, even though Natalie West was only recurring and was not credited in the intro (she was credited in the intro in seasons 3 and 4). But that was pretty unusual.

My guess is that Katey Sagal is happy with the deal she has - she gets to appear in a limited number of episodes and has free time to do other things. She already did 11 seasons on a four-camera sitcom.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Egg McMuffin

[ESS]

10 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

My guess is that Katey Sagal is happy with the deal she has - she gets to appear in a limited number of episodes and has free time to do other things. She already did 11 seasons on a four-camera sitcom.

That could be yes, but I've seen tons of people practically begging for her to be in them and also want her upped to a main cast member so.. me included, it's her choice, but I was just saying it's been done before where it wouldn't hurt her to be in the opening and a cast member that's all. If she's happy then...we'll just have accept it. 🤷‍♀️

Edited September 22, 2022 by ESS

[EtheltoTillie]

The actor who plays Mark has developed a strong resemblance to Laurie Metcalf, oddly enough. 

[ESS]

17 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

My guess is that Katey Sagal is happy with the deal she has - she gets to appear in a limited number of episodes and has free time to do other things. She already did 11 seasons on a four-camera sitcom.

I just find it a bit conflicting and confusing because at first the producers mentioned they asked Katey and she said she wasn't sure she wanted to be in the opening much less a main cast member, but then last year they mentioned they'd have to put her in them IF they had to update?? 🤷‍♀️ That's the parts I'm having trouble with...which one is it? 

[HerkyJerky]

Is it my imagination or has Harris (Emma Kenney) gained a lot of weight since last season?

[Aileen]

I liked this one since, for once, it wasn't depressing. It was also nice to see an updated credit sequence.

[Snow Apple]

Although I'm glad Jackie unleashed her feelings on Darlene regarding the "jokes," I thought it was gross of her "rocking the bed" to show off to her niece.

The rest of the family went to a waterpark and didn't take Mary? Unless I just didn't see her.

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The actor who plays Mark has developed a strong resemblance to Laurie Metcalf, oddly enough. 

I thought the same thing for the past few seasons.

18 minutes ago, HerkyJerky said:

Is it my imagination or has Harris (Emma Kenney) gained a lot of weight since last season?

I was wondering the same thing but thought maybe it was because she was wearing a sleeveless top. As long as she's healthy.

[HerkyJerky]

9 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

As long as she's healthy

AGREED!

[nokat]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The actor who plays Mark has developed a strong resemblance to Laurie Metcalf, oddly enough. 

That could be a messed up story line. Darlene raising Mark as her own but he is Jackie's son. Apparently one son has already disappeared.

[greekmom]

Guess there was no Fred.  Ever.

At least they changed the beginning.

I thought Becky was going to live with Darlene. When did the plan change that she might have possibly lived with Harris?

The rest of the episode was cringe at best. Going on a honeymoon with your Aunt and her husband and hearing the bed creak. *sheesh*

[UYI]

7 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Guess there was no Fred.  Ever.

Did they actually have a honeymoon, though? They got married, but it certainly wasn't for love, at least not on her part, so Neville is a step up in that regard. 

[ams1001]

10 hours ago, toodywoody said:

While I love the family just tearing each other apart, I want to see them all happy. They all love each other, but it is nice to see the adults finally getting a happy ending.

It's funny when it's clearly a joke. This version it always seems much more mean-spirited than in the old show.

9 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Was that the actress choice so she has more time for other acting jobs?  If not, it's silly not having someone who is the wife of the main character not in the opening credits.

Yeah, why have them get married if she's hardly going to be around?

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The actor who plays Mark has developed a strong resemblance to Laurie Metcalf, oddly enough. 

Now that you mention it... I do have a friend who is five feet tall, her husband is around 5'7" and I'm not sure how tall he is but their older son (who just turned 19) is taller than both of them. But genetics is weird and kids often look like grandparents or other relatives; Aunt Jackie is tallish (the internet says LM is 5'7" which is a little taller than average for a woman) and naturally kinda skinny, and Dan is also over six feet, so it's not unrealistic that Mark could also be tall and skinny.

2 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

Is it my imagination or has Harris (Emma Kenney) gained a lot of weight since last season?

I don't know; I just thought her outfit wasn't very flattering.

Edited September 22, 2022 by ams1001

[Jillybean]

7 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The whole new credits sequence is blink and you miss it.  I wonder if they will keep it that short. I was disconcerted at being unable to keep track of the actors. 
 

ETA. I really did blink and miss it. I had to rewind and watch when I realized you all were talking about it. 

I was just thrilled that we no longer have to witness Dan fellating a hot dog.

So the Roseanne characters that The Conners pretend never existed are: Fred, Jerry, Andy...who else?

[Winston Wolfe]

10 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

Is it my imagination or has Harris (Emma Kenney) gained a lot of weight since last season?

I noticed it too. Emma Kenney has always been a bit "plush," but the added pounds are noticeable - plus, she bears more than a passing resemblance to Roseanne now. At least one female cast member should, ideally.

8 hours ago, ams1001 said:

18 hours ago, toodywoody said:

While I love the family just tearing each other apart, I want to see them all happy. They all love each other, but it is nice to see the adults finally getting a happy ending.

It's funny when it's clearly a joke. This version it always seems much more mean-spirited than in the old show.

Yeah - and it stopped being funny a while ago. Some of Darlene's and Ben's comments to Jackie were downright hurtful; Jackie seemed to play along just to soften the impact. Also, it wasn't like Neville was that supportive of Jackie either. In the original series, Darlene and Becky had some semblance of respect for their Aunt.  Ironically, in her prime Jackie was far and away the most attractive of the clan.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Winston Wolfe

[rmontro]

36 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I was just thrilled that we no longer have to witness Dan fellating a hot dog.

I was just going to post that I'm glad they changed the opener, because I was tired of getting grossed out by Dan throating that sausage.

Nice to see Harris and Mark bonding.  Funny how the ex-drinker Becky was so miffed that Mark wasn't punished more - true to life though.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

I noticed it too. Emma Kenney has always been a bit "plush," but the added pounds are noticeable - plus, she bears more than a passing resemblance to Roseanne now. At least one female member should, ideally.

I don't really want to comment on the weight.  But when this show first started, I thought Emma looked a lot like Darlene, but now that she's a couple of years older, I don't see that anymore.  Maybe it is a resemblance to Roseanne we are seeing. 

[marceline]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I was just thrilled that we no longer have to witness Dan fellating a hot dog.

So the Roseanne characters that The Conners pretend never existed are: Fred, Jerry, Andy...who else?

Acting like Jackie is just some old maid who has never known love is just part of the destruction of the character and I hate it.

5 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

Is it my imagination or has Harris (Emma Kenney) gained a lot of weight since last season?

I thought the same thing. Perhaps the actress is pregnant because the ensemble she was wearing was weird and ugly.

Edited September 22, 2022 by marceline

[nokat]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I was just thrilled that we no longer have to witness Dan fellating a hot dog.

I think it was sausage but yeah, that was so disgusting. Extra points for using fellating.

[MrsEVH]

5 hours ago, nokat said:

 Apparently one son has already disappeared.

Two sons, Andrew and Jerry. I don't think either were mentioned when the show first started in 2018. 

[Bastet]

30 minutes ago, MrsEVH said:

Two sons, Andrew and Jerry. I don't think either were mentioned when the show first started in 2018. 

Jerry was mentioned in the first episode of the revival season of Roseanne, but has never been mentioned in The Conners, no.

3 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Some of Darlene's and Ben's comments to Jackie were downright hurtful

Yeah, it started out as typical teasing, but then Darlene kept going and it crossed the line, and Ben doesn't have the right yet to join it at all (which Jackie pointed out when she said they've only been related for a couple of days, or however she phrased it).

Dan and the sausage never bothered me, so while I noticed the different opening credits in this episode, I don't care one way or the other.

[Yogisbooboo64]

Awww, I'm going to miss Dan and the sausage face!

I loved Jackie’s rant to Darlene about the jokes, I don’t care if jokes are ‘the Conner way’, they were cruel. 

Harris has always had junk in the trunk to me.  What balls of her to say that she’d stay with Dan and Louise instead of being with Darlene, Ben and Mark, Dan should have told her straight up that she can only come to the house to visit.

Love Katey Sagal but I’m sure there were lots of other women that could have been cast as Louise if she wasn’t interested in being full-time….Valerie Bertinelli or Nancy Travis comes to mind.

Finally, I like kids and everything but the actress that plays Beverly Rose skeeves me the bluedilly fuck out!  She’s pretty but she sounds like a homicidal doll; I wish they’d recast.

[nokat]

37 minutes ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

I loved Jackie’s rant to Darlene about the jokes, I don’t care if jokes are ‘the Conner way’, they were cruel. 

I found them cruel too. I didn't find them funny.

[Mr. Sparkle]

53 minutes ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

She’s pretty but she sounds like a homicidal doll; I wish they’d recast.

Her voice and the way she reads lines are really hard to take. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Funny how the ex-drinker Becky was so miffed that Mark wasn't punished more - true to life though.

Yeah but I kept waiting for someone to point out that Becky was around the same age when she and her friend got drunk on "tornados" in the original series, and Darlene was there to see it. I actually thought Harris did the responsible thing and stayed with him in the room. At least they didn't go anywhere. The tub overflowing was dumb though.

So is Michael Fishman off the show or did they just not include him in the new opening title sequence? 

[StaceyNotStacie]

My only complaint about the new opening is Dan’s brown shirt. I’ve hated it since the preview commercials for original reboot.  I wish someone would burn it. 
 

I enjoyed the Harris/Mark portion of the show, but could do without the Darlene and Jackie story. Like everyone said, the insults thrown at Jackie are awful and not funny. 

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

So is Michael Fishman off the show or did they just not include him in the new opening title sequence? 

He's off the show; I'm wondering how they're going to explain the character's absence. (And when...it'd be easy enough for these people to not even notice he hasn't been around...)

[Bastet]

Just now, ams1001 said:

He's off the show; I'm wondering how they're going to explain the character's absence. (And when...it'd be easy enough for these people to not even notice he hasn't been around...)

How would be a spoiler, so check the media thread for the answer to that (it's nothing big, don't worry), but the when is in "the first few episodes" (per the executive producer), so since it wasn't this episode it should be in the next one or the one after.

[Winston Wolfe]

5 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I don't really want to comment on the weight.  But when this show first started, I thought Emma looked a lot like Darlene, but now that she's a couple of years older, I don't see that anymore.  Maybe it is a resemblance to Roseanne we are seeing. 

Btw, I didn't mean anything negative about the Actor's weight at all. Regardless of size, wardrobe didn't do her any favors this episode.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I actually thought Harris did the responsible thing and stayed with him in the room. At least they didn't go anywhere. The tub overflowing was dumb though.

It might have been nice if Harris and Mark had a discussion about alternatives to alcohol to manage emotions. That could have been written as a bonding moment too.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Winston Wolfe

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, nokat said:

I found them cruel too. I didn't find them funny.

They were straight up emotional abuse - especially since Darlene & Co kept on piling them up. I'm glad Jackie finally fought back. And I was also surprised that Darlene at least talked about trying to change plus the sibling bonding. Those are all things long overdue. But since the continuity faery is mostly AWOL on this show I expect things to return back to dysfunctional normal in two episodes tops.

[Irate Panda]

I forgot to mention like a lot of others I was glad the sausage didn’t make the credits this time around.  I still can’t stand that this show is centered around Darlene or her weird ass marriage although I like Ben.  I know this is a weird question but does Dan/John have false teeth? His voice sounds off, but I wasn’t sure if that’s how he actually speaks now or he’s supposed to sound old and weary.  The voice itself reminds me of somebody whose dentures are slipping, but I guess maybe it could be his voice isn’t as powerful anymore although he could have yelled at Mark and Harris for getting drunk and flooding the room.  sad to see DJ gone and Mary still missing. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

It might have been nice if Harris and Mark had a discussion about alternatives to alcohol to manage emotions. 

Considering some of the choices Harris has made I would not have found that the least bit realistic.

[Bastet]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Considering some of the choices Harris has made I would not have found that the least bit realistic.

It's also not what Mark needed from Harris at the time.  That could come later, or, as is likely, not be necessary if he decides on his own that was a one and done for now.

[Chewy101]

Am I the only one not getting sound? I hear the crappy laugh track but no dialogue. It's very weird. Like living in Landford. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Chewy101

[Chewy101]

8 hours ago, marceline said:

10 hours ago, Jillybean said:

So the Roseanne characters that The Conners pretend never existed are: Fred, Jerry, Andy...who else?

Acting like Jackie is just some old maid who has never known love is just part of the destruction of the character and I hate it.

Yeah, I don't know why they are doing that. The actress claimed the Arena for Emmy's playing a very interesting character, and now they are trashing her. 

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, marceline said:

I thought the same thing. Perhaps the actress is pregnant because the ensemble she was wearing was weird and ugly.

I read on Distractify that there are rumors of her being pregnant but they couldn't find any truth to them.

As to the episode, I personally found it just as depressing as last season because of all the juvenile mean spiritedness between Darlene and Jackie.  And add creepy and gross to that too.  I don't care whose honeymoon it is and what you want to prove, you do not want to hear your aunt having sex right below you.  I don't want to see that on my TV.  And then her attitude about it only made it more creepy and gross.  I was thrilled that I finally didn't have to fast forward through the intro. where Dan deep throats a sausage but this stupid plot just took that all back.

Also those hideous faux "early American" couches in that rental were the style back in the late '70s and early '80s.  This show really goes out of its way to seem like it's set in the distant past.  You just don't see those anywhere anymore.  Even the die hard hold-outs like my sister in law got rid of hers over a decade ago.  And hers weren't even that hideous, LOL.

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I don't really want to comment on the weight.  But when this show first started, I thought Emma looked a lot like Darlene, but now that she's a couple of years older, I don't see that anymore.  Maybe it is a resemblance to Roseanne we are seeing. 

If I did not know better,  I would think she and Becky were sisters instead of Aunt and Niece.