S12.E19: We Need to Talk About Kathy

[Baltimore Betty]

11 minutes ago, mytmo said:

Was that basement even a walkout?

I think I saw sliders at the very end of the room.

[Jel]

Went to the vault to see if I could figure out who Erika was talking about

Scene in the chocolate shop
Dorit mentions how she was annoyed with Kyle's reaction. Erika finds it all so gross

Cut to Erika TH 

"I can't be dealing with these chicks that are worried about what will the neighbors think. Fuck the neighbors. You know.

Then she says, very animated, big smile, leans in:

By the way, I do want to say this...and let me be very clear, sometimes those ones that are really, you know, like doing the best, are hiding the most.

The way it was edited, it does give the impression that she was talking about Kyle because she had just been talking about Kyle in the scene before. But, could be intentionally misleading on the part of editors, who knows.

Back to the chic choccy shop:

Erika: You know, I'm getting tired of being the whipping boy, when I know there are others who display not the best behavior. So, if Kyle is going to have a conversation with you about my behavior...then tilts head, kind of aww hell no style.

Dorit: If you wanna get something off your chest, say it (I think, hard to tell with her international house of pancakes accent), who, who are you talking about?

Erika throws back her head, haughtily, says nothing

Dorit: Oh boy

Cut to Dorit TH: I think in this town, the rules are a little different for the hyper elite. Kathy's ... (well connected, basically) ..."you have to think twice if you want to challenge

So, is Erika talking about Kyle or Kathy?  Impossible to tell, but I thought I detected a slight whiff of ham. It felt a bit fake, maybe planned.

If it's about Kyle, hopefully Erika is pissed enough. But, Kyle is such a master at her craft, that she'll get to Erika before the reunion.

Hopes low, is what I am saying. Hopes are very low.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Jel

[Surrealist]

4 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

What does the "C" stand for?

Complex (multiple factor PSTD)

The multiple factors being Diana, Erika, Rinna, and Dorit.

4 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

(Ramona's Hampton house the morning after the naked drunken tiki-torch javelin competition). 

Wait, hold up. What?

Edited September 23, 2022 by Surrealist

[OlderThanDirt]

1 minute ago, Surrealist said:

Complex (multiple factor PSTD)

Oh, an official definition. I totally agree but I was thinking "creeping PTSD".  But I'm from the Era where I was called a "creeping socialist", which it turns out I am!

[Surrealist]

Just now, OlderThanDirt said:

Oh, an official definition. I totally agree but I was thinking "creeping PTSD".  But I'm from the Era where I was called a "creeping socialist", which it turns out I am!

Technically, the women I mentioned are creeps, so it still works. 😉

[SemiCharmedLife]

23 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I wouldn't say "in no way," as the headpiece sort of had some Art Deco-ness to it. Whether Erica knows that or she did it on purpose or she just felt like weraing a crazy getup, I have no clue. All I said was that Diana was much farther off the mark, IMO.

I never liked MASH, but I can clearly picture that episode. 

I agree with you.  It was a more original take on the 20's theme, just like Garcelle's was, doing Josephine Baker.  I can't stand Erika, but I did like the headpiece and I thought her make up was creative and appropriate for a costume party.  Now that I've given Erika her compliment for the decade, I'll slither off to my corner...

[hoodooznoodooz]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

hard to tell with her international house of pancakes accent

Hahahahaha!!!!

[Dixie Sugarbaker]

I find these reports of there being cracks in the FF5 relationships to be suspicious. They each are unpopular and some would seem to be on the chopping block, so what better way to stay on the show than there being a perceived breach?  People who don’t like Rinna and Erika may still watch if there is no FF5. I could see them agreeing to be at odds, but never revealing anything of importance, all as a way to stay on the show. I won’t believe there is really a problem with them until someone drops who of the FF5 actually leaked Puppygate.

[Jel]

51 minutes ago, Dixie Sugarbaker said:

I find these reports of there being cracks in the FF5 relationships to be suspicious. They each are unpopular and some would seem to be on the chopping block, so what better way to stay on the show than there being a perceived breach?  People who don’t like Rinna and Erika may still watch if there is no FF5. I could see them agreeing to be at odds, but never revealing anything of importance, all as a way to stay on the show. I won’t believe there is really a problem with them until someone drops who of the FF5 actually leaked Puppygate.

If Santa brings me this I won't ask for anything else for the next 10 years.

[RealHousewife]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:22 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Chocolate is a luxury.

It’s a luxury.

It’s a luxury.

It’s a real luxury.

This is a luxury chocolate.

Luxury! It’s the new chic! 

[Jel]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Hahahahaha!!!!

I actually met a real life Dorit type when we were on vacation this summer. We were in Cork, and when we met our tour guide I thought she was from the west coast of Canada (like we are). So I asked her where she was from. "Here" she said. I remarked that she didn't have an accent and she said she can't help it -- she picks up the accents of people she's around. On that tour she sounded mostly Irish, sometimes like she was from some southern state, and I think even a little Slavic at one point. 

I immediately thought of Dorit!

[RealHousewife]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:06 AM, CallmeCray said:

She is absolutely my all-time favorite housewife.  Authentic, honest, fair, and principled.  I can’t even think of one other BH housewife with those qualities, now that I think about it!!  

How in the hell did she end up here?! 😂

Agree. Garcelle is my favorite Real Housewife ever. There is normally a quality that annoys me even about housewives I like, but Garcelle consistently shows decency and emotional intelligence. 

[Glama]

On 9/22/2022 at 5:03 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

She was turning 40.  I don't think it's that horrible.

I'm pretty sure she said she was turning 39 and that this was going to be her last year in her thirties. 

[RealHousewife]

On 9/22/2022 at 2:47 AM, janiema said:

It’s amazing that so many of us dislike unlikeable cast members. 

I’m dead! Lol 

So no proof of Kathy using slurs, right? Sutton denied the story about Kathy calling her assistant a slur. I wonder if she’s just trying to hide whatever she vented about her family. She was really freaked out by American Woman. 

I don’t know what went down in Aspen, but Kathy is one of the few who’s been nice to both Garcelle and Crystal. Those actions speak more to me than the likes of Rinna’s words. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by RealHousewife

[Lady of nod]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:56 PM, Surrealist said:

At this point, I continue watching this show so that I can come here and snark about it.

I'd be happy with a spinoff show starring Phoenix and Jagger snarking on the adults in their lives.

We haven’t seen much of Jagger this year???? Love these kids

[SweetieDarling]

4 hours ago, Surrealist said:

8 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

(Ramona's Hampton house the morning after the naked drunken tiki-torch javelin competition). 

Wait, hold up. What?

Ramona hosted a weekend at her Hamptons house. Everyone got drunk. Leah professed her hatred for backyard tiki-torches and all they represent, ripped them out of the ground and threw them. 

The next morning, the yard was trashed. Champagne bottles in the pool, tiki-torches everywhere. The kitchen was a mess. No one had put anything away (Ramona went out to meet friends while this all went down -no one wanted to come with her), there was a vibrator in the leftover chicken,...

[SemiCharmedLife]

11 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

Ramona hosted a weekend at her Hamptons house. Everyone got drunk. Leah professed her hatred for backyard tiki-torches and all they represent, ripped them out of the ground and threw them. 

The next morning, the yard was trashed. Champagne bottles in the pool, tiki-torches everywhere. The kitchen was a mess. No one had put anything away (Ramona went out to meet friends while this all went down -no one wanted to come with her), there was a vibrator in the leftover chicken,...

Good times...   😉

BH will never be as real as the other franchises.  They actually have receipts, even if they have to whip out their cell phones and take the video themselves!

[pasdetrois]

20 hours ago, Dixie Sugarbaker said:

I find these reports of there being cracks in the FF5 relationships to be suspicious. They each are unpopular and some would seem to be on the chopping block, so what better way to stay on the show than there being a perceived breach?

Smart business people aggregate data to help make profitable decisions, and that includes forums and social media. I believe Bravo is monitoring sites such as this one to discern how the viewing public is reacting to the housewives shows, and making production decisions accordingly. They will never ax an asshole if the asshole is pulling in viewers; they understand that Erika and Rinna are a draw to viewers who hate them. There are exceptions, such as Vicki Gunvalson. RHoNY is being refreshed only because the ratings tanked.

To Dixie Sugarbaker's point, the viewers are pushing the show's direction. Notice how Rinna's, Erike's, Diana's, etc. social media follow a Bravo script as well as what they read here.

I suspect Bravo will continue to fan the flames of group divides, perhaps mixing up the groups to keep them "fresh" and keep the Rinnas and Erikas as long as they generate ratings.

Edited September 24, 2022 by pasdetrois

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, Lady of nod said:

We haven’t seen much of Jagger this year???? Love these kids

Same. The scene with Phoenix didn’t bother me. Maybe because I’m not a mother, I just thought that her discouraging her mother from having coke was cute. Dorit’s kids just make me melt every time. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

I just thought that her discouraging her mother from having coke was cute

[Hiyo]

Quote

BH will never be as real as the other franchises.  They actually have receipts, even if they have to whip out their cell phones and take the video themselves!

In Monique's final reunion on RHOP, she brought out a whole binder of receipts...literally.

[RoseAllDay]

On 9/22/2022 at 6:09 PM, Jack Terrier said:

Crystal IG about the party

it was also a murder mystery dinner we saw nothing about? 🔪 🩸 

Didn’t RONY do this over Christmas one year at (I think) Bluestone Manor? 1920s theme? Bethenny got into a huge fight with somebody, IIRC. 

Masters of orginality at Bravo.

[Yours Truly]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Agree. Garcelle is my favorite Real Housewife ever. There is normally a quality that annoys me even about housewives I like, but Garcelle consistently shows decency and emotional intelligence. 

I loooooooooveeeee Garcelle but for me she does have a quality that bugs me. She leaves things alone too easily… now before anyone comes at me with well she knows not to get too deep into any conversation or else she play right into their hands sometimes I feel like she stops way too short tho. So that’s the only thing I would love to see her get a little better at. Sometimes you gotta just go all in and put your foot down extra obvious. But for the most part I’m so extremely impressed and happy with Garcelle. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Yours Truly

[RoseAllDay]

2 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

Ramona hosted a weekend at her Hamptons house. Everyone got drunk. Leah professed her hatred for backyard tiki-torches and all they represent, ripped them out of the ground and threw them. 

The next morning, the yard was trashed. Champagne bottles in the pool, tiki-torches everywhere. The kitchen was a mess. No one had put anything away (Ramona went out to meet friends while this all went down -no one wanted to come with her), there was a vibrator in the leftover chicken,...

Somehow, I just can’t be as pissed at RONY as I get with BH. (But I understand NY has gotten meaner, too…) For instance, the other day they reran the Jovani episode, and I was LMAO at Lu’s cabaret and Dorinda’s heckling. Another golden episode.

[Surrealist]

5 hours ago, Jel said:

I actually met a real life Dorit type when we were on vacation this summer. We were in Cork, and when we met our tour guide I thought she was from the west coast of Canada (like we are). So I asked her where she was from. "Here" she said. I remarked that she didn't have an accent and she said she can't help it -- she picks up the accents of people she's around. On that tour she sounded mostly Irish, sometimes like she was from some southern state, and I think even a little Slavic at one point. 

I immediately thought of Dorit!

Dorit's Doppelgänger 

7 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Now that I've given Erika her compliment for the decade, I'll slither off to my corner...

3 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

We haven’t seen much of Jagger this year???? Love these kids

Edited September 24, 2022 by Surrealist

[Flutterby]

Every time I watch a reality show, I think to myself that these people must be bat shit crazy to even entertain the idea to go on TV where every rotten crumb, in every rotting corner, will be exposed in some way, some how, at some time.  Why?

[Gracie123]

We're supposed to take RINNA's word for it?  Okay.  Bahahahahaha!

[Gracie123]

5 hours ago, Jel said:

I actually met a real life Dorit type when we were on vacation this summer. We were in Cork, and when we met our tour guide I thought she was from the west coast of Canada (like we are). So I asked her where she was from. "Here" she said. I remarked that she didn't have an accent and she said she can't help it -- she picks up the accents of people she's around. On that tour she sounded mostly Irish, sometimes like she was from some southern state, and I think even a little Slavic at one point. 

I immediately thought of Dorit!

I grew up in Montreal and then moved to Texas in my early thirties.  I spent 22 years in the Southern US before moving back to Canada.  People have told me that my accent is "weird".  I, of course, don't notice anything different other than certain phrases that I picked up (y'all, bless your heart, etc.), that I had never used in Canada.  It happens.

That being said, I still think Dorit is full of shit.

[goofygirl]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:18 PM, mytmo said:

Will we ever find out what happened?

Probably not.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Kyle has the same relationship with her sisters that she has with her dogs. She supposedly loves them, but uses as much camera-time as possible to show how much they annoy her.

[TheCouchPotato]

No, Kathy, you're one of the only ones I've liked! Please let there be a reason for why you said all those horrible things about your own sister! 
 

[RoseAllDay]

4 hours ago, Flutterby said:

Every time I watch a reality show, I think to myself that these people must be bat shit crazy to even entertain the idea to go on TV where every rotten crumb, in every rotting corner, will be exposed in some way, some how, at some time.  Why?

What always gets me is, they get caught in something; they swear up and down that it never happened; and there is an immediate flashback proving that it did.

See: Lisa Rinna.

[Kdawg82]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:40 PM, sistermagpie said:

LOL - love Rinna laying down how this is about how incredibly successful Kyle is and Kathy isn't. 

YES! I was just coming to mention this!!! Seriously! Kyle is a "real housewife." I personally never heard of her until this show (which I haven't always watched). Until his passing, my father-in-law thought it was Demi Moore on the show. I was like "wait...what?! Demi Moore is a RH?!" LoL

Ritalin Rinna going around the house the morning after the ALEGED "Kathy breakdown" packing & saying how she's "still in shock" was beyond the pale.  

[Glama]

14 hours ago, OlderThanDirt said:

Oh, an official definition. I totally agree but I was thinking "creeping PTSD".  But I'm from the Era where I was called a "creeping socialist", which it turns out I am!

I thought maybe if it's to do with something Erika did, it could be of the 'See you NTY PTSD' -variety.

 Also, the quotebox below, I don't know where that came from and I can't delete. Sorry Surrealist to bring you in to this mess!

14 hours ago, Surrealist said:

[Surrealist]

11 hours ago, TheCouchPotato said:

No, Kathy, you're one of the only ones I've liked! Please let there be a reason for why you said all those horrible things about your own sister! 
 

[RoseAllDay]

On 9/22/2022 at 8:02 PM, NJbutNoHousewife said:

Mom had to die worrying about you. JFC that is so vile and totally unforgivable, I forgot about that line. 

That was TOTALLY intended to hurt and provoke, to justify Kyle’s disgust with Kim. Words can be lethal. Maybe that’s what we’re seeing here with Kathy and Kyle.

And while we’re reliving fond memories…remember when everyone abandoned Kim after the Dinner Party from Hell, leaving her to ride home by herself, and Kyle wouldn’t answer her phone as she laughed it up with everyone else? That humiliated Kim, with the camera square on her.

Kim was never Little Miss Sunshine to be sure, but from my perspective she was often treated horribly. There is another scene I remember where Kyle invited Kim over when they were still trying to patch things up, and that turned into a typical Kyle ambush.

Is there a more dysfunctional family on reality TV than the Richards/Hilton clan? I’m kind of taking back my earlier comment that Kyle is grieving the family dysfunction. It’s clear she very much feeds it.

[CallmeCray]

15 hours ago, Flutterby said:

Every time I watch a reality show, I think to myself that these people must be bat shit crazy to even entertain the idea to go on TV where every rotten crumb, in every rotting corner, will be exposed in some way, some how, at some time.  Why?

I always think this as well - no amount of money would be worth it to me.  In the case of Kyle and BOTH of her sisters allowing their family “business” to be fodder for the public?!  No flippin way.  I’ll never understand it.  

If fame is the draw, that to me is a sign of dysfunction in itself.  It’s really sad.

Edited September 24, 2022 by CallmeCray

[CallmeCray]

On 9/23/2022 at 8:47 AM, Jel said:

Went to the vault to see if I could figure out who Erika was talking about

Scene in the chocolate shop
Dorit mentions how she was annoyed with Kyle's reaction. Erika finds it all so gross

Cut to Erika TH 

"I can't be dealing with these chicks that are worried about what will the neighbors think. Fuck the neighbors. You know.

Then she says, very animated, big smile, leans in:

By the way, I do want to say this...and let me be very clear, sometimes those ones that are really, you know, like doing the best, are hiding the most.

The way it was edited, it does give the impression that she was talking about Kyle because she had just been talking about Kyle in the scene before. But, could be intentionally misleading on the part of editors, who knows.

Back to the chic choccy shop:

Erika: You know, I'm getting tired of being the whipping boy, when I know there are others who display not the best behavior. So, if Kyle is going to have a conversation with you about my behavior...then tilts head, kind of aww hell no style.

Dorit: If you wanna get something off your chest, say it (I think, hard to tell with her international house of pancakes accent), who, who are you talking about?

Erika throws back her head, haughtily, says nothing

Dorit: Oh boy

Cut to Dorit TH: I think in this town, the rules are a little different for the hyper elite. Kathy's ... (well connected, basically) ..."you have to think twice if you want to challenge

So, is Erika talking about Kyle or Kathy?  Impossible to tell, but I thought I detected a slight whiff of ham. It felt a bit fake, maybe planned.

If it's about Kyle, hopefully Erika is pissed enough. But, Kyle is such a master at her craft, that she'll get to Erika before the reunion.

Hopes low, is what I am saying. Hopes are very low.

Oh, it definitely felt and sounded planned - scripted, even.   Erika’s an opportunist and is taking every advantage of the heat being off of her for a minute with the big SQUIRREL! thrown out by Rinna.  She’s going to apply more heat to the situation in an effort to draw out her little “reprieve”.  

[ladle]

Some intrepid journalist needs to find the person who drove the sprinter van with Rinna and Kathy in it, and get their recollection of events. What are the odds they signed an NDA?

How many fucking "Roaring 20's" parties can one TV franchise withstand??

Thanks so much, show, for forcing me to relive in flashbacks what was potentially Kyle's worst Reunion outfit ever. 

Crystal's daughter has a special shed just for throwing slime?? The rich really do have it all, don't they?

[Cheyanne11]

Having now watched, that was definitely a performance by Rinna throughout the entire episode.  She didn't have "PTSD" at Crystal's party, she's annoyed that there already hasn't been some planned event to call Kathy out for all this supposed behavior that was the most offensive thing Rinna has ever heard (as if).  This is 100% all about wanting to knock Kathy down as a fan favorite, which, OK, but then Rinna needs to OWN IT.  Why can't she just OWN IT? 

That's MY TRUTH.

Also, I liked Crystal's basement reno.  Certainly not if it cost $900K, but I could see that being a couple hundred thousand. 

[ladle]

My take on this whole situation is that I'm #teamnobody. There is room for everyone to be an asshole here. I understand the impulse to take Kathy's side, because the other women have shown themselves to be shitty, but I think it's 100% probable that Kathy had some sort of diva temper tantrum after the cameras were rolling. We saw the little fit she threw about Rinna and the tequila, and that's while she was being filmed! Of course Rinna was being shady! But Kathy's reaction was, in my opinion, extreme. She could have just laughed it off. And then to get upset at Kyle for "just letting" Rinna order the Jenner tequila? I don't like Kyle, and I absolutely think she could have been more supportive about Kathy's business overall, but Kyle's not responsible for Rinna's behavior there. From what we saw, it seemed like Kyle was across the room doing something else at the time, too. (I also think the fact that Kathy blamed this on Kyle says a lot about their dynamic.)

I don't get the sense that this was some elaborate, pre-planned takedown of Kathy Hilton. Frankly, I don't think the FF5 are even smart enough to pull that off.

NOW, do I think Rinna (and to a lesser extent the other FF5) are running with this and embellishing to create a narrative? YEP! Of course they are! Because they are also horrible!

There's enough suck to go around.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, RoseAllDay said:

That was TOTALLY intended to hurt and provoke, to justify Kyle’s disgust with Kim. Words can be lethal. Maybe that’s what we’re seeing here with Kathy and Kyle.

And while we’re reliving fond memories…remember when everyone abandoned Kim after the Dinner Party from Hell, leaving her to ride home by herself, and Kyle wouldn’t answer her phone as she laughed it up with everyone else? That humiliated Kim, with the camera square on her.

Kim was never Little Miss Sunshine to be sure, but from my perspective she was often treated horribly. There is another scene I remember where Kyle invited Kim over when they were still trying to patch things up, and that turned into a typical Kyle ambush.

Is there a more dysfunctional family on reality TV than the Richards/Hilton clan? I’m kind of taking back my earlier comment that Kyle is grieving the family dysfunction. It’s clear she very much feeds it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle's felt like the one with no power for so long and now sees this show as her first chance to be the "favored" sister. The other two just don't seem to have an agenda for the show that was specifically for/about Kyle.

[Hiyo]

"Mom, can you see me? I'm the bestest most succesful daughter now!"

[CapeCodLuv]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:02 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

I think I saw sliders at the very end of the room.

I searched on Google to see pictures of the renovation. I applaud them for making use of the space to add value but it appears so dark to me. I did not see any natural light which is to be expected if it's a true basement, but everything is dark gray, everything. I love the color and have used it liberally in my house on walls and some furniture in various shades. From what I saw the basement was all dark gray with no natural light coming in.  It was beautifully done but  to me it was over powering and depressing. Perhaps it is his man cave and the color scheme was his choice? I just think if you don't have natural light you need to look to lighten up in different ways.

[ladle]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:08 PM, 65mickey said:

what I understand  only Lisa, Erika and Diana claim to have witnessed Kathy acting up at the club

Sutton also said she saw Kathy behaving erratically at the club, which to me lends a bit more credence to the account, since she's not in the FF5 and doesn't have a track record of lying. Rinna is an asshole who is weaponizing and overdramatizing this for a storyline, FOR CERTAIN, but I think there's probably a kernel of truth there. 

[ladle]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:34 PM, Talented Tenth said:

We don't even know everything Kathy said yet or what she will admit to, yet people are already sweeping it under the rug.  Why?  Because she pulls off her Rose Nylund act?  None of us really know her.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I agree with this. I found Kathy's babe-in-the-woods act during her TH so disingenuous. "Did I say something that upset Rinna? Really? Heavens, I can't imagine what that could have been!" She knew something was up, because the next day she refused to get on the plane with/film with the other women. 

Did Rinna take whatever happened and give it the soap opera treatment, and did Erika gleefully jump on that bandwagon? Of course they did, because they are awful!, awful! people! But I don't think Kathy Hilton is a complete innocent here. 

[90sfan]

After going down a wormhole of recap podcasts and all of your posts, I have a couple of new theories as to why Rinna was acting out of character at the party.

1. She really did think that Kathy would not be here, so she was going to use the party as the time to let everyone in on Kathy's "devil" behavior. I'm sure her and Erika have already discussed, but I think she was hoping for one of those times where she had a captive audience to hear her Kathy story. Then Kathy did show up...

2. Her sulking around was when a little kid starts pouting in the corner waiting for someone to ask what's wrong. And then nobody asked her, so she finally just left.

One of the podcasts, I think Watch what crappens, was talking about how she was trying to be like LVP but failed. Where LVP would do all the set up and then have someone else be the one that brings it up to keep her hands clean. So their theory was that Rinna may have been talking to Erika, Dorit and maybe even Diana but forgot the important piece of setting someone up to be the "bad guy".

Like others, I don't doubt that Kathy did have some type of meltdown but could it really be any worse than what we have seen from others on this show? I'm not buying the PTSD of it all.

[Hiyo]

Quote

But I don't think Kathy Hilton is a complete innocent here. 

I don't think many think she is purely innocent, I think the issues are

1) How much of it (Kathy's meltdown) was embellished by the source (Rinna) since none of it was caught on tape (that we know of, so far)

and

2) How much it seems like The Fatal Five are trying to focus on Kathy to try to divert attention, scorn, and criticism for the shitty actions we have seen from them, especially Rinna, Ericka, and Diana.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Hiyo

[ladle]

I, like others here, feel like the audience is owned some answers. Not about what happened with Kathy, but rather what happened with the golf area that Crystal and Rob were supposedly installing in the basement! 

[Chicklet]

I was originally leaning toward Kathy being mischaracterized but after reading a lot of the Hilton book, woo boy she's a nutjob and really a horrible person (probably all of them are). She might have mellowed but I am starting to believe it.

Now Rinna- she's a total liar and conflated things yes but Kathy's hands are not clean here.