S01.E01: The Heirs of the Dragon

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Viserys hosts a tournament to celebrate the birth of his second child. Rhaenyra welcomes her uncle Daemon back to the Red Keep.

Reminder: 

This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. previews) should be in spoiler tags.

[PurpleTentacle]

I don't see any posts here, but I've seen the episode without any special access (maybe because I'm not in the US), so won't be using spoiler tags. So be warned.

I understand why they had the text with "172 years before Daenerys Targaryen" at the beginning, but I wish they had left it with "the death of the mad king and Robert's rebellion".
Bringing up Dany just opens up old wounds. I can't help but think about how dirty D&D did her, in so many ways.
Same goes for the speech at the end, about the long night and that it is supposedly going to wipe out all life on the planet, if a Targ doesn't sit the throne to unite the kingdoms. Epic in theory, but in practice that turned out to be barely an inconvenience and didn't need any other kingdom, but the north, to solve it. Afterwards half of the fallen armies even respawned. Not that bad at all.
-
But in between there was some really, really good shit. Political intrigue and dialouges that are a pleasure to listen to. So all the things I loved about GoT before D&D bullied GRRM out of the writers room and made their GoT for dummies. You know, they said they dumbed it down "so soccer moms and football players could understand it", but it was always pretty clear to me, that they didn't and don't understand it themselves and couldn't write any smarter if their lifes depended on it. Soccer moms and football players understood and loved the first three seasons just fine.
-
I always have problems seeing Matt Smith play an asshole. Not that he doesn't act the character in a believable way. But he is my favourite doctor and such a nice guy in that role. I hope I'll get used to it. Up until now the roles I've seen him in were rather small and so I had no time to do so.
Speaking of asshole-Targaryen, I was sure he would be disqualified for the illegal move in the jousting match. But apparently you can do whatever the fuck you want and murder willy-nilly during this tourney. That doesn't quite fit with what I know about medieval tourneys, or what we've seen in GoT before. I guess a lot could have changed in a 170 years, but to me it seemed more like a desperate attempt to get the violence- and gore- quota up for the pilot. Which I really don't think it needed. GoT didn't have that, did it? I remember one little beheading and that was it.
Also man was that helmet stupid. Dude would have deserved to get a lance through his face. But it was stupid in a way that was in character. Something this vain, cocky guy would wear, so not the kind of stupid we got from the later half of GoT. So that's nice.
I assume he's the major antagonist? I hope he is a bit more clever than it looked in this episode. Otherwise this battle of wits and cunning is going to be very one-sided.
-
I guess this still holds true:

They have 10 fully grown dragons, we saw two, for a few minutes. In the pilot episode, where you'd usually blow a lot of your budget. Doesn't bode that well for the rest of the show in that aspect.
Also, these aren't even dragons! These are wyverns! Can't believe I never noticed that before.
-
All in all I really liked this, a lot more than I had expected. I hope the occasional stabbing pain in my chest, when I get reminded of later "storylines" in GoT will lessen with time.

[AngieBee1]

I will definitely stick with it for a few episodes but other than Paddy Considine and Rhys Ifans' acting this episode did nothing for me.

Edited August 21, 2022 by AngieBee1

[steelyis]

12 minutes ago, AngieBee1 said:

I will definitely stick with it for a few episodes but other than Paddy Considine and Rhys Ifans' acting this episode did nothing for me.

Same. But I can't deny my three years old nostalgia hit hard watching King's Landing and the Red Keep come into frame. And the show knew what it was doing playing GoT's theme at the end of the episode. Manipulative bastards!

I'm going to stick for now, too. I've been wanting to see Fire and Blood play out in more detail for a while now, and there's real potential HotD, once it finds its footing, will improve when the plot gets going.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, AngieBee1 said:

I will definitely stick with it for a few episodes but other than Paddy Considine

I kept waiting for Jason Bourne to talk him through evading enemies... Tie your shoe... NOW!

[rollacoaster]

Wow. Once the king decided to save the life of the child, the queen became just so much meat. Wooooo, that primitive c-section was brutal, and her dawning realization of what was about to happen broke my heart. For all the rest of the violence in the episode, THIS was the most violent moment.

A state-owned womb indeed. 

Fuck. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by rollacoaster

[BlackberryJam]

So many bad wigs that I couldn't care much about keeping them straight. Far too many bland white dudes.

Cristen Cole was hot. 

[peridot]

I enjoyed this episode.  It had a good establishment of characters and motivations.  I had to turn away from some of the gore, though.

When Daemon was first shown, was he flirting with Rhaenrys?  I couldn't tell if she was reciprocating or not.  The remark about "Heir for a Day" should definitely cause the end of any possible romantic feelings on her side.

Otto Hightower is a scumbag.  I thought he summoned his daughter because of her grief, but he tried to whore out his daughter to a grieving widow, just to gain power.  It's been a while since I watched Game of Thrones, so I have to get used to everyone trying to one-up each other.

Rhaenys must be pissed that she was passed over for Queen and her younger relative is now named as heir.  I look forward to the rest of the season.

[AimingforYoko]

There was no 'push a kid out the window' moment in this, but I'll stick around for a bit. Hopefully they give Matt Smith more to do than, sneer, fuck and kill.

[Constantinople]

5 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

Wow. Once the king decided to save the life of the child, the queen became just so much meat. For all the rest of the violence in the episode, THIS moment was the most violent. 

Fuck. 

It reminded me of a similar scene, but with different motivations, in I, Claudius.

Part of me thinks cutting back and forth between the Queen giving birth and the tournament was a little heavy-handed, but it got across the point of how trivial the tournament was.

[dramachick]

Well.

I'M IN!

The political machinations in Westeros were always what I was most interested in, and this episode set the right tone for what I hope is to come.

Hightower is dangerous. Rhaenyra will have to watch her back.

As soon as they said the baby was in breech, I knew what was coming. 😪 

Childbirth is dangerous.  

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I assume he's the major antagonist? I hope he is a bit more clever than it looked in this episode. Otherwise this battle of wits and cunning is going to be very one-sided.

I hope so too (though I do love Matt Smith, he fits seamlessly into any role he takes on). It lacked the likes of Tyrion who had great discussions and repartee with a lot of the characters. Maybe we’ll see another side of Daemon, or there may be other witty characters still to come. 

This didn’t have the impact the first episode of GoT had on me (and still has when I rewatch occasionally) and I was late to the game (pardon the pun). I caught up just before the fourth season. Even after all the hype for 3 years, I still found it fantastic. But it’s early days so I’ll certainly stay tuned to HOTD. 

♫  Anticipation... 🎶

Edited August 22, 2022 by ferjy

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

They have 10 fully grown dragons, we saw two, for a few minutes. In the pilot episode, where you'd usually blow a lot of your budget. Doesn't bode that well for the rest of the show in that aspect.

Gotta save the money for when the dragons start getting involved in fighting.  Flying around and cremating the occasional corpse isn't exactly worthy of the big bucks.

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Bringing up Dany just opens up old wounds. I can't help but think about how dirty D&D did her, in so many ways.
Same goes for the speech at the end, about the long night and that it is supposedly going to wipe out all life on the planet, if a Targ doesn't sit the throne to unite the kingdoms. Epic in theory, but in practice that turned out to be barely an inconvenience and didn't need any other kingdom, but the north, to solve it. Afterwards half of the fallen armies even respawned. Not that bad at all.

Seriously, are the writers incapable of reading the room, or are they deliberately rubbing the shitty GOT ending in our faces?

[AntFTW]

Interesting first episode.

[CletusMusashi]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

I kept waiting for Jason Bourne to talk him through evading enemies... Tie your shoe... NOW!

You might have to settle for Jason Dorne.

[AntFTW]

The childbirth scene was... a lot.

It's entirely possible, and maybe even plausible, that Aemma would have died in childbirth anyway but this... was unnecessary cruelty.

[WaltersHair]

Has nothing changed from 172 years ago? Same fashions, weapons of mass destruction, and kingdom approved brothels?

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

The childbirth scene was... a lot.

It's entirely possible, and maybe even plausible, that Aemma would have died in childbirth anyway but this... was unnecessary cruelty.

The Grand Maester was evidently of the opinion that it was a certainty at that point.

Period-specific surgery, etc. can be really terrifying onscreen. I always think of the John Adams depiction of an early 19th century mastectomy.

Edited August 22, 2022 by SeanC

[Constantinople]

Obviously the matter of the succession is the paramount issue, but maybe it shouldn't be brought up at the very first Small Council meeting after Queen Aemma and Prince Baelon died. Give a guy a break Otto. JFC.

[bluvelvet]

I guess I’m one of the minor few who didn’t mind the ending of GOT, rushed yes but I always expected Daenerys to go full mad queen based on prior seasons. I for one loved the GOT connection with Viserys passing on the secret and liked hearing strings of the original theme.  
 

That childbirth scene was BRUTAL! Ugh, I couldn’t fully watch it. I can already tell Daemon is not a good person but so far I stan, I’m not familiar with the actor but he was great.  Also surprised at Otto essentially using his daughter that way. I assume the Kings now deceased wife was his sister, I wonder if the inbreeding had to do with all those unsuccessful pregnancies. Her apology kinda broke my heart. I wonder if they had a real romantic love or more expectations. 

I definitely got flirting vibes from Daemon/Rhaenyra, but then again they’re Targs.  Looking forward to the next episode. 

[magdalene]

For all the gore - it's going to be brutal watching this show - the most awful thing was watching Queen Emma being killed to bring forth the short  lived heir.  I couldn't help my modern self kinda going "karma got you there king, you should have chosen your wife over your child". But it probably would have made no difference sadly.

We seem to be in for a lot of explicit sex in addition to the over the top gore, just like in the mother ship. Bleh.

Daemon is a piece of work but I vastly prefer the hot headed dick head ruled by his ego and - err Targ-ness to an ambitious and back-stabbing schemer like Otto Hightower who turns out his own teen daughter to advance those ambitions.

Criston Cole looks just like a historical romance hero, doesn't he? Laughs.

What we saw of the dragons was awesome.

[AntFTW]

5 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Has nothing changed from 172 years ago? Same fashions, weapons of mass destruction, and kingdom approved brothels?

Apparently technology doesn't evolve either LOL

2 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I assume the Kings now deceased wife was his sister, I wonder if the inbreeding had to do with all those unsuccessful pregnancies.

I read on a list of characters that she's an Arryn from the Vale, but she's also a Targaryen descendant through a grandparent or a great grandparent or something like that.

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Obviously the matter of the succession is the paramount issue, but maybe it shouldn't be brought up at the very first Small Council meeting after Queen Aemma and Prince Baelon died. Give a guy a break Otto. JFC.

Hey, next you're going to say that Otto sending his daughter to the king's chambers immediately afterward to start the process of making her his new wife was too forward.

[meligator]

It was enough to keep going.  I look forward to more dragons in the future - distinct personalities and all.

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Hey, next you're going to say that Otto sending his daughter to the king's chambers immediately afterward to start the process of making her his new wife was too forward.

In her mother's dress

[paigow]

Another strike against The Queen Who Never Was is that she married outside the family....

[Lady S.]

Tbh, my biggest gripe is no full opening theme. That was the highlight of Thrones even at its worst and the one element I hoped they would recycle in a way that fit this show.

[Diapason Untuned]

Kinda felt like I was watching season 1 GoT again, only bloodier and edgier. A fine first episode.

Switching scenes between the pointless butchery of the tournament and the Queen experiencing real, legitimate pain and yes violence inflicted on her body against her will was somewhat heavy handed, but it got the point across. I confess to chuckling when Lady Velaryon was deriding the knights as summer boys whilst someone's head was getting imploded on the field. Urk.

Matt Smith does an excellent job playing Daemon as a complete and total asshat. he was really one of the highlights of the episode. You can see how people gravitate towards this man while also acknowledging what an awful person he is. "Heir for a day" indeed. Man fucked around and found out.

I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Rhaenya. The actress is giving me major Arya vibes but the series is already taking her a totally different direction from that character, which is quite interesting.

Well done, HBO.

[Amethyst]

I figured Queen Aemma wasn't going to survive regardless of Viserys' choice.  The baby was stuck and they would have to get it out somehow.  But it was heartbreaking to see that poor woman lying there in agonizing pain, with no idea what was going on.  I think that she actually would have given her blessing to Viserys if he told her what was happening; if it meant the baby would survive, especially a boy.  He should have been begging for her forgiveness instead of muttering that "they're getting the baby" over and over.  I know Viserys would do what he wanted to anyway, but at least spare Aemma some dignity and give her decency of knowing her fate.  And they lost the baby, so it all ended up a waste.

Between the festering sore on his back and the Iron Throne literally pricking him til he bleeds, Viserys might want to be careful about what he's touching.  He's got enough to worry about with Daemon.

[aghst]

22 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

Wow. Once the king decided to save the life of the child, the queen became just so much meat. Wooooo, that primitive  c-section was brutal, and her realization of what was about to happen broke my heart. For all the rest of the violence in the episode, THIS was the most violent moment.

A state-owned womb indeed. 

Fuck. 

The timing is interesting, given what's happening in mid 2022 in the US.

Spoiler

But Inside the Episode, the show runners said that Viserys is made to understand that the wife is dying either way, whether or not they do the C-section.  It's a question of whether the baby could be saved.

They also said they intercut it with the jousting battle, in which a lot of knights with pent-up aggression, because there haven't been any wars for them to fight in, because Emma said birthing heirs is her battlefield -- she also said it would be her last pregnancy, which proved unfortunately prophetic.

OK the Court intrigue is fine, that was a big part of GoT's appeal.  Or should I say familial strife, even though the show runners said Damon loves his niece Raynera.

Forgive me, I can't with these multi-syllabic, multi-diphthong names.

They need to have easier to remember but still more memorable character names, like Robb, Jon, Ned, Arya, Bran, Bron.

Yeah I know they come from the book and GRRM was trying to make them have the whitest names possible.

So the other part that the GoT pilot had were the kids.  Raynera is a kid, so is Alicent.  But Raynera's biracial cousins are real kids.  Let's see if they have a bigger role or they're just decoration.

GoT made you identify with the Stark kids right away and made you want to kill Joffrey.

They made you pick teams right away, which was a very effective tactic to engage viewers.

I suppose Viserys and Raynera come off more sympathetic than Damon.

[Jodithgrace]

With that long white blonde hair, I half expected Matt Smith to grab a bow and go looking for hobbits. 
 

So far, I’m interested, but that was brutal, from Daemon bringing “law and order,” to that free for all joust, to that horrendous childbirth scene. I spent half the show watching between my fingers.

On GOT, they always claimed that the iron throne was designed to be uncomfortable, so that the kings never got complacent, but that throne was positively lethal. I wonder if that non healing wound on the king’s back will do him in eventually. Especially since he keeps sitting there.

[aghst]

14 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

So far, I’m interested, but that was brutal, from Daemon bringing “law and order,” to that free for all joust, to that horrendous childbirth scene. I spent half the show watching between my fingers.

On GOT, they always claimed that the iron throne was designed to be uncomfortable, so that the kings never got complacent, but that throne was positively lethal. I wonder if that non healing wound on the king’s back will do him in eventually. Especially since he keeps sitting there.

That jousting tournament, they said they wanted to connect GoT viewers to the brutality of the original series.

Forgot to mention, Raynera and Allison seem to be taking in jousting well but in one shot, you could see Allison's nails all reddened because she picked at them in reaction to the brutality.

As for the sore on his back, probably skin cancer on these albinos.  But it's probably some mystical ailment.

Are they going to get rid of Viserys so quickly and make Raynera grow up fast?

Edited August 22, 2022 by aghst

[AntFTW]

1 minute ago, Amethyst said:

I think that she actually would have given her blessing to Viserys if he told her what was happening; if it meant the baby would survive, especially a boy.  He should have been begging for her forgiveness instead of muttering that "they're getting the baby" over and over.  I know Viserys would do what he wanted to anyway, but at least spare Aemma some dignity and give her decency of knowing her fate.  And they lost the baby, so it all ended up a waste.

That's my biggest problem with the scene. There is no pretty or light way to show it but at least tell her!

[CletusMusashi]

Yeah, going into it I knew that the medieval stasis trope was going to annoy me. But it's omnipresent in sword and sorcery media. So silly though. I mean, just to pick a couple of dates that it's easy to do math from: 1500 AD had full suits of heavy articulated plate armor, but hand-held firearms were only up to the arquebus stage. By 1672, body armor was rare, even helmets were fading away, and muskets were too common even to be thought of as new or exotic. Or, 1000 AD had short-sleeved mailshirts and nasal helms, but 1172 had full head to toe suits of mail with gauntlets, great helms, and specialized point designs on swords, spears and arrows for penetrating all that armor. And also high powered steel crossbows.

But, truthfully, I was more bothered by Viserys and his dark facial stubble. And whatever the hell was going on with that Walking Dead surplus wig they stuck poor Cordys with. Poor guy looked like the only way he could think of to explain "Hamilton" was to say "Well, it's not just shitty rap songs, your grace, it's also that everyone looks like this... Otto, pass me that mop head..."

As far as overall characters go, though, I'm pretty much enjoying everyone that's noticeable. I'm already forgetting their names, but I'll come around on all that eventually. Daemon is a good villain or antihero or whatever he turns out to be. Sometimes a little too on the nose ("Why don't you trust me, brother?" "Because your name is literally Daemon! It's like not expecting Sinestro to turn evil!") but never boring, and in a pilot episode I do very much appreciate not being boring. Rhaenyra is competent both at court and at the less ladylike stuff like dragonriding, without those two factors feeling too dramatically at odds with each other (the way they were with Arya and Sansa, for example) and seems to be actually respected by people already. There were murmurings of a "female heir is highly unorthadox," but nothing about her not having the education or the disposition or anything. Doesn't mean those who prefer a male heir might not still side with Daemon, of course. Or they might still side with him for other reasons. The story is still young. I don't remember her friend's name, Otto's daughter, but I like her too. That actress is nailing it. Viserys is doing a good job with the material he has, but that darkass stubble does still anoy me, plus he has "red shirt" written all over him.

This show seems to be more like what I thought GoT was going to be like, before I actually watched GoT. Fewer locations, more plotting and intrigue going on at closish range, instead of storylines on seperate continents that take forever to merge. What it's missing that GoT had, though, is an A+++ protagonist like Tyrion or a villain like Joffrey who can singlehandedly make any scene that they are in awesome. Despite that lack, it is amazingly good for a pilot. I'm in.

Edited August 22, 2022 by CletusMusashi

[Lady S.]

10 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

They have 10 fully grown dragons, we saw two, for a few minutes. In the pilot episode, where you'd usually blow a lot of your budget. Doesn't bode that well for the rest of the show in that aspect.

Funny, I was thinking what a difference it makes when a show has a big budget from the start. Early GoT skimped on horses whenever they could and their royal tourney didn't look as grand as that one. Why would they blow all their dradon fx budget in the pilot just for gratuititous shots?

Now, the wig budget otoh is truly tragic and apparently never going to improve for this 'verse.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Lady S.

[Diapason Untuned]

31 minutes ago, meligator said:

In her mother's dress

Her dead mother's dress.

[Constantinople]

A second son who stands to inherit nothing he doesn't seize for himself!

Remind you of anyone Daemon?

I mean, besides Otto Hightower?

[peridot]

I forgot to ask, what were those orbs they were putting in the Council's table?

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

So many bad wigs that I couldn't care much about keeping them straight. Far too many bland white dudes.

I've watched the umbrella academy. I'm now immune to bad wigs. This was nothing in comparison.

1 hour ago, peridot said:

Rhaenys must be pissed that she was passed over for Queen and her younger relative is now named as heir.  I look forward to the rest of the season.

I can see that going two ways: 1. her being pissed and conspiring against Rhaenyra. 2. Her being supportive, to help a woman on the throne, something that was denied her, to finally get some progress in that country.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing how that plays out.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Gotta save the money for when the dragons start getting involved in fighting.  Flying around and cremating the occasional corpse isn't exactly worthy of the big bucks.

But usually you built some of that into your pilot to draw in viewers instead of the low budget slaughter we got. Which I think probably doesn't bode that well for the overall budget of this show? Afaik the takeover from Discovery took a big toll on a lot of shows at HBO. Do we know how much budget this show has?

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Seriously, are the writers incapable of reading the room, or are they deliberately rubbing the shitty GOT ending in our faces?

I think GRRM just loves his characters and consideres the last seasons of GoT as non-canon. I'm not even sure he watched them. I sure wouldn't if somebody bullied me out of the writers room and proceeded to assasinate all my beloved characters. So I don't think he quite gets what a lot of the viewers feel when they are reminded of that trainwreck. Maybe somebody should have told him.

51 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I guess I’m one of the minor few who didn’t mind the ending of GOT, rushed yes but I always expected Daenerys to go full mad queen based on prior seasons.

That she went from 0 to mad queen in three episodes without any character development was precisely the problem. Nobody is saying that she couldn't have ended up there, just that how the writers did it was atrocious. Also that by far wasn't the only problem. The show basically sucked from season 5 onwards, with some problems creeping up as early as season 4. But that's a bit too off topic, so I'm going to stop there.

39 minutes ago, paigow said:

Another strike against The Queen Who Never Was is that she married outside the family....

She married a Velaryon though. That is generally an approved match for Targaryens. Of course previously it was stated that that was because Velaryons were also of valyrian blood and generally looked like the Targs, which went out the window when they cast the Velaryons as black in this show, because apperently the writers weren't smart enough to come up with a way to include some diversity organically, but let's better not get into that discussion...

38 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Rhaenys is competent both at court and at the less ladylike stuff like dragonriding, without those two factors feeling too dramatically at odds with each other (the way they were with Arya and Sansa, for example) and seems to be actually respected by people already. There were murmurings of a "female heir is highly unorthadox," but nothing about her not having the education or the disposition or anything.

I think the writers didn't want to put her against too insurmountable odds. She is (probably) going to be the first ruling queen of westeros. That's massive. Giving her much more to overcome would probably make the whole thing unrealistic. So she has to be beloved and good at most things.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

It reminded me of a similar scene, but with different motivations, in I, Claudius.

Me too. Additional I, Claudius fan here. 
 

I do give King Viserys respect for holding his wife’s hand and staying with her rather than leaving the room so he didn’t have to face it. Given the position of the fetus and how her labor is progressing she wasn’t going to make it no matter what, I understand why they wanted to try to save the fetus. 

55 minutes ago, aghst said:

But Inside the Episode, the show runners said that Viserys is made to understand that the wife is dying either way, whether or not they do the C-section.  It's a question of whether the baby could be saved.

They also said they intercut it with the jousting battle, in which a lot of knights with pent-up aggression, because there haven't been any wars for them to fight in, because Emma said birthing heirs is her battlefield -- she also said it would be her last pregnancy, which proved unfortunately prophetic.

Yeah, I made note of that as I was watching and glad they touched on it during their discussion. 

[AntFTW]

1 minute ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I can see that going two ways: 1. her being pissed and conspiring against Rhaenyra. 2. Her being supportive, to help a woman on the throne, something that was denied her, to finally get some progress in that country.

I think it'll be Rhaenys' husband, whose name I do not recall as I type this, that will be the one conspiring the most, if there will be any conspiring against Rhaenyra.

[rollacoaster]

22 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

But, truthfully, I was more bothered by Viserys and his dark facial stubble.

I felt that dark stubble in my soul. 

[MrWhyt]

11 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I was sure he would be disqualified for the illegal move in the jousting match. But apparently you can do whatever the fuck you want and murder willy-nilly during this tourney

being the heir has it's advantages

[thuganomics85]

Didn't quite grab me like the initial Game of Thrones pilot did all those years ago, but it was at least a step above the majority of season eight (which wasn't quite enough to ruin the entire series for me, but, yeah, it had a lot of issues that put a blemish on its potential legacy.)  I do agree with some of the jokes that it currently feels like a Westeros version of Succession, only with dragons, a medieval setting, more nudity (but ironically less profanity), and if the Roy family actually flat-out killed people.

Unsurprisingly, the show has no issues making their leads do terrible things, with the top-billed character basically making his wife suffer in order to have a shot at getting a male heir.  Which ended up not even working, but the whole thing was brutal to watch.  Poor Aemma.  In his own twisted way, I really do think Viserys still loved her and hated doing what he did, but that was beyond pale.  Sitting on the Iron Throne just makes you the worst, apparently.

Speaking of which, I kind of love that after Doctor Who, Matt Smith seems content to just play whatever sneering douchebag character comes his way.  Whatever works, I guess, since he's been getting steady work out of it!  Daemon was a bit one-note, but I enjoyed watching Smith have a blast with it.

The actress playing Rhaenyra was quite good, which 

Spoiler

provokes mixed emotions for me since I know her character and Alicent will be aged up/recast this season.

Didn't recognize Rhys Ifans as Otto Hightower.

I approve of whoever's decision it was to get Graham McTavish to show up in every fantasy-based show possible!

Looks like they decided to dive back into the over-the-top sex/nudity side of GOT, although leaning more towards the extras/secondary characters stripping down instead of any of the leads (for now?)  Of course, all I could think of during the brothel scene was how many cases of blue balls were going on when Daemon interrupted the orgy midway to give a speech. 

Liked getting glimpses of the current Baratheon and Stark lords!

Ramin Djawadi still knows how to score a show!

I do hope we get an actual opening credits going forward since that's something the originals how was always known for!

Overall, solid start at least.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Unsurprisingly, the show has no issues making their leads do terrible things, with the top-billed character basically making his wife suffer in order to have a shot at getting a male heir.  Which ended up not even working, but the whole thing was brutal to watch.  Poor Aemma.  In his own twisted way, I really do think Viserys still loved her and hated doing what he did, but that was beyond pale.  Sitting on the Iron Throne just makes you the worst, apparently.

I mean she died a lot more quickly than she would have otherwise. The only more humane choice would have been to give her an overdose of "milk of the poppy", but we won't even do that for our suffering terminally ill today. So not sure how much we can judge him for not doing that and killing his son the process, who he still thought might live, at that point.

[Daisychain]

1 hour ago, Lady S. said:

Funny, I was thinking what a difference it makes when a show has a big budget from the start. Early GoT skimped on horses whenever they could and their royal tourney didn't look as grand as that one. Why would they blow all their dradon fx budget in the pilot just for gratuititous shots?

Now, the wig budget otoh is truly tragic and apparently never going to improve for this 'verse.

Omigosh, what is the issue with good wigs on screen?  I once read an interview with Jason Isaacs in which he said he was the one to come up with long white-blonde hair for Lucius Malfoy.  So he convinces the director/costumer and they come back with the sort of wig you'd get from Party City or the pop-up Halloween store!  He said he always hoped it wouldn't catch fire and he didn't get anything better until the next movie or two.

[PurpleTentacle]

19 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

being the heir has it's advantages

I doubt that was the reason. Nobody in the crowd looked the least bit put off by the potential rule violation. Compare that to any modern sport and an illegal move or foul. So I have to assume what he did was perfectly legal. Later on people just murdered each other willy-nilly, which also isn't in keeping with your usual tourney rules. It was all just a bit off.

Edited August 22, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[rollacoaster]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do give King Viserys respect for holding his wife’s hand and staying with her rather than leaving the room so he didn’t have to face it. Given the position of the fetus and how her labor is progressing she wasn’t going to make it no matter what, I understand why they wanted to try to save the fetus. 

1 hour ago, aghst said:

But Inside the Episode, the show runners said that Viserys is made to understand that the wife is dying either way, whether or not they do the C-section.  It's a question of whether the baby could be saved.

They also said they intercut it with the jousting battle, in which a lot of knights with pent-up aggression, because there haven't been any wars for them to fight in, because Emma said birthing heirs is her battlefield -- she also said it would be her last pregnancy, which proved unfortunately prophetic.

I understand that a choice had to be made, but any tenderness or regard from the attendants for her as a queen or even a human vanished once it was. I do appreciate that King Viserys held her hand to the end. 

I also understand that kings be desperate for male heirs. I totally believe that King Henry VIII would have totally been fine with sacrificing any one of his wives for a healthy male heir, and definitely wouldn't have been in the room for it. 

Part of me snarks: So, if he'd just made his daughter the heir earlier, could that have spared the queen this pregnancy and thus her life? That young lady has a lot of targets on her back. She has a steely quality that will no doubt benefit her going forward. 

Lord, I am going on about Queen Aemma like she was my bestie, and not a show character I was just introduced to and who didn't even have that much screen time. 

Princess Rhaenys Targaryen must be so sick of that fucking title. 

[MBayGal]

This certainly didn't grab my interest immediately like the first ep of GoT did. I thought it started off rather boring, then went to full-on gore at the tourney.  The childbirth scenes were so painful to watch.  Letting his wife die was a heartbreaking decision for the king, but it would have been a long and painful death if she were unable to give birth naturally. Then to lose the baby so quickly, how tragic. But the political machinations at the end were intriguing and i will be back.  

[CletusMusashi]

OK, this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm still okay with Otto. His advice to the king was consistently good, and he was willing to put his neck out there insulting the king's own brother. The part where he tries to set up his teenaged daughter with the king, though? In modern society, I agree that is a creepy move. But in a society where she's going to be married off to somebody anyway? And money and power are expected to be major factors in that decision? Well, the king is pretty rich and powerful. And, except for that one thing that happened at the very very end, he seemed to be in an actual loving relationship with his first wife, so it's unlikely he'd suddenly turn cruel toward the second one. Also, he's getting up there in years, so she won't have to bang him for that long anyway. And she might even be able to convince him to buy a better quality shaving razor. Within the admittedly lamentable restrictions of a patriarchal pseudomedieval society, it's a winning plan.

Edited August 22, 2022 by CletusMusashi