S02.E15: Waiting For Superman

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Chrissy Beppo, with the authorization of the Department of Defense, has a message for the people of Smallville, not only is the merging of planets real, it is happening.

[BeautifulFlower]

How in the world does the merging cause people to keep switching between Earths?

Awww Nat, Jordan, and Jonathan consider themselves family

"Tal she took my powers. She almost killed me. I don't think you alone could stop her." "Well, what choice do we have?" Her name is Kara? His name is Martian Manhunter? Seriously, are they dead?

"I was foolish to go up against her." Yeah...Clark literally told you what she did to him. 

Ummm.....last episode they established that Ally was merging the Earths through the space in the portal that exists BETWEEN the two Earths. How in the hell did Ally end up in space? Jordan can breath in space?

"There's one more person who can stop her.....ME" What did we just ESTABLISH? Anyway, I kinda figured flying Clark directly into the sun would be something they would come up with.

Why do people keep asking Lana what are they supposed to do? You all see your world constantly flickering. People are disappearing too. What the hell do you want Lana to say? "Grab a gun?"

I don't understand how Lois wasn't going back to her own world while Kyle and Sam did/

"We only have your dad (superman) on this world..." Okay, is this a confirmation that this show doesn't exist in the Arrowverse? If not, these type of lines are getting ridiculous.

The emerging from the sun and whatever the hell Clark did to the other Earth was cool.

I kinda figured Chrissy would be told the secret too, but not in the season. I guess it was leading up to it? Chrissy was frustrated over Lois not telling the whole truth when it came to stories tied to Superman.

Oh my god, Sarah apologized for the thing with Audrey. I'm glad the writers wrote her realizing that trust goes both ways and she never apologized for it.

Oh thank god the whole looking for Kyle thing didn't end up with Kyle and Lana getting back together.

So I guess they're all cool with Tal now? He's on Bizarre Earth now.I guess he'll have a good time. Would he even have a way back to Earth Prime?

Clark don't build a new fortress in the middle of the ocean. Government agencies would literally get access to it. Also, awww he finally let jonathan meet his grandmother (offscreen)

[cambridgeguy]

So, was Clark really all that depowered if he was able to survive the trip to just outside the Sun?  I suppose we should just ignore him and Tal being able to talk in space, since this is hardly the first show to do that.  That being said, Superman getting supercharged was pretty cool. 

Speaking of Tal, it feels like they skipped some steps to get to "I love you bro!" and being the cool uncle. 

Looks like Bruno Manheim and Intergang are going to be the S3 villains. 

[Primal Slayer]

Meh, it wasn't a horrible finale but i was expecting more? Everything wrapped up in a bow. Everyone's happy. I was hoping at least Jonathan would've gotten permanently merged. Ali is locked up just like Tal was last season.

I fight was great but between that and the big reveal...ok.

Not sure why we need both Diggles running around on both shows, he got a pretty completed story over on Arrow.

The constant "only heroes on this earth" thing each show does kills me. Sure it ups the stakes but i want metas, i want WW, even Aquaman would be good with Clark creating a fortress in the middle of no where ocean.

[DanaK]

Interesting that Lucy only had a cameo at the end

I had some trouble understanding what was happening in space. Hopefully a rewatch will help

Fun finale but a little confusing at times

[cdnalor]

So Superman is the only hero on this Earth?  They not only cancelled Supergirl's show, but Supergirl as well?  So I guess we just forget about Superman showing up on Supergirl's show.  Why not just say that Supergirl retired and now lives with her mother in Argo City or planet, I forget which it was.  So much for the merging of all the Earths that was such a big deal.

What was the point of having goth Lois show up just to stand around and do nothing?

[cambridgeguy]

11 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

So Superman is the only hero on this Earth?  They not only cancelled Supergirl's show, but Supergirl as well?  So I guess we just forget about Superman showing up on Supergirl's show.  Why not just say that Supergirl retired and now lives with her mother in Argo City or planet, I forget which it was.  So much for the merging of all the Earths that was such a big deal.

They didn't cancel anyone.  Sam literally says he's seen glimpses of worlds with multiple heroes.  One of those is Earth-Prime with the Kara, Barry, Diggle, etc. from all of the other shows, including a Superman who happens to look exactly like Tyler Hoechlin.  This show takes place on a different Earth, so no more wondering where the heck Kara is whenever something big happens.

[Frozendiva]

I was wondering about the realistic science between both worlds merging and the massive gravitational pull of the alternate earth. The moon possibly exploding or crashing in to the Earth. But this is a show.

I did expect Tal Rho to take Clark to the sun to get recharged. Too bad he ended up on the alternate Earth.

So Ally's merging didn't quite go as planned. Ah well, she can spend time talking to herself for a bit.

Uncle Tal did not need to buy the twins new, expensive trucks.

Glad that Lana did not succumb to doom and automatically take Kyle back.

Why did the alternate Lois just stand on the porch and do nothing?

The battle ended and there just seemed to be too much time left. At least we didn't get a song from Sarah.

Lana and Clark are back to being friends. Liked Chrissy's shock that Lois is married to Superman. All is well in Smallville except for Diggle's file on the man who killed John Henry Irons here on Earth. Guess that is next season's big bad.

Forgot about the new ocean fortress. How will something like, say, oil drilling affect it?

Edited June 29, 2022 by Frozendiva

[GHScorpiosRule]

45 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

This show takes place on a different Earth, so no more wondering where the heck Kara is whenever something big happens

Wait. I thought this show also took place on Earth Prime. We had Diggle show up last season and Lois mentioned Oliver.

As for tonight? LAAAAAAME.

As others stated, scenes of Clark/Supes getting charged by the Sun and destroying Ally was the best. And how come he couldn’t do that before?

And fucking Ally survives to “be with” her Bizarro self?! Where is the justice? BAH!

Eh. I still think Smallville’s season four finale when Clark threw the crystal which created his Fortress of Solitude was the BEST.

And I’m one who thinks Chrissy didn’t need to know about Clark. Did Perry? So is the reasoning now that friends HAVE to know, otherwise they’re just deceitful liars who can’t be trusted? Fuck that noise.

What a slog fest of a lousy second season.

Edited June 29, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[StaceyNotStacie]

This felt more like a series finale than a season finale. Everything was wrapped up with 15 minutes to go and then the celebration afterwards. 
 

I was surprised that Kyle made it out alive. With Tal searching for his Bizarro wife, I wonder if he will try to get together with Lana on Earth or try to bring the other Lana back with him. 

[Lantern7]

I had fun with this finale. I think it's mostly from Flash dragging so hard and the general lunacy of this season. S&L isn't Legends crazy, but it does try. AND they brought in a "Miracle Monday," which was a pretty deep cut for some fans.

1 hour ago, cdnalor said:

So Superman is the only hero on this Earth?  They not only cancelled Supergirl's show, but Supergirl as well?  So I guess we just forget about Superman showing up on Supergirl's show.  Why not just say that Supergirl retired and now lives with her mother in Argo City or planet, I forget which it was.  So much for the merging of all the Earths that was such a big deal.

2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

"Tal she took my powers. She almost killed me. I don't think you alone could stop her." "Well, what choice do we have?" Her name is Kara? His name is Martian Manhunter? Seriously, are they dead?

Clark don't build a new fortress in the middle of the ocean. Government agencies would literally get access to it. Also, awww he finally let jonathan meet his grandmother (offscreen)

My new theory: this series takes place in the future. Clark was surprised at the end of COIE when Lois told him about the twin sons. Maybe S&L is set 10-15 years from the present. It's better than the alternative of the writers shrugging and saying they'll work it out later.

Poor Diggle. From potential Green Lantern to Nick Fury cameo. "John, I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Init- . . . crap . . . the guy that killed the you from this Earth."

I like how BizarroChrissy had made a translator to talk to Lois and Sam . . . and they she blipped out, causing the device to fall and break.

The two Allies are just gonna hang in the same cell? For real? Even with the guarantee that they couldn't combine (or, heaven help us, learn Fusion Dance), it's still a bit weird. Also kinky, but S&L ain't that kind of show.

ETA: At least we got a tease of Stargirl. Pat Dugan is the only guy that can out-dork-dad Clark . . . and I say that with love.

ETA2: Seriously, how is an ocean-based Fortress supposed to be a secret? Maybe the Kents are the only ones that can see the big-ass crystals? I am a bit touched Lara can't wait to meet Jonathan. Also, Clark's sweater. That was funny for me for some reason.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Lantern7

[rtms77]

I must have missed where Tal disappeared or did they insinuate that he took the portal to the other earth? 
So how did Tal and Superman Fire reach Ally in space but JH and Nat reached her in the portal? That did not make sense.

So this Superman is on separate earth? After all the crisis, after all the set up Supergirl and the Arrowverse did to bring this Superman back to the small screen, CW/WB and HBO just said screw them , this is a different show? Yeah no screw This show!

Why make a new Fortress! Was the original one wiped away?

So Intergang and I suppose Darkseid is season 3 villains? Yet another villain Superman can barley beat, and this time he has no back up. 

[statsgirl]

Since this is a different Diggle, I'm assuming that it's a different Earth.

So both the twins are in relationships, and Natalie considers them her family. Happy times.

I hope Ally is dunzo. I think that this is the best of the remaining Arrowverse shows but she overstayed her welcome with me.

Poor Kyle. I think Lana is too tough on him. (I say that as someone who was cheated on.)

15 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I must have missed where Tal disappeared or did they insinuate that he took the portal to the other earth? 

He was on the S&L Earth long enough to arrange the trucks for the twins, then he crossed to the other earth. Is Bizarro Lana still in DOD custody? Because I think that Bizarro Lana would be a good fit fir him.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I must have missed where Tal disappeared or did they insinuate that he took the portal to the other earth?

We just didn't see him after he pushed Clark into the sun.

But he must have found a way to Bizarro Earth after arranging for the trucks to be sent to Jon and Jordan. Which implies the portal in the mines could still be there.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

They didn't cancel anyone.  Sam literally says he's seen glimpses of worlds with multiple heroes.  One of those is Earth-Prime with the Kara, Barry, Diggle, etc. from all of the other shows, including a Superman who happens to look exactly like Tyler Hoechlin.  This show takes place on a different Earth, so no more wondering where the heck Kara is whenever something big happens.

Yes, now we just have to wonder what the heck happened to her pod.

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

even Aquaman would be good with Clark creating a fortress in the middle of no where ocean.

I honestly wondered if Clark was about to introduce the boys to Orin for a moment.

Lois did mention metahumans last season in relation to the school Tag was sent to.

22 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

My new theory: this series takes place in the future. Clark was surprised at the end of COIE when Lois told him about the twin sons. Maybe S&L is set 10-15 years from the present. It's better than the alternative of the writers shrugging and saying they'll work it out later.

Nah, this interview confirms they decided to make it a separate Earth (and that it wasn't their original plan to do so, hence the inconsistencies): https://tvline.com/2022/06/28/superman-lois-arrowverse-connection-explained-finale-interview/

In addition to wondering what happened to Kara in this reality, now we have to wonder what adventures are befalling Clark, Lois and their sons on Earth-Prime, whether Martha is dead there too, and whether Tal-Rho exists there.

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Is Bizarro Lana still in DOD custody? Because I think that Bizarro Lana would be a good fit fir him.

We didn't see whether Lana-Rho and Jon-El stayed in custody, or were zapped back to their Earth when Clark stopped the merging. Or sent back through the portal later.

I hope Intergang is still connected to Darkseid and not made more mundane.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

The emerging from the sun and whatever the hell Clark did to the other Earth was cool.

Heh, my thoughts were "Superman saved the Earths, by doing...  whatever it was he did".  Let's face it, this episode required a LOT of suspension of belief.

At the celebration carnival at the end, there was a kid running around with a helmet and a hammer.  I thought "Why was that kid playing Thor on a DC show?".  Then I realized he was supposed to be Steel.  Oops.  I'm glad John Henry is sticking around, for a moment I thought they were going to trap him in between worlds and write him off the show.  

21 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

I must have missed where Tal disappeared or did they insinuate that he took the portal to the other earth? 

As statsgirl said, he went to the other Earth.  The scene was confusing though, because he was speaking forward English, yet everyone seemed to understand him.  For that matter, Lois was pretty good at understanding the backward English of the Ally double.  I'm sure I couldn't have done it without my closed captioning.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

As others stated, scenes of Clark/Supes getting charged by the Sun and destroying Ally was the best. And how come he couldn’t do that before?

Based on what Lara was saying when she froze last episode, there was some risk of death if he supercharged himself with the sun. If you mean why couldn't he defeat her before, he absorbed much more solar energy than usual and made himself ultrapowerful. Kara did something similar in the last season of Supergirl.

7 minutes ago, rmontro said:

The scene was confusing though, because he was speaking forward English, yet everyone seemed to understand him.

Translation convention. They're talking backwards but we hear it as forwards. Clark was able to speak the local way when he was on Bizarro Earth, and Jon-El could on "normal" Earth. It appears to be something only Kryptonians can do. Although Bizarro Kal-El couldn't do it. Maybe because of his degeneration.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Cthulhudrew]

This finale was only okay for me. It fell kind of flat- I think the writers left too many storylines to try and tie up in one episode. The end result felt like a lot of people standing around and having things happen to them, waiting for a plot Macguffin to level up Superman so he could beat the bad guy and everything's back to normal. I didn't feel the Lana/Clark or Sarah/Jordan storylines really got the resolutions they deserved. I'm not entirely sure what the point was of having Bizarro Lois show up and stand around looking like she was haunting Kent ranch. Did we ever get closure on Bizarro Jon's story (I forget). Plus confusion about whether this is Arrowverse or not (it's got Diggle, but Daddy Lane mentioned this earth only having Superman, so... not sure).

[Noneofyourbusiness]

It also begs the question of how the Oliver of this reality died.

6 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Did we ever get closure on Bizarro Jon's story (I forget).

No. We last saw him being wheeled away in the previous episode along with Bizarro Lana.

6 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Plus confusion about whether this is Arrowverse or not (it's got Diggle, but Daddy Lane mentioned this earth only having Superman, so... not sure).

It's not Earth-Prime. Check the interview I posted above.

[Cthulhudrew]

4 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It's not Earth-Prime. Check the interview I posted above.

Thanks for that; I was just about to start looking around to see if anyone had written anything up.

Kind of a strange way to do it, given some of the prior references, but I'm okay with it. Maybe this means we can get a Green Lantern Diggle in this world?

[ruby24]

Wait, when did Sarah find out about Superman? I thought she just realized that Jordan had powers. Did they really have Lana tell her offscreen?

[Paloma]

My husband and I are both confused about what Superman did to stop the merging. At first we thought that the problem was solved when John Henry and Natalie either closed or destroyed the portal (we are also confused about how that happened). Did Superman stop the merging simply by stopping Ally and forcing her to split apart into Bizarro Ally and Earth Ally? Or did he do something physical like move Bizarro Earth away from our Earth? 

[Avabelle]

I was shocked Kyle survived the finale but now that I think about it I don’t think they want to give Sarah the added angst of losing her father. I think he’ll be written off early next season as leaving town for a fresh start. It’s so obvious the writers have zero interest in him and would prefer to tease Lana/Tal. 

[cdnalor]

5 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Maybe this means we can get a Green Lantern Diggle in this world?

No, I think Ryan Reynolds ruined Green Lantern for the whole multiverse.  For the record, I never thought the movie was bad, just not great.  I thought Reynolds was miscast, though.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

My husband and I are both confused about what Superman did to stop the merging. At first we thought that the problem was solved when John Henry and Natalie either closed or destroyed the portal (we are also confused about how that happened). Did Superman stop the merging simply by stopping Ally and forcing her to split apart into Bizarro Ally and Earth Ally? Or did he do something physical like move Bizarro Earth away from our Earth? 

I’m bot sure why tal rho couldn’t have overpowered himself and in turn overloaded  Ally so she broke apart. Good of superman to save her. My firat thought was ‘omg he’s killed her’. An interesting storyline but no such luck. I also mourn the unpowered Clark storyline. 
 

i think Ally in space was forcing the merging of the planets which eventually would make the portal unnecessary. So a two part plan. 

I think supes may have shoved bizzarro world away from earth a bit. I’d have to watch again. 
 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Affogato

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

Or did he do something physical like move Bizarro Earth away from our Earth? 

He did something to Bizarro Earth and "normal" Earth using his Superman whatever-the-plot-says-he-can-do powers, not un-reminiscent of when movie Superman reversed time by flying backwards.

[legaleagle53]

57 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He did something to Bizarro Earth and "normal" Earth using his Superman whatever-the-plot-says-he-can-do powers, not un-reminiscent of when movie Superman reversed time by flying backwards.

Not by flying backwards. By flying faster than light per the Theory of Relativity. Time-traveling that way was one of his canon comic-book powers during the Silver Age.

[Jediknight]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I’m one who thinks Chrissy didn’t need to know about Clark. Did Perry? So is the reasoning now that friends HAVE to know, otherwise they’re just deceitful liars who can’t be trusted? Fuck that noise.

They don't need to tell Perry, Perry knows Clark is Superman.  He's like Gordon with Batman, he knows who he really is but acts like he doesn't.

Not a fan at all of them retconning this show to not be part of the Beeboverse.  But I was a fan of them nailing what Superman is, when told he could die against Ally he didn't care and said it was a chance he had to take, and Tal admitted that Clark inspired him to do better.  That's who Superman is, that's what makes him the ultimate hero.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Nah, this interview confirms they decided to make it a separate Earth (and that it wasn't their original plan to do so, hence the inconsistencies): https://tvline.com/2022/06/28/superman-lois-arrowverse-connection-explained-finale-interview/

Oh that reasoning is such bullshit. Because most of the shows are no longer on the air? Want to put their own stamp on it? PUHLEAZE. The creators of Black Lightning said the same thing-that their show was going to be separate and it ended up being in the same universe.

Fine, okay, I guess this explains why the color on this show has a septia tinge and isn't as bright as the primary colors should be.

7 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Wait, when did Sarah find out about Superman? I thought she just realized that Jordan had powers. Did they really have Lana tell her offscreen?

We don't know who told her offscreenville; it could have been Jordan. But yeah, it took place offscreen.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Not by flying backwards. By flying faster than light per the Theory of Relativity. Time-traveling that way was one of his canon comic-book powers during the Silver Age.

Sorry, flying until the planet seemed to go backwards.

49 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Not a fan at all of them retconning this show to not be part of the Beeboverse.  But I was a fan of them nailing what Superman is, when told he could die against Ally he didn't care and said it was a chance he had to take, and Tal admitted that Clark inspired him to do better.  That's who Superman is, that's what makes him the ultimate hero.

Which is why claiming that Diggle in "Through the Valley of Death" in Season 1 meant that the other superheroes would say he was "the best of them" because of his powers is such BS:

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that was planned at the time it aired, or there would have been no point in making the reference at all.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[kickingnames]

The way I read that article was that the conversation happened while they were filiming Season 1, but not necessarily before the Diggle references had already been made. So yeah, it’s a plot hole, but it is what it is. I’m fine with the show not being tied directly to the Arrowverse; the big crossovers had a tendency to hamper the individual shows’ story arc for a portion of the season, which got old as the years went on. It would’ve been nice to include Kara here, but I’m not bothered by the lack of connection to the other shows/characters.

Edited June 29, 2022 by kickingnames

[Affogato]

58 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh that reasoning is such bullshit. Because most of the shows are no longer on the air? Want to put their own stamp on it? PUHLEAZE. The creators of Black Lightning said the same thing-that their show was going to be separate and it ended up being in the same universe.

Fine, okay, I guess this explains why the color on this show has a septia tinge and isn't as bright as the primary colors should be.

We don't know who told her offscreenville; it could have been Jordan. But yeah, it took place offscreen.

Maybe she just isn’t an idiot. It isn’t a huge leap if you see Jordan’s powers. It might be the drug but Jordan didn’t present the powers that way. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, rtms77 said:

I must have missed where Tal disappeared or did they insinuate that he took the portal to the other earth? 
So how did Tal and Superman Fire reach Ally in space but JH and Nat reached her in the portal? That did not make sense.

So this Superman is on separate earth? After all the crisis, after all the set up Supergirl and the Arrowverse did to bring this Superman back to the small screen, CW/WB and HBO just said screw them , this is a different show? Yeah no screw This show!

Why make a new Fortress! Was the original one wiped away?

So Intergang and I suppose Darkseid is season 3 villains? Yet another villain Superman can barley beat, and this time he has no back up. 

I think one has to fanwank a little. Perhaps Ally relocated to outer space after JHI tried to intervene. Or perhaps the merging of the worlds needed to be done in stages where the first stage was done in the void and the second needed to be done in "real space" as the merging was more complete.

Clark's original fortress still exists, He gave the coordinates to it Anderson.  Which in and of itself might be reason enough to not use it. Its location has been compromised. Tal-Rho's Fortress exists, but its location is at least known to some I believe. Two things that creating the new Fortress of Family accomplishes: no one besides the four of them know it exists (for now) and supposedly, all four of them will have equal access to it. Hypothetically, it will be built for their joint needs as opposed to just Clark's. 

I wonder if Intergang is behind the xK operation we saw this season.

Background about Intergang as it exists in comics and cartoons probaly should be spoiler-tagged.

Because Intergang has been linked to Darkseid in the comics and the cartoons doesn't mean that it is in this show. The 90s Lois and Clark had Intergang that was purely made of human criminals. Even if Darkseid is connected to this Intergang, it doesn't mean that the Big Guy will show up in person next season or that his power level won't be adjusted so that a whole Justice League is needed to defeat him.

[cambridgeguy]

43 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Two things that creating the new Fortress of Family accomplishes: no one besides the four of them know it exists (for now) and supposedly, all four of them will have equal access to it. Hypothetically, it will be built for their joint needs as opposed to just Clark's. 

Although there is still the little technicality of Lois and Jon needing either Clark or Jordan to take them there unless this new and improved version has some sort of teleportation device that neither Clark nor Tal thought would be worth installing in their versions.

51 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Maybe she just isn’t an idiot. It isn’t a huge leap if you see Jordan’s powers. It might be the drug but Jordan didn’t present the powers that way. 

Plus Clark "went away on assignment" at the exact same time Superman vanished.  The clues are there for anyone who really wants to look. 

[TiffanyNichelle]

It really bothers me that Chrissy now knows about Clark. Lana finding out is one thing. They have been friends since they were kids. But Chrissy barely knows him. Even Lois said she was dating him for months before she found out and his own sons didn't know until last year. So why does Chrissy need to know? I have never been a fan of "tell me all your personal secrets or you're dead to me" storytelling. At this point he might as well give up his secret identity and tell the whole world.

I also hate that they wimped out and spun this off to its own universe because it was easier than coming up with explanations for why none of the other heroes are available to help.

[statsgirl]

3 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

It really bothers me that Chrissy now knows about Clark. Lana finding out is one thing. They have been friends since they were kids. But Chrissy barely knows him.

It's about Chrissy's relationship with Lois. Much of the season was about whether Chrissy could trust Lois because she knew that Lois was hiding things from her.

Sarah is a smart kid. She could have put the pieces together between Jordan having flying powers and his dad. Or Lana or Jordan could have told her offscreenville.

I have such a problem remembering that the twins are 15 because they both look older. Not surprising, since the actors are 18 and 20. So is Sarah but the actress pulls it off better.

"Intergang" is a stupid name for a Big Bad organization. Is it from the comics?

[Chicago Redshirt]

45 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Although there is still the little technicality of Lois and Jon needing either Clark or Jordan to take them there unless this new and improved version has some sort of teleportation device that neither Clark nor Tal thought would be worth installing in their versions.

I want to say Jonathan mentioned something about how you would need powers to get to Fortress 2.0 and Clark said they wouldn't. So there is presumably a teleporter-like device that will let them get there or some other form of specialized transport. Hypothetically, there is no reason that the transport system wasn't implemented/couldn't going forward be implemented in the previous fortresses. 

In a world where JHI/Natalie have suits that seem capable of flying around the world in mere minutes and spaceships are almost certainly a thing, I don't suppose it would be too difficult for there to be a cloaked shuttle or something. (I would point to precedent for teleportation in the Arrowverse, but that's no longer relevant).

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It's about Chrissy's relationship with Lois. Much of the season was about whether Chrissy could trust Lois because she knew that Lois was hiding things from her.

Sarah is a smart kid. She could have put the pieces together between Jordan having flying powers and his dad. Or Lana or Jordan could have told her offscreenville.

I have such a problem remembering that the twins are 15 because they both look older. Not surprising, since the actors are 18 and 20. So is Sarah but the actress pulls it off better.

"Intergang" is a stupid name for a Big Bad organization. Is it from the comics?

What's messed up IMO: Chrissy knows Clark is Superman. Lucy, as far as we know, has no clue. I suppose she could, but it would have made way more sense if she had known that she would have ratted Clark's secret out to Ally.

I might be misremembering but did Sarah actually watch Jordan fly? I thought she only saw that he had glowy eyes and then ran off. 

Intergang is from the comics and at least some of the cartoons. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It's about Chrissy's relationship with Lois. Much of the season was about whether Chrissy could trust Lois because she knew that Lois was hiding things from her.

Big Whoop. So Lois is hiding stuff from her. So in Superhero World, everyone has to tell everyone everything? No one is allowed to keep certain things to themselves? Chrissy was such a squeally  fangurrrl when she met Lois, and I don't believe she could keep a lid on who Clark is in one of those moments. Again, giving me vibes and hives of the Pink Pestilince's "sekriths and lieths" from another Earth and Show.

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I might be misremembering but did Sarah actually watch Jordan fly? I thought she only saw that he had glowy eyes and then ran off. 

Nope. Just the red glowing eyes.

Edited June 30, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Big Whoop. So Lois is hiding stuff from her. So in Superhero World, everyone has to tell everyone everything? No one is allowed to keep certain things to themselves? Chrissy was such a sqeally fangurrrl when she met Lois, and I don't believe she could keep a lid on who Clark is in one of those moments. Again, giving me vibes and hives of the Pink Pestilince's "sekriths and lieths" from another Earth and Show.

There really are few internal reasons why Lois should tell Chrissy. 

BUT it does mean that of the regulars, the only character who does not know the secret (as far as we know) is Kyle. It could be that he has gotten told/gets told in Offscreenville by Lana or Sarah (Sophie I guess doesn't know). Or it could be that he's on his way out as a character. Or it could be that they are getting ready to make him more of an antagonist. Honestly, I found the character more interesting when he was the abrasive Morgan Edge fanboy than as a woobie separated dad who's trying to make amends for how sucky he's been as a husband and dad.

Reducing the number of characters who might potentially whine about secrets and lies by to 1 is fine by me, even if it doesn't make a lick of narrative/character sense.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Chicago Redshirt

[blackwing]

Despite all of the wrapping up of the storylines, I was left with two huge disappointments.

1) Jonathan Kent did not get powers.  Alternatively, Jon El did not stay on this world and become good.  I think the actor would have had a blast playing "twins", one normal, one punkish and powered.

2) Why oh why couldn't Ally have been blown to smithereens when Superman smashed her?  Why did he have to rescue them?  How did they breathe in space once they lost their powers?  Just let them plummet to earth and die.  I think it's a huge mistake to let them be in the same cell.  The way they are holding hands signifies to me that their story might not be done.  Which irritates me because I absolutely cannot stand this character.

16 hours ago, rtms77 said:

I must have missed where Tal disappeared or did they insinuate that he took the portal to the other earth? 
So how did Tal and Superman Fire reach Ally in space but JH and Nat reached her in the portal? That did not make sense.

16 hours ago, statsgirl said:

He was on the S&L Earth long enough to arrange the trucks for the twins, then he crossed to the other earth. Is Bizarro Lana still in DOD custody? Because I think that Bizarro Lana would be a good fit fir him.

I'm confused about exactly what happened in space but it seems evident he is now on Bizarro World.  Everything is backwards, the sun is red, and he asks who his wife is.  I have to assume that when the worlds were merging that Jon El and Lana Rho blipped out of DoD custody and back to Bizarro World.

13 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Wait, when did Sarah find out about Superman? I thought she just realized that Jordan had powers. Did they really have Lana tell her offscreen?

It evidently indeed must have happened during the commercial break.

9 hours ago, Paloma said:

My husband and I are both confused about what Superman did to stop the merging. At first we thought that the problem was solved when John Henry and Natalie either closed or destroyed the portal (we are also confused about how that happened). Did Superman stop the merging simply by stopping Ally and forcing her to split apart into Bizarro Ally and Earth Ally? Or did he do something physical like move Bizarro Earth away from our Earth? 

I'm still confused about it and I just watched it.  We saw an image of spherical Earth and cube Bizarro World merged.  Superman flew around the worlds very very fast (in a original Superman movie turn-back-time way) but I don't think he was turning back time, he seemed to just be gathering speed.  Then he collided onto one of the worlds and perhaps pushed them apart?  I too thought that John Henry and Natalie had put their power into the ship which may or may not have been carrying some kind of doohickey that flew into the portal and destroyed it.  

The fact that Tal Rho was able to end up on Bizarro World seems to indicate that the portal is not closed?

[norcalgal]

19 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Clark don't build a new fortress in the middle of the ocean. Government agencies would literally get access to it. 

See my comment below about the new fortress.

18 hours ago, cdnalor said:

What was the point of having goth Lois show up just to stand around and do nothing?

No kidding. Why even bother having Bizarro Lois come to Earth (whatever version of Earth the show portrays)???

18 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Forgot about the new ocean fortress. How will something like, say, oil drilling affect it?

17 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

ETA2: Seriously, how is an ocean-based Fortress supposed to be a secret? 

Wouldn't ANYONE be able to reach/enter the new Fortress so long as they are in that area? Deep sea fishermen, ocean-going cargo vessels, etc.?!  It's not exactly hidden!  I understand wanting to have a Fortress the entire family can go to, but to make it reasonably accessible on Earth is so shortsighted.  Once the location is discovered by random humans, what's to stop them from giving away the location? 

9 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I was shocked Kyle survived the finale 

I was surprised no one of consequence died!!!  So much for an apocalyptic event if pretty much everyone survived/wasn't replaced with their Bizarro version.  

29 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Despite all of the wrapping up of the storylines, I was left with two huge disappointments.

1) Jonathan Kent did not get powers.  Alternatively, Jon El did not stay on this world and become good.  I think the actor would have had a blast playing "twins", one normal, one punkish and powered.

2) Why oh why couldn't Ally have been blown to smithereens when Superman smashed her?  Why did he have to rescue them?  How did they breathe in space once they lost their powers?  Just let them plummet to earth and die.  I think it's a huge mistake to let them be in the same cell.  The way they are holding hands signifies to me that their story might not be done.  Which irritates me because I absolutely cannot stand this character.

PREACH!  Esp. the part I bolded.

[Paloma]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I have such a problem remembering that the twins are 15 because they both look older. Not surprising, since the actors are 18 and 20. So is Sarah but the actress pulls it off better.

I know it's not important to the main plotline(s), but it really bothers me that all 3 of these 15-year-olds (who are presumably freshmen in high school) have been given cars and are or will soon be driving them. I realize that Smallville is in a fairly rural area and that this may not be our world, but AFAIK no teen in the US can get a full license until at least 16. Some states do allow learner's permits or restricted licenses at a younger age, but kids generally are not allowed to drive without supervision until they get the full license. 

Aside from whatever the law is, it is pretty irresponsible to give a 15-year-old a shiny new car (or even a shiny old car, as I think Sarah got) in light of the high accident rate of teenagers because of their inexperience and their tendency to use alcohol and drugs with friends (yes, even good kids do this at times). I was glad to see that Clark was letting the boys know that they may not be able to drive the cars right away, but you just know that prohibition will not last long. 

The other thing that really bothered me, somewhat related to the plotline, was seeing Jonathan at the festivities with the same girlfriend. She's still a drug dealer, right? I never fully believed her sob story about having to deal drugs to help her father or family financially, but even if that's true I want him to be with someone more honest who will not use him.

[blackwing]

10 minutes ago, norcalgal said:

Wouldn't ANYONE be able to reach/enter the new Fortress so long as they are in that area? Deep sea fishermen, ocean-going cargo vessels, etc.?!  It's not exactly hidden!  I understand wanting to have a Fortress the entire family can go to, but to make it reasonably accessible on Earth is so shortsighted.  Once the location is discovered by random humans, what's to stop them from giving away the location? 

Yes, this is so stupid.  Why would the fortress need to be accessible by the non-fliers if the fliers aren't with them?  Let's just assume it's somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.  How are Lois and Jon supposed to get there on their own?  "Ummm Mom I feel like going to the fortress and visiting Grandma.  Let's book a flight to LA, connect to Tahiti, then charter a seaplane.  It'll take us a day and a half to get there, but pack your bags!"

What was the issue with the existing fortress, was it that it was in the Arctic and too far and too cold?  If Lois and Jon wanted to visit, couldn't Natalie have designed some kind of travelling capsule, and Clark just fly the whole capsule there?

The only saving grace of this ocean Fortress is if Aquaman shows up next season.  Or if next season has some mutant sharks attacking the fortress, Deep Blue Sea-style.  

Edited June 29, 2022 by blackwing

[Frozendiva]

The Fortress can be used as a sort of Bermuda Triangle.

Worn on TV had Jonathan’s red hoodie as Madison Margiela and $720 original price. I don’t see many parents spending that kind of cash on their teen’s wardrobe, at least not regularly.

Those trucks are not cheap and would cost a lot of money to insure. Licenses here are now graduated and new drivers can do only so much.

[tennisgurl]

I guess this is confirmation that this show takes place on a different Earth than Earth Prime, which just so happens to also have a Superman and a John Diggle and an Oliver Queen but no Kara or Barry or other powered heroes. That's really confusing and not at all consistent with what has been previously established and seems like a real waste when we could check in on characters like Kara who's shows have ended, but at least we have an answer now. This finale, like the season, had some real flaws, but I still really enjoyed it. Ally outstayed her welcome as a villain, but I still thought everyone with Bizarro World was interesting and fun, the family dynamics, now with Natalie and John Henry, were as good as ever, and I thought the last big fight with Clark powering up was pretty awesome. After so many Arrowverse heroes constantly getting pushed around by bad guys they should easily be able to defeat, it was great to see him really get to cut loose on her. The logistics of the ocean based fortress are mind boggling, but its a nice gesture. Clark and Jon really need to have a talk though.

I would normally be confused by how Clark and Tal can breath in space, but Superman can always breath in space, so I guess its a Kryptonian thing. I hope that Tal can come back from messing around in Bizzaro world, he would be fun to have pop up every once in awhile. Cool uncle Tal who buys the boys overly expensive presents while Clark gives a long suffering sigh.

I wish they had actually had Bizzaro Lois actually do something, or use Bizzaro Chrissy's translator to do something, it seems like those characters ended up getting wasted. The Corpse Bride joke was funny though, as is thinking of Tal watching Corpse Bride in his cell, or finding it on Netflix in wherever he has been. 

Miracle Monday is a very deep cut, nice way to wrap the season up. 

Poor Diggle, downgraded from potential Green Lantern to glorified errand boy.

[Diapason Untuned]

7 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that was planned at the time it aired, or there would have been no point in making the reference at all.

This is basically exactly waht happened with the Marvel Netflix shows and Agents of SHIELD. They're just retconning stuff so it's no longer part of the shared universe.

Part of me is wondering if the showrunners had heard about the possibility of the sale earlier than everyone else, thus the pretending like it wasn't in the Arrowverse since early on.

[norcalgal]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I hope that Tal can come back from messing around in Bizzaro world, he would be fun to have pop up every once in awhile.

Yes, as I previously posted, I wouldn't mind Tal appearing on the show every now and then. But this does bring up something:  the DOD thought they were releasing Tal just for the specific mission of stopping Ally, right? How does Clark/Superman explain why Tal is now on the loose instead of being locked up a la Wonder Twin Ally?

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

2) Why oh why couldn't Ally have been blown to smithereens when Superman smashed her?  Why did he have to rescue them?  How did they breathe in space once they lost their powers?  Just let them plummet to earth and die.  I think it's a huge mistake to let them be in the same cell.  The way they are holding hands signifies to me that their story might not be done.  Which irritates me because I absolutely cannot stand this character.

For better or worse, most non-Zack Snyder incarnations of Superman will not kill and will not allow even bad guys to die if they can help it. Also they can always repower her if they are desperate for a villain and want to bring her back. I am irritated too. I think Ally cult leader was at least somewhat interesting. Ally supervillain was boring boring boring because it required Clark and co. to be pretty dense.

2 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Wouldn't ANYONE be able to reach/enter the new Fortress so long as they are in that area? Deep sea fishermen, ocean-going cargo vessels, etc.?!  It's not exactly hidden!  I understand wanting to have a Fortress the entire family can go to, but to make it reasonably accessible on Earth is so shortsighted.  Once the location is discovered by random humans, what's to stop them from giving away the location? 

I was surprised no one of consequence died!!!  So much for an apocalyptic event if pretty much everyone survived/wasn't replaced with their Bizarro version.  

I'm assuming Fortress 2.0 has some level of cloaking that is going to prevent people from stumbling on it and physical defenses to prevent people from strolling in if they happen to.

It makes sense that no one of consequence dies because that's pretty much the franchise. Other than Ma and Pa Kent (and I think that in the various incarnations, they have only died of old age/disease), I don't think Clark has permanently lost anyone close to him once he took up the Superman mantle. (OK, there's H. James "Jimmy" Olsen in Smallville. I will never not be bitter about that B.S.)

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

I know it's not important to the main plotline(s), but it really bothers me that all 3 of these 15-year-olds (who are presumably freshmen in high school) have been given cars and are or will soon be driving them. I realize that Smallville is in a fairly rural area and that this may not be our world, but AFAIK no teen in the US can get a full license until at least 16. Some states do allow learner's permits or restricted licenses at a younger age, but kids generally are not allowed to drive without supervision until they get the full license. 

Aside from whatever the law is, it is pretty irresponsible to give a 15-year-old a shiny new car (or even a shiny old car, as I think Sarah got) in light of the high accident rate of teenagers because of their inexperience and their tendency to use alcohol and drugs with friends (yes, even good kids do this at times). I was glad to see that Clark was letting the boys know that they may not be able to drive the cars right away, but you just know that prohibition will not last long. 

The other thing that really bothered me, somewhat related to the plotline, was seeing Jonathan at the festivities with the same girlfriend. She's still a drug dealer, right? I never fully believed her sob story about having to deal drugs to help her father or family financially, but even if that's true I want him to be with someone more honest who will not use him.

In real-world Kansas, 14 and 15-year-olds can get farm permits that allow them to drive to do farm stuff and to and from school with other restrictions that I'm sure never get ignored. 15 year olds can get restricted licenses if they have had permits for a year.

https://www.ksrevenue.gov/dovgdl.html

Jonathan and Jordan have been drinking a lot in the two seasons. But the ongoing theme is that for being the world's most powerful man, Clark is pretty much a softy as a dad. They totally are going to be keeping and driving those cars.

I think we are supposed to take Candice at her word that she was only dealing for lack of choice, and further to assume given her experiences she is not about that life any more.

We'll see if she gets to do more than be shady in S3, or if she gets broken up with in Offscreenville like Jon's previous girlfriend.

I'm just happy that Jonathan got about as happy an ending for him as he could short of him getting powered up. His family's intact and happy. He's finally getting treated as equal to Jordan despite his lack of powers and will get access to his AI grandmother and to learn about Kryptonian tech. His girlfriend's in the picture. 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes, this is so stupid.  Why would the fortress need to be accessible by the non-fliers if the fliers aren't with them?  Let's just assume it's somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.  How are Lois and Jon supposed to get there on their own?  "Ummm Mom I feel like going to the fortress and visiting Grandma.  Let's book a flight to LA, connect to Tahiti, then charter a seaplane.  It'll take us a day and a half to get there, but pack your bags!"

What was the issue with the existing fortress, was it that it was in the Arctic and too far and too cold?  If Lois and Jon wanted to visit, couldn't Natalie have designed some kind of travelling capsule, and Clark just fly the whole capsule there?

The only saving grace of this ocean Fortress is if Aquaman shows up next season.  Or if next season has some mutant sharks attacking the fortress, Deep Blue Sea-style.  

Hopefully when S3 bows, they will explain how Jonathan and Lois can get there on their own. Teleportation or stealth transport would make the most sense. The existing fortress's location is now known to the DOD and was designed to meet Clark's needs. The new fortress is only known to the four of them and presumably is being created with the needs of the four of them in mind. Also, OG Fortress seemed to be run by AI-Jor-El, who was destroyed, so it may not even be fully functioning. (Yes, it makes no sense why they could not just get an AI Jor-El backup online). 

The real world answer is they probably got enough money/buy-in to build Fortress 2.0 sets.

1 hour ago, Frozendiva said:

Those trucks are not cheap and would cost a lot of money to insure. Licenses here are now graduated and new drivers can do only so much.

I've half-joked that the Kent insurance agent must be a very nervous person because the family blows up vehicles, runs them into supervillains and gets into accidents on the regular. "What do you mean, they got two new trucks?"

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Translation convention. They're talking backwards but we hear it as forwards. Clark was able to speak the local way when he was on Bizarro Earth, and Jon-El could on "normal" Earth. It appears to be something only Kryptonians can do.

And apparently they taught Lois.  Someone earlier wasn't sure what world the scene with Tal was taking place on, so while the translation is convenient, it can lead to some confusion.  I'd prefer they just provide subtitles, unless they're planning on spending a LOT of time on Bizarro Earth next season (I hope not).

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I would normally be confused by how Clark and Tal can breath in space, but Superman can always breath in space, so I guess its a Kryptonian thing.

This is splitting hairs, but technically they don't breath in space (there's no air), they don't have to breathe at all.  Or they can survive long periods of time without taking a breath.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

"Intergang" is a stupid name for a Big Bad organization. Is it from the comics?

Yes, they're a gang known for trafficking weapons that really come from Apokolips. They've appeared in the old animated shared universe and in the Young Justice TV series, too. Which is excellent and I highly recommend it. The character arcs blow the Arrowverse out of the water, and everyone actually gets mandatory therapy and counseling semi-regularly. The showrunner is Greg Weisman (creator of Gargoyles and also showrunner of The Spectacular Spider-Man, the first season of Star Wars Rebels and the second season of W.I.T.C.H.).

Edited June 30, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Noneofyourbusiness]

11 hours ago, kickingnames said:

The way I read that article was that the conversation happened while they were filiming Season 1, but not necessarily before the Diggle references had already been made.

The quote in the tweet claims they were "really careful with the wording" back then, which I don't buy.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness