S12.E05: In Hot Water

[Straycat80]

I watched WWHL and Crystal was on and said Sutton had said something else ‘dark’ and that they talked about it privately and Sutton apologized to her. Will we find out what else was said, who knows. At this point I’m ignoring anything Crystal says, as someone unthread said she seems to be looking for problems and if there isn’t any she’ll create some. 
It was funny that they did three polls asking viewers if they were on Sutton or Crystals side on certain things like words and things Crystal was offended about and everyone voted in Sutton’s favor. 

[SweetieDarling]

I think I'm starting to be triggered by the word "triggered" UGH!

[duni]

13 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

My white child in a pool with a black child and a Asian child in the jucuzzi and a red headed Irish catholic child and I said this is how it’s supposed to be 

is it ill worded yes but I’m not seeing “dark” in that .. but maybe I’m missing something.. and I could be …

I wouldn't call it dark, but I did fine it cringey.  She said "Chinese," not "Asian," and if she didn't know the redhead she assumed his/her nationality and religion.  Additionally, that description left only her child as "white" for some reason.

She seemed way too aware of the races and ethnicities of the occupants of her pool, when there were actually just 4 CHILDREN there.  And she seemed to want a prize for her inclusiveness.  Her statement that "this is the way it should be" sounded like virtue signaling. JMO.

[Keywestclubkid]

Just now, duni said:

I wouldn't call it dark, but I did fine it cringey.  She said "Chinese," not "Asian," and if she didn't know the redhead she assumed his/her nationality and religion.  Additionally, that description left only her child as "white" for some reason.

She seemed way too aware of the races and ethnicities of the occupants of her pool, when there were actually just 4 CHILDREN there.  And she seemed to want a prize for her inclusiveness.  Her statement that "this is the way it should be" sounded like virtue signaling. JMO.

Like I said it was ILL worded 100% and at the time apparently Sutton and Crystal worked through it ... when she said DARK we ALL went with the worse cast scenario and while it is and was tone deaf it wasn't meant with Malice ... Crystal getting upset with Garcelle for not clutching her pearls and being upset at it as much as she was was really interesting to me ... so when CRYSTAL is upset then every POC should feel the same way and if they dont then they are wrong? Im kinda lost on that part  

[pasdetrois]

54 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

And her "I know, these are big words" comment was so condescending.

Every once in a while she drops the victim demeanor and shows her true self.

This self-absorbed gold digger is an elitist snob.

[chlban]

13 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Every once in a while she drops the victim demeanor and shows her true self.

This self-absorbed gold digger is an elitist snob.

This. She really needs to go. No one should trust her any more than they trust the Coven. Can anyone say "bitch desperately needed a storyline"?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I complained that Diana never wears colour and then she shows up to Kyle's house dressed up like a sofa!

I think there are a couple of issues at play here with the whole Sutton thing.

Garcelle has dealt with a lot of racism, and she bats realllllllllllllllly hard for Sutton.  She's not going to find Sutton offensive. 

Crystal is obviously really sensitive, and I can relate to her.  We've dealt with some racism, but not at the level of Garcelle.  She's going to find Sutton's theatrics really annoying.  For example, Sutton bursting into tears at that cabin.  That was incredibly fake and such a cliche where a white woman resorts to tears if a woman of colour confronts her.  It's happened on so many reality shows and in real life obviously.  

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[lilmarysunshine]

11 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I don't watch WWHL, but heard Crystal now claims that the "dark comment" was something else entirely.

Why is she so thirsty? Her husband is RICH. Many people would be thrilled with that kind of financial security and would just enjoy that life with their families. 

She can leave now. Was it with Yolanda and Munchausen’s that this franchise started beating these things to death?  I started watching during that season. To me, the constant manufactured drama over slight things that were said is not compelling television. 

[lilmarysunshine]

1 hour ago, duni said:

She seemed way too aware of the races and ethnicities of the occupants of her pool, when there were actually just 4 CHILDREN there.  And she seemed to want a prize for her inclusiveness.  Her statement that "this is the way it should be" sounded like virtue signaling. JMO.

Because that is the world we live in. At the time, Crystal had been grilling her about her attitudes towards race. She was defensive because Crystal put her in that position. 

eta: She was just criticized by Crystal for being one of those people who claimed she “didn’t see race.”  So she can’t win with Crystal. If she doesn’t notice race she is “One of those people” and when she does notice race, it is “problematic.”

Edited June 9, 2022 by lilmarysunshine

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Why is she so thirsty? Her husband is RICH. Many people would be thrilled with that kind of financial security and would just enjoy that life with their families. 

She can leave now. Was it with Yolanda and Munchausen’s that this franchise started beating these things to death?  I started watching during that season. To me, the constant manufactured drama over slight things that were said is not compelling television. 

remember the season long "pantygate" I mean a whole season fighting over someone not wearing panties ONE time 

[RoseAllDay]

10 hours ago, lawrbk said:

Listening is key. I’ve mentioned on another post that I’m a 51 year old white woman. In our day (lol I sound ancient) we were taught that was the ‘liberal’ thing. To not see color, that being colorblind was the goal. If you were white and noticed color it was underlying racism. You wouldn’t even be able to describe what a micro aggression may be. We’re in a different place now. Now we actually hear FROM BIPOC what should/shouldn’t be considered racist. And, as Garcelle said, if you don’t see color, you don’t see her. As well as noting that it’s white people who have the privilege to say they don’t see color. So I absolutely get where Kathy and Sutton were coming from in the ‘not seeing color’ discussion last season. It’s what they were told their whole lives was the ‘right’ way. But there’s a whole new world of discussion out there and I think Sutton, at least, is open to it. I imagine she’s had some great conversations with Garcelle. Who, by the way, has done more to explain some of these issues then she’s been given credit for. Certainly in comparison to the RHONYC implosion.  

I’m going to be blunt here.

To be honest, I think Crystal is a hateful person. Crystal knows full well Sutton’s intent, and is using race as a weapon to get back at her. It’s insulting, it’s disgusting, and it should be called out. That’s why, I think, Crystal’s been so cagey about coming out and saying what was so “dark” about the comments — once it’s out there, she loses it as leverage. I think she’s counting on the others to assume the worst, merely because of Sutton’s age, who she is, and where she’s from. That is also disgusting, insulting — and prejudiced.

Everything Crystal is doing has the potential to do a lot of harm to Sutton, and I give the women credit for recognizing that.

Sutton is open to learning. She’s apologized a gazillion times to Crystal, but no matter what she does it’s obvious it will never be enough. It will just be something else with Crystal. That Sutton continues to want a friendship is either generosity or gullibility, but either way she needs to watch out.

I’ve officially gone into “loathing” territory with Crystal Kung Minkoff. She is a bigger bully than Erika — at least Erika makes no pretense of friendship while stabbing you in the back.

 

[IntrovertRed]

31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Garcelle has dealt with a lot of racism, and she bats realllllllllllllllly hard for Sutton.  She's not going to find Sutton offensive. 

While I do feel Garcelle is on Sutton's side because they are close, I also strongly think that Garcelle would absolutely not put up with anything racially offensive from Sutton.  She is a good friend, that is clear, but I do think she wouldn't ignore serious issues.  

I just wonder if Crystal is lying, if not, come out with all that Sutton said (since she said there's more on WWHL last night).  

Erika loves all this attention being on others.  Where is that karma?!!!

Also, if Lois had Rinna in 1963, then Lois would have been 36, so very likely.  Although I wouldn't doubt that Rinna was born in 58 or 59.  

[Mar]

11 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

I am putting Crystal in a time out corner for right now.

She needs to apologize to Sutton and stop with her "words" narrative and then she can come back to the sandbox, if not she needs to take her sand shovel and bucket of sand and go home and play in her own yard by herself.

It is incredibly damaging to put out there and imply that someone might be a racist. This is the second time that Crystal has done that and solely based on fairly innocuous statements from Sutton. Once that implication is out there, there are always people who will believe it and judge her based on nothing.

I really don’t like the social media thing of team one versus team two when it comes to pitting women against each other, but I saw this on Instagram this morning.

[Mar]

4 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

What a piece of garbage Crystal is to tell Garcelle these are big words—now it could be said that’s about the most racist thing said so far Crystal…

Yes!

[duni]

51 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Because that is the world we live in. At the time, Crystal had been grilling her about her attitudes towards race. She was defensive because Crystal put her in that position. 

eta: She was just criticized by Crystal for being one of those people who claimed she “didn’t see race.”  So she can’t win with Crystal. If she doesn’t notice race she is “One of those people” and when she does notice race, it is “problematic.”

Don't get me wrong, I think Crystal is a PITA and it's obvious she's searching for her season's "crisis."  Ha!  She's up against professional victim Dorit so she needs to up her game. Given a choice between Sutton and Crystal, I'd have a cocktail or 2 with Sutton!  She seems like fun underneath it all.

[RealHousewife]

9 hours ago, film noire said:

And it annoys me no end that she carries around her own issues, with no self awareness (see: Crystal trying to shame and mock Garcelle re: "Rorschach" - "I know! These are big words!" - beyond ugly. And for the record: you are not superior to Garcelle in any way,  Crystal,  so just zip it). 

I hated that too. Even though she isn't a show-off about it, Garcelle is fluent in three languages. She is an intelligent woman and deserves respect. 

1 hour ago, duni said:

I wouldn't call it dark, but I did fine it cringey.  She said "Chinese," not "Asian," and if she didn't know the redhead she assumed his/her nationality and religion.  Additionally, that description left only her child as "white" for some reason.

She seemed way too aware of the races and ethnicities of the occupants of her pool, when there were actually just 4 CHILDREN there.  And she seemed to want a prize for her inclusiveness.  Her statement that "this is the way it should be" sounded like virtue signaling. JMO.

She was talking about her kids' friends right? She probably knew at least some of their backgrounds. I can't picture Sutton referring to all Asians as Chinese. 

Haha, so she SAW COLOR?! JK. My impression was Sutton thought it was a beautiful thing for her kids to have friends of different colors/backgrounds. What she said may have sounded awkward, but I saw nothing dark there at all. I agree with the post there was kindness to her words and saying we shouldn't all be so divided. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, RoseAllDay said:

Everything Crystal is doing has the potential to do a lot of harm to Sutton, and I give the women credit for recognizing that.

Racism is also harmful.   It's interesting when people view calling out racial ignorance, or even racism, as so evil, but don't want to delve into what might potentially be a learning experience.  Not everyone believes that calling out racism is more harmful than racism itself.  Talking about it openly might even be helpful.  

Talking about race openly is not dividing people.   Wanting children of all races to hang out together like a Benetton ad is not exactly a nuanced sophisticated take on the world.  I guess Sutton was trying to be nice, but it's fine for Crystal to find it condescending. For example, a lot of people have racist experiences, even as children, and wanting to be close to others who won't do that to them is not 'being divided' but rather self-protecting.  

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[pasdetrois]

7 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Garcelle is fluent in three languages. She is an intelligent woman and deserves respect. 

I give Garcelle the side-eye sometimes - after all, she chooses to be on a reality TV show - but I'm thrilled she's having some success. I love that she is building her own modest beach house - none of this 10K square feet nonsense.

[Ms Blue Jay]

56 minutes ago, RoseAllDay said:

I think she’s counting on the others to assume the worst, merely because of Sutton’s age, who she is, and where she’s from. That is also disgusting, insulting — and prejudiced.

There are just so many assumptions being made here that I have seen no evidence of.

Crystal should join Bling Empire.  The audience of this particular show is nasty to her (the WWHL polls, she's received hateful messages on social media, etc.)  It's sad, and on the show, she also has no one in her corner.  

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[bichonblitz]

15 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

In other words, Dorit is late as usual.

She will get a pass all season for what ever she does. I remember a few seasons ago Kyle would have had a meltdown because Dorit was using too much glam and always late! This season, no prob!

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 hours ago, bencr said:

If Sutton had said "I try not to see color" rather than "I don't see color" the reaction would have been totally different. I would hate to be in a friend group where you have to parse your words so carefully.

Crystal should be allowed to say she had a conversation with Sutton when she first met her that made her uncomfortable. Which she has restated.  This episode.  Word for word.  Without people saying Oh she's trying to assassinate Sutton's character.

I would hate to be in a friend group where I'm never allowed to express discomfort.

Oh now I'm at the end of the episode and Sutton is bringing up something dark about Crystal that she won't reveal.  I'm sure that this will be totally accepted and adored by the cast.  

It's so stupid that Crystal is not allowed to have different opinions about what Sutton said.  Saying that people of different cultures are allowed in your pool.  Um.... okay why wouldn't they be?  Crystal has a totally different life experience than Sutton and it's okay for her to find those comments weird.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Surrealist]

32 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The audience of this particular show is nasty to her (the WWHL polls, she's received hateful messages on social media, etc.)  It's sad, and on the show, she also has no one in her corner.  

I remember Crystal talking about the messages. I also remember seeing some of the messages she talked about. I started feeling sympathy for her at that point. People suck.

This season I've been giving her the benefit of the doubt. I don't have a problem with her expressing how she feels and calling out their hypocrisy (it's true!).

I've also never been a fan of groups who pile on one person. This season it seems to be Crystal's turn, although Sutton's still kind of on "the hot seat" as well.

And yet, Erika continues sitting in their midst and they've seemingly forgotten all her drama and lawsuits. Maybe they should go back to grilling, instead of kissing, her ass instead?

Edited June 9, 2022 by Surrealist

[Keywestclubkid]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Crystal should be allowed to say she had a conversation with Sutton when she first met her that made her uncomfortable. Which she has restated.  This episode.  Word for word.  Without people saying Oh she's trying to assassinate Sutton's character.

I would hate to be in a friend group where I'm never allowed to express discomfort.

Oh now I'm at the end of the episode and Sutton is bringing up something dark about Crystal that she won't reveal.  I'm sure that this will be totally accepted and adored by the cast.  

when Sutton brought it up she SAID what they said she didnt imply something that could have HUGE consequences on her then saying but ya know what never mind  .. there is a difference .... Crystal is allowed to feel however she wants to no one is denying her that in this group  however throwing out someone said some super dark racist shit but Im not gonna tell you what it was just use your imagination which could have LASTING implications for Sutton or anyone that was said about it fowl ... not letting her defend her self in that situation but implying well it was DARK come on now

Edited June 9, 2022 by Keywestclubkid

[pasdetrois]

10 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I would hate to be in a friend group where I'm never allowed to express discomfort.

Agreed, except that in this case I think Crystal is posturing rather than expressing genuine upset. She's stone cold, that one. Any tears are probably fake (for all of these women, not just Crystal). I'm just not buying her story.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Yeah, I am with @Ms Blue Jay. The idea that "OMG, Crystal is so hateful because she doesn't back down when Sutton pulls her white fragility tears" doesn't work with me. And I was really uncomfortable with the pile-on directed towards her.

For one, the other women and people here keep saying "Crystal brought it up." In fact, no, she didn't and IMO Garcelle is stirring the pot between Sutton and Garcelle in a really unhealthy way (to be fair, I think Garcelle believes she is doing that to have Sutton's back but still, she is pot-stirring, IMO).

Secondly, Crystal has expressed several times now that she doesn't want to go back, she wants to move forward, and the rest of the women keep pushing, pushing, pushing, all while one again some more denying her the right to her own feelings. But she isn't the one who keeps bringing the subject up.

I have warmed up to Sutton but she still has a lot of "privileged rich white lady" in her when it comes to matters of race. I don't think that Crystal has handled this situation perfectly. For one thing, I think she shouldn't have even tried to defend herself when Garcelle brought it up because it was never going to go well for her in that environment. And I think that Crystal should have talked with Sutton about the whole situation before Garcelle did. (Or she should just say whatever it is that Sutton said and let the chips fall where they may). But the idea that she's "hateful" because she holds to her conviction around biased language? That's a no for me.

[RealHousewife]

23 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Racism is also harmful.   It's interesting when people view calling out racial ignorance, or even racism, as so evil, but don't want to delve into what might potentially be a learning experience.  Not everyone believes that calling out racism is more harmful than racism itself.  Talking about it openly might even be helpful.  

Talking about race openly is not dividing people.   Wanting children of all races to hang out together like a Benetton ad is not exactly a nuanced sophisticated take on the world.  I guess Sutton was trying to be nice, but it's fine for Crystal to find it condescending. For example, a lot of people have racist experiences, even as children, and wanting to be close to others who won't do that to them is not 'being divided' but rather self-protecting.  

Agree with most of your post, especially the bolded, but how far are we going to take this topic? Unless I missed stuff (which yes I can/do), I think all Sutton was trying to get at is she's not racist and said convo wasn't dark/cancel-worthy.

21 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Crystal should join Bling Empire.  The audience of this particular show is nasty to her (the WWHL polls, she's received hateful messages on social media, etc.)  It's sad, and on the show, she also has no one in her corner.  

I do feel for Crystal regarding the hatred she receives. As far as I'm concerned, she is pretty harmless by Housewife standards. I get criticizing her, but not the vitriol. And the racist messages she gets are disgusting and never okay. I was really hoping she, Garcelle, and Sutton would be a trio because some of the others are so mean. She is friends with Kathy, right? Maybe she'll get more support in upcoming episodes. 

[Surrealist]

45 minutes ago, duni said:

She's up against professional victim Dorit so she needs to up her game. 

I'll start to worry about Crystal once she shows up in her THs wearing a black dress and a bedazzled black headband.

[Axie]

12 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

At the Mezquite Beach Bar & Grill, they all look like they’re wearing dresses they bought at a mall. A mall with a Sears as one of the anchor stores.

At a bankrupt, out of business Sears. 

[bencr]

Crystal's use of the word "dark" to mean "evil" could be construed as racially insensitive.

Following is a discussion of the use of the word "dark" as a metaphor for evil (from the web site teachingtraveling.com):

"The wonderful children’s book Sulwe by Lupita Nyong’o and Vashti Harrison ends  with the realization that darkness — both in the sky and in skin color — is beautiful and necessary. Yet, so many of us persist in using the term “dark” or “darkness” as a metaphor for 'bad things,' 'evil' — or anything negative.  This is problematic, and has profound ramifications. It’s time to reexamine our use of the metaphor “darkness,” and to shift away from it."

Edited June 9, 2022 by bencr

[Hiyo]

Quote

"I know, these are big words" comment was so condescending. 

I saw it as shade.

[Hiyo]

Quote

She was just criticized by Crystal for being one of those people who claimed she “didn’t see race.”  So she can’t win with Crystal. If she doesn’t notice race she is “One of those people” and when she does notice race, it is “problematic.”

It's problematic because at the time Sutton was noticing it for the wrong reasons.

Quote

To be honest, I think Crystal is a hateful person.

I don't see her that way at all.

Quote

Crystal knows full well Sutton’s intent, and is using race as a weapon to get back at her.

Last season? She barely knew Sutton when Sutton jumped into Crystal and Kyle's conversation and when Sutton was making those comments last year.

Quote

Sutton is open to learning. She’s apologized a gazillion times to Crystal, but no matter what she does it’s obvious it will never be enough. It will just be something else with Crystal. That Sutton continues to want a friendship is either generosity or gullibility, but either way she needs to watch out.

She is open now. For much of last year...not so much. Also, Crystal and Sutton are still friends, so Crystal bring up something Sutton did in the past isn't her trying to "take her down", it's just her bringing up something from the past that they both apparently dealt with.

Quote

Racism is also harmful.   It's interesting when people view calling out racial ignorance, or even racism, as so evil, but don't want to delve into what might potentially be a learning experience.  Not everyone believes that calling out racism is more harmful than racism itself.  Talking about it openly might even be helpful.  

Talking about race openly is not dividing people.   Wanting children of all races to hang out together like a Benetton ad is not exactly a nuanced sophisticated take on the world.  I guess Sutton was trying to be nice, but it's fine for Crystal to find it condescending. For example, a lot of people have racist experiences, even as children, and wanting to be close to others who won't do that to them is not 'being divided' but rather self-protecting.  

This.

Quote

There are just so many assumptions being made here that I have seen no evidence of.

Crystal should join Bling Empire.  The audience of this particular show is nasty to her (the WWHL polls, she's received hateful messages on social media, etc.)  It's sad, and on the show, she also has no one in her corner.  

This: The Sequel.

Quote

Crystal should be allowed to say she had a conversation with Sutton when she first met her that made her uncomfortable. Which she has restated.  This episode.  Word for word.  Without people saying Oh she's trying to assassinate Sutton's character.

I would hate to be in a friend group where I'm never allowed to express discomfort.

Oh now I'm at the end of the episode and Sutton is bringing up something dark about Crystal that she won't reveal.  I'm sure that this will be totally accepted and adored by the cast.  

It's so stupid that Crystal is not allowed to have different opinions about what Sutton said.  Saying that people of different cultures are allowed in your pool.  Um.... okay why wouldn't they be?  Crystal has a totally different life experience than Sutton and it's okay for her to find those comments weird.

This: Part III.

Quote

And yet, Erika continues sitting in their midst and they've seemingly forgotten all her drama and lawsuits.

What drama and lawsuits? She has been vindicated and everything against her was dropped.

Well, according to Ericka, anyway, so it must be true, right?

Edited June 9, 2022 by Hiyo

[Surrealist]

23 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

23 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

What drama and lawsuits? She has been vindicated and everything against her was dropped.

Well, according to Ericka, anyway, so it must be true, right?

And this season Erika's the Voice of Reason!

Edited June 9, 2022 by Surrealist

[lilmarysunshine]

What are “white fragility” tears? What a minefield to have conversations among “friends.” 

[Slakkie]

Crystal was on Two T's podcast and said she was closest with Sutton and of course Teddi was PISSED at that but I assume they work through this - I honestly think she got backed into a corner and Sutton called her on it and hopefully they can move on.

The thing is I am Sutton's age and live in the south.  People assume you are racist.  I am actually a true mutt but still get treated like I have a white sheet in the closet.  I also get that what we as Gen X grew up with( I do not see color) is not acceptable to younger people.  I was scolded for saying Chinese New Year heck last year that was fine (per Crystal's party) but now it is not.

In the end people need to take a breath and not jump to opinions.  I think the fact so many of the ladies are on Team Sutton is more because they don't want to be next.

[nichelle]

5 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

I remember the push to "not see color". My understanding of the intent of that, was to appreciate people as their complete self, and not judge, label or stereotype them from how they appear on the outside. I don't think it was intended to discount or ignore the struggles people go through because of their outward appearance, I think it was intended to try to ease or lessen those struggles by trying to get others to see beyond the color of someone's skin, and appreciate them (or not) for the person they are, and treat them accordingly.  There was no malevolent intent, to the best of my knowledge -either that or I grossly misinterpreted it at the time.

The intent was positive. The result was not. It's why I mentioned and sincerely believe that Sutton means well.

[Surrealist]

I'm starting to agree with the one RHOBH Redditor about the discord between Crystal/Garcelle/Sutton being purposefully stoked along by the other ladies to "break up" those friendships.

A few weeks ago, Kyle seemed as if she wanted to throw Sutton off the nearest building since Sutton didn't stop her entire life because Dorit got robbed. Fast forward to now, Kyle is egging on Crystal for being an overly emotional Millennial for sharing her feelings and because she called them hypocrites. Kyle and the other ladies, not named Garcelle and Sutton, are inwardly giggling and twirling their moustaches watching Garcelle and Sutton argue with Crystal (again). 

It's also strange that Erika seemed to be defending Sutton against Crystal, and Erika hates Sutton.

Maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight, who knows?

They're enjoying this, especially Erika who has exonerated herself from all wrongdoing. I need Karma to punch her in the face.

I've seen the IG photo of Garcelle, Sutton, and Denise. Can we PLEASE bring back Denise?!

Edited June 9, 2022 by Surrealist

[Jel]

If Crystal felt that Sutton's attitude or description of the multi-cultural pool party was problematic, or dark or really dark, that's fine. She's entitled to her feelings. But she should have expressed it in that way. It would have been easier to understand why she said this if  she had said, "It made me uncomfortable" "I felt there were racist undertones", whatever it was she felt. 

The problem is that she stated it like it was a fact: it was dark/really dark.  She left the bad stuff open to interpretation, but what she didn't leave open to interpretation was that something BAD was said. 

Sutton was telling a story that was basically, my kid had a pool party and no kid was excluded because of their race.  And she was happy about that. Not seeing the dark in that.

I do see the cringe, (or the old-fashionedness, not-completely-full-on-2022-woke attitude), but Crystal didn't say  cringey, she said dark, really dark, like it was a factual statement. She needs to own up to that much, and clarify either that it felt dark to her, or that she chose the wrong word.  

Kyle and co would probably still have a problem with it, because they seem to have a problem letting Crystal have her own feelings, but I think it would make more sense to the audience, to those of us who understand that people can feel differently about things.

[Ms Blue Jay]

29 minutes ago, Slakkie said:

The thing is I am Sutton's age and live in the south.  People assume you are racist. 

Would you like to hear what people assume about you when you're Asian?  Things are tough all over.

[Slakkie]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Would you like to hear what people assume about you when you're Asian?  Things are tough all over.

Actually I am Asian too so yeah I get it but then again I am not enough of anything to be any specific race so I do not count.  I love being called a KKK member when in fact they do not consider me white.  I think if we all stopped immediately judging people by their skin or who they sleep with life would be much kinder

[Cosmocrush]

7 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

My dislike started when she made Sutton melt down at Rinna’s garden party. That took some balls for a newcomer — not to mention the smirk on her face as she did it. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt later on, but with this season, nope. When people show you who they are the first time, believe them. (Or however the quote goes.) 

I thought Sutton got upset because she didn't bring a b-day gift and Crystal et al did.  Then she ran into the bushes with Kyle trailing her and trying to get her back on camera.  Then some fourth grade level insults were screamed ("you're just jealous" , leather pants, et. )

Anyway, I have a problem with people who feel the need to tell me how empathic they are after demonstrating the opposite.  How many times has  Sutton told us she is a good person!?   I give that kind of  stuff the side eye.

[Surrealist]

23 minutes ago, Jel said:

Kyle and co would probably still have a problem with it, because they seem to have a problem letting Crystal have her own feelings

IIRC, this seemed to be Crystal's attitude. At that point, no matter what she said or how she said it would have gone over well with them. They would have continued nitpicking her over it.

Kyle was getting on my nerves with regard to this in the same way she annoyed me with policing how others reacted/didn't react to Dorit's robbery, based off her own standards.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Surrealist

[lilmarysunshine]

46 minutes ago, nichelle said:

The intent was positive. The result was not. It's why I mentioned and sincerely believe that Sutton means well.

I guess it depends on who you ask about the result. 

[Maximona]

16 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Saying "I don't see color" is also saying "I don't see the obstacles and challenges that people of color face everyday."

Is it, though?  See, I kind of see saying, "I don't see color" as more of an attempt to say, "I don't want to contribute to the obstacles and challenges that people of color face every day."

A clumsy attempt, sure.  An attempt that could be much, much better worded.  But not badly intended.

Not something I personally would ever say.  But as I am not a POC, I'm not going to police Crystal's reactions to that one.

That said, I do think the issue is particularly loaded for Sutton because she is so obviously Southern, and there is a strong if unspoken belief outside the South that all Southerners are racist, whether they know it or not.

Edited to add:  Just saw that many, many posters posted more-or-less the same thoughts while I was dillydallying about posting.  😀. Apologies for the redundancy! 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Maximona

[Slakkie]

8 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

IIRC, this seemed to be Crystal's attitude. At that point, no matter what she said or how she said it would have gone over well with them. They would have continued nitpicking her over it.

Kyle was getting on my nerves with regard to this in the same way she annoyed me with policing how others reacted/didn't react to Dorit's robbery, based off her own standards.

Totally agree this was definitely to keep the heat off THEM

[lilmarysunshine]

19 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Would you like to hear what people assume about you when you're Asian?  Things are tough all over.

Indeed, they are. Which is why it is usually best to stay away from sweeping generalizations. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Would you like to hear what people assume about you when you're Asian? 

Or Arab ;)

[eleanorofaquitaine]

17 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Would you like to hear what people assume about you when you're Asian?  Things are tough all over.

I think part of the reason I am so strongly to some of the critiques of Crystal, especially from the ladies, is because they skirt dangerously close to some pretty uncomfortable stereotypes about Asian women in particular (mostly their complaints that she's too closed off and also that she's manipulative, which is basically what repeating the so-called former friends gossip is). I am not Asian but I am aware of those stereotypes and unfortunately, I think that there may be some unconscious bias going on with their critiques if Crystal. 

12 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

I thought Sutton got upset because she didn't bring a b-day gift and Crystal et al did.  Then she ran into the bushes with Kyle trailing her and trying to get her back on camera.  Then some fourth grade level insults were screamed ("you're just jealous" , leather pants, et. )

Anyway, I have a problem with people who feel the need to tell me how empathic they are after demonstrating the opposite.  How many times has  Sutton told us she is a good person!?   I give that kind of  stuff the side eye.

That is exactly what happened. The idea that Crystal "made" Sutton "melt down" is laughable, IMO. Sutton is an adult and her melt downs are her own responsibility. But regardless, what made Sutton melt down was the fact that she didn't bring a gift and felt embarrassed.

That being said, she was still right in calling Crystal's pleather pants ugly.

Re someone asked above what "white fragility tears" are. I just inserted the "tears" part because Sutton is a crier but "white fragility" is the idea that white people often react badly to be told that something they said was offensive, even if inadvertently so, and start reacting much like Sutton did last year.

[byrd]

19 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I’m so sorry for your loss 🙏🏻

Yes so did my mother but it still was hard as hell to carry out her wishes. 

[SassyCat]

Crystal is at it again. She knows exactly what she is doing and it is a calculated move on her part, much like so many politicians today use this same technique. Weaponizing her words. She knows the pen is mightier than the sword, tho she is not using written words, but spoken words as her weapon. 

Her insinuations that Sutton used “dark” and “problematic” words that were “hurtful” and racist sounding to her, yet does not reveal the actual event and words Sutton used that she wants people to believe?

Just her bringing up the Rorschach test, shows that she delves into readings about psychology and understands that word use can be used in many ways. I know people like this. People who plan ahead what words they will plant as seeds in the minds of one, or many others to cause doubt and negative feelings about another person in an attempt to character assassinate. Crystal did it last year to Sutton and is trying again, this time “hinting” at racism, rather than last years “hinting” at mental instability, which didn’t stick. Knowing  exactly what her weaponized words are supposed to evoke from the other women. Sutton hate.

I can turn it all around on Crystal and say her actions are “disturbing” and  her attempts at weaponizing words against Sutton are “troubling” and leave it at that.

She thinks she is so superior from her armchair psychologist seat and talks down to Garcelle and the other women about her use of “Big words” that they just may not be intelligent enough to understand. Give me a break! I was so glad Garcelle immediately called her out on that, and that all the other women were smart enough to see through that obvious attempt at slithering out of the microscopes focus on herself and her intentions, at that point. 

Crystal is not to be trusted at all, by any of them, and I hope Sutton doesn’t give her the benefit of the doubt after this second attempt to character assassinate her. Shes a real snake in the grass and its showing in her face which could use a little absorbent powder to soak up some of that shine from the sweat build up of acting in an underhanded way. 

Dorit, WHY did you beef up your lips? You’re very beautiful to begin with and now you are starting to ruin your own good looks. Such a foolish decision to make. You’ll probably be repeating with a re-do beef up like most women do, to the point you just look like another Lisa lipped lunatic.

Also the in-mourning look and constant in trauma bull, with the black in your talking heads, I am sure is just an attempt to make everyone believe the unbelievable, that the break-in was a random and threatening act upon your family and assets.  

Kyle, please never let them film you walking from behind in tight jeans ever again. That was the strangest gait ever recorded in the history of housewives when she answered her front door to Diana. Plus, your dogs are not cute when they slobber all over the human food platters/plates and you just laugh and hand wave away as dogs will be dogs behavior. Wait till the day you accidentally leave some dark chocolate unattended and they die a painful death from it. Its all on you to train your dogs to behave properly so they can live happy healthy lives which people will then find them a joy to be around. Not huge hulking, pushy contenders in brunch offerings you have set out for your guests.

[ichbin]

13 hours ago, film noire said:

And it annoys me no end that she carries around her own issues, with no self awareness (see: Crystal trying to shame and mock Garcelle re: "Rorschach" - "I know! These are big words!" - beyond ugly. And for the record: you are not superior to Garcelle in any way,  Crystal,  so just zip it). 

I admire the restraint shown by Garcelle after that!  Crystal went on to make a similar statement regarding an inability to comprehend words while on WWHL last night, but this time in reference to two of the others (I can't remember which ones, but I'm thinking she mentioned Kyle and Dorit about that?).

4 hours ago, duni said:

I wouldn't call it dark, but I did fine it cringey.  She said "Chinese," not "Asian," and if she didn't know the redhead she assumed his/her nationality and religion. 

Well, considering the girls being referenced were at Sutton's house as friends of her daughter it is very possible she knows their ethnic and/or cultural backgrounds.  Let's assume Sutton knows the girl is Chinese, why would it be wrong to say that instead of Asian?