S03.E04: all the sauces

[PrincessPurrsALot]

You’re Thweetie?!

Original air date 2022.05.15

[Blakeston]

Sorry, I absolutely cannot fathom that Sally and Natalie have the depth to create a show that would get a glowing review from the New York Times and a 98 from Rotten Tomatoes.

[cpcathy]

Yes, I’m disappointed that Sally is successful, I can’t stand her.

[Maire]

Agreed. Sally’s success is the most unbelievable part of this show.

[Nordly Beaumont]

I loved that Hank's associates are "Dom and Deluise"

Also loved the long, long list of names Gene's agent rattled off, and even remembered who said what and when.

The customer support call to the detonator app was hilarious! "Sounds like we were successful. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"

If I recall correctly, Joe Montegna really does do a lot of work with veterans.

What was the bomb saying?

Edited May 16, 2022 by Nordly Beaumont

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Sorry, I absolutely cannot fathom that Sally and Natalie have the depth to create a show that would get a glowing review from the New York Times and a 98 from Rotten Tomatoes.

I seriously spent a large part of that premiere expecting it to turn out to be a dream because yeah, I don't believe it either. It seems like everyone is having magical things happen to them except for Barry, who's dealing with more realistic reactions to himself. 

I didn't feel bad for Barry that Sally broke up with him, but I can't say I like Sally either. (Not that this is a problem for me enjoying the show.) She still seems like a completely shallow, selfish person who was barely even in the relationship. Like I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take seriously her revelation in this ep, where she admits to herself that she was falling back into a dangerous pattern with Barry because Katie was truthful with her--or if she just immediately internalized that the relationship looked bad to an outsider and was so uninterested in Barry that she didn't have any way of understanding the relationship herself outside of that outward impression that reflected badly on her. Based on what she said it seems that the reviewer who thought Barry had become abusive was wrong--he really did just yell at her that one time. And that could be enough, of course, but this is a woman who had her boyfriend regularly showing up at the set to bring her flowers under orders to never stay for lunch, and he was okay with that.

I won't be surprised if something bad happens with Sally and she reaches out to Barry again.

I love Fuchs actually finding his panther army and wonder who's going to be the little boy who went to heaven. 

[MerBearStare]

So this guy just randomly shows up at your house, tells you he knows exactly who killed your husband/dad, and you're just going to take his word for it and make plans to murder the guy? 😐

I was really surprised that Sally took her co-star's words to heart and broke up with Barry. Might be the first thing Sally's done that I like.
 

23 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Sorry, I absolutely cannot fathom that Sally and Natalie have the depth to create a show that would get a glowing review from the New York Times and a 98 from Rotten Tomatoes.

I wonder how many of Barry's writers know somebody where it's just like "This fucking idiot wrote a critically-acclaimed show/movie/mini-series?!" But I feel like it's going to end up that Sally's show is well-reviewed but not watched by that many people and will get cancelled. Pam! will probably beat it in the ratings; especially if it follows Laws of Humanity.

ETA: Noho Hank + Cristobel 4ever ♥️

Edited May 16, 2022 by MerBearStare

[sjankis630]

52 minutes ago, MerBearStare said:

So this guy just randomly shows up at your house, tells you he knows exactly who killed your husband/dad, and you're just going to take his word for it and make plans to murder the guy? 😐

This.

That seemed too weird and setup. They just picked it up and ran with it.

[raeb23]

4 minutes ago, MerBearStare said:

So this guy just randomly shows up at your house, tells you he knows exactly who killed your husband/dad, and you're just going to take his word for it and make plans to murder the guy? 

Yeah, I didn't get this. What proof did Fuchs have? Also, they have no experience with weapons but think they could take on a hitman?

19 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

"Sounds like we were successful. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"

That was ridiculously perfect!

I'm glad that Sally broke it off with Barry, but it's going to lead to him being even more unhinged. I hope that doesn't blow back on Katie. 

25 minutes ago, MerBearStare said:

I wonder how many of Barry's writers know somebody where it's just like "This fucking idiot wrote a critically-acclaimed show/movie/mini-series?!"

Yeah. Sally's narcissism/ shallowness would hardly be unique in Hollywood. I believe that she could create a critically acclaimed show. I don't believe she could do it in such a short timeframe without a seasoned showrunner guiding her though. It's been less than a year between her theatre showcase & the premiere. I think her success would be more believable this season if there was a slower buildup, e.g. shopping around a script or producing a pilot, rather than jumping from pitch to full series order for a working actress with no writing or production experience.

[PinkRibbons]

I'm calling it that Annabeth Gish put out the hit on her husband. Also, Fuches is an idiot using Robert Goulet, because someone is bound to go to the cops with his info and that alias is in their system.

While she broke up with Barry for the right reasons, no way did I think Sally would stay with Barry a second past her becoming successful. Now that she doesn't need him there to bolster her ego by being her errand boy while never surpassing her in ambition or ability, I could totally see her wanting to trade up in the celebrity dating scene.

(This was totally Sarah Goldberg's Emmy episode though, she was amazing. Her laugh-crying was just this side of heartwarming with a touch of sheer cringe and man, is that a difficult line to walk.)

It's probably wishful thinking, but I feel like Barry may have gotten his senses blown straight again by seeing Hank with Cristobal. Like he got an idea of what mattered in life (or just general humanity), which is why he went to Gene to put things right. I hope he can stay in that more grounded headspace but I doubt it.

[Irlandesa]

If this is a network show, the critics might have only reviewed one or two episodes even if the trend for most shows these days is a few more--mostly with streaming since shows tend to be completed by the time they end up on a streaming service.

Sally writing from her experience and surrounded by a good writers' room probably could create a good first set of episodes.  The trick of a long running series is what happens after the initial premise is introduced and you have to build out that world.  I've seen a lot of shows fade after the initial 13 (for a network show).  And others almost seem to get stronger.

7 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

I'm calling it that Annabeth Gish put out the hit on her husband. Also, Fuches is an idiot using Robert Goulet, because someone is bound to go to the cops with his info and that alias is in their system.

I too thought she put a hit on her husband and that Fuches was telling her son that instead of just that it was Barry.  But then they veered. I'm still suspicious but I'd think Fuches would know who put out the hit.

And Fuches has an alias of Kenneth Goulet.  Not Robert.

[aghst]

Yeah that’s my suspicion, it’s Annabeth Gish who hired Barry through Fuches.  But then she might figure out who Kenneth Goulet is.

It’s very irresponsible, Fuches is potentially sending those people to their demise.

He’s burning bridges with Barry, soon coming to a point of no return as far as any kind of reconciliation.

Hank made all the wrong choices for setting up the Detonate app.😊

I thought for sure Montegna would turn Cousineau around, be happy about his expanded role and notice in Variety.

 

But know it was a bag full of money.

Yeah Sally dumped Barry more because of getting 98% on Rotten Tomatoes than Katie telling her that Barry was violent.

Based on what?  That one time he yelled at her?  He didn’t yell at her other times or hit her.  She called him Boo Bear.

Does she really believe she’s breaking some pattern of choosing violent men or she thinks she’ll just find a more successful Boo Bear?

Maybe Barry should have brought her a big bag of money as well.

[thuganomics85]

The more I hear about Gene's history, the more I kind of want to see some flashbacks!  Apparently had some kind of beef with Joe Mantegna that a restraining order was put out?  Accused Tony Danza of being in the mafia or something (I'm assuming that's what his agent meant when she said that was racist)?!  Man, Gene was crazy back in the day!  Always great seeing Fred Melamed.

Glad Cristobal didn't get caught in the explosion at least, but I knew the whole thing was not going to go smoothly.  Who knew sinking up your phone to detonate a bomb would be so hard?!  Barry calling tech support was great: as was the voices that kept coming from the bomb.  Just kept making me laugh due to how ridiculous it was.

Sally's show being a success does seem a little too good to be true, but I'm kind of thinking this is all setting her up for some kind of fall.  Even if she has now ended things with Barry, I have a feeling she'll still face some kind of obstacle due to Barry's history/actions.

Looks like Fuches grand plan is to meet up with surviving family members of Barry's previous victims and out him to them.  Not fully sure why they would just take his word without evidence, but I guess I can seem some desperate enough to grab onto any kind of closure.  Definitely think something is going go down with Annabeth Gish's character, because I don't see them casting her for a minor role.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Based on what?  That one time he yelled at her?  He didn’t yell at her other times or hit her.  She called him Boo Bear.

I've not been the biggest Sally fan but I don't think I ever saw her as a clout climber when it came to romantic relationships.

I think getting yelled at like that would be enough even if it was just one time, although who knows for sure.  It's a big enough red flag.

I find it believable that having it reflected back to her, and the way she saw she retreated to old patterns in reaction to it, would be enough for her to reconsider continuing the relationship.  She has done the "he didn't mean it" excuses and placating before and it just got her deeper into a bad situation. 

 

[PinkRibbons]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And Fuches has an alias of Kenneth Goulet.  Not Robert.

🤦‍♀️ *My God, Robert Goulet!*

Technically Sally hasn't been a good partner at all herself. Her "Barry should be seen and not heard" set policy was pretty gross, not to mention the fact that it's been months and he's clearly been deeply depressed, which she never noticed or even seemed to question.

[cardigirl]

8 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I'm calling it that Annabeth Gish put out the hit on her husband. Also, Fuches is an idiot using Robert Goulet, because someone is bound to go to the cops with his info and that alias is in their system.

I was just gonna post that!  I don't know, though, could she allow her son to be pulled into this plot?  Maybe they're getting a gun to go after "Kenneth Goulet" rather than Barry, so the secret dies with him.  🤔

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I've not been the biggest Sally fan but I don't think I ever saw her as a clout climber when it came to romantic relationships.

I think getting yelled at like that would be enough even if it was just one time, although who knows for sure.  It's a big enough red flag.

I find it believable that having it reflected back to her, and the way she saw she retreated to old patterns in reaction to it, would be enough for her to reconsider continuing the relationship.  She has done the "he didn't mean it" excuses and placating before and it just got her deeper into a bad situation. 

 

I think she did with Barry.  He was having some success in class and she jumped right on him.  Then he was getting parts, and she couldn't understand it.  I don't know, I think she does use people. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by cardigirl

[Kate47]

I'm actually really proud of Gene, undeterred until Barry promised to leave him alone (and gave him the cash). I would have thought he'd be shallow enough to jump at the first sign his reputation was changing, and instead all he was thinking of was getting his family the hell out, with working luggage. His character constantly surprises me.

[Dev F]

10 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I'm calling it that Annabeth Gish put out the hit on her husband.

But wouldn't Fuches know that, since he's the one who books the hits in the first place? I doubt that he was suggesting to the people who originally hired him that they get revenge for the killings they themselves paid for.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Dev F

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

🤦‍♀️ *My God, Robert Goulet!*

Technically Sally hasn't been a good partner at all herself. Her "Barry should be seen and not heard" set policy was pretty gross, not to mention the fact that it's been months and he's clearly been deeply depressed, which she never noticed or even seemed to question.

Yes, that's what makes it more interesting. Because we know what was going on with Barry in that moment. It is good for her not to be with him, since he's secretly a hitman and has murdered a bunch of people. But while she can't be blamed for not knowing that, it is a bit weird how she was fine with him being obviously depressed. And even in that moment, him yelling at her once (when we know that for him it was a life or death situation) he wasn't threatening her and didn't belittle her, even, just loudly called her out on what she was doing. 

So it really does feel like Sally is again falling into a situation where she looks like she's being more heroic than she is. 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Sally's show being a success does seem a little too good to be true, but I'm kind of thinking this is all setting her up for some kind of fall.  Even if she has now ended things with Barry, I have a feeling she'll still face some kind of obstacle due to Barry's history/actions.

 

Could be--though I'd rather they stick with Sally being totally disconnected from that aspect of it. There's a reason they set him up with a woman who was so committed to projecting things onto this guy in his normal life, like far beyond her just not guessing that he's actually a hit man. Her great success right now seems like it's going to raise the pressure on her.

[PinkRibbons]

If I was putting a hit out on someone I definitely wouldn't use my real name or try to make any kind of close contact with whoever I hired. I'd be pretty worried about blackmail, at the very least.

[iMonrey]

The whole bit with the detonation app had me in stitches. Just the concept of it is hilarious enough, and Hank saying "yes" to all the prompts like "do you want to share your information" - OMG. Then the call with tech support like he was reporting his cable was out or something. This is why I watch this show. Sometimes it's just absurd.

And why was the bomb talking and what was it saying?? Did they establish that in the last episode? I can't remember.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

But wouldn't Fuches know that, since he's the one who books the hits in the first place? I doubt that he was suggesting to the people who originally hired him that they get revenge for the killings they themselves paid for.

 

Fuches may be betting on Annabeth not knowing that he's the guy who arranges the hits.  But she may conclude that since he knows the details he is the one who arranged it.

The comedy will come from Fuches discovering that he's the target.

Like that moment when the detective caught him in season 2 and his proposition to Barry was to kill his ex-wife's lover and Barry was "What?!?"

 

18 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

If I was putting a hit out on someone I definitely wouldn't use my real name or try to make any kind of close contact with whoever I hired. I'd be pretty worried about blackmail, at the very least.

Annabeth could have used a fake name but Fuches would know the real identity of her husband who was the target and be able to find her.

[Joimiaroxeu]

"A stone cold buster." That's our Gene!

Is there really an app to detonate a bomb? I don't dare search for it in my Google Play account.

Phew, at least Cristobal survived the explosion.

When the police start investigating that house blowing up, isn't Barry likely to be on a neighbor's security camera, at the very least at the one where those girls were selling cookies or whatever? Plus all his info is in the detonation app, including his location. Even if he destroys the phone, the info is still in Google's servers somewhere.

Sally sure turned on a dime. Was it because Barry missed the premiere or did it finally sink in that she was in an abusive relationship?

Quote

Hank made all the wrong choices for setting up the Detonate app.😊

IKR? That bothered me almost more than anything else in this episode. 🤯

Quote

And why was the bomb talking and what was it saying??

Over on reddit they said it was saying something like "You are holding a bomb." First it was in Korean and then when Barry bumped the box against the house it switched to Japanese. I imagine the talking was a warning in case someone picked the box up not knowing what was inside. There weren't any words or markings on the outside.

[aghst]

Bill Hader said on the Prestige TV podcast that Sally hearing from Katie is suppose to be the veil lifting from her eyes moment, a sign of growth for her.

Hader talked about some people reacting like "he just got mad at her" and his response was "Dude ..."

But sure, Barry is violent from killing all those guys, though Sally doesn't know it.

 

[Penman61]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

And even in that moment, him yelling at her once (when we know that for him it was a life or death situation) he wasn't threatening her and didn't belittle her, even, just loudly called her out on what she was doing. 

Those of us who've been around yellers like Barry know damn well it's a threat, implicit or explicit, to escalate to violence.

Just because every yell isn't followed by violence doesn't mean it's not a threat; that's the terror--otherwise, it's just literally noise. I found Barry's outburst terrifying, and I'm glad the show agrees.

In this ep, I did find it a bit abrupt that Sally appeared to decide so quickly to leave Barry but, again, if you've been in that situation, sometimes it just takes one person unambiguously saying out loud "This guy is violent and bad" after you've been feeling it for weeks/months/years but too afraid, for whatever reason, to admit it to yourself.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Penman61

[aghst]

I can't recall Barry being that frequent a yeller.

He yelled "Fuches!" when Fuches ratfucked him with Cousineau but otherwise?

We did see him blow up, kind of enter the fugue state at the monastery.  Maybe also when he invaded the Ecuadorian headquarters in season 1, though it was his partner that was out of control and reckless.

Barry has been a proficient assassin because he's bee coldly efficient, rarely get out of control.  We saw that in the first murder in the hotel room, a grisly scene with the blood coming out of the eye of the victim -- Hader said they researched how corpses of murders look.

Yet he was calm and after that first hit shown, he went home and played video games.

It was in season 2 when they did the backstory if Afghanistan, though he was very efficient using that sniper rifle and it was his fellow soldiers who got emotional in celebration.

Then another Afghanistan flashback, his buddy is killed and he goes out of control and kills that villager.

Kind of seems like there was a bit of retconning there in season 2.

Because in season 1, he was always this cool customer.  Like he discovers the Chechens killed Ryan so he cooly takes them out, going straight at them while they panicked.

Also efficient, not getting emotional, to kill Janice.

But now they're suggesting he's prone to going on emotional and shooting rampages?

He was cool as he paid off the lemonade stand girls and then plant the bomb.  Also throughout the technical support call for the Detonate app.

Then he rescued Cristobal and took him to Hank's.

He got kind of emotional, telling Gene that he took a job to make it up to him, promised to leave him and his family alone and gave him the bag of cash.

He definitely needs therapy but I don't think it would be for something like anger management.  More like PTSD and being emotionally dead until he met Cousineau.

[iMonrey]

Well, let's be realistic, Sally should stay far, far away from Barry for her own safety, that's just a fact. She obviously doesn't know what he's involved with and how dangerous his life is but any way she comes to that decision is for the best, for her own protection. Whether or not Barry's outburst merits a diagnosis of abusiveness is sort of a moot point. He's a killer for hire and he's involved with a lot of shady characters. Nobody in his orbit is safe.

[sistermagpie]

25 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Those of us who've been around yellers like Barry know damn well it's a threat, implicit or explicit, to escalate to violence.

Just because every yell isn't followed by violence doesn't mean it's not a threat; that's the terror--otherwise, it's just literally noise. I found Barry's outburst terrifying, and I'm glad the show agrees.

I got that the yelling itself was threatening--as I said, I thought that outburst was a perfectly good reason for her to leave him. I'm not criticizing her reaction to the yelling--the reaction she had in this ep was far more reasonable and healthy than the one she had in the moment, where she clearly switched into the same mode she'd used in her abusive relationship by going numb, blocking it out, and then apologizing.

But it still doesn't seem so black and white as to say that someone yelling in the kind of situation he was in in his head is just automatically a sign that the relationship is abusive, because when someone feels like something is life or death and the other person is not hearing that, yelling seems pretty natural as well. The rage inside Barry is threatening and Katie was right to say that Barry was violent, something that other people have been dismissing. But to me, if we're accurately describing the guy, the problem is that he's violent and that is a dangerous person to be around, not that Sally has been in an abusive relationship without realizing it. Frankly, if Barry was the one ordering Sally to bring him flowers and under no circumstances stay for lunch at the set when he pretended to ask her (and acting like she'd overstepped when he showed up without her telling him too), I think everyone would be reading that as an abusive relationship too.

22 minutes ago, aghst said:

He definitely needs therapy but I don't think it would be for something like anger management.  More like PTSD and being emotionally dead until he met Cousineau.

Yes, I'd say that too. I'm not expert in PTSD, but him being detached to the point of numbness with rage boiling inside him seems like it would be normal for that condition. Barry has told some people about his past, and they usually dismiss what he's saying because it makes them uncomfortable or use it to their own advantage. It's not like Barry's some mystery psychological case or is so very unique. He was trained to kill, was celebrated for killing and is still being asked to kill. He swings between being completely passive and murder. The one relationship in his life that should be personally nurturing is based on the other person not only not knowing him, but not seeming to think she needs to know him. There are some things about him that Sally did know and still ignored. "He killed a bunch of people in some war but I wouldn't say that makes him violent."

[aghst]

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, let's be realistic, Sally should stay far, far away from Barry for her own safety, that's just a fact. She obviously doesn't know what he's involved with and how dangerous his life is but any way she comes to that decision is for the best, for her own protection. Whether or not Barry's outburst merits a diagnosis of abusiveness is sort of a moot point. He's a killer for hire and he's involved with a lot of shady characters. Nobody in his orbit is safe.

Probably.

Or it's more the case that Barry shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone until he sorts through his issues.

But there are no indications that he would harm people close to him -- or those whom he loves -- because he's going out of his way not to kill Cousineau, even though it would make things easier for him.

Fact that he loves, or thinks he loves certain people puts him ahead of other killers?

[Dev F]

5 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

If I was putting a hit out on someone I definitely wouldn't use my real name or try to make any kind of close contact with whoever I hired. I'd be pretty worried about blackmail, at the very least.

But why would Fuches assume that it wasn't the wife putting out the hit unless he had specific reason to think it was someone else? If an untraceable person hires you to take out a guy, wouldn't the guy's spouse be one of the most likely suspects?

I mean, maybe the joke will be that Fuches is an idiot and didn't bother to verify that it wasn't the wife, but that particular error seems more convoluted and thus less punchy than other "Fuches is an idiot" jokes we've seen, like him sneering that he knows he has a right not to submit a DNA sample as he gets his saliva all over a Coke can.

4 hours ago, aghst said:

Fuches may be betting on Annabeth not knowing that he's the guy who arranges the hits.  But she may conclude that since he knows the details he is the one who arranged it.

The comedy will come from Fuches discovering that he's the target.

Per the family's discussion, he's definitely not the current target. The victim's son talks about how "it's like the guy said—the cops aren't doing anything," and the mom remarks, "I just never thought I was this kind of person." None of that is really consistent with the idea that they're actually hunting down Fuches to stop him from exposing that they ordered the hit or whatever.

Which, again, only leaves room for a super convoluted story where the mom is just pretending to want revenge on Barry for her son's benefit, when in fact she secretly wants to take out Fuches. I think the more likely explanation is that she's plotting with her son to take out Barry because neither of them had anything to do with the guy's murder and they actually want to take out Barry.

(The joke I figured the revenge panther storyline is pointing toward is that Fuches stupidly sent two marks after the same target, and that they just might end up killing each other instead of Barry.)

[cpcathy]

My husband didn’t quite understand that the hit Barry made was a flashback. I told him it was, and then Hader said on the Prestige TV podcast that that scene was the first scene of the pilot. I only realized it because Annabeth Gish’s character has gray hair now, so it was a time jump. But I don’t think she out the hit on her husband.

[raeb23]

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Just because every yell isn't followed by violence doesn't mean it's not a threat; that's the terror--otherwise, it's just literally noise. I found Barry's outburst terrifying, and I'm glad the show agrees.

Sally also knows that Barry is capable of violence based on his past, which gives his outburst a different context even if he didn't overtly threaten her.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Or it's more the case that Barry shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone until he sorts through his issues.

Or, ever. I mean, realistically he should be in jail for life.

Quote

But there are no indications that he would harm people close to him -- or those whom he loves -- because he's going out of his way not to kill Cousineau, even though it would make things easier for him.

Well he killed Janice. It was simple self preservation. I don't know that he'd stop himself from killing anyone if it came down to it. I think he realizes that he has sufficiently scared Gene out of going to the police so he no longer has to monitor him and can promise never to see him again. I also think he is able to compartmentalize all the different facets of his life.

Quote

Fact that he loves, or thinks he loves certain people puts him ahead of other killers?

Not really. Psychopaths can be "in love" with someone, whatever that happens to mean to them.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

But there are no indications that he would harm people close to him -- or those whom he loves -- because he's going out of his way not to kill Cousineau, even though it would make things easier for him.

He might be trying to avoid killing Gene right now but he has definitely harmed him.  He killed his girlfriend.  This season, he held a gun to Gene's head, threw him in the trunk of the car, chased him down when he tried to escape and threatened to kill his family--a threat that has a lot of weight given what Gene knows about Barry.

Barry has "released" him in that he's not begging for Gene's forgiveness any longer but he spent the first four episodes of this season breaking him down.  I could be surprised with what happens but I suspect even though Gene has reached a place where he feels safe staying in LA, he doesn't feel safe enough to try to take on Barry again.

The irony is that even though I don't think he he'd hit Sally, he did basically groom Gene with fear and intimidation.

And as I was writing this, iMonrey posted something similar.

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The irony is that even though I don't think he he'd hit Sally, he did basically groom Gene with fear and intimidation.

The irony for me is I don't think he'd hit Sally but I totally think he could kill her!

[Irlandesa]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

The irony for me is I don't think he'd hit Sally but I totally think he could kill her!

He wouldn't hit her but he would complete a hit on her? 

[Soobs]

3 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Those of us who've been around yellers like Barry know damn well it's a threat, implicit or explicit, to escalate to violence.

Just because every yell isn't followed by violence doesn't mean it's not a threat; that's the terror--otherwise, it's just literally noise. I found Barry's outburst terrifying, and I'm glad the show agrees.

In this ep, I did find it a bit abrupt that Sally appeared to decide so quickly to leave Barry but, again, if you've been in that situation, sometimes it just takes one person unambiguously saying out loud "This guy is violent and bad" after you've been feeling it for weeks/months/years but too afraid, for whatever reason, to admit it to yourself.

He also came to her job which is a show about domestic violence and had her backed up against a wall while towering over her. This is not something a normal person would do even in a life or death situation. He was trying to get his way through physical intimidation which is abusive. I think it's called symbolic aggression.

 Man, Fuches is really throwing those people under the bus by sending them Barry's way. He's maybe even more of a psychopath than Barry! He's just using their emotions like they're pawns on a chessboard. Especially with the young guy, it's pretty gross.

Cristobal was going to die for Hank! Even his father-in-law saw that it was true love. I'm rooting for those two.

Barry is going to be on every Nest camera on that block. But maybe it's the type of crime no one bothers to investigate that well because they're all criminals. The young co-star on other hand who told Sally to break up with Barry, if something happens to her, the cops might notice more. I'm worried about her!

Barry aiming his phone around the car trying to detonate the bomb like he was trying to change the channel on a broken TV, was comedy gold.

[aghst]

If it were anybody else than Cousineau, he'd have killed that person who was threatening to go to the police.

Sure there is no way for Barry to come back from the actions depicted on the show.  

But it doesn't strike me that Hader and Berg conceived of this show as a serious exploration into whether a killer can have any semblance of a normal life or get out of the only life he's known for most of his adult life.

I think they came up with a hook, an assassin who wants to become an actor.  So there were jokes in season 1, Fuches telling him he can't be public-facing in his job like be in commercials and Barry saying he didn't think he'd do commercials -- wanted to be a serious ACT-or.

Maybe the more they had to have him kill, to keep Hank and some other characters from his past alive, or depict his past, they realized they can't have him suddenly quit and become a successful civilian.  It would upset many viewers and probably not ring true that he can so easily leave a life of violence behind.  Plus there's the whole impulse for morality tale, people may not be able to tolerate someone who's done so many bad things go unpunished.

 

We've gone through the heavy and dark shows about crime and punishment -- Breaking Bad, Sopranos,  The Wire.  I would have enjoyed Barry remaining more light and comic.

Because the funny thing is, there are a lot of viewers who didn't want to see Walter White or Tony Soprano get their just deserts, poetic justice.  But I was okay with how the ending of those characters were handled.

Not sure I'd want to see Barry killed or locked away in prison at the end.  That may be a minority view though.

Edited May 16, 2022 by aghst

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, Soobs said:

He also came to her job which is a show about domestic violence and had her backed up against a wall while towering over her. This is not something a normal person would do even in a life or death situation. He was trying to get his way through physical intimidation which is abusive. I think it's called symbolic aggression.

 

A normal person wouldn't advance on someone smaller than they were in a life or death situation? I think they might do that without even realizing it. Not trying to defend Barry in the scene, but I'm sure plenty of people would choose towering over someone over dying.

Another odd twist in this is how in these past couple of eps we've heard multiple stories of Cousineau assaulting people, including on sets. He threw hot tea at a PA, punched a fellow (albeit taller) actor in a scene, brought a loaded gun to an audition and was apparently so aggressive to Joe Mantegna he has a restraining order against him--none of which he regrets at all. Just seems like that adds to the mix of how the violence on this show lurches around in sometimes arbitrary ways from comedy to seriousness, to tragedy and back to comedy, with the line drawn in sometimes arbitrary places. Katie was the only person to say she felt unsafe around Barry, but multiple people have said that about Cousineau without him coming across as a problem, even if it ruined his career. And in the same ep where it's a relief that Katie called Barry's violent vibe for what it was, we can laugh at his problem with the bomb app and feel happy that NoHo Hank didn't accidentally kill Christobal when he was murdering all the other people in the house so he could be with Christobal.

[aghst]

that's a good point, Cousineau definitely has an anger management problem.

If he was doing all these antics, which they seem to cite for comic effect, he'd be canceled like Weinstein.

Barry makes a mistake one time and Katie judged him and Sally canceled their relationship.

 

 

 

[Traveller519]

18 hours ago, aghst said:

Yeah Sally dumped Barry more because of getting 98% on Rotten Tomatoes than Katie telling her that Barry was violent.

Given what' Bill's said about the veil lifting (from downthread) I wonder if there's two parts to this. Katie's observation that she's with a violent guy has lead her to worry about that perception, and as a she's so closely associated with what she now believes is going to be a big hit show dealing with domestic violence, she's more concerned about the perception than really coming to terms with her own reality. Sally's motivations have long been about perception, hence the modifying her showcase to what would stand-out more. Though she did seem to put two and two together about quality vs perception with the kick-ass women show.

I am so ready for a gag where the broader public tunes into the show thinking its going to be Janis Joplin biopic and fleeing quickly.

Everything around the Detonate App was sooooo good. I have to believe Hank's not that dumb (not the app makers) and he was just making fun of apps himself, but you can never be so sure. The customer support was so excellent though. What a clever satire of modern capitalism.

[Nordly Beaumont]

Sally said "The way you yelled at me the other day sent me to a place I never want to go again. This relationship isn't good for me."

She recognized that she was falling back into old behaviors. Barry yelled, she  apologized. She bought a special dinner, a new game controller. She broke up with Barry based on her behavior as much as his.

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

Given what' Bill's said about the veil lifting (from downthread) I wonder if there's two parts to this. Katie's observation that she's with a violent guy has lead her to worry about that perception, and as a she's so closely associated with what she now believes is going to be a big hit show dealing with domestic violence, she's more concerned about the perception than really coming to terms with her own reality. Sally's motivations have long been about perception, hence the modifying her showcase to what would stand-out more. Though she did seem to put two and two together about quality vs perception with the kick-ass women show.

I am so ready for a gag where the broader public tunes into the show thinking its going to be Janis Joplin biopic and fleeing quickly.

Everything around the Detonate App was sooooo good. I have to believe Hank's not that dumb (not the app makers) and he was just making fun of apps himself, but you can never be so sure. The customer support was so excellent though. What a clever satire of modern capitalism.

 

1 hour ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Sally said "The way you yelled at me the other day sent me to a place I never want to go again. This relationship isn't good for me."

She recognized that she was falling back into old behaviors. Barry yelled, she  apologized. She bought a special dinner, a new game controller. She broke up with Barry based on her behavior as much as his.

That's a good point, she has to think about her public image.  It wouldn't look good if the start and show runner of an acclaimed show about domestic abuse was herself in a relationship which could turn into domestic abuse.

Katie is right about Barry but it's hard to believe someone so young would have insight about violent men, unless she's had first-hand experience or maybe she witnessed someone close to her being subject to something similar.

Sally may have arrived at the right decision about Barry but maybe it's not purely a sign of emotional growth.  Maybe she did a calculation about having to protect her public image.  But then typically stars (or budding stars) would talk to managers, agents and maybe a publicist or PR expert?

Still it's hard to believe they're completely over.  If Sally cuts off ties to Barry and she sticks to it, then why would she need to have as much screen time on a show mainly about Barry?

The plot about her show is rife with comic possibilities, like people watching Pam! rather than Sally's show, despite the RT scores.  Or they think it's about something else.  But if they run this story line in parallel with what's going on with Barry and they do go for comedy, it would feel odd to have comic scenes about the TV business at the same time you have an increasingly dark trajectory for Barry himself.

[sistermagpie]

23 minutes ago, aghst said:

Katie is right about Barry but it's hard to believe someone so young would have insight about violent men, unless she's had first-hand experience or maybe she witnessed someone close to her being subject to something similar.

It could be the opposite--as a kid who's never had any experience with violent people, she wasn't prepared to brush it off like everyone else. I mean, even the writer agreed with her that it was terrible--but she liked her job so didn't want to tell Sally she didn't like her boyfriend. Katie was naive enough to come at it with total innocence and it cut through any instinctive defensiveness Sally might have gone into with someone else.

23 minutes ago, aghst said:

Still it's hard to believe they're completely over.  If Sally cuts off ties to Barry and she sticks to it, then why would she need to have as much screen time on a show mainly about Barry?

Yeah, I feel like whether or not Sally wants to be in a relationship with Barry, she's going to go to him for help if she needs it. And she might very soon. 

[grandmabegum]

I definitely think Gish and her son are going after Barry. They have his address, they don't have Fuches's.

Of course, because Sally broke up with Barry and told him to move out he won't be there. So it'll be interesting to see what happens when Sally answers the door. Do they just ask if he's home and leave? Do they tell Sally what Fuches told them? Do they threaten Sally? Do they kidnap Sally to get Barry to come to them? Does Sally think Barry sent them? Time will tell, but it obviously is not going to end well for these dumb dumbs who want to kill a professional hitman.

Edited May 18, 2022 by grandmabegum

[Blakeston]

I think the writers thought it would be fun to explore what would happen if Sally finally achieved fame and critical acclaim - and didn't concern themselves much with whether it's a realistic career development, or whether it would make sense for Sally (and Natalie) to be talented enough to pull it off.

There are ways for us to fanwank it, like assuming that Joplin's production and writing staff have turned Sally and Natalie's work into something brilliant. Or that the show isn't really that good, but critics are going easy on it because the subject matter is so important. But the writers of Barry haven't indicated that, so it's all just a guessing game.

I have to agree with the prediction that Pam! will probably end up being much more popular with the American public. 

[tennisgurl]

I think the biggest ask this show has made of me yet is to accept that Sally could make a show that gets a 98% on Rotten Tomatoes. Sally isn't totally lacking in talent, but she has always come across as pretty mediocre to me and her show feels like it isn't anything special in the few scenes we have seen. Of course, I've seen plenty of shows that critics raved about that I thought were just a check list of prestige TV clichés, so maybe this show really would be rolling in praise. 

Having it laid out for her must have made Sally realize that she needs to dump Barry which was absolutely the great call. You could say its not even about Barry, its about how Sally saw herself falling into old patterns, blaming herself whenever her boyfriend was mad about anything, trying to placate him, she was slipping back there and she knew that was a bad place to go. 

Sally dumping Barry was the right thing to do, but Barry will probably end up in even more of a free fall after this. Or maybe not, he did end up finally seeming to realize that Gene will never want anything to do with him and just gave him money and left, its probably the most clear headed he's felt all season and the most he's felt connected with his last strands of decency. 

If some random weirdo showed up at my house saying they knew who murdered my husband/dad and they just left his address, I would probably not be so quick to take him at his word. 

"This is racist! Just because Tony Danza's Italian doesn't mean he's in the mob!" I really need some flashbacks to Gene pissing off every single person in Hollywood. 

[grandmabegum]

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I think the biggest ask this show has made of me yet is to accept that Sally could make a show that gets a 98% on Rotten Tomatoes.

I sort of want an opening scene of Sally going on Rotten Tomatoes and seeing that the critics reviews are mixed but they told Sally the audience review numbers and it's so high because the only ones who watched it were her family and friends (though I think this is before it aired to the public, so there would only be critic reviews]. Look, I just want a misunderstanding and hijinx to ensue!

[Lone Wolf]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:20 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The more I hear about Gene's history, the more I kind of want to see some flashbacks!  Apparently had some kind of beef with Joe Mantegna that a restraining order was put out?  Accused Tony Danza of being in the mafia or something (I'm assuming that's what his agent meant when she said that was racist)?!  Man, Gene was crazy back in the day! 

Jumping over that shark...on water skis....in a bathing suit and motorcycle jacket...

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"This is racist! Just because Tony Danza's Italian doesn't mean he's in the mob!" I really need some flashbacks to Gene pissing off every single person in Hollywood. 

I truly think this is an inside joke - from everything I've ever read or heard about him, Winkler is known to everyone in the industry as being the sweetest guy in show business.

[arc]

"gets like a 1.6 in the demo" LMAO That is an incredible joke.

I am enjoying the way they're telling us about Gene's past shitty behaviour. The twist that everyone saw coming, not so much.

Fuches is incredibly evil here, trying to get some consequences for all of Barry's hitman work -- hitman work that he arranged. But speaking of which, it actually doesn't make sense that the inciting incident for the show was that Chechen gangsters reached out to an American contract hitman. I forget the details, did Goran outsource because he didn't want details known among the gang?

I do think some of Barry's former victims' families should have gotten unimpeachable proof Barry was the murderer before setting out to kill him themselves.

Barry's lucky that Detonate app UI isn't in Chechen or Russian. And that there's a dedicated support line.

Gene's agent must really love him. Or else just have nothing else going on, because continuing to rep a guy who's been uncastable for decades seems unlikely to me. Even if we buy that he hasn't bothered putting Gene's name out lately and Gene hasn't bothered him, why not drop him?